Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Peter McD]

Am 08.05.2018 um 21:41 schrieb Anton Aylward:

On 08/05/18 01:44 PM, I. Ivanov wrote:

...
- top posting is not right or wrong. It is just different.


The real evil, and I do mean EVIL, of top posting is that practitioners don't
trim the message, they just quote the whole thread to date.  OK, a lot of bottom
posters do that too, but and they are equally wrong.

[...]

Exactly. I delete parts that I don't comment on. Especially on follow 
ups, when the problem is already documented.
It keeps the list easy to follow and doesn't waste the time of those who 
don't want to react to my words of wisdom;-)


So to say, I find top posting ok if I just answer to a mail to one 
person/business, where the question of documenting mails is important, 
otherwise I think bottom posting (and cutting parts I don't comment on) 
is more efficient.


cu
Peter

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Jason Polak]

Just like to add that I myself appreciate the data limit on attachments.
I use a mobile broadband plan as my primary home internet. It is not
monthly, but rather prepaid.

The main advantage is that if I just check email and a couple news sites
(while using noscript/adblock/ghostery to limit external javascripts),
7GB can actually last ten months, and it comes to around $5AUD a month...

Jason

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Anton Aylward]

On 08/05/18 01:44 PM, I. Ivanov wrote:
> 
> On 2018-05-08 07:38 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
>> On 07/05/18 07:14 PM, I. Ivanov wrote:
>>> Is it an European practice not to top post?
>> No.
>> It is how it always "used to be" before such things as GMail
> I don't "completely" agree about GMail (because I have observed the practice
> before that). But thank you any way...
>>> I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with in 
>>> North
>>> America) top posts when they reply to email.
>> I've been dealing with Email since the start of the 1980s and this pernicious
>> effect is very, very recent.

You might also consider inserting blank lines to separate responses.
It makes thing a LOT more readable.

I've left the 'compacted' response that I received from you above rather than
trimming it out so as to illustrate this point.

>> Most of us consider it, at the very least, impolite.
> I understand - I did feel like this when I was in Europe (and started email
> about the same time as you). Again - it is not the practice in North America 
> - I
> had to adapt myself. 

I don't think it is an American thing.
Certainly USENET of the 1980s here in North America was doing bottom posting and
interlinear responses.  That was what, nearly 40 years ago.
There are still many etiquette sites that advise

1. trimming so that only the matter being replied to is present.

At the very least be pleased to trim out all the inserted footers!

> Meanwhile my friends in Europe "bottom post" all the time.

One might speculate that they are more polite :-)
That given the North Americans I deal with on various other lists (hello
Patrick!) are also polite.

> If I understand correctly - you are under impression that I am trying to 
> mislead
> you intentionally. 

No.


Let me repeat:
>> So we have TWO issues here.
>> The first is politeness.
>> The second is clarity of communications.


> I want to thank everybody that participated. I understand there are people 
> very
> passionate about one method vs. another. What I wanted to gather (and also
> convey) is that:
> - how we write / respond to the list affects the readers (and the responses we
> have back). We may want to keep this in mind.

Yes.
Visual layout is also a factor.
inserting blank lines costs one keystroke, one character, but adds immensely to
the readability.

Proper grammar -- the "ov" vs "of" war is long over -- and punctuation is also
important.

> We can surely move forward to a much more interesting topic - Darktable!

And hopefully we can expect some better efforts on clarity and focus from here
on in.

> - top posting is not right or wrong. It is just different. 

The real evil, and I do mean EVIL, of top posting is that practitioners don't
trim the message, they just quote the whole thread to date.  OK, a lot of bottom
posters do that too, but and they are equally wrong.

Both, in that case, are failing to indicate exactly what they are replying to
because they fail to trim the message of everything superfluous.

That is on reason is encourage in-line responses.
It is a matter for FOCUS and CLARITY.

 A: Yes.
 >   Q: Are you sure?
 >>  A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?




