Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal - and Palestinian propaganda.
-Caveat Lector- From: Nurev Ind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal - and Palestinian propaganda. Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:31:12 -0400 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- sigh ok, give me the answers to these questions Was Ariel Sharon in command of the occupied area where the massacres took place ? Yes he was. Is there a Geneva convention (4th) which places responsibility of a population upon the person in charge ? I don't know. But if there is, that's not the law under which Sharon is being charged. It is a special law recently enacted but it's not clear to me by whom. Special law ? to be a war criminal you have to break the Geneva conventions and they have been in force for over 50 years. This is a new arrangement created in Belgium. The Palestinians are not coming before the United Nations to enforce the Geneva Conventions. They are bringing their case to Belgium. By the way, the USA has not recognized either Belgium OR the World Court in the Hague. They are afraid that what is happening to Sharon could happen to the American military any where in the world. It's hard to maintain a criminal empire when you can be brought up on charges. For this reason they will grudgingly skunk the trial. Because they hate Sharon. They can't control him like they can Peres and the Laborites. ah, ok now i understand. slight confusion here. Yeah i do NOT think sharon will get found guilty for Genocide or crimes against humanity, but i think he will be found guilty for war crimes if he stands for trial. Yeah its a shame when the self appointed 'leader of the free world' has to be afraid of international justice, but is willing to put that same justice on to others. ariel sharon has broken the geneva conventions pretaining to the safeguarding of civilians at a time when the land is occupied since you do not know and might not believe me ill give you a link and you can find out for yourself. http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm Im hoping that you'll trust the site, it is the United Nations site after all. Are you well versed in international law? Are you jewish ? Yes. These questions should sort it out, the first two will show why sharon should be indicted as a war criminal, No they don't. You don't know that law. You are making presumptions based on ignorance. For Sharon to be indicted as a war criminal he would have to have had intent. Further more, it would have to be proven. please dont lecture me on law, and if you were brave enough you would debate without having to resort to mud slinging. War crimes do not have to show or prove intent, crimes against humanity and genocide however do need to. Ariel sharon is NOT being accused of crimes against humanity or genocide. However he is being accused of breaking geneva conventions. Ok Goolie I won't lecture you on Belgian law. Since you sound so confident, I will presume that you are a lawyer. Maybe you can explain this... Chibli Mallat, one of the lawyers filing the case, has explicitly stated that the The complaint is filed against Ariel Sharon, Amos Yaron and any Israeli or Lebanese person responsible for *** genocide, crimes against humanity,*** and war crimes that happened between the 16th and 18th of September, including the killing, torture, rape and disappearance of from 1000 to 3500 civilians - children and women as well as men, Lebanese as well as Palestinians. By the way, you'll notice the number of dead is really unknown. But when it's presented by the Palestinians, it gets bigger and bigger. Do you have any idea what it takes to kill 3,500 people and then get rid of the bodies? Dude, i dont think that you should be so critical of the amount of dead people, international agency have said a number (think it was 2000 i cant remember off hand) i mean there are bodies that are buried that may not have been found. whatever the amount i think its safe to say it was a tragedy. If you still do not believe me, here is another link http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ign0 This link is the ministry of foriegn affairs of the israeli goverment. This site details a report by Yitzhak Kahan commissioned to find out what happened. What it found was that Ariel sharon was indirectly responsible for the killings but directly responsible for disregarding the safety of the people at the camps The Kahan Commission needed to produce a scapegoat to appease world opinion. So they did. Sharon got a slap on the wrist. He was forced to resign as defense minister. But he was right back in government when the Likud regained power. I don't see much value in the Kahan Commission's work. I see it as a cover up. Look, nurev, be brave and be a man to know what is right, Im not backing
Re: [CTRL] Did you read Mike's post Goolie?- FOXNews: War Crime Charges Against Clinton?
-Caveat Lector- yeah, just read it from your post. its a shame that the same yard stick isnt applied to all people. there is a famous quote that i cant quite remember who said it, but it goes something like this The measure of a nation is not if they are in power or are powerfull, but what they do with the power they have suppose this show it all / From: Nurev Ind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Did you read Mike's post Goolie?- FOXNews: War Crime Charges Against Clinton? Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:12:10 -0400 -Caveat Lector- MIKE SPITZER wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28365,00.html Analysis: Door Could Be Open for International War Crime Charges Against Clinton FOXNews Thursday, June 28, 2001 By Nathan Brown Serb authorities are scrambling to respond to the Yugoslavian Constitutional Court's freeze on Slobodan Milosevic's extradition. Despite the delay, he will likely stand before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, on charges of war crimes. More interesting is what Milosevic will not be charged with, and the impact on other foreign leaders and military officers around the world. In the two years since the Kosovo conflict, there has been little evidence produced to prove that the former president did, in fact, commit the genocide that NATO claimed justified the war. He will now be charged only with war crimes. Ironically, the precedent-setting reduction in charges would make it easy for international courts to try a variety of foreign leaders and military officers, including Americans. The Kosovo indictment includes persecution and seven instances of murder, totaling 340 victims. These murders are classified both as alleged war crimes -- violations of the codes and practices of war -- and as crimes against humanity, defined as severe crimes conducted against innocents, often outside the context of war. But noticeably absent are charges of genocide. This is striking because Milosevic's government was blamed for as many as 10,000 killings of ethnic Albanians during the opening weeks of the 1999 war for Kosovo. It now appears that these mass killings have not been borne out by two years of excavations and investigations. The charges Milosevic must answer to in The Hague are significantly different from the charges of genocide leveled by London and Washington just two years ago. During the initial weeks of the war, NATO governments claimed that the numbers of ethnic Albanian