Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Mirimir]

On 09/09/2016 11:02 AM, Cypher Piggie wrote:
>> Bro, you keep sayin' that ;)
>> Got a BTC address or something?
> 
> rickroll mah shit large nigga 121Aspd9j8a6t5G3mCvPS3e5H1p3w6PKj2

Bro, there's nothing there :(

I meant an address with at least 100 EUR in it :)

Better yet, a suitable escrow account.

Are there escrow services that use death or pwnage as confirmation?

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Cypher Piggie]

> if you want usable list, consider some self-moderation, like not
> ( being juan )

juan be addicted to TROLL and other sick things and cannot selfstop till
stopped by others

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Georgi Guninski]

On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 03:33:14PM -, Cypher Piggie wrote:
> no you stopped reading it because cocksuckers trolls like juan and
> zenan the baby filling it up wit jizz
> and technically mr cia smart guy if u stopped reading it u wouldnt have
> seen the msg u replied to so ur still here reading it
>

lol, I think Piggie has great points here. r'lly.
if you want usable list, consider some self-moderation, like not
replying to all posts of what you think are
opponents/trolls/scumbag-cunts. think about everyone replying to
everyone in every thread.
 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Cypher Piggie]

no you stopped reading it because cocksuckers trolls like juan and
zenan the baby filling it up wit jizz
and technically mr cia smart guy if u stopped reading it u wouldnt have
seen the msg u replied to so ur still here reading it

> I have stopped reading this list for one reason: the number of messages.

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[oshwm]

But didnt you just add to that number :D

On 9 September 2016 13:03:09 GMT+01:00, d...@geer.org wrote:
>I have stopped reading this list for one reason: the number of
>messages.
>
>Arrivederci

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[dan]

I have stopped reading this list for one reason: the number of messages.

Arrivederci

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[John Newman]

> On Sep 9, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Stephen D. Williams  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/2/16 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 08:36:43PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
 will work to sync up the archives so that the split brain we've been
>>> Don't taint the provenance... just as your archive contains only yours,
>>> this file should only contain messages from newby's server:
>>> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks.mbox/cypherpunks.mbox.gz
>>> 
>>> You can host your own archives wherever, and people will pick them up
>>> and re-host them wherever.
>>> 
>>> You can blend the html index if you want, because it's just a human
>>> interface, not a critical source archive.
>>> 
>>> People...
>>> Don't use procmail, it sucks. Maildrop is better.
>>> Don't use mbox, it sucks. Maildir is better.
> 
> I still use procmail, a bit, but I don't have a strong opinion there.
> 
> I always use mbox format.  I find it very scalable, although I do roll over 
> to new files every 200MB.  Dovecot indexes so well that I'm pretty sure 
> it is faster.  Plus, it is likely much faster for backups etc.
> 

Depends on how fast your filesystem is. I've definitely seen some slw load 
times in mutt with either format (header cache in mutt helps immensely).  I'm 
using maildir at the moment and about a half dozen different mail clients 
depending on which device is at hand, and performance is acceptable on 
directories with 3-4K messages.

I stopped using procmail a while back - I like imapfilter. The config file is 
just lua code. It does require an active connection to your imap server of 
course  The real hassle for me these days is my spamassassin + amavis + 
clamd has stopped working nearly as well as it used too.  But I've been feeding 
the fuck out of the Bayesian dbs, and tuning a few rules, and it's getting back 
under control...


John
>> It's all good. Thanks for the maildrop hint. I'll use Maildir when I'm
>> up to speed with notmuch, but not before - Maildirs are too slow
>> otherwise for me.
>> 
>> Finally - can the new cpunks admin please add a standard
>> subscribe/unsubscribe footer? I referred a friend and they got a
>> rejection on subscription request, so I'm thinking they might have tried
>> using the old domain. Sent them the new mailman url.
> 
> sdw
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Stephen D. Williams]

