Re: [CTRL] Constitutional gun control
-Caveat Lector- Lloyd Miller wrote: -Caveat Lector- No! The Amendment says, in effect: _Because_ a well regulated militia is necessary, _then_ the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed! The arms involved should be those normally used by soldiers in WAR! Assault rifles, if not 50 Caliber Machine guns, should be legal! THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGEDit doesn't matter whythat is what the Bill of Rights says! No licensing, no registration, no prohibition of carrying concealed weapons!The Founding Fathers were all gun nuts! The first thing the British tried to do in Boston was seize supplies of powder and ball! The Founding Fathers knew that liberty must be defended on occasion by just violence! Citizens who misuse guns should be punished severely. Using a gun in a crime of any kind is threatened murder and should result in the death penalty or life in prison. -Original Message- From: Dr. Ken Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 2:48 PM Subject: RE: Constitutional gun control One friend wrote: Ken, But the 2nd Amendment gives a specific "well-regulated" purpose for bearing arms, right? It does not use the word individual. Also, the Supreme Court, or so I have been told, has never interpreted the 2nd amendment to apply on the level of the individual. And rightly so, since the amendment does not speak to the individual, but to congress. 9 of the first 10 amendments were written to prevent congress from passing laws infringing those rights. When the Supreme court ruled some years ago that the second amendment conferred no new rights for the citizens, it was correct! The rights preceded those amendments. Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- Eagle 1 wrote: -Caveat Lector- What is it with guns? Guns don't kill anyone. You are a liar! Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Either support your argument with facts or stop wasting bandwith. Jim Norman The person who pulls the trigger is the responsible party here. This is all about responsibility. No it's NOT about responsibility it's about unnecessary deaths. Socialism all the way. You sir are espousing a communist/socialist point of view. Not about children getting their hands on guns. Parents, teachers, and other care givers are responsible for passing on valid information to children. Adults who purchase guns are expected to act as responsible adults. Unfortunately, we have come into a time where adults do not believe that they are liable. How did this happen? That's not the point. I have been saying all along, that Americans are not mature enough to be trusted with guns. That is why they should be banned. The sooner the better. Here are some other thoughts: Scenario #1: I have a gas stove. I may choose to leave the gas on and asphyxiate someone I don't like. What? Do we now ban natural gas, because it became a 'lethal weapon'? The gas did the dirty deed? So ban it... right? Scenario #2: I see someone I decide I want to do away with... the only way I can find to do this is to run them over with my car. Ban the car, therefore, because it has become a lethal weapon... right? Scenario #3: I may choose to pick up a large rock, and bludgeon someone to death. The rock then becomes a lethal weapon. Which did the damage? The rock? The rock did the damage, therefore we outlaw rocks? Right? This is obviously getting to the ludicrous. But I think anyone can see the point to be made here. If guns are banned, what will it be next? Kitchen knives? Automobiles? Rocks? C'mon! Yeah, I see the point. You are a phony and a liar. These examples are idiotic in the extreme. Rocks and cars were not designed to kill. Anything can be used to kill, but guns are for killing. A " Slippery Slope " argument does not really stand up to actual gun deaths. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Slandering your opponent is NOT a effective debating technique. It only exposes the fact that you have run out of substance. It also illustrates a lack of respect or manners. Banning guns is not going to resolve the problem. Locks on guns are an absolute waste of money as well as time. If someone is breaking into my house, with the intent and immediate threat to kill a member of my household, I don't want to have to fumble around to find a key, to unlock my defense. I want my defense immediate. And since I'm not in the habit of wearing a bullet proof vest day in and day out, the only way to fight back is to fight fire with fire. Fire power, that is. No gun locks? No guns. You guys are cutting your own throats and your playing right into our hands. You are not in a position to argue about restrictions any more. Unless you clowns get smart, you will lose your guns. Total ban! Assuming that through a Con Con, the Federal Constitution is amended to eliminate guns, how long do you think YOUR liberty would last? (Assuming you desire liberty.) Safe use of guns will help, but still will not resolve the problem overall. Leaving the Constitution alone, and as it stands is what the forefathers intended; bearing arms for personal protection, not for murder. There will be amendments to the 2nd Amendment. It is outdated. Not without a Constitutional Convention. Banning guns is definitely not the answer. Education and RESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR is. Yeah right that's the solution. And it's much easier to change society's behavior than to ban guns. Right? I think you got it now. Keep that thought in your mind. Laws, if there are any to be improved upon, should be sending a very serious message to the general public that irresponsible use of firearms is not acceptable and is not tolerated in a civil society. Following through with appropriate penal codes should be the mandate. Guns will be banned because gun nuts live in the past. You are my best ally. There are no gun nuts. There is only ANTI-gun nuts. And you are the socialist poster child. Keep up the good work! Jim Norman Keep up the good work. Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to th
Re: [CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.2/2
-Caveat Lector- nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- The fact is that people with guns kill, and when you take them away, the death rate drops like a rock. You SAY it's a fact, but you cite no proof. In fact, a number of books, one by a professor at Florida State University, has proven your statement incorrect. There is more than ample proof that the death rate goes up when gun ownership goes down! Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Oops! #3,519 -- NATO Bombs KLA
-Caveat Lector- Das GOAT wrote: -Caveat Lector- Does anyone here still believe in "smart bombs," or even in smart bombers? NATO Admits Hitting Albanian Post It looks like some remedial classes are in order. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.
-Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether they be pro-gun or anti-gun, most people would acknowledge that mankind has certain, Inalienable Rights. Not at all. Rights are a conceptual legal concept. If everybody plays along, you have rights. If most, or even many people don't play along, you have bupkes. There is nothing inalienable about legalisms in the real world. The above is a most revealing statement. It shows that Nurev has the same understanding of rights as did Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all the other mass murders of the past (and of the future). They have no concept of the agreement among mature people to recognize the humanity of others and not treat them as resources to be exploited and killed if they get in the way. The very basis of the concept of "rights" comes from our innate understanding that others value their lives and we cannot take that life without doing harm to our very soul. (There has been some postings on this list by a retired military officer about the difficulties in training young men to kill which go into this more deeply). We look at ourselves and others and realize that others have a life which they value as much as we value our own. While Nurev may claim to wish to ban guns for the good of humanity, it is obvious from his replies that this is only a cover. His replies often show a deep hatred for any who disagree with him and often are made up of threats of harm (of course from others, not himself) to that person and an unseemly desire to see that threat of violence come to fruition. In an earlier post to this list, I suggested to those who wish to end the "culture of violence" that instead of repealing the 2nd amendment, that the first amendment might be modified to prohibit the showing of violence in the media. Did anyone one of those supposedly so concerned about the "culture of violence" respond? Of course not. They are not interested in this because they, in fact, are happy to see this violence in the media and in our society. They want to see this, because they know that it is necessary for their campaign to disarm the American people. Does anyone doubt that they are happy to hear of the killings? Look what Nurev writes later about the increasing number of people who might join his cause: "Oh yeah??? Wanna bet? This country has one, maybe two more massacres left before it becomes a groundswell". Does that not sound like someone who is looking forward to more such murders? On several occasions Nurev has threatened his critics with a future revolution of the people. He seems to enjoy fantasizing about a future revolution against the "capitalists" who he seems to fear will take over the government. (They haven't already?) Yet here he wants to take away their guns. What kind of sense does that make? Of course, Nurev probably has a nice useless government job and really doesn't care a bit about the "people". Howard Davis Clap, Clap, clap, clap, clap,...Howard, this is a most thoughtful and accurate analysis. I only wish I had said it. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]
-Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: -Caveat Lector- Jim Norman wrote: -Caveat Lector- Ric Carter wrote: -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: nurev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott Brown wrote: Robert Tatman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of being massively flamed, I am compelled by a sense of intellectual honesty to propose that the time has come to repeal the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Personally, I feel it would be a waste of my time to devote the time and energy that is necessary to properly convey how your proposal dissgusts me. So what I will say is this, I hope that you remember your decision if we are deprived of our right to defend ourselves against tyranny. In the remaining part of this year, and the next 3 or 4, you will see the error of this ignorance. You may be interested to know that the 2nd amendment confers no rights on the citizens of the United States. Neither does the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th, 7th, 8th, ect. When you read any of those mentioned, please realize that they are not referring to the citizens. Those amendments specifically refer to the government. They forbid government from passing laws infringing those rights. To repeal the 2nd simple means that the pre-existing right to keep and bear arms still exist. All you're removing is the ability of the government to pass laws infringing those rights. The rights still predate the constitution but you know how the government has such a problem playing by the rules. By the way, which one of the next bill of right amendments are you willing to drop? Free Speech? Freedom of Religion? Do you realize that all of the bill of rights is resting on the 2nd? No, you say? Name one other country that had it's weapons removed from the citizens that survived as a Republic, or even a Democracy. Jim Norman This amendment is 200 years old. It was written for a different society with a tiny population. All the amendments are old, and were written for a country destined to grow. They was no mention about how these laws should change due to growth. If fact growth only exacerbated the problems. What ever problems that existed then, still exist today. You fail to respond to the challenge "Name one other country that had it's weapons removed from the citizens that survived as a Republic, or even a Democracy." This is a different world. A different society with different problems. The more things change, the more they stay the same! A different society? I agree. Different problems? I don't think so. Why do you think the 10 commandments are still revaent today? This America is way overpopulated in certain places and suffers from many injustices that result in a considerable segment of the population mentally unfit for the responsible use of firearms. Not even close. The considerable segment is the normal people who would never think about pulling a gun except to defend them selves. These idiots who shoot up schools are such a infinitesimal fraction that it is also insignificant. If it were not for the press giving so much coverage in an attempt to promote the anti-gun agenda, you and I would never have heard about this. When you add that fact to the additional problem of accidental deaths due to firearms, you get an appalling death toll. It's not appalling. accidental deaths are small compaired to other other forms of accidental death. It's really absurd for gun nuts to keep pointing to the 2nd Am. It has become irrelevant in modern America. It's not absurd and you don't have to be a nut to keep a gun. All you have to do is want to protect yourself and your family. The 2nd amendment will become irrelevant when a Constitutional Convention is held, a law is passed in both houses repealing the 2nd, that law then presented to the States so that if 3/4 of them accept, then the law can be changed. Until then, it is still the LAW OF THE LAND. You think guns are cool and I don't. I think guns are nothing more than a tool. No different than walking to my tool box and picking up a hammer. I am as careful with that hammer as I am with a gum. Cool is not even a consideration. Accuracy is more important. When enough people think like me, guns will be removed from this sick society, and we'll go from there. If the carpenter is sick, lets take his hammer away? Is that the idea? It might be a mistake or it might not. But you gun nuts will not prevent the rest of us from finding out. I think you Anti-gun nuts have a long way to go. Maybe by then you will see the light and begin doing something constructive ...like helping to solve the social problems. The Colorado killings have turned the tide. I think you guys see the writing on the wall. To accommodate those of you who just can't live with that, I would set aside a &qu
Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]]
-Caveat Lector- Scott Brown wrote: -Caveat Lector- nurev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Scott Brown wrote: -Caveat Lector- Robert Tatman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- At the risk of being massively flamed, I am compelled by a sense of intellectual honesty to propose that the time has come to repeal the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. There is no intellectual honesty in this statement. Intellectual honesty has nothing to do with amending our constitution. And so then, what other instrument of death would you ban next? Cars? How 'bout drugs? Knives? Scott Brown Disgusting or not you'll have to deal with it. Many of us are sick and tired of your mantra Thank God, you're in the minority. Most real Americans believe in the law of the land and many died defending same. I think we are all sick and tired of crime created by .3% of the population causing others to want to pass laws not affecting the law breakers, but the rest of the population. Don't you know these kids broke many gun laws already on the books? What makes you think that passing new laws or outlawing guns with affect criminals? That's what makes criminals, criminals! They break laws! . We would like to get guns out of daily life and see what happens. If the death rate drops ( which it will ) then that's the way it will stay. It only leads to despotism. look in your history books. Can you name the last country that gave up guns that its citizens are still free and crime did not go up? No guns. It's going to happen. There is nothing you can do about it. And its about time. Fortunately, we have more mature, level headed people making laws in this country. Joshua2 You can believe that making guns illegal is an eventuality all you want. Why is it that the folks that claim nobody needs guns are also most often the people who believe our government has the interest of the people in in mind? Just like believing that you can disarm the public, this is pure fantasy. I will tell you this, if you think you are going to take away my right to defend myself and others as well, why don't you just try it and see what happens. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different
Re: [CTRL] Flaw in Capitalist system]
