subject:"\[darktable\-user\] denoising problems"

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-11 Thread Peter Cripps

Bill, thanks for letting us try your noise profiles. I did some quick 
tests, and they seem to work very well, particularly for very noisy images.




On 03/10/2018 07:35 PM, William Ferguson wrote:
I usually shoot 1000-1500 images per game (football, soccer, 
basketball), and 600-800 for baseball and softball.  I shoot raw 
because of the stadium light problem.  I'll shoot a burst and get 3 
too green, 2 just right, 3 too red, 1 just right...


I shoot with a Canon EOS 7D, a camera not renowned for its high iso 
performance.


I've set up 4 styles, low ISO, medium ISO, high ISO, and very high 
ISO.  They are based around three instances of profile denoised, one 
for color noise, one for luminance, and a third to smooth things out.  
The higher the ISO, I start adding things like demosiac, hot pixels, 
lowpass.  I vary the mostly the opacity on the profile denoise, 
increasing it as the ISO increases.


I usually shoot in manual, so all my exposures are pretty much the 
same.  I denoise one image, then copy the history stack and paste it 
to the rest of the images.  If I was changing exposure settings, then 
I denoise one image per group, and copy the history stack to the rest 
of the group.


I've attached my styles, if anyone would like to try them.





darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread William Ferguson

I usually shoot 1000-1500 images per game (football, soccer, basketball),
and 600-800 for baseball and softball.  I shoot raw because of the stadium
light problem.  I'll shoot a burst and get 3 too green, 2 just right, 3 too
red, 1 just right...

I shoot with a Canon EOS 7D, a camera not renowned for its high iso
performance.

I've set up 4 styles, low ISO, medium ISO, high ISO, and very high ISO.
They are based around three instances of profile denoised, one for color
noise, one for luminance, and a third to smooth things out.  The higher the
ISO, I start adding things like demosiac, hot pixels, lowpass.  I vary the
mostly the opacity on the profile denoise, increasing it as the ISO
increases.

I usually shoot in manual, so all my exposures are pretty much the same.  I
denoise one image, then copy the history stack and paste it to the rest of
the images.  If I was changing exposure settings, then I denoise one image
per group, and copy the history stack to the rest of the group.

I've attached my styles, if anyone would like to try them.

Bill

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 2:15 PM, Patrick Shanahan  wrote:

> * Robert Krawitz  [03-10-18 14:07]:
>  [...]
> > I do shoot JPEG only.  I need to.  I shoot something like 2000 frames
> > per game, but I want to get the noise down a tad.
>
> conversely I shoot only raw, but on a weekend I may have 3-4 soccer games
> at 4-800 shots per game and usually two are late enough that stadium light
> and long sun have great affect.  I get acceptable shots for up to 24000
> iso for web display, I would not want to print them.  I shoot raw because
> the long sun and flickering stadium lights color the images so bad.
>
> nikon d850, d500, d7200
> nikon 70-200, 80-400, 600
> dt latest dev ver
>
> I did use a d3 and my own nr settings by iso range, but my present cameras
> all have been noise profiled.
>
> images I cannot rather quickly make acceptable I just trash.  a very few I
> will spend more effort.
>
> --
> (paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
> http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
> Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
> Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
> lists.darktable.org
>
>

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

High ISO Noise Reduction.dtstyle
Description: Binary data

Low ISO Noise Reduction.dtstyle
Description: Binary data

Medium ISO Noise Reduction.dtstyle
Description: Binary data

Very High ISO Noise Reduction.dtstyle
Description: Binary data

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread Patrick Shanahan

* Robert Krawitz  [03-10-18 14:07]:
 [...]
> I do shoot JPEG only.  I need to.  I shoot something like 2000 frames
> per game, but I want to get the noise down a tad.

conversely I shoot only raw, but on a weekend I may have 3-4 soccer games
at 4-800 shots per game and usually two are late enough that stadium light
and long sun have great affect.  I get acceptable shots for up to 24000
iso for web display, I would not want to print them.  I shoot raw because
the long sun and flickering stadium lights color the images so bad.

nikon d850, d500, d7200
nikon 70-200, 80-400, 600
dt latest dev ver

I did use a d3 and my own nr settings by iso range, but my present cameras
all have been noise profiled.

images I cannot rather quickly make acceptable I just trash.  a very few I
will spend more effort.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread Robert Krawitz

