[css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread David Bailey
Hi,

I am having trouble with several things in IE with a site I'm working  
on and seek some advice. I'm still grappling with a few areas of css  
so the issues may be simple, but I just can't see them!

Please look at http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/index3.php.
Stylesheets:
http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/styles/layout.css
http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/styles/layout_ie.css
http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/CSSMenuWriter/cssmw/menu.css
http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/CSSMenuWriter/cssmw/menu_ie.css

I'm working on a Mac and also have a PC running XP and IE 6. I have  
run the site through browsershots.org and looks like I'm getting  
various results particularly in IE 7+ .

The issues I see are:

1. IE 6 and down to 5.0:
The layout renders basically the same as in Safari and FF (Mac) but  
the top horizontal (brown) navigation bar is supposed to have sub- 
menu dropdown items which aren't working. Any ideas what is causing  
this? I've had several attempts at fixing it, as you will see in the  
menu_ie.css stylesheet.

2. IE 7 on XP and FF on Win 2000
Have layout issues and drops the left hand background panel down the  
page. And renders the text in the top horizontal navigation bar in a  
dark colour!

3. IE 8
Has a few issues with not centering items in the left hand side  
panel, and also renders the text in the upper hor navbar in a dark  
colour.


Is there some obvious issues I'm not aware of here that can easily be  
addressed? I take it that it has something to do with hasLayout?

Any guidance, pointers, solutions would save me what's left of my hair!

Regards,
David


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[css-d] setting a div's width to container remaining available space

2009-05-21 Thread Ido dekkers
is there a way to make div2 below take the entire remaining space of
container if i don't know how wide div1 will be?

all of them are positioned relative and float to the left?


div id=container
  div id=div1
  /div
  div id=div2
  /div
/div

Thanks

Ido
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread Kevin Doyle
[snip]
I am having trouble with several things in IE with a site I'm working  
on and seek some advice. I'm still grappling with a few areas of css  
so the issues may be simple, but I just can't see them!
[/snip]

:

Hi Dave,

A couple suggestions for testing and general CSS development. First, download 
IE Tester -- it's a kick butt app for testing IE version 5.5 - 8. Then, 
download the Firebug plugin for Firefox -- it allows you to play around with 
the HTML and CSS right in your browser. 

As a general rule, I develop to Firefox and use conditional comments as IE CSS 
hacks to get things to display properly in IE. Conditional comment CSS hacks 
allow you to target specific versions of IE or all of them at once. Use IE 
Tester to see which versions aren't behaving, then use the IE hacks to target 
the problem areas. 

Just in case some of those links don't work in the message board, here are the 
links I referred to above:

- IE Tester download: http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage (it's 
in beta, so there are a couple bugs -- still ~totally~ worth downloading)
- Firebug plugin for FF: http://getfirebug.com/
- Conditional comment CSS IE hacks: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html

I hope that helps!

Kevin
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Re: [css-d] Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper

2009-05-21 Thread Stephen Tang
Hi Yukka,
Thanks for your reply. This looks interesting.  I didn't consider this
possiblity.  Bruno's implementation is much closer to what our users
were going for, but your technique could be an alternative, if I can
convince them.  The main problem is that our users would like whatever
font they choose to be shown to all visitors of their site, and that
pretty much pushes the implementation towards sIFR and similar
Flash-based techniques.

Thanks for your response as well.

--Stephen

-- Forwarded message --
From: Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi
To: CSS-D css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:41:57 +0300
Subject: Re: [css-d] Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper
Stephen Tang wrote:

I encountered a peculiar use case.  The business desires to display a
small amount of text as a handwritten font.  They want the handwritten
font sitting on blue lines.  This would simulate the effect of writing
in a notebook.


You could do something like this:

Markup:

p class=handwrittenspan class=content
the text
/span/p

CSS:

.handwritten {
 font-family: Monotype Corsiva, cursive;
 text-decoration: underline;
 background: white;
 color: blue;   }
.handwritten:first-line {
 text-decoration: underline overline; }
.handwritten .content {
 background: transparent;
 color: black; }

Omit the second rule if you just want the text to sit on blue lines,
instead of looking like written between blue lines.

Unfortunately there's no way to control the vertical placement of the
underline (and overline).

