RE: [css-d] help centering my menu

[Peter Williams]

> From: Patrick Roane
> 
> I just need a quick tip on how I can center my menu:
> see www.cpcconstruction.net/1/index.html

Patrick,

You've got a few markup errors that won't be helping your
troubleshooting.
Run the page past the w3c validator and clean up the errors it shows
you.
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.cpcconstruction
.net/1/index.html

Your menu should center for you in FF using the margin: 0 auto;
declaration
if you apply it to the right element. Your UL could be goiven a class or
ID
to facilitate that.

  for example.

You'll need to take care of older IE and quirks mode IE as well though,
which is probably where you are seeing the non-centered menu at present.

You could use text-align: center; on the container div, "info",
then set a compensating text-align: left on child elements that aren't
intended to have centred text, (IE 5 centers all block level elements
in response to text-align: center; .

Using that in combination with the margin: 0 auto; should have your menu
list centered in all the recent browsers.  I didn't test this using your
markup, but it should get you on the right track.

-- 
Peter Williams
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[css-d] help centering my menu

[Patrick Roane]

Hey folks,

I just need a quick tip on how I can center my menu:

see www.cpcconstruction.net/1/index.html

-
BTW: for those of you who gave me suggestions on using
a good logo software (I posted this question about 1
month ago)- I went with Inkscape which I used to
design the logo for the site above.



I've tried: 

#info li {display:block; float:center;}

instead of float: left; (which it is now), but that
disrupts the flow and puts it in vertical instead of
horiz.

I've also tried display:inline margin-left: auto;
margin-right: auto;

But that throws everything into vertical as well.

Thanks a lot.
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Re: [css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC

[Arlen Walker]

On Oct 17, 2005, at 8:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

\IE for MAC is a AWFUL browser. And  therefore is no longer being  
developed.


Just a factual correction: IE/Mac is an "awful" browser because it is  
no longer being developed.


The cynical side of me says the IE/Mac team paid the price for  
outshining their Windows brethren; at the time IE/Mac was  
discontinued, it was very nearly the most standards compliant browser  
on the market. It put IE5.x/Win to shame and in many ways outdid IE6.


Sometimes mentally-challenged web developers force Mac users to use  
IE, because they browser sniff and exclude all but IE, intentionally  
or because they do browser sniffing badly. So mac users have to keep  
it around, and so they use it, because it's easier to keep using it  
than to keep track of what sites mistreat Safari and what sites don't.


Heck, it wasn't until v2 shipped that I started using Safari for a  
lot of surfing. Until then the bugs in it made me prefer IE5.2 to it.


About 3% of users are MAC and out of there only a fraction wil use  
IE (does anyone have an actual % of IE for MAC users).


As always, these stats are extremely site-dependent, and pretty much  
meaningless; they're measuring a slef-selected sample, after all. If  
a site gives the user of a particular browser a bad experience, those  
users don't show up again. So quoting stats is a pretty futile endeavor.


Since it generally doesn't take much effort make a site appear  
decently on MacIE5.2, I'd probably include them (I generally do in  
the sites I build, anyway).


Why would you when you have Safari?? I would make a text only  
version for these fools.


That'd sure make the problem go away. You wouldn't have to worry  
about making a site look good for them, because they wouldn't visit  
your site anymore. Probably even after they switched browsers at a  
later time. (Users tend to develop habits like that, I've noticed.  
Treat them badly once, and there's so much out there that they never  
really manage to get around to giving you a second chance. It's not  
that they hate you, they just don't care enough to make the time.)


As for Pascal's original problem, I'd suggest he try using  
"overflow:auto;" and see what happens. After all, Firefix didn't add  
support for this until v1.8, so it's highly unlikely IEMac has it.  
They tended to build according to the specs, and that property wasn't  
in the specs back then.



Have Fun,
Arlen

--
In God we trust, all others must supply data

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Re: [css-d] Site Check - chispaconsulting.com

[Felix Miata]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
> Site: http://www.chispaconsulting.com
> CSS: http://www.chispaconsulting.com/mjc.css

You've sized all your text in px, which frustrates IE users who need to
be able to see it at the size they prefer, but cannot due to IE's
unfriendliness in this regard. Because of a defect in your font-size
rule for p, p text is the visitor's preference size, and thus the only
text on the page I can comfortably read without zooming. Please pay a
visit to http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html and
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=UsingFontSize.
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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Re: [css-d] IE7 > Quirks Mode?

[Thierry Koblentz]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> That's good news in case a SGML comment puts IE7 into Quirks Mode as
>>  it does with IE6 (I know some people do that on purpose ;).
>
> No... who could do such a thing :-)
>
> I've always put IE6 in 'quirks mode' by consciously ignoring the
> advices given by W3C[1]. Good thing they added some choices[2].

And sometimes, it's the ultimate fix.
2 weeks ago, the only way for me to fix some painting bug in IE6 (kind of
the guillotine bug) was to include the XML prolog.

> Now we may just as well prepare to "hack" some garbage into the back
> door of IE7. 'Conditional comments' and a prepared stylesheet should
> come handy ;-)
> 
> 
> ...IE8...IE9...IE10...?

It looks like it
;)

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[Derek de Jong]

I'm trying to create a drop-shadow around a div.
I want to put text in an inner div, but I can only get
the shadow to show around the outside of the inner div
if there's an image present.

How can I change this code to create the shadow around
the inner div without the image?  Is it possible?

