Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Nisha Thompson]

Thanks all for the feedback!

I'll tweak the letter and get started on an outline for standards and send
it out to people to help!

Vaishnavi,

Web accessibility to everyone is really important and should definitely not
be overlooked so your background is necessary!

Nisha


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:

> Nisha,
>
> Happy to help but I don't know much barring a bit about web accessibility
> from the disability perspective. Can research, collate etc - let me know.
>
> ---
> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Nisha Thompson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> We have done a few things in the past with the NIC specifically this list
>> of data standards
>>
>> http://datameet.org/standards-for-data/
>>
>> Feedback to NDSAP
>> http://datameet.org/wiki/responsetondsap
>>
>> But nothing in terms of a DataMeet standards for open data.  Maybe we can
>> put together a few resources like the ones mentioned above and add it as an
>> attachment to the letter?
>>
>> Who want to help with this?
>>
>> Nisha
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Chandrashekhar Raman <
>> chandrashekhar.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Want to echo the points made by a few folks on the 'tyranny of pdfs'
>>>
>>> I have spent countless hours with free trial versions of pdf to excel
>>> conversion software to wrangle election data from pdfs available online
>>> into a usable excel format (or csv). and in the process infected my
>>> computer with countless malware.Extracting and cleaning data is a learning
>>> exercise in itself, but making it available in a machine readable format
>>> will take this to a whole new level.
>>>
>>> Tim Barnes Lees framework on the 'degree of open-ness' of open data is
>>> perhaps relevant to this discussion.
>>>
>>>   1 Star Data available on the Web, with an open license, but non
>>> machine readable - E.g. Zip files and PDFs  2 Star Data available in
>>> Machine-readable proprietary formats e.g. Excel  3 Star Data available
>>> in machine-readable, non-proprietary formats e.g. XML, RDF, JSON or even 
>>> CSV  4
>>> Star Data Available using an open linked data format (URI so people can
>>> point to your data)  5 Star Data available and linked to other data (
>>> to provide context and relationships)
>>>
>>> I am not a tech expert - but seems that there is a lot of activity
>>> around moving much of data from '1star' to the '5star' level - and that
>>> could be one guiding thought for us as a group.
>>>
>>> cs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>>>
 I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
 What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of
 numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??

 I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse
 to the fact that pdf is an open standard.
 And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not
 image-pdfs.

 Kind Regards
 Mahroof
 
 Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..



 On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
 vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:

> Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure
> easy PDF/UA
> creation
> (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
> Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
> exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone 
> to
> lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
> good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
> http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
>  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
> accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
> not just run of the mill accessibility)  *
>
> Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software
> where FOSS alternatives exist.
> Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
> document format  recently.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/
>
> Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
> But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
> http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
> :
>
> What is clear though is that frankly, the

Re: [datameet] Re: Open Data and Data Standards in Indian Transportation

[Nisha Thompson]

Hey All,

I think this is a really great idea. And I agree with Dilip we can break it
up and assign tasks.

I have started a wiki:
http://datameet.org/wiki/start_transportationdocumentdraft

Where we can put the final outline and assignments.  Let's use this thread
to flush out the outline.

Nisha


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 9:23 PM, srinivas kodali 
wrote:

> Well i haven`t laid out the complete sections of the document yet. But it
> will be majorly on the following topics
>
> 1. Standards and Structured data storage of transport data
>
> 2. Different practices in transport applications/data analysis
>
> 3. Copy rights and licenses of data
>
> 4. Open data and Open Source implementations in transport
>
> It will be majorly a technical document with minor details on open-data
> policies and advantages. Individuals who want to contribute need to be
> fairly aware of the following technologies:
>
> These are just to give you an idea what you will be working on. You don`t
> need to know everything
>
> 1. Database design
> 2. Exposure to OSM, Geojson and Maps/Tranport related specs
> 3. Exposure to handling Big data (The data can be around 10-40 GB easily)
> 4. Standards in Transport data (GTFS, GTFS Realtime,SIRI)
> 5. Expertise in Socket Programming, Protocol Buffers, real-time data
> protocols.
>
> We will be evaluating and implementing couple of applications/protocols
> before we recommend it. It will be fairly a technical document. The
> document will be shared in the group after completion for two reviews.
>  Everybody can contribute in terms of suggestions and criticizing the
> suggestions.
>
> Regards,
> Srinivas
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Dilip Damle  wrote:
>
>> Srinivas,
>>
>> I think it will better if you can list out the tasks that other
>> contributors are expected to do.
>> Based on that and the individual capability and time may be some of us
>> may enlist ourselves for a particular task.
>>
>>
>> rgds
>> Dilip Damle
>> (New Delhi)
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:40:46 PM UTC+5:30, srinivas kodali wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking to publish a technical document on data standards for
>>> transport agencies in India. This document will be published through
>>> datameet and we are also looking at getting these implemented across
>>> transport agencies.
>>>
>>> The attached technical document from BMTC will give you an Idea what you
>>> will be making, but a bit more precise and usage of open data, open source
>>> technologies in transport.
>>>
>>> The timeline we are looking at is 4-6 weeks. Anybody interested in
>>> transportation is welcome to contribute. Please state your intentions for
>>> contribution within this week.
>>>
>>> We need this, so that we can have unified transport data across the
>>> country, regardless of states and governments.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Srinivas
>>>
>>  --
>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "datameet" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>  --
> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "datameet" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Nisha Thompson
DataMeet.org
ni...@datameet.org
skype: nishaqt
mobile: 962-061-2245

