Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
If anyone's interested in trying to see if they can break the pages again, I'd love to have you try :) Some of the places I previously spotted it happening are below: http://www.kenyon.edu/x12366.xml http://www.kenyon.edu/x7904.xml http://www.kenyon.edu/x14305.xml http://www.kenyon.edu/x34363.xml Again, IE only. What I ended up doing was applying a min-height to the content section. The real trick was that it's not the same min-height on each page. I really gave the CMS's xslt processor a workout to get it to estimate the height of that left column, and it's still not a pretty fix (in my opinion). For the time being I used the CMS's sniffer to only apply it when the page is accessed via IE. If I later am satisfied that the fix causes no problems in any other browsers I'll probably drop that portion of the code so I don't have to depend on browser detection. Thanks for all the ideas; they did help get me pointed in the right direction (I think! Unless someone finds it misbehaving again!) ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
Certainly. Here's the way it should look: http://theredsetter.com/test/ie7mistake_good.jpg Here's what it does sometimes that it shouldn't: http://theredsetter.com/test/ie7mistake_bad.jpg Note that the good screenshot was taken after refreshing the bad, so you're looking at the same page in the same browser, with a refresh in between. ~Rebecca Krystian - Sunlust wrote: Couldn't reproduce IE 8 Windows7, Opera 9.64 Windows7, Firefox 3.0.7. Either they all produced the bug, or even I force refreshed few times, haven't procued the bug. Please upload a screenshot of how it should look. Regards, __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
I did a copy-and-paste validation and only found a couple of unencoded two missing alts, and an xmlns attribute that I need to get rid of--I can't imagine those being the trouble. They're not things I want in there, and I should find and fix them regardless, but they're not the sort of thing that I imagine even IE would choke on. Have you had experience with browsers breaking on those particular validation errors? I'm curious now, because I may not be able to fix them. We're on a CMS, and it does bizarre things to code; sometimes I can wrestle it into submission, sometimes not. ~Rebecca Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Rebecca Mazur wrote: If someone could just recognize and name the bug for me, that would be a help, as then I could go searching for solutions. http://www.kenyon.edu/x12305.xml The bug is clear enough, but finding a fix isn't. I found it easier to reproduce the problem in IE6 - multiple times, and that IE-version also shows clearly that one can fix the problem by cleaning up the source-code. I used HTML Tidy on a local copy. Once it becomes stable in IE6 it is also perfectly stable in IE7. However, trying to analyze what my Tidy actually did that fixed it isn't easy since I can't use the validator on your original. regards Georg __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
I thought I'd buried this one a year ago. Guess not. If someone could just recognize and name the bug for me, that would be a help, as then I could go searching for solutions. Here's the trouble. We have a footer that's supposed to stay at the bottom of the page. *Sometimes* the stupid bugger rides up the screen to overlap with the page subnavigation. On reload, the page is magically fixed. The problem can be reproduced by clearing all history/cache-type files from IE and restarting the browser--but only sometimes. Sometimes it's still OK when you come back to it. The real trick is that I thought I had this thing solved when we launched last May and now it's gone and showed up again. No changes have been made to the code, so I think it's been happening all along but that it's intermittent enough that nobody reported it until today. The vendor had actually originally written the page with a javascript fix for this problem that fixed roughly half of the occurrences... and mucked up roughly half of the pages that didn't have the problem to start with. Needless to say, that was pitched out as soon as I figured out what it was doing. Here is one page that has definitely done it to me more than once: http://www.kenyon.edu/x12305.xml And here's a list of departments, many of which are candidates for the same problem, for if that one doesn't cooperate: http://www.kenyon.edu/departments.xml Please be kind. The code isn't mine, though I've done what I could to fix it up. Thanks, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
No good, though I wish that was all it would take. That's what lines up the bottom of the footer with the bottom of the content; take that out and the top of the footer lines up with the bottom of the content. If there was some other way to get the cussed thing to do that, the positioning would have been out of there a long time ago :( ~Rebecca Martin Möller wrote: Heya Rebecca, your DIV footer is: position:absolute; very bad. remove that attribute. Then fix your DIV masthead padding-bottom:240px; to something more suitable like like 140px; The Problem should never occure again. Cheers, Martin On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Rebecca Mazur maz...