On 9/8/16 7:17 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> On 09/08/2016 10:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> > On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> >> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
>
>
> >> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list
> >> into what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one
> >> Unmoderated?
>
> > There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan
> > are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's
> > that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no
> > particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political
> > role/potential is just plainly off-topic.
>
> Sounds right to me.
+1
>
> - From my own posting history it's clear that I don't mind pushing
> content that addresses the methods of practical politics, and some of
> the theory behind same.  The connection of this to crypto etc. is that
> it illustrates contexts in which crypto (and by extension pretty much
> all network security considerations) can be productively used to
> support political means and ends.  Hence relevant to threat models,
> product designs, education and support activities for crypto-centric
> applications.
>
> So far I'm not getting flamed for that.
+1
>
> >> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of
> >> "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the
> >> other totally overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half
> >> or more of the people on the original list who took an interest
> >> in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who
> >> stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
>
> > There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If
> > people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object
> > to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with
> > it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.
>
> Also sounds right to me.  Don't let's pretend we can't do it - some of
> the subscribers on this list are veterans of USENET.

Yes, for years, especially early on before the Web.  I setup and ran uucp links 
for email too.  I even engineered a satellite
uplink/downlink over satellite channels normally used for fax transmission.  
LIG stands for "The Local Internet Gateway" company.

>
> "Cypherpunks of the world unite - You have nothing to lose but your
> barbed wire!"
>
> ;o)
>

sdw

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Stephen D. Williams]

On 9/2/16 12:02 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 08:36:43PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
>>> will work to sync up the archives so that the split brain we've been
>> Don't taint the provenance... just as your archive contains only yours,
>> this file should only contain messages from newby's server:
>> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks.mbox/cypherpunks.mbox.gz
>>
>> You can host your own archives wherever, and people will pick them up
>> and re-host them wherever.
>>
>> You can blend the html index if you want, because it's just a human
>> interface, not a critical source archive.
>>
>> People...
>> Don't use procmail, it sucks. Maildrop is better.
>> Don't use mbox, it sucks. Maildir is better.

I still use procmail, a bit, but I don't have a strong opinion there.

I always use mbox format.  I find it very scalable, although I do roll over to 
new files every 200MB.  Dovecot indexes so well that
I'm pretty sure it is faster.  Plus, it is likely much faster for backups etc.

> It's all good. Thanks for the maildrop hint. I'll use Maildir when I'm
> up to speed with notmuch, but not before - Maildirs are too slow
> otherwise for me.
>
> Finally - can the new cpunks admin please add a standard
> subscribe/unsubscribe footer? I referred a friend and they got a
> rejection on subscription request, so I'm thinking they might have tried
> using the old domain. Sent them the new mailman url.

sdw

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/08/2016 10:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:


>> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list
>> into what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one
>> Unmoderated?
> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan
> are posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's
> that stuff which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no
> particular connection to crypto and its social/economic/political
> role/potential is just plainly off-topic.

Sounds right to me.

- From my own posting history it's clear that I don't mind pushing
content that addresses the methods of practical politics, and some of
the theory behind same.  The connection of this to crypto etc. is that
it illustrates contexts in which crypto (and by extension pretty much
all network security considerations) can be productively used to
support political means and ends.  Hence relevant to threat models,
product designs, education and support activities for crypto-centric
applications.

So far I'm not getting flamed for that.

>> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of
>> "twin" lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the
>> other totally overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half
>> or more of the people on the original list who took an interest
>> in keeping it alive /without/ censorship bailed, and those who
>> stayed behind were gradually overwhelmed.
> 
> There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If
> people object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object
> to being criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with
> it or leave. That's just how unmoderated lists work.

Also sounds right to me.  Don't let's pretend we can't do it - some of
the subscribers on this list are veterans of USENET.

"Cypherpunks of the world unite - You have nothing to lose but your
barbed wire!"

;o)



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Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Razer]

On 09/08/2016 07:03 PM, Mirimir wrote:


> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
> posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
> which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
> connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
> just plainly off-topic.


I TRY to keep my political postings to, at least the Internet or
computing's connection to politics, state, society


It's not ez.