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] Shapefiles for "complete" India

[Dilip Damle]

Hi, 

This is just to add one more source for the Complete Boundary including 
Disputed areas and the whole world, 

ESRI ADMIN 2012 now includes the disputed areas inlcuding Aksai Chi and 
Azad Kashmir and Northern areas  separately rather than being shown as part 
of the Other countries

it is available here 
http://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=d86e32ea12a64727b9e94d6f820123a2

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 12:00:12 AM UTC+5:30, Dilip Damle wrote:
>
> Hi, 
> I felt that the name was a kind of a pseudonym.
> Let us see if he responds.
>
> On Monday, August 11, 2014 6:05:28 PM UTC+5:30, Nisha Thompson wrote:
>>
>> I have sent Fidel a mail.  I have a feeling that he is pro open data.
>>
>> nisha
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 3:16 PM, "Sharad Lele [शरच्चंद्र लेले]" <
>> shara...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Very excited about this! But the file is not actually downloadable, it 
>>> seems. One has to write to fidel castro... has anyone gotten a reply?
>>>
>>> Sharad
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10-Aug-14 1:31 PM, Dilip Damle wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 Just came across this link that seems to have a village shapfile of 
 India somewhere

 http://revolutionarygis.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/
 india-village-shapefile/

  
>>> -- 
>>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more 
>>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "datameet" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to datameet+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Nisha Thompson
>> DataMeet.org
>> ni...@datameet.org
>> skype: nishaqt
>> mobile: 962-061-2245
>>  
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] Re: Open Data and Data Standards in Indian Transportation

[srinivas kodali]

Well i haven`t laid out the complete sections of the document yet. But it
will be majorly on the following topics

1. Standards and Structured data storage of transport data

2. Different practices in transport applications/data analysis

3. Copy rights and licenses of data

4. Open data and Open Source implementations in transport

It will be majorly a technical document with minor details on open-data
policies and advantages. Individuals who want to contribute need to be
fairly aware of the following technologies:

These are just to give you an idea what you will be working on. You don`t
need to know everything

1. Database design
2. Exposure to OSM, Geojson and Maps/Tranport related specs
3. Exposure to handling Big data (The data can be around 10-40 GB easily)
4. Standards in Transport data (GTFS, GTFS Realtime,SIRI)
5. Expertise in Socket Programming, Protocol Buffers, real-time data
protocols.

We will be evaluating and implementing couple of applications/protocols
before we recommend it. It will be fairly a technical document. The
document will be shared in the group after completion for two reviews.
 Everybody can contribute in terms of suggestions and criticizing the
suggestions.

Regards,
Srinivas

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Dilip Damle  wrote:

> Srinivas,
>
> I think it will better if you can list out the tasks that other
> contributors are expected to do.
> Based on that and the individual capability and time may be some of us may
> enlist ourselves for a particular task.
>
>
> rgds
> Dilip Damle
> (New Delhi)
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:40:46 PM UTC+5:30, srinivas kodali wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am looking to publish a technical document on data standards for
>> transport agencies in India. This document will be published through
>> datameet and we are also looking at getting these implemented across
>> transport agencies.
>>
>> The attached technical document from BMTC will give you an Idea what you
>> will be making, but a bit more precise and usage of open data, open source
>> technologies in transport.
>>
>> The timeline we are looking at is 4-6 weeks. Anybody interested in
>> transportation is welcome to contribute. Please state your intentions for
>> contribution within this week.
>>
>> We need this, so that we can have unified transport data across the
>> country, regardless of states and governments.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Srinivas
>>
>  --
> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "datameet" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] [Show Data] City Dashboard

[Vaibhav P]

More ever,  The factors they considered to represent the data is more/less
common to every city. I wish they had a framework in place to generalized
the visualization they had achieved depending on the city data. And if not
to argue, the factors they considered keeping city in mind looks promising
for policy makers too :)