My understanding was that the 'filter' is proprietary to Internet 
Explorer, and not part of the W3C CSS spec 
(http://www.websitedev.de/css/validator-faq, see "Why don't my [...] 
filters [...] validate?"). Is there any way to apply a dropshadow in a 
spec-compliant fashion? Not with the same ease, but it's certainly possible.


Here is a fantastic ALA article that uses images 
(http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin) instead. Between the 
cssPlay example that David mentioned and this one, you should be 
droppin' shadows in no time.


Regards,
Derek
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Re: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[Kelly Miller]

There are a number of ways of doing shadows in CSS.  The one you're 
asking about uses two divs; the out is the shadow and the in is the main 
div.  The code simply makes the out div offset to the right & bottom and 
colours the background black (with a grey border, so it appears to blur).


Personally, I use a combination of a group of translucent PNG's and the 
shadow filter (to make up for IE's lack of PNG support) to do drop 
shadows on objects, 
http://crystalsanctuary.rpgsource.net/designs/msf/final/images-imagelist.htm#jumpmenu


Rick Faircloth wrote:


I checked out another of the demos on the cssplay site
and found this code, but I can't see what is creating the
shadow...in the other code I tried, filter:shadow was used,
but what in the code below creates the shadow?
 




--
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ - Get Firefox!
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ - Reclaim Your Inbox!

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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Re: [css-d] IE7 > Quirks Mode?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:


IE7 will act as IE6 (more or less) - in quirks mode. 




That's good news in case a SGML comment puts IE7 into Quirks Mode as
 it does with IE6 (I know some people do that on purpose ;).


No... who could do such a thing :-)

I've always put IE6 in 'quirks mode' by consciously ignoring the advices
given by W3C[1]. Good thing they added some choices[2].

It'll probably pay off when IE7 arrives in numbers, as it should render
my pages perfectly well in 'standard mode'. Of course, it remains to be
seen if IE7 is any good in 'standard mode' - IE6 certainly isn't.

Now we may just as well prepare to "hack" some garbage into the back
door of IE7. 'Conditional comments' and a prepared stylesheet should
come handy ;-)



...IE8...IE9...IE10...?
:-)

regards
Georg

[1] http://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/
[2]
http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/tutorial-char-enc/en/slides/Slide0210.html
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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RE: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[Rick Faircloth]

I checked out another of the demos on the cssplay site
and found this code, but I can't see what is creating the
shadow...in the other code I tried, filter:shadow was used,
but what in the code below creates the shadow?

Rick

.out {
  display:block; 
  background:#bbb; 
  border:1px solid #ddd; 
  position:relative;
  margin:1em 0;
  }
  
.in {
  text-align:center; 
  background:#fff; 
  border:1px solid #555; 
  position:relative; 
  padding:5px;
  font-weight:normal;
  }
  
.ltin {
  left:-5px;
  }
  
.tpin {
  top:-5px;
  }
  
.narrow {width:8em;} /* change to suit */
h4 {font-weight:bold; color:#000;}



> -Original Message-
> From: David Laakso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 9:20 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: css-discuss
> Subject: Re: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a
> shadow around a div without the imageinside?
> 
> 


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Re: [css-d] Site Check

[Christian Montoya]

The font sizes for the lists are too small, they should be the same
size as the paragraphs.

The other thing that should be changed is the apple... it interferes
with the text. Probably the best option would be to add some padding
to the content div so the apple is always below the last line of text.
Or, you could lighten the picture of the apple so it's easier to read
over.

Otherwise it's a great site.

--
- C Montoya
rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com
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Re: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[Christian Montoya]

35 PX <-- you need units!

height:35px; width:35px;

--
- C Montoya
rdpdesign.com ... liquid.rdpdesign.com ... montoya.rdpdesign.com
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RE: [css-d] Site Check

[webmaster]

Hi Jenny,

I like the way your site looks. Clean looking and easy to navigate.

Since you were asking about conformance to web standards, you'll want to run
it by the w3c validator: http://validator.w3.org/  Your home page -- the
only one I ran -- throws 5 errors and a heap of warnings relatig to
character encoding. Only one of the errrors is a missing 'alt'.

Since the site has your clients CV on it, you should be aware that with
javascript disabled the information isn't available. I get the list of CV
areas, i.e., education, related experience, etc. but I'm not able to 'open'
it. This probably isn't what she (or you) intended :-|

All in all, the site's very nice, though.

Hth,
bill scheider


I'm still making small corrections on this site (need to add alt tags for
images), but would appreciate if you could take a spin through it and let me
know if everything else looks okay and adheres to Web Standards.

Thanks!
Jenny

Site: http://www.chispaconsulting.com
CSS: http://www.chispaconsulting.com/mjc.css
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Re: [css-d] Site Check

[Estelle Weyl]

Great looking site!  (checked Opera 8.5, Firefox and IE)

Two edits I would recommend:

indicate in the code that the spanish on the home page is spanish (lang="es" 
I think).

escape the > in the breadcrumbs: >

The other thing I don't know if you did on purpose or not: the list items in 
the content are smaller text than the paragraphs.


Congrats on the site.

-Estelle


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: [css-d] Site Check



Hello All,

I'm still making small corrections on this site (need to add alt tags for
images), but would appreciate if you could take a spin through it and let 
me

know if everything else looks okay and adheres to Web Standards.

Thanks!
Jenny

Site: http://www.chispaconsulting.com
CSS: http://www.chispaconsulting.com/mjc.css
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Re: [css-d] Site Check

[David Laakso]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello All,

I'm still making small corrections on this site (need to add alt tags for
images), but would appreciate if you could take a spin through it and let me
know if everything else looks okay and adheres to Web Standards.