-Caveat Lector- "M.A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- nurev wrote: Ah, here is the crux of the problem. This person, and and capitalists in general would like everyone to take on their belief system. And likeYou don't? Why are you trying to make everybody think as you do? Individualism, individual rights, and the ever so lovely PROPERTY IS PRIOR TO LAW. this is what our country was built on! These twisted apostles of greed and arrogant stupidity are just simply selfish bastards inventing justifications for their sorry assed selves. Sounds like you're mad because you don't have any. Who in their right mind would claim that " property is prior to law?" Not only isn't this factual in all of human evolution, but it's a pathetic indication of a warped and sick personality. Who in their right, or left, mind would claim that "property is NOT prior to law?" Not only isn't this factual in all of human evolution, but it's a pathetic indication of a warped and sick personality. JN DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]
-Caveat Lector- [snip] Tyranny was the sole reason the 2nd Amendment came about, idiot... June You go girl...! Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] A Modest Proposal]
-Caveat Lector- Ric Carter wrote: -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: nurev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott Brown wrote: Robert Tatman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of being massively flamed, I am compelled by a sense of intellectual honesty to propose that the time has come to repeal the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Personally, I feel it would be a waste of my time to devote the time and energy that is necessary to properly convey how your proposal dissgusts me. So what I will say is this, I hope that you remember your decision if we are deprived of our right to defend ourselves against tyranny. In the remaining part of this year, and the next 3 or 4, you will see the error of this ignorance. You may be interested to know that the 2nd amendment confers no rights on the citizens of the United States. Neither does the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th, 7th, 8th, ect. When you read any of those mentioned, please realize that they are not referring to the citizens. Those amendments specifically refer to the government. They forbid government from passing laws infringing those rights. To repeal the 2nd simple means that the pre-existing right to keep and bear arms still exist. All you're removing is the ability of the government to pass laws infringing those rights. The rights still predate the constitution but you know how the government has such a problem playing by the rules. By the way, which one of the next bill of right amendments are you willing to drop? Free Speech? Freedom of Religion? Do you realize that all of the bill of rights is resting on the 2nd? No, you say? Name one other country that had it's weapons removed from the citizens that survived as a Republic, or even a Democracy. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Electric/Electromagnetic
-Caveat Lector- Mark McHugh wrote: -Caveat Lector- Do you know how a fluorescent light bulb works, Colleen? An electric current is passed from one end of the tube to the other. Nope, the current is passed through a heater element on each end of the tube. The heater element excites the gas in the tube. The excited gas is what gives off light. Jim The some of the eletrons' energy is absorbed by the gas enclosed inside the tube and reradiated by the gas atoms in a visible wavelength. Nope, again. It's a little more complicated than that. Energy is coming off your antennae, I thought this was a reception antennae. Antennae that receive do not create any RF energy by its self. They must be connected to a RF transmitter. You may hold a fluorescent light next to the antennae of a RF transmitter and when that transmitter is keyed, you will see the fluorescent light glow. exciting the halogen and producing the familiar glow. halogen requires more heat than a fluorescent light to cause light emission. I have never experimented with Halogen, but I'll bet it would require RF energy as well to cause it to give off light. Jim It's all an energy game. Some you can see, some you can't. -- Mark McHugh One Step Beyond! DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Limitations on E.O.'s?
-Caveat Lector- Colleen Jones wrote: -Caveat Lector- Years and years ago, a friend of mine gave me the huge Ohio Revised Code in one bookI read it all, but got really bored when it came to the banking and money stuff, where most of the dirty work is usually done - securities and all that. There was one law on the books then, that I still remember and did not question or wonder why: (Actually, believe was two laws). One law forbid Greek Fraternities.. Other Law forbid anyone other than a Mason from wearing Masonic regalia(and the word I think was regalia). I do not know if this law is still on books; but would have to be under Chapter 29 criminal code.I ran across it again in 1969 when I filed the soothsaying without a license charge against Jeanne Dixon, the Tokyo Rose of Washington Square.but again, do not believe any of these laws were repealed and still stand. Why would it be illegal to wear Masonic Regalia..yet on the other hand, why would it bann fraternities using Greek letters etc. All these fraternities use the King James Bible for their rituals.just like the Mafia. Do not have this huge law book anymore; and have no access to Ohio code at this point in time. Colleen Colleen, if Ohio is like Florida, the statues are now on line. You might try a search like 'Ohio Statues'. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Can any verify this?
-Caveat Lector- "Howard R. Davis III" wrote: -Caveat Lector- Colleen Jones wrote: -Caveat Lector- JFK according to Jim Marrs.had on his desk a signed Executive Action Order which would have caused the Federal Reserve System to shudder - it was alleged when his father was told by his son what he was going to do, his father said "They will kill youthey will never let you do that"..and they did.the day he signed this order, he was on his way to Dallas. I had a friend once who claimed to have been a Navy Seal in 1963 assigned to Kennedy as a body guard. He said that he was with him in Florida visiting Joe Kennedy and the argument quoted from above. He said that he was shipped off to Vietnam the next day. Howard Davis That executive order is, I believe, EO#2. It essentially authorized congress to revert to using United States Notes for its debt rather than continuing to use the Federal Reserve Note. The significance is that a United States note has no interest added and the United States can retrieve those notes when ever it wants. The Federal Reserve notes DO incur interest and that is how the National Debt is generated. Do you remember the United States Notes? We used them for a long time. They had a red seal and red ID number. This is what supplanted the "National Currency" note which was issued by a Federal Reserve bank the National Currency note could be redeemed in "lawful Money". First thing Johnson did when he got in office was to issue EO 4 (or so) and retract EO 11112, thereby saving the Fed. .Jim Norman == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] ALERT! URGENT: CONTACT YOUR SENATORS FOR NATIONALMISSILEDEFENSE SYSTEM
-Caveat Lector-
MICHAEL SPITZER wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
On Sat, 13 Mar 1999, Ric Carter wrote:
Ric "if you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" Carter
Man, I love that! And OH SO TRUE (I recall my first gun
purchases...altho never really feeling I needed one...within
a few weeks I was wondering how the hell I ever got along
without one, pulling it out and running around my yard at night
NUDE with gun in hand, at every sound, real or not...didn't
matter:)
Ric, where did you get this "if you have a hammer..." thing
from, i.e., is it original??
Thanks,
Mike
REPLY: The quote I heard as a boy was, "If the only tool you have is a hammer,
all your problems look like nails."
Jim Norman
=
Kaddish, Kaddish, Kaddish, YHVH, TZEVAOT
FROM THE DESK OF:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Mike Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
Shalom, A Salaam Aleikum, and to all, A Good Day.
=
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
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frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Monica is you. She is just like you.
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 3/12/99 10:03:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Linda Tripp is an unprincipled and vindictive creep placed in the White House by George Bush. She accepted her mission with the Democratic White House as one in which she should cause as much dissention as possible. When they finally realized what she was and sent her to the Pentagon (retaining her four-star general's salary), she continued on her mission. I have a lot of friends working in Public Affairs for the military. None of them are paid as much as Tripp is getting. Of course, none of them are taping their friends for Ken Starr. They just don't have what it takes to get ahead. Prudy Prudy, I would hope you could support that with some sort of evidence. Surely, you are not just "Proselyzting propaganda" with no proof, are you? I would think that if you have been paying attention, you would be well aware of what Ms. Tripp has accomplished. As for her fantastic salary, just check with OPM and find out how many folks in public affairs are making over 90,000 pa. Prudy Reply: It depends on what level you are at and what your job position. If you are saying that Tripp was paid that much because she was working for Mr. Starr and her "job" was to tape the slut, then that is a pile of dung and you have no proof of such. The job Tripp has/had, did not just occur last year. She has earned a similar salary for a long time. As far as what she has accomplished, I applaud her for having the guts to take on the system. She was right and stood by her principles. A lessor person would have said, "f--- it" and found another job. So, now what? Is this where you start calling me names and insulting me to change the subject? I'm sorry, that might not be your style and it might not be called for, but it seems to be the procedure when someone on this list disagrees with another. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Monica is you. She is just like you.