-Vaibhav


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Meera  wrote:

> Nice and appealing in a geeky sense :)
> I would be happy to try this if we can figure out a way to make it connect
> to average readers. Unfortunately, as far as policy makers are concerned,
> there are not anywhere near using such data.
>
> -Meera
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Vaibhav P 
> wrote:
>
>> Found this on today's HN feed. Can't imagine a day when every city has
>> something like this.
>>
>> http://citydashboard.waag.org/
>>
>> -Vaibhav
>>
>> --
>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "datameet" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>  --
> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "datameet" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[datameet] Re: Open Data and Data Standards in Indian Transportation

[Dilip Damle]

Srinivas, 

I think it will better if you can list out the tasks that other 
contributors are expected to do.
Based on that and the individual capability and time may be some of us may 
enlist ourselves for a particular task.


rgds
Dilip Damle
(New Delhi)

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 4:40:46 PM UTC+5:30, srinivas kodali wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking to publish a technical document on data standards for 
> transport agencies in India. This document will be published through 
> datameet and we are also looking at getting these implemented across 
> transport agencies. 
>
> The attached technical document from BMTC will give you an Idea what you 
> will be making, but a bit more precise and usage of open data, open source 
> technologies in transport.
>
> The timeline we are looking at is 4-6 weeks. Anybody interested in 
> transportation is welcome to contribute. Please state your intentions for 
> contribution within this week.
>
> We need this, so that we can have unified transport data across the 
> country, regardless of states and governments.
>
> Regards,
> Srinivas
>  

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] [Show Data] City Dashboard

[Meera]

Nice and appealing in a geeky sense :)
I would be happy to try this if we can figure out a way to make it connect
to average readers. Unfortunately, as far as policy makers are concerned,
there are not anywhere near using such data.

-Meera


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Vaibhav P  wrote:

> Found this on today's HN feed. Can't imagine a day when every city has
> something like this.
>
> http://citydashboard.waag.org/
>
> -Vaibhav
>
> --
> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "datameet" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[datameet] [Show Data] City Dashboard

[Vaibhav P]

Found this on today's HN feed. Can't imagine a day when every city has
something like this.

http://citydashboard.waag.org/

-Vaibhav

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India)]

Nisha,

Happy to help but I don't know much barring a bit about web accessibility
from the disability perspective. Can research, collate etc - let me know.

---
*VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
http://about.me/vjayakumar


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Nisha Thompson  wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> We have done a few things in the past with the NIC specifically this list
> of data standards
>
> http://datameet.org/standards-for-data/
>
> Feedback to NDSAP
> http://datameet.org/wiki/responsetondsap
>
> But nothing in terms of a DataMeet standards for open data.  Maybe we can
> put together a few resources like the ones mentioned above and add it as an
> attachment to the letter?
>
> Who want to help with this?
>
> Nisha
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Chandrashekhar Raman <
> chandrashekhar.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Want to echo the points made by a few folks on the 'tyranny of pdfs'
>>
>> I have spent countless hours with free trial versions of pdf to excel
>> conversion software to wrangle election data from pdfs available online
>> into a usable excel format (or csv). and in the process infected my
>> computer with countless malware.Extracting and cleaning data is a learning
>> exercise in itself, but making it available in a machine readable format
>> will take this to a whole new level.
>>
>> Tim Barnes Lees framework on the 'degree of open-ness' of open data is
>> perhaps relevant to this discussion.
>>
>>   1 Star Data available on the Web, with an open license, but non
>> machine readable - E.g. Zip files and PDFs  2 Star Data available in
>> Machine-readable proprietary formats e.g. Excel  3 Star Data available
>> in machine-readable, non-proprietary formats e.g. XML, RDF, JSON or even CSV 
>>  4
>> Star Data Available using an open linked data format (URI so people can
>> point to your data)  5 Star Data available and linked to other data ( to
>> provide context and relationships)
>>
>> I am not a tech expert - but seems that there is a lot of activity around
>> moving much of data from '1star' to the '5star' level - and that could be
>> one guiding thought for us as a group.
>>
>> cs
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
>>> What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of
>>> numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??
>>>
>>> I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse to
>>> the fact that pdf is an open standard.
>>> And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not
>>> image-pdfs.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>> Mahroof
>>> 
>>> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
>>> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>>>
 Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure
 easy PDF/UA
 creation
 (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
 Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
 exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to
 lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
 good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
 http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
 accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
 not just run of the mill accessibility)  *

 Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where
 FOSS alternatives exist.
 Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
 document format  recently.
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/

 Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
 But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
 http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
 :

 What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever,
> why ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or
> .xcl. As Nathanial Manning
> 
>  puts
> it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing
> