Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, nessie wrote: If it's fake, then there's nothing to worry about. If it's real, then we're in really big trouble." I'm not so sure either of these statements is true. In the likely event that the film is "fake" (i.e, not of government origin), it's still a jim dandy instructional video for those who do wish to start trouble. I personally have incited a number of riots, including one in October of 1967 in that very neighborhood. Okay, I'm finally weighing in on this thing. It's an obvious hoax. ANYONE who's been to Times Square on New Years Eve in recent years (as I have) knows a few things: the crowd is only intent on having a good time and NOT on rioting; it is a predominantly white crowd; and there is a strong NYC police, fire, and ambulance presence. Since 1979, they've shut down most of midtown to vehicular traffic, turning the area between Times Square and Grand Central into one big block party... The police set up barricades in the middle of Times Square, creating an 'island' where police (many on horses), fire, and ambulance personnel can quickly move about to maintain crowd control...and they do... And really, everyone there is intent on having a good time -- a definite attitude of 'peace and goodwill to all men' prevails... Definitely NOT a venue to try to institute a race riot... On July 4, 1970 I saw an unprovoked police assault turn a peaceful assembly of thirty thousand or so people at the Washington Monument in DC into a furious near medieval melee in a matter of minutes. The gassed us for no reason. We were peacefully assembling as is our legal right. But for a POLITICAL reason. And that was 1970. Times Square on News Year Eve in the 90s is a vastly different arena... . . . but the world's full of young folks who aren't. There WILL be rioting on New Year's Eve. There's ALWAYS rioting on New Year's Eve. Bull. Only once in Times Square, in 1978 I believe...not really a riot, just some hoodlums setting fire to some cardboard boxes, but due to the crowd the fire trucks couldn't get in. No one was hurt, and no serious damage was done. Since then NYC has set up the 'island' I described above, and it works wellno riots, rarely even an arrest for being drunk and disorderly (NYC has a law banning open containers on the street, a law which is flagrantly violated on New Years Eve and St. Patricks Day)... Now THERE'S a holiday where I'd be more willing to consider the possibility of a riot breaking out...the St. Patricks' Day parade in NYC... June ;-) === No warmth, no cheerfulness, no healthful ease, No comfortable feel in any member -- No shade, no shine, no butterflies, no bees, No fruits, no flowers, no leaves, no birds, -- November! -- Thomas Hood: No! === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 28 Nov 1999, Andrew Hennessey wrote: My reading is that perhaps certain people stand to gain by inciting an armed riot, are there any banks around there etc ?? Not in Times Square. Big Virgin Records outlet, Disney, lots of McD's, Sbarro's Pizza, Subway's, Dunkin Donuts...and the discount ticket booth for current Broadway plays... June ;-) === No warmth, no cheerfulness, no healthful ease, No comfortable feel in any member -- No shade, no shine, no butterflies, no bees, No fruits, no flowers, no leaves, no birds, -- November! -- Thomas Hood: No! === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- . . . but the world's full of young folks who aren't. There WILL be rioting on New Year's Eve. There's ALWAYS rioting on New Year's Eve. Bull. Only once in Times Square, in 1978 I believe.. I didn't say it would be in Times Sq. I don't think there'll rioting in Times Sq., either, unless the cops provoke it. But there WILL be rioting. It will be minor and insignificant. Not to worry. What's interesting about this film case is the way in which the FBI allegedly suppressed it. It could be that they are just trying to show they're on the job and thus deserve to continuing being funded. They may even have set up the whole incident from the begining just to achieve that end. They do things like that. COINTELPRO isn't dead. It's tactics have been being refined for thirty years. More likely though they were just the ham hand klutzes we've come to expect them to be. We must take care tough not to assume that because often they act like ham handed klutzes means that they are not also capable on occasion of acting with great subtlety. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- .. Forwarded from the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: From: Ian Goddard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED? Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 9:51 PM The FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office recently had a webpage shutdown that had a video allegedly taken during a military briefing, according to a report in the Village Voice. The video reveals a secret Army plan to incite race riots at Times Square on New Year's Eve. The fact that the FBI and US Attorney's office intimidated the owner of the site and finally coerced his ISP with threats of shutting them down in order to suppress the video appears to support this conclusion: The video is genuine and the government is planning to create chaos on Y2K. Such an operation could establish the necessary pretext to activate Martial Law and end freedom, which is just what the suppressed video indicates. According to the Voice, "Both the U.S. Attorney's office and the FBI had no comment" on this case. Here's the Internet in action, the FBI may have removed the video from one site, but not from these sites, download it and make it known: http://www.rumormillnews.com/assault.htm http://moxy.wtower.com/mirrors/timesq.ram http://www.angelfire.com/ma/mauicool7/timesq.ram http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/11/24/013232mode=nested Here's the Village Voice article: == THE VILLAGE VOICE = http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/9947/boal.shtml == Published November 24 - 30, 1999 THE MONITOR BY MARK BOAL Subversive Filmmaker Attracts the Wrong Kind of Agent FBI's Shutter Speed Success seemed imminent. A local TV station was airing a segment about his Web site, and he began to savor those precious