-- 
One supplier of software for bank dealing rooms takes the view that anyone who
pirates its code is welcome, as using it without skilled technical support
would be a fast way for a bank to lose millions.  -- Ross Anderson

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[I. Ivanov]

On 2018-05-08 07:38 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 07/05/18 07:14 PM, I. Ivanov wrote:

Is it an European practice not to top post?

No.
It is how it always "used to be" before such things as GMail
I don't "completely" agree about GMail (because I have observed the 
practice before that). But thank you any way...

I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with in North
America) top posts when they reply to email.

I've been dealing with Email since the start of the 1980s and this pernicious
effect is very, very recent.

Most of us consider it, at the very least, impolite.
I understand - I did feel like this when I was in Europe (and started 
email about the same time as you). Again - it is not the practice in 
North America - I had to adapt myself. Meanwhile my friends in Europe 
"bottom post" all the time.

It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".

That is a canard.
Most of the professional semi-professional lists I'm on do make a point of
replies that FOCUS on the material.  In a longer post you often have to address
multiple items and "in line" is the only way to keep it coherent.  After all.,
most people don't write using numbered tags on their paragraphs to which you can
specifically respond.
If I understand correctly - you are under impression that I am trying to 
mislead you intentionally. This is not the case. I can use either (and 
have found uses for both - in line and to posting). Again - what I 
observe is that the majority of correspondence that I deal with is top 
posting. This is on both professional and personal level.


To be precise - I am talking about "email correspondence".

So we have TWO issues here.
The first is politeness.
The second is clarity of communications.

  A: Yes.
  >   Q: Are you sure?
  >>  A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
  >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

I want to thank everybody that participated. I understand there are 
people very passionate about one method vs. another. What I wanted to 
gather (and also convey) is that:
- how we write / respond to the list affects the readers (and the 
responses we have back). We may want to keep this in mind.
- top posting is not right or wrong. It is just different. Some are okay 
with it others not. It is not disrespectful. It is just what the writer 
believes is best.


I think there is enough information on the thread :-)
We can surely move forward to a much more interesting topic - Darktable!

Regards,

B

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Anton Aylward]

On 07/05/18 07:14 PM, I. Ivanov wrote:
> Is it an European practice not to top post?

No.
It is how it always "used to be" before such things as GMail

> I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with in 
> North
> America) top posts when they reply to email.

I've been dealing with Email since the start of the 1980s and this pernicious
effect is very, very recent.

Most of us consider it, at the very least, impolite.

> It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".

That is a canard.
Most of the professional semi-professional lists I'm on do make a point of
replies that FOCUS on the material.  In a longer post you often have to address
multiple items and "in line" is the only way to keep it coherent.  After all.,
most people don't write using numbered tags on their paragraphs to which you can
specifically respond.


So we have TWO issues here.
The first is politeness.
The second is clarity of communications.

 A: Yes.
 >   Q: Are you sure?
 >>  A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?

-- 
"Obscurity is the refuge of incompetence."
   -- Robert Heinlein,

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Anton Aylward]

On 07/05/18 10:30 PM, Mark Heieis wrote:
> I agree. I find it frustrating to scroll  to the bottom to find a response.

No its not.
This response illustrates why its not.

 A: Yes.
 >   Q: Are you sure?
 >>  A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
-- 
Do you want the truth, or a well-designed machination brought
into existence solely for the stroking of your ego?
   -- Empty  on alt.goth

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Anton Aylward]

On 07/05/18 08:26 PM, Michael wrote:
> I never knew that "top posting" was a problem. Maybe I'm just used to it, but 
> I
> prefer to have the reply at the top so I don't have to scroll thru all the
> messages in the chain to find the latest post.

Then at least trim what's not relevant, such as footers!

 A: Yes.
 >   Q: Are you sure?
 >>  A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?