@kenyon.edu wrote: I thought I'd buried this one a year ago. Guess not. If someone could just recognize and name the bug for me, that would be a help, as then I could go searching for solutions. Here's the trouble. We have a footer that's supposed to stay at the bottom of the page. *Sometimes* the stupid bugger rides up the screen to overlap with the page subnavigation. On reload, the page is magically fixed. The problem can be reproduced by clearing all history/cache-type files from IE and restarting the browser--but only sometimes. Sometimes it's still OK when you come back to it. The real trick is that I thought I had this thing solved when we launched last May and now it's gone and showed up again. No changes have been made to the code, so I think it's been happening all along but that it's intermittent enough that nobody reported it until today. The vendor had actually originally written the page with a javascript fix for this problem that fixed roughly half of the occurrences... and mucked up roughly half of the pages that didn't have the problem to start with. Needless to say, that was pitched out as soon as I figured out what it was doing. Here is one page that has definitely done it to me more than once: http://www.kenyon.edu/x12305.xml And here's a list of departments, many of which are candidates for the same problem, for if that one doesn't cooperate: http://www.kenyon.edu/departments.xml Please be kind. The code isn't mine, though I've done what I could to fix it up. Thanks, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
Sweet code there :) Not quite what I'm looking for, though, and I probably wasn't clear with my prose in my original email. The footer is kind of funky because it shares a column with the subnavigation *but* should align bottom-to-bottom with the content column *unless* the subnavigation+footer is longer than the is longer than the content... nothing weird about that, now is there? ;) This is opposed to the code you sent which lines the footer up with either the bottom of the content or the bottom of the view; similar idea. But I'm going to have on to that reference; who knows when I may need it :) ~Rebecca Elias Abunassar wrote: On Apr 8, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Rebecca Mazur wrote: No good, though I wish that was all it would take. That's what lines up the bottom of the footer with the bottom of the content; take that out and the top of the footer lines up with the bottom of the content. If there was some other way to get the cussed thing to do that, the positioning would have been out of there a long time ago :( ~Rebecca Rebecca, Try: [1] http://www.cssstickyfooter.com/, or [2] http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/ [1] should work in IE6-8 HTH, elias abunassar http://eliasabunassar.com __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Intermittent IE 7 problem
Hmm, I might have to resort to that. The trouble with min-height, of course, is that our subnavs don't have a consistent height so I would either have some pages that are taller than they should be or risk having it still happen in some cases. I could probably prevent it on a larger number of subsites that way, though. I'm intrigued by your thoughts on why it's happening, though, and will spend some time mulling them over, if only for the time-killing value ;) It's a picky little design, ours. ~Rebecca Els wrote: Rebecca Mazur wrote: Here's the trouble. We have a footer that's supposed to stay at the bottom of the page. *Sometimes* the stupid bugger rides up the screen to overlap with the page subnavigation. On reload, the page is magically fixed. Here is one page that has definitely done it to me more than once: http://www.kenyon.edu/x12305.xml On first load that's exactly what happens, and on reload it is fixed, like you say. The one cause I can think of, is that the positioning of the footer is happening before the page is loaded. When #content is not stretched full height yet, and the footer positions itself relative to the #content's bottom border (which is what the position:absolute does here), its position just doesn't get updated once the #content is fully stretched. Since IE7 supports min-height, I think you could solve it by setting a min-height to #content, so that at least the footer won't overlap the menu on the left. It will still be higher than it should on first load, but that's better than overlapping. __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] trying to fix this without using javascript
Hi all, Long time, no post. Here's the problem of the day. I'm working with a web design vendor who has decided that they need to use Javascript to fix what should be a CSS problem. I don't find this acceptable, but I'm having a hard time convincing anyone who makes decisions of that. So instead, I've got to try to solve the problem so we don't have a broken page for people with no javascript. I've had to put this up on my own personal server to show to you. Here's the page: http://theredsetter.com/test/subpage.html Visit it without Javascript and watch the address roll up over the navigation; visit it with to see what it should look like. Anyone have a fix for that that doesn't use Javascript? Notice that with Javascript off you *can't* use the navigation at all because the footer gets in the way. Ignore the purple bar at the top -- it's supposed to have images in it. If you notice any other problems, please tell me, but please don't yell. I don't have a whole lot of weight in this process and really can't get things changed. Thanks, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] trying to fix this without using javascript