Rr



> On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
>>> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
>>
>>> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
>>> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
>>> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
>>> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
>>
>>> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
>>> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
>>> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
>>> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
>>> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
>>> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
>>> before...
>>
>>> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
>>> must be much much *BROADER*.
>>
>> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
>> what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?
> 
> There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
> posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
> which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
> connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
> just plainly off-topic.
> 
>> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
>> lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
>> overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
>> people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
>> /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
>> gradually overwhelmed.
> 
> There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people
> object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being
> criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave.
> That's just how unmoderated lists work.
> 
>> When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
>> practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
>> Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
>> harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
>> pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
>> provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
>>
>> People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
>> seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
>> delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.
>>
>> Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
>> the "public" conversation.
>>
>> Ⓐ
>>
>>
>>

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Mirimir]

On 09/08/2016 07:42 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!
> 
> Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no
> such thing as a CPunks List Charter.  What it this, a corporation?
> CPunks has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no
> ship's articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no 
> disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp...
> 
> HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic"
> of the cypherpunks list:
> 
> Information warfare in the public interest.
> 
> Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical
> munitions, and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority.
> Information warfare in the public interest provides a very broad
> canvas to work with, encompassing everything from tools and
> strategies for network security to exposure of State and Corporate
> covert surveillance and manipulation with an eye to practical
> mitigation.

Hey, it's always been that :)

> If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking. 
> Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the
> original tehchnophiliac meaning of the word:  Content with an
> emphasis on How Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You.
> But wait, there's more!  All of this happens in a context of
> radical politics, so we can widen our subject matter to include
> hacking tips, tricks, tools and case histories for technologies
> like practical propaganda, activist organization, and resistance
> movements.  A Magic Theater with only one price:  Study that, do
> that, improve on that, and assist others to do likewise.

Sounds good to me :)

> When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques, 
> they can enable Big Things to happen.  When people promote and
> defend and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and
> reiterate and regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END
> PRODUCTS of their VERY OWN political agenda, grounded in Most
> Passionate Beliefs, we get an identity politics shouting match that
> proves nothing but our collective incompetence at waging
> information warfare in the public interest.

I do think that we ought to implement some form of AP. But proof
against gaming by the wealthy. Maybe not limited to predicting death.
Or maybe just demonstrations, to get the implementation working.

> Get good at being Bad.  Know the right way to do wrong.

You mean "wrong", right?

> :o)
> 
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Mirimir]

On 09/08/2016 07:39 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
>> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
> 
>> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
>> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
>> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
>> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
> 
>> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
>> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
>> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
>> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
>> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
>> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
>> before...
> 
>> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
>> must be much much *BROADER*.
> 
> Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
> what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?

There are many lists out there for stuff that Александр and Zenaan are
posting. It's not that cypherpunk is apolitical. Rather, it's that stuff
which simply bashes one side or the other, but has no particular
connection to crypto and its social/economic/political role/potential is
just plainly off-topic.

> If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
> lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
> overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
> people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
> /without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
> gradually overwhelmed.

There's no need to do anything with the cypherpunks list. If people
object to off-topic crap, they can say so. If people object to being
criticized for posting off-topic crap, they can deal with it or leave.
That's just how unmoderated lists work.

> When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
> practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
> Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
> harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
> pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
> provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.
> 
> People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
> seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
> delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.
> 
> Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
> the "public" conversation.
> 
> Ⓐ
> 
> 
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Greetings, Anarchists and Sworn Enemies Of Anarchism!

Without a sovereign Authority to sign off on it, there can be no such
thing as a CPunks List Charter.  What it this, a corporation?  CPunks
has never even been as organized as a pirate vessel - no ship's
articles, no process for selecting or removing captains, no
disciplinary process, no profit sharing or worker's comp...

HOWEVER, I do propose yet another definitive answer for the "topic" of
the cypherpunks list:

Information warfare in the public interest.

Because in the local context, cypher- means mathematical munitions,
and -punk means opposed to abuse of authority.  Information warfare in
the public interest provides a very broad canvas to work with,
encompassing everything from tools and strategies for network security
to exposure of State and Corporate covert surveillance and
manipulation with an eye to practical mitigation.

If you order today you also get a culture and heritage of hacking.
Not the pop culture script kiddie version, but hacking in the original
tehchnophiliac meaning of the word:  Content with an emphasis on How
Stuff Works and how to make stuff Work For You.  But wait, there's
more!  All of this happens in a context of radical politics, so we can
widen our subject matter to include hacking tips, tricks, tools and
case histories for technologies like practical propaganda, activist
organization, and resistance movements.  A Magic Theater with only one
price:  Study that, do that, improve on that, and assist others to do
likewise.