dead and missing ranged in the tens of thousands. Eventually, the accepted number of Albanian dead settled around 10,000. The ICTY has exhumed about 4,000 bodies to date, according to a spokeswoman. However, many of these bodies have not been definitively identified, either as non-combatant ethnic Albanians or otherwise. They may be casualties of battle, collateral damage or victims of ethnic infighting. More Albanian bodies have recently been discovered in Serbia. Late in 2000, the ICTY changed its tactic: It shifted from conducting a mass search for the killing fields to putting together a case, based on available evidence that would convict Milosevic. As a result, the charges are certainly somber but of lesser magnitude. Rather than charges of genocide, Milosevic would stand trial for war crimes -- violations of the Geneva Conventions that are comparatively common in conflict -- as well as certain crimes against humanity, but not genocide. The tribunal is helping to set an important and ironic precedent. By dropping the genocide charge, the court has set a relatively undemanding hurdle for trying heads of state or military leaders. And the ICTY's most serious charges -- crimes against humanity -- are not iron-clad in the sense that the crimes are not on the scale of, say, Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. As a result, the threshold for crimes against humanity -- and their ferocity -- have been signficantly lowered. If an unpopular but democratically elected former leader like Milosevic can be indicted, extradited and tried for these crimes, so can many other political leaders in a variety of governments around the world. Every leader who has sent troops into conflict is liable for civilian deaths or excessive force. The potential list ranges from influential figures like Russian President Vladimir Putin, for Chechnya, to lesser-known leaders like Mozambique's Joaquim Chissano, who presided over his own country's civil war and remains in power. On this front, Americans may have some of the greatest legal exposure. Former President Clinton ordered U.S. operations in Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan and Sudan -- all of which resulted in civilian deaths. U.S. military officers may face additional legal exposure abroad,
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal - and Palestinian propaganda.
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- sigh ok, give me the answers to these questions Was Ariel Sharon in command of the occupied area where the massacres took place ? Yes he was. Is there a Geneva convention (4th) which places responsibility of a population upon the person in charge ? I don't know. But if there is, that's not the law under which Sharon is being charged. It is a special law recently enacted but it's not clear to me by whom. Special law ? to be a war criminal you have to break the Geneva conventions and they have been in force for over 50 years. ariel sharon has broken the geneva conventions pretaining to the safeguarding of civilians at a time when the land is occupied since you do not know and might not believe me ill give you a link and you can find out for yourself. http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm Im hoping that you'll trust the site, it is the United Nations site after all. Are you well versed in international law? Are you jewish ? Yes. These questions should sort it out, the first two will show why sharon should be indicted as a war criminal, No they don't. You don't know that law. You are making presumptions based on ignorance. For Sharon to be indicted as a war criminal he would have to have had intent. Further more, it would have to be proven. please dont lecture me on law, and if you were brave enough you would debate without having to resort to mud slinging. War crimes do not have to show or prove intent, crimes against humanity and genocide however do need to. Ariel sharon is NOT being accused of crimes against humanity or genocide. However he is being accused of breaking geneva conventions. If you still do not believe me, here is another link http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ign0 This link is the ministry of foriegn affairs of the israeli goverment. This site details a report by Yitzhak Kahan commissioned to find out what happened. What it found was that Ariel sharon was indirectly responsible for the killings but directly responsible for disregarding the safety of the people at the camps Look, nurev, be brave and be a man to know what is right, Im not backing arafat, syrians, egyptians, israelis or anyone else. In fact i would like to see their cumuppance. I am also not attacking the jews/israelis, but what i am humbly trying to do is show you that a man who should be indicted and at LEAST tried for war crimes is now in control of a very powerful country. Do you not agree that he should be at least tried ? The Kahan commission has already found him guilty. As it stands now, propaganda aside, he had the nearby sport stadium cleaned and ready to move the inhabitants of Sabra and Shatilla into for identification. He was looking for Arafat's glorious fighters left behind to start new terrorist cells. There were also Shiites, Muslim Arabs who lived in that neighborhood before the Palestinians flooded in. The Israelis had no truck with these people. So there is no evidence pointing to malevolent intent by the Israelis. The opposite is true. There are witnesses who have publicly stated that Sharon gave orders to protect non-combatants. The worst he could be accused of and responsible for is negligence due to bad judgment. The Lebanese Christians had been fighting for supremacy in Lebanon for a long time. They were corrupt, thieving fascists who would use the Israelis as much as the Israelis were using them. They fought among themselves viciously. Tribe against tribe, and faction against faction. They didn't want to be dominated by Syria. The Muslim Arab Lebanese majority didn't mind Syria and didn't want to be dominated by the Christians who were backed by Israel. The Christians hated the Palestinians who came to Lebanon after being driven out of Jordan by King Hussein for starting an insurrection among the 60% Palestinian population of Jordan. The Palestinians were not nice neighbors and wanted to take over Southern Lebanon. The country was in chaos, and the PLO had a perfect launching platform with a weak government from which to carry out a war of attrition against Northern Israel. The Phalangists and the Israelis had common enemies but different agendas. The Israelis wanted the Phalangists to rule Lebanon. After the Syrians assassinated Bashir Gemayel, the Israelis took charge of West Beirut even though they promised they wouldn't. Then they inherited Sabra and Shatilla. Then the Sabra and Shatilla hit the fan. The Israelis were trapped in a mess of their own making. Sharon was the political scapegoat for the mess in Lebanon. He deserved what he got. I am not an admirer of Arik Sharon. So you really don't know what you are talking about. And you don't really care much for what actually happened either do you? I'll bet you don't know the names of the actual killers. Do you? In all this discussion you have not once called for the capture, indictment and trial
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: StupidgullibleLiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda.