Yeah, I thought it might do that. Here's the thing, though: the folks on the committee want the bottom of the footer lined up with the bottom of the content on longer pages -- like this: http://kenyonbuildout.babywhale.net/visit/subpage.html Knocking out the positioning would align the top of the footer with the bottom of the content, I believe. I'm betting this can't be done... but what do I know ;) ~Rebecca Valerie Wininger wrote: Sorry about the previous empty post--what I intended to say was: I played around with the css in Firebug and by removing the absolute positioning from the footer div, it dropped down below the nav and allowed all the links to work again. Do you need that div to be absolutely positioned? Valerie On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Valerie Wininger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Rebecca Mazur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Long time, no post. Here's the problem of the day. I'm working with a web design vendor who has decided that they need to use Javascript to fix what should be a CSS problem. I don't find this acceptable, but I'm having a hard time convincing anyone who makes decisions of that. So instead, I've got to try to solve the problem so we don't have a broken page for people with no javascript. I've had to put this up on my own personal server to show to you. Here's the page: http://theredsetter.com/test/subpage.html Visit it without Javascript and watch the address roll up over the navigation; visit it with to see what it should look like. Anyone have a fix for that that doesn't use Javascript? Notice that with Javascript off you *can't* use the navigation at all because the footer gets in the way. Ignore the purple bar at the top -- it's supposed to have images in it. If you notice any other problems, please tell me, but please don't yell. I don't have a whole lot of weight in this process and really can't get things changed. Thanks, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ -- Valerie Wininger www.valeriewininger.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Color bar in Moz 1.7 and NN 7.x
Hi again everyone, We went live with our new code last week, and as always something turned up after the fact :) I fixed the primary problem and used the opening as an excuse for straightening up some other code with the result that more browsers came into line with what I wanted, but Mozilla hiccups slightly. If you look at http://www.kenyon.edu/index.xml in Mozilla 1.7 (or NN 7, when it's feeling particularly intractable) you might notice a strip of color outside the curves of the two boxes in the center well. Because NN 7 and Mozilla together make up less than 2% of our visitors and it's not a total collapse of the design, I'm not too worried about it, but if anyone knows how it could be fixed without blowing up any other browsers, I'd be grateful. CSS for that page is here: http://www.kenyon.edu/PreBuilt/index.css Thanks, ~RM __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Netscape 7.02 and that site I sent before
Hi all... again, I would very much like to play whack-a-mole with some Netscape developeres at the moment. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to check out http://zeta-bulletin.kenyon.edu/index.xml in Netscape 7.02 and let me know if they have any idea where the scrollbars in the side navigation on the subpages are coming from? I'm not sure I can get away with delivering an unstyled page to *this* set of visitors unfortunately. Thanks, ~RM __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Hiding CSS from Netscape 6?
Thanks to Kieron I found out that the design I recently sent in for a check falls apart miserably in Netscape 6 (6.0x only, Kieron? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did download and test 6.2.3 and it seemed OK) Anyway, Netscape 6.x actually accounts for less than a 100th of a percent of our visitors in all of its various forms, so I'm not too worried about it -- however, I'd like to serve them a copy with no styles instead of broken styles. Is there a CSS trick to hide styles from Netscape 6.x? I'm already using @import to hide the styles from all the older browser that don't pretend to be newer browsers :) Thanks, ~RM __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Site check; Kenyon Alumni Bulletin
Hi all, We're rolling out a new look for our magazine, and before I try to implement the thing, I thought I'd throw it out for you all to rip up :) The pages of interest are: http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/index.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/toc.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/feature.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/package.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/feature2.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/feature3.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/short.html http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/index.css http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/28_4.css http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/28_4_cover.css http://www1.kenyon.edu/bulletin_test/templates/styles.css The multiple CSS files have to do with the fact that colors will change from issue to issue to echo the color choice in the print design. So index.css and styles.css will always remain the same, but the other two are likely to change. styles.css and index.css also have fall-back styles in them just in case we don't assign a special CSS file to an issue. I'm most interested in having the pages checked in multiple browsers. There will be broken links, of course; these are just templates. There is one known problem with the front page in IE 5.2 Mac... the footer centers, but the rest does not. If anyone has any ideas on why that's happening, I'd like to hear about it. I've checked it in IE 6, IE 5.5, IE 5.0, Netscape 7.2, Opera 9b, and Firefox 1/5 on Windows; and IE 5.2, Safari, Firefox 0.9 (wow... time to upgrade), Opera 8.something, and Netscape 7 on the Mac. I've also resized the text up to largest in IE and down to smallest, and up several sizes in Firefox. I've not hit the size check on all the others yet. I'll probably be throwing a .htaccess back on this come end of day Friday so that it doesn't get picked up by Google. Thanks much, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Arbitrary footer trouble.
