Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 17 2014 05:45 Crest Christopher :

> When you have a comp to work from you can tell the client, look this is the 
> comp you signed off on, hopefully both you and him are in agreement,

It’s just that it’s very seldom you are in actual mutual agreement because a 
modern web site will not look like the comp. It’s more fruitful to be in a 
agreement of functionality and use case fulfillment. It’s not important that 
the client is satisfied per se, it's the customers of the client that should be 
the focus. If I notice early on the client don’t get this I turn down the 
client. I’m not in the business to sweet talk my clients to satisfy their egos. 
It’s their results that counts and I try to make that clear from the beginning.

In addition working from a comp is very much slower than hand sketches and fast 
coding.

> If you are not a designer then designing in the browser may be more beneficial
If you are a designer working in the browser is more beneficial as well, as 
this practice doesn’t exclude design in any way. Of course, a skillful designer 
that prefers comps may still do a great job. Any developer/Designer can choose 
their tools as they want. But no-one should do it because it’s convenient, but 
because it’s the right fit for them.

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

When you have a comp to work from you can tell the client, look this is 
the comp you signed off on, hopefully both you and him are in agreement, 
anything else will cost extra, this is understood.  If you are not a 
designer then designing in the browser may be more beneficial as you can 
begin to create the site, show the client and take changes into 
consideration from that point onward, note this can also lead to daily 
scrutiny, as the client can say, I want the header larger one day and 
two days later they want it smaller.


In the end maybe both methods are personal preference and debating on 
which is better will just counterattack each other :) Instead of 
debunking your opinion I will accept it, in hopes you accept mine !


Christopher


MiB 
Sunday, November 16, 2014 7:52 PM

That risk is not dependent on the tools but on the designer. Making a 
photoshop comp does not communicate the proper expectations to the 
client. An interactive prototype and opening up your design work to 
daily scrutiny and as a basis for communication makes it possible for 
the client to have input when they want. When they sign off on a 
design direction they can already experience it in the early stages 
and as it is developed.
I make sure in my agreements to define clearly what ”finished” means. 
The client can always change their mind and if they do I amend my 
offer for the extra work involved, if any.


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Crest Christopher 
Saturday, November 15, 2014 9:36 PM
A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
What do you mean by MQ ?
The whole developing in the browser is something I was doing when I 
was a novice at HTML/CSS, back then I was informed, never to do this, 
now it's all the rage, I suppose whatever you prefer.  You should have 
something to base your site on, I would hate to think what kind of 
mess or "sameness" you could develop without something to work from. 
It may be a validated, responsive site but it will be bland, similar 
to having thirty Starbucks in a large radius.


Christopher
Tom Livingston 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:52 AM


Wish I could do that here... :-)



MiB 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:50 AM


I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up 
photoshop comps and started designing directly in the browser. I stil 
do graphics in Photoshop, but just elements and sprites.


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Tom Livingston 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:39 AM
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Crest Christopher
  wrote:

Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about, this
is quite a list as it stands. :)
If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !

  Christopher


A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

Add or remove as content dictates... etc..

This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
each one will not be possible.


__
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 16 2014 03:36 Crest Christopher :

>  I would hate to think what kind of mess or "sameness" you could develop 
> without something to work from. It may be a validated, responsive site but it 
> will be bland, similar to having thirty Starbucks in a large radius. 

That risk is not dependent on the tools but on the designer. Making a photoshop 
comp does not communicate the proper expectations to the client. An interactive 
prototype and opening up your design work to daily scrutiny and as a basis for 
communication makes it possible for the client to have input when they want. 
When they sign off on a design direction they can already experience it in the 
early stages and as it is developed. 
I make sure in my agreements to define clearly what ”finished” means. The 
client can always change their mind and if they do I amend my offer for the 
extra work involved, if any. 

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Chris Rockwell]

MQ = media query; Google will give much more information on "what is MQ"
than someone would likely give in an email thread, try googling "CSS MQ" (
https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=css+MQ).

Regarding "design in the browser": First, I can't imagine any good
arguments against designing in the browser; what was a good idea back then,
has now become a sort of best practice. Second, I work with some designers
that simply prefer to work through problems in Sketch or (less often)
Photoshop/Fireworks.  These designers are competent in HTML/CSS, and often
they end up coding that part of the project, but they just prefer a
different medium to solve the problems.  Use whatever tools help you to
solve the problem in the fastest way.