Thanks!
Jenny

Site: http://www.chispaconsulting.com
CSS: http://www.chispaconsulting.com/mjc.css
 


Nice clean, crisp site, Jenny. My comments have little to do with CSS:
I guess you know the drop shadow works in IE only. And such a chore in 
IE-- putting it in 'accessibility mode,' checking the 'ignore font-sizes 
specified on  this Web site.'  Use pixels for good browsers if you want. 
If that be the case, feed percent on the body and percent or em's for 
selectors to the 'evil one.' The js might best be called from an 
external file. Any particular reason you use XHTML1.1? Couple of 
CSS/markup errors you may want to clear up if you have time.

Best,
~dL

--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com

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Re: [css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[David Laakso]

Rick Faircloth wrote:


Any hints?  See code below..

Rick
 


I have no idea, but you show raw numbers for height and width?
If you are atttempting a drop shadow created with CSS for a division, 
you might check this:





 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Faircloth
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:24 PM
To: css-discuss
Subject: [css-d] How can I create a shadow around a div without the
imageinside?



I'm trying to create a drop-shadow around a div.
I want to put text in an inner div, but I can only get
the shadow to show around the outside of the inner div
if there's an image present.

How can I change this code to create the shadow around
the inner div without the image?  Is it possible?

Here's the code:







Thanks!

Rick


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--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com

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[css-d] line in nav

[Neal Watkins]

http://gizmoproject.com/775/

Hello all --per above url

see the darker blue line under the nav - -anybody see how to get rid of it-- the
hover works fine - - - but the regular blue doesn't go to the bottom

thanks

Neal
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[css-d] Site Check

[jblake]

Hello All,

I'm still making small corrections on this site (need to add alt tags for
images), but would appreciate if you could take a spin through it and let me
know if everything else looks okay and adheres to Web Standards.

Thanks!
Jenny

Site: http://www.chispaconsulting.com
CSS: http://www.chispaconsulting.com/mjc.css
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Re: [css-d] IE margin problem?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Jim Ryan wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/jimcomx/1014_front.htm in IE6 win and see if
 they can figure out why the news and events boxes are being squished
 together? I think it has something to do w/ negative margins, but am
 not sure what.


Try adding:

#news {display: inline;}

...to avoid the margin-doubling bug in IE/win. Works on a copy at my end.

(also thought the ie7 javascript had fixed most Microsoft-specific 
browser issues.)


I took it out, and couldn't see any any difference :-)
Have never used it myself though.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Felix Miata]

Linda H wrote:
 
> > > http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/
 
> I have to scroll right and left to see the whole screen.

It's a fixed width design more than 800px wide:

#navmap {width: 344px}
#contentwrap{width: 350px}
#toprightimage  {width: 180px}
Total: 874px
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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[css-d] IE margin problem?

[Jim Ryan]

Would someone kindly look at:
http://www.geocities.com/jimcomx/1014_front.htm
in IE6 win and see if they can figure out why the news and events boxes are
being squished together? I think it has something to do w/ negative margins,
but am not sure what. (also thought the ie7 javascript had fixed most
Microsoft-specific browser issues.)

Thanks!
Jim




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Re: [css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC

[Jan Brasna]

Why would you when you have Safari?


OS 9 and lower ...

--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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[css-d] (Second Posting...anyone know?) How can I create a shadow around a div without the imageinside?

[Rick Faircloth]

Any hints?  See code below..

Rick


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Faircloth
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:24 PM
> To: css-discuss
> Subject: [css-d] How can I create a shadow around a div without the
> imageinside?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to create a drop-shadow around a div.
> I want to put text in an inner div, but I can only get
> the shadow to show around the outside of the inner div
> if there's an image present.
> 
> How can I change this code to create the shadow around
> the inner div without the image?  Is it possible?
> 
> Here's the code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
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Re: [css-d] Limitations of XHTML-CSS in eBay Listings

[fokuss]

I have not placed an auction for some time now, but previosly you would 
be given the option to simply cut and paste your code in and it woudl 
generate the page. I would imagine you could try an embedded style 
sheet and try a test auction. If it doesnt work to well I might rely on 
tables for layout and CSS for styling, similiar to what happens when 
creating an HTML email.


Adam

-Original Message-
From: css man <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:43:42 -0400
Subject: [css-d] Limitations of XHTML-CSS in eBay Listings

 Can anyone point me to a resource or explain the limitations of using
XHTML-CSS in eBay listings?

Is this even possible, or are sellers limited to using the crappy eBay 
HTML

editor?

Thanks
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[css-d] Limitations of XHTML-CSS in eBay Listings

[css man]

Can anyone point me to a resource or explain the limitations of using
XHTML-CSS in eBay listings?

Is this even possible, or are sellers limited to using the crappy eBay HTML
editor?

Thanks
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Re: [css-d] one template to rule them all

[Thierry Koblentz]

Flii wrote:
> @Chris:
>> Generic solutions are most of the time bloated.
> I know, and I'm hoping to make mine as not-bloated as possible while
> understanding full well I might not be able to do it.

Actually, your post inspired me to write an article about this.
I'm almost done, I'll post the link later today or tomorrow.
Same markup, different layouts (as you suggested), isn't what CSS is
supposed to deliver?
One of the layouts even shows that it is not necessary to pollute the markup
to have NN4 "do" CSS-Positioning (fluid 3 column layout).