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 17:48:55 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
>
> On 03/10/2018 05:34 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 17:04:45 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
>>> When I apply the 'denoise (profiled)' onto a fairly raw image the
>>> results, on my data, look quite acceptable. I have been trying to see
>>> which modules that I am using are creating more noise than others.
>>>
>>> In another test I have used the para. mask to eliminate some processing
>>> from sky areas ... it is a bit tedious but it appears to help. I still
>>> feel that the blue is the trouble-maker.
>> 
>> Tedious is something I cannot abide when I'm processing a few hundred
>> game photos (much less 3 weeks ago, when I had 600 frames).  I need
>> the most efficient workflow I can get.  It's already wasteful to me
>> that I can't simply hit space to move to the next photo and be able to
>> crop right away; I need to click on the crop settings to be able to
>> crop.
>> 
>> For my use case, I don't need absolute elimination of noise, but I
>> like to cut down the noise some for the very high ISO settings I use.
>> If I were able to shoot at ISO 1600 I wouldn't even both bother with
>> NR at all.  But I don't want artifacts or complete removal of detail.
>> If I didn't have an alternative I'd accept the noise.
> Yes, high ISO does give extra problems. My Fuji has a 'sweet-spot' for
> noise at 800 and I have almost locked my camera on that setting  and
> I am certainly not shooting as many frames as are you.
>
> If it were me, facing your situation, I would seriously shoot JPG and
> let the camera manufacturer do all the hard work of processing. That is
> the Fuji advantage that the style options for JPG output are really very
> fine and also very varied.

I do shoot JPEG only.  I need to.  I shoot something like 2000 frames
per game, but I want to get the noise down a tad.
-- 
Robert Krawitz 

***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net

"Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
--Eric Crampton

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread David Vincent-Jones

I am finding that the 'denoise (profiled)' when switched from NLM to
wavelets is doing a fairly good job in particular on my sky areas 
it is a bit aggressive but can be toned down as needed.

On 03/10/2018 05:34 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 17:04:45 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
>> When I apply the 'denoise (profiled)' onto a fairly raw image the
>> results, on my data, look quite acceptable. I have been trying to see
>> which modules that I am using are creating more noise than others.
>>
>> In another test I have used the para. mask to eliminate some processing
>> from sky areas ... it is a bit tedious but it appears to help. I still
>> feel that the blue is the trouble-maker.
> 
> Tedious is something I cannot abide when I'm processing a few hundred
> game photos (much less 3 weeks ago, when I had 600 frames).  I need
> the most efficient workflow I can get.  It's already wasteful to me
> that I can't simply hit space to move to the next photo and be able to
> crop right away; I need to click on the crop settings to be able to
> crop.
> 
> For my use case, I don't need absolute elimination of noise, but I
> like to cut down the noise some for the very high ISO settings I use.
> If I were able to shoot at ISO 1600 I wouldn't even both bother with
> NR at all.  But I don't want artifacts or complete removal of detail.
> If I didn't have an alternative I'd accept the noise.
> 
>> On 03/10/2018 04:56 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:44:24 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
 Your examples interest me since they are shown on a blue subject. My
 experience with a fully profiled sensor is that the 'basic' Denoise
 (profiled) works quite well by itself EXCEPT for blue sky areas.

 My sky areas tend to form into rosette clumps whenever some reasonable
 degree of processing is applied. It has led me to believe that it is the
 blue color that is causing the greatest problem.
>>>
>>> That's not my experience -- I'm seeing clumps like this in plenty of
>>> other places.
> 
> 

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread David Vincent-Jones


On 03/10/2018 05:34 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 17:04:45 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
>> When I apply the 'denoise (profiled)' onto a fairly raw image the
>> results, on my data, look quite acceptable. I have been trying to see
>> which modules that I am using are creating more noise than others.
>>
>> In another test I have used the para. mask to eliminate some processing
>> from sky areas ... it is a bit tedious but it appears to help. I still
>> feel that the blue is the trouble-maker.
> 
> Tedious is something I cannot abide when I'm processing a few hundred
> game photos (much less 3 weeks ago, when I had 600 frames).  I need
> the most efficient workflow I can get.  It's already wasteful to me
> that I can't simply hit space to move to the next photo and be able to
> crop right away; I need to click on the crop settings to be able to
> crop.
> 
> For my use case, I don't need absolute elimination of noise, but I
> like to cut down the noise some for the very high ISO settings I use.
> If I were able to shoot at ISO 1600 I wouldn't even both bother with
> NR at all.  But I don't want artifacts or complete removal of detail.
> If I didn't have an alternative I'd accept the noise.
Yes, high ISO does give extra problems. My Fuji has a 'sweet-spot' for
noise at 800 and I have almost locked my camera on that setting  and
I am certainly not shooting as many frames as are you.

