[ctwm] Re: VCSage

[Richard Levitte]

2 cents...  if it was me, I'd choose between hg/bitbucket and
git/github...  not necessarely because I think they are the top of the
top, but because they seem to be the two most popular, and they seem
to be strongly viable...  and push come to shove, they are good
enough.

But that's only my two cents, an informed opinion.  The choice is
really yours.

In message <20140424052417.gy62...@over-yonder.net> on Thu, 24 Apr 2014 
00:24:17 -0500, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> > Well, I'll put together another mail to yack about VCSage.
fullermd> 
fullermd>   (Directly cc'ing people who've Author'd commits since 2008[0], on
fullermd>   the theory that they're the most affected by the matter.)
fullermd> 
fullermd> So in shuffling stuff around, the question of what to do with source
fullermd> repos comes up.  Current status: everything in mtn, Richard hosting.
fullermd> With Richard wanting to stop, and me not comfortable starting, we'll
fullermd> need that third option.  So, the obvious ways ahead I see are:
fullermd> 
fullermd> - If I had my druthers[1], I'd stick everything in bzr[2], and
fullermd>   probably tap Launchpad for primary hosting.  That'd let us setup
fullermd>   team access easily enough.  Could setup a local HTTP dumb-server
fullermd>   mirror beside the website as fallback.
fullermd> 
fullermd> - Keep things in mtn and host somewhere.  
fullermd>   and  have been found/mentioned as
fullermd>   presumptively available 3rd party hosts.  I have no knowledge one
fullermd>   way or another on their stability or other suitability.  Or,
fullermd>   somebody here who wants can setup a host for it somewhere and we can
fullermd>   point at it.
fullermd> 
fullermd> - Dump it into git and drop it on github.  Apparently that's what the
fullermd>   cool kids do nowadays.  Being the In Thing makes it theoretically
fullermd>   the option that makes it easiest for new contributors to jump in and
fullermd>   do stuff.  Whether that's really a barrier or would be a meaningful
fullermd>   gain for contributions to a C/Xlib window manager with a rather
fullermd>   small userbase in its 3rd decade, I look kinda doubtful at but
fullermd>   express no strong opinion.
fullermd> 
fullermd> - ... other options that all seem a lot lower on the likelihood scale.
fullermd>   Someone here like hg/bitbucket?  Resident nutcase big into darcs?
fullermd>   Groundswell of opposition to DVCSen altogether wishing we were back
fullermd>   in CVS or stuck in SVN?  I don't see anything aside from the above 3
fullermd>   that looks particularly attractive at the moment, but I'll listen to
fullermd>   ideas.
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
fullermd> So.  Opinions and suggestions from people likely to end up using it,
fullermd> on what it should be?
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
fullermd> [0] Which I was about to say is "the last 4 years", except ermigawd
fullermd> it's 6 years now.  Furrfu.
fullermd> 
fullermd> [1] Well, first, I'd get them appraised, 'cuz who even knows the
fullermd> market value of druthers nowadays?
fullermd> 
fullermd> [2] Discussions of why $VCS1 over $VCS2 from the using-it perspective
fullermd> elided.  If the topic's worth discussing we totally can, but
fullermd> there's no point decanning those worms before we have to  :)
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
fullermd> -- 
fullermd> Matthew Fuller (MF4839)   |  fulle...@over-yonder.net
fullermd> Systems/Network Administrator |  http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/
fullermd>On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream.

Re: [ctwm] Imakefile and install paths

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20140422161543.gn62...@over-yonder.net> on Tue, 22 Apr 2014 
11:15:43 -0500, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> Traffic reminds me, I wanted to bring this up.
fullermd> 
fullermd> A couple months back, I was converting the FreeBSD port of ctwm over
fullermd> to staging, which basically involves 'make install' putting the files
fullermd> somewhere else than where they will actually be on an installed
fullermd> system.  This mostly went as uneventually as could be hoped, but I did
fullermd> find one issue in the Imakefile that needed fixing.
fullermd> 
fullermd> 
http://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/x11-wm/ctwm/files/patch-Imakefile?revision=340372&view=markup
fullermd> 
fullermd> I _think_ that's actually a bug that should just be fixed upstream, as
fullermd> DESTDIR is meant as the install fakeroot, and CONFDIR/PIXMAPDIR
fullermd> already include the full path relative to real root.  But I'm not an
fullermd> expert in what Imake means by various things, so I figured I should
fullermd> get another pair of eyes on it before I pushed it upstream.  So,
fullermd> anybody know a reason it's wrong?

You are entirely correct, it is a bug.  I guess it was never
discovered because a lot of people will do this:

xmkmf
make
make DESTDIR=/whatever install

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Time for someone else to take over...

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20140422161013.gm62...@over-yonder.net> on Tue, 22 Apr 2014 
11:10:13 -0500, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 01:05:26PM +0200 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > I guess that interest is pretty damn non-existent then...
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > [...]
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > Deadline: mid may, I plan on pruning away free.lp.se and all that's
fullermd> > included in it in the weekend of may 17-18.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Ah, well, I read it as more a "hey, I'm not really doing anything
fullermd> here, somebody who is feel free to pick it up" than a "get it away,
fullermd> get it away, kill it!"   8-}

It's a little in between.  I don't really want to kill ctwm
permanently, it's just that I'm cleaning up the clutter in my life,
getting rid of loose ends, and I'm thinking that if I've no interest
in doing work on ctwm myself, having lie around on my server will just
have end up as a dusty pile of bits...  it's better that someone who
cares a bit more takes over.

It's Spring, I'm doing Spring Cleaning!  ;-)

fullermd> While I don't get time to do much, I do maintain an interest (hey,
fullermd> I've even pushed up 2 commits already this year! ;).  I can certainly
fullermd> take over web site handling.  Probably mailing lists too.

Do you want to have the member list for easy take-over?

fullermd> Code repo may be another story.  I don't feel like I know mtn well
fullermd> enough to feel comfortable hosting it.  A little browsing around only
fullermd> turns up one seemingly-live 3rd party hosting site.  So maybe it would
fullermd> be time to VCS-migrate as part of the process.

I suppose you're talking about code.monotone.ca?

fullermd> Richard mentioned the github mirror; it's a couple commits behind, but
fullermd> that's presumably trivial to update.  I'm not a big git fan, but it's
fullermd> out there and there are lots of hosting options.  I do love bzr, which
fullermd> has several hosting options, but while somewhat more lively than mtn,
fullermd> it's not by leaps and bounds sadly.  I'm not aware of any existing
fullermd> ctwm momentum or users pushing hg, which seals up the triumvirate of
fullermd> the common DVCSen (in my experience, anyway).  So with hg not being
fullermd> pushed at all, bzr probably only by me, and mtn not obviously
fullermd> attractive from the project management direction, it seems like we may
fullermd> wind up with git by default   :|   Well, at least it's not CVS...

Whichever way you choose to go, I'm sure you'll do fine ;-)

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Time for someone else to take over...

[Richard Levitte]

Wow!  I didn't quite expect this amount silence.

I guess that interest is pretty damn non-existent then...

Well then...  I'm thinking I'm going to drop this project entirely.
This means that it will have to move elsewhere, database, web site,
mailing lists.  Most of it is at your fingertips, all anyone of you
needs to do is to take the updated (make sure you've got all branches)
database you currently have and set up a server around it, extract the
web pages from the free.lp.se:X.ctwm.web branch and go! ... well, that
and resurect the mailing lists.

Deadline: mid may, I plan on pruning away free.lp.se and all that's
included in it in the weekend of may 17-18.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,

Actually, the subject line doesn't say it all, it's really been time
for quite a while.

Things are changing, life is going on, and I've been quite aware for a
while that I haven't lifted a finger on this project for a long while.
I've done some thinking on this and other stuff during the summer, to
see where I feel motivated...  and I came to the conclusion that my
motivation to keep working on ctwm has been close to none for that
long while, and that I really need to let go, let someone else take
over.

Any takers?  I've noticed some activity just recently, so I imagine
there should be some interest.  As a side note, there's a clone/fork
on github, https://github.com/sroracle/ctwm .  I believe this was
mentioned on this list some time ago.  I have no idea if it's of
interest.

>From a practical point of view, I can keep the web site, monotone
database, mail and all that running on my server, but in the long run,
it might be a good idea to move it wherever the one taking over
wishes.  Just tell me what you need and I'll help as much as I can.

Cheers,
Richard

P.S.  If there are no takers, I will have to consider simply dropping
the project.  Nothing I particularly enjoy, but...

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

--- End Message ---

[ctwm] Time for someone else to take over...

[Richard Levitte]

Hi all,

Actually, the subject line doesn't say it all, it's really been time
for quite a while.

Things are changing, life is going on, and I've been quite aware for a
while that I haven't lifted a finger on this project for a long while.
I've done some thinking on this and other stuff during the summer, to
see where I feel motivated...  and I came to the conclusion that my
motivation to keep working on ctwm has been close to none for that
long while, and that I really need to let go, let someone else take
over.

Any takers?  I've noticed some activity just recently, so I imagine
there should be some interest.  As a side note, there's a clone/fork
on github, https://github.com/sroracle/ctwm .  I believe this was
mentioned on this list some time ago.  I have no idea if it's of
interest.

>From a practical point of view, I can keep the web site, monotone
database, mail and all that running on my server, but in the long run,
it might be a good idea to move it wherever the one taking over
wishes.  Just tell me what you need and I'll help as much as I can.

Cheers,
Richard

P.S.  If there are no takers, I will have to consider simply dropping
the project.  Nothing I particularly enjoy, but...

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Re: Order of (un)mapping windows when switching workspaces

[Richard Levitte]

In message  on Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:46:52 
-0400, Stefan Monnier  said:

monnier> >> I've been meaning to clean it up for inclusion for several years 
now,
monnier> >> but never got the motivation high enough to actually do it.
monnier> > Sounds good! I'd like to see that patch, even if not fully cleaned 
up.
monnier> 
monnier> Hmm... I have it in a local branch, but my monotone fu is down to zero
monnier> these days.  Could someone give me a quick way to get the diff between
monnier> my branch and the closest ancestor on the main ctwm branch?

mtn diff -r 'lca(h:free.lp.se:X.ctwm,h:{yourbranch})'

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Location of official CTWM source repository?

[Richard Levitte]

You're absolutely right, the location of that description wasn't the
most obvious.  I've changed it to appear in the Downloads section.
Also, I've changed the crash course a little bit, it's now much more
adapted to what monotone can do today.

Cheers,
Richard

In message <20130213023648.422bd3e9...@c-24-147-244-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> on 
Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:36:48 -0500, "Michael O'Donnell"  said:

mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Bingo!  With those instructions it was trivial to snag my
mod.ctwm> own local copy of the sources - thanks.  Perhaps they could
mod.ctwm> be posted in a slightly more obvious location...?
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> What do we know about the downstream Debian connection and
mod.ctwm> some way to induce them to pull the latest versions?
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> >> Is the official CTWM source repository accessible?
mod.ctwm> >
mod.ctwm> > It doesn't seem to be directly linked, but the first part
mod.ctwm> > of  still
mod.ctwm> > gives good info for getting it (at least, that still seems to
mod.ctwm> > be where I'm getting stuff from).
mod.ctwm> 

Re: [ctwm] Some diffs I have locally

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20130211225532.gu22...@falu.nl> on Mon, 11 Feb 2013 23:55:32 +0100, 
Rhialto  said:

rhialto> Shall I clean up the commented-out code from below and commit, or 
should
rhialto> I not bother?

If it's debugging prints, I'd say remove them or surround them with
#ifdef DEBUG..#endif.  Also, I'd very much like if debug messages were
clearly marked as such, take this as an example (from add_window.c):

  #ifdef DEBUG
  fprintf(stderr, "DEBUG[DontMoveOff]: availableY: %d\n",
  available);
  #endif

For other lines, if you feel safe removing them, please do.  If you're
uncertain (for example if there's a line you've commented away but
aren't entirely sure that's the right thing to do), please leave it
there.

Also, I'd much rather have comments in traditional C format (you know,
/* ... */) rather than C++ format (//...).  There's a risk of hitting
older C compilers that will break on the // variant.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

[ctwm] Re: Did my SIGSEGV patch ever make it into the sources?

[Richard Levitte]

Committed and pushed.