-Caveat Lector- must have sent this to wrong place because i didnt get a reply from nurev sorry if i sent this before -Caveat Lector- That land was annexed by the King of Jordan at the time of partition. After WWII. Then they lost it to the Israelis in the Six Day War. The Resolution 242 made no difference when the Jordanians ignored it and it makes no difference anywhere else in the world. Wrong again buddy, Resolution 242 doesnt call for Jordan to relinqish land, nor does it call for any other country to do so. what it does is tells Israel to return to the June 4, 1967 borders, thereby relinquishing all territories captured in the June 1967 war. This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but before the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so that no one nation could conquer another and displace the population (as Nazi Germany did with Poland, France etc.) And which nation on the planet gives a shit about UN laws? Turkey? Syria? The USA and Western Europe attacking Yugoslavia? Britain attacking the Falklands? C'mon Gooli get real. You show that you really do understand by your Cicero quote down below. ah, nurev, so dismissive of the UN, but to play along ill tell you one nation that gives a shit about the UN, Israel, for were it not for UN res 181 there would be no Israel So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as a pretext to what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on earth. Never a pretext. The situations are entirely different. I just want to know how you justify living on lands stolen from the Indians. How do you? The situations are not differnt, 'settlers' are living on land that does not belong to them (golan, west bank, gaza) forcing out native populations to make way for the occupying force to settle there. Just as was done to native indians. Like i said before UN resolutions and Geneva conventions were not there at the time of the colonisation of north america. so you see buddy, Israel is legally bound to ship outta that land it stole/occupies also, im not from the US. heres my quote again Law stands mute in the midst of arms. Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- That land was annexed by the King of Jordan at the time of partition. After WWII. Then they lost it to the Israelis in the Six Day War. The Resolution 242 made no difference when the Jordanians ignored it and it makes no difference anywhere else in the world. Wrong again buddy, Resolution 242 doesnt call for Jordan to relinqish land, nor does it call for any other country to do so. what it does istells Israel toreturn to the June 4, 1967 borders, thereby relinquishing allterritories captured in the June 1967 war. This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but before the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so that noone nation could conquer another and displace the population (as Nazi Germanydid with Poland, France etc.) And which nation on the planet gives a shit about UN laws? Turkey? Syria? The USA and Western Europe attacking Yugoslavia? Britain attacking the Falklands? C'mon Gooli get real. You show that you really do understand by your Cicero quote down below. ah, nurev, so dismissive of the UN, but to play along ill tell you one nation that gives a "shit" about the UN, Israel, for were it not for UN res 181 there would be no Israel So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as a pretextto what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on earth. Never a pretext. The situations are entirely different. I just want to know how you justify living on lands stolen from the Indians. How do you? The situations are not differnt, 'settlers' are living on land that does not belong to them (golan, west bank, gaza) forcing out native populations to make way for the occupying force to settle there.Just as was done to native indians. Like i said before UN resolutions and Geneva conventions were not bad at the time of the colonisation of north america. so you see buddy, Israel is legally bound to ship outta that land it stole/occupies also, im not from the US. heres my quote again Law stands mute in the midst of arms. Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: StupidgullibleLiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- sigh ok, give me the answers to these questions Was Ariel Sharon in command of the occupied area where the massacres took place ? Is there a Geneva convention (4th) which places responsibility of a population upon the person in charge ? Are you jewish ? These questions should sort it out, the first two will show why sharon should be indicted as a war criminal, the last one will show the rest of us why you dont want to see the truth. From: Nurev Ind. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: StupidgullibleLiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2 Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:53:30 -0400 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- ah nurev, nurev, nurev dont tell me your going to start personal attacks against me. Yes i did read the second part, the disscussion here is on Ariel Sharon not the syrians or the phalange or any other group. If you would like we could discuss that on another thread, but this thread has the topic of Sharon War Criminal. No. The subject is - Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2 Which means that the information you describe below is Palestinian disinformation. The fact remains that Ariel Sharon did not do enough to stop people that he was in charge of being killed. On the contrary the IDF threw flares all through the night to help light the way for the phalange. If you did read part 2, then you would have information from an actual participant at a very high level. Not from Palestinians who are disregarding the killers in order to win political points in their current political contest with Israel and Sharon. Read again why why the Israelis threw up flares. The conclusion you came to was the opposite of what the eyewitness and perpetrator says. Since you weren't actually there, you make your choice of what is real and what is not based on your first exposure which is all based on Palestinian disinformation. There is substantial evidence to call for Sharon to be tried in front of an International court. As was said on the BBC programme. Maybe yes, and maybe no. But there is MORE evidence to try the actual killers. My problem with you is that you are at best backing the wrong horse. Do you really want to bring the massacre to a just conclusion or is it really about something else. I know the answer to that. Do you? Arafat? I personaly think he is a bad apple and he could be up for some very nasty crimes, however im not sure if war crimes are one of them. Well then why don't you learn about the history of PLO in Southern Lebanon. Then you won't have much doubt whether war crimes are an issue. Maybe you could enligten me. I would prefer though that you did this on another thread, as i said before the subject of this disscussion is Ariel Sharon. Sabra and Shatila are being used as a weapon to punish Sharon for invading Lebanon and throwing out the PLO. The problem is that he was not responsible for the massacre AT ALL. He gave direct orders to the Phalangists not to harm the non-combatants. He had know way of knowing that the commander of the Phalangists that he gave those orders to was an agent of Syrian Intelligence and that he used the opportunity to create a situation of such horror that it would cover over the assassination of the Elected President of Lebanon by the Syrians who always considered Lebanon a part of Syria. This is known to the Palestinians. The Hamas