Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Theresa Mesa]

How is it inefficient to add html {height: 100.1%} to your CSS, which 
immediately applies this to all pages without so much as a how-do-you-do (since 
you are using an external style sheet)? To me, if you like the aesthetics of 
not having the nav jump back and forth horizontally, it seems like the *most* 
efficient way of doing it. Either the scrollbar is there, or it's not. If you 
are centering your page, you are going to have the problem. You don't notice 
the scroll bar over there on the side unless the height of the content makes 
scrolling necessary. Otherwise, you don't pay attention to it.

Now you could spend hours (since you are a professed n00b) trying to absolutely 
position the nav, and take the chance it may not work in all browsers, or you 
apply the extra .1% of height to the html tag in your CSS, get a scrollbar on 
every page, and be done with it.

Either that, or don't try to center the page in the browser window. Let it be 
flush left. Then it's a non-issue.

Again, I got this fix from someone on this list. I've used it ever since. Works 
great. Takes two seconds to apply. Totally efficient.


Theresa



On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:31 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> Interesting. Seems inefficient. Is there another way to stabilize the nav?
> 
> BTW I am trying to get the backend of the site correct then I will focus on 
> making it pretty. :0)
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
> [mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 10:27 PM
> To: Matthew P. Johnson
> Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)
> 
> That's what I do.
> 
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Header: Correct. This is just temporary graphic...
>> 
>> I noticed the vertical scroll is causing the issue on pages where there is 
>> content that exceeded the vertical screen.
>> 
>> So do I have to give all the pages a vertical scroll bar to obtain 
>> consistency in the nav?
>> 
>> Sincerely, 
>> 
>> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
>> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
>>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 7:24 PM
>> To: Matthew P. Johnson
>> Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)
>> 
>> I have a 30" monitor (and a 20" - duals), and so if I take the browser 
>> window and pull it out to encompass your content, no scroll bar. On the 
>> contact page, if I make my window really small to be smaller than your 
>> content, I get a scrollbar.
>> 
>> If I pull the window out the width of my monitor (or close), no horizontal 
>> scrollbar. If I move it inward, scrollbar. I do notice that as I enlarge the 
>> browser window, your banner art enlarges too. That's because you've set the 
>> width of your header image to 100%, so it will enlarge to fit 100% of the 
>> browser window. And if it enlarges via width, it enlarges via height, too.
>> 
>> 
>> Theresa
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:
>> 
>>> Interesting. I will have to play with this... I wonder why I am getting a 
>>> scroll bar...
>>> _
>>> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
>>> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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>> 
>> 
> 
> __
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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Matthew P. Johnson]

Interesting. Seems inefficient. Is there another way to stabilize the nav?

BTW I am trying to get the backend of the site correct then I will focus on 
making it pretty. :0)

Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Theresa Mesa
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 10:27 PM
To: Matthew P. Johnson
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

That's what I do.

On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> Header: Correct. This is just temporary graphic...
> 
> I noticed the vertical scroll is causing the issue on pages where there is 
> content that exceeded the vertical screen.
> 
> So do I have to give all the pages a vertical scroll bar to obtain 
> consistency in the nav?
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 7:24 PM
> To: Matthew P. Johnson
> Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)
> 
> I have a 30" monitor (and a 20" - duals), and so if I take the browser window 
> and pull it out to encompass your content, no scroll bar. On the contact 
> page, if I make my window really small to be smaller than your content, I get 
> a scrollbar.
> 
> If I pull the window out the width of my monitor (or close), no horizontal 
> scrollbar. If I move it inward, scrollbar. I do notice that as I enlarge the 
> browser window, your banner art enlarges too. That's because you've set the 
> width of your header image to 100%, so it will enlarge to fit 100% of the 
> browser window. And if it enlarges via width, it enlarges via height, too.
> 
> 
> Theresa
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Interesting. I will have to play with this... I wonder why I am getting a 
>> scroll bar...
>> _
>> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
>> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
>> List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
>> List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
>> Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> 

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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Theresa Mesa]

That's what I do.