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 3/13/99 4:11:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The job Tripp has/had, did not just occur last year. She has earned a similar salary for a long time. As far as what she has accomplished, I applaud her for having the guts to take on the system. She was right and stood by her principles. A lessor person would have said, "f--- it" and found another job. So, now what? Is this where you start calling me names and insulting me to change the subject? I'm sorry, that might not be your style and it might not be called for, but it seems to be the procedure when someone on this list disagrees with another. Jim Norman Ms. Tripp was a presidential appointee apparently. I've wondered only how she remained at the same salary when she went to work for the Pentagon. It has never been my impression that the White House staff are in Civil Service. I know that the travel office people (in spite of all the hoopla) serve at the "pleasure of the president" just the way the White House chef does. There used to be a rule that when you went from one Civil Service job to another that paid less, you retained the salary you were making for two years, but Ms. Tripp has gone long past that. I have heard nothing about her receiving a reduction in salary. Ninety thousand a year may not seem like much to you, but in Civil Service circles, it's a dream come true, especially in the Public Affairs field. I know of no reason why Ms. Tripp would give up a job making that kind of money. Monica Lewinsky may be looking at five or six million, but Ms. Tripp has not had those expectations or if she has, no one has made them public. Ms. Tripp did not to my knowledge "take on the system." She simply got a good friend in ghastly trouble in order to take vengence on the Clinton White House. She's really not a very nice person. That's not a criminal offense, at least not yet. Prudy REPLY: Thank you Prudy for the nice response. This was not what I expected based on my previous experience. I know we will probably never agree on Tripp, but I respect her for what she did. I think she was covering her butt with the tape recording, something that most Clinton's ex's have done. Even the guy who lived across from Flowers taped Clinton coming (no pun intended) and going and it almost cost him his life. Neither of us know what was in the minds of these players, nor the motivations that precipitated their actions, but if I were in the shoes of Ms. Tripp, it would take a huge pair of cojone's to get me to go public with all that soap opera stuff. With respect, Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Monica is you. She is just like you.
-Caveat Lector- "Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 3/12/99 8:17:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, lloyd@A- ALBIONIC.COM writes: Linda Tripp is a principled whistle blower, confronting illegitimate power under difficult circumstances, Linda Tripp is an unprincipled and vindictive creep placed in the White House by George Bush. She accepted her mission with the Democratic White House as one in which she should cause as much dissention as possible. When they finally realized what she was and sent her to the Pentagon (retaining her four-star general's salary), she continued on her mission. I have a lot of friends working in Public Affairs for the military. None of them are paid as much as Tripp is getting. Of course, none of them are taping their friends for Ken Starr. They just don't have what it takes to get ahead. Prudy Prudy, I would hope you could support that with some sort of evidence. Surely, you are not just "Proselyzting propaganda" with no proof, are you? Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THIS is Wild: CIA Says Pres a Security Risk
-Caveat Lector- Mark McHugh wrote: -Caveat Lector- Jim Norman Writes: The President and Vice-President are elected by electors, not voters, appointed by the executive committee's of the respective parties. The popular vote has no standing at law. And there is no legislation authorizing a "electoral College". Jim NormanSamantha 'Smith' wrote: [snip] The President is elected by a majority of the vote. The Presidency represents one of the three branches of government. Intel agencies and the Pentagon are supposed to be subservient to the elected government, not in charge of them. The President can be removed by impeachment, resignation or death. It is not anyone's right or responsibility to decide which level of clearance the President should hold. The whole notion is ridiculous. However, we are a country run by intel, so why pretend otherwise? Let's just call it as it is. We're not the United States of America, we are The Pawns of the Black Operators. The POBO. Let's just get the wording down right. Snidely, Samantha Leaders come and go--the Bureaucracy is eternal. I guess it comes down to whether we care for the survival of a specific individual or the longtime survival of a country. Regulation is a necessity for survival of organizations/societies/individuals, be it self-regulation (rare) or external. I know I wouldn't trust high explosives in the hands of some of my friends. Information can be seen as "high explosives". You have to be trusted with it before you are allowed to handle it. Ideally, the Prez has earned our trust, having received his "license to lead" via the vote. He gets to install his people as Secretaries of Departments. In reality, he leads using information filtered by these GS/bureacratic filled Departments. These Departments are probably filled with the agents of your "Black Operators". -- Mark McHugh Enjoying my vacation! DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Mysterious epidemic investigated (private)
-Caveat Lector- I would appreciate any information you have on making collodial silver. Email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Jim Norman Samatha 'Smith' wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-02-25 09:21:18 EST, you write: 1. Colloidal Silver--a pretty miraculous antibacterial, antiviral colloid that you can buy in the health food store or make at home for yourself. (You should be able to purchase this for about $15 for 4 oz. or you can contact me for directions how to make it yourself.) Thank you for the tips. I have some colloidal silver but didn't know elderberry extract would be helpful and never heard of Pulsatilla. I'd really like to know how to make my own colloidal silver -- it's so expensive. Thanks, Samantha DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Virus Alert
-Caveat Lector- As an additional warning: I just completed the unpleasant tast of reformating and reloading all my software on my computor. Seems I got a virus that, without warning, wiped my first sector of my hard drive. No bells, no stars, no gigling, just boom. The Alpha nerd at Home Office computors said, "dude, the drive checks, man... you gotta reload." It was not fun. Next stop for me is a RAID 1. Jim Danny Cox wrote: -Caveat Lector- Dear Wanderers: Let's keep this virus in mind when receiving/sending any attachments to the list. At least it has a nice name! ;) L/L I notice that a few members of this list send almost everything as attachments, even simple text files. Why not eliminate attachments to the extent possible and then we won't have to worry about accidently opening a *.exe file. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Simple Poll