-- 
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread Quiller
I'd like to add my two cents to Kevin's suggestions. I've used IE Tester in
the past and found it to be convenient, but it isn't always a perfect
representation of how the various versions of IE will handle a particular
web site. This is especially true when dealing with advanced cookies or
Javascript.

Instead, I prefer to use the Virtual PC images made available by Microsoft.
The whole setup is free and provides an exact replication of different
environments from IE6/XP to IE8/Vista.

Virtual PC 2007 (free):
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6displaylang=en

Images for IE6, IE7 and IE8:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EFdisplaylang=en


- Quiller

2009/5/21 Kevin Doyle sharpspa...@yahoo.com

 [snip]
 I am having trouble with several things in IE with a site I'm working
 on and seek some advice. I'm still grappling with a few areas of css
 so the issues may be simple, but I just can't see them!
 [/snip]

 :

 Hi Dave,

 A couple suggestions for testing and general CSS development. First,
 download IE Tester -- it's a kick butt app for testing IE version 5.5 - 8.
 Then, download the Firebug plugin for Firefox -- it allows you to play
 around with the HTML and CSS right in your browser.

 As a general rule, I develop to Firefox and use conditional comments as IE
 CSS hacks to get things to display properly in IE. Conditional comment CSS
 hacks allow you to target specific versions of IE or all of them at once.
 Use IE Tester to see which versions aren't behaving, then use the IE hacks
 to target the problem areas.

 Just in case some of those links don't work in the message board, here are
 the links I referred to above:

 - IE Tester download: http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/HomePage(it's 
 in beta, so there are a couple bugs -- still ~totally~ worth
 downloading)
 - Firebug plugin for FF: http://getfirebug.com/
 - Conditional comment CSS IE hacks:
 http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html

 I hope that helps!

 Kevin
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Re: [css-d] Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper

2009-05-21 Thread David Hucklesby
Stephen Tang wrote:
   The main problem is that our
 users would like whatever font they choose to be shown to all
 visitors of their site, and that pretty much pushes the
 implementation towards sIFR and similar Flash-based techniques.
 

This does not address your original problem regarding a lined paper 
effect, but an alternative to image replacement could be Cufon in 
conjunction with @font-face:

http://kilianvalkhof.com/2009/css-xhtml/combining-cufon-and-font-face/

I tried it and found setting up @font-face for IE relatively easy,
not the hassle that some implementers describe.

Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread David Hucklesby
Kevin Doyle wrote:
 [snip] I am having trouble with several things in IE with a site I'm 
 working on and seek some advice. I'm still grappling with a few areas
  of css so the issues may be simple, but I just can't see them! 
 [/snip]
 
 :
 
 Hi Dave,
 
 A couple suggestions for testing and general CSS development. First, 
 download IE Tester -- it's a kick butt app for testing IE version 5.5
  - 8. [...]

Hi Kevin - How do you set up IE Tester on Win xp with IE 8 installed?
I understand from the site description that it only works with IE 7.

Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] font image replacement Re: Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper

2009-05-21 Thread Stephen Tang
Hi David,
Thanks for your input on this matter.

I read the @font-face for IE article linked in your URL, and building
an EOT font sounds like a hassle.  In any case, Cufon is probably not
going to be good for my use case, since there are SEO and copy/paste
requirements.  sIFR handles those better the Cufon currently.  And
last I checked, Cufon has a potential EULA issue with font copyrights
that I'm sure the legal team would prefer not to deal with.

--Stephen

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:25 PM, David Hucklesby huckle...@gmail.com wrote:
 Stephen Tang wrote:

  The main problem is that our
 users would like whatever font they choose to be shown to all
 visitors of their site, and that pretty much pushes the
 implementation towards sIFR and similar Flash-based techniques.


 This does not address your original problem regarding a lined paper
 effect, but an alternative to image replacement could be Cufon in
 conjunction with @font-face:

 http://kilianvalkhof.com/2009/css-xhtml/combining-cufon-and-font-face/

 I tried it and found setting up @font-face for IE relatively easy,
 not the hassle that some implementers describe.

 Cordially,
 David
 --

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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread Kevin Doyle
Hi Kevin - How do you set up IE Tester on Win xp with IE 8 installed?
I understand from the site description that it only works with IE 7.