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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Tue, 2018-05-08 at 08:03 -0400, Robert Krawitz wrote:
> Just a couple of comments --
> 
> 1) Not everyone has fast internet.  A month ago I had 1.5/.368 DSL.
> 
> 2) Mobile devices often have data caps.

Probably it was not really clear that my comment was ironical. If 90-s
are over and old practices should be abandoned then why do we have this
already a bit boring discussion?

I'm quite surprized how passionate darktable's small community
especially discussing topics like traditional April fools' day joke and
this. Some people even send private preaching letters "How dare you to
send this in public mailing list!"... I'm sure one day we will discuss
emoticons in mailing list :)

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Robert Krawitz]

On Tue, 08 May 2018 08:48:51 +0300, Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
>> "OTOH, using mobile
>> devices or mail clients like outlook that is not so easy, and the
>> 90ies are over..."
>
> Bad logic. If 90s are over then it is really strange to cry about those
> pictures in the age of ubiquitous 100/1000 Mbit соnnections. Especially
> in the mailing list dedicated to huge images processing.

Just a couple of comments --

1) Not everyone has fast internet.  A month ago I had 1.5/.368 DSL.

2) Mobile devices often have data caps.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 8 mai 2018 07:48:51 CEST Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> > "OTOH, using mobile
> > devices or mail clients like outlook that is not so easy, and the
> > 90ies are over..."
> 
> Bad logic. If 90s are over then it is really strange to cry about those
> pictures in the age of ubiquitous 100/1000 Mbit соnnections. Especially
> in the mailing list dedicated to huge images processing.

Not really, if those pictures are just there because you forgot to snip the 
post you reply to. And especially so if your reader is trying to access his 
email over a less than optimal WiFi or 3G/4G connection. For the latter 
there's also the limitation on volume. 

What I find bad about that remark about "the 90's are over" is that (for me) 
the whole issue discussed here is at least in part a matter of politeness 
towards (and respect for) your readers. 

Remco

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[johannes hanika]

heya,


On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 6:23 AM, Timur Irikovich Davletshin
 wrote:

> Reminds me of UN security council. One is whining, two are furious,
> China's neutral, Russia's banning every US. initiative and no one wants
> to make official rules :)

since i found that an amusing analogy and somehow feel i should be the
one to make official rules, here goes:

i don't care about these things! i'm too old to find source code
formatting or email etiquette a matter of life and death! i like to
think that people have enough content to transport so they are writing
an email in the first place. time permitting i'll read through a lot
of random formatting because i'm interested in the content.

more seriously this is the spirit that i think made darktable what it
is. we've been very loose at allowing source code formatting and
coding practices into the repository, too. and while often times that
brings technical debt and some parts do look terrible, it also brought
a lot of very useful features very quickly. for code this is probably
something we should be more strict about, but for communication i feel
less inclined to force strict rules. fwiw i agree on what people said
here wrt politeness and cleaning up the email before sending.

> Bad logic. If 90s are over then it is really strange to cry about those
> pictures in the age of ubiquitous 100/1000 Mbit соnnections. Especially
> in the mailing list dedicated to huge images processing.

right. i think i'm lost in the 90s (i like screen/irssi). that, and
bad internet connections seem to have made a comeback with those
computerised telephones that everybody seems to be carrying around
with them nowadays.

so for now i just let the computer decide the file size (1MB) before
sending it out, to avoid discussions in the future. by all means
bother me about it if it turns out to be a silly restriction.

cheers,
 jo

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Colin Adams]

On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 07:11 Remco Viëtor  wrote:

>  Hundreds of
> lines of quoted text to be read bottom up do not tempt me to make an
> effort to
> figure out what's going on.
>
> In such cases, I just delete the message without bothering to read it at
all.