Chris Rockwell

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Crest Christopher <
crestchristop...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
>
> What do you mean by MQ ?
> The whole developing in the browser is something I was doing when I was a
> novice at HTML/CSS, back then I was informed, never to do this, now it's
> all the rage, I suppose whatever you prefer.  You should have something to
> base your site on, I would hate to think what kind of mess or "sameness"
> you could develop without something to work from. It may be a validated,
> responsive site but it will be bland, similar to having thirty Starbucks in
> a large radius.
>
> Christopher
>
>> Tom Livingston 
>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:52 AM
>>
>>
>> Wish I could do that here... :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> MiB 
>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:50 AM
>>
>>
>> I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up photoshop
>> comps and started designing directly in the browser. I stil do graphics in
>> Photoshop, but just elements and sprites.
>>
>> __
>> css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
>> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
>> List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
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>> Tom Livingston 
>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:39 AM
>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Crest Christopher
>>   wrote:
>>
>>> Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about,
>>> this
>>> is quite a list as it stands. :)
>>> If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !
>>>
>>   Christopher
>>
>>
>> A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> Add or remove as content dictates... etc..
>>
>> This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
>> worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
>> each one will not be possible.
>>
>> Crest Christopher 
>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:18 AM
>> Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about,
>> this is quite a list as it stands. :)
>> If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !
>> Thanks again !
>>
>> Tedd Sperling 
>> Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:06 AM
>> Crest:
>>
>> This is not all, but it's a good start:
>>
>> http://mydevice.io/devices/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> tedd
>>
>> ___
>> tedd sperling
>> t...@sperling.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  __
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>
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.

What do you mean by MQ ?
The whole developing in the browser is something I was doing when I was 
a novice at HTML/CSS, back then I was informed, never to do this, now 
it's all the rage, I suppose whatever you prefer.  You should have 
something to base your site on, I would hate to think what kind of mess 
or "sameness" you could develop without something to work from. It may 
be a validated, responsive site but it will be bland, similar to having 
thirty Starbucks in a large radius.


Christopher

Tom Livingston 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:52 AM


Wish I could do that here... :-)



MiB 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:50 AM


I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up 
photoshop comps and started designing directly in the browser. I stil 
do graphics in Photoshop, but just elements and sprites.


__
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Tom Livingston 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:39 AM
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Crest Christopher
  wrote:

Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about, this
is quite a list as it stands. :)
If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !

  Christopher


A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

Add or remove as content dictates... etc..

This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
each one will not be possible.

Crest Christopher 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 10:18 AM
Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about, 
this is quite a list as it stands. :)

If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !
Thanks again !

Tedd Sperling 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:06 AM
Crest:

This is not all, but it's a good start:

http://mydevice.io/devices/

Cheers,

tedd

___
tedd sperling
t...@sperling.com







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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Tom Livingston]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:50 AM, MiB  wrote:
>
>
> nov 13 2014 16:39 Tom Livingston :
>
>> A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
>> necessary tweaks to the content.
>>
>> Add or remove as content dictates... etc..
>>
>> This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
>> worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
>> each one will not be possible.
>
> I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up photoshop 
> comps and started designing directly in the browser. I stil do graphics in 
> Photoshop, but just elements and sprites.
>


Wish I could do that here... :-)



-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 13 2014 16:39 Tom Livingston :

> A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
> 
> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
> necessary tweaks to the content.
> 
> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
> necessary tweaks to the content.
> 
> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
> necessary tweaks to the content.
> 
> A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
> necessary tweaks to the content.
> 
> Add or remove as content dictates... etc..
> 
> This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
> worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
> each one will not be possible.

I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up photoshop comps 
and started designing directly in the browser. I stil do graphics in Photoshop, 
but just elements and sprites. 

__
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Tom Livingston]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Crest Christopher
 wrote:
> Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about, this
> is quite a list as it stands. :)
> If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !
 Christopher
>


A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
necessary tweaks to the content.

Add or remove as content dictates... etc..

This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
each one will not be possible.

-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Tom Livingston]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Philip Taylor  wrote:
>
>
> Crest Christopher wrote:
>
>> Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about,
>> this is quite a list as it stands. :)
>
>
> Might it not be a more productive use of your time if you designed in such a
> way that your code will render appropriately at /any/
> resolution/screen-size/W-H-Y rather than coding for a discrete set of sizes
> today and having to do a complete re-write tomorrow ?
>

As previously mentioned.

-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

13 nov 2014 kl. 16:23 skrev Philip Taylor :

> and having to do a complete re-write tomorrow ?

and every three months.

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Philip Taylor]

Crest Christopher wrote:


Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about,
this is quite a list as it stands. :)


Might it not be a more productive use of your time if you designed in 
such a way that your code will render appropriately at /any/ 
resolution/screen-size/W-H-Y rather than coding for a discrete set of 
sizes today and having to do a complete re-write tomorrow ?


Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 13 2014 15:06 Tedd Sperling :

> 
> This is not all, but it's a good start:
> 
> http://mydevice.io/devices/


Not to forget most devices also have the height/width flipped in addition when 
holding it on the side.
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

Any other device not on this specific list I'm going to forget about, 
this is quite a list as it stands. :)

If you view pages on a Nintendo DS, sorry !
Thanks again !


Tedd Sperling 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:06 AM
Crest:

This is not all, but it's a good start:

http://mydevice.io/devices/

Cheers,

tedd

___
tedd sperling
t...@sperling.com






Crest Christopher 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:43 PM
I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then 
there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox, 
Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I 
missing any ?


Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do 
they share, including screen sizes ?


Christopher

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

Thanks that is a well organized list :)

Christopher


Tedd Sperling 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:06 AM
Crest:

This is not all, but it's a good start:

http://mydevice.io/devices/

Cheers,

tedd

___
tedd sperling
t...@sperling.com






Crest Christopher 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:43 PM
I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then 
there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox, 
Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I 
missing any ?


Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do 
they share, including screen sizes ?


Christopher

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Tedd Sperling]

Crest:

This is not all, but it's a good start:

http://mydevice.io/devices/

Cheers,

tedd

___
tedd sperling
t...@sperling.com





> On Nov 12, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Crest Christopher  
> wrote:
> 
> I have a general question, how many screens are there ?
> 
> There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then there 
> is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox, Playstation, 
> Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I missing any ?
> 
> Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do they 
> share, including screen sizes ?
> 
> Christopher
> __
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

Breakpoints as in, when the screen size changes the content changes, 
correct ?


Christopher


Tom Livingston 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:54 PM
Build for any size. Place breakpoints where the content needs them.



On Wednesday, November 12, 2014, Crest Christopher 
mailto:crestchristop...@gmail.com>> wrote:



--

Tom Livingston | Senior Front-End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com 




#663399

Crest Christopher 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:43 PM
I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then 
there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox, 
Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I 
missing any ?


Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do 
they share, including screen sizes ?


Christopher

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Tom Livingston]

Build for any size. Place breakpoints where the content needs them.



On Wednesday, November 12, 2014, Crest Christopher <
crestchristop...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a general question, how many screens are there ?
>
> There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then
> there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox,
> Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I missing
> any ?
>
> Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do they
> share, including screen sizes ?
>
> Christopher
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[GJim]

Howdy Crest,

~~~
Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 1:43:15 PM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road 
time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.

My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~

> I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

If Carl Sagan was still alive, he would answer that question for you.

G'Jim c):{-
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 12 2014 19:43 Crest Christopher :

> I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There’re more different types that you even practically can handle 
individually. That’s why media queries have size points and why pixel-perfect 
design on the web is dead. 

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Crest Christopher]

Chris the list does answer the question, although some are almost 
non-existent, for example, etch-a-sketch animator :-).
What are the common ones, and what browser do they share ? For screen 
sizes, you could go up to projection size or put a cap on it at, I 
suppose 4K-8K.


Christopher


Chris Rockwell 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:25 PM
Not completely sure I understand the question: are you asking for how 
many different screen resolutions there are?  Just assume the answer 
is "infinite".  From your list of devices, I immediately notice that 
glasses, projectors, and watches are missing.


Here are some common resolutions, according to wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions


However, if you've ever looked at the stats for a low to medium 
traffic site, that list doesn't cover a fraction of them.


Chris Rockwell


Crest Christopher 
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 1:43 PM
I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then 
there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox, 
Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I 
missing any ?


Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do 
they share, including screen sizes ?


Christopher

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[Chris Rockwell]

Not completely sure I understand the question: are you asking for how many
different screen resolutions there are?  Just assume the answer is
"infinite".  From your list of devices, I immediately notice that glasses,
projectors, and watches are missing.

Here are some common resolutions, according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_resolutions

However, if you've ever looked at the stats for a low to medium traffic
site, that list doesn't cover a fraction of them.

Chris Rockwell

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Crest Christopher <
crestchristop...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a general question, how many screens are there ?
>
> There is your mobile phones (Android, Apple, Lumia, BlackBerry), then
> there is your tablets (iPad, Samsungs etc) followed by TV, XBox,
> Playstation, Nintendo DS, last but not least Desktop/Laptops, am I missing
> any ?
>
> Want to know is what is the common ground in terms of web browsers do they
> share, including screen sizes ?
>
> Christopher
> __
> css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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>
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