On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:25 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> Header: Correct. This is just temporary graphic...
> 
> I noticed the vertical scroll is causing the issue on pages where there is 
> content that exceeded the vertical screen.
> 
> So do I have to give all the pages a vertical scroll bar to obtain 
> consistency in the nav?
> 
> Sincerely, 
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 7:24 PM
> To: Matthew P. Johnson
> Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)
> 
> I have a 30" monitor (and a 20" - duals), and so if I take the browser window 
> and pull it out to encompass your content, no scroll bar. On the contact 
> page, if I make my window really small to be smaller than your content, I get 
> a scrollbar.
> 
> If I pull the window out the width of my monitor (or close), no horizontal 
> scrollbar. If I move it inward, scrollbar. I do notice that as I enlarge the 
> browser window, your banner art enlarges too. That's because you've set the 
> width of your header image to 100%, so it will enlarge to fit 100% of the 
> browser window. And if it enlarges via width, it enlarges via height, too.
> 
> 
> Theresa
> 
> 
> On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:
> 
>> Interesting. I will have to play with this... I wonder why I am getting a 
>> scroll bar...
>> _
>> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
>> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
>> List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
>> List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
>> Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
> 
> 

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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Matthew P. Johnson]

Header: Correct. This is just temporary graphic...

I noticed the vertical scroll is causing the issue on pages where there is 
content that exceeded the vertical screen.

So do I have to give all the pages a vertical scroll bar to obtain consistency 
in the nav?

Sincerely, 

Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 7:24 PM
To: Matthew P. Johnson
Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

I have a 30" monitor (and a 20" - duals), and so if I take the browser window 
and pull it out to encompass your content, no scroll bar. On the contact page, 
if I make my window really small to be smaller than your content, I get a 
scrollbar.

If I pull the window out the width of my monitor (or close), no horizontal 
scrollbar. If I move it inward, scrollbar. I do notice that as I enlarge the 
browser window, your banner art enlarges too. That's because you've set the 
width of your header image to 100%, so it will enlarge to fit 100% of the 
browser window. And if it enlarges via width, it enlarges via height, too.


Theresa


On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> Interesting. I will have to play with this... I wonder why I am getting a 
> scroll bar...
> _
> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
> List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
> List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
> Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/


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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Claude Needham]

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Theresa Mesa  wrote:
> Because the contact page doesn't have a vertical scrollbar on the right, but 
> the agreement page does. The whole page is jogging, not just the navigation. 
> And actually, the contact page seems to be *stretching*, along with the 
> jogging.
>
> Your HTML still has a few errors.
>
> I can't get your CSS page to validate. It's still loading in the validator. 
> Still loading...still loading...still loading...

I was able to validate the css using the direct input method at
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator
However, the url method does not seem to be working at the moment.
I tried it on a couple of different webpages.
Hopefully a transient problem.
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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Theresa Mesa]

I'm stumped. I rarely run into this issue.


On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> How can I find out how to validate the css?
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:49 PM
> To: Matthew P. Johnson
> Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)
> 
> Because the contact page doesn't have a vertical scrollbar on the right, but 
> the agreement page does. The whole page is jogging, not just the navigation. 
> And actually, the contact page seems to be *stretching*, along with the 
> jogging.
> 
> Your HTML still has a few errors.
> 
> I can't get your CSS page to validate. It's still loading in the validator. 
> Still loading...still loading...still loading...
> 
> A fix someone here gave me for the scrollbar issue is to set your html as 
> html { height: 100.1%;} This makes all the pages have a scrollbar, whether 
> they need it or not. My personal feeling on the matter is that you won't 
> really notice or care about the scrollbar unless it's evident that more 
> content needs to be viewed. If it's evident you've seen all the content, you 
> won't be confused by its presence, because it fills the length of the 
> scrollbar area. On the other hand, you do immediately notice if you're 
> flipping through pages if the content of the page is jogging back and forth. 
> Personal preference.
> 
> ...still loading...still loading. I don't know why your CSS is not loading 
> into the validator.
> 
> 
> Theresa
> 
> 

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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Matthew P. Johnson]

Interesting. I will have to play with this... I wonder why I am getting a 
scroll bar...

Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:52 PM
To: Matthew P. Johnson
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)


On Jun 3, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> If you toggle between 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml
> 
> and 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml
> 
> why does the navigation shift?

Because one page has a vertical scroll bar and the other doesn't.
(both page have a huge horizontal scrollbar)

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Matthew P. Johnson]

How can I find out how to validate the css?

Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 | ecoitsf.com
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: Theresa Mesa [mailto:trixiesirishe...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:49 PM
To: Matthew P. Johnson
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

Because the contact page doesn't have a vertical scrollbar on the right, but 
the agreement page does. The whole page is jogging, not just the navigation. 
And actually, the contact page seems to be *stretching*, along with the jogging.

Your HTML still has a few errors.

I can't get your CSS page to validate. It's still loading in the validator. 
Still loading...still loading...still loading...

A fix someone here gave me for the scrollbar issue is to set your html as html 
{ height: 100.1%;} This makes all the pages have a scrollbar, whether they need 
it or not. My personal feeling on the matter is that you won't really notice or 
care about the scrollbar unless it's evident that more content needs to be 
viewed. If it's evident you've seen all the content, you won't be confused by 
its presence, because it fills the length of the scrollbar area. On the other 
hand, you do immediately notice if you're flipping through pages if the content 
of the page is jogging back and forth. Personal preference.

...still loading...still loading. I don't know why your CSS is not loading into 
the validator.


Theresa




On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:34 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> If you toggle between 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> and 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> why does the navigation shift?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 |  
> ecoitsf.com
> 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> 
> __
> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jun 3, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> If you toggle between 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml
> 
> and 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml
> 
> why does the navigation shift?

Because one page has a vertical scroll bar and the other doesn't.
(both page have a huge horizontal scrollbar)

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Thierry Koblentz]

> If you toggle between
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> why does the navigation shift?

Because of the scrollbar that shows up when there is content below the fold.

To force a gutter, you can try this:

html {overflow-y:scroll;}

--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz

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Re: [css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Theresa Mesa]

Because the contact page doesn't have a vertical scrollbar on the right, but 
the agreement page does. The whole page is jogging, not just the navigation. 
And actually, the contact page seems to be *stretching*, along with the jogging.

Your HTML still has a few errors.

I can't get your CSS page to validate. It's still loading in the validator. 
Still loading...still loading...still loading...

A fix someone here gave me for the scrollbar issue is to set your html as html 
{ height: 100.1%;} This makes all the pages have a scrollbar, whether they need 
it or not. My personal feeling on the matter is that you won't really notice or 
care about the scrollbar unless it's evident that more content needs to be 
viewed. If it's evident you've seen all the content, you won't be confused by 
its presence, because it fills the length of the scrollbar area. On the other 
hand, you do immediately notice if you're flipping through pages if the content 
of the page is jogging back and forth. Personal preference.

...still loading...still loading. I don't know why your CSS is not loading into 
the validator.


Theresa




On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:34 PM, Matthew P. Johnson wrote:

> If you toggle between 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> and 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> why does the navigation shift?
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.
> 
> 320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 |  
> ecoitsf.com
> 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> 
> 
> 
> __
> css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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[css-d] interesting nav issue - please help :)

[Matthew P. Johnson]

If you toggle between 

 

http://www.applegateelements.com/contact.shtml

 

and 

 

http://www.applegateelements.com/agreement.shtml

 

why does the navigation shift?

 

Interesting.

 

Matthew P. Johnson | Eco I.T.

320 Warwick Avenue Oakland CA 94610 | 415.254.1563 |  
ecoitsf.com

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, Rachel Mawhood wrote:
>
> > I would set everything (except possibly image sizes) in percentages.
> 
> I must say, I would rather do this.  But a page width that looks just as I
> want it to look at 90 per cent wide on 1024 might not look nice at 1152.

You don't know what 1024 or 1152 will look like in any viewer's
browser. You don't know what font size they are using, and that
will make far more difference than 1024px vs 1052px.


And use a max-width (I like 35em).


-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, 
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Rachel Mawhood]

>I would set everything (except possibly image sizes) in percentages.