-Caveat Lector- Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- Dear Friends: What Political Party do you belong to? Republican __x__ Democrat Other Do you consider yourself? _x___ Conservative Liberal Moderate Do you believe that President Clinton is Guilty? _x___ Yes No Do you believe he should have been removed from office? __x__ Yes No Any further Comments: He should also incarcerated, along with Algore, Newt G., and others. Please fill these questions out ASAP and send back to me and I'll send results out later? God Bless Bill DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] List Participation
Teo One Thousand wrote: -Caveat Lector- I am for seeing more substantive discussion. I would like to see more people getting involved here and posting their comments on things conspiratorial. There are certain few who seem to dominate the list with certain pet areas of concern (this is not bad because we get a lot of good information, and I am guilty of this as well), and that tends to make people uncomfortable talking about other issues. In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements myself which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that I am likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy). Some people fear that their comments will be relegated to the trash heap or that they will be attacked, personally, and shy away from posting. I wish they wouldn't. Some of the list rules regarding the avoidance of personal attacks are in place for that very reason. I hope that more people will contribute to the list and we can get a broader view of what is going on in the wide world we live in. More information, from more people gives us better insight into what is going on behind the scenes and lets us see more clearly the conspiracy that we are all tracking down. SO, come on people post a word or two, get you feet wet and give it a try! Teo100 To Teo100, I subscribe to the list exactly for the education of what others post. I do not post because I have two full time jobs and no time to research. I have posted some of my personal memories to this list and got a "taste" of yours, and others, thurst for truth and empathy. snip-- "In addition I make pretty dogmatic pronouncements myself which tend to cause others to think twice before posting comments that I am likely to take an opposite stance on (such as the UFO phenomenon, alien abduction, mind control theories, and religious conspiracy)." Jim Don't give your self too much credit since nothing you could say would ever prevent me from expressing any thought or idea that I believe in. snip-- Some people fear that their comments will be relegated to the trash heap or that they will be attacked, personally, and shy away from posting. This was the first thing I noticed about this list. I Only had to read 5 post to realize this. I've read a number of your post. Expecially with Hawk, and anybody else who's ideas are not the same as yours. You should run for public office. You have all the double speak skills. Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] List Participation
-Caveat Lector- Teo One Thousand wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 2/2/99 10:13:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was the first thing I noticed about this list. I Only had to read 5 post to realize this. I've read a number of your post. Expecially with Hawk, and anybody else who's ideas are not the same as yours. You should run for public office. You have all the double speak skills. Jim Jim; What is it that you are trying to imply? Are you saying that I deliberately run other off who disagree with me? I would say hogwash, if you believe that. I appreciate hearing from everyone, even if their opinions differ radically from my own. That is not to say that I will not vehemently defend my views. It is never done with the intent of silencing the other person. Teo1000 I have no problem with anyone defending their views. But you do intend to silence your debators. It is done by deflecting the honest debate with name calling, bating, and labeling. (Kinda like the latest with Samantha) When that doen't work, then the offending party is ejected from the list (like Hawk). And yes, I know. Its your's and ken's list and if I don't like it I can unsubscribe. Thanks, I'll just hang around and listen. Jim DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Barb Witt wrote: -Caveat Lector- At 07:05 PM 1/17/99 +, Snobird wrote: -Caveat Lector- Congratulations, Hawk! You have made it to my Filter-Delete list. I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until something convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith. IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see that. You are clearly a no-win kinda guy. Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. sno0wl I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It is probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. Barb Jim Norman: Thanks Barb, for a excellent thought, expertly crafted and clear to its meaning. You have helped crystalize in my mind the words to express a nagging "what's wrong with this picture" feeling as I followed this thread. I couldn't understand why Hawk was castigated for simply expressing ideas. Jim Norman DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Living in corporate America.
-Caveat Lector- Barb Witt wrote: -Caveat Lector- At 09:34 PM 1/16/99 -0800, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- "M.A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would estimate that of over 50% of all consumer manufactured goods are coming from Communist China. Why? Well, because the capitalist built their latest and best manufacturing plants there? Why? Cheap Labour. Huge Market. MJ: How long has labor been cheap abroad? Why is it only in recent years we have had a (purported) mass exodus? Could it be the regulatory load which has escalated over the past recent years? Regard$, --MJ What do you mean " purported?" Where is America's manufacturing base? Did it disappear down a rabbit hole? There's nothing purported about American corporations leaving in droves. This is bullshit on your part and you know it. You take a foolish position, you have to defend it by flinging bovine droppings and red herrings. American companies had been buying their way out of regulations more and more in the years before leaving these shores for foreign labor. As a matter of fact, they got tax breaks for doing it. This could only happen because they got more complete control of Congress. American corporations are owned by the Rich and their managerial sub- class. These two groups have a long history of theft, violence, crime, and treason against the citizens, workers, and country of the USA. Only a twisted Libertarian would blame regulations as the reason for industrial flight. Everyone with any sense at all knows it's for profit. Workers and nation be damned. Joshua2 From Jim Norman: May I add the government in many cases subsidise and assist in the movements. In Florida, the Lazard (sp?) Brothers and the Duda Brothers were assisted in moving their agriculture production to Mexico. The government arranged the purchase of their respective properties in south Florida, interfaced with the Mexican authorities in arranging suitable authorizations and properties in Mexico, and assisted with the expense of moving. Jim Norman The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. -- Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787. Two pertinent articles (The Global Hand and Technology Hoax), from the April 21, 1997 edition of Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/97/0421/5908085a.htm Barb DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .
-Caveat Lector- Agent Smiley wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/17/99 10:20:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't get it. How could the driver shoot the president without anyone seeing him? Did I read this correctly, or did I misinterpret what you wrote? Please clarify, this is very interesting. Thanks-JOHN In every mainstream airing I have seen of the famous second shot, a zoom is shown and NOT the broader view. Only once have I seen this film outside the mainstream media and here the whole view was visible. Incidentally, from what I have heard, the 3 or 4 individuals actually standing near enough to see this are no longer alive. The gun rested on the driver's shoulder and at the fatal moment, it was only slightly lifted and aimed. A second or two prior to this, the secret service agent that sat in the passenger seat is seen to look calmly back at the president, who had already been shot once, and calmly turn back around speaking something to the driver. Within a second, the driver lifts his gun from his right shoulder, where it had been held by his left hand while his left arm lay cross ways across his chest. There was very little movement on his part. When the president is being shot at, anyone looking for any sense of what in the hell is going on would be searching the crowd for a gunman or looking at the president to see if he is alright. They are unlikely to notice the DRIVER lifting his hand about four inches. In this version of the film, a cloud of gas is seen being expelled from the barrel of the gun and at that exact instant Kennedy's face is removed from his head. I suspect that when the agent in the passenger seat was speaking to the driver that he was giving the location of the president's head in relation to the driver. Isn't it interesting that during the whole shooting spree, the driver never thought to push the pedal to the metal and get the hell out of there. Even without this key view that I speak of, it is obvious that all of the secret service agents were calm throughout. When Jackie is seen to be making a break for it, a secret service agent is seen sternly direcing her to get back in it. Was the limo really deemed the safest place for her, given the fact that the shots were all being directed at it? It could be, IF the secret service already knew that the job had been completed. Go ahead folks. Bring it on. Start with character assination and name calling and attempts at discrediting. I challenge all to tell me why I shouldn't report this here. Incidentally, I backed this video up and forwarded it enough times to witness this about forty times. Some time ago, someone sent me to a website that was supposed to let me know what really happened in response to an allusion that the driver was complicit and a murderer, a political assassin. At this site, I saw an image of the very situation I here describe and I saw the gun. Apparently, the photo was not intended. I reported to the webmaster that that very photo contradicted his take on it and now the website no longer exists. smile Jim Norman: Within hours of the reported shooting of Kennedy, a retired Naval Intelligence officer, Nord Davis Jr. of Compton, S.C. flew to Dallas and began retrieving evidence. In a un-retouched photo (the copy of same that appeared in Life was airbrushed according to Mr. Davis) he clearly outlined a additional shooter, dressed in a black or dark knee length coat, wearing a business man's hat. He stood there with his hand outstretched in a shooting position. He is, in Mr. Davis's opinion, responsible for the shooting death of the woman who walked in his line of fire and who's blood was sprayed on the limousine's left side escort motorcycle officers, left side. The significance of the officer receiving blood splatters on his left side is that the only place it could have come from is from the sidewalk area to the left of the limo. Additionally, the right rear escort was killed with a series of shots to the head and chest. If you consider that the sidewalk shooter did fire at the limo, his direct line of fire would explain this evidence. In the Grand jury testimony, each witness described the shots NOT as a single report as a bolt action rifle would give, but a multiple report sound similar to a machine gun, or machine pistol. when asked to describe the sound most witnesses said "dat-dat-dat-dat-dat" or "da-da-da-daow" When questioned as to whether this was an echo from the surrounding buildings, each witness said no, the echo's came latter. Mr. Davis produced a publication with not to clear photographs, but the man in the knee length coat was clearly visible, as was the woman lying dead on the side walk. If you look at the life magazine front page, the woman is gone, except for her pocket book that appears to be suspended in the air or on the sidewalk. If you wis
Re: [CTRL] Republican vs Democrat
-Caveat Lector- If fact there is no difference between the parties. It's as if they are all the same, exactly as you stated. How is it we can find no honorable men to run for an office and when we do find a good man, we can't get him elected because the local party boss won't put him on the ballot, or the electorate fails to recognize the integrity in the candidate, or the election is plain stolen because of voter fraud? It seems like a dark, deep hole. Good article, Jim Norman J FROST wrote: -Caveat Lector- The republicians are evil they do this The democrats are evil, they do that Ah, yes the old team spirit you were brainwashed with in school serves the party bosses well. By getting idiot groupies to join one of their teams, each side of stooges are fighting against the other. While the idiot supporters continue to defend their own gods and point out the evil in the other devils, they become so blind to see all political parties are nothing but scum ball crooks. Begin to make a list of all the crooked/immoral deeds both parties have been/are involved and know the prisons are full of common people who have done exactly the same things as the party gods you worship. Republicans nor democrats have any principals, the only reason any of them have become a member of either party is not by the party doctrine, but because it was their chance to get rich making the idiots pick their cotton. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- I began training at three and four for picking beans and berries. By five, I operated a tractor pulling sleds in the fields. By Six, I could cut a 400 acre field of corn stalks in two days operating from sun to sun. I began training in the blacksmith shop at seven, making barrel staves and rings. If you planned on eating, you had to work. Jim norman "Carlene M. Wojahn" wrote: -Caveat Lector- The slave narratives are not about feelings. They are matter of fact in tone and the descriptions of conditions are well buttressed by related events. It is all but mind numbingly horrific to realize how these folks lived. It's true that they were in their teens but in those conditions, work began in earnest at age 7 or 8. My grandpa died when my dad was 5...he started selling papers then..there were thirteen in the house...children and they all contrubuted...a brother of mine started at 9and guess what they weren't slaves nor were they black. The slaves were adults in their teen years. Actually, even when i lived through the adolescent years during the 1940s, You were expected to be a fully functioning and responsible adult by age 18 during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. No earlier right after they graduated from eighth grade.. Carlene DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)]
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: --and the north treated them with respect? The South had farms The North had Manufacturing. And professional positions not open to them in the south... What professional positions? There were lots of positions not available to lots of people. You make it sound like "if you were white you got the big professional job with the big bucks." and if you were black, you got nothing. This is bunk. You'll have to come up with something better than this. I don't even think you believe this. It may help to remember that the North, after winning the Civil war did not free their slaves as they forced the South to. And Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves until he needed an issue to keep France and Spain out of the war. You remember that part don't you? I know very well that Lincoln was not 'The Great Emancipator' that history has made him out to be...and I also know that the Emancipation Proclamation was made to keep ENGLAND from entering the war on the side of the Confederacy, NOT France and Spain...France and Spain had no overt interest in the war, while England was extremely dependent on the cotton imported from the American South... ---Well now, we have a start... 1. I don't know why you say black men were not able bodied; _I_ didn't...YOU seemed to imply it in your statement... nope, I have nothing but respect for the folks I grew up with. You also didn't answer my question regarding how many blacks got positions of importance in the factories and offices, positions vacated by able-bodied white men who were off to war... ---I don't know. That was not my job. I do know that there were many free black men who owned large successful farms who would not give two jerks for a 'position of importance'. 2. None of the folks (including whites) who lived in Claxton were capable of supervising or managing a factory;and So the only thing you can state with any authority is what you observed as a very young child who was a member of a race which had more privileges than those of the black race, processed thru a child's perspective, and limited to a very specific (and not normal) era, and a small geographical area which was not necessarily indicative of the South as a whole... ---Now we're making progress. The things I state with any authority is what I observed , first hand over a period of 14 years total, as a very yound child (who worked 10 hours a day and had no childhood) thru puberty as a member of the white race... and limited to a very specific era and a small geographical area which was indicative of simular area's all over this country. There was area's of racial violence, in some parts of the country, but it was not the normal. Lots of kid's, like me, were raised in this fashion. Having a 'position of authority' was not important to any of us. Having a good rifle to shoot squirrels with and a good sharp knife were higher priority. My uncle would not go the the outhouse without a sharp knife. Winning the turkey shoot at Thanksgiving and having brag'gin rights til the next shoot was more important. Survival was big too. Thank you for your considerate language and attitude. My purpose for providing my background as my bonifide's in this debate is not to change you or your convictions. It is to demonstrate that there are two truths. The truths we believe because we were taught, or through propaganda by the media; and then the real world truths. The truth we live that shapes our character. The very same that exist in the polls that Clinton is so fond of quoting. While the polls say Clinton hung the moon, I personally can not find any one who believes that. And by the way, do you know why Clinton did not inhale? June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a
Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison
-Caveat Lector- Dear Jerry, I remember those times that you speak of in the LATE fifty's early sixty's. That was almost twenty years difference from MY experience. The events that happened had nothing to do with MY experience. In my post, I indicated I lived in Claxton, Georgia. That's a whole different country than Alabama. Most of the beatings and killings were done by the Police force, and a very, very, tiny segment of the whites. Any way, calling me a liar or attacking me for simply reporting my memories of how things really was simply because they don't align with your perception of the truth is what does not wash. I can remember the one place that Blacks and whites together met. At the country store, on Saturday or after church on Sunday. It was called the "porch meeting". the General store had a big front porch with rockers and barrels and wood crates to sit on. It even had a wood stove on one side for when it got cold. No body went in side our of respect for the owner of the store. Blacks and Whites sat and smoked, chewed, carved; talked about the weather; talked about nothing and talked about everything. And yes, Blacks sat on one side and Whites sat on the other side some times, and other times they just sat on the porch with their legs hanging off. No one sat on the steps. Yes, maybe we were isolated from the media's attempt to divide the races and keep them at each others throats, but you see, we were all we had! We were our community. It made no difference whether we LIKED blacks or not, and it made no difference whether THEY LIKED Whites or not. What we did was RESPECT each other! We were all equally poor and all we had was each other. What I have reported on this list is the truth FROM MY EXPERIENCE. I lived it and I know. Maybe you might face some reality yourself and understand that any number of blacks killed or maimed while protesting does not make the whole world guilty does it? The same as the Kent State Massacre does not make the whole National Guard Guilty. You need to realize that most of this atrocities have been perpetrated by your government. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you need not call someone you don't know a liar for expressing his memories; just because it don't align with your agenda. So if you have a response (and I know you will) could you just keep it civil and not resort to name calling or character bashing? Maybe we could just debate the issues and leave the character out of it. Sincerely Jim Norman Gerald Harp wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/9/99 7:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from personal experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. Your post is disconnected from reality. You and Howard have shared your fantasy but it doesn't wash. When southern blacks with a number of participating whites began the freedom bus rides and sin-ins during the 1950s and 1960s, they were a threat to most of the quaint gentle white folk of the South. That's why so many of the marchers and bus riders and sit-in people were beaten, sometimes so bad that they were maimed, sometimes even killed but most were simply hosed or had police dogs sicked on them or were beaten with night sticks and jailed. Reality may not be pretty but if you face it you don't have to defend something that never was. Jerry DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectr
[CTRL] [Fwd: [CTRL] Slavery (was: Stampeding Bison)]
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from personal experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. There was no racial tension as today. Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same. Bull. That's what you WANT to believe, to justify your racism. --Nope, its the truth. No racism on my part. I did't talk with black people for a few minutes, I lived it every day after day. You have no reason to call me a racist. You read my little history which I have absolutly no reason to lie about, reporting to you how it was in my neck of the woods and because that does'nt agree with your preconceived beliefs, you resort to calling me names? Do you honestly believe that every body who lives in the South is a racist? Try talking to the BLACKS who lived in the South at that time (as I have), and see if they were oh so content as you would like to believe... --I don't think any of us was content. We all worked from sun to sun just to plant and work the crops. I have a black friend who grew up down south, having to watch the local KKK'rs walk by her house -- in full regalia -- going to and from their meetings...and being made to smile and wave to them...I can tell you, SHE and her family were NOT content, but knew what they had to do to keep from being lynched and their house burned down... --I have heard stories like this but I have never had personal knowledge of such. I never saw a person in a KKK uniform. I've seen many on tv and Jerry Springer, but that kind of trash did not exist where I was raised. There's a reason they moved up North...because the South didn't provide them the opportunities in employment the North did, because of their race... --and the north treated them with respect? The South had farms The North had Manufacturing. It may help to remember that the North, after winning the Civil war did not free their slaves as they forced the South to. And Lincoln had no intentions of freeing the slaves until he needed an issue to keep France and Spain out of the war. You remember that part don't you? We worked together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied men were still at war. -- When I say We, I mean kids, old men Women and the wounded who had returned from the war. I was between 2 and 9 while I was there and I worked as a man would. I chopped cotton, planted tobacco, picked peas, chopped cane, planted rice and any thing else that needed done. I kinda resent not having a childhood and having to work like that but its too late to worry about that now. I'm sure blacks were given equal opportunity to plant clear fields -- for someone else. How many blacks OWNED this property they worked on...? --every farm we worked was owned by a black or white family. the mix was more white than black but so was the population. The Black church was only slightly smaller than the White church. Each church had an adjacent grave yard, but the Black grave yard was larger than the White one. In retrospect, it seems that the Blacks were there longer than Whites were. The "road" we lived on was a long winding clay road with farms and houses on both sides of the road. In the early forty's the community determined that for a orderly method of planting and harvesting to occur with the least amount of moving equipment would be to start on one end of the road and work to the other. With the war on they tried to conserve the use of fuel. By planting the crops in this manner, they harvested the same way since the crops would come in by the stages they were planted. It mattered not whether the farm was owned by Blacks or Whites. When it came up in the rotation, it was done. Some of the poor farmers (Black and White) had tractors and equipment that needed repair. Made no difference. Whose ever tractor worked, is whose we used. How many blacks were allowed to take over important office and factory jobs, supervisory and managerial positions, when the 'able bodied men' (black men WEREN'T 'able bodied'?) were away at war? -- This question I can't respond to since; 1. I don't know why you say black men were not able bodied; The only man I knew who was not able bodied was the man who taught me to shoot a rifle. He lost both his legs above the knee in the war. He could shoot a hog between the eyes on a run, and hardly ever missed. I called him Mr. Baby, as was his want. He took me hunting ever day. He was my friend. 2. None of the folks (including whites) who lived in Claxton were capable of supervising or managing a factory;and 3. we had nothing but farming. Anybody on that road could manage a farm, however. Every farm had senior person. This person was usually the older or more experienced farmer, and most time
Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison
-Caveat Lector- You are correct. It is your list. But, (oh shit here, it comes) what I see is censorship because you don't like his method of supporting his position. I enjoy the list and have learned a lot from both positions of the debate. My appraisal of the intercourse was (in Hawk's defense) honest debate using facts and historical documents; countered by name calling and personal assault. Hawk's retorts to the effacement efforts were, in my opinion, superior. The other debators resorted to name calling and debasement after the second post and it degenerated from there. I think you should be able to sustain your position with substance, not censorship. I further believe, in any debate you should be able to support your position for more than two post without resorting to name calling. Thank you for your work in maintaining this list. I learn a lot from the folks who post here. Sincerely, Jim Norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- I will agree, that there is much 'blame' to go around during the recent 'STUPID' bs flamings. And I really don't want to be a recess monitor. Sometimes I figure, if ya dish it out better expect to deal with it. Mostly it is a bore. Hawk was not put on 'no post' for 'baiting or flaming, but my own personal distaste for bible-thumping slavery apologists. Historical outlooks/discussions buttressed by bibical 'infalliabilty and interpretation" are futile and a waste of time. MHO And personally, somekind of hang-up, I guess, but I just don't 'cotton' to racism, bigotry and slavery, 'authorized' by the Bible, Chamber of Commerce or whatever. Excuse me. And besides what/whose sides? There is the cryptocracy. Their helpers and us, hoi polloi. Om K If people wish to pursue a more broader range discusion list, relating to conspiracy theory, that can be accomplished. But the utility of CTRL goes down when there is a high posting level and a lot of 'noise'. In a message dated 1/8/99 8:19:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: May I second the motion. In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if one goes, they should all go. Jim norman - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Hawk et al
-Caveat Lector- Hawk had nothing coming to him for defending his position in the debate. As far as I could see, he received nothing he did not respond to honestly and effectively. He also won the pissing contest. Jim Norman Source - Richard wrote: -Caveat Lector- Hawk really had what was coming to him. I also agree that William 'egged' him on but he does not deserve throwing off, he was simply defending his views. RoadsEnd wrote: -Caveat Lector- Howdy all, I have just gone through a lengthy post from Hawk, using the bible to justify slavery and comments about how it really wasn't that bad and if ya look at the farm logs, some places only whipped their slaves "0.7 whippings per year". Now I was raised in the south, Virginia and Tennessee, and realize that the 'official line and history' of the Civil War is no more accurate than todays news. But I got no time for a bible thumping slavery apologist. He can start his own list, about that crap(MHO), it is an easy thing to do these days. He could even start a anti-CTRL, with some nazis, for all I care. Hawk can recieve CTRL posts, he cannot post from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to CTRL right now. And with all the chatter I am really too busy for anymore 'noise'. Please all, let us be civil and think a bit before ya post. Om K DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om RFC822 header --- Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from lists.aol.com ([152.163.216.26]) by zag.workstation.org.uk (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA112 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:45:00 + Received: from LISTSERV.AOL.COM by lists.aol.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:55 -0500 Received: from LISTSERV.AOL.COM by LISTSERV.AOL.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 21199784 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:54 -0500 LISTSERV.AOL.COM; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:54 -0500 Þ listserv.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06667 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id DVYMa00808 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:38 +1900 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:56:38 EST Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Hawk et al To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTE
Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison
-Caveat Lector- I believe the problem is a misunderstanding of his beliefs. I don't believe he supports slavery, he simple reported the truth about what happened in history. Slavery still exist today and is not limited to black people. His debate is not about his views, but about the history. I think he is factual in his references. I was raised in the old South in Claxton, Georgia 1941-1949 and I can tell you from personal experience that the old South I experienced respected everyone. There was no racial tension as today. Black people wanted to be with their kind and whites wanted the same. We worked together Black and White to plant and clear the crops since most of the able bodied men were still at war. Everyone helped everyone else. If uncle Joe or uncle John wanted to leave a box of food and supplies on a Black's front porch, it had to be done early in the morning before they woke up, cause if they saw him, they would chase him down and make him take it back. No body wanted charity. My first real introduction to charity was when my Uncle John with bargain for 30 minutes with a Black fellow who lived down the road to swap his carved stick figure for a quart of Uncle John's corn liquor. He threw the carving in the wood box. When I questioned him as to why he threw it away after trading for it he replied, " You don't think that man would take charity, do You?" Things have changed a lot since then. The "hit the delete button" remark was un-necessary; hitting the delete button only perpetuates ignorance. It is not an escape. Sincerely and respectfully, Jim Norman William Hugh Tunstall wrote: -Caveat Lector- What constitutes "baiting"? While I've subscribed to the list, I've read posts attacking Jews, minorities, and "liberals." Plus, all of the vile and scurrilous posts about the President and Hillary. In addition, I've read posts that have targeted the poor, welfare recipients, and Native Americans. Not to mention the many posts attacking feminists or women in general. Plus, there are the many strange posts defending slavery. I have responded to these many attacks in as courteous a manner as possible. Barb Witt, who does not share my views on many issues, has pointed out that I have tried to be fair and polite to those who I disagree with. I don't think I've "baited" anyone. If anything, I have been "baited" by the neofascists on the list from the outset with snide remarks and ad hominem attacks. I locked horns with Hawk...only to now be accused of being Hawk in disguise!!! Ha ha...go figure! Yes, there is a similarity between the two of us... And I do respect the maneven though I disagree with everything he believes. I've spent my entire life surrounded by people who think like he doesand I think I was making progress towards showing him that liberals and people of color also love their country...also love their kids...also believe in decency, integrity, respect for property...the same things he values I'm not a white middle class American. I didn't go to an elitist school... My father was an alcoholic, parents divorced when I was twelve... I know what it's like to live on the streets and be hungry...how many of you can say the same? Have you ever worked at a factory? washed dishes to eat? worked in construction? ...struggled to survive? Old Hawk and I come from the same low strata. We are the people who follow behind your parade with the shovels. I understand his sense of betrayal and rage. He's my brother.. although I disagree with his views. So...if you dislike my posts...just hit the delete button. On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Jim Norman wrote: -Caveat Lector- May I second the motion. In my opinion, "baiting" took place on both sides and if one goes, they should all go. Jim norman William Hugh Tunstall wrote: -Caveat Lector- Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list. I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision. All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive. I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive, in my opinion, that his posts.. Best wishes, William On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote: -Caveat Lector- I think you missed my earlier post. I'm not against the idea of states leaving the Union...per se. In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused and complex. But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise. Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particu
Re: [CTRL] Cato News Releases (http://www.cato.org/new/catonew.html)
-Caveat Lector- The president is not elected by the people. He is elected as the constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the several States describes...by electors. Electors for a Presidential election are appointed by the executive committee's of the several States. I know, I know "what about the popular vote" and "the popular vote always corresponds to the "Electoral College"? (another false term that has no legislative code to support it.) I have been unable to find any statue that provides for the election of a President by the masses. If such a law existed, it would be contrary to the US Constitution and would be a non law. Jim Norman Linda Minor wrote: http://www.cato.org/new/catonew.html The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to trial by jury in "all criminal prosecutions." A criminal trial jury can nullify-render an independent verdict-by acquitting a defendant who may be factually guilty because the jurors feel that it would be unjust, unconstitutional or simply pointless to convict. Except for the President, elected by the people, of course. He doesn't have the right to claim 5th or 14th Amendment rights and can be deprived of his office without the exclusion of inadmissible evidence or without the right to confront the persons furnishing such "evidence". Name: Cato News Releases.url Cato News Releases.urlType: Internet Shortcut (application/x-unknown-content-type-InternetShortcut) Encoding: 7bit DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