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] changing the distance between paragraphs

[Jim Davis]

Ross,

You can also set all  tags within a class or ID.

#content {...}
#content p { padding: .5em 1em; ...}

This will set the rules for any  that is contained in the #content
div, thus saving having to add a class name to every  within the
div.

Jim

On 10/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can I set up custom paragraph heights that do not effect the normal  tag?
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Re: [css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Linda H]

> http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/


I have to scroll right and left to see the whole screen.

Linda H 


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Re: [css-d] IE7 > Quirks Mode?

[Thierry Koblentz]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> Does a comment above the DTD Declaration will throw IE7 into Quirks
>> Mode as it does with IE6?
>
> Don't know about 'comment', but the  declaration won't work as a
> switch anymore.
> 

Thanks Georg,
I'd read this entry. Actually, the *first* comment on this page is about the
same issue:
"... a SGML comment will also trigger quirks mode if included before the
DOCTYPE. Is this fixed too?"
But, AFAIK, nobody answered this...

>> If yes, does it mean that IE7 in Quirks Mode will act as IE6 or
>> should we be prepared to use more Conditional Comments with IE7 in
>> Quirks Mode?
>
> IE7 will act as IE6 (more or less) - in quirks mode.
> 

That's good news in case a SGML comment puts IE7 into Quirks Mode as it does
with IE6 (I know some people do that on purpose ;).

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] changing the distance between paragraphs

[Larry Israel]

> Can I set up custom paragraph heights that do not effect the normal  tag?
>
> first paragraph
> 

You can't make up HTML tags. You have to use only the HTML tags that are
defined in the HTML language itself. (Even XHTML is not really extensible
in common usage.)

You can make up classes or IDs -- class or id attributes to HTML elements.

Class:

Some text

p.first {...}

Or id:


Heading
Some text


#sidebar p {...}

(Class "first" and id "sidebar" are examples. You can name your classes
and ids however you choose.)

Larry
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Re: [css-d] changing the distance between paragraphs

[Akins, Chris]

Sure - just make something like either .p1, .p2, etc.  classes or #p1, #p2,
etc. id's and write your CSS for each class or id that you want to only
apply to that rule.

Then apply like:

some text
normal paragraph with no special rules
some text with different rules than the other 2 paragraphs

As you can see in my example above, you should probably use names for your
classes or id's that have better meaning than my quick example.  'Cause
above, my "p2" class is really the third paragraph on the page.  This could
cause confusion.  So name them something better than that.


Christopher Akins
Web Coordinator
Public Information Office - City of Springfield, MO
www.springfieldmogov.org
417-864-1118

"Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time." - Steven Wright



On 10/17/05 10:35 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can I set up custom paragraph heights that do not effect the normal  tag?
> 
> first paragraph
> 
> 
> the next paragrap
> 
> thanks,
> 
> R.
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RE: [css-d] one template to rule them all

[Flii]

@Chris:
> Generic solutions are most of the time bloated.
I know, and I'm hoping to make mine as not-bloated as possible while 
understanding full well I might not be able to do it.

> The content defines the structure, not the other way around.
Fortunately most of their information is all going to be the same, since we 
only deal with one type of company.  Otherwise there's nothing I can do about 
it unfortunately.

> I did this for a colleague once, maybe it is a good start:
I'll take a look!  Thank you.


@Dave:
> It's not quite what you are looking for but you could use it as a 
> start or you could make yer own from the idea.
I'm trying to find examples of any other site or any examples that keep the 
same source order and html but are still able to move things around like the 
(pretty ugly) example pictures I created.  I will definitely dig into your 
version of skidoo, and thanks for posting the link for me.  :)


@C Montoya:
> This is totally possible, using a combination of floats and absolute 
> position for the various divs.
Unfortunately I'm still new enough to CSS that I don't grasp all the subtle 
"how it *really* works" that many of you seem to intuitively know.  Everything 
I've learned about CSS says I should be able to do this.  Where I falter is 
"how".

> You could even do it without any wrapper divs, just the five divs in 
> the pictures.
That's exactly what I'm trying to do, because extra wrappers constrain any 
other layout the company might want.  On the other hand, they make one layout 
much nicer and easier to style.  Which is better?  :-/  Give our companies one 
really nice layout that they're stuck with, or try to give as much 
customization as possible with their own web team?


@Thierry:
> If you go for fluid layouts with all widths in "%" I think you could 
> make it work with the elements flowing the way you have them.
Percents as layout might be a problem, since no matter what I do, ASP.NET will 
be spitting out tables at me, and I don't know how they will react if the 
columns are resized too small while the font size stays the same.  That being 
said, maybe I can fudge some min-width in IE to take care of it.

> As a side note, I would not go with a solution that relies on 
> "position:absolute"
To be honest, I don't even know how.  I'm getting better at floats, but 
absolutes escape me.


@CSS-D
Ok then, I'm off to start my Monday with some renewed hope, some examples, and 
maybe I'll even find inspiration along the way.  Thank you very much for your 
replies.  :)

If a new thought strikes anyone, I'm (as always) open ears.
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[css-d] changing the distance between paragraphs

[ross]

Can I set up custom paragraph heights that do not effect the normal  tag? 

first paragraph


the next paragrap

thanks,

R.
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Re: [css-d] Font choices in css

[Prabhath Sirisena]

On 10/17/05, Tony Balazs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have based my css on some sheets I found online and have done my
> best to incorporate advice gratefully received from this site.
>
> In the body {   I have verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
>
> Thing is, I don't understand why the choice is there.  Is the user's
> browser meant to choose between them according to its settings?  Are
> they in order of preference?