I must say, I would rather do this.  But a page width that looks just 
as I want it to look at 90 per cent wide on 1024 might not look nice 
at 1152.  For instance, if this web page was stretched wider, then 
the righthand edge of the background image in the body would probably 
become visible, "detached" from the middle (text) part of the page, 
and the righthand edge of that image is not designed to be visible.

Rachel

At 21:58 02/06/2010, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, Rachel Mawhood wrote:
>...
> > I have wondered about mixing up ems and pixels - before css, one
> > didn't mix up pixels and percentages when laying out a page - but I
> > have seen other web sites where ems and pixels are used together for
> > layout.  Should one stick to one or the other?  On this site, I have
> > set the body width in pixels because as the page content will mostly
> > be very short on every page but I guess I should set the other
> > element widths in pixels too, for the reasons you give.
>
>I would set everything (except possibly image sizes) in
>percentages.
>
>--
>Chris F.A. Johnson, 
>Author:
>Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
>Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010, Rachel Mawhood wrote:
...
> I have wondered about mixing up ems and pixels - before css, one 
> didn't mix up pixels and percentages when laying out a page - but I 
> have seen other web sites where ems and pixels are used together for 
> layout.  Should one stick to one or the other?  On this site, I have 
> set the body width in pixels because as the page content will mostly 
> be very short on every page but I guess I should set the other 
> element widths in pixels too, for the reasons you give.

   I would set everything (except possibly image sizes) in
   percentages.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, 
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Rachel Mawhood]

>This will approximately position the image; however, it is not a solution.

Thank you - I'll try that substitution -

>A "real" solution would mean re-examining your layout. There is a 
>pixel width set on the body, and the wrappers are set in em 
>widths.  There is a pixel width set on the body, and the wrappers 
>are set in em widths.

- but I am happy to re-examine the layout.

I have wondered about mixing up ems and pixels - before css, one 
didn't mix up pixels and percentages when laying out a page - but I 
have seen other web sites where ems and pixels are used together for 
layout.  Should one stick to one or the other?  On this site, I have 
set the body width in pixels because as the page content will mostly 
be very short on every page but I guess I should set the other 
element widths in pixels too, for the reasons you give.

Rachel


At 21:36 02/06/2010, David Laakso wrote:
>Rachel Mawhood wrote:
>>Hi list
>>
>>This new page has two background images, one in the body and one (a 
>>logo) in a div called #outerwall (ie the wrapper).
>>
>>http://www.st-alfege.org/friends-of-the-park/
>>
>>Chrome seems to compute the position of the logo differently from 
>>other browsers and puts it about 90 pixels too far to the right.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>I did not look at it in Chrome.
>I imagine all browsers treat it in relatively the same manner.
>
>This will approximately position the image; however, it is not a solution.
>
>#outerwall {
>min-height: 100%;
>
>/*background-color: transparent;
>background-image: url("fostp-lo.jpg");
>background-repeat: no-repeat;
>background-attachment: fixed;
>background-position: 87% 1%;
>z-index: 2;*/
>
>background: url("../friends-images/fostp-logo.jpg") 797px 10px no-repeat;
>}
>
>
>A "real" solution would mean re-examining your layout. There is a 
>pixel width set on the body, and the wrappers are set in em widths.
>
>Those users at 1152 and wider width windows will not see the image 
>at all; those users at less wide windows than 1024 see the image 
>partly covered by the content beneath it;
>those users who scale-fonts, or have a min-font size setting, will 
>find the content text expanding both left and right and more or less 
>doing a number on your layout concept.
>
>
>
>Best,
>~d
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>desktop
>http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[David Laakso]

Rachel Mawhood wrote:
> Hi list
>
> This new page has two background images, one in the body and one (a 
> logo) in a div called #outerwall (ie the wrapper).
>
> http://www.st-alfege.org/friends-of-the-park/
>
> Chrome seems to compute the position of the logo differently from 
> other browsers and puts it about 90 pixels too far to the right.
>
>   



I did not look at it in Chrome.
I imagine all browsers treat it in relatively the same manner. 


This will approximately position the image; however, it is not a solution.