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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 8 mai 2018 07:35:50 CEST Michael Below wrote:
(...)
> Top posting vs. inline is a matter of internet tradition (Usenet) vs
> newfangled AOL users/Outlook etc., see
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
> 
> I learned some time back in Usenet newsgroups that it's rude not to trim
> down your replies to the relevant parts, and to reply inline so people
> could follow the debate more easily. OTOH, using mobile devices or mail
> clients like outlook that is not so easy, and the 90ies are over...

You can of course post any way you want. But I suppose you want to get a 
decent reply? Then it is in your interest to make your posts easy to read 
*and* easy to understand. 

For me that means short with no irrelevant quotes, and preferably with your 
part after the quotes (as I read from the top to the bottom). Hundreds of 
lines of quoted text to be read bottom up do not tempt me to make an effort to 
figure out what's going on.

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Remco Viëtor]

On mardi 8 mai 2018 02:26:01 CEST Michael wrote:
> I never knew that "top posting" was a problem. Maybe I'm just used to it,
> but I prefer to have the reply at the top so I don't have to scroll thru
> all the messages in the chain to find the latest post.
> On May 8, 2018 12:13:36 AM UTC, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> >* August Schwerdfeger  [05-07-18 19:53]:
(...)
Yes, having to scroll down to the bottom is getting annoying...
*when the whole previous conversation is quoted*. In this case, I snipped 
about 450 lines or so...

If the quoted part is trimmed down to relevant material only, it becomes much 
easier, and you at least know what the reply refers to if you can't remember 
the whole conversation.

Cutting the quoted part and replying at the bottom was, afaik, the polite 
method when I started using email (and usenet) "several" years ago, for both 
Americans and Europeans. But then there wasn't any HTML email either, and most 
uses were professional.

Top posting and *not* snipping the quoted part seem to go together, and, 
rudely said, are a sign of lazyness (for me, at least). With no further 
information it indicates that the poster doesn't want to spend the time to 
craft an easy to understand, logical message.

But if gmail just puts the cursor at the top, it's tempting to start writing 
there without looking down to see what's trailing behind (those 450+ lines...)

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

> "OTOH, using mobile
> devices or mail clients like outlook that is not so easy, and the
> 90ies are over..."

Bad logic. If 90s are over then it is really strange to cry about those
pictures in the age of ubiquitous 100/1000 Mbit соnnections. Especially
in the mailing list dedicated to huge images processing.

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Michael Below]

Hi,

Am 8. Mai 2018 06:23:03 MESZ schrieb Timur Irikovich Davletshin 
:
>On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 16:14 -0700, I. Ivanov wrote:
>> Is it an European practice not to top post?
...
>> It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
>> 
>> So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather
>> regional 
>> preference?
...
>
>Top posting is not something considered rude and I'm OK with it. 
...
>Make it official and inform subscribers.

Top posting vs. inline is a matter of internet tradition (Usenet) vs newfangled 
AOL users/Outlook etc., see 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

I learned some time back in Usenet newsgroups that it's rude not to trim down 
your replies to the relevant parts, and to reply inline so people could follow 
the debate more easily. OTOH, using mobile devices or mail clients like outlook 
that is not so easy, and the 90ies are over...

Cheers
Michael

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 16:14 -0700, I. Ivanov wrote:
> Is it an European practice not to top post?
> 
> I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked
> with 
> in North America) top posts when they reply to email.
> 
> It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
> 
> So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather
> regional 
> preference?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> B

Reminds me of UN security council. One is whining, two are furious,
China's neutral, Russia's banning every US. initiative and no one wants
to make official rules :)

Top posting is not something considered rude and I'm OK with it. But if
 rules demand not top post... well I will respect them. Everybody's got
personal preferences and I find HTML formatting in email unnecessary
and unwrapped lines rude. But if they are not intentional and not
result of rules violation... well, I will just deal with it. There is
another 'but' — numerous mobile clients, they have their own formatting
rules.

Make it official and inform subscribers.

