Re: [darktable-user] The configuration and operation files of darktable V4.2

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 6 avril 2022 23:00:19 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
> On 06/04/2022 20:48, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> > * tony Hamilton  [04-06-22 14:30]:
> >> Is this most useful of documents, by Jean-Pierre Verrue, dated
> >> 06/03/2019,
> >> the latest version for dt 3.8 ?
> > 
> > what document would that be?
> 
> The document with the name as given in the subject line of my original
> post. Easily found in Pixls,Us under the topic
> 
> 
>   "How to tell where darktable’s data folder is
>  
>  28>"
A link which could have been given in the original post, avoiding the need for 
many to waste time before they can even start answering the question...

It's simple, really: providing the information needed up front makes it easier 
to get an answer (and usually quicker). No protocol, just basic self-interest.
The more as those that are best placed to answer, are usually also the most 
solicited.

Remco




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Re: [darktable-user] The configuration and operation files of darktable V4.2

[Jim Robinson]

The best source for the latest version of dt is the manual!

https://docs.darktable.org/usermanual/3.8/en/preferences-settings/

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 at 18:31, tony Hamilton  wrote:

> Is this most useful of documents, by Jean-Pierre Verrue, dated
> 06/03/2019, the latest version for dt 3.8 ?
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] The configuration and operation files of darktable V4.2

[Patrick Shanahan]

* tony Hamilton  [04-06-22 14:30]:
> Is this most useful of documents, by Jean-Pierre Verrue, dated 06/03/2019,
> the latest version for dt 3.8 ?

what document would that be?

when one requests help, one is *not* expected to make undue effort upon
those who's help is requested.

why would you expect something written for dt 4.2 to be the "latest" for
dt 3.8?  


-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet oftc
What sort of day was it?  A day like all days, filled with 
those events that alter and illuminate our times... 

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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Patrick Shanahan]

* tony Hamilton  [04-06-22 11:28]:
 [...]
> I am considering re-installing dt (3.8) and re-importing all the images,
> with their .xmp files.  Will this work, to build a correctly functioning
> dt installation, complete with all my tags and metadata (which represent
> many weeks of work)?  

If you import a file with an accompanying xmp sidecar, the database will
include the information in the xmp sidecar file.

> Will it matter that, initially, the option to 'write sidecar file for
> each image' in storage preferences, might be set to 'on import' (which
> would overwrite all my edits.  

when importing a file which is not in the db, your edits *only* exist
within the xmp file.

> tags and metadata), as long as I set i to 'never' before I start the
> import and until import is complete?  

"write sidecar file" setting should not make any difference except for the
import date (if one exists) within the xmp file.  it should change to the
latest import date.

> What other variables/settings must I manage suitably to get back to
> where I was a few days ago?  What else will catch me out as a result of
> 'import'> 'add to library' ?

if starting with a *new* library, what would you think should happen?

your new library/db is empty until you have imported files.  if those file
have xmp sidecar files, after import the edits will be within your new library. 
your new library should not have anything inside to overwrite until after
you have imported files.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet oftc
What sort of day was it?  A day like all days, filled with 
those events that alter and illuminate our times... 

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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Guillermo Rozas]

>
> The are three caveats (at least):
>

And of course, an obvious fourth one: if there is no xmp file, the tags <->
image relation is lost if removed from the database.


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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Martin Straeten]

since darktable doesn't change the original file tags and metadata are just
in the database or - if enabled - in the sidecar xmp files written in the
same folder as the original files.

Am Mi., 6. Apr. 2022 um 10:04 Uhr schrieb tony Hamilton <
shaky.st...@ntlworld.com>:

> If an image is removed from the dt catalog in the windows version, is
> the tag and metadata, which had been applied to the image, automatically
> lost? Or is it still available in some way such that if the image is
> added back into the catalog, that tag and metadata will be re-associated
> with the image?
>
> As a secondary question, where is this data held, in the Windows version?
>
> 
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>


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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Guillermo Rozas]

Hi,

Short story: if you have the data in the xmp, remove the images, and
re-import them, all the tags should be there exactly as before. If you
import them in a fresh database, all the tags should also be there, except
that tag properties like "private" and "category" will not be carried over.

Long story: there are two places where darktable saves tags: in an
image-independent table in the data.db database, and in the xmp files. You
can check the first by looking at the database with a sqlite explorer, and
the second by simply opening the xmp file with a text editor.

When you import a fresh image and assign it a tag, the tag is connected to
the image by referencing the tag in the database table (actually the tag ID
and not the tag text itself, but this is all transparent to you, you should
not have to worry about the internal details). If it's configured to also
save xmp files, it saves the explicit text of the tags in the dc:Subject
and lr:HierarchicalSubject fields in it. As usual, by default what's in the
database has higher priority than the xmp in case of discrepancy.

When you remove the image from darktable, the tags are still associated
with it inside the xmp file, but this relation is removed from the database
(because the image is not there anymore). The tags itself is still in the
database, that's why you can still see it in the tags module, eventually
with "0 images" associated with it.

If you re-import an image with an xmp file attached, darktable looks into
its tags table for the tags text and hierarchy described in the xmp file.
If they exist, they're associated with the image again. If not, they're
created and associated. So you should end up with the same tag state as
before removing it from the database.

The are three caveats (at least):

- if you modify the xmp file tags without removing the image from
darktable, you need to enable the "check for modified xmp on startup"
option, otherwise darktable will overwrite the xmp with the database info
(and as its name implies, this check is only done on darktable's start, not
if it's already running)

- dc:subject is a flat list, and lr:hierarchicalsubject is, well,
hierarchical. darktable will arrange the tags according to the latter's
hierarchy, but assign to the image only the ones that are in the former.
This is irrelevant if darktable saves the tags itself (it does the "right
thing") but can get messy if another program writes the tags on the file,
especially if there are tags in one field and not in the other.

- all the tag properties like "private" and "category" are only saved in
the database, so they're lost if you delete the tag or the full database
(they're not carried over with the xmp).

Best regards,
Guillermo


On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 05:04 tony Hamilton  wrote:

> If an image is removed from the dt catalog in the windows version, is
> the tag and metadata, which had been applied to the image, automatically
> lost? Or is it still available in some way such that if the image is
> added back into the catalog, that tag and metadata will be re-associated
> with the image?
>
> As a secondary question, where is this data held, in the Windows version?
>
> 
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> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Life cycle of darktable tag data (in Windows)

[Remco Viëtor]

On mercredi 6 avril 2022 09:48:05 CEST tony Hamilton wrote:
> If an image is removed from the dt catalog in the windows version, is
> the tag and metadata, which had been applied to the image, automatically
> lost? Or is it still available in some way such that if the image is
> added back into the catalog, that tag and metadata will be re-associated
> with the image?
> 
> As a secondary question, where is this data held, in the Windows version?
I'll let the devs answer the part about where data is stored and whether re-
associating old data with a new image is possible...

My question is: would it be *acceptable* to have a newly imported image get 
the data from an older, removed image? What criterium would you use to 
associate the new image with the old data? "name" isn't particularly reliable, 
"id" isn't possible (the 'new' images hasn't one yet...), so that would leave 
a checksum or fingerprint (relatively slow operation).

Also, I'd expect the tags and added metadata to be stored in the database, and 
remain there after just removing an image (just marked as deleted).
But: that database can be cleaned/purged/compressed every now and then. In 
that case, the data of removed images *is* deleted from the database. And that 
would make re-using existing data unpredictable...

Remco



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