#outerwall {
min-height: 100%;

/*background-color: transparent;
background-image: url("fostp-lo.jpg");
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-attachment: fixed;
background-position: 87% 1%;
z-index: 2;*/

background: url("../friends-images/fostp-logo.jpg") 797px 10px no-repeat;
}


A "real" solution would mean re-examining your layout. There is a pixel 
width set on the body, and the wrappers are set in em widths.

Those users at 1152 and wider width windows will not see the image at all; 
those users at less wide windows than 1024 see the image partly covered 
by the content beneath it;
those users who scale-fonts, or have a min-font size setting, will find 
the content text expanding both left and right and more or less doing a 
number on your layout concept.



Best,
~d







-- 
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Background question...

[Michael Beaudoin]

> At 19:56 02/06/2010, Michael Beaudoin wrote:
>> Thanks to all for the help, but this one is escaping me...
>>
>> I have the following div's:
>>
>> 
>>  
>>  header
>>  header copy
>>
>>
>>  left nav here 
>>main content here
>>
>> 
>>
>> and I would like a background behind the content area, but when I put
>> it in the page-wrap, it won't show behind the leftNav and main areas.
>>
>> The leftNav is floated left, and the main is floated right.
>>
>> What am I missing? I'm sure it's head-slapping simple.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Michael
>> __

On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Rachel Mawhood wrote:

> Have you made leftNav and the main areas transparent?
>
> background-color: transparent;
>
> Rachel

Aw crud. Totally forgot about that one.

Will the content area expand with the leftNav and main div's? Or can it?

Thanks.
Michael
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Re: [css-d] Background question...

[Alan Gresley]

Michael Beaudoin wrote:
> Thanks to all for the help, but this one is escaping me...
> 
> I have the following div's:
> 
> 
>   
>   header
>   header copy
> 
> 
>   left nav here 
> main content here
> 
> 
> 
> and I would like a background behind the content area, but when I put  
> it in the page-wrap, it won't show behind the leftNav and main areas.
> 
> The leftNav is floated left, and the main is floated right.
> 
> What am I missing? I'm sure it's head-slapping simple.
> 
> Thanks,
> Michael


Hello Michael,

Yes it could possibly be somewhat simple. Create a 'block formating 
context' to contain those two floats.


For good browsers, use this (including IE7).

#page-warp {overflow: hidden;}


For IE6-, use this.

* html #page-warp {height: 1%;} /* IE6 hasLayout trigger */


Another way is to insert a clearing div.



   
   header
   header copy
   

 
   left nav here 
 main content here
 






The HTML comment will hopefully avoid a IE6 bug.



-- 
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] Background question...

[Peter Bradley]

Ar 02/06/10 19:56, ysgrifennodd Michael Beaudoin :
> Thanks to all for the help, but this one is escaping me...
>
> I have the following div's:
>
> 
>
>header
>header copy
>
>  
>left nav here  
>  main content here
>  
> 
>
> and I would like a background behind the content area, but when I put
> it in the page-wrap, it won't show behind the leftNav and main areas.
>
> The leftNav is floated left, and the main is floated right.
>
> What am I missing? I'm sure it's head-slapping simple.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
> __
>
>

Heh!  Yes it is - if I understand you correctly.

Floats are not content in the same way as un-floated blocks are.  So, 
your #page-wrap contains the #header, whose height is determined by the 
height of the two paragraphs it contains.  You then have a #content div 
that follows the second paragraph but has no height at all because it 
has no non-floated content.  Your floated divs float over this div and 
therefore display no background but their own.

If you use Firefox's Web Developer's Toolbar and get it to outline block 
elements you'll see what I mean.

Cheers


Peter

-- 
http://www.peredur.net

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Re: [css-d] Background question...

[Rachel Mawhood]

Have you made leftNav and the main areas transparent?

background-color: transparent;

Rachel

At 19:56 02/06/2010, Michael Beaudoin wrote:
>Thanks to all for the help, but this one is escaping me...
>
>I have the following div's:
>
>
>   
>   header
>   header copy
>
> 
>   left nav here 
> main content here
> 
>
>
>and I would like a background behind the content area, but when I put
>it in the page-wrap, it won't show behind the leftNav and main areas.
>
>The leftNav is floated left, and the main is floated right.
>
>What am I missing? I'm sure it's head-slapping simple.
>
>Thanks,
>Michael
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[css-d] Background question...