If it were me, facing your situation, I would seriously shoot JPG and
let the camera manufacturer do all the hard work of processing. That is
the Fuji advantage that the style options for JPG output are really very
fine and also very varied.
> 
>> On 03/10/2018 04:56 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:44:24 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
 Your examples interest me since they are shown on a blue subject. My
 experience with a fully profiled sensor is that the 'basic' Denoise
 (profiled) works quite well by itself EXCEPT for blue sky areas.

 My sky areas tend to form into rosette clumps whenever some reasonable
 degree of processing is applied. It has led me to believe that it is the
 blue color that is causing the greatest problem.
>>>
>>> That's not my experience -- I'm seeing clumps like this in plenty of
>>> other places.
> 
> 

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread Jean-Luc Coulon (f5ibh)

Sometimes there are problems with a particular channel.
I have had this kind of problem also with the blue channel (not the sky= in
some specific conditions where there are few data on the blue channel and
the white balance / colour balance tends to lower it even more.
In this case, you can ends up with not enough data to overides the noise.

I have had to use a TC correction filter to get more data on this channel
and then to be able to process it.

2018-03-10 16:56 GMT+01:00 Robert Krawitz :

> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:44:24 +0100, David Vincent-Jones wrote:
> > Your examples interest me since they are shown on a blue subject. My
> > experience with a fully profiled sensor is that the 'basic' Denoise
> > (profiled) works quite well by itself EXCEPT for blue sky areas.
> >
> > My sky areas tend to form into rosette clumps whenever some reasonable
> > degree of processing is applied. It has led me to believe that it is the
> > blue color that is causing the greatest problem.
>
> That's not my experience -- I'm seeing clumps like this in plenty of
> other places.
> --
> Robert Krawitz 
>
> ***  MIT Engineers   A Proud Tradition   http://mitathletics.com  ***
> Member of the League for Programming Freedom  --  http://ProgFree.org
> Project lead for Gutenprint   --http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net
>
> "Linux doesn't dictate how I work, I dictate how Linux works."
> --Eric Crampton
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
> lists.darktable.org
>
>


darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-10 Thread David Vincent-Jones

Your examples interest me since they are shown on a blue subject. My
experience with a fully profiled sensor is that the 'basic' Denoise
(profiled) works quite well by itself EXCEPT for blue sky areas.

My sky areas tend to form into rosette clumps whenever some reasonable
degree of processing is applied. It has led me to believe that it is the
blue color that is causing the greatest problem.

David

On 03/07/2018 07:59 PM, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:
> DT 2.4.1
> 
> I'm having problems with the denoising:
> Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250
> 
> Darktable:
> * before denoise: https://i.imgur.com/k9Njy70.png
> * denoise profiled: https://i.imgur.com/Unw2i8O.png and it's very
>   blotchy 
> * equalizer denoise: https://i.imgur.com/8E1CzHt.png (w/o the
>   denoise profiled). Less blotchy than profiled but not good either.
> 
> I have also tried Rawtherapee
> * after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
>   excellent
> 
> What can I do to improve the image?
> 
> 

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-07 Thread Bernhard

Robert Krawitz schrieb am 08.03.2018 um 03:52:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 20:36:14 +0100, Matej Martinovic wrote:

Hey,

denoising in darktable is somewhat tricky:

Use the *denoise (profiled)*, set it to "wavelet" and set blend mode to "color". This
eliminates the awful color noise. Use a *second instance* of denoise (profiled), set it to non-local means
and choose blend mode "lightness". With that second instance i'll usually reduce the strength or
opacity to my liking to keep some detail.

You can set some presets and have them apply the correct denoising
automatically.

This info is also available in the manual
https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/correction_group.html, under 3.4.4.3.
Denoise – profiled -> mode.

I've tried this also a number of times, and also find the NR from
Darktable unsatisfactory compared to RawTherapee. I'm using a
7DnmkII, typically at ISO 6400-8000. I've posted a number of examples
here:
https://rlk.smugmug.com/Photography/DarktableRawTherapee/i-pZbDfRH

It's unfortunate; there are other reasons I'd prefer to use Darktable,
but when I need significant noise reduction, the artifacts I get are
simply not satisfactory.

On 2018-03-07 19:59, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

DT 2.4.1

I'm having problems with the denoising:
Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250

Darktable:
* before denoise: https://i.imgur.com/k9Njy70.png
* denoise profiled: https://i.imgur.com/Unw2i8O.png and it's very
blotchy
* equalizer denoise: https://i.imgur.com/8E1CzHt.png (w/o the
denoise profiled). Less blotchy than profiled but not good either.

I have also tried Rawtherapee
* after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
excellent

What can I do to improve the image?
I found some improvement recently on my D500 by playing with
https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/modules.html#demosaic
demosaicing before doing anything else.
I have adjusted the settings in such a way that the structure of the
noise appears as "even" as possible. This makes the artifacts less
conspicuous after denoising.