In message <20121218194109.596a43e9...@c-24-147-244-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> on 
Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:41:09 -0500, "Michael O'Donnell"  said:

mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Richard,
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> I never got any response (positive or negative) from you
mod.ctwm> when I submitted my fix for the SIGSEGV problem that CTWM
mod.ctwm> suffers on occasion.  It happens that I've been out of work
mod.ctwm> and I'd like to be able to show that I've not been idle
mod.ctwm> during that time so I'm hoping to be able to say that my
mod.ctwm> patch was accepted.
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Now, obviously, my employment situation is strictly my own
mod.ctwm> problem and in no way obligates you to do anything, but since
mod.ctwm> the patch is straightforward and the benefit (both to CTWM
mod.ctwm> users as well as to my "street cred") is real, I ask once
mod.ctwm> again that you accept the patch.  Thanks.
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>   --Michael O'Donnell
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> ## REPEATED POSTING FROM JULY, INCLUDING PATCH:
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> For those who asked, here are excerpts from emails I've sent
mod.ctwm> to Debian regarding the CTWM crashes that I've repaired.
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>  #
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> A brief sketch of typical usage and failure mode:
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>I am running CTWM with eight workspaces (most are populated)
mod.ctwm>and switching workspaces fairly often.  The most active
mod.ctwm>X apps are xterm, Firefox, exmh and mahjongg.  I typically
mod.ctwm>have several Firefox windows open, each of which has multiple
mod.ctwm>tabs active, sometimes dozens.  Failure seemed most often
mod.ctwm>to happen immediately after I switched workspaces to one
mod.ctwm>containing a Firefox window with a *LOT* of tabs open.
mod.ctwm>I've not seen it even once since this I made this fix.
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>Note that I was usually able to recover my entire X session
mod.ctwm>and continue without harm if I could manage to launch a
mod.ctwm>new instance of CTWM from the console or an SSH session.
mod.ctwm>Until I patched my CTWM I actually had a shell loop right
mod.ctwm>inside my .xsession file that would automatically relaunch
mod.ctwm>CTWM when it crashed, so I was able to live with it for
mod.ctwm>several years before finally getting fed up and fixing it!
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>  #
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Here's a bit of GDB output to illustrate the specific
mod.ctwm> fauilt that was constantly occurring before I fixed it:
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>  Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
mod.ctwm>  0x0805f131 in PlaceOntop (ontop=8, where=0) at menus.c:3756
mod.ctwm>  3756for (t = Scr->TwmRoot.next; t != NULL; t = t->next) {
mod.ctwm>  (gdb) where
mod.ctwm>  #0  0x0805f131 in PlaceOntop (ontop=8, where=0) at menus.c:3756
mod.ctwm>  #1  0x0805f24b in RaiseWindow (tmp_win=0x83343a0) at menus.c:3787
mod.ctwm>  #2  0x0806ab10 in AutoRaiseWindow (tmp=0x83343a0) at events.c:218
mod.ctwm>  #3  0x0807096f in HandleEvents () at events.c:547
mod.ctwm>  #4  0x0804e3a7 in main (argc=2, argv=0xbff491a4, environ=0xbff491b0)
mod.ctwm>  at ctwm.c:1027
mod.ctwm>  (gdb) print Scr
mod.ctwm>  $2 = (ScreenInfo *) 0x0
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>  #
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> To: Debian Bug Tracking System 
mod.ctwm> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 15:42:25 -0500
mod.ctwm> Subject: debianBug#662860 - ctwm: SIGSEGV when changing workspaces
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=662860
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Package: ctwm
mod.ctwm> Version: 3.7-3.2
mod.ctwm> Severity: important
mod.ctwm> Tags: upstream patch
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> Dear Maintainer,
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> I'm a longtime CTWM user who finally got tired of the random
mod.ctwm> crashes that occur, typically when I'm switching workspaces.
mod.ctwm> I can sometimes go for a month without seeing them and sometimes
mod.ctwm> it happens several times a day.  I've analyzed this to the point
mod.ctwm> where I can see that code in DispatchEvent() is occasionally
mod.ctwm> leaving the global Scr pointer NULL which causes a SIGSEGV on
mod.ctwm> our next pass through the loop in HandleEvents().
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> I've provided a patch that adds a few lines of defensive code
mod.ctwm> which seems to have improved the situation, though I have not
mod.ctwm> analyzed the root cause, which appears to be that, for unknown
mod.ctwm> reasons, either XFindContext() or FindScreenInfo() seem to be
mod.ctwm> unable to return the answer expected of them.
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm>   --Michael O'Donnell
mod.ctwm> 
mod.ctwm> BEGIN PATCH:
mod.ctwm> --- events.c.b0rken   2012-03-06 15:10:42.093677349 -0500
mod.ctwm> +++ events.c  2012-03-06 15:19:52.369161662 -0500
mod.ctwm> @@ -435,21 +435,25 @@
mod.ctwm>   *

Re: [ctwm] serious bug of xterm on ctwm

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20121025102021.ga27...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il> on Thu, 25 Oct 
2012 12:20:21 +0200, Nadav Har'El  said:

nyh> The problem is that it appears that ctwm sets _NET_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK
nyh> but then doesn't keep this window 0x8b running.

: levitte@lapdog:~/monotonework/free.lp.se/X/ctwm
: ; grep SUPPORTING_WM * 2>/dev/null
gnome.c:  Atom _XA_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK, _XA_WIN_PROTOCOLS,
gnome.c:  _XA_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK  = XInternAtom (dpy, 
"_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK", False);
gnome.c:XChangeProperty (dpy, vs->wsw->w, _XA_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK, 
XA_CARDINAL, 32, 
gnome.c:XChangeProperty (dpy, Scr->Root,  _XA_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK, 
XA_CARDINAL, 32, 
gnomewindefs.h:#define XA_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK "_WIN_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK"


No _NET_SUPPORTING_WM_CHECK in sight.  Are you sure it's ctwm that
does this?

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] title bars are now huge!

[Richard Levitte]

In message  on Tue, 14 Aug 2012 08:02:42 
-0400, Stefan Monnier  said:

monnier> I use a local patch which changes ctwm so as not to use the "maximum
monnier> potential height" of chars, but instead the "average height of 
displayed
monnier> chars".  I guess I should clean it up and post it here.

Please do.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] ctwmrc

[Richard Levitte]

Aha!

>From the look of it, your X server isn't properly configured, it's
thinking the display has a different dimension.  The fact that some
lines of text have a grey edge and others don't is a dead giveaway.

I dunno how you configure things, there are a number of GUI tools
around these days, and I'm still at editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf...

Now, I don't know which X11 incantation you use.  As you might guess,
I use Xorg, so I'll take it from that one, please translate to yoru
configuration file (which looks the same, it's just likely to have a
somewhat different name if you don't run Xorg).  If you hack that
file, look for the Screen section, add a Subsection "Display" with the
dimensions of your display (you should have a man page xorg.conf(5) or
similar).

If you run Xorg, you can remove the Screen section, unless you have a
complex multi-display/multi-graphcard setup.  Xorg is pretty smart in
figuring out the hardware.

Cheers,
Richard

In message  
on Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:58:56 +0530, Ravi Uday  said:

raviuday> Thanks for the reply.
raviuday> 
raviuday> I have attached a png shot with 1680x1050 display.
raviuday> I am not sure how to find what fonts I am using.. Pls let me know any
raviuday> commands i could use on my lds server.
raviuday> 
raviuday> - Ravi
raviuday> 
raviuday> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Richard Levitte  
wrote:
raviuday> > In message 
 on Mon, 2 
Jul 2012 14:45:30 +0530, Ravi Uday  said:
raviuday> >
raviuday> > raviuday> Does anyone have a sample of .ctwmrc which works for 
display of
raviuday> > raviuday> 1680x1050
raviuday> > raviuday> Suddenly my fonts and code looks horrible :(
raviuday> >
raviuday> > How does the titles, ctwm menus, workspace manager, icon manager, 
that
raviuday> > sort of thing look?  Outside of that, it's in the application and in
raviuday> > the fonts available with your X server.  How are fonts served, are 
you
raviuday> > using xft or something like that?  Do you use ttf fonts?
raviuday> >
raviuday> > Cheers,
raviuday> > Richard
raviuday> >
raviuday> > --
raviuday> > Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
raviuday> > http://richard.levitte.org/
raviuday> >
raviuday> > "Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
raviuday> > -- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish
raviuday> >

Re: [ctwm] ctwmrc

[Richard Levitte]

In message  
on Mon, 2 Jul 2012 14:45:30 +0530, Ravi Uday  said:

raviuday> Does anyone have a sample of .ctwmrc which works for display of
raviuday> 1680x1050
raviuday> Suddenly my fonts and code looks horrible :(

How does the titles, ctwm menus, workspace manager, icon manager, that
sort of thing look?  Outside of that, it's in the application and in
the fonts available with your X server.  How are fonts served, are you
using xft or something like that?  Do you use ttf fonts?

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Evaluating our requirements

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20120109042459.gs72...@over-yonder.net> on Sun, 8 Jan 2012 22:24:59 
-0600, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> On Sun, Jan 08, 2012 at 10:45:32PM -0500 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Stefan Monnier, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > > fair conformance to C89.  What systems do we care about that don't
fullermd> > > have reasonably competent C99 support?
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > "C99 support" is unclear: e.g., AFAIK, gcc doesn't fully support
fullermd> > C99, tho it has supported many parts of it for quite a while.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Well, hence "reasonably competent", rather than "complete" :)  Total
fullermd> support is fairly uncommon in any mainstream compilers.

I have zero problems with the thought of "upgrading" to a more modern
standard.  Also, if it is important to keep support for uncommong
things (such as a 16-bit int), it's not really difficult to have a set
of support macros that do things differently based on, say, sizeof(int).

I foresee no real C99 problems on platforms like the ones mentioned
earlier in this thread (VMS, ...)

fullermd> In contrast, a lack of that fairly common subset would be
fullermd> more expected in obsolescent systems (AIXV3, say).
fullermd> Clarifying how much real pain drawing the line in various
fullermd> places causes actual users is what I want to draw out here.

Another view is to simply start working on it, and fix the introduced
limitations of someone screams...

Personally, I have an additional desire, and it's to check against
things like ICCCM and make additions to comply.

Those two things could very well be goals for version 4.0

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] [ANNOUNCE] CTWM 3.8.1 released

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20120108171059.gp72...@over-yonder.net> on Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:10:59 
-0600, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 11:11:37AM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > I'm releasing ctwm 3.8.1, [...]
fullermd> 
fullermd> For future releases, let's stick with dotted decimal numbers, and not
fullermd> have another X.Ya.  I had to swing a big hammer for FreeBSD because
fullermd> the package version comparison routines consider "3.8a" to be greater
fullermd> than "3.8.1" ("8a" being greater than "8").

Agreed.

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] [ANNOUNCE] CTWM 3.8.1 released

[Richard Levitte]

In message <201201051905.q05j5pkt016...@gromit.cs.bham.ac.uk> on Thu, 5 Jan 
2012 19:05:25 GMT, Aaron Sloman  said:

A.Sloman> However the 'make' command produced a series of errors which were
A.Sloman> removed by installing four groups of packages with these commands and
A.Sloman> then redoing the 'make' command (four times):
A.Sloman> 
A.Sloman> yum install libXmu-devel
A.Sloman> yum install libXpm-devel
A.Sloman> yum install libjpeg-turbo-devel
A.Sloman> yum install gcc
A.Sloman> 
A.Sloman> I presume ubuntu/debian users would compress 'devel' to 'dev' and use
A.Sloman> 'apt-get' instead of 'yum'

On debian, you currently need xutils-dev as well (to get xmkmf).

I see no problems adding that to README...  However, that information
is inevitably going to be aged sooner or later...

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

[ctwm] [ANNOUNCE] CTWM 3.8.1 released

[Richard Levitte]

Hi,

It's been a while, and as per a request on the ctwm list, I'm
releasing ctwm 3.8.1, which contains all the latest fixes that have
been committed on the main branch (see the README file).

The web site is updated with everything I can remember.

Following are the visible changes implemented in this version.

Changes from version 3.8 to 3.8.1
-

1 - Fix bug causing [de]iconified status of windows to not be
maintained across workspaces.
[Matthew Fuller]

2 - Quite a bunch of compiler warnings.
[Matthew Fuller]

3 - Make sure we fully initialize our WorkSpaceWindow structure so
we don't try to dereference uninitialized pointers later on.
[Matthew Fuller]

4 - Increased the number of supported mouse buttons again, having
just heard of a mouse with 9 possible buttons...
    [Richard Levitte]

5 - Fix a bug in the warping "next" function, where if there is a
single window and the cursor is not on it, invoking 'f.warpring
"next"' does nothing.
[Martin Blais]

6 - Introduce a new feature called "SaveWorkspaceFocus", which when
enabled, makes ctwm remember which window has the focus within
each virtual workspace. As you switch workspaces, the cursor is
automatically warped to the window previous in focus in the
workspace. This significantly reduces the amount of mouse use.
[Martin Blais]

7 - From Matthias Kretschmer :
f.fill patch.
Without the patch, you might get windows which are increased by
two times the border width more than it should be.  Additionally
if you place a window with no/not much size contrainst like
firefox in the upper left corner and perform f.fill "top" or
f.fill "left" the size of the window will increase by two times
the border width in width and height without changing the
top-left coordinate without the patch.  Of course in such a
situation the size should not change at all...     
[via Olaf Seibert]


Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Putting a development diff on the website.

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20120104104858.ga72...@over-yonder.net> on Wed, 4 Jan 2012 04:48:58 
-0600, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> On Tue, Jan 03, 2012 at 11:11:53AM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Rhialto, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> >
fullermd> > That made me think it would be better to just have a cumulative
fullermd> > patch for everything since ctwm-3.8a. And in turn that made me
fullermd> > wonder if it would make sense to just put such a diff on the
fullermd> > website, next to the release itself.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Instead of a diff, why not just do a tarball instead?  We could call
fullermd> it "ctwm-3.8.1.tar.gz", see...

... or both ;-)

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Putting a development diff on the website.

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20120103101152.gh11...@falu.nl> on Tue, 3 Jan 2012 11:11:53 +0100, 
Rhialto  said:

rhialto> Hi all,
rhialto> 
rhialto> I just committed a patch to f.fill code that I received from someone.
rhialto> He also asked me if I could add his patch to the NetBSD pkgsrc entry 
for
rhialto> ctwm. That made me think it would be better to just have a cumulative
rhialto> patch for everything since ctwm-3.8a. And in turn that made me wonder 
if
rhialto> it would make sense to just put such a diff on the website, next to the
rhialto> release itself.
rhialto> 
rhialto> Good idea?

That sounds like a good idea.  I'll see to it.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] new ctwm git repository

[Richard Levitte]

It's true that not much at all has happened lately.  But I wonder,
what data did you get?  Did you just dump the latest release into git,
or did you extract from the monotone repo?