article in part 2 proves it. The best thing that could happen is that Sharon should open the case and bring in the evidence and the perps. But that won't happen. No head of state can be forced to trial like this. The Palestinians know this as well. So now we will have a PR war in the media at a time of real crisis in the Middle East. But is interesting to watch what people choose to believe. Joshua2 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- He did not commit THAT war crime. oh really he did not commit that crime ? was Sharon the man in charge of that area ? the answer is yes he was. according to Geneva conventions and International law the person in charge is the one responsible when the land is occupied by a forigen force. Even though he did not do it himself, the safety of civilians and militray personal arrested are his responsibiliity. Did you bother to read part2 of what I posted or do you just like going in circles? Sharon gave orders to protect non-combatants. This from one of the men who did the killing. Did you read what Hamas said? By the way, do you think that Arafat is a war criminal? J2 There will ALWAYS be war crimes in war. ALWAYS The solution is to not allow wars to get started. yes that is true, but once the crime has been
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible LiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- He did not commit THAT war crime. oh really he did not commit that crime ? was Sharon the man in charge of that area ? the answer is yes he was. according to Geneva conventions and International law the person in charge is the one responsible when the land is occupied by a forigen force. Even though he did not do it himself, the safety of civilians and militray personal arrested are his responsibiliity. There will ALWAYS be war crimes in war. ALWAYS The solution is to not allow wars to get started. yes that is true, but once the crime has been committed the perpetrator should bd brought to trial and punished for his crimes.Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullibleLiberalsandPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- ah nurev, nurev, nurev dont tell me your going to start personal attacksagainst me. Yes i did read the second part, thedisscussion here is onAriel Sharon not the syriansor the phalangeor any other group. If you would like we could discuss that on another thread, but this thread has the topic of "Sharon War Criminal". The fact remains that Ariel Sharon did not do enough to stop people that he was in charge of being killed. On the contrary the IDF threw flares all through the night to help light the way for the phalange. There is substantial evidence to call for Sharon to be tried in front of an International court. As was said on the BBC programme. Arafat? I personaly think he is a bad apple and he could be up for some very nasty crimes, however im not sure if war crimes are one of them. Maybe you could enligten me. I would prefer though that you did this on another thread, as i said before the subject of this disscussion is Ariel Sharon. -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- He did not commit THAT war crime. oh really he did not commit that crime ? was Sharon the man in charge of that area ? the answer is yes he was. according to Geneva conventions and International law the person in charge is the one responsible when the land is occupied by a forigen force. Even though he did not do it himself, the safety of civilians and militray personal arrested are his responsibiliity. Did you bother to read part2 of what I posted or do you just like going in circles? Sharon gave orders to protect non-combatants. This from one of the men who did the killing. Did you read what Hamas said? By the way, do you think that Arafat is a war criminal? J2 There will ALWAYS be war crimes in war. ALWAYS The solution is to not allow wars to get started. yes that is true, but once the crime has been committed the perpetrator should bd brought to trial and punished for his crimes. -- www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible ...
-Caveat Lector- They are Israelis. And the West Bank, and Gaza are territories that were lost to Israel in a war with Arab Palestine A.K.A. Jordan, who was warned not to attack Israel during the Six Day War. They are not " occupied " by Israel. They are occupied by a conquered enemy population. Losers can't be choosers. How come no one is asking the USA to return Texas, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, and California to Mexico??? And, the rest of the country to the Indians? How come you are not? Sorry buddy, the above statement is wrong. It is true that Israel did conquer 'that' land, however i have to point out that under international law (Geneva convention) and under the UN Security Council Resolution 242the law "prohibits the expansion of any nations territory by military force" This law was basically created after the defeat of Nazi Germany, but before the creation of the nation of Israel. Basically it was constructed so that no one nation could conquer another and displace the population (as Nazi Germany did with Poland, France etc.) So you see what was done to the Indians cannot be used in any way as a pretext to what is happening in palestine or in fact any other place on earth. Law stands mute in the midst of arms.Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC - 43 BC) Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- Let me get this straight first. Are you saying Ariel Sharon has NOT commited war crimes ? a simple answer of yes or no will suffice. From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals andPalestinianpropaganda. 1/2 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:03:27 -0400 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- hahaha, looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. is that what your trying to do Nurev ? Can you read Goolie? Do you think I told Hamas to say what they said just to fool you? Or do you just like being a dupe? The facts are out. Anyone can do their own research on the subject as I did. Hahaha is not a rebuttal to the facts I posted. Check it out for yourself. Joshua2 www.ctrl.org DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2
-Caveat Lector- hahaha, looks to me Nurev is trying to rationalise war crimes. is that what your trying to do Nurev ? From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Sharon War Criminal: Stupid gullible Liberals and Palestinian propaganda. 1/2 Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:48:36 -0400 -Caveat Lector- SHARON THE WAR CRIMINAL Let's see how propaganda works. The test case can be the current attempt by pro-Palestinian groups and individuals to demonize Ariel Sharon as the butcher of Sabra and Shatilla. This has been going on for two decades, but the latest ploy is charging him with war crimes in the international court in Belgium where a Palestinian woman is bringing the charges against the Israeli head of state. This woman was raped and members of her family were brutally massacred by Christian Militiamen who hated the Palestinians for THEIR brutal occupation of Southern Lebanon and the numerous atrocities perpetrated by the great Palestinian fighters who were ultimately driven out by Sharon. Does this woman ( or even ANYBODY ELSE ) bring charges against the known rapists and killers? Of course not. There is no political advantage in doing that. Do you feel the cynicism? This should be seen as politically driven. Not only by the Palestinians (who know the truth and are using the tragedy of Sabra Shatilla the same way they cynically use the deaths of their own children to achieve the