Worth a try I guess.

regards
Bernhard

https://www.bilddateien.de

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-07 Thread I. Ivanov

I took the profile Denoise_chinese

from https://dtstyle.net/

Some times I simply rely on it while others I only tweak the demosaic
module to VNG4 two times full average or Amaze.

I should say however that I very rarely shoot at more than ISO 6400.

Never compared to RawTherapee... I had a bit of a rough start with it
and then I just switched to DT.

Regards,

On 2018-03-07 06:52 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 20:36:14 +0100, Matej Martinovic wrote:

Hey,

denoising in darktable is somewhat tricky:

You can set some presets and have them apply the correct denoising
automatically.

This info is also available in the manual
https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/correction_group.html, under 3.4.4.3.
Denoise – profiled -> mode.

It's unfortunate; there are other reasons I'd prefer to use Darktable,
but when I need significant noise reduction, the artifacts I get are
simply not satisfactory.

On 2018-03-07 19:59, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

DT 2.4.1

I'm having problems with the denoising:
Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250

I have also tried Rawtherapee
* after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
excellent

What can I do to improve the image?

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-07 Thread darktable

Thanks to all. It does help.


On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 20:36:14 +0100
Matej Martinovic  wrote:

>Hey,
>
>denoising in darktable is somewhat tricky:
>
>Use the *denoise (profiled)*, set it to "wavelet" and set blend mode
>to "color". This eliminates the awful color noise. Use a *second
>instance* of denoise (profiled), set it to non-local means and
>choose blend mode "lightness". With that second instance i'll
>usually reduce the strength or opacity to my liking to keep some
>detail.
>
>You can set some presets and have them apply the correct denoising
>automatically.
>
>This info is also available in the manual
>https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/correction_group.html, under
>3.4.4.3. Denoise – profiled -> mode.
>
>BR
>Matej
>
>
>On 2018-03-07 19:59, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:
>> DT 2.4.1
>>
>> I'm having problems with the denoising:
>> Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250
>>
>> Darktable:
>> * before denoise: https://i.imgur.com/k9Njy70.png
>> * denoise profiled: https://i.imgur.com/Unw2i8O.png and it's very
>>blotchy
>> * equalizer denoise: https://i.imgur.com/8E1CzHt.png (w/o the
>>denoise profiled). Less blotchy than profiled but not good
>> either.
>>
>> I have also tried Rawtherapee
>> * after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
>>excellent
>>
>> What can I do to improve the image?
>>
>>  
>
>
>
>darktable user mailing list
>to unsubscribe send a mail to
>darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org


-- 
sknahT

vyS

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-07 Thread Matej Martinovic


Hey,

denoising in darktable is somewhat tricky:

Use the *denoise (profiled)*, set it to "wavelet" and set blend mode to 
"color". This eliminates the awful color noise. Use a *second instance* 
of denoise (profiled), set it to non-local means and choose blend mode 
"lightness". With that second instance i'll usually reduce the strength 
or opacity to my liking to keep some detail.


You can set some presets and have them apply the correct denoising 
automatically.


This info is also available in the manual 
https://www.darktable.org/usermanual/en/correction_group.html, under 
3.4.4.3. Denoise – profiled -> mode.


BR
Matej


On 2018-03-07 19:59, darkta...@911networks.com wrote:

DT 2.4.1

I'm having problems with the denoising:
Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250

Darktable:
* before denoise: https://i.imgur.com/k9Njy70.png
* denoise profiled: https://i.imgur.com/Unw2i8O.png and it's very
   blotchy
* equalizer denoise: https://i.imgur.com/8E1CzHt.png (w/o the
   denoise profiled). Less blotchy than profiled but not good either.

I have also tried Rawtherapee
* after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
   excellent

What can I do to improve the image?






darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

[darktable-user] denoising problems

2018-03-07 Thread darktable

DT 2.4.1

I'm having problems with the denoising:
Canon 7DMkII and Canon 70-200L IS f/4 ISO1250

Darktable:
* before denoise: https://i.imgur.com/k9Njy70.png
* denoise profiled: https://i.imgur.com/Unw2i8O.png and it's very
  blotchy 
* equalizer denoise: https://i.imgur.com/8E1CzHt.png (w/o the
  denoise profiled). Less blotchy than profiled but not good either.

I have also tried Rawtherapee
* after noise reduction: https://i.imgur.com/Js5ZGfd.png and it's
  excellent

What can I do to improve the image?


-- 
sknahT

vyS

darktable user mailing list
to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

Re: [darktable-user] denoising problems

[darktable-user] denoising problems

13 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information