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish


In message <20100827172005.ga16...@zion.home.local> on Fri, 27 Aug 2010 
19:20:05 +0200, Daniel Vogelbacher  said:

daniel> It seems that ctwm is currently a little bit unmaintained.
daniel> I'm using it about 2 years, and for me it's working great. Because I
daniel> want to use it in the next years, too, I have decided to make my own
daniel> git repository - looking forward to maintain a usable version of ctwm.
daniel> 
daniel> Any patches which should be applied are welcome, maybe we
daniel> get a 3.9 release :-)
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> The public GIT repo is hosted at:
daniel> http://git.terminal.io/gitweb/?p=ctwm;a=summary
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> But to be clear: I've some other open source projects which has a higher
daniel> priority and I see no chance to fix bugs like flash fullscreen etc. by
daniel> myself. 
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> -- 
daniel>  Daniel Vogelbacher
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> 
daniel> web: http://daniel.vogelbacher.name
daniel> irc: cytrinox @ (freenode|ircnet|quakenet)
daniel> www.informave.org
daniel> 

Re: [ctwm] Strange effect when upgrading NetBSD and X

[Richard Levitte]

I run Debian [unstable] on my laptop, and switched to X.org a long
time ago.  Running 1.6.1 for the moment.

I have seen no changes in ctwm's behavior, at least when it comes to
the 3D effects (I think the only things I noticed were some distinct
font changes ;-)).

Is your ctwm compiled by you, or is it a package that comes with
NetBSD?  Could it be that there's been some configuration changes
somewhere that went unnoticed?

In message <20090512202328.ge...@falu.nl> on Tue, 12 May 2009 22:23:28 +0200, 
Rhialto  said:

rhialto> I have updated my laptop from NetBSD 4.0 to 5.0, which also means X has
rhialto> changed from XFree86 4.5.0 to X.org 1.4.2.
rhialto> 
rhialto> Now my WorkSpaceManager window and the pop-up menus look incorrect.
rhialto> 
rhialto> The pop-up menus are missing their "3D" highlighting lines around the
rhialto> sides.
rhialto> 
rhialto> The WorkSpaceManager seems to get no expose (redraw) events. The little
rhialto> window titles and the "3D" highlighting lines along the sides of the
rhialto> little windows disappear if you put something on top. I can force a
rhialto> redraw by selecting things inside, or simpler, switching to "button"
rhialto> view and back (pressing and releasing Control inside the
rhialto> WorkSpaceManager window).
rhialto> 
rhialto> http://www.falu.nl/~rhialto/ctwm-xorg/win1.png shows what it looks 
like,
rhialto> and 
rhialto> http://www.falu.nl/~rhialto/ctwm-xorg/win2.png shows the difference on
rhialto> my un-updated machine.
rhialto> 
rhialto> Has anyone seen anything like this?

Re: [ctwm] Fullscreen mplayer on ctwm

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20090106214437.ga2...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il> on Tue, 6 Jan 
2009 23:44:37 +0200, "Nadav Har'El"  said:

nyh> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009, Richard Levitte wrote about "Re: [ctwm] Fullscreen 
mplayer on ctwm":
nyh> > I've standardised it with a ~/.mplayer/config that looks like this:
nyh> > 
nyh> >   vo=sdl
nyh> >   fs=yes
nyh> >   monitoraspect=1.6
nyh> > 
nyh> > The monitoraspect is because my laptop has a wide screen
nyh> 
nyh> I will try to answer the rest of your questions tomorrow, and try further
nyh> tests, but in the meantime I just want to point out that the fullscreen
nyh> problem that I mentioned happens only if you use vo=xv, not with vo=sdl.
nyh> sdl apparently (but I am not sure - I didn't look at the code) uses its own
nyh> mechanism for going full screen, and this mechanism does indeed work, like
nyh> you saw. But with vo=xv, mplayer needs to deal with going full-screen on 
its
nyh> own.
nyh> 
nyh> The "xv" (XVideo) mode is the most efficient one to use if you have one of
nyh> the "accelerator" cards out there (e.g., any NVidia card) because all the
nyh> video scaling is done in the graphics hardware, not through the X-Windows
nyh> software; Thanks to the XVideo extension, I can view a full-screen video 
with
nyh> just a few percent (!) of the CPU being utilized. I believe that "xv" is
nyh> also the default mode for mplayer.
nyh> 
nyh> So can you try again with "-vo xv"?

I just did and it worked perfectly.  Here's what it says:

: ; mplayer -vo xv Cisum/sorted/Within\ 
Temptation/Videos/WithinTemptation-WhatHaveYouDone.flv 
MPlayer dev-SVN-r26940
CPU: AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-30 (Family: 15, Model: 36, 
Stepping: 2)
CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 1 3DNow2: 1 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
This codecs.conf is too old and incompatible with this MPlayer release! at line 
6
Can't open joystick device /dev/input/js0: No such file or directory
Can't init input joystick
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote control.

Playing Cisum/sorted/Within 
Temptation/Videos/WithinTemptation-WhatHaveYouDone.flv.
libavformat file format detected.
[lavf] Video stream found, -vid 0
[lavf] Audio stream found, -aid 1
VIDEO:  [VP6F]  480x360  0bpp  30.000 fps0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s)
==
Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family
Selected video codec: [ffvp6f] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg VP6 Flash decoder)
==
==
Opening audio decoder: [mp3lib] MPEG layer-2, layer-3
AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 64.0 kbit/4.54% (ratio: 8000->176400)
Selected audio codec: [mp3] afm: mp3lib (mp3lib MPEG layer-2, layer-3)
==
AO: [alsa] 48000Hz 2ch s16le (2 bytes per sample)
Starting playback...
VDec: vo config request - 480 x 360 (preferred colorspace: Planar YV12)
VDec: using Planar YV12 as output csp (no 0)
Movie-Aspect is undefined - no prescaling applied.
VO: [xv] 480x360 => 480x360 Planar YV12  [fs]
[VD_FFMPEG] DRI failure.0.339 ct:  0.000   0/  0 ??% ??% ??,?% 1 0 
A:  15.0 V:  15.0 A-V:  0.001 ct:  0.007   0/  0 27%  8%  2.9% 11 0 
Exiting... (Quit)

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Fullscreen mplayer on ctwm

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20090106202118.ga20...@over-yonder.net> on Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:21:18 
-0600, "Matthew D. Fuller"  said:

fullermd> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 09:03:42PM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > In message <20090106155024.ga26...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il> on 
Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:50:24 +0200, "Nadav Har'El"  said:
fullermd> > nyh> 
fullermd> > nyh> Finally, I found the real problem: full-screen mode in recent
fullermd> > nyh> versions of mplayer does not work on ctwm (3.8a) :(
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > I have none of your problems...
fullermd> 
fullermd> For a data point, mplayer -fs has never worked for me in ctwm (nor
fullermd> have I tried it anywhere else; what's the point of X without ctwm? ;).
fullermd> But hitting 'f' to fullscreen it once its running has always worked
fullermd> fine.

I've standardised it with a ~/.mplayer/config that looks like this:

  vo=sdl
  fs=yes
  monitoraspect=1.6

The monitoraspect is because my laptop has a wide screen

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Fullscreen mplayer on ctwm

[Richard Levitte]

In message <20090106155024.ga26...@fermat.math.technion.ac.il> on Tue, 6 Jan 
2009 17:50:24 +0200, "Nadav Har'El"  said:

nyh> Recently I upgraded my Linux system from Fedora 7 to Fedora 10.
nyh> One of the changes which annoyed me was that suddenly,
nyh> full-screen-mode mplayer (mplayer -fs) no longer worked, and just
nyh> showed a small window as usual.  I looked at all the "usual
nyh> suspects" (nvidia driver, xorg, XVideo extension, etc.) but none
nyh> of those seemed to be broken.
nyh> 
nyh> Finally, I found the real problem: full-screen mode in recent
nyh> versions of mplayer does not work on ctwm (3.8a) :(

What version is that?  I used the following mplayer package for Debian
with the latest update of ctwm (3.9devel):

: ; apt-show-versions mplayer
mplayer/unstable uptodate 1:1.0.rc2svn20080706-0.1

I have none of your problems...

Not trying to invalidate your experience, mind.  I'm just trying to
see what we're up against and why.  Also, I think you'll find mplayer
defaults in /etc/mplayer, maybe there are things you should look into
there...

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte rich...@levitte.org
http://richard.levitte.org/

"Life is a tremendous celebration - and I'm invited!"
-- from a friend's blog, translated from Swedish

Re: [ctwm] Raising a window from an external program

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:04:57 +0200, Frank 
Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fsteiner-mail1> Is there any chance that EWMH will be implemented in
fsteiner-mail1> ctwm? I'm not sure how actively ctwm maintained and
fsteiner-mail1> developed...

It's been kind of quiet lately, but that shouldn't stop anyone.

EWMH could be implemented any time, as soon as someone steps up and
does it.  Right now, I'd say it's as much in the air as support for
all of ICCCM.

The basic mantra I go by is: patches are welcome!  Developers as
well.  Would you be the one to implement EWMH support?  You're most
welcome if that's the case.

Cheers,
Richard ( who might look into EWMH at some point as well, given time )

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Application-initiated window movement ignored

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:16:01 -0400, Stefan 
Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

monnier> When I try
monnier> 
monnier>   M-: (set-frame-position (selected-frame) 500 500) RET
monnier> 
monnier> in Emacs, the window is moved to position +500+500 with the
monnier> various window-managers I've tested, but not with my trusty
monnier> old ctwm.

I just tried, and it ends up exactly where I expect it to.  Where does
your emacs end up?

Oh, and first things first, what ctwm version do you use?  I use 3.8a
plus development changes.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Depth-arrangement of windows is not preserved?

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:46:23 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 07:58:02AM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > I don't agree with that, as tally clearly has a boolean intent.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Ah, but it doesn't; it's ++'d, not =1'd.  Clearly it's a
fullermd> counter, not a boolean.

You do realise that we've left the realm of technological precision
and entered the realm of human subjectivity (something that C
obviously allows!) a long time ago, don't you?  :-)

So you're zeroing in on the ++ and believe that says everything, eh?
However, considering how tally is used everywhere else, it's use is
boolean in the context that it is used.  The way it's used, I can see
clear true/false semantics.
I suspect tally was used a bit more, but that the code has gone
through modifications since.  This probably happened "before my time",
so to say...

fullermd> > "if (!tally)" could as well be "if (buf[0] == '\0')"
fullermd> 
fullermd> But it could as well be "if (!buf[0])" too.  Where do you
fullermd> draw the line?

You're absolutely correct, and again, we're in the realm of human
subjectivity.

fullermd> > That's misuse of a tristate value.  It can't be used as a
fullermd> > boolean.  This is a case where I agree with you.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Well, but I see it (as well as the above) as the same case.
fullermd> It most certainly can be used as a 'boolean' in the C if()
fullermd> manner, since it returns something that can get treated as a
fullermd> number.

Ah, but since it doesn't return a number that has clear true/false
semantics, I can't see it as a boolean.

fullermd> And I've seen it so used more times than I have the stomach
fullermd> lining to recall.  It's more amenable to such treatment than
fullermd> a pointer, come to that; it's only a tri-state, not a 2**32
fullermd> (or 2**64, for that matter)-state

No, the boolean semantics in C are clear: 0 is false, everything else
is true.  It doesn't matter how many bits are involved.

fullermd> > fullermd> a fair number of C coding standards I've seen
fullermd> > fullermd> mandate no explicit comparison for obvious
fullermd> > fullermd> predicates, and require the comparison when it's
fullermd> > fullermd> not).
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > Actually, I like that.  Now, all we need to clear is what
fullermd> > constitutes the grey area of what is obvious and what is
fullermd> > not.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Oh, well, that's the crux of the disagreement, isn't it?  ;)

Isn't it always?  I think it's called "being human" :-).

fullermd> I suspect that we've plowed this furrow pretty well by now,
fullermd> though.  I think we're doomed to disagree.  Worse, I think
fullermd> I'm outvoted  :(.  So, do you want to declare a Project
fullermd> Style on it, or leave it open?

Considering I view this as a community effort rather than My Project,
I view this discussion and the potential result the same way.  So I
suggest that we keep talking but also start building a document that
can slowly evolve to something we all (or at least those who care) can
agree upon.

One way to resolve endless disputes is to actually leave the point of
discussion open or leave it as a recommendation.  For example, what we
have discussed above could be summarised like this (I'm stealing your
examples):

  
  In all conditional/boolean expressions, it's recommended to have
  explicit tests unless the expression is glaringly obviously intended
  as a boolean.  A few examples:

 /* In this example, the function user_can_change() is obviously
intended to return a boolean value that it's unnecessary to
have an explicit test.  */
 if(user_can_change(this)==1) /* UNNECESSARY */
 if(user_can_change(this))/* GOOD */

 /* In the following examples, the resulting values from
get_next_window() and strcmp() aren't clearly boolean, so
explicit tests of the results are recommended to avoid
confusion and programming errors.  */
 while((tmp = get_next_window())) /* CONFUSING */
 while((tmp = get_next_window()) != NULL) /* GOOD */

 if(!strcmp(x, y))   /* CONFUSING */
 if(strcmp(x, y)!=0) /* GOOD */

  In all cases when your code can be confusing, you're leaving
  yourself open to possible critique and unnecessary questions.
  

The r

Re: [ctwm] Depth-arrangement of windows is not preserved?

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 4 Dec 2007 00:06:29 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> On Mon, Nov 26, 2007 at 11:52:00PM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Rhialto, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > I read "if (x) ..." as "if there is an x, ..." which maps
fullermd> > nicely to both integral and pointer types for x.
fullermd> 
fullermd> See for instance in vscreen.c:CtwmSetVScreenMap(); saying
fullermd> "if(tally==0)" would be a lot clearer than "if(!tally)"[0].