status of super victim), but also those with specific political agenda like the BBC, as well as most of the Euro media who's economies depend on Arab oil from the Middle East, and have no particular intrest in Jews. The Palestinians have gotten to understand that their most receptive mass audience in the West are Liberals. Liberals respond to victimology as Pavlov's dogs responded to bells. They begin to salivate for the opportunity to prove to themselves and other Liberals what good people they are by sympathizing with a perceived victim while actually doing nothing of consequence. This is how the USA and Euro Globalists got a majority of their citizens to back the destruction of Yugoslavia. The aggressors, the Albanian Separatists, were presented as victims of the evil Serbs even though they were paid by the CIA and German Secret Services to start a secessionist revolt in a country which the Globalists wanted to destroy for being a non-Capitalist economy. By doing this, the West's ( war criminal ) media began a one sided exposition of the horrors of civil war. PR firms were hired to plan and manage the " victimization " of the Albanians. This worked splendidly. Gullible Liberals, were the specific target of this campaign because they are the current majorities in both the US and the EU. But being a majority does not mean that they are not shallow and stupid. NATO destroyed an old reliable ally who helped save Europe from Hitler by forcing the Germans to start Barbarosa much later than planned. The Serb rebellion tied up German armor until the Serbs were defeated and sent to concentration camps to die. They were directly responsible for Germany's late winter invasion of Russia. The Albanians ( like the Palestinians ) were Nazi allies. But the Albanians, led by the KLA, were then, and are now the biggest drug dealers in Europe. They are also the major group responsible for for the sex/slave trade of Eastern European girls. Their drug and slave base is in Kosovo. But hey! That's all OK. Why? Because they were accepted as victims. gullible - adj. easily cheated or tricked; credulous n. gullibility adv. gullibly gullible modif. Syn. innocent, trustful, simple; see naive. See credulous, superstitious, trusting Nurev PS: Be sure to read part 2. You will find quite a surprise. + Witness to Sabra and Shatila: why Sharon is a war criminal 15 JUNE 2001 Dr. Ben Alofs http://metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-24/opin/witness_to_sabra.htm I am a Dutch doctor, currently living in north Wales. In the summer of 1982 I was working as a nurse in West Beirut, which at the time was being besieged by the Israeli army. The American negotiator Philip Habib had mediated an agreement, according to which the Israeli army would refrain from occupying West Beirut after the Palestinian fedayeen guerrillas had left. A second fundamental aspect of the agreement was that the United States would guarantee the security of the remaining Palestinian civilian population. The evacuation, supervised by an international peacekeeping force, went smoothly, and was completed on September 1, much earlier than September 26, the date that had been agreed on. The international peacekeeping force left between September 10 and 13. On September 3 the first violation of the Habib agreement took place when Israeli forces occupied Bir Hassan in the southern suburbs of Beirut. Before that, Israeli Defense
Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker?
-Caveat Lector- listen wee man, the main point of this is that ARAFAT is a killer i agree to that, but SHARON is a killer too you some how forgot to mention that in your little article. and dont hit me with the crap that the UN dont matter. as long as your country is signed up to the UN (which it probably has) then your bound to do what it says. And this about there being many muslim countries in the UN, so what? theres many christian countries there too, there are also secular countries too no difference! and it also dont make a difference for them to wanting oil, if there was peace in the ME then oil price would probably be much lower. so i dont agree with your whole UN argument at all. oh im sorry, my mistake the jews arent running the white house at all, there running the goverment. From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:34:28 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- Hold on a sec, are you saying that if you dont agree with the UN then you shouldnt have to agree with them, and do what the world community says ? That's right. The 5 major powers of the UN are USA, UK, FRANCE, RUSSIA, CHINA This is the security council. There are other parts to the UN. you tell me which one of these countries is muslim ? in fact USA and its puppy UK are more incilined to take the Israeli stand point. Only if the Israelis toe the globalist line. Which they have up to now. If Sharon wins, you'll see some interesting changes. I dont think Russia is muslim, their mainly christian and so is France. china is a completly differnt ball game, but it still aint muslim. France gets its oil from the Mid East. Russia backs the Muslims in the Mid East as a counter to the US backing Israel. China has good relations with Israel. So the notion that the UN is mainly muslim isnt correct. I never said that. I said that there are many Muslim countries in the UN, and many others beholding to Arab oil. If the jews werent running the White house then i bet Israel woulda been called a rouge state ages ago. Jews running the White House? On which planet? J2 From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:31:09 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- what ? the UN found him DIRECTLY responsible Israel had found him INDIRECTLY responsible Yes, you are right about the UN. Israelis don't pay much attention to the UN. And for good reason too. The UN has MANY Muslim states as members, and has many other states which need Muslim oil. I wouldn't exactly call it an unbiassed body. But the point is that the massacre was carried out AGAINST his direct orders according to a Phalangist participant in the massacre. and i dont think the country that he fights for is gonna punish him either. No they will not. He saved Israel from military destruction in the Yom Kippur War. Instead he will probably be the next Prime Minister. That will be interesting. just look at the way the guy that killed that 10 year old got away with it. Killers should fry. J2 From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:20:04 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- What are you on man ? Ariel Sharon, was found directly responsible for massacres of palestinians in UN shelters. Actally, he was found INDIRECTLY responsible. The killings were done against his direct orders by a Syrian opperative who was a Christian Phalangist. If you want to know more about this, see... *From Israel to Damascus* on the Net. A book written by one of the Phalangist militiamen who actually did the killing. Joshua2 Mere civilans just trying to survive in UN encampments, when along comes 'the buldozer'. It wasnt even 2 or 20 people that he was responsible for killing, the total tally reached the hundreds. The next time you see Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon talking politely to Ted Koppel on "Nightline," I want you to remember that behind that phony smile is the conscience of a killer. He's the premeditated murderer of U.S. diplomats/hundreds of humans. The next time you hear about the need for a Palestinian state/security, I want you to remember that the leader for life of that nation will be Yasser Arafat/Ar
Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker?