When people acquire, use and share practical tools and techniques,
they can enable Big Things to happen.  When people promote and defend
and repeat and elaborate and fight over and recycle and reiterate and
regurgitate and clog up the tubes with the END PRODUCTS of their VERY
OWN political agenda, grounded in Most Passionate Beliefs, we get an
identity politics shouting match that proves nothing but our
collective incompetence at waging information warfare in the public
interest.

Get good at being Bad.  Know the right way to do wrong.

:o)

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Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 09/05/2016 12:15 PM, Александр wrote:
> forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
> 
> The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the
> only thing we see right now, but... We should realize, that this
> splitting up will KILL the original list. It will kill the whole
> concept and the core idea of the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
> 
> The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in
> the last 10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a
> clear and unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK
> LIST-CONCEPT MUST EVOLVE, -> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH
> BROADER". *And the focus, as John Young wrote, cannot be on
> Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers only as it was
> before...
> 
> Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion
> must be much much *BROADER*.

Well that's odd.  I wonder what it's about?  Splitting the list into
what?  Two with different themes?  One Moderated and one Unmoderated?

If the latter, that's a perilous course.  One sees a lot of "twin"
lists and such that are one sterile and stereotyped, the other totally
overrun with tards.  Because once upon a time, half or more of the
people on the original list who took an interest in keeping it alive
/without/ censorship bailed, and those who stayed behind were
gradually overwhelmed.

When the means to eliminate a public voice by direct force are not
practicable, death by a thousand paper cuts may get the job done.
Splitting an online forum may be a decisive move in that direction, or
harmless and productive, depending the situation.  As someone already
pointed out, there is already a cryptography list, which seems to
provide more or less what any advocates for moderation could ask for.

People have been talking about the CPunks list charter.  I have not
seen it.  What Sovereign signed it, and what powers does the Crown
delegate to us, for what tribute in return?  Just curious.

Will post a message to this same thread that enlarges on "my" input to
the "public" conversation.

Ⓐ


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Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Me]

Agreed.

On September 5, 2016 11:15:49 AM CDT, "Александр"  wrote:
>forwarding part of my private conversation to the whole list:
>
>The new list is not the preferable solution, you know. It's the only
>thing
>we see right now, but... We should realize, that this splitting up will
>KILL the original list. It will kill the whole concept and the core
>idea of
>the Cypher-Punk list/movement.
>
>The Snowden revelations and all the shit going on in the world in the
>last
>10 years has brought us (people with brain & spirit) to a clear and
>unambiguous understanding that *"THE CYPHERPUNK LIST-CONCEPT MUST
>EVOLVE,
>-> THUS MUST BE CHANGED, BECOMING MUCH BROADER". *And the focus, as
>John
>Young wrote, cannot be on Apolitical (relatively) crypto-math-numbers
>only
>as it was before...
>
>Times have irreversibly changed -> thus the issues for discussion must
>be
>much much *BROADER*.
>.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Riad S. Wahby]

Bardi Harborow  wrote:
> The lack of SPF, DKIM and DMARC records, as well as TLS, on the new
> list is still wreaking havoc with my spam filter. Any chance of a fix?
> I'd be happy to provide assistance.

I'm guessing the big change since we moved the list is TLS.

SPF is already in place.

There's a DKIM pubkey with the selector "email" to which Greg's server
(presumably) has the secret. But it is somewhat unusual, as far as
I know, for listservs to add their own DKIM signatures when passing
mail through; certainly mine never did. Usually the idea is that you
check the sender's DKIM, and the listserv should just avoid munging
headers so that the signatures can still be checked by the recipient.

I'd be surprised if DMARC changes much since I never had it set up
either, but of course I could be wrong.

-=rsw

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Александр]

2016-09-05 0:21 GMT+03:00 Zenaan Harkness :

> CCing Juan and Alex now - what do you guys think?


I already told you a year ago, brother, that i am FOR this idea.
In my opinion, it *must* be done, because the tension from the
crypto-freaks and golden caged morrons is all the time "there", as asoon as
we start a serious conversation.
I/you/... we want to publish AND comment without being attacked on a
regular basis about the "offtopic" arguments.