When there's a list of fonts, the browser uses the "cascade" (i.e.,
the fonts that are specified later act as fallbacks in the absence of
a one specified earlier).

For example, in this instance, if the user's system doesn't have
verdana installed, but has arial, the browser will use arial. If none
of verdana, arial or helvetica is there, the default sans-serif font
of the system will be used.

cheers,
Prabhath
http://nidahas.com
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Re: [css-d] Font choices in css

[Christian Heilmann]

> I have based my css on some sheets I found online and have done my
> best to incorporate advice gratefully received from this site.
>
> In the body {   I have verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
>
> Thing is, I don't understand why the choice is there.  Is the user's
> browser meant to choose between them according to its settings?  Are
> they in order of preference?

Availability. If Verdana is there, take Verdana, if not, then Arial
and so on until you get to the generic sans-serif - which can be any
sans-serif font.


--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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[css-d] Font choices in css

[Tony Balazs]

I have based my css on some sheets I found online and have done my  
best to incorporate advice gratefully received from this site.


In the body {   I have verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;

Thing is, I don't understand why the choice is there.  Is the user's  
browser meant to choose between them according to its settings?  Are  
they in order of preference?


Hoping someone can enlighten me
Tony.
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Re: [css-d] IE7 > Quirks Mode?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:

Does a comment above the DTD Declaration will throw IE7 into Quirks
Mode as it does with IE6?


Don't know about 'comment', but the  declaration won't work as a
switch anymore.



If yes, does it mean that IE7 in Quirks Mode will act as IE6 or
should we be prepared to use more Conditional Comments with IE7 in
Quirks Mode?


IE7 will act as IE6 (more or less) - in quirks mode.


regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Jumping image on ie.

[xavier dutoit]

Hello to all,

Let me share with you a problem I have with a list of (logo+title+lead
in+link to the complete article) on my homepage.

Problem:

That's an internet explorer only problem (ie. it displays fine on
safari, konqueror, firefox and opera).

When I load the page http://www.ilga-europe.org the first time on IE
6, it displays fine (the list is the "Latest news" in the middle
column).

The second time I display the page (eg. If I clic on the top left
corner logo to reload the page -simply refreshing the page doesn't
seem to be trig the problem-),
some of the logos in the list jumps to the right and cover the lead
in, like if they forgot the negative left-margin.

To see the effect, you might or might not have to display the homepage
several time. Also it *seems* that the images have an influence, as
some logos seems to jump and some don't (not that convinced myself, I
haven't been able to find a pattern).


The xhtml:

xhtml 1.1 strict valid.

The round shape on the image is a mask (image with a transparent round
in the middle and opaque for the rest).


...


   
  
   


12/10/2005
Title

   Lead in to the article
   read more...
   
 





The css:

I know that the css doesn't validate and before you beat me, let me
tell you that the main reason for that is to handle the png
transparency.


.logo{float: left;margin:10px 0 10px 10px;}
.logo {background:50% 50% no-repeat;}

.left_column .content-view-line .logo {width:84px;height:79px;}

.left_column .content-view-line .second_column {margin-left:20px;}

html>body .left_column .content-view-line .logo {float:left;margin-left:-40px;}
/* for everyone but ie */

.homepage .logo {margin:0;position:relative;left:0px;top:0;padding:0}
.homepage .logo a {display:inline;margin:0;padding:0;}

.mask {background: url('../images/mask.png') no-repeat 50%
50%;width:84px;height:79px;margin:0;padd
ing:0;}

* html .mask {
background-image:none;
filter:progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.AlphaImageLoader(src='/design/ilgaeurope/images/mask.png',
 sizingMethod='crop');
}

* html .homepage .logo {margin-left:-43px;}
/* for ie */

I use a png for the mask to have a smooth edge on the round border.
The * html .mask filter:progid is to allow ie to render it properly.

This jumping behavior is new to me, I've tried the tricks I know to
fix ie bugs (eg: put a position:relative;height:1%...) without any
success.

I've spent quite a few time on this problem, but now I'm stuck, and
I'm clueless.

Have you experienced such behavior ? Could you suggest me tests or
simplification to help me to understand what is the problem ?

Any help more that welcome !

Xavier
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[css-d] IE7 > Quirks Mode?

[Thierry Koblentz]

Does a comment above the DTD Declaration will throw IE7 into Quirks Mode as
it does with IE6?
If yes, does it mean that IE7 in Quirks Mode will act as IE6 or should we be
prepared to use more Conditional Comments with IE7 in Quirks Mode?

Thanks,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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Re: [css-d] support old browsers - Was: scrollbars in div on MAC

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

IE for MAC is a AWFUL browser. And  therefore is no longer being 
developed.


Correction: IE/Mac is an awful browser today, BECAUSE it's no longer
being developed - not the other way around.

Based on what it was when they pulled the plug: if IE/Mac had been
developed a bit further, then it might well have been in the forefront
today. So much for facts.


About 3% of users are MAC and out of there only a fraction wil use IE
 (does anyone have an actual % of IE for MAC users). Why would you 
when you have Safari?? I would make a text only version for these 
fools.


Generally; I don't like being called a fool :-) (but of course; I can
switch to whatever I like, when I like).
Don't think other IE/Mac users would like to be called "fools" either,
if they are in such a position that they cannot make Safari work on
their OS.