Cordially,
David




Hmm... Good question and I wish I had an answer for you, David -- I apologize. 
Perhaps, as a temporary solution, uninstall ie8 then install ie7...? Not sure 
if you want to lose ie8, though. I'll go through the IETester forum and see 
what I can find later today, if I can. 

k.
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Re: [css-d] Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper

2009-05-21 Thread Stephen Tang
Hi Vladislav,,
Unfortunately, the amount of text could vary, so a static background
image is not likely to work.

--Stephen

-- Forwarded message --
From: Vladislav Vladimirov vladk...@gmail.com
To: CSS-D css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:48:40 +0300
Subject: Re: [css-d] Displaying/Simulating handwritten fonts on notebook paper
Why not use a background image of a wrapper to simulate the lines?

 My first thought was sIFR for the fonts, but I don't
 think it supports the lines.  Is there anything that supports this?

Regards,
Vladislav
http://www.ovalpixels.com/
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread David Laakso
David Bailey wrote:
 Hi,

 I am having trouble with several things in IE with a site I'm working  
 on and seek some advice. I'm still grappling with a few areas of css  
 so the issues may be simple, but I just can't see them!

 Please look at http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/index3.php.
 Stylesheets:
 http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/styles/layout.css
 http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/styles/layout_ie.css
 http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/CSSMenuWriter/cssmw/menu.css
 http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/CSSMenuWriter/cssmw/menu_ie.css
   


This line above the doctype puts IE/6  in quirksmode.
!-- HEADER INCLUDE Goes here --
If it is deleted and the width of this selector is reduced, you may 
avoid the float drop:
#left-panel { border: 1px solid fuchsia;
float: left;
  width: /*16%*/15%;
padding-top: 10px;
padding-left: 2%;
padding-right: 2%;
}


It is difficult to bring your page up at all in the IE browsers because 
of the js errors.
It would probably be a good idea to validate the markup, too.
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webanz.com%2Fwebanz_new%2Findex3.php

I think your chances of getting that site functional in IE/5 is slim to 
none.

Perhaps someone else on the list will provide more comprehensive 
solutions to all your questions...





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[css-d] style first p only if it is emphasized?

2009-05-21 Thread Matt Wilkie
Dear css-discuss, how might one style the first paragraph, only if it
is emphasized? can it be done without javascript?

Given this html:

div class=content
pemAn intro paragraph which should be highlighted in some
manner,/em embut the [em] might not apply to whole paragraph in a
single piece./em/p
pThis is a normal paragraph which should be left alone./p
/div

div class=content.
pThiis normal paragraph which should also be left alone./p
/div


This css *almost* works, except it breaks the paragraph apart if there
is more than one em :

/* box and center if 1st paragraph in page is emphasized */
.content  p:first-child  em:first-child {
max-width:35em;
padding: 0.5em;
display: block;
text-align:justified;
margin: 0 10% 0 10%;
}

Perhaps I should be taking another approach altogether?

thanks in advance for your time and thoughts,

-- 
-matt
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[css-d] h3 with layout is clearing a float in IE6

2009-05-21 Thread lev rickards
We're trying to position a set of h3's and text next to a left-floated
navigation list. Straight forward, right? However, we want the h3's to
be clickable for some jQuery hide/reveals. We wanted the entire h3
background to be clickable, which in IE seems to require giving the
headers hasLayout. Compare the results in FF and IE(6):

http://sandbox.hgci2.net/

We gave the h3's hasLayout by specifying their width. As soon as the
headers got layout, they jumped below the navigation list. If we
remove layout by deleting the width specification, the header (and
everything after) jumps back into the flow of their parent div. Why
does this happen? Any suggestions for overcoming this?

Ideal case:
1) all div#comparisons h3's have layout
2) everything within div#comparisons stays to the right of the navigation list.

Note: the page appears to validate CSS/HTML.

Thank you,
Lev Rickards
Office for Sustainability
Harvard University
http://green.harvard.edu

-- 
Dost thou reckon thyself only a puny form / When within thee the
universe is folded?
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SVFV/svfv-6.html
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Re: [css-d] setting a div's width to container remaining available space

2009-05-21 Thread Alan Gresley
Ido dekkers wrote:
 is there a way to make div2 below take the entire remaining space of
 container if i don't know how wide div1 will be?
 
 all of them are positioned relative and float to the left?
 
 
 div id=container
   div id=div1
   /div
   div id=div2
   /div
 /div
 
 Thanks
 
 Ido

Don't float or position the child divs. Just give a percentage width to 
the last child element.