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Michael  [05-07-18 20:28]:
> I never knew that "top posting" was a problem. Maybe I'm just used to it, but 
> I prefer to have the reply at the top so I don't have to scroll thru all the 
> messages in the chain to find the latest post.
> 
> On May 8, 2018 12:13:36 AM UTC, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
> >* August Schwerdfeger  [05-07-18 19:53]:
> >> When using Gmail apps (at least in the U.S.), it is very complicated
> >*not*
> >> to "top post."
> >> 
> >> --
> >> August Schwerdfeger
> >> aug...@schwerdfeger.name
> >> 
> >> On Mon, May 7, 2018, 6:15 PM I. Ivanov  wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Is it an European practice not to top post?
> >> >
> >> > I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked
> >with
> >> > in North America) top posts when they reply to email.
> >> >
> >> > It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
> >> >
> >> > So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather
> >regional
> >> > preference?
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > B
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 2018-05-07 12:28 AM, johannes hanika wrote:
> >> > > hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > (sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different
> >levels
> >> > > of indentation below)
> >> > >
> >> > > i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per
> >email.
> >> > > sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a
> >good
> >> > > starting point for most of us.
> >> > >
> >> > > fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large
> >images or
> >> > > even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
> >> > > feedback on image development questions.
> >> > >
> >> > > cheers,
> >> > >   jo
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell 
> >wrote:
> >> > >> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list
> >users
> >> > aware
> >> > >> of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> >> > >> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this,
> >other
> >> > than
> >> > >> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large
> >files to a
> >> > >> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> >> > >>  wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something
> >totally
> >> > >>> illusive.
> >> > >>> Just deal with it.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell
> >
> >> > >>> kirjoitti:
> >> > >>>
> >> >  On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> >> >   wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> >> > >
> >> >  That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
> >> >  Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
> >> >  Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link
> >is a
> >> >  preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> >> > 
> >> > >> --
> >> > >> Regards,
> >> > >> Terry Duell
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >
> >> > >> darktable user mailing list
> >> > >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >
> >> > > darktable user mailing list
> >> > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >> > darktable user mailing list
> >> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >> darktable user mailing list
> >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >
> >is it also difficult to trim and only quote that which is relevant?
> >
> >-- 
> >(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA 
> >@ptilopteri
> >http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Member   
> >facebook/ptilopteri
> >Registered Linux User #207535@
> >http://linuxcounter.net
> >Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigopaka @ IRCnet 
> >freenode
> >
> >darktable user mailing list
> >to unsubscribe send a mail to
> >darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

is deleting unrelevant material all that hard?  it is considerate.
-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered 

Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Mark Heieis]

  
  
I agree. I find it
  frustrating to scroll  to the bottom to find a response.


On 2018-05-07 17:26, Michael wrote:

I never
  knew that "top posting" was a problem. Maybe I'm just used to it,
  but I prefer to have the reply at the top so I don't have to
  scroll thru all the messages in the chain to find the latest post.
  
  On May 8, 2018 12:13:36 AM UTC, Patrick
Shanahan  wrote:

  * August Schwerdfeger  [05-07-18 19:53]:
 When using Gmail apps (at least in the U.S.), it is very complicated *not*
 to "top post."
 

  


  


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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Michael]

I never knew that "top posting" was a problem. Maybe I'm just used to it, but I 
prefer to have the reply at the top so I don't have to scroll thru all the 
messages in the chain to find the latest post.