Statistics are useful at times, but unless you know _exactly_ what
percentage would use each OS/browser on a specific site *if* they had a
choice, such statistics will only show what's being used by visitors
*after* you have shown the unsupported ones that the site isn't working
for them.
That's how statistics "prove" itself and becomes _completely useless_.


I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this


A 'non-CSS' or 'limited-CSS' display would do fine in many cases. That
goes for all old browsers/versions.

Since old IE/Mac is doing surprisingly well when compared to other old
browsers (since it had superior CSS-support for its time), it is often
possible to give IE/Mac a quite good-looking version too. It doesn't
have to be the same as other browsers get, in order to be alright.

If for nothing else; it doesn't hurt to practice a bit on obscure
browsers, just so you know what they're capable of and what not.

The bottom line would IMO be to do what you can regarding support for
old, somewhat capable, browsers, as long as it doesn't mean degrading
sites/designs for the new browsers/versions - regardless of OS and
statistics.

Ref: 

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Horizontal scrollbars in gecko browsers

[Aaron Ullom]

Does anyone know why the following code makes Firefox, Netscape, and Mozilla
display the horizontal scroll bar? IE doesn't seem to have a problem with
it.

Changes that will make the horizontal scroll bar disappear.
- any body margin other than 0
- removing the width of the .LeftColumnNav and .RightColumn selectors
- removing the font-size of the .LeftColumnNav and .RightColumn selectors
- removing the width of the .LeftColumnNav and .RightColumn selectors and
adding a width to the .CenterColumn selector
- removing the cellspacing or cellpadding from the outer table

View the page here:
http://www.fgcu.edu/test/drafts/reddotsample/templateat2/_PGM.asp.
The completed page will look something like this:
http://www.fgcu.edu/test/drafts/reddotsample/templateat2/PGM.asp.



http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";>


 
 
 PGM Home
 
 body{
 margin: 0;
 }

 .LeftColumnNav{
 font-size: 85%;
 width: 13em;
 background-color: #FF;
 }

 .CenterColumn{
 background-color: #FF;
 }

 .RightColumn{
 font-size: 85%;
 width: 14em;
 background-color: #00FF00;
 }
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
  
 
 
 
 
 
 

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[css-d] page check: http://www.derekholstein.com/ColeBailey_site/index.htm

[Stuart King]

 am starting a site and want to make sure the css is correct

Questions / Problems:

1. In Safari the footer is slightly positioned to the left. . . In
firefox (mac) the footer is positioned justified to left instead of
being centered.

2. In IE pc the top of the h1 text "COLE BAILEY" is cut off.

3. In setting up the page, did I set up the sections correctly (body,
holder, nav, content, footer)?

4. Are there any suggestions, especially in placing text inside divs.

http://www.derekholstein.com/ColeBailey_site/index.htm
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[css-d] expanding sides

[Stuart King]

 I am trying to build a page where the page itself is a fixed width,
centered on the browser, but the side background expands to the width
of the browser. I posted a sample, wanting the purple background on
each side of the vertical light green line to expand the width of the
browser. I did suceed with making a vertical background bar. However,
I would like to have the length, vary with the content and not be
restricted to a fixed length.

Thank you.

http://www.derekholstein.com/expSides.htm
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Re: [css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC

[ross]

I had this problem before with iframes and divs never resolved it but the 
conclusion I came to is.


IE for MAC is a AWFUL browser. And  therefore is no longer being developed.

http://news.com.com/2100-1045_3-1017126.html

About 3% of users are MAC and out of there only a fraction wil use IE (does 
anyone have an actual % of IE for MAC users). Why would you when you have 
Safari?? I would make a text only version for these fools.


I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this

R.




- Original Message - 
From: "Pascal Heyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: [css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC




Hi,

We have following problem on Mac with IE5.2 for Mac.
In following HTML, no scrollbar is shown.

...


 
   
 
   
 
   
 
   
   
   
 
Download
   
   

  Add To My
Images
   
 
   
   <...some more simular cells...>
 
 <...some more rows...>

   
 
   
 




scrollbarclass =

.scrollbarclass
 {
   scrollbar-base-color:#CC;
   scrollbar-arrow-color:#CC;
   scrollbar-3dlight-color:#CC;
   scrollbar-darkshadow-color:#CC;
   scrollbar-highlight-color:white;
   scrollbar-face-color:white;
   SCROLLBAR-TRACK-COLOR: white;
 }

On a Windows system, with IE, everything works fine.

Anyone has any idea what's the problem?


Kind regards!


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Re: [css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC

[David Dorward]

On 17/10/05, Pascal Heyman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have following problem on Mac with IE5.2 for Mac.
> In following HTML, no scrollbar is shown.

>  bgcolor="#FF">

Well that's invalid HTML for a start.

> 

Does IE/Mac support the non-standard overflow-y property? It was a
proprietry extension in IE/Win and I believe its proposed for CSS 3,
but IE/Mac has been an unsupported browser for some time now.

I'd also wonder about the effects of height: some% collapsing back to
auto in those circumstances.

--
David Dorward 
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Re: [css-d] sub classes

[David Dorward]

On 17/10/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> now I want to set up a sub class

I've rather extensively snipping your query as I'm now clear what you
are actually trying to say. In an attempt to answer you I'm going to
list a few possible options that might be applicable depending on what
you mean.

In OOP terminology (which is not something that should be appled to
CSS, a class in HTML (and thus a class selector in CSS) refer to the
more general meaning of the term "class" - "a collection of things
sharing a common attribute") - a subclass is a class that inherits
many features from another class.