I don't agree with that, as tally clearly has a boolean intent.
I agree with you, though, that 'tally' is completely unnecessary, and
"if (!tally)" could as well be "if (buf[0] == '\0')".  And speaking of
style, I'm noticing that you and I differ when it comes to spaces
around operators...

fullermd> I certainly find that "if(foo==NULL)" is a lot more obvious
fullermd> than "if(!foo)".

I honestly don't see much difference, except if you want to be very
explicit about foo being a pointer.

fullermd> And don't get me started on when people writen
fullermd> "if(!strcmp(...))", which means just the opposite of your
fullermd> immediate impression.  Explicit comparisons make it
fullermd> immediately obvious what you're checking.

That's misuse of a tristate value.  It can't be used as a boolean.
This is a case where I agree with you.

fullermd> I read "if(x)" as "if x" and then have to take a mental
fullermd> fault to figure out "if x...   if x what?"

If you know C (and no, your brain doesn't have to be a C compiler),
the meaning is obvious.  What is less obvious is if the author knew
what he/she was doing, but that's a whole different matter...

fullermd> a fair number of C coding standards I've seen mandate no
fullermd> explicit comparison for obvious predicates, and require the
fullermd> comparison when it's not).

Actually, I like that.  Now, all we need to clear is what constitutes
the grey area of what is obvious and what is not.

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Re: mtn-isms

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:18:36 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> Richard,
fullermd> 
fullermd> > [...] How do other mtn-using projects do this?  [...]
fullermd> 
fullermd> Any thoughts on this?  Cert-less revs seem like they have
fullermd> bad side effects even aside from the seeming semantic
fullermd> imprecision, but all these obvious alternatives are pretty
fullermd> messy...

Didn't I already comment on this?  Actually, I don't have much
experience from other mtn-using projects except for monotone itself.
Quite honestly, I don't really see a problem, except for the fact that
things look a bit weird in mtn-viz.  (oh, and you mean "branch-less
revs", right?  ;-))

There's a very simple rule with monotone: no part of the history goes
away (branch certs aren't considered part of the history, they are
just certs...  markers if you will).  Of course, as long as your
revisions are only present in your own database, you can do whatever
you want as long as you know what you're doing, but as soon as things
get distributed, there's really no guaranteed way to lose any
revision.
Most projects that I know of simply adapt, and it's not even difficult.

Cheers,
Richard

Re: [ctwm] SaveWorkspaceFocus

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:39:38 -0800, "Martin 
Blais" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

blais> Allright, Rhialto, I looked into it, I'm pretty convinced that
blais> these comments out bits were just for debugging stuff.
blais> Sorry about that.
blais> Here is a patch that brings back these, and the SaveWorkspaceFeature
blais> still works fine on my box.

Added, committed, pushed.

I'm wondering if you missed something, though (see the 2 lines
starting with "!!"):

  > @@ -639,7 +635,7 @@ void GotoWorkSpace (virtualScreen *vs, W
!!>  /* /\* keep track of the order of the workspaces across restarts *\/ */
!!>  /* CtwmSetVScreenMap(dpy, Scr->Root, Scr->vScreenList); */
  >  
  > -/* XSync (dpy, 0); */
  > +XSync (dpy, 0);
  >  if (Scr->ClickToFocus || Scr->SloppyFocus) set_last_window (newws);
  >  MaybeAnimate = True;
  >  }

Are those lines supposed to stay?

(yeah, I know, I'm picking nits, but if can keep the code a little bit
cleaner, it's probably gonna be a win in the long run)

Cheers,
Richard

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-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Bug fix for f.warpring "next" with a single window.

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:46:38 -0800, "Martin 
Blais" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

blais> Hi
blais> I'm not sure where to send patches for ctwm, but I have a few patches
blais> that I hacked that are working miracles for me (I could not use ctwm
blais> without them anymore...). What is the procedure for merging in? Can you
blais> please review and integrate them?  Thanks.
blais> Here is the first one.

I you want to email patches, you've just used the prefered method.
The other option is for you to learn a little about monotone, create a
key for yourself and send it to me so I can give you write access.

Anyway, I've added this patch as well.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] SaveWorkspaceFocus

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:47:17 -0800, "Martin 
Blais" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

blais> This patch introduces a new feature called "SaveWorkspaceFocus", which
blais> when enabled, makes ctwm remember which window has the focus within
blais> each virtual workspace. As you switch workspaces, the cursor is
blais> automatically warped to the window previous in focus in the workspace.
blais> This significantly reduces the amount of mouse use.

Added, committed, pushed.

Cheers,
Richard

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[ctwm] Re: mtn-isms

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:52:03 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 01:41:35PM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > Ah, and the following explains it:
fullermd> 
fullermd> So, the question is, what should be done differently to
fullermd> avoid these broken bits (or at least pitfalls) in the
fullermd> future?  Surely there's some answer less annoyingly manual
fullermd> than setting certs on a bunch of revisions one at a time
fullermd> (and hoping not to miss any).

One way, a bit complicated but still workable:  I would simply have
kept hacking and committing into free.lp.se:X.ctwm in a separate
database (ctwm.fullermd), and when it was time to merge the work with
the trunk, I would have pulled from the main database (ctwm), merged,
pushed back and then pushed to guardian.

Even simple, though, is to just keep one database, but then hack away
as needed, maybe in a separate workspace, commit whenever you feel
like, and when you're done, pull from guardian, merge and push.

There's a description of a workflow model that touches this issue in
http://www.venge.net/mtn-wiki/DaggyFixes .

After all, monotone offers excellent merging capabilities.

Cheers,
Richard

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[ctwm] Re: mtn-isms

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:31:48 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> On Fri, Nov 23, 2007 at 01:16:20PM +0100 I heard the voice of
fullermd> Richard Levitte, and lo! it spake thus:
fullermd> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 05:22:30 -0600, 
"Matthew D. Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
fullermd> > 
fullermd> > 1) if the "off side" branch really is 
free.lp.se:X.ctwm.compiler_errors,
fullermd> >it should be visible to the rest of us, since my server accepts 
the
fullermd> >glob "free.lp.se:X.ctwm*".  There are already a few other
fullermd> >subbranches that prove this.
fullermd> 
fullermd> Well, that was the point of the workflow; X.ctwm.compiler_errors
fullermd> only exists in my 'ctwm.fullermd' repo, from which only
fullermd> X.ctwm gets pushed into my 'ctwm' repo, which is the one
fullermd> that talks to guardian.

Oh, right, I see, so the revisions got pushed but not the branches
other than free.lp.se:X.ctwm because that's the pattern you use when
pushing?  That makes sense.

fullermd> No, I did prop it:
fullermd> % history | grep 'mtn prop'
fullermd> 48  11:41   time mtn prop free.lp.se:X.ctwm.compiler_errors 
free.lp.se:X.ctwm

Ah, and the following explains it:

fullermd> No merge rev was created because X.ctwm's head hadn't moved
fullermd> since I branched off into X.compiler_errors.  4da549 was the
fullermd> head on X.ctwm.compiler_errors at the time I did the prop
fullermd> (and is still the head of course; I update'd my workspace
fullermd> away from that branch and don't intend to ever look at it
fullermd> again).

That's a special case where propagate simply adds a branch cert with
the target branch to the head of the originating branch.

Cheers,
Richard

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[ctwm] Re: mtn-isms

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 05:22:30 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> Well, OK  (and in my database, they're not on X.ctwm,
fullermd> they're on free.lp.se:X.ctwm.compiler_errors, so even a viz
fullermd> on X.ctwm there wouldn't show them?).  But if prop doesn't
fullermd> do so (why not?), how WOULD I have brought those changes in
fullermd> so that they got certs for the X.ctwm branch?  I mean,
fullermd> they're SUPPOSED to be on that branch now, right? Shouldn't
fullermd> they be noted as such?

1) if the "off side" branch really is free.lp.se:X.ctwm.compiler_errors,
   it should be visible to the rest of us, since my server accepts the
   glob "free.lp.se:X.ctwm*".  There are already a few other
   subbranches that prove this.
2) mtn propagate only creates a new revision that is placed in the
   target branch, it doesn't add any branch certs to already existing
   revisions.  But then, you didn't do a propagate either, you just
   commited 4da54949171b2cc1c5f467318daf87b683a77d9b into
   free.lp.se:X.ctwm, didn't you?  Or alternatively, you simply added
   a branch cert to it?

If you want all those revisions that are currently branch-less to the
rest of us into free.lp.se:X.ctwm, you will simply have to add a
branch cert to each of them, like this:

   mtn cert 6eb1af5f822cafe715c4e46f37ea3bc808e7a5f5 branch free.lp.se:X.ctwm

But you know, before doing so, I'd like you to recheck that there's no
spelling error in free.lp.se:X.ctwm.compiler_errors that made it fall
outside of the pattern accepted by guardian.

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Crash fix for when WorkSpaces not defined

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:07:27 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> > on my system already (OCaml?  Haskell?  What the heck?  Is
rhialto> > there some weird kool-aid they force-feed you when you
rhialto> > start developing a VCS?).
rhialto> > 
rhialto> > But I'm looking at log, and I don't understand why anything
rhialto> > would be disconnected.  There aren't any breaks in the
rhialto> > ancestry chain.  log
rhialto> 
rhialto> So I tried looking at "mtn log", and indeed, the revisions
rhialto> are actually connected. It must be a problem with -viz then.

It's not a problem, it's the way mtn-viz is designed.  It only
displays revisions from the selected branches, plus entering and
exiting revisions of propagates.  Matthew's "private" revisions do not
have branch certs (except in his database), and therefore belong to no
branch, and are therefore unselectable (and undisplayable) by mtn-viz.

mtn log does it differently, it starts from a specified or impled
revision and simply follows the edges.  It doesn't care if it ends up
displaying other branches or revisions that have no branch certs.

The only "problem" with mtn-viz would be that there's no way to select
branch-less revisions for display.  That might be an enhancement worth
suggesting...

rhialto> Did you look at http://www.falu.nl/~rhialto/monotone.png ? It
rhialto> should show it clearly, I think. Annoying that monotone-viz
rhialto> doesn't show everything - an incorrect visualisation spoils
rhialto> everything...

... not if you understand the workings...

BTW, if you're interested, mtn log takes a --diffs option...

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Crash fix for when WorkSpaces not defined

[Richard Levitte]

Actually, it's less weird than you might think.  I assume that Matthew
did some hacking in a branch of his own, but since that branch is most
probably not among those he's allowed to write to, the revisions
themselves come over, but the branch certs do not.

So basically, the edge between e07ab7de496e218dc324fe3a9cb66d85dde116d8
and a97d0dcc8eaf6e94ce9190d98913789d9dbbd37f represent the move from
the ctwm branch to Matthew's private hackng branch, and the edge
between 6eb1af5f822cafe715c4e46f37ea3bc808e7a5f5 and
4da54949171b2cc1c5f467318daf87b683a77d9b represent the move back into
the ctwm branch.

Cheers,
Richard

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:00:33 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> I pulled a new monotone repository and looked at it with monotone-viz,
rhialto> and something weird is going on. Maybe it's a monotone bug, or it may 
be
rhialto> with monotone-viz.
rhialto> 
rhialto> There is a Revision: a97d0dcc8eaf6e94ce9190d98913789d9dbbd37f (Add in a
rhialto> prototype for yyparse() to quiet compiler warnings.) which "goes
rhialto> nowhere" (it has a blocked instead of a solid box) and even stranger a
rhialto> Revision: 6eb1af5f822cafe715c4e46f37ea3bc808e7a5f5 (Move another
rhialto> twmrc_error_prefix() extern to global scope.) which comes from nowhere.
rhialto> 
rhialto> Normally the blocked boxes mean that there are connections, but they 
are
rhialto> just not shown in the current view. However I think I'm viewing
rhialto> everything but there is still no link. I suspect there is a link 
between
rhialto> these two (maybe even with some intermediary revision) but some bug
rhialto> prevents me from seeing it.
rhialto> 
rhialto> My versions are "monotone 0.36 (base revision:
rhialto> e4bc808d89e029ce623f9e8f2b10c84006b83fb5)" and "monotone-viz 0.15 (base
rhialto> revision: )"

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Re: [ctwm] Depth-arrangement of windows is not preserved?

[Richard Levitte]

> - Underscores good.  CamelCase bad.

I generally agree, except CamelCase seems to be the general X11
style.  I've no problem adapting to that.

fullermd> - Defining functions with a newline before the function name
fullermd>   sure does make finding stuff easier.
fullermd> 
fullermd>   void
fullermd>   foobar(blah)
fullermd> 
fullermd>   not
fullermd> 
fullermd>   void foobar(blah)

The former is yet one of those things that make me cringe.  I can't
see how it's hard to search the latter...

fullermd> - Implicit comparisons as boolean (e.g., "if(x)" instead of
fullermd>   "if(x!=NULL)" and equivalents for numerics) bad.

Why?

fullermd> - I don't like multi-line comments that start on their first
fullermd>   line...

Why?

fullermd> - Urg, there are array references with spaces before the [
fullermd>   too.  And some function calls with MANY spaces before the
fullermd>   (; see workmgr.c around line 1700.

Agreed.

fullermd> - We should probably have less commented out code.  Unless
fullermd>   it's clarifying something, or commented out rather short
fullermd>   term...   well, we've got a VCS after all.  That's what
fullermd>   it's for.

I assume you're not talking about conditional code...

fullermd> And other stuff that I've managed to put out of mind,
fullermd> probably.  We should hash out the One True Ctwm Style and be
fullermd> done with it, so we can use it for new code and convert
fullermd> existing code as we're messing with it.

Agreed.  I suggest starting to write a file HACKING and tweak it until
we're all agreeing enough.