-Caveat Lector- Hold on a sec, are you saying that if you dont agree with the UN then you shouldnt have to agree with them, and do what the world community says ? The 5 major powers of the UN are USA, UK, FRANCE, RUSSIA, CHINA you tell me which one of these countries is muslim ? in fact USA and its puppy UK are more incilined to take the Israeli stand point. I dont think Russia is muslim, their mainly christian and so is France. china is a completly differnt ball game, but it still aint muslim. So the notion that the UN is mainly muslim isnt correct. If the jews werent running the White house then i bet Israel woulda been called a rouge state ages ago. From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:31:09 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- what ? the UN found him DIRECTLY responsible Israel had found him INDIRECTLY responsible Yes, you are right about the UN. Israelis don't pay much attention to the UN. And for good reason too. The UN has MANY Muslim states as members, and has many other states which need Muslim oil. I wouldn't exactly call it an unbiassed body. But the point is that the massacre was carried out AGAINST his direct orders according to a Phalangist participant in the massacre. and i dont think the country that he fights for is gonna punish him either. No they will not. He saved Israel from military destruction in the Yom Kippur War. Instead he will probably be the next Prime Minister. That will be interesting. just look at the way the guy that killed that 10 year old got away with it. Killers should fry. J2 From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:20:04 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- What are you on man ? Ariel Sharon, was found directly responsible for massacres of palestinians in UN shelters. Actally, he was found INDIRECTLY responsible. The killings were done against his direct orders by a Syrian opperative who was a Christian Phalangist. If you want to know more about this, see... *From Israel to Damascus* on the Net. A book written by one of the Phalangist militiamen who actually did the killing. Joshua2 Mere civilans just trying to survive in UN encampments, when along comes 'the buldozer'. It wasnt even 2 or 20 people that he was responsible for killing, the total tally reached the hundreds. The next time you see Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon talking politely to Ted Koppel on "Nightline," I want you to remember that behind that phony smile is the conscience of a killer. He's the premeditated murderer of U.S. diplomats/hundreds of humans. The next time you hear about the need for a Palestinian state/security, I want you to remember that the leader for life of that nation will be Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon. Does that really sound like the foundation for a permanent peace? See it works both ways From: Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:01:26 -0600 -Caveat Lector- Murderer as peacemaker? © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com How would you like it if millions of your hard-earned tax dollars were sent to a little foreign dictator who murdered two American diplomats and got away with it? I'm sure you would not be a happy camper. Well, as much as I hate to upset you, dear readers, that is precisely what is happening with the millions of dollars the U.S. is transferring in foreign aid to Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Authority. Maybe you didn't know about Arafat's murderous record before. For that you can be excused, because the establishment press has not done much to expose this petty tyrant -- this killer of unarmed, innocent Americans simply doing their country's diplomatic duty. But once I tell you the details of this heinous crime -- this unforgivable act of bloodlust -- you won't have any excuses, anymore. If you don't act -- if you don't scream about it to your elected officials in Washington -- then you, too, will be tacitly guilty of rewarding a cowardly killer for his evil deeds. Here are the facts, as I revealed in a news story in WorldNetDaily last week: On Feb. 28, 1973, Yasser Arafat was overheard by Israeli and U.S. intelligence operatives planning a Black September terrorist operation in Khartoum, Sudan. His transmissions were tap
Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker?