#container {float:left;}
#div1 {background:lime;}
#div2 {background:red;width:100%;}


-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] h3 with layout is clearing a float in IE6

2009-05-21 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
lev rickards wrote:

 http://sandbox.hgci2.net/

 Ideal case: 1) all div#comparisons h3's have layout 2) everything
 within div#comparisons stays to the right of the navigation list.

Total width of h3 with padding and all is to large to fit, and IE6
doesn't handle overflow properly.

Easiest solution:

1: remove width references on all h3.
2: add...

#comparisons h3 {height: 1%; }



regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] h3 with layout is clearing a float in IE6

2009-05-21 Thread David Laakso
lev rickards wrote:
 We're trying to position a set of h3's and text next to a left-floated
 navigation list. Straight forward, right? However, we want the h3's to
 be clickable for some jQuery hide/reveals. We wanted the entire h3
 background to be clickable, which in IE seems to require giving the
 headers hasLayout. Compare the results in FF and IE(6):

 http://sandbox.hgci2.net/
   


 Any suggestions for overcoming this?
   


Add float:right to the h3 styles and IE 6/7 should come on board (not 
tested). Too tight tolerance for the IEs.
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Re: [css-d] Centering in everything but IE8

2009-05-21 Thread David Laakso
christi...@netscape.net wrote:
 Any ideas as to why the main container at: 
 http://www.cmzmedia.com/irarollover/ would center in every browser except for 
 IE8?
   



I ran your invalid file through Tidy Online http://infohound.net/tidy/ 
and it centered in IE/8 local.
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Re: [css-d] style first p only if it is emphasized?

2009-05-21 Thread David Hucklesby
Matt Wilkie wrote:
 Dear css-discuss, how might one style the first paragraph, only if it
  is emphasized? can it be done without javascript?
 
[code snipped]

Do you have control of the markup? I think I'd add an extra DIV around
such paragraphs, styled via a selector such as this:

   .content div p {}

If you do not control markup then, yes, you'd need scripting to add the
DIV to relevant paragraphs for this approach to work.

Cordially,
David
--
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Re: [css-d] Centering in everything but IE8

2009-05-21 Thread David Hucklesby
christi...@netscape.net wrote:
 Any ideas as to why the main container at:
 http://www.cmzmedia.com/irarollover/ would center in every browser
 except for IE8?

I'm guessing you are using scripting to center in IE, as the incomplete 
DOCTYPE throws all IE into quirks mode. I also notice the page loads 
left aligned in IE 6, then shifts to the center after a delay.

If it is the script, it wouldn't be the first to fail in IE 8.

Cordially,
David
--
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[css-d] wrapper content extending into footer in Safari/Win and Opera

2009-05-21 Thread Debbie Campbell
On my site, the wrapper text is flowing down past the footer:

 http://www.redkitecreative.com/projects/mgwa/meetings.php

Can someone please help?

-- 
Debbie Campbell
www.redkitecreative.com
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Re: [css-d] wrapper content extending into footer in Safari/Win and Opera

2009-05-21 Thread David Laakso
Debbie Campbell wrote:
 On my site, the wrapper text is flowing down past the footer:

   
 http://www.redkitecreative.com/projects/mgwa/meetings.php
 

 Can someone please help?

   



You may have closed a division too early? Validate the markup and see if 
that helps...
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread David Bailey
Hi Kevin,

On 22/05/2009, at 12:51 AM, Kevin Doyle wrote:
 - IE Tester download: http://www.my-debugbar.com/wiki/IETester/ 
 HomePage (it's in beta, so there are a couple bugs -- still  
 ~totally~ worth downloading)

I've downloaded this and it looks quite good. This and probably  
Quiller's suggestion is very helpful. I only have one PC and not able  
to check the different browsers as I make adjustments, and I was  
envisaging having to check in the screenshots of browsershots.org  
every change I make!. I guess the quality and bugs will be sorted out  
over time in this program. It didn't like the javascript error that  
is apparently part of the navbar (from Web Assist's CSS Menu Writer),  
so I'll have to sort that out first before I can use it properly.


 - Firebug plugin for FF: http://getfirebug.com/

I have used this plugin on my Mac, and have just downloaded the pc  
version. Great tool.