[Michael Beaudoin]

Thanks to all for the help, but this one is escaping me...

I have the following div's:


  
  header
  header copy


  left nav here 
main content here



and I would like a background behind the content area, but when I put  
it in the page-wrap, it won't show behind the leftNav and main areas.

The leftNav is floated left, and the main is floated right.

What am I missing? I'm sure it's head-slapping simple.

Thanks,
Michael
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Re: [css-d] windows display problems with drop downs

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Liz Butler wrote:

>>   http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/shopping/shopping/19/online-store.html
>>
>> http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/products/products/18/our-products.html
>>
>> - there seems to be a display problem with the main menu with firefox on
>> windows

It looks to me (without looking into the code) as if there
are some percentages somewhere that can add up to just over
100 in certain circumstances (due to rounding).

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] windows display problems with drop downs

[David Laakso]

Liz Butler wrote:
>  http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/shopping/shopping/19/online-store.html
>
> http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/products/products/18/our-products.html
>
> - there seems to be a display problem with the main menu with firefox on
> windows



Its okay in Mac FF.

In Windows:

Open Firefox.
Resize>Zoom>Zoom Out.

Does this correct the problem?

Best,
~d




-- 
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Rachel Mawhood]

It was Chrome on a Mac - will ask about the version/OS and report back.
Rachel

At 17:55 02/06/2010, Jack Timmons wrote:
>On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Rachel Mawhood 
> wrote:
> > Hi list
>
>What version of Chrome?
>
>In 5.0 and Firefox latest (I don't like to keep it open), they look the same.
>
>--
>-Jack Timmons
>Blog: http://www.codeacula.com
>Sandbox: http://www.trotlc.com
>Twitter: @codeacula
>Google Chat: Figure it out. C'mon, seriously.

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[css-d] Chrome background image bug?

[Rachel Mawhood]

Hi list

This new page has two background images, one in the body and one (a 
logo) in a div called #outerwall (ie the wrapper).

http://www.st-alfege.org/friends-of-the-park/

Chrome seems to compute the position of the logo differently from 
other browsers and puts it about 90 pixels too far to the right.

I have looked on the web for a fix but not yet found anything that 
remedies this.

The style sheet is here

http://www.st-alfege.org/friends-of-the-park/friends-styles/friends.css

(Two of the divs not yet in use - those called #east and #north.)

Chrome also sticks the footer at the bottom of the screen, which 
looks v. odd on high resolution screens; and I thought that the 
solution I found here

http://www.cssstickyfooter.com/using-sticky-footer-code.html

would keep the footer stuck immediately below #innerwall

Would be grateful for any pointers.  (The html and css validate OK.)

Cheers.
Rachel

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Matthew]

I apologize to Philippe and the rest of board for sounding petty, snarky and 
defensive in my last message from last night. I'm frustrated and I came off as 
such. 

I do appreciate the help.

- Matthew


On Jun 2, 2010, at 12:20 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:

> Matthew wrote:
>> On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
>>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Matthew wrote:
>>> 
 In other browsers it seem that the proper setting is
 
> td {
>   padding-left: 40px;
> }
 
 
 but in Safari, this makes the content in the table appear too far to the 
 left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
 
 If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
 
 you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?
>>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Philippe
>>> ---
>>> Philippe Wittenbergh
>>> http://l-c-n.com/
>> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek 
>> our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
>> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>> The eternal CSS n00b,
>> Matthew
> 
> 
> We can not know fully if the cause of the trouble is a rendering error or if 
> the difference is due to browser recovery of mangled HTML. Each browser has a 
> different recovery mode.
> 
> In you current HTML, you have list items  that are not enclosed with 
> either a  or .
> 
> 
> Quark/InDesign
> 
> 
> Do you suggest that we create a test case to see if Safari handles this 
> invalid HTML differently. This is the first thing we would do anyway.
> 
> 
> BTW, Philippe provides great help on this list and he like the rest of us are 
> willing to help.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alan http://css-class.com/
> 
> Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo

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[css-d] windows display problems with drop downs

[Liz Butler]

 http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/shopping/shopping/19/online-store.html

http://newsite.herb-pharm.com/products/products/18/our-products.html

- there seems to be a display problem with the main menu with firefox on
windows, but not ie (at least the version i am able to see).  the menu
items are not nearly spread out enough.  i cannot figure out what it is.
and i don't know how to fix it other than brute forcing stuff in php and css
- not a trivial task.  there is no equivalent to [if IE] for firefox, so i'd
have to sniff the browser in php and modify the css accordingly?


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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[russ]

This is very good advice. I spent about 4 hours last week trying to get a 
site to behave. It just didn't make any sense that it wasn't working. 
Finally, I decided to validate the site. There was nothing wrong with the 
CSS, but there was a missing character in my HTML that was not caught by the 
Error Console. Problem solved.

Russ M

>
> Expecting you to validate your site (HTML and CSS) as a precursor to
> offering other help is a very reasonable request. Take it, you will like
> the results.
>
> Bill B

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly --SAFARI issue

[JWN]

Morning Mathew

You wrote
- Original Message - >>> but in Safari, this makes the content in 
the table appear too far to the left. In Safari this must be set to 16px.
>>>
>>> If you have Safari and can check out: http://em-w.com/resume.html
>>>
>>> you'll see what I mean. Does anyone have any ideas?

And Phillippe wrote

>>
>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>> 
>>
>> Philippe
>> ---

And you replied

> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek 
> our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why 
> my site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew


You might want to read this old nugget of wisdom from DiveinMark.org

http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you

As others will note, (or have noted) validation is not the end all be all, 
but it is a good first step to getting help here or elsewhere.

Best

Jim Nannery
www.oldcurmudgeon.net

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Bill Braun]

Matthew wrote:
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still 
> seek our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me understand why my 
> site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b,
> Matthew
>   

It may or may not be, depending on your interpretation.

Inclusive of your feelings on the subject, validating your site it is 
excellent advice. Seeking knowledge is just fine, but rejecting part of 
that knowledge (validating your site first) and expecting people to sort 
through an unvalidated site to help you fix your problem is off course.

You are coming across as cherry picking the knowledge you think you want 
and then getting testy when people challenge you on that.

Expecting you to validate your site (HTML and CSS) as a precursor to 
offering other help is a very reasonable request. Take it, you will like 
the results.

Bill B

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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[David Hucklesby]

On 6/1/10 8:47 PM, Matthew wrote:
>
> On Jun 1, 2010, at 7:56 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
>
[code etc. snipped]
>>
>> Dunno, I would start with this:
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
Philippe
>> --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://l-c-n.com/
>
>
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still
> seek our knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
> If so, sorry for wasting your time. If not, please help me
> understand why my site doesn't work in Safari. Your message does
> nothing to help! Thanks!
>
> The eternal CSS n00b, Matthew

This makes me angry. Matthew, several of us have offered ideas to solve
your problem, of which validating your code is an excellent and useful
one, IMHO.

Such a churlish reply to our efforts would surely get you banned from
less forgiving lists.

Please reconsider your attitude. Apologies will be accepted--by me,
anyway. Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
David
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Re: [css-d] Firefox wont align content in a table properly -- SAFARI issue

[Peter Bradley]

Ar 02/06/10 04:47, ysgrifennodd Matthew :
>
> Is this the "how dare you make so many HTML/CSS violations and still seek our 
> knowledge?!?!11?" missive?
>
>

Well, in my opinion, no.  If your code does not validate it may well be 
that that is the cause of your problem.  It's certainly the first place 
I would look.

Just out of interest, I wonder why you think that suggesting you have 
valid markup is a kind of bureaucratic entrance exam rather than a 
genuine suggestion as to how you might solve your problem (or at least 
get a handle on it)?  Do you know why it is desirable to have valid markup?

Cheers



Peter

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