This can't be done in CSS as CSS doesn't have classes. It has
selectors, including class selectors, that match elements in markup
documents.

http://dorward.me.uk/www/css/inheritance/ describes a couple of
techniques which allow you to achieve similar results in CSS to what
subclassing provides in OOP.

>.side_menu_aboutus myownclass

This is a class selector, a descendent selector, and a type selector
that means "Match an element  that is a descendent of any
element with class="side_menu_aboutus". So it would match:


  Foo
  this text here
  Bar


... but since there is no  element in HTML, you could only
use this in a different XML or SGML language that included such an
element.

If you had a . in front of "myownclass" then it would match an element
with class="myownclass" that descends from etc etc.

> Who are we
> Who are we

This looks like you are trying to use multiple classes on a single
element, which is described in the document I referenced earlier.

It also looks like rather poor markup and that an unordered list would
be more suitable then spans and hard line breaks.

--
David Dorward 
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Re: [css-d] Can't Get Background Colors to Show

[David Dorward]

On 17/10/05, Audiobooks Online, Larry Bohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I open the 3 column code
> (file:///c:/Bullet%20Proof%20Web%20Design/Bullet%20Proof%20Web%20Design%20co
> de_20051015/bpwd-code/chapter8/3col.html)

I don't appear to have that file on my C: drive ... or a C drive at
all for that matter :)

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[css-d] scrollbars in div on MAC

[Pascal Heyman]

Hi,

We have following problem on Mac with IE5.2 for Mac.
In following HTML, no scrollbar is shown.

...


  

  

  

  



  
Download



   Add To My
Images

  

<...some more simular cells...>
  
  <...some more rows...>


  

  




scrollbarclass =

.scrollbarclass
  {
scrollbar-base-color:#CC;
scrollbar-arrow-color:#CC;
scrollbar-3dlight-color:#CC;
scrollbar-darkshadow-color:#CC;
scrollbar-highlight-color:white;
scrollbar-face-color:white;
SCROLLBAR-TRACK-COLOR: white;
  }

On a Windows system, with IE, everything works fine.

Anyone has any idea what's the problem?


Kind regards!


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Re: [css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Michael Wilson]

Christian Heilmann wrote:

http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/



Decided to knock another one out tonight, well at least get started on
it. This one is really basic right now, just a nav bar content section,
and a couple of absolute positioned images. no links work, just the
front page right now.



Any comments would be helpful,



CSS image maps might be sexy, but turn off images in your browser as a
test and you cannot use the page at all any longer.


Hi,

I agree, the map looks nice (although it took me a second to realize it 
was the navigation--maybe not so intuitive), but with images off, I 
can't use the page. I can use it just fine with CSS disabled or CSS and 
images disabled.


I also found the italicized text a little difficult to read. It may be 
because of the volume of content or the ipsum-filler--I don't know, but 
whatever the reason, the lines keep blurring on me.


Other than this, the page worked well for me.

HTH

--
Best regards,
Michael Wilson

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[css-d] Re: sub classes

[ross]

I have a class

.side_menu_aboutus{
 color:#66;
 font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
 height: 10px;
 font-size: small;
 font-weight: normal;
 
}

When I want to show we are on the home page in the menu (bolder type & black) I 
use another class

.selected {
 color: #00;
 font-weight: 500;
}
Who are we


I want to make this into one class with the selected a sub class.


Thanks

R.
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Re: [css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Felix Miata]

Sam Leathers wrote:
 
> http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/

Same problem as on http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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Re: [css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[Felix Miata]

Sam Leathers wrote:
 
> Christian Heilmann wrote:

> >>>The site for the new page is http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php

> >>I think it looks very nice, but I can't resize the font. As it is now (IE 
> >>6) the
> >>text is tiny and I can't read it at all. But other than that, it is 
> >>wonderful:o)

> > The initial text is painfully small on Firefox/windows:

> changed main font to 12px.

Now try to guess which of the following statements is most correct:

1-More than 50% of 1400x1050 or higher resolution IE users will
immediately use the back button upon reaching that page.

2-More than 50% of 1400x1050 or higher resolution IE users will use be
unable to read the content on that page.
 
3-More than 50% of 1400x1050 or higher resolution IE users will be
uncomfortable trying to read the content on that page.

4-More than 50% of 1400x1050 or higher resolution IE users will scream
"why do so many web pages use such tiny text"?

Here's what I see: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/markc1.png. Note that the
heading "Mark C. Reeves" is the only part of the page as large as the
browser UI text, which is smaller that the browser default text.

Please change:

.textblock {
font-size: 12px;
margin-left: 30px;

to:

.textblock {
margin-left: 30px;
-- 
"Be quick to listen, slow to speak."James 1:19 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/


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[css-d] Re: sub classes

[ross]

This may explain it better

I have a class
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[css-d] sub classes

[ross]

Hi,

I have a menu with the following rules

.side_menu_aboutus{
 color:#00;
 font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
 height: 10px;
 font-size: small;
 font-weight: normal;
 
}

now I want to set up a sub class of this but I do not want to make it a 
standard tag (H1, P etc) 

.side_menu_aboutus H1{

  font-weight: bold;
} 


Can I make custom  sub classes?

.side_menu_aboutus myownclass{

  font-weight: bold;
}

how would this Work in the html?

  Who are we
  Who are we


  This may not be explained very well...