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Razer]

On 09/04/2016 08:28 PM, Bardi Harborow wrote:
> The lack of SPF, DKIM and DMARC records, as well as TLS, on the new
> list is still wreaking havoc with my spam filter. Any chance of a fix?
> I'd be happy to provide assistance.
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Bardi Harborow
> Software Engineer
> Mobile: +61481816153
> Web: bardiharborow.com


I was having some problem with occasional listmail passed thru
riseup.net marked as spam on the first day. It appears to have subsided now

Rr

> 
> I acknowledge the Wurundjeri people, who are the custodians of the
> land upon which I live and work. I pay respect to their elders past
> and present.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Bardi Harborow
>  wrote:
>> The mail server doesn't appear to use TLS when forwarding mail to
>> subscribers. Additionally you may wish to look at configuring SPF,
>> DKIM and DMARC records.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Greg Newby  wrote:
>>> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the *new* server and 
>>> settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to 
>>> the regular address, cypherpu...@cpunks.org
>>>
>>> Viva la Resistance!
>>>   - Greg
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:35:04AM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
 Dear cpunks subscribers,

 As discussed on the list last week, Riad S. Wahby is exiting gracefully 
 from hosting the Cypherpunks list at https://cpunks.org

 We have coordinated a transfer of the list to a server I manage, and the 
 configuration appears to be fairly functional.  We have put this at 
 cpu...@lists.cpunks.org (versus cpu...@cpunks.org).

 I will send a test message to the NEW list momentarily, so subscribers 
 will knoow they are getting both.

 Please write back to this list, or directly to me, if you notice any 
 problems or anomalies.  The mailman list settings, subscribership, etc. 
 should be the same, except that subscribers since around August 25 are not 
 yet on the new list.

 You can check your list settings and view the archives at the new 
 location: https://lists.cpunks.org/

 Once everything is confirmed to be functional, we will change from the old 
 list to the new list, and update DNS and server records so the old email 
 address and list URL work on the new location.  We've set DNS TTL to 
 expire quickly, once the changeover happens.

 Best,
   Greg

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Bardi Harborow]

The lack of SPF, DKIM and DMARC records, as well as TLS, on the new
list is still wreaking havoc with my spam filter. Any chance of a fix?
I'd be happy to provide assistance.
Yours sincerely,

Bardi Harborow
Software Engineer
Mobile: +61481816153
Web: bardiharborow.com

I acknowledge the Wurundjeri people, who are the custodians of the
land upon which I live and work. I pay respect to their elders past
and present.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Bardi Harborow
 wrote:
> The mail server doesn't appear to use TLS when forwarding mail to
> subscribers. Additionally you may wish to look at configuring SPF,
> DKIM and DMARC records.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Greg Newby  wrote:
>> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the *new* server and 
>> settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to the 
>> regular address, cypherpu...@cpunks.org
>>
>> Viva la Resistance!
>>   - Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:35:04AM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
>>> Dear cpunks subscribers,
>>>
>>> As discussed on the list last week, Riad S. Wahby is exiting gracefully 
>>> from hosting the Cypherpunks list at https://cpunks.org
>>>
>>> We have coordinated a transfer of the list to a server I manage, and the 
>>> configuration appears to be fairly functional.  We have put this at 
>>> cpu...@lists.cpunks.org (versus cpu...@cpunks.org).
>>>
>>> I will send a test message to the NEW list momentarily, so subscribers will 
>>> knoow they are getting both.
>>>
>>> Please write back to this list, or directly to me, if you notice any 
>>> problems or anomalies.  The mailman list settings, subscribership, etc. 
>>> should be the same, except that subscribers since around August 25 are not 
>>> yet on the new list.
>>>
>>> You can check your list settings and view the archives at the new location: 
>>> https://lists.cpunks.org/
>>>
>>> Once everything is confirmed to be functional, we will change from the old 
>>> list to the new list, and update DNS and server records so the old email 
>>> address and list URL work on the new location.  We've set DNS TTL to expire 
>>> quickly, once the changeover happens.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>   Greg
>>>
>>>

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Georgi Guninski]