moments of microfame. No more dingy years of self-subsidized screenings; now there'd be an audience for his art. But then came the FBI. In a highly unusual move last week, FBI agents called mike zieper, an independent artist who goes by thename Mike Z., and "requested" that he remove his site from the Internet. When he declined, the FBI worked in tandem with the U.S. Attorney's office to persuade his Web host and its server to pull Zieper's site--18 days after it went up--without having a subpoena or court order of any kind. Mike Z.'s Web site showed an eerie but amateur video that purports to be a military briefing. The clip opens with fuzzy shots of Times Square, over which an unseen male voice describes a secret army plan to incite a race riot on New Year's Eve. "First Team," he says "you're all here by oh?four hundred," and he then instructs undercover black agents to "Give them a little of the Amadou shit, agitate it." The FBI was alerted to the site after receiving phone calls from people who thought its Blair Witch ?style footage was genuine army issue. The opening banner on the site read, "I don't know too much about this tape you are about to see. I got it from my cousin Steve who's in the army. . . . If it's fake, then there's nothing to worry about. If it's real, then we're in really big trouble." The FBI's call came when Mike Z. was at a friend's house last Thursday watching his UPN 9 interview. Suddenly, his pager hummed, and when he called the number back, it turned out to be the local New Jersey sheriff's department at his front door with two FBI agents in tow, wondering if they could come in for a chat. Then agents Dan Calemina and Joe Metzinger got on the phone and said, " 'We know that you have this Web site and that it has been getting a lot of activity,' " Z. recalls. " 'And we want to know how we can get people to stop seeing it.' The implication was obviously that I would face a subpoena or an arrest if I didn't [take it down]," Z. says. Instead, Z. contacted attorneys and put his computer in storage. But the agents made an end run around him. When Z. refused to pull his site, the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's office contacted Z.'s host, BECamation, the next day. And that was all it took. "I had no choice but to pull the site down completely or I would have lost my business," says Mark Wieger, BECamation's president, who feared that his own ISP would cut him off. Lisa Korologos, an assistant U.S. Attorney, requested that Wieger "remove the content so that it could not be distributed," Wieger says. (Both the U.S. Attorney's office and the FBI had no comment.) Wieger later apologized to Z. in an e-mail: "To us a $75 job is not worth losing our business over. . . . We regret that this has happened and to lose you as a customer." While Internet service providers are commonly subpoened by law enforcement officials, an attorney who specializes in cyber liberties at the ACLU could not recall a similar case in which the officers acted without a warrant. "I've never heard of anything like this involving the FBI,"
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- Actually the video is a fake. It was a way of doing something "cool" and be recognized for it. The main problem here is that the government got the site taken down the wrong way. They crossed the line in trying to coerce the site owner and the ISP into taking it down instead of using the proper methods (if there are proper methods to surpress the thoughts and expressions of an individual). They have taken away his right to free speech, and I do not blame the ACLU for looking into the legal aspects of it. Here are a few thoughts into WHY they wanted it taken down: 1. People are scared of Y2K. 2. We don't trust the government. 3. A lot of people would take the video as true. My $.02 Timothy C. Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- If it's fake, then there's nothing to worry about. If it's real, then we're in really big trouble." I'm not so sure either of these statements is true. In the likely event that the film is "fake" (i.e, not of government origin), it's still a jim dandy instructional video for those who do wish to start trouble. I personally have incited a number of riots, including one in October of 1967 in that very neighborhood. (see: http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/mutt.html) Trust me, it isn't very difficult. If people want to riot it only takes a spark to ignite their desire. If people don't want to riot nothing short of a frontal attack by police will set them off. That ALWAYS works. On July 4, 1970 I saw an unprovoked police assault turn a peaceful assembly of thirty thousand or so people at the Washington Monument in DC into a furious near medieval melee in a matter of minutes. The gassed us for no reason. We were peacefully assembling as is our legal right. But we are not ruled by laws but by men. They attacked without provocation. We all fought back, even the picnickers who had nothing to do with the demo and had simply come to enjoy the holiday. There's nothing like seeing your baby writhing in agony from a lung full of tear gas to radicalize you in a hurry. It took the cops about an hour and a half to push us as far as Georgetown where they wisely let us disperse. When night fell we returned en masse. They couldn't gas us because downwind from where we hit them was a live TV broadcast of numerous stars performing for a live audience. If they had gassed us the wind would have blown it over the stage and the whole world would have know that there was massive rioting going on in the nation's capital. We kicked their butts for a good long time. They fought well, quite unlike the indisciplined cowards of the NYPD. Then the show was over. The TV cameras went off and they gassed us. We withdrew in good order, fighting as we went. I'm too old for that kind of stuff now . . . (see: http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/rodney.html) . . . but the world's full of young folks who aren't. There WILL be rioting on New Year's Eve. There's ALWAYS rioting on New Year's Eve. It's one of the ways working folks blow off steam, like running amok when the home team wins. It's not a big deal. It'll burn itself out fairly