On May 8, 2018 12:13:36 AM UTC, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:
>* August Schwerdfeger  [05-07-18 19:53]:
>> When using Gmail apps (at least in the U.S.), it is very complicated
>*not*
>> to "top post."
>> 
>> --
>> August Schwerdfeger
>> aug...@schwerdfeger.name
>> 
>> On Mon, May 7, 2018, 6:15 PM I. Ivanov  wrote:
>> 
>> > Is it an European practice not to top post?
>> >
>> > I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked
>with
>> > in North America) top posts when they reply to email.
>> >
>> > It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
>> >
>> > So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather
>regional
>> > preference?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > B
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2018-05-07 12:28 AM, johannes hanika wrote:
>> > > hi all,
>> > >
>> > > (sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different
>levels
>> > > of indentation below)
>> > >
>> > > i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per
>email.
>> > > sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a
>good
>> > > starting point for most of us.
>> > >
>> > > fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large
>images or
>> > > even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
>> > > feedback on image development questions.
>> > >
>> > > cheers,
>> > >   jo
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell 
>wrote:
>> > >> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list
>users
>> > aware
>> > >> of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
>> > >> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this,
>other
>> > than
>> > >> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large
>files to a
>> > >> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
>> > >>  wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something
>totally
>> > >>> illusive.
>> > >>> Just deal with it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell
>
>> > >>> kirjoitti:
>> > >>>
>> >  On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
>> >   wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
>> > >
>> >  That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
>> >  Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
>> >  Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link
>is a
>> >  preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
>> > 
>> > >> --
>> > >> Regards,
>> > >> Terry Duell
>> > >>
>> >
>
>> > >> darktable user mailing list
>> > >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>
>> > > darktable user mailing list
>> > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>> > darktable user mailing list
>> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
>> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>> >
>> >
>> 
>>
>
>> darktable user mailing list
>> to unsubscribe send a mail to
>darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>is it also difficult to trim and only quote that which is relevant?
>
>-- 
>(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA 
>@ptilopteri
>http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Member   
>facebook/ptilopteri
>Registered Linux User #207535@
>http://linuxcounter.net
>Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo  paka @ IRCnet freenode
>
>darktable user mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to
>darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

-- 
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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Patrick Shanahan]

* August Schwerdfeger  [05-07-18 19:53]:
> When using Gmail apps (at least in the U.S.), it is very complicated *not*
> to "top post."
> 
> --
> August Schwerdfeger
> aug...@schwerdfeger.name
> 
> On Mon, May 7, 2018, 6:15 PM I. Ivanov  wrote:
> 
> > Is it an European practice not to top post?
> >
> > I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with
> > in North America) top posts when they reply to email.
> >
> > It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
> >
> > So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather regional
> > preference?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > On 2018-05-07 12:28 AM, johannes hanika wrote:
> > > hi all,
> > >
> > > (sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different levels
> > > of indentation below)
> > >
> > > i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per email.
> > > sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a good
> > > starting point for most of us.
> > >
> > > fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large images or
> > > even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
> > > feedback on image development questions.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >   jo
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell  wrote:
> > >> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list users
> > aware
> > >> of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> > >> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other
> > than
> > >> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to a
> > >> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally
> > >>> illusive.
> > >>> Just deal with it.
> > >>>
> > >>> ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell 
> > >>> kirjoitti:
> > >>>
> >  On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> >   wrote:
> > 
> > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> > >
> >  That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
> >  Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
> >  Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is a
> >  preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> > 
> > >> --
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Terry Duell
> > >>
> > 
> > >> darktable user mailing list
> > >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > >>
> > >
> > 
> > > darktable user mailing list
> > > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> > darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >
> >
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

is it also difficult to trim and only quote that which is relevant?

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[August Schwerdfeger]

When using Gmail apps (at least in the U.S.), it is very complicated *not*
to "top post."