  R.
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Re: [css-d] re:podt: Inconsistent flost behavior

[Ingo Chao]

Tanya Renne wrote:

... For
example in Firefox/PC the page often opens with only two columns in view
- refresh and the third column will come up to join the other two.



http://dev.orchidsuites.net



Tanya,

on a local copy of your page, all is well, but if I refer absolutely to 
the images of the table ("2nd column") on your site (ofc_inner.jpg, 
ofl_inner.jpg, 1789, ofa_inner.jpg), the "third column" is dropping in 
Firefox, as reported.


I tried different ways to isolate the bug on image-, td- and 
table-level, but no.


Without a better idea, I must ask what is the reason for this "display: 
table" of the main wrapper?


div#sitecontainer {... display:table;}

By removing display:table, the float drop seems to vanish at my end. 
Can't be the cause, but maybe a workaround?


Ingo

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Re: [css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

(http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php)

Sam Leathers wrote:

changed main font to 12px.


A question: " why? "


Also; there isn't enough info available for modern 'non-graphical'
browsers/users, which in modern terms mean that the page is not well
prepared for the web just yet.

To exemplify:
Lynx: 
Opera: 

Note: 'min-font-size = 14px' used in my Opera, and I don't think it'll
hurt the page if IE/win users are allowed to resize fonts to suit their
own preferences either.

Telling a Lynx-user to get Firefox may not be of much use. Maybe
rephrase that, and add some useful info and functionality for those who
cannot switch. After all; Lynx is a very modern 'text-browser' in every
respect, and used by many.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Christian Heilmann]

> http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/
>
> Decided to knock another one out tonight, well at least get started on
> it. This one is really basic right now, just a nav bar content section,
> and a couple of absolute positioned images. no links work, just the
> front page right now.
>
> Any comments would be helpful,

CSS image maps might be sexy, but turn off images in your browser as a
test and you cannot use the page at all any longer.
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Re: [css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[Sam Leathers]

changed main font to 12px.

Sam

Christian Heilmann wrote:
>>>The site for the new page is http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php
>>>
>>>The only thing I don't like about it is the left column news and contact
>>>info, but the person I'm building it for has stated he wants an image
>>>there rather than text for some reason he couldn't clarify. The navbars
>>>are background images with css "imagemaps" if you can call it that. The
>>>same with the photos on the bottom. Where I could, I added hidden
>>>attributes to describe things where I used images, like in the section
>>>headers. Also, the text in the contentarea grows as is seen in a number
>>>of the pages with dummy text.
>>>
>>>Any comments would be very helpful,
>>
>>I think it looks very nice, but I can't resize the font. As it is now
>>(IE 6) the
>>text is tiny and I can't read it at all.
>>But other than that, it is wonderful:o)
> 
> 
> The initial text is painfully small on Firefox/windows:
> 
> http://icant.co.uk/shots/marcwhat.gif
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> 

-- 
in life, direction is everything, distance is secondary--so keep your
bearings!

[KJV] Luke 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

Get Firefox!!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=13731&t=1
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[css-d] site check mepush.com/sandbox/village/

[Sam Leathers]

http://www.mepush.com/sandbox/village/

Decided to knock another one out tonight, well at least get started on
it. This one is really basic right now, just a nav bar content section,
and a couple of absolute positioned images. no links work, just the
front page right now.

Any comments would be helpful,

Sam
-- 
in life, direction is everything, distance is secondary--so keep your
bearings!

[KJV] Luke 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

Get Firefox!!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=13731&t=1
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Re: [css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[Christian Heilmann]

> > The site for the new page is http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php
> >
> > The only thing I don't like about it is the left column news and contact
> > info, but the person I'm building it for has stated he wants an image
> > there rather than text for some reason he couldn't clarify. The navbars
> > are background images with css "imagemaps" if you can call it that. The
> > same with the photos on the bottom. Where I could, I added hidden
> > attributes to describe things where I used images, like in the section
> > headers. Also, the text in the contentarea grows as is seen in a number
> > of the pages with dummy text.
> >
> > Any comments would be very helpful,
>
> I think it looks very nice, but I can't resize the font. As it is now
> (IE 6) the
> text is tiny and I can't read it at all.
> But other than that, it is wonderful:o)

The initial text is painfully small on Firefox/windows:

http://icant.co.uk/shots/marcwhat.gif
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Re: [css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[mette]

Quoting Sam Leathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


The site for the new page is http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php

The only thing I don't like about it is the left column news and contact
info, but the person I'm building it for has stated he wants an image
there rather than text for some reason he couldn't clarify. The navbars
are background images with css "imagemaps" if you can call it that. The
same with the photos on the bottom. Where I could, I added hidden
attributes to describe things where I used images, like in the section
headers. Also, the text in the contentarea grows as is seen in a number
of the pages with dummy text.

Any comments would be very helpful,


I think it looks very nice, but I can't resize the font. As it is now 
(IE 6) the

text is tiny and I can't read it at all.
But other than that, it is wonderful:o)

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[css-d] site check markcreeves.com

[Sam Leathers]

The site for the new page is http://www.markcreeves.com/newphp/index.php

The only thing I don't like about it is the left column news and contact
info, but the person I'm building it for has stated he wants an image
there rather than text for some reason he couldn't clarify. The navbars
are background images with css "imagemaps" if you can call it that. The
same with the photos on the bottom. Where I could, I added hidden
attributes to describe things where I used images, like in the section
headers. Also, the text in the contentarea grows as is seen in a number
of the pages with dummy text.

Any comments would be very helpful,

Sam
-- 
in life, direction is everything, distance is secondary--so keep your
bearings!

[KJV] Luke 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

Get Firefox!!!
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=13731&t=1
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