On Fri, Sep 02, 2016 at 05:33:33PM +0200, Tom wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 02, 2016 at 08:08:39AM -0700, Razer wrote:
> > I just took a look at the Wikipedia entry for 'greylisting'. It sounds
> > awful if you're victimized by it. My personal mail from openmailbox to a
> > friend was rejected by yahoo b/c of shit like that and I didn't get a
> > notifcation for three fucking days.
> 
> Obviously you've never operated an email server. 99% of all emails
> arriving on any bigger public mail server is spam. Of course you do
> everything to minimize spam.
> 
> Since most spam comes from bot nets which do not implement queueing as
> required by the RFCs, they are successfully blocked from delivering
> their spam with greylisting.
> 
> Of course this method blocks mails coming from mailservers whose
> operators are stupid morons and do not properly configure queueing.
>

I don't remember operating public SMTPD.

The issue with spam is just temporary kludge.

Queue support via "try again later" is very easy to implement in a bot
-- just precompiled qmail or some lightweight SMTPD would do AFAICT. It
is just a matter of time till spammers do it.

Also, nearly all ISPs have non-negligible amount of users with malware
and some of it may send spam via the ISP's SMTPD. It is mystery to me why
aren't all ISPs blacklisted.

Heard that some Spam Black List operators are fucked up morons, don't
know how true is this.

As an aside, I know admin who blocked access of all Chinese IPs to SMTP
to fight spam (maybe he blocked them totally, not sure).

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Razer]

On 09/02/2016 08:33 AM, Tom wrote:

> Obviously you've never operated an email server.

HEY YOU WIN THE FUCKING PRIZE!

I've been victimized by an op though. LOTS of people have.

Email relay operators are right in there with the "Official Observers"
on amateur radio when it comes to CENSORSHIP. Ofc THEY don't see it that
way.

Anything else bright you might care to say?

Rr


> On Fri, Sep 02, 2016 at 08:08:39AM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> I just took a look at the Wikipedia entry for 'greylisting'. It sounds
>> awful if you're victimized by it. My personal mail from openmailbox to a
>> friend was rejected by yahoo b/c of shit like that and I didn't get a
>> notifcation for three fucking days.
> 
> Obviously you've never operated an email server. 99% of all emails
> arriving on any bigger public mail server is spam. Of course you do
> everything to minimize spam.
> 
> Since most spam comes from bot nets which do not implement queueing as
> required by the RFCs, they are successfully blocked from delivering
> their spam with greylisting.
> 
> Of course this method blocks mails coming from mailservers whose
> operators are stupid morons and do not properly configure queueing.
> 
> So, if you're blocked because someone uses greylisting, don't blame
> them, but your mail server admin. Or stop using it and look for some
> service which respects the standards. Or do it yourself.
> 
> However - a cypherpunks member whining about email problems? Really?
> 
> 
> 
> - Tom
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Dan White]

On 09/02/16 08:08 -0700, Razer wrote:

On 09/02/2016 04:41 AM, Greg Newby wrote:

One difference from the old domain is that greylisting is turned on.  I haven't 
heard of that creating problems, but it is a difference.
  - Greg


I just took a look at the Wikipedia entry for 'greylisting'. It sounds
awful if you're victimized by it. My personal mail from openmailbox to a
friend was rejected by yahoo b/c of shit like that and I didn't get a
notifcation for three fucking days.

Have you ever noted how many good domains are black-holed b/c some
asshole fascist relay operator in the midwest says so. How you never get
a response to a request to remove you from thise lists., How a 'spammer'
could intentionally create a situation that blackholes or graylists a
domain?


How Postfix handles grey listing, and how commercial providers throttle
emails is quite different. Postfix typically handles this responsibly by
returning a 4XX error to allow the sender to retry later. Commercial
providers will often silently accept email leaving the sender unaware.

Also, having a server's IP appear within on a blacklist is another problem
altogether, and is not affected by Postfix's grey listing configuration
(except for the case where it may prevent a server from showing up on a
blacklist).

Postfix can be configured to greylist based on certain criteria that could
be useful during an attack. Such an attack might be a sender guessing email
addresses, which is not an issue for 'cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org' which
is publicly known, but may provide protection for other domains/addresses
on the server.