-Caveat Lector- what ? the UN found him DIRECTLY responsible Israel had found him INDIRECTLY responsible and i dont think the country that he fights for is gonna punish him either. just look at the way the guy that killed that 10 year old got away with it From: Nurev Ind Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:20:04 -0500 -Caveat Lector- goolie smith wrote: -Caveat Lector- What are you on man ? Ariel Sharon, was found directly responsible for massacres of palestinians in UN shelters. Actally, he was found INDIRECTLY responsible. The killings were done against his direct orders by a Syrian opperative who was a Christian Phalangist. If you want to know more about this, see... *From Israel to Damascus* on the Net. A book written by one of the Phalangist militiamen who actually did the killing. Joshua2 Mere civilans just trying to survive in UN encampments, when along comes 'the buldozer'. It wasnt even 2 or 20 people that he was responsible for killing, the total tally reached the hundreds. The next time you see Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon talking politely to Ted Koppel on "Nightline," I want you to remember that behind that phony smile is the conscience of a killer. He's the premeditated murderer of U.S. diplomats/hundreds of humans. The next time you hear about the need for a Palestinian state/security, I want you to remember that the leader for life of that nation will be Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon. Does that really sound like the foundation for a permanent peace? See it works both ways From: Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:01:26 -0600 -Caveat Lector- Murderer as peacemaker? © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com How would you like it if millions of your hard-earned tax dollars were sent to a little foreign dictator who murdered two American diplomats and got away with it? I'm sure you would not be a happy camper. Well, as much as I hate to upset you, dear readers, that is precisely what is happening with the millions of dollars the U.S. is transferring in foreign aid to Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Authority. Maybe you didn't know about Arafat's murderous record before. For that you can be excused, because the establishment press has not done much to expose this petty tyrant -- this killer of unarmed, innocent Americans simply doing their country's diplomatic duty. But once I tell you the details of this heinous crime -- this unforgivable act of bloodlust -- you won't have any excuses, anymore. If you don't act -- if you don't scream about it to your elected officials in Washington -- then you, too, will be tacitly guilty of rewarding a cowardly killer for his evil deeds. Here are the facts, as I revealed in a news story in WorldNetDaily last week: On Feb. 28, 1973, Yasser Arafat was overheard by Israeli and U.S. intelligence operatives planning a Black September terrorist operation in Khartoum, Sudan. His transmissions were tape-recorded. They were transcribed, and warnings were issued by National Security Agency personnel to the U.S. Embassy in Sudan. Unfortunately, the alert was delayed because of a bureaucratic snafu. A day later, eight Black September terrorists stormed the Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum and grabbed U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel, Charge d'Affaires George Curtis Moore and others hostage. On March 2, 1973, after the terrorists' demands for the release of Sirhan Sirhan, Robert F. Kennedy's assassin, were rebuffed by President Nixon, Arafat was heard and recorded, once again, providing the code words for the execution of Noel, Moore and Belgian diplomat Guy Eid. They were machine-gunned to death. Until last week, no American involved in this tragedy had spoken out on the details of that tragedy. But 28 years later, James Welsh, the Palestinian analyst for the NSA who issued the first alert on the incident, went public with charges of a cover-up of Arafat's key role in the planning and execution of the attack. Think about it. Yasser Arafat just visited the White House a few weeks ago. He has won the Nobel Peace Prize. He is heralded as a moderating force for compromise in the Middle East. Yet, the truth is, he is a cold-blooded murderer of innocent Americans. "No one wants to touch this thing," Welsh says. "It's a hot potato. No one wants to be responsible for derailing the Mideast peace process." But Welsh thinks the American people, who are footing much of the bill for Arafat's current activities, have a right to know about his personal responsibility for the mur
Re: [CTRL] Israeli Gets Community Service in Palestinian Death
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- On 22 Jan 01, at 9:02, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote: Did anyone else see this story in the NY Times, and was the child in question ten as the NY Times says or eleven as my daily paper says? Prudy Is it possible that some nations put their children out there in the front lines, throwing stones, etc., and then when there are tragic consequences, then the nation they're opposing gets the rotten PR? Isn't that part of psychological warfare? sno0wl hold on a sec, the boy in question died four years ago, well before the recent intifada. So lets assume for the moment that the boy WAS trowing stones at cars (which the killer even says was a suspicion) that does not give him or ANYONE the right to beat him to death with a pistol ! think about it sno0wl, if a punk kid in the states or UK threw a stone at your car and you pistol whipped him to death, do you think you would get away with it ? Do you think any true demecracy would let you get away with it ? lets turn this around and say that your child threw a stone at someones car, would you be happy with allowing the killer of your child to go free ? Also lets keep in mind here the boy was 10 years old (according to the BBC). GOOLIE _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker?
-Caveat Lector- What are you on man ? Ariel Sharon, was found directly responsible for massacres of palestinians in UN shelters. Mere civilans just trying to survive in UN encampments, when along comes 'the buldozer'. It wasnt even 2 or 20 people that he was responsible for killing, the total tally reached the hundreds. The next time you see Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon talking politely to Ted Koppel on "Nightline," I want you to remember that behind that phony smile is the conscience of a killer. He's the premeditated murderer of U.S. diplomats/hundreds of humans. The next time you hear about the need for a Palestinian state/security, I want you to remember that the leader for life of that nation will be Yasser Arafat/Ariel Sharon. Does that really sound like the foundation for a permanent peace? See it works both ways From: Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [CTRL] Murderer as peacemaker? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:01:26 -0600 -Caveat Lector- Murderer as peacemaker? © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com How would you like it if millions of your hard-earned tax dollars were sent to a little foreign dictator who murdered two American diplomats and got away with it? I'm sure you would not be a happy camper. Well, as much as I hate to upset you, dear readers, that is precisely what is happening with the millions of dollars the U.S. is transferring in foreign aid to Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Authority. Maybe you didn't know about Arafat's murderous record before. For that you can be excused, because the establishment press has not done much to expose this petty tyrant -- this killer of unarmed, innocent Americans simply doing their country's diplomatic duty. But once I tell you the details of this heinous crime -- this unforgivable act of bloodlust -- you won't have any excuses, anymore. If you don't act -- if you don't scream about it to your elected officials in Washington -- then you, too, will be tacitly guilty of rewarding a cowardly killer for his evil deeds. Here are the facts, as I revealed in a news story in WorldNetDaily last week: On Feb. 28, 1973, Yasser Arafat was overheard by Israeli and U.S. intelligence operatives planning a Black September terrorist operation in Khartoum, Sudan. His transmissions were tape-recorded. They were transcribed, and warnings were issued by National Security Agency personnel to the U.S. Embassy in Sudan. Unfortunately, the alert was delayed because of a bureaucratic snafu. A day later, eight Black September terrorists stormed the Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum and grabbed U.S. Ambassador Cleo Noel, Charge d'Affaires George Curtis Moore and others hostage. On March 2, 1973, after the terrorists' demands for the release of Sirhan Sirhan, Robert F. Kennedy's assassin, were rebuffed by President Nixon, Arafat was heard and recorded, once again, providing the code words for the execution of Noel, Moore and Belgian diplomat Guy Eid. They were machine-gunned to death. Until last week, no American involved in this tragedy had spoken out on the details of that tragedy. But 28 years later, James Welsh, the Palestinian analyst for the NSA who issued the first alert on the incident, went public with charges of a cover-up of Arafat's key role in the planning and execution of the attack. Think about it. Yasser Arafat just visited the White House a few weeks ago. He has won the Nobel Peace Prize. He is heralded as a moderating force for compromise in the Middle East. Yet, the truth is, he is a cold-blooded murderer of innocent Americans. "No one wants to touch this thing," Welsh says. "It's a hot potato. No one wants to be responsible for derailing the Mideast peace process." But Welsh thinks the American people, who are footing much of the bill for Arafat's current activities, have a right to know about his personal responsibility for the murder of two Americans. And he is the first American involved directly in the affair to charge publicly what has long been rumored -- that Arafat ordered the embassy takeover and the murders of the American diplomats. "I have decided that my oaths of secrecy must give way to my sense of right and wrong," he told WorldNetDaily. While there is no statute of limitations on murder, one critical piece of evidence needed for an indictment is missing -- the tape-recordings. They have never been produced by the NSA, the Central Intelligence Agency or the State Department. "These tapes do exist," claims Welsh. "I participated in their production. But no one has ever been willing to come forward and acknowledge their existence." Over the years, there have been reports that the Israelis also had tapes of Arafat ordering the executions of the U.S. diplomats and that Jerusalem provided copies to Nixon. Gen. Ariel Sharon said in 1995 that Israeli intelligence gave tapes proving Arafat's culpability in the murders to the U.S. State Department and White House
Re: [CTRL] Osama bin laden
-Caveat Lector- So, if the american embassies are technically US land, then why doesnt the US hold the trial in abstentia ? or show the evidence for his guilt to the ruling party in afghanistan (as they have asked) in order for him to be extradited. i mean, if the US really wanted him to come to trial, couldnt the goverment even try to show what evidence it has? another thing, how come he has only come to light lately ? hasnt he been blamed for the bombing of the world trade center and an assasination attempt on the pope and we only hear of him now ? is it because of 'evidence' that has come to light recently (using the term loosely) from the CIA ? the same CIA that was underhand enough to flood the country it is defending with drugs ? im just curious From: Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Osama bin laden Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:08:30 -0500 -Caveat Lector- Well Johannes - Osama bin Laden is a Moslem and obvioiusly an avenger of blood straight out of the OT. So the Koran is a peaceful book and it makes me wonder about these so called Kings in Holy Land..recently Islamic law comes down pretty hard on people but look at this straight out of Old Testament - Rule of Law for Israel? And they put a price on Osama's head? Who once worked for our CIA and wants to restore rightful heir to throne in Saudi Arabia - So I wonder about the avengers of blood - even to the two men on a horse ..these men believe their are God's messengers with legal right to execute those who do them harm - even Clinton said "let them get the first shot"..but he forgets culpability law - and provocation - such thing even as fighting words... What do you think of this ritual legal murder keeping in mind a King or a Queen or a President can by Executive Action order execution of whom they please - as Clinton ordered execution of innocents at Waco for he used the Military and UN no doubt - look at the avengers of blood who now await him? He would probably rather deal with them than Hiliary Saba Those embassies - no proof Osama bin Laden did it, but he, is the bogie man is he not - a catch 22? USS Cole - I still remember USS Liberty The King James Bible at the Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Deuteronomy, chapter 19 "1": When the LORD thy God hath cut off the nations, whose land the LORD thy God giveth thee, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their cities, and in their houses; "2": Thou shalt separate three cities for thee in the midst of thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it. "3": Thou shalt prepare thee a way, and divide the coasts of thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee to inherit, into three parts, that every slayer may flee thither. "4": And this is the case of the slayer, which shall flee thither, that he may live: Whoso killeth his neighbour ignorantly, whom he hated not in time past; "5": As when a man goeth into the wood with his neighbour to hew wood, and his hand fetcheth a stroke with the axe to cut down the tree, and the head slippeth from the helve, and lighteth upon his neighbour, that he die; he shall flee unto one of those cities, and live: "6": Lest the avenger of the blood pursue the slayer, while his heart is hot, and overtake him, because the way is long, and slay him; whereas he was not worthy of death, inasmuch as he hated him not in time past. "7": Wherefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt separate three cities for thee. "8": And if the LORD thy God enlarge thy coast, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, and give thee all the land which he promised to give unto thy fathers; "9": If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three: "10": That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee. "11": But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities: "12": Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. "13": Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee. "14": Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour's landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it. "15": One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. "16": If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is
Re: [CTRL] Osama bin laden
-Caveat Lector- Let me rephrase that. Why is the US asking for the extradition of Osama bin Laden for the bombings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and not the countries (Kenya and Tanzania) where it actually took place ? I mean, if i shot a man in USA i wouldnt be expected to be extradited to Sweden. -Caveat Lector- How do you extradite a whole country? Not that I'd put it past the US to try. On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:21:34 - goolie smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- why is it that the US is asking for the extradition of Osama bin laden and not Kenya and Tanzania ? _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Osama bin laden
-Caveat Lector- why is it that the US is asking for the extradition of Osama bin laden and not Kenya and Tanzania ? _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
