Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/1/01 12:51:31 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whatever it was, it's obvious that we, the public, were NOT meant to see something until a certain point of time...for some reason we were precluded from seeing the front of the house until shortly after this mysterious garage door opening and closing incident... June, do you think this man may have owned a television? Do you think maybe he had it turned on during this time? Samantha A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, Samantha L. wrote: Whatever it was, it's obvious that we, the public, were NOT meant to see something until a certain point of time...for some reason we were precluded from seeing the front of the house until shortly after this mysterious garage door opening and closing incident... June, do you think this man may have owned a television? Do you think maybe he had it turned on during this time? Do you really believe that while his house was a burning inferno around him, the electricity was even still working, let alone that he would watch television? But we WERE told that the authorities had Beck on the phone for some time after the fire started burning... June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On 1 Sep 01, at 1:44, Saba wrote: I hope that old bitch is happy now - a man is dead who did nothing other than say he was allegedly a Federal Marshall who trained dogs, and she called and they said no they did not train dogs and went around the neighborhood checking him out and he ends up with an arrest warrant. He also murdered a policeman who was serving a legal warrent for his arrest. If he was innocent he would have had the opportunity to present his case in court. Instead he murdered a policeman. Why are you ignoring this? Steve Steve Wingate, Webmaster ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES http://www.anomalous-images.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 8/31/01 8:51:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There was absolutely no reason to have burned this man to his death in this manner. ~Amelia~ You are absolutely correct. The fire could have been fought by the FD without exposing themselves to gunfire. It seems that if you don't fit the parameters somebody has established, you are an enemy that must be distroyed. See Waco. THEY didn't like their brand of religion. BHoward A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Amelia wrote: I watched this unfold on TV today, too, and was absolutely appalled that there was NO ATTEMPT to extinguish the fire. Not even when the garage was the only part of the house left. At that stage the reporters were saying that the authorities were still saying that Beck may have still been alive and capable of shooting at them. Right. They stood and sprayed water on the houses on either side and watched this man be burned to death and did NOTHING to stop the fire. Actually he probably succumbed to smoke inhalation long before the flames reached his body. But dead is dead. One almost has to wonder if they WANTED to destroy evidence -- just like at Waco. What is wrong with this country??? This on top of the people telling the woman to jump from the bridge leads me to believe we are truly a nation of savages. It's nothing new. Decades ago people were taunting people who threatened suicide by jumping from skyscrapers to 'Do it! Do it! They could have put out the blaze and continued to negotiate with this man but chose instead to burn him alive in that fire. This is inexcusable behavior. Fox News had a hostage negotiating expert on, who continually criticized how this was handled. First thing he pointed out was that they shouldn't have even attempted serving the warrant at Beck's home, the very place where he supposedly had weapons stockpiled. His second major criticism was that more time wasn't spent trying to negotiate with Beck, and that the teargas option was utilized so quickly. And another thing, not all parts of guns burn. They twist and warp and melt but would STILL be recognizable. There were NO explosions as would happen with a large cache of ammo. I, too, noticed the neighbors said only a few shots were fired but cleverly, they were evacuated so the assaulting officers can say anything they please such as the hundreds and hundreds of rounds were fired at them after the evacuation but the helicopter pilot would have mentioned such a thing and he did not. Exactly...which is why I suspect the fire was allowed to burn as much to DESTROY evidence -- or obscure the lack of evidence -- as much as to 'protect the firemen' This, Waco and Ruby Ridge are highly visible warnings to us of what they will do if we dare to stand up to 'law enforcement,' no matter what they are doing to us. There was absolutely no reason to have burned this man to his death in this manner. According to an AP report posted to another list, Beck was an ex-cop who had served on the Arcadia PD for a year, when he was let go due to 'not passing probation', whatever that means. It said that he had been convicted of burglary and 'impersonating an officer', although it didn't give details regarding just what it was he stole, nor when and where he served his sentence. It also didn't say what type of officer he allegedly impersonated in the past, for which he was convicted. I don't know if this will eventually come out or not but the truth is that the suspect James Beck is a former DEA agent Interesting. This alleged role was NOT mentioned in the AP article I mentioned above... who several years ago was arrested by the ATF for possession of machine guns. Wonder if this is the supposed 'burglary' charge? June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Saba wrote: A report was also given to media that this man wanted to give up but only if they promised not to kill or hurt his dog - this statement was made several times. I didn't hear about him wanting to give up if they promised not to hurt his dog (not that I'm saying he didn't)...what I heard was that there MAY have been at least one dog in the house, because the neighbors said that he had one, maybe two dogs, that he claimed were part of the 'canine unit' he was part of... And it seems to me that even if the guy didn't want to give himself up, he'd at least make sure the dogs got out...and especially if, as Saba