--
Dan White

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 08:36:43PM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> > will work to sync up the archives so that the split brain we've been
> 
> Don't taint the provenance... just as your archive contains only yours,
> this file should only contain messages from newby's server:
> https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks.mbox/cypherpunks.mbox.gz
> 
> You can host your own archives wherever, and people will pick them up
> and re-host them wherever.
> 
> You can blend the html index if you want, because it's just a human
> interface, not a critical source archive.
> 
> People...
> Don't use procmail, it sucks. Maildrop is better.
> Don't use mbox, it sucks. Maildir is better.

It's all good. Thanks for the maildrop hint. I'll use Maildir when I'm
up to speed with notmuch, but not before - Maildirs are too slow
otherwise for me.

Finally - can the new cpunks admin please add a standard
subscribe/unsubscribe footer? I referred a friend and they got a
rejection on subscription request, so I'm thinking they might have tried
using the old domain. Sent them the new mailman url.

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Riad S. Wahby]

Greg Newby  wrote:
> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the
> *new* server and settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks at
> lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to the regular address, cypherpunks
> at cpunks.org

Folks,

If all has gone well, this message will reach you via the new list,
which Greg is now hosting. Thanks for stepping up, Greg.

Specifically: all mail to @cpunks.org or @lists.cpunks.org should
now go to Greg's list instance. In the next few days, Greg and I
will work to sync up the archives so that the split brain we've been
running for the last few days is retroactively repaired.

Also, as I promised grarpamp, I will soon publish and sign a copy
of my local cypherpunks mbox going back to mid-2013. The previous
archive, which contains every message to cypherpunks I've received
since sometime in 1999, is now available from:
https://web.jfet.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2
https://web.jfet.org/cpunk/cypherpunks.tar.bz2.asc
You can find the corresponding PGP key at https://keybase.io/kwantam
(or on most public keyservers).

-=rsw

List moved to new home (Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent)

[Greg Newby]

Dear colleagues,

The cypherpunks email list is now moved to a new server.  You will notice 
messages are from @lists.cpunks.org

Mail to cypherpu...@cpunks.org gets forwarded to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, 
so there is nothing you need to do: both addresses work, and are anticipated to 
keep working.

DKIM and SPF and TLS all seem to be running correctly.  I have not yet 
configured DMARC.  Please let me know of any recommendations or anomalies or 
missing configurations.

Riad and I will synchronize the archives in a few days.  Basically, archives 
from August 25-31 are not yet available at https://lists.cpunks.org, and 
archives from the afternoon of August 31 are split between that site and the 
legacy site, https://cpunks.org.  New messages will be archived only at 
lists.cpunks.org

There might be a few small configuration differences in the lists.  If anything 
seems wrong or disturbing, please mention it.

There are definitely differences in the underlying servers, including the mail 
agent (Postfix, for the new list).  And different servers, of course... so, 
email headers will look different.

Thanks for the advice below.  Best regards to all,
  Greg

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:48:31PM -0700, Stephen D. Williams wrote:
> I just finally refreshed this for my server.  These instructions and test 
> reflector were extremely helpful.
> 
> https://www.linode.com/docs/email/postfix/configure-spf-and-dkim-in-postfix-on-debian-8
> 
> sdw
> 
> On 8/29/16 9:11 PM, Bardi Harborow wrote:
> > The mail server doesn't appear to use TLS when forwarding mail to
> > subscribers. Additionally you may wish to look at configuring SPF,
> > DKIM and DMARC records.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Greg Newby  wrote:
> >> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the *new* server and 
> >> settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to 
> >> the regular address, cypherpu...@cpunks.org
> >>
> >> Viva la Resistance!
> >>   - Greg
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:35:04AM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
> >>> Dear cpunks subscribers,
> >>>
> >>> As discussed on the list last week, Riad S. Wahby is exiting gracefully 
> >>> from hosting the Cypherpunks list at https://cpunks.org
> >>>
> >>> We have coordinated a transfer of the list to a server I manage, and the 
> >>> configuration appears to be fairly functional.  We have put this at 
> >>> cpu...@lists.cpunks.org (versus cpu...@cpunks.org).
> >>>
> >>> I will send a test message to the NEW list momentarily, so subscribers 
> >>> will knoow they are getting both.
> >>>
> >>> Please write back to this list, or directly to me, if you notice any 
> >>> problems or anomalies.  The mailman list settings, subscribership, etc. 
> >>> should be the same, except that subscribers since around August 25 are 
> >>> not yet on the new list.
> >>>
> >>> You can check your list settings and view the archives at the new 
> >>> location: https://lists.cpunks.org/
> >>>
> >>> Once everything is confirmed to be functional, we will change from the 
> >>> old list to the new list, and update DNS and server records so the old 
> >>> email address and list URL work on the new location.  We've set DNS TTL 
> >>> to expire quickly, once the changeover happens.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>   Greg
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> 