quickly. It always does. And if the film is of government origin? Not to worry. Martial law wont work. We outnumber, outgun and surround them. They'd be hard put to even hold on to downtown. The countryside? Forget it. Ain't gonna happen. Politics is numbers. Do the math. Besides, why on earth would they NEED martial law? When unprovoked we're a compliant people who flock like sheep. Cows are more rebellious than we are. Martial law would be a superfluous and expensive redundancy. It's also dangerous and likely to backfire. Why risk stampeding us? Nah, doesn't make sense. Who then WOULD benefit if we stampede? (see://http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/5.html) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- Martial law would probably be welcolmed by US citizenry if it helped to stop rioting and looting that might occur if the Y2K bug turns out to be more than a glitch. If power,water,gas, and emergency services are not available there will be somewhat justifiable panic and anger. If shortages or outages last several days it will become chaotic,ie. in large cities. If the troops enforcing martial law also distribute water,heating and cooking oil, and neccessities; they will be even more welcomed by out of luck citizens. These are potentially perilous times. Martial law may be a stabalizing factor in such situations, but it is also an opportunity for those in authority to be abusive with their power and conrtol. They have no one to answer to during such times. There is also an inherent danger that they will not want to voluntarily relinquish power once they have gained it. (quirk of human nature). "Just in case" Executive Orders,millitary practice drills and readiness plans,and government and business contingency plans, show that no one is certain of the outcome of Y2K. Even if Jan 01 goes off without a hitch in the US,there may still be trouble comming down the pike because of problems in foreign nations. We are a global society and have been made purposely interdependent according to the goals of the New World Order. Financial depression and or inflation could be a nightmare even if all our power stays up and running and all our computers are fixed. March could be as dangerous for shortages as Jan. Most Americans are compliant people and desire some type of order. Many will not see the other side of the double edge sword until they feel the blade of martial law. That being that all their constitutional rights have been suspended. Imagine Peace,rationalize the need for heavy handed government,and think of justifications for extreme measures. Then you will be one happy citizen in the envisioned Utopia of the New World Order. Hopefully,Y2K will not be the stimulus that brings us all together under the big umbrella of a global government tyranny. You are not what you think. You are merely an asset or a liability according to your compliance and usefulness and the dictates of the conscience of those who rule and have authotiry during martial law. That is why I hope #1 that all bugs are fixed, #2 for workable contigency plans, #3 for benevolent authorities. I trust Joe six pack to resist millitary and financial domination even less than I trust the proponents of the New World Order's Third Way. Our public school systems have indoctrinated our citizens to bend to peer pressure or majority pressure. If most people wear this, or listen to this music, or talk in this or that manner---well, we want to be of the popular opinion or ilk. Once we graduate from school we are in tune with opinion polls,so that we can know where to stand and what to think. I assume that it offers us some comfort in knowing that even if the course we follow is wrong;we are not alone. If we are wrong about this one there will be a dear price to pay and there will be little comfort in seeing that many others have fallen under the heel of the same boot. I have read a response from the producer of the film in which he claimed to be looking to jump start his career with the Riot Plan video. It does not follow millitary protocal and does appear to be a figment of the producers imagination. However knowing that art often imitates life causes me to suspect that there could be some type of fire behind that smoke. There have been training exercises in several metropolitan cities that included millitary,police, and govt agencies (like FEMA) in tanks,helicopters, etc. The supposed need for suburban training exercises is to quell terroists both foreign and domestic. That would be ressuring if I had faith that the govt. was able to distinguish dissenters from terrorists. Ruby Ridge and Waco have not reinforced my faith in the govt.'s credibility or use of discrestion.-Karen Kerr DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL
Re: [CTRL] Govt-Riot Plan EXPOSED?
-Caveat Lector- hi, I've heard about Liberty, Guns and ammo and God regularly and not being american in a constitutional sense can only give an outsiders opinion so .. My reading is that perhaps certain people stand to gain by inciting an armed riot, are there any banks around there etc ?? If the video was made by your friend or your foe it only achieves one purpose - to escalate a sensitive crisis ... so who benefits Lets be cynical for a moment :) do you honestly believe any of the business men who stand to benefit from 'confiscation of resources and property and forms of transport' etc really care what George Washington said. Its a time honoured opportunity for 'redistribution of wealth' - your wealth, a demolition of property and assignation of wasteland - is a new real estate condo opportunity - allocation to a work party is really a new management opportunity for someone. The whole Y2K thing as far as I can see ONLY EXISTS as Political/Social mileage in the USA UK computers may be about to explode ... but its happy Tony as usual and england getting beat at Cricket - we're all happy europeans over here - nothing to worry about - and the only worry we're aware of as an issue is the next england team selection ... etc Of course there are evil agendas big plans etc etc But be wary of the motives - there are more simple explanations too - like cynical local entrepreneurs. Andrew Hennessey DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