says, he made it a point to ask that his dog or dogs not be hurt... Amelia mentioned that it would seem impossible anyone could have escaped from the building while the helicopters were buzzing overhead... But if you remember, for almost an hour the only shot we got from the helicopter was from the rear of the house...from that angle, one could only see the rear end of the car that was parked just outside of the garage, a car that was pulled right up to the garage door. One of the reporters mentioned this, and was told by the helicopter reporter that the police banned them from filming from any angle except the rear of the house... Which seems pretty strange... And then suddenly the helicopter was allowed to move to the front of the house...we were told that shortly before that, that the garage door had 'mysteriously' opened and then closed again... Why would the helicopters be banned from the front of the house until after the garage door somehow opened and closed again? What was it we weren't supposed to see? Conceivably someone could have been hiding under one of the vehicles in the garage, and crawled under the vehicle in the driveway when the door opened... Of course, maybe the door opened and closed again because the fire at that moment shorted out the connection... But if someone DID leave the garage at that moment, supposedly someone stationed out front would have seen -- and if they did, why wasn't it announced that someone had left the building and ostensibly been taken into custody? Whatever it was, it's obvious that we, the public, were NOT meant to see something until a certain point of time...for some reason we were precluded from seeing the front of the house until shortly after this mysterious garage door opening and closing incident... It's just another of many discrepancies in this story... The neighborhood they are quick to note was half million dollar homes - Actually one of the reporters stated that he had looked to buy in the area a few months earlier, and that the houses ran for just under $1 million...either way, we're not talking trailer park here...Beck had to have some sort of lucrative income to be able to afford either a mortgage or rent for the place... however, the constructin looked cheap and shoddy I don't know about that...after the roof collapsed, and the fire had broken thru the floor to the lower story, one could still see many interior walls on the upper level still standing...it looked as if they were built out of something more than just sheetrock and 2-by-4s... I watched a portion of it at the beginning but this woman - claimed she had called the Federal Marshalls office to complain because she thought he was not a marshall .so the began to investigate few days before the incident. I heard that woman, also...she actually said that 'they' -- meaning she and a couple of neighbors -- got suspicious about a month ago, and 2 other neighbors had actually started calling around to the U.S. Marshalls' etc. about 2 or 3 WEEKS ago, at which time they found out that the U.S. Marshalls don't have a canine unit, as Beck allegedly claimed. If you listened to this woman carefully, it wasn't clear whether Beck had actually ever SAID he was anything, only that somehow the neighbors were led to believe he was something he presumably was not, and Beck didn't try to change their beliefs... But later on, during one of their press conferences, a BATF spokesman said that had actually been investigating Beck for three MONTHSif this is indeed true, then it would seem that the neighbors' nosing around into Beck's background initiated yesterday's events, but did not actually 'alert' the BATF to anything they already didn't know (altho perhaps the U.S. Marshalls' were in the dark)... One would have to wonder WHY these neighbors took such an inordinate interest in Beck and the truthfulness of his alleged occupation...if Beck was the unasuming guy that all these interviewed neighbors said he was, seems to me most people would never think to start calling around to find out if he really was a U.S. Marshall or not So my guess is that Beck said or did something about a month or two ago to tweak the interest of these neighbors enough that they started calling around to verify his background...or that one of
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 1 Sep 2001, Steve Wingate wrote: I hope that old bitch is happy now - a man is dead who did nothing other than say he was allegedly a Federal Marshall who trained dogs, and she called and they said no they did not train dogs and went around the neighborhood checking him out and he ends up with an arrest warrant. He also murdered a policeman who was serving a legal warrent for his arrest. Actually the deputy who was killed was NOT serving the warrant -- reports stated that he pulled up on his motorcycle and was shot as 2 other agents were serving the warrant. The neighbor Saba mentioned even corraborates this, as she stated that she looked out of her window when she heard 2 or 3 'pops', and saw the deputy lying IN THE STREET by his motorcycle. The Sheriff's Dept. later corraborated this in their news conference, where it was stated the deputy arrived late to the scene, after all other agents were in place and 2 agents were in the process of serving the warrant. So it could be very possibly that the unfortunate deputy was the victim of friendly fire... If he was innocent he would have had the opportunity to present his case in court. Just like all those people at Waco and Ruby Ridge, right? Instead he murdered a policeman. Why are you ignoring this? It's not being ignored...what is being pointed out are all the discrepancies in the 'official story'... And I'll point out once again a big discrepancy regarding the murdered deputy...namely, why would Beck, if he indeed was the shooter, kill the deputy and ignore the 2 agents actually serving the warrant? According to the neighbor, only 2 or 3 shots were fired, not the 'hundreds of rounds' the authorities claim; her eyewitness account described the wounded deputy being removed from the scene by fellow officers WHO WERE NOT BEING SHOT AT... Why would Beck for some reason ignore the 2 agents standing on his front doorstep serving the warrant,and instead shoot a deputy who just drove up OUT ON THE STREET, and then not snipe at the officers who came to the aid of that deputy? But then allegedly fired 'hundreds of rounds' AFTER the deputy and the officers who came to his aid were gone? It doesn't make sense, and suggests that there's a lot more to this than is being revealed to the public... Why is the warrant they served still sealed from public scrutiny? A spokesman yesterday said it would be 'weeks' before the warrant is unsealed and available for public view June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- On 1 Sep 01, at 11:16, Bill Howard wrote: There was absolutely no reason to have burned this man to his death in this manner. ~Amelia~ You are absolutely correct. The fire could have been fought by the FD without exposing themselves to gunfire. It seems that if you don't fit the parameters somebody has established, you are an enemy that must be distroyed. In fact, after the early moments of the firefighters' presence, the stream of water applied to the house to the left of the pyre (looking from the rear where the fire truck was), the stream was actually directed on the burning structure. After some minutes, the stream was directed away from the fire onto the neighbouring house. The fire truck was using a remote control device to aim the water so ... anyway, the danger to the top of the hook 'n ladders' nozzles was the same regardless of which house was being doused. It seems to me that the place was allowed to burn as an act of revenge (Waco, too?). The police are hired to prevent acts of vigilantism, correct? AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: Real Story About CA Shooting? More on Beck
-Caveat Lector- There was a woman interviewed on Tv telephone only - she stated the guy attended block parties, etc., that we are a close knit family here..she then said that she was suspicious of this man for he had told her he was a Federal Marshalland into canine training. A report was also given to media that this man wanted to give up but only if they promised not to kill or hurt his dog - this statement was made several times. The neighborhood they are quick to note was half million dollar homes - however, the constructin looked cheap and shoddy - the man also was throwing canisters out of the window - for more than one tear gas canister was tossed into the house. I watched a portion of it at the beginning but this woman - claimed she had called the Federal Marshalls office to complain because she thought he was not a marshall .so the began to investigate few days before the incident. Now in Columbus they used to take Federal Marshalls off the streets advertising for them in newspapers; this jewish mafia lot, two were going to get Federal Marshall badges and during this same time frame Elvis Presley was attempting to get one - consider Jay Leno running aorund with these other movie actors, etc., carrying guns and were made deputy Sheriffs, etc. The man had done nothing according to what I heard - except this woman and you could hear her kid yelling in the back, thought he was lying about who he was. So this led to the incident. Will say this, Gordon Novel once told me the BATF were the most dangerous people in the world and then said he considered the FBI worse after Waco - he was special investigator down there and had first hand knowledge of what really happened. Something wrong here - one thing - so worried about the other houses catching fire? Well noted how cheap and shoddy construction was all on slabs as earthquake area no basements. Hardly any yard boxed in - but then many homes seem to be built near a ravine where new trees are grown no doubt to prevent erosion; however, it looked to me like a good old fashioned rain and downpour which CA soon will be in for no doubt - and they might have problems. House burned like a tinder box.. This woman who spoke on the phone if what she said was true it is because of her this man died as he did - she reminded me of the kid at Littleton who called CNN rather than 911 to get on the air. In Ohio once there was a law in Ohio Code which stated it was illegal to wear masonic regalia and of course to impersonate an officer - in contrary to law but that does mean a lot more than just telling someone you re canine trainer with Federal Marshalls - the guy could have trained police dogs for law enforcement agencies. This Gary Condit's brother got 9 or 10 guns from the police in Modesto and had a small arsenal which was illegal because he got them from the deprtment where he worked One item said this Beck was a policeman from Arcadia CA who had been let go before his probation was up. Now they are out with the character assassination but here is a man who wanted to be in police work, didn't make the grade - maybe not stupid enough for them.the guy who was killed was supposedly riding up to aid on a motorcycle and the shot was accidental but fatal and knowing some of the police well something wrong here. I hope that old bitch is happy now - a man is dead who did nothing other than say he was allegedly a Federal Marshall who trained dogs, and she called and they said no they did not train dogs and went around the neighborhood checking him out and he ends up with an arrest warrant. And this idiot crying for the death of the officer - he was crying for himself for he was saying they had done nothing improper and he knew without a doubt he job ws on line. What else would one expect out of Los Angeles? Tell me based on what happened to this guy - and Waco - what evil element still lurks in these police agencies that hey believe they can bull around people as they did this man. Showed one spokesman, and I swear they come in types for I have known this bully type - something straight out of guestapo land... What did the man do for a living - he lived in a half million dollar home? He made a mistake by trying to be friendly and going to block parties with some bored stupid people and based on the words of this one woman - the guy is now dead, his dog too no doubt, and his house was burned down. Why the need for so many tear gas cannisters and somebody ought to check into the building code for I say this, these homes are pretty shoddy construction and somebody took a payoff and no doubt many bulding code violations.so close to these other houses .who built them .. Sleaze land personified. Wonder if the guy did shoot the officer or was it friendly fire? Saba. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list.