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Special window-manager modifier not working

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 16:19:09 -0500, Stefan 
Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

monnier> I have a strong suspicion that this is linked to some nasty Gnome or
monnier> XKBsomething intrusion, but since I know nothing about that, I'm at
monnier> a loss.
monnier> 
monnier> Does someone here have an idea where I might want to start looking for
monnier> a solution?

How about a test account where you run ctwm raw, without Gnome or any
other desktop environment?  That could be a way to narrow the scope of
the problem...

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Crash fix for when WorkSpaces not defined

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:28:25 -0600, "Matthew D. 
Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

fullermd> When no WorkSpaces {} are defined in your .ctwmrc, parts of
fullermd> the structure used to track them aren't initialized properly
fullermd> in the code.  This can lead to crashes when those pointers
fullermd> are dereferenced; I came across it in the "TwmWindows" menu.
fullermd> I've pushed up a fix for this; see attached patch.
fullermd> 
fullermd> I have a sneaky suspicion there are more such land mines
fullermd> scattered through the code   :|

Good job.  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more things like
that...

Ehummm, I think it's time we take a look in the bugs database and try
to fix some of the things (or dismiss it).

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Modifying the modifiers for bindings...

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 6 Jun 2007 11:44:41 +0200 (CEST), "J.O. 
Aho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

trizt> One thing I wonder about is how important is it to be so
trizt> backward compatible that we do support some 22 year old syntax
trizt> for a window manager that I don't know if we do share any code
trizt> with?
trizt> 
trizt> Maybe it could be time to make things more easy to see and use?
trizt> I'm not thinking of going xml (gosh I hate xml config files),
trizt> but as you, Richard, suggested.

Well, with my new syntax suggestion, it's still possible to retain the
old syntax for a while, possibly with BIG LETTER WARNINGS that the old
syntax is going to disappear with version 4.0.

The alternative is, of course, to just remake the syntax as we see
fit, release 4.0, and then watch the flood of people whose ctwm
suddenly doesn't work as expected.
Aho, I hereby appoint you as primary contact for that kind of complaint ;-)

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Modifying the modifiers for bindings...

[Richard Levitte]

Nadav Har'El writes: 


In other words, it appears that there never really was a need for the
inconsistent vertical bar in the modifier list, and a space can be used.


Ayup, I just looked in gram.y and found that the | is simply ignored (see 
the "key" rule and you'll see a line saying just "| OR {}").  I never 
noticed this before... 


Cheers,
Richard

[ctwm] Modifying the modifiers for bindings...

[Richard Levitte]

Hello, 

it's just come to my attention that we have a synctactic inconsistency in 
the bindings: 

 "F1" = c|m : icon|frame : f.dofoo 

The inconsistency is that for the modifiers, | symbolises addition (AND 
operation) while for the context field, it symbolises alternatives (OR 
operation).
Furthermore, I just had a request from a friend that | could really mean OR 
and & could mean AND, and that would make it possible to specify several 
modifier combinations in one go.  I'm not entirely happy with that choice of 
operators for backward compatibility reasons, but I could go with something 
like this (using , and + instead): 

 "F1" = c+m,s : icon|frame : f.dofoo 

That would mean the same thing as the following currently would: 


 "F1" = c|m : icon|frame : f.dofoo
 "F1" = s : icon|frame : f.dofoo 

What say you?  Good idea?  Bad idea?  At the very least, I'd like to go away 
from the inconsistent interpretation of |. 


Cheers,
Richard 

P.S. My laptop is without network, so I'm using a web interface to my 
mailbox.  This message will probably not look the way mine usually do ;-)

Re: [ctwm] Re: Font sizes off in ctwm-3.8

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:53:30 -0400, Stefan 
Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

monnier> > Prior to 3.8, ctwm had some problems with handling UTF-8
monnier> > and ISO 10646 fonts.  I don't entirely recall all the
monnier> > implications, but it's quite possible that the changes you
monnier> > see are effects of that correction, and it's also very
monnier> > possible that things can be made to work even better.
monnier> 
monnier> Do you remember where those changes took place?

The change was more about proper handling of font sets than ISO 10646,
really...

It's quite possible that the following revision directly contains the
change that affected you:  84588e8426c83b9d905d528ce6c093141439510e

Otherwise, the changes concerning locale changes are:
f2abcc859cca628f2b368c51e6451063743bce8d
063e316d67e823a9d9c8e8b732e585b3455eb198
cf86cef35ea848eecd9f8c843cf41d2109ea0ffe

monnier> > Would you like push rights on my server?  Send me your
monnier> > public monotone key.
monnier> 
monnier> I'm still very much a newbie with monotone and would rather
monnier> limit my mess-ups to my own repository for now.

Nothing stops you from starting a branch and hacking in that until
you're satisfied...  But it's your choice, of course.

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: [ctwm] Re: Font sizes off in ctwm-3.8

[Richard Levitte]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:33:01 -0400, Stefan 
Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

monnier> >> and the icon manager has more space around the window
monnier> >> names so the buttons take up more real-estate (and this
monnier> >> space is not regularly distributed: the text ends up
monnier> >> slightly lower than before).
monnier> 
monnier> > FWIW, I've seen this when I start up ctwm in a UTF-8
monnier> > (rather than C) locale.  I haven't gotten a chance to try
monnier> > and dig it out, though.
monnier> 
monnier> Indeed, I'm using a UTF-8 locale.

Prior to 3.8, ctwm had some problems with handling UTF-8 and ISO 10646
fonts.  I don't entirely recall all the implications, but it's quite
possible that the changes you see are effects of that correction, and
it's also very possible that things can be made to work even better.

Would you like push rights on my server?  Send me your public monotone
key.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] [PATCH] Icon manager not catching on to deiconification

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

For everyone's information, that change is now in the repo, and
Matthew now has write access as well.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [ANNOUNCE] CTWM 3.8a released

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Hi,

So, time for a release.  The reason there's a 3.8a and not a 3.8 is
last minute documentation fixes.

The web site is updated with everything I can remember, and I've just
updated freashmeat as well.

Following are the visible changes implemented in this version.  Of
course, there are quite a number of bugs as well.  That revision log
in monotone will tell you all about them.


Changes from version 3.7 to 3.8
---

1 - Global cleanup

There were some variables shadowing others, things not being
safely initialized, that sort of thing.
    [Richard Levitte]

2 - Fixed several memory leaks found by
"Nadav Har'El" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
[Olaf "Rhialto" Seibert]

3 - Merged in the f.movetitlebar command. By default this is bound to
alt-left-click in the titlebar.
[Olaf "Rhialto" Seibert]

4 - Fixed the following issues:
Poking at the code, it looks like InitVirtualScreens() is called
before the configuration file is parsed which would explain what
I see since there's no attempt to create them after the config
file read.

Moving the call after the config parsing causes things to work.

I've run into a few other issues that I fixed with the attached
patch:

- shadow menus on the right screen open the shadow on
  the left screen
- shadow menus on the left screen open on top of the
  window
- windows on the right screen disappear after startup
[Todd Kover]

5 - Adjustments to ctwm.man:
I noticed a couple of small errors.

One is that the window list arguments for the opaque
keywords are now optional, are listed with square brackets
in the man page.  The other is that the two Threshold
keywords are shown in the man page as requiring curly-
brackets, but they are not required or accepted in
configuration files.
[Ross Combs]

6 - improve algoritm to deal with mismatched geometry of virtual
screens

  - allow windows to be dragged from one virtual screen to another and
have them switch workspaces appropriately

  - handle restarts properly with virtual screens, including preserving
where windows were placed within workspaces regardless of which
virtual screen a window was on; preserve across restarts
[Todd Kover]

7 - WMapCreateCurrentBackGround() and WMapCreateDefaultBackGround() 
would skip remaining virtual screens if not all parameters are present.

  - small type errors. [Olaf "Rhialto" Seibert].

8 - There were some directives in the config file that wanted to set some
setting for all virtual screens. However since that list is (now) only
set up after parsing the config file, they failed to work.  Moreover,
these settings were basically meant to be global to all virtual
screens, so a better place for them is somewhere in *Scr.  They all
related to the Workspace Manager, so I moved them from struct
WorkSpaceWindow to struct WorkSpaceMgr.

The affected directives are StartInMapState, WMgrVertButtonIndent,
WMgrHorizButtonIndent, MapWindowCurrentWorkSpace,
MapWindowDefaultWorkSpace.  The window and icon_name, even though not
user-settable, were also moved.

This is basically change #7 above done right.
[Olaf "Rhialto" Seibert]

9 - Re-introduced TwmWindow.oldvs, used to avoid calling
XReparentWindow() when possibe (it messed up the stacking order
of windows). However, maybe the use of .vs should be rethought a
bit: in Vanish() it is now set to NULL with the old value kept
in .oldvs.  However the window is still a child of the same vs.
Maybe it is better not to set it to NULL and then, when *really*
changing the virtual screen, .vs can be used instead of .oldvs.

This whole "virtual screen" thing is unexplained in the manual,
which even uses it as a synonym for "workspace" already in the
introduction paragraph. (There also does not seem to be a way
now to test virtual screens in captive windows) I suspect that
all this causes lots of confusion, and when cleared up, can
simplify the code a lot. 

I also fixed up the horrible indentation in the functions
where I changed something.
[Olaf "Rhialto" Seibert]

   10 - Fixed interaction between "inner" and "outer" workspace
selection with "captive" windows. This was because the Gnome
"_WIN_WORKSPACE" property is used in 2 conflicting ways: for
client windows it indicates which workspace they 

Re: [ctwm] [rt.lp.se #132] It seems we have a memory leak or buffer overflow

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:59:30 +1000, Anthony 
Thyssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

anthony> Congradulations it is no longer crashing on two f.deletes
anthony> from the title bar button.

Thanks.

anthony> You can remove the  DEBUG::  lines for offset 'random
anthony> position' too.

Ah.  Fixed!  Thanks.

anthony>RandomPlacement "on" "-23+23"
anthony> 
anthony> Though with a negavte offset the first 'random' window
anthony> probably should be on the right hand side of the display
anthony> rather than the left.

Good idea.  Implemented.

anthony> Starting Wine/Lotus Notes Test.
anthony> 
anthony> Okay.. its popup menus are still appearing 2 to 3 pixels to
anthony> low.

Hmm, that's about the width of your window border, isn't it?  Could it
be that Wine gets some window information it doesn't expect?

anthony> I also just tried the default 'twm' window manager with this
anthony> and it seems to take the exact same problems.

Ah, not our fault then, that should make it OK ;-)

anthony> This makes the application usless in ctwm, forcing me to kill
anthony> it and start up a gnome desktop to use lotus notes.
anthony> 
anthony> Basically something very wierd is going on, that works fine
anthony> in gnome but not (c)twms.

Have this ever happened with another application that might be a tad
easier to find on, say, Linux?  Wine and Lotus Notes isn't really my
plate, I only use Notes at work, in Windows (because that's policy),
and grudgingly so.

Anyhow, I'm not going to let this issue stop a release of 3.8.  It's
time, and when I've released, I can give your problem more focus, if
that's at all possible.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #132] It seems we have a memory leak or buffer overflow

[Richard Levitte via RT]

It wasn't a memory leak and it wasn't a buffer overflow.  It was freeing an 
image that 
shouldn't be freed because it's in a cache.  This free was a bit misplaced:

> [levitte - Thu Feb 15 07:22:15 2007]:
> Symptoms:
> 
>   CTWM crashes when a second window is deleted.  Specifically, it
>   happens on the following line:
> 
>   add_window.c:1771   free(tmp_win->HiliteImage);

It freed the image unconditionally.

Revision 371210d5d3676c591bded9ce2e9d2d68e3d6f04a seems to fix the problem, and 
thereby 
resolves this ticket.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #132] It seems we have a memory leak or buffer overflow

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Prerequisites:

  A configuration where title highlight images are used, for example:

Pixmaps { TitleHighlight "xpm:foo.xpm" }

Symptoms:

  CTWM crashes when a second window is deleted.  Specifically, it
  happens on the following line:

add_window.c:1771   free(tmp_win->HiliteImage);

  and sometimes, it happens on the following line:

util.c:1618:if (hil && tmp_win->HiliteImage && 
tmp_win->HiliteImage->next) {

  In both cases, when I debugged, tmp_win->HiliteImage was (Image *) 0x18.

Conclusion:

  It seems that the TwmWindow field HiliteImage is overwritten with
  some random value.

This is the bug that Anthony has complained about, and I consider it a
showstopper.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] closing occupy window causes crash

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:38:24 +1000, Anthony 
Thyssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

anthony> This is the same found I reported two weeks ago! (no response)
anthony> 
anthony> As soon as I close two xterms using f.delete  CTwm crashes.

I tested that case, but couldn't reproduce it.  Didn't I tell you
that?  Now, considering we know a little more about the Expose mask
issue and have fixed some things up, do you still have that problem?
If you do can you tell us about circumstances, such as window overlap
and anything else that could affect the outcome?

As soon as I know this issue is cleared (as much as we can test), I'm
doing a release.  It's time!

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #131] [ctwm] closing occupy window causes crash

[Richard Levitte via RT]

This wasn't just due to the Expose mask setting that Olaf fixed in another 
ticket, but (as I 
know you identified later on) also because XKillClient, when done on the occupy 
window, will 
kill ctwm.  The problem is in menus.c, where the events F_DESTROY, F_DELETE and 
F_DELETEORDESTROY check that the window pointed at isn't the icon manager, 
window box or 
workspace manager.  However, there was no check to see if it is the occupy 
window.