--
August Schwerdfeger
aug...@schwerdfeger.name

On Mon, May 7, 2018, 6:15 PM I. Ivanov  wrote:

> Is it an European practice not to top post?
>
> I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with
> in North America) top posts when they reply to email.
>
> It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".
>
> So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather regional
> preference?
>
> Regards,
>
> B
>
>
> On 2018-05-07 12:28 AM, johannes hanika wrote:
> > hi all,
> >
> > (sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different levels
> > of indentation below)
> >
> > i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per email.
> > sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a good
> > starting point for most of us.
> >
> > fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large images or
> > even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
> > feedback on image development questions.
> >
> > cheers,
> >   jo
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell  wrote:
> >> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list users
> aware
> >> of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> >> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other
> than
> >> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to a
> >> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally
> >>> illusive.
> >>> Just deal with it.
> >>>
> >>> ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell 
> >>> kirjoitti:
> >>>
>  On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
>   wrote:
> 
> > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> >
>  That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
>  Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
>  Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is a
>  preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> 
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >> Terry Duell
> >>
> 
> >> darktable user mailing list
> >> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >>
> >
> 
> > darktable user mailing list
> > to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
> >
>
>
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to
> darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[I. Ivanov]

Is it an European practice not to top post?

I deal with quite a bit of email and everyone (that I have worked with 
in North America) top posts when they reply to email.


It is actually extremely rare when people reply "in line".

So - is it indeed perceived as rude to top post or it is rather regional 
preference?


Regards,

B


On 2018-05-07 12:28 AM, johannes hanika wrote:

hi all,

(sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different levels
of indentation below)

i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per email.
sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a good
starting point for most of us.

fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large images or
even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
feedback on image development questions.

cheers,
  jo


On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell  wrote:

One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list users aware
of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other than
to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to a
mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.

On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
 wrote:


Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally
illusive.
Just deal with it.

ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell 
kirjoitti:


On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
 wrote:


Well remove 'em if they are "too big".


That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is a
preferred option if a small file cannot be used.


--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[johannes hanika]

hi all,

(sorry i'm top posting because i'm lost with all the different levels
of indentation below)

i reconfigured the lists to only accept a maximum of 1MB per email.
sorry for any inconvenience, but i think forcing this may be a good
starting point for most of us.

fwiw, https://pixls.us may be the better place to post large images or
even raw files to start a play raw thread and get more detailed
feedback on image development questions.

cheers,
 jo


On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:12 AM, Terry Duell  wrote:
> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list users aware
> of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other than
> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to a
> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
>
> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
>  wrote:
>
>> Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally
>> illusive.
>> Just deal with it.
>>
>> ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell 
>> kirjoitti:
>>
>>> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
>>> >
>>>
>>> That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
>>> Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
>>> Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is a
>>> preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
>>>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org
>

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Michael Rasmussen]

On Mon, 07 May 2018 07:44:30 +0300
Timur Irikovich Davletshin  wrote:

> I'm not sure which one is more inappropriate — reposting private
> conversation to public without concent or discussing public mailing
> list etiquette rules.
> 
And two more rules:
1) Do not top post.
2) Remove paragraphs which is no longer part of the conversation.

-- 
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Michael Rasmussen

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michael  rasmussen  cc
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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

I'm not sure which one is more inappropriate — reposting private
conversation to public without concent or discussing public mailing
list etiquette rules.

On Sun, 2018-05-06 at 23:35 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * Timur Irikovich Davletshin  [05-06-18
> 23:30]:
> > I'm really surprised that it's not Patrick who started this thread
> > ;-)
> > 
> > IMO:
> > 
> > 1. In-line attachments of images (tables, patches, colored text,
> > etc.)
> > is a bad thing because they never look right and they take time and
> > precious megabytes.
> > 2. Links to third party sites used again and again in different
> > types
> > of mail attacks, shortened links especially dangerous.
> > 3. HTML letters are bad for the same reason — formatting never
> > looks
> > right and it's easy to fake HTML links. Composing letters in
> > Microsoft
> > Mailsomething is eleventh sin.
> > 4. Meanwhile I'm OK with attachment of any size which is accepted
> > by
> > server — attachments are loaded on demand.
> > 5. Mailing list etiquette rules is a right way to solve this
> > problem.
> > 
> > Timur.
> > 
> > On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 10:12 +1000, Terry Duell wrote:
> > > One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list
> > > users  
> > > aware of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> > > I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this,
> > > other
> > > than  
> > > to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large
> > > files to
> > > a  
> > > mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja  
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something
> > > > totally  
> > > > illusive.
> > > > Just deal with it.
> > > > 
> > > > ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell  > > > >  
> > > > kirjoitti:
> > > > 
> > > > > On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
> > > > > Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
> > > > > Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a
> > > > > link is
> > > > > a
> > > > > preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> I do agree with Terry and sorry you fail to see.  but this should not
> be
> discussed on-list.