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent

[Stephen D. Williams]

I just finally refreshed this for my server.  These instructions and test 
reflector were extremely helpful.

https://www.linode.com/docs/email/postfix/configure-spf-and-dkim-in-postfix-on-debian-8

sdw

On 8/29/16 9:11 PM, Bardi Harborow wrote:
> The mail server doesn't appear to use TLS when forwarding mail to
> subscribers. Additionally you may wish to look at configuring SPF,
> DKIM and DMARC records.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Greg Newby  wrote:
>> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the *new* server and 
>> settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to the 
>> regular address, cypherpu...@cpunks.org
>>
>> Viva la Resistance!
>>   - Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:35:04AM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
>>> Dear cpunks subscribers,
>>>
>>> As discussed on the list last week, Riad S. Wahby is exiting gracefully 
>>> from hosting the Cypherpunks list at https://cpunks.org
>>>
>>> We have coordinated a transfer of the list to a server I manage, and the 
>>> configuration appears to be fairly functional.  We have put this at 
>>> cpu...@lists.cpunks.org (versus cpu...@cpunks.org).
>>>
>>> I will send a test message to the NEW list momentarily, so subscribers will 
>>> knoow they are getting both.
>>>
>>> Please write back to this list, or directly to me, if you notice any 
>>> problems or anomalies.  The mailman list settings, subscribership, etc. 
>>> should be the same, except that subscribers since around August 25 are not 
>>> yet on the new list.
>>>
>>> You can check your list settings and view the archives at the new location: 
>>> https://lists.cpunks.org/
>>>
>>> Once everything is confirmed to be functional, we will change from the old 
>>> list to the new list, and update DNS and server records so the old email 
>>> address and list URL work on the new location.  We've set DNS TTL to expire 
>>> quickly, once the changeover happens.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>   Greg
>>>
>>>

Re: New list confirmation (Re: cpunks list relocation imminent (was: Re: moving on))

[Bardi Harborow]

The mail server doesn't appear to use TLS when forwarding mail to
subscribers. Additionally you may wish to look at configuring SPF,
DKIM and DMARC records.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Greg Newby  wrote:
> As I just wrote, this message should be going out via the *new* server and 
> settings.  It's addressed to cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org, as opposed to the 
> regular address, cypherpu...@cpunks.org
>
> Viva la Resistance!
>   - Greg
>
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 09:35:04AM -0700, Greg Newby wrote:
>> Dear cpunks subscribers,
>>
>> As discussed on the list last week, Riad S. Wahby is exiting gracefully from 
>> hosting the Cypherpunks list at https://cpunks.org
>>
>> We have coordinated a transfer of the list to a server I manage, and the 
>> configuration appears to be fairly functional.  We have put this at 
>> cpu...@lists.cpunks.org (versus cpu...@cpunks.org).
>>
>> I will send a test message to the NEW list momentarily, so subscribers will 
>> knoow they are getting both.
>>
>> Please write back to this list, or directly to me, if you notice any 
>> problems or anomalies.  The mailman list settings, subscribership, etc. 
>> should be the same, except that subscribers since around August 25 are not 
>> yet on the new list.
>>
>> You can check your list settings and view the archives at the new location: 
>> https://lists.cpunks.org/
>>
>> Once everything is confirmed to be functional, we will change from the old 
>> list to the new list, and update DNS and server records so the old email 
>> address and list URL work on the new location.  We've set DNS TTL to expire 
>> quickly, once the changeover happens.
>>
>> Best,
>>   Greg
>>
>>