Revision 6d4f57e7b16fb06a117e9c81742daf597221378d fixes the problem, at least 
for me (I 
dared trying it on a live ctwm, so I'm very confident about this one!).  With 
that, I'm 
closing this ticket.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Wed Feb 14 12:58:28 2007]:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> The windows opened by f.occupy have all the ctwm decorations, in
> contrast to the f.identify and f.menu "TwmAllWindows" windows. Aside
> from the fact I see no use to these decorations, there is one thing
> which is very disturbing. Closing this window using f.delete instead of
> clicking on "OK" or "Cancel" causes ctwm to crash.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Zvi.
> 
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #130] Expose events in Occupy window do not always work

[Richard Levitte via RT]

That's because the exposure fix doesn't work for something you do XKillClient() 
with, which 
is exactly what f.destroy (or f.deleteordestroy) does.  That's for another 
ticket, though, 
as this one is very specifically about Expose events.  Olaf, this ticket is 
ready to be 
closed, I leave the honor to you.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Wed Feb 14 11:44:06 2007]:
> 
> Updating  ctwm to this revision doesn't solve my problem. Ctwm still
> crashes (actually it stops with exit code 1) when I do f.deleteordestroy
> on the occupy window. Yes, I noticed that the problem doesn't not occur
> on f.delete, but rather on f.deleteordestroy or f.destroy. f.delete
> rather doesn't do anything to the occupy window. My .ctwmrc seems too
> large to attach it here, so I have put it in
> http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/etc/ctwmrc  for convenience. I hope
> it will shed some light into the mystery.
> 
> Olaf Seibert via RT wrote, On 14/02/07 01:57:
> 
> > Just when I think "let's file this for later", it turns out to be
> > simpler than I thought.
> > Just add ExposureMask to the Windows' input mask.
> > Rev. 0f08007b6f5a4f65296557d47e18a081d704fac8. 
> > not pushed yet since the server refuses connections)
> >   

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] Is it ungarbled now?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Please answer.  I apparently have a very tolerant mail server, so I
don't get the problem.

I believe that the problem is that minimalist didn't remove the
'From ' line and then adding more headers on top of it, thereby
confusing some mail servers and having them split the message at the
'From ' line and missing all the other headers.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: WarpCursor

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 8 Feb 2007 23:50:12 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> On Thu 08 Feb 2007 at 22:38:19 +0100, Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker 
wrote:
rhialto> > OK.  Between then and now, this is the sequence of
rhialto> > revisions since January 25th.  Could you try pinpoint the
rhialto> > first one where you run into that problem?
rhialto> > 
rhialto> > 6a94e9c5ce42aa64c1cbece480aea701556fa0f4
rhialto> 
rhialto> Maybe I'm trying it the wrong way, but I can't even seem to
rhialto> get WarpCursor to do anything even just before this
rhialto> revision. Or maybe there is some other directive in my test
rhialto> config that counteracts it, or something. I just added a line
rhialto> with "WarpCursor" without a window list.

Have you used mtn-viz yet?  It's the best tool I know to visualize the
revision graph, and with it, you can easily go backward in history and
figure out what revisions to update to and try.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: WarpCursor

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:22:32 +0200, "Zvi Har'El" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rl> Checking again, my previous update was in January 26.

OK.  Between then and now, this is the sequence of revisions since
January 25th.  Could you try pinpoint the first one where you run into
that problem?

6a94e9c5ce42aa64c1cbece480aea701556fa0f4
6b93da7dedbfdcbab63af78acea081bc4ff558a0
5c1558a3343a6d28788e7ed98184e35a4a0f9aff
8ed1875c1a4d1fc4c63a8d1997e119ac48e10282
f57437fb1b39b54220039d25d72ad76025d1e878
8a7ef3d3928b94639c97b4a5e51800f263bdf2bf
41be3beaa211bf3caf23d3e62041cf865920b4c6
0acd56e3399963382be80f5d00423b6595bc

Updating to a specific revision is easy:

mtn update -r {revision}

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] More things to clean? Release?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:17:08 -0500, Stefan 
Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

monnier> >> >> Well, I still have my OnTopPriority stuff, but I don't think 
anyone
monnier> >> >> has the time/energy to work on it soon,
monnier> >> [...]
monnier> >> > It would also be nice for switching workspaces, when mapping and 
unmapping
monnier> >> > windows could be done in stacking order to minimize Expose events.
monnier> >> 
monnier> >> You mean "it *is* nice".
monnier> 
monnier> > I do seem to recall that somebody said that they had made it, but
monnier> > actually I can't find any clear proof in the code.
monnier> 
monnier> It's just 'cause you're not looking at my code ;-) (that is,
monnier> the one with the OnTopPriority stuff).

Oh, you already have the code!  Sorry, I didn't get that (and it's
possible you've mentioned it years ago, but my memory is foggy).

Do you already use monotone?  Have you created a key for yourself?  If
not, do it and send me (privately) your public key so I can give you
write access.  If you need it, here's the crash course on how to use
monotone, if should be accurate enough:
http://ctwm.free.lp.se/monotone-crash-course.html

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] More things to clean? Release?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 1 Feb 2007 23:57:43 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> I say, clean it out. Expecially X11R6, I think we all have
rhialto> that release by now :-).

Done.

rhialto> So, summarizing, I have no current stuff to push or
rhialto> short-term plans for such.

OK then.  I'll wait and see for a little longer if there's anything
else.  If I haven't heard from anyone until next friday, I'll take
that as a "Go release!"  ;-)

(Anthony, how is your testing going?)

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] More things to clean? Release?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Hi,

I'm in a bit of a cleaning frenzy, and now that I've cleaned up I18N,
I'm on to the next, X11R6 (or USE_SESSION in Imakefile.local).

My question is, is there any reason NOT to defined USE_SESSION / X11R6?
If that's the case, I'll clean that out.

After that, I wanna to a release run, in the middle of February at the
latest.  Olaf, do you have something more that you're going to push
soon?  Does anyone else have something they think should go in?

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] A curious undocumented key mapping feature

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:04:04 +0100, Claude 
Lecommandeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

claude.lecommandeur>Do you know f.showbackground, the only usage is to show 
your nice 
claude.lecommandeur> background image to your friends.

Hah, no, I hadn't noticed that one!

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] A curious undocumented key mapping feature

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:21:04 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> I was idly browsing through the code for mapping keys to ctwm
rhialto> functions, and I came across something weird. Consider the
rhialto> following (undocumented) config file fragment:
rhialto> 
rhialto> "t" = m : window|title|icon|"xterm" : f.iconify

Yeah, I noticed the contextkeys rule in gram.y when I looked a few
days ago.  I was busy hacking something else (the button spec for
title buttons), so I didn't look further.  Thanks for looking further!

Considering it's undocumented, I'll assume it's an incomplete hack
that Claude may have had the intention of finishing.  Claude, care to
comment?

In a way, it's a cool concept.  I wonder if that can be used to
implement a "Hide all windows" function, like this:

"h" = m : "" : f.iconify

That could be useful, especially if you're checking something naughty
at work ;-).

rhialto> It is also not constrained by the context window|title|icon,
rhialto> it'll just do it anywhere.

That sounds like a bug.

rhialto> [1] As a side effect it shows funny stuff in the workspace
rhialto> manager and with icon positions, probably due to iconifying
rhialto> windows that aren't even in the current workspace.

I've no problems iconifying windows in all workspaces at once, but do
they end up in the icon manager of their respective work space or in
the current work space's icon manager?  In the latter case, I see that
as a bug.

rhialto> [2] with weird effects caused by the order of name matching,
rhialto> having the effect that if at least one window name matches,
rhialto> the res_name and res_class aren't tried anymore (and similar
rhialto> when at least one res_name matches the res_class isn't tried
rhialto> any more). When I tried it, I had 1 xterm that had changed
rhialto> its title and a couple that hadn't, so only the latter got
rhialto> affected.

It's at least worth thinking about what should really be done.

The really interesting thing will be to document this in an
understandable way...  And to decide if this is a feeping creature [0]
or not...

Cheers,
Richard

--
[0] Educate yourselves!
http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/F/feeping-creature.html

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Uhmmm, assignment as condition?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 00:33:40 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> But I'll change it to
rhialto> 
rhialto>if ((tmp_win->group = tmp_win->wmhints->window_group) != 0) {
rhialto> 
rhialto> or would you prefer
rhialto> 
rhialto>tmp_win->group = tmp_win->wmhints->window_group;
rhialto>if (tmp_win->group /* maybe add != 0 */) {

The latter.  That makes the intention clear.  And for the record, I've
no problem if you just remove '/* maybe add != 0 */'  ;-).

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] Uhmmm, assignment as condition?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Olaf,

in 785ff2b380a7e6daa98ceed789345ce373c4b5d9, add_window.c, you have
coded a combined assignment and condition:

if (tmp_win->group = tmp_win->wmhints->window_group) {

Is that your intention?  If not, you might want to correct t.  If it
is, I'd like to ask you (and everybody else) to avoid that kind of
construction.  They tend to be quite confusing when looking again
after a few years, the intention being unclear.

Cheers,
Richard

 -
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #100] Some key mappings do not always work...

[Richard Levitte via RT]

> [rhialto - Thu Jan 25 21:58:52 2007]:
> 
> Is this still the case in the current version? I have something similar
> and it seems to work.
> 
> # control alt delete
> "Delete" = c | m : all : f.exec "echo 'What do you think I am, a f*cking
> PC?^M' >/dev/console &"

Some time ago, someone suggested that I may sometimes have to hold down C-A-DEL 
for a little 
bit before anything happens.  This is true for me when a Emacs window 
(regardless of buffer 
contents) has focus (oh yeah, I use focus-on-mouse, if that makes a 
difference).  Oh, and I 
just discovered that I don't get a lock at all when Opera has the focus and I'm 
typing this 
message into RT.

So, yeah, it seems to apply still, but seems to depend on the application 
having focus.  
Can't say I quite understand what happens in these cases...

-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] [rt.lp.se #129] Funny behaviour of Occupy Window

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:30:53 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> I'm closing the ticket (well I'm going to try anyway :-)

It worked well.  I was only surprised to see it happen as part of a
separate internal comment, but I guess you figured by now that you can
do the closing as part of a reply, right?

Anyway, yes, the ticket is effectively resolved (closed).  Good job!

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Where to get latest ctwm beta

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:00:35 +1000, Anthony 
Thyssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

anthony> I looked around on the web but I can't seem to find the
anthony> latest beta for ctwm.  my last one was data dec 2005, and the
anthony> one on the CTwm website is older than that (though not by
anthony> much).

There isn't really a beta out right now, but I just uploaded a
snapshot, just for you.

Cheers,
Richard

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #115] CTWM Feature Request: Change Color of Highlighted Window Title Bar

[Richard Levitte via RT]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Tue Jan 23 02:02:07 2007]:
> 
> It is definately not a window managers responsiblity to chnage window
> contents..  That is asking for trouble!!

Uhmmm, I think you misread.  This is about the window title, which is something 
ctwm 
renders, not the application.  The application only provides the title text.  
So that 
argument is quite moot.

-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #110] [Anthony's wish list] Better info in the info window

[Richard Levitte via RT]

OK, thank you!

Ticket resolved.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Tue Jan 23 02:09:17 2007]:
> 
> "Richard Levitte via RT" on  wrote...
> | Gah!  Wrong picture!  This is the right one!
> |
> | image with  (UL) and (LR) geometry lines...
> 
> That would be fine.
> 
>   Anthony Thyssen ( System Programmer )<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  -
> The keyboard! How quaint. -- Montgomery Scott  -- StarTrek IV
>  -
>  Anthony's Home is his Castle
> http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~anthony/
> 
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Examples of programs that have real "group leader" windows?

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:38:35 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> I wonder, btw, what should done with "sqeezed" windows (aka
rhialto> "rolled up"): should doing that to the group leader also do
rhialto> it to the group members? Or unmap them, like happens with
rhialto> iconification?

My gut feeling says unmap them.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #115] CTWM Feature Request: Change Color of Highlighted Window Title Bar

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Does anyone have a comment on this one?  Would you say this is one of those 
"It's Not the 
TWM way!"?

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Mar 04 23:38:47 2006]:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I have a suggestion for a rather cosmetic enhancement in CTWM, my window
> manager of choice. It would be nice if highlighted windows' title bars -
> including the buttons - could have a completely different background and
> foreground colors than normal windows. It doesn't seem to be possible at
> the moment.
> 
> After looking at the sources, it seems to me, this would not be a very
> difficult change to make *if one knew what one was doing*. Alas, I'm not
> much of programmer, especially when it comes to X and window managers. I
> think changes would be needed first of all in the structures TwmWindow
> in twm.h (add a new ColorPair) and ScreenInfo in screen.h (ditto) but
> naturally also in the functions that draw the title and/the buttons +
> the .ctwmrc-file parsing. I tried fiddling around the sources, but found
> out that I don't understand the system well enough to get the result I
> wanted.
> 
> I understand that a change like this, whose only purpose is to make it
> possible to make CTWM look more like Motif/CDE, may not have a high
> priority, but thanks anyway. CTWM is very good in any case.
> 
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #109] [Anthony's wish list] Use of modifiers when handling title buttons

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Implemented and is part of revision 5b6a1cacc71313898a8d96fbba7b801ce3923ba0 
(newly 
committed and pushed).

Ticket resolved.  Thanks for the suggestion!

> [levitte - Wed Apr 20 04:46:05 2005]:
> 
> In my ctwm definition this is a special 'grab handle' to raise/lower or
> move the window. EG:...
> 
> LeftTitleButton  "xpm:tomato_dash.xpm" {# titlebar extension
>   button1 : f.function "MoveRaiseLower"
>   button2 : f.resize
>   button3 : f.menu "WindowOps"
>   # button3 = s : f.menu "TwmMenu"  # This is NOT posible yet!
> }
> 
> 
> As you can see in the last example, the events list for title bar
> buttons is NOT following the same event structure used by other things.
>  That means shifted mouse buttons can not be used, even though I can use
> shifted mouse buttons on the title bar proper.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #110] [Anthony's wish list] Better info in the info window

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Gah!  Wrong picture!  This is the right one!