 - Conditional comment CSS IE hacks: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/ 
 condcom.html


I am aware of the value of these conditional comments and, as the  
header of the page shows, I have used them on this site. But my real  
issue is as mentioned above, how do I start testing for each of these  
browsers. Also, I'm relatively new to css, or, at least somewhat out  
of touch with it for a while and things have moved along quite  
rapidly it appears!

Thanks for your suggestions and advice.

Regards,
David
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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues

2009-05-21 Thread David Bailey

On 22/05/2009, at 3:30 AM, Quiller wrote:
 I'd like to add my two cents to Kevin's suggestions.
 Instead, I prefer to use the Virtual PC images made available by  
 Microsoft. The whole setup is free and provides an exact  
 replication of different environments from IE6/XP to IE8/Vista.

 Virtual PC 2007 (free):
 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx? 
 FamilyId=04D26402-3199-48A3-AFA2-2DC0B40A73B6displaylang=en

 Images for IE6, IE7 and IE8:
 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx? 
 FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EFdisplaylang=en

Thanks, Quiller. Looks great, and downloading now. Should be a great  
help.

David


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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues [correction to url]

2009-05-21 Thread David Bailey

On 22/05/2009, at 5:30 AM, David Laakso wrote:
 This line above the doctype puts IE/6  in quirksmode.
 !-- HEADER INCLUDE Goes here --

Okay, that does change things dramatically. Obviously, I need to  
learn more about quirksmode. It now acts more like IE 7 in dropping  
the content of the left-hand panel, and aligning the content to the  
left. It appears I've been making adjustments to the IE style sheet  
to suit quirksmode, because it now works better using the


 If it is deleted and the width of this selector is reduced, you may  
 avoid the float drop:
 #left-panel { border: 1px solid fuchsia;
float: left;
  width: /*16%*/15%;
padding-top: 10px;
padding-left: 2%;
padding-right: 2%;
 }
Okay, I've made a couple of other adjustments now to the other floats  
and they all sit together better (along the lines of the main style  
sheet), so the above adjustment wasn't necessary. I've now got to try  
and solve the right alignment problem.


 It is difficult to bring your page up at all in the IE browsers  
 because of the js errors.

Yes, I only became aware of this later for something but it seemed to  
point to the javascript in the menu (produced by Web Assist's CSS  
Menu Writer). But I have another page (http://www.webanz.com/ 
webanz_new/int-tmpl-3col-3.php ) which for some reason, while it was  
affected by eliminating quirksmode, didn't show the same changes as  
did the index page. Also, the javascript error doesn't show up on  
this page, so I'm thinking that the javascript error has something to  
do with the image rollover sequence on the home page (produced by  
Dreamweaver 8, as I don't know javascript well enough). I'm sure I've  
seen that this sort of thing can be done using CSS, so I'll look into  
that.

 It would probably be a good idea to validate the markup, too.
 http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F% 
 2Fwww.webanz.com%2Fwebanz_new%2Findex3.php

That's weird! I did this before posting my question! I validated both  
the html and the css and all validated fine!
Okay, I've just realised my mistake. I gave you an incorrect url!  
Nevertheless, the issues are the same and it is the same style sheet.

The correct URL is:
http://www.webanz.com/webanz_new/index4.php

...which validates fine: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F% 
2Fwww.webanz.com%2Fwebanz_new%2Findex4.phpcharset=%28detect 
+automatically%29doctype=Inlinegroup=0verbose=1user- 
agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654

My apologies!

 I think your chances of getting that site functional in IE/5 is  
 slim to none.
Are you meaning, the structure of the site won't suit IE/5, or that  
IE/5 is beyond working with?

Thanks for your efforts to help!

Regards,
David

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Re: [css-d] IE layout blues [correction to url]

2009-05-21 Thread David Laakso

 I think your chances of getting that site functional in IE/5 is slim 
 to none.
 Are you meaning, the structure of the site won't suit IE/5, or that 
 IE/5 is beyond working with?

 Thanks for your efforts to help!

 Regards,
 David




The comment was based on the erroneous uri you provided, and that given 
that erroneous address, the page was worse than upside down and backward 
in IE/5.01. Whether you wish to support IE/5.01 and IE/5.5 with the 
correct uri is your call. Some of us have difficulty, if not having 
given up on,  providing continued pixel perfect rendition in IE/6.
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