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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Patrick Shanahan]

* Timur Irikovich Davletshin  [05-06-18 23:30]:
> I'm really surprised that it's not Patrick who started this thread ;-)
> 
> IMO:
> 
> 1. In-line attachments of images (tables, patches, colored text, etc.)
> is a bad thing because they never look right and they take time and
> precious megabytes.
> 2. Links to third party sites used again and again in different types
> of mail attacks, shortened links especially dangerous.
> 3. HTML letters are bad for the same reason — formatting never looks
> right and it's easy to fake HTML links. Composing letters in Microsoft
> Mailsomething is eleventh sin.
> 4. Meanwhile I'm OK with attachment of any size which is accepted by
> server — attachments are loaded on demand.
> 5. Mailing list etiquette rules is a right way to solve this problem.
> 
> Timur.
> 
> On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 10:12 +1000, Terry Duell wrote:
> > One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list
> > users  
> > aware of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> > I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other
> > than  
> > to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to
> > a  
> > mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> > 
> > On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja  
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally  
> > > illusive.
> > > Just deal with it.
> > > 
> > > ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell   
> > > kirjoitti:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
> > > > Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
> > > > Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is
> > > > a
> > > > preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> > > > 
> > 
> > 

I do agree with Terry and sorry you fail to see.  but this should not be
discussed on-list.
-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
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Re: [darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Timur Irikovich Davletshin]

I'm really surprised that it's not Patrick who started this thread ;-)

IMO:

1. In-line attachments of images (tables, patches, colored text, etc.)
is a bad thing because they never look right and they take time and
precious megabytes.
2. Links to third party sites used again and again in different types
of mail attacks, shortened links especially dangerous.
3. HTML letters are bad for the same reason — formatting never looks
right and it's easy to fake HTML links. Composing letters in Microsoft
Mailsomething is eleventh sin.
4. Meanwhile I'm OK with attachment of any size which is accepted by
server — attachments are loaded on demand.
5. Mailing list etiquette rules is a right way to solve this problem.

Timur.

On Mon, 2018-05-07 at 10:12 +1000, Terry Duell wrote:
> One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list
> users  
> aware of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
> I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other
> than  
> to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to
> a  
> mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.
> 
> On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja  
>  wrote:
> 
> > Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally  
> > illusive.
> > Just deal with it.
> > 
> > ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell   
> > kirjoitti:
> > 
> > > On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
> > > Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
> > > Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is
> > > a
> > > preferred option if a small file cannot be used.
> > > 
> 
> 

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[darktable-user] Posting large files to mailing lists

[Terry Duell]

One way to "deal with it" is to make all the other mailing list users  
aware of how inconsiderate and rude you are.
I don't have any desire to have an ongoing argument about this, other than  
to try to make you aware, and understand, that posting large files to a  
mailing list is bad mailing list etiquette.


On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:55:53 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja  
 wrote:


Well thats how it goes.  Useless to bitch about something totally  
illusive.

Just deal with it.

ma 7. toukokuuta 2018 klo 1.50 Terry Duell   
kirjoitti:



On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:42:16 +1000, Henri Turpeenoja
 wrote:

> Well remove 'em if they are "too big".
>

That doesn't prevent them arriving in my inbox.
Attaching large files to a mailing list is bad etiquette.
Not everyone needs or wants to receive it, which is why a link is a
preferred option if a small file cannot be used.



--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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