-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #110] [Anthony's wish list] Better info in the info window

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Gah!  Wrong picture!  This is the right one!

-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #110] [Anthony's wish list] Better info in the info window

[Richard Levitte via RT]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Mon Jan 22 08:43:01 2007]:
> 
> "Richard Levitte via RT" on  wrote...
> | Hey Anthony, if you're still around (this was a while ago), can you
> | tell me if the current information display is good enough, so I know
> | if I should close this ticket?
> |
> | I'm a little confused by the request for negative position.  Could
> you
> | give me an example of what that would look like?
> |
> That was some time ago.  i was thinging that info could display the
> windows position as a negative offset as well so you can add that as a
> position geometry in the programs startup.  EG relative to the bottom
> or
> right edges.

Would something like the attached image would be good enough?

> But all my problems with ctwm is currently with its handling of Lotus
> Notes in Wine!

That's a different issue, please issue a new ticket for it.

-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #48] ctwm extra color for focussed window title

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Since noone has reacted, added any wishes or responded much at all, I'm 
throwing away this ticket.  If this is a wanted feature, I'm sure it will 
appear again.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Mon Feb 28 08:16:46 2005]:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I wrote the original feature request.
> 
> > Hmm, the keyword pair TitleTextForeground/TitleTextBackground, perhaps?
> > 
> > I've to decide, of course, if this will go into 3.7 or will have until 
> > later...
> 
> I'm not using ctwm anymore, so either way suits me. ;-)
> 
> mkb.
> 
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #123] MapWindowCurrentWorkSpace directive has no effect.

[Richard Levitte via RT]

OK, closing this ticket.
Thanks!

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Jan 20 19:17:28 2007]:
> 
> On Sat 20 Jan 2007 at 19:05:36 +0100, Richard Levitte via RT wrote:
> > Hey Olaf, didn't you solve this with your latest changes?
> 
> Yep, and on my system it still works correctly.
> 
> -Olaf.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #106] Annoying autoraise/raisedelay problem

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Is this error still applicable?  I can't see that anyone has responded to this 
at all.  Olaf, is the change you're working on related to this?

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Wed Feb 23 13:57:00 2005]:
> 
> As mentioned before, I love CTWM and I would hate to have to switch to
> another WM. But there is this one small very annoying problem that
> keeps bugging me, and this is the only reason I once in a while even
> think about switching.
> 
> I'm using AutoRaise + RaiseDelay. Works like a charm (and is very
> addictive). 
> 
> But when I run Firefox (or any other GUI tool), I get the following
> behaviour. For example, I click once on "File". The File menu drops
> down. Then I move the pointer to "Edit". The File menu disappears and
> the Edit menu drops down -- and disappears behind the main window
> after the RaiseDelay. I move the pointer to "View" and the view menu
> drops down. Move to "Go" and the "Go" menu drops down and disappears,
> and so on.
> 
> Many GUI applications show this kind of (mis)behaviour. 
> 
> Time has passed since I last put this on this list. Maybe someone has
> found something in the mean time?
> 
> -- Johan
> 
> 
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #108] [Anthony's wish list] RandomPlacement styles

[Richard Levitte via RT]

I just implemented, tested and committed this.  The enhancement is on the 
RandomPlacement statement itself by having it take a second argument that 
specifies the displacement.

> [levitte - Wed Apr 20 04:42:59 2005]:
> 
> [This was originally part of entry #107, submitted by Anthony Thyssen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> 
> I'd love to specify some "RandomPlacement"  styles.  Currently windows
> are placed +30+30 from the last random placment.  Eg: next window is
> below and to right of previous random placement.
> 
> I'd love to specify things like -22+22  (eg next window is only below
> but to left of previous window.  This way only the title bar is visible,
> but the stair case ensures the first "LeftTitleButton" button (with
> "NoDefaults") is always visible, no matter how I resize.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #110] [Anthony's wish list] Better info in the info window

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Hey Anthony, if you're still around (this was a while ago), can you tell me if 
the current information display is good enough, so I know if I should close 
this ticket?

I'm a little confused by the request for negative position.  Could you give me 
an example of what that would look like?

> [levitte - Wed Apr 20 04:49:36 2005]:
> 
> [This was originally part of entry #107, submitted by Anthony Thyssen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> 
> The 'information' popup windows gives placement of the real window, but
> does not give the information displayed during moves and resizes.  It
> would also be nice to have the negitive position offset for this display.
> 
> This is the information that is needed for geometry arguments when
> starting the application, and is often the more usefull information.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #123] MapWindowCurrentWorkSpace directive has no effect.

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Hey Olaf, didn't you solve this with your latest changes?

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Dec 16 15:54:50 2006]:
> 
> In revision f0b709dcd5269fb88b748a2e5d54e259d0f66881 on 2006-04-22, the
> calls of InitVirtualScreens() and ConfigureWorkSpaceManager() were moved
> after reading the configuration file.
> 
> MapWindowCurrentWorkSpace {
> # border_color  [background] [foreground] [bitmap]
>   "Red" "Yellow" "Black"
> }
> 
> However, when the "MapWindowCurrentWorkSpace" directive from the config
> file is processed, it calls WMapCreateCurrentBackGround() which loops
> over all virtual screens, which (now) don't exist yet. So the settings
> don't take effect.
> 
> The same problem occurs when WMapCreateDefaultBackGround() is called.
> 
> I tried simply moving the calls InitVirtualScreens() and
> ConfigureWorkSpaceManager() back to where they were, but for some reason
> that produces a core dump.
> 
> I suspect that the solution to be found would be splitting the
> functionality of the calls to the 2 functions to a part to be done
> before reading the config file, and a part afterward. But I don't know
> how to perform this separation.
> 
> -Olaf.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #21] More portable use of m4

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Ah, ok!  I'll close this ticket then.  If anyone has a complaint, refile a new 
change request ;-).

Thanks.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Jan 20 09:09:39 2007]:
> 
> On Fri 19 Jan 2007 at 14:57:36 +0100, Richard Levitte via RT wrote:
> > This was almost two years ago, the problem that not all m4 support
> -s.  Is this still the case, or can I just close this ticket without
> looking further?
> 
> Hm, it seems that somehow my own "solution" for this crept into the
> checked-in source:
> 
> execlp("m4", "m4",
> #if !defined(__NetBSD__)
> "-s",
> #endif
> tmp_file, "-", NULL);
> 
> So unless you want to change this, you can close the ticket.
> -Olaf.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #21] More portable use of m4

[Richard Levitte via RT]

This was almost two years ago, the problem that not all m4 support -s.  Is this 
still the case, or can I just close this ticket without looking further?

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Mon Feb 28 01:23:34 2005]:
> 
> On Sun 27 Feb 2005 at 01:10:02 +0100, Richard Levitte via RT wrote:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Mar 08 12:23:05 2003]:
> > > I noticed in ctwm 3.6 that m4 was not used in a portable manner. Not 
> > all
> > > m4s know about -s. I propose something like the following patch:
> > 
> > Which m4s do not support -s?  Are replacable with GNU m4?
> 
> At least NetBSD's m4 up to the current release (2.0) does not know -s.
> The user could install GNU m4 but then it would still only work if it
> were first in $PATH, which can in turn lead to mysteriously different
> behaviour between different users.
> 
> It's all a pity since the -s option seems really useful. I'm not quite
> sure myself what to do.
> 
> -Olaf.
> 
> 
-- 
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:21:32 +0100 (CET), 
Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

richard> After having looked through programs like xfontsel and xterm,
richard> it seems like the UCS (UTF-8) interpretation somewhere in X
richard> (on the server side, I guess) is a little bit lacking.
richard> xfontsel converts all UCS codes to Char2b internally, and it
richard> looks like xterm does the same, perhaps (the code looks a bit
richard> contorted).

I've done a lot of experiments, using XwcDrawString(), and saw the
exact same problem with the damn apostrophe (U+2019) as with
XmbDrawString().  I've talked to others, and everyone seems to agree
this is a font problem.  We are handling a font *set*, and some fonts
may not have all characters while others do, so it's difficult to say
where that apostrophe comes from.  It's quite possible we need to do
the workaround that xterm does with certain characters (U+2019) among
others, probably because we're not the only ones ending up with this
problem.

richard> So ctwm currently get certain characters displayed correctly,
richard> such as Zvi's apostrophe.

That was supposed to say *in*correctly.

So, for now, I'm simply leaving this alone and will take care of other
stuff in the RT database.

Then, I'm thinking it might be time to release 3.8.

Speaking of releases, I'm wondering what else we might want to do with
ctwm?  There were some atoms that needed supporting, wasn't there?
I'm not going to dig through my email folder searching for those right
now, but might in the future.  Please remind me, that would help a
lot!

Cheers,
Richard

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:29:48 +0100, Kai 
Grossjohann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

kai> Looks like Shift-JIS encoding.  Or is it ISO 2022?  In any case, it
kai> isn't UTF.

That was my mailer (Mew), which seems to insist on doing that.  The
hex output (which you skipped ;-)) should indicate that those
apostrophes were really 0xe2,0x80,0x99.

Oh, and it was ISO-2022-JP

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

After having looked through programs like xfontsel and xterm, it seems
like the UCS (UTF-8) interpretation somewhere in X (on the server
side, I guess) is a little bit lacking.  xfontsel converts all UCS
codes to Char2b internally, and it looks like xterm does the same,
perhaps (the code looks a bit contorted).  So ctwm currently get
certain characters displayed correctly, such as Zvi's apostrophe.

I'm gonna research a little further, but if there's no other way
around, I'll probably have to do something similar to what xfontsel
does.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

OK, just checked and did a bit of debugging.  As far as I can see, the
string that goes into the Info array is correct:

  DEBUG[Identify]: Info[3] = "Name = "Zvi Har$,1ry(BEl$,1ry(Bs 
Jules Verne Collection - Iceweasel""
  DEBUG[Identify]:  HEX OUTPUT
  Name  4e 61 6d 65 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
  .=."Zvi.Har...El  20 3d 20 22 5a 76 69 20 48 61 72 e2 80 99 45 6c
  ...s.Jules.Verne  e2 80 99 73 20 4a 75 6c 65 73 20 56 65 72 6e 65
  .Collection.-.Ic  20 43 6f 6c 6c 65 63 74 69 6f 6e 20 2d 20 49 63
  eweasel"  65 77 65 61 73 65 6c 22 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I'd suggest experimenting with a number of fonts and see what you get
to.  For example, since the apostrophe isn't followed by a lot of
space in the  section of that page, one could conclude that the
corresponding font doesn't have that same problem.  That, or there's
something weird going on.  Maybe XmbTextExtents() isn't the right
function to use to render the strings?

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:09:01 +0200, "Zvi Har'El" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rl> I am using
rl> 
rl> TitleFont "-misc-fixed-bold-r-normal--13-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1".
rl> 
rl> Howrever, if you use f.identify, you see exactly the same problem. I hope 
this
rl> information can help somehow.
rl> 
rl> On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:15:33 +0100, Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker wrote 
about "Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8":
rl> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:36:58 +0200, "Zvi 
Har'El" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
rl> > 
rl> > rl> The problem in item #3, i.e., the extra space after the .AN4 (U+2019
rl> > rl> RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK) in http://jv.gilead.org.il/  still
rl> > rl> persists.
rl> > 
rl> > Yup.  That, however, is not a character encoding problem, at least
rl> > when the string is extracted from the WM_NAME (as you have noticed
rl> > yourself).  Next thing to do is some debugging in the area around
rl> > where the title is actually put in place and see what string it gets.
rl> > If it still has the correct encoding, the only conclusion is that it's
rl> > a problem in Xlib or in the font.
rl> > 
rl> > What font do you use for the title, btw?
rl> > 
rl> > Cheers,
rl> > Richard
rl> > 
rl> > -
rl> > Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
rl> > See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.
rl> > 
rl> > -- 
rl> > Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
rl> > http://richard.levitte.org/
rl> > 
rl> > "When I became a man I put away childish things, including
rl> >  the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
rl> >   -- C.S. Lewis
rl> 
rl> -- 
rl> Dr. Zvi Har'El  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Department of Mathematics
rl> tel:+972-54-4227607 icq:179294841Technion - Israel Institute of 
Technology
rl> fax:+972-4-8293388  http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/Haifa 32000, 
ISRAEL
rl> "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." -- Thumper 
(1942)
rl> Wednesday, 27 Tevet 5767, 17 January 2007, 
10:02AM

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:36:58 +0200, "Zvi Har'El" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rl> The problem in item #3, i.e., the extra space after the ´ (U+2019
rl> RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK) in http://jv.gilead.org.il/  still
rl> persists.

Yup.  That, however, is not a character encoding problem, at least
when the string is extracted from the WM_NAME (as you have noticed
yourself).  Next thing to do is some debugging in the area around
where the title is actually put in place and see what string it gets.
If it still has the correct encoding, the only conclusion is that it's
a problem in Xlib or in the font.

What font do you use for the title, btw?

Cheers,
Richard

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-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] OK, I'm finally convinced (hey, it only took 3 years ;-)), I18N goes!

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Yup.

It's time.

I'm removing all non-locale code and will clean up the whole I18N
bazaar.  In this day and age, I have no problem "forcing" people to
upgrade.

Cheers,
Richard

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Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

I've solved the problem for my case (UTF-8 locale), simply by having
text properties go through XmbTextPropertyToTextList() even when the
type is STRING, instead of just copying the bytes.  It simply converts
the ISO-8859-1 (which is the normal encoding for STRING type text
properties) string to UTF-8.