Hi again, OK, no one had an aha moment, so I did manage to get the server opened up and I'm going to try again. I'm including below this message the stuff that I sent out before, just in case anyone wants to look at it. Here's the problem again: part of my footer is riding up the page *occasionally*, seemingly without rhyme or reason (The oops_bar image linked below is a mock-up of what happens). One page that we've seen it happen on for sure is: http://zeta-www.kenyon.edu/x11593.xml , and there's some suspicion that it only happens on long pages. I've only seen it happen in IE 6, but because it's so intermittent, I'm not certain that it doesn't happen in other browsers as well. It had been suggested that the bar might have been landing at the bottom of the viewport rather than the bottom of the page where it belongs (thanks cj :) ), but I haven't spotted anything that seems to indicate that. The beige bar and the purple bar are both within a div that clears the floated columns above -- is it possible for a child of a clearing div to escape if it's not also set to clear? You'll notice that the content doesn't fully validate -- this is due to unclosed img and br tags that the CMS produces and that I haven't figured out how to get around. The design itself should validate, and pages that don't have content images or breaks should validate (minus some truly obnoxious xmlns attributes that I'm still trying to get rid of). If anyone has seen unclosed br and img tags do funny things to a design I want to hear about it, though! Here's the index page to that site if you want to surf around and see if you can get it to happen on any other pages: http://zeta-www.kenyon.edu/index.xml The server will be open to the world until tomorrow afternoon, when we'll be closing it up again. At this point I'm not interested in any other crits, unless you find something *really* broken; the design is supposed to mimic the current site's design without being tables nested 4 deep, and it's only a stopgap due to last maybe a year before being replaced, but I would prefer that it not be doing random acrobatics in the meantime :) Thanks in advance, ~RM Stuff from my original message: Here's the fake screenshot: http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/oops_bar.jpg As you probably guessed, that purple bar should be at the bottom of the window, directly beneath and snug up to the yellow bar, not floating around in the middle. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Arbitrary footer trouble.
Hi all, I've been having an intermittent problem with our new CSS/XHTML design -- so intermittent that I haven't been able to reproduce it myself and have only come across it on one occasion when it happened to somebody else and I just happened to be nearby. Sounds real promising, I know. Anyway, as the design is still on an internal test server, I've put the source, CSS, and a fake of what the problem looks like on one of our public servers. If nobody looks at them and has an aha moment, I'll beg IT to make the server temporarily available off-campus and send the problem again. Here's the fake screenshot: http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/oops_bar.jpg As you probably guessed, that purple bar should be at the bottom of the window, directly beneath and snug up to the yellow bar, not floating around in the middle. This doesn't happen consistently across pages and it doesn't always happen more than once to the same page. Refreshing appears to make it go away. I've only seen it happen in IE 6, but I'm not certain which browser the others who have seen it were using. Here's the source : http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/oops_source.txt And here's the css: http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/styles.css Again, don't fool away too much time looking at this if it's not a duh problem. I'm just hoping that someone will know what it is right off the bat :) Thanks, ~RM __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Page check
Hi folks, first time posting to the list with a layout that I'd like to see reviewed: Page: http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/content.html CSS: http://www1.kenyon.edu/examples/styles.css Here's the page in our current site that I was trying to imitate: http://www.kenyon.edu/x2132.xml We're trying to get our site cleaned up and XHTML-compliant (look under the hood of the old one if you want a laugh), but at this point I don't have permissions to actually change the design in any way other than the requested additional footer, and I know that there are various usability and accessibility issues with the look itself that I can't do much about. Rumblings of a new design are on their way and I'll have input in it, so hopefully it won't get the chance to have the same problems. Anyway, I'd love to hear back on tests in various browsers (I've done Firefox 1.0.7, IE 6.0, IE 5.5 and IE 5.0 on Win XP; and Safari, Firefox, Opera 8 I think, and IE 5.2 on Mac OS X Jaguar). Text on the site should resize without breaking (zoom-style), with the exception of blue and cream navigation bar text in IE 5.0. Also, if anyone has advice on how to keep the blue navigation from bunching up in IE 5.0, or how to correct the tiny font-size in the cream footer navigation in the same, I'm all ears. Basically any advice you can give me about mechanics will be welcome. Thanks, ~Rebecca __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7b2 testing hub -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