Please extract the latest revision (f2abcc859cca628f2b368c51e6451063743bce8d)
and try it out.  I'm especially interested in how it works with
non-UTF-8 locales.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Fri, 5 Jan 2007 00:14:42 +0100, Rhialto 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rhialto> On Thu 04 Jan 2007 at 16:55:14 +0100, Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker 
wrote:
rhialto> > For the space-after-apostrophe problem, I'm guessing that
rhialto> > XmbTextPropertyToTextList() has some bug, because that's the function
rhialto> > used to convert the WM_NAME property string to a string according to
rhialto> > locale.
rhialto> 
rhialto> That may depend on the X version one has, since I don't see this
rhialto> problem. I have attached a part of a screenshot.
rhialto> (Yes, you can see I like the default look for the most part, but I did
rhialto> revert the change from "maroon" to "rgb:2/a/9" since the greenish is
rhialto> ugly)
rhialto> 
rhialto> I have the X version that comes by default with NetBSD/amd64 3.0, which
rhialto> is according to XFree86.0.log, 
rhialto> XFree86 Version 4.5.0
rhialto> Release Date: 16 March 2005
rhialto> and Firefox (Deer Park) has been compiled and linked with its 
libraries.
rhialto> 
rhialto> I also have this
rhialto> WM_LOCALE_NAME(STRING) = "nl_NL.ISO8859-1"
rhialto> which seemes to come from my bash_login script
rhialto> export LC_CTYPE=nl_NL.ISO8859-1

Yes, with that, XmbTextPropertyToTextList() will translate whatever it
gets to ISO-8859-1.  Try nl_NL.UTF-8 and see what happens.

BTW, the reason that you get question marks instead of the apostrophes
is probably that the UTF-8-encoded apostrophe doesn't have a proper
translation in ISO-8859-1.  But that's just a guess.

BTW, I use X.org:

X Window System Version 7.1.1
Release Date: 12 May 2006
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 7.1.1
Build Operating System: UNKNOWN 
Current Operating System: Linux lapdog 2.6.18-3-686 #1 SMP Sun Dec 10 19:37:06 U
TC 2006 i686
Build Date: 30 December 2006
Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
to make sure that you have the latest version.


Cheers,
Richard

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Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

So, we can conclude that for STRING names, the result is shit while
for COMPOUND_TEXT, we get something sensible most of the time.

Sounds like the error would be in util.c:GetWMGetPropertyString().
Not sure what should be done though.

For the space-after-apostrophe problem, I'm guessing that
XmbTextPropertyToTextList() has some bug, because that's the function
used to convert the WM_NAME property string to a string according to
locale.

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:02:16 +0200, "Zvi Har'El" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

rl> Hi all,
rl> 
rl> Since I am quite a heavy user of UTF-8 as the web master of a
rl> multilingual web site, http://JV.Gilead.org.il, let me summerize what I
rl> see as the page title when I use firefox to browse to different pages of
rl> my site. Of course, if I use tabbed browsing, the tab title is always
rl> correct.
rl> 1) If the title have non-latin-1 letters, no problem. E.g.,
rl> . In this case xprop gives
rl> 
rl> WM_NAME(COMPOUND_TEXT) = "Les Voyages extraordinaires en H.ANibreu 
$,1rt(B $,1,t,~-!-",u-*(B
rl> $,1,t,~,u-$,|,p,y,}(B - Mozilla Firefox"
rl> _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = 0x4c, 0x65, 0x73, 0x20, 0x56, 0x6f, 0x79,
rl> 0x61, 0x67, 0x65, 0x73, 0x20, 0x65, 0x78, 0x74, 0x72, 0x61, 0x6f, 0x72,
rl> 0x64, 0x69, 0x6e, 0x61, 0x69, 0x72, 0x65, 0x73, 0x20, 0x65, 0x6e, 0x20,
rl> 0x48, 0xc3, 0xa9, 0x62, 0x72, 0x65, 0x75, 0x20, 0xe2, 0x80, 0x94, 0x20,
rl> 0xd7, 0x94, 0xd7, 0x9e, 0xd7, 0xa1, 0xd7, 0xa2, 0xd7, 0x95, 0xd7, 0xaa,
rl> 0x20, 0xd7, 0x94, 0xd7, 0x9e, 0xd7, 0x95, 0xd7, 0xa4, 0xd7, 0x9c, 0xd7,
rl> 0x90, 0xd7, 0x99, 0xd7, 0x9d, 0x20, 0x2d, 0x20, 0x4d, 0x6f, 0x7a, 0x69,
rl> 0x6c, 0x6c, 0x61, 0x20, 0x46, 0x69, 0x72, 0x65, 0x66, 0x6f, 0x78
rl> 
rl> And this is exactly what the title is (also if you use f.identify in
rl> ctwm, this is what you get). Even the non-ascii Latin-1 characters are
rl> translated to two bytes by Xlib.
rl> 
rl> You can also look at the Cyrillic page at
rl> . Good title.
rl> 
rl> 2) If you have only latin-1 letters, however some of them are non ascii,
rl> which are represented in UTF-8 by TWO bytes, but in only ONE byte in
rl> ISO-8859-1 . E.g., http://jv.gilead.org.il/sjv.html. In this case xprop
rl> gives
rl> 
rl> WM_NAME(STRING) = "Soci.ANitNi Jules Verne - Mozilla Firefox"
rl> _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = 0x53, 0x6f, 0x63, 0x69, 0xc3, 0xa9, 0x74,
rl> 0xc3, 0xa9, 0x20, 0x4a, 0x75, 0x6c, 0x65, 0x73, 0x20, 0x56, 0x65, 0x72,
rl> 0x6e, 0x65, 0x20, 0x2d, 0x20, 0x4d, 0x6f, 0x7a, 0x69, 0x6c, 0x6c, 0x61,
rl> 0x20, 0x46, 0x69, 0x72, 0x65, 0x66, 0x6f, 0x78
rl> 
rl> However the actual title (and f.identify) show
rl> 
rl> Socit Jules Verne - Mozilla Firefox
rl> 
rl> That is, the non-ascci characters disappear. Note that the property
rl> WM_NAME is now a STRING rather than COMPOUND_NAME.
rl> You can also look at the Turkish page at
rl> . Some nonascii character
rl> disappear.
rl> 
rl> 3) If you have punctuation like the single right quote (U+2019), etc.,
rl> which are represented in Unicode in the U+2000 range, and represented in
rl> UTF-8 by THREE bytes, you get extra spaces. E.g., 
rl> http://jv.gilead.org.il/. In this case, xprop gives
rl> 
rl> WM_NAME(COMPOUND_TEXT) = "Zvi Har$,1ry(BEl$,1ry(Bs Jules Verne 
Collection - Mozilla
rl> Firefox"
rl> _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = 0x5a, 0x76, 0x69, 0x20, 0x48, 0x61, 0x72,
rl> 0xe2, 0x80, 0x99, 0x45, 0x6c, 0xe2, 0x80, 0x99, 0x73, 0x20, 0x4a, 0x75,
rl> 0x6c, 0x65, 0x73, 0x20, 0x56, 0x65, 0x72, 0x6e, 0x65, 0x20, 0x43, 0x6f,
rl> 0x6c, 0x6c, 0x65, 0x63, 0x74, 0x69, 0x6f, 0x6e, 0x20, 0x2d, 0x20, 0x4d,
rl> 0x6f, 0x7a, 0x69, 0x6c, 0x6c, 0x61, 0x20, 0x46, 0x69, 0x72, 0x65, 0x66,
rl> 0x6f, 0x78
rl> 
rl> The actual title (and f.identify) show
rl> 
rl> Zvi Har$,1ry(B El$,1ry(B s Jules Verne Collection - Mozilla Firefox
rl> 
rl> with spaces after the aposroph (single right quote).
rl> 
rl> As you can see from the examples, the generated X windows have always
rl> the right properties (in my locale, en_US.UTF8),  but CTWM
rl> interpretation is to be improved.
rl> 
rl> Zvi.
rl> 
rl> -- 
rl> Dr. Zvi Har'El  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Department of Mathematics
rl> tel:+972-54-4227607 icq:179294841Technion - Israel Institute of 
Technology
rl> fax:+972-4-8293388  http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/Haifa 32000, 
ISRAEL
rl> "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." -- Thumper 
(1942)
rl> 

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:30:13 +0100, Michael 
Widerkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

mc> A simple menu item like this:
mc> 
mc>   menu "foo"
mc>   {
mc>  "räksmörgås" f.nop
mc>   }

Aha, I inserted a similar one in my main menu, making sure it really
becamse encoded in UTF-8 (so yeah, when I look at the file, I get
weird characters, as you can see in the attached picture), and it came
out PERFECT in the menu (with proper swedish characters).

This means that when you have a UTF-8 locale, the X library simply
assumes that whatever comes in is encoded using UTF-8, and will simply
skip over anything that doesn't decode properly, such as single
ISO-8859-1 characters with the high bit set.

At this point, this is actually understandable.  Neither ctwm nor Xlib
has any possibility to know what encoding is used on the strings they
get, so they will naturally assume that the user has a consistent
environment, not something that's a mix of several charsets.

So, I guess I should start with teaching Emacs to make titles using
UTF-8 ;-).

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:32:59 +0100, Michael 
Widerkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

mc> If I changed right back to LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1 and started CTWM
mc> again with the same title font:
mc> 
mc>   "-b&h-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-normal-sans-12-120-75-75-m-70-iso10646-1"
mc> 
mc> The Swedish characters in the menu item worked. Perhaps I
mc> misunderstood something.

OK, that sounds like we've interpretting input strings as 8-bit
(ISO8859-1 in your case) ALWAYS, and then convert them to multibyte
sequences internally.  Of course, when something is already multibyte,
I can see that there would be some weirdness when trying to convert it
to multibyte...

*GAH!*

OK, time to dig in the code and see what truly happens.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

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Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Re: Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 03 Jan 2007 20:30:13 +0100, Michael 
Widerkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

mc> I tried setting my LANG to "sv_SE.UTF-8", changed my title font to
mc> "-b&h-lucidatypewriter-medium-r-normal-sans-12-120-75-75-m-70-iso10646-1"
mc> and started ctwm.
mc> 
mc> The first thing I notice is that, suddenly, the title bars are /a lot/
mc> higher than before. There's a lot of space around that wasn't there
mc> before.
[blah blah blah]
mc> Is this what you see as well?

Yes, that's exactly it.  So it seems that we either have a problem
with ISO8859-1 characters not being properly rendered in UTF-8 mode,
or we have some general problem with using UTF-8 as multibyte
sequences.  That or I need to dig further into the code ;-).

Cheers,
Richard

Re: [ctwm] Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:51:28 +0100, Michael 
Widerkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

mc> Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
mc> 
mc> > I took a closer look and saw that Xmb* functions are already used.
mc> 
mc> [...]
mc> 
mc> > But then, I wonder, why don't swedish characters appear in the titles?
mc> > I guess it's time I investigate...
mc> 
mc> But it does:
mc> 
mc>   http://hack.org/mc/tmp/swedish.png

Ah, yes, with ISO8859-1, that's true.  I'm converting to UTF-8.

mc> Did you define I18N when you compiled ctwm?

Yes (as a side note, I'm considering throwing away all the non-I18N
stuff, as I18N stuff should be supported everywhere by now)

mc> What locale are you using?

  : ; locale
  LANG=sv_SE.utf8
  ...

mc> On what kind of system are you running ctwm?

Debian Linux.

mc> I have no idea if OpenVMS has any idea of locales.

It does, at least in all incarnations since 7.x (x being 1 at the very
least, IIRC).

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Wed, 03 Jan 2007 17:07:05 +0100 (CET), 
Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

richard> It's time to start supporting for modern character sets/maps
richard> in such things as titles and other things where ctwm displays
richard> strings.  So I'm thinking on working on it in a separate
richard> branch (to be named later), and my plan is to have the result
richard> become part of ctwm 4.0.

Hmm, maybe I'm being too hasty...  I took a closer look and saw that
Xmb* functions are already used.

Teaches me to open my big mouth too damn early!  ;-)

But then, I wonder, why don't swedish characters appear in the titles?
I guess it's time I investigate...

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] Supporting Unicode and so on UTF-8

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Hey,

It's time to start supporting for modern character sets/maps in such
things as titles and other things where ctwm displays strings.  So I'm
thinking on working on it in a separate branch (to be named later),
and my plan is to have the result become part of ctwm 4.0.

I've a question before starting, to all the i18n people on the list;
what would you recommend, that I go for multibyte (in other words,
functions such as XmbDrawString()) or wide chars (in other words,
functions such as XwcDrawString())?  From a programmatic point of
view, wide chars are probably better since it's easy to spot mistakes
already in the compiler.  But I have zero experience programming with
these modern characters (yup, I'm an old ASCII/ISO-8859-1 junkie who
realises it's time to get free from my addiction ;-)), so the advice
from experienced people would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
See http://www.free.lp.se/sponsoring.html for details.

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Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #124] Captive window/workspace oddities

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Splendid!  Thanks!

Ticket resolved.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Dec 30 14:11:14 2006]:
> 
> Fixed in revision ea724cab2c564a807952012b660ccfd78fbae111.
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

[ctwm] [rt.lp.se #122] dragroot incorrectly initialised in menus.c

[Richard Levitte via RT]

Good, thanks!

Ticket resolved.

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sat Dec 30 14:11:02 2006]:
> 
> I sorted this out in revision ea724cab2c564a807952012b660ccfd78fbae111.
-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://richard.levitte.org/

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis

Re: [ctwm] Weird workspace manager change

[Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker]

Ah, found it, it was a little (and very understandable) typo!

I'm pushing a change that corrects it in a moment or two.

Cheers,
Richard

-
Please consider sponsoring my work on free software.
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-- 
Richard Levitte [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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"When I became a man I put away childish things, including
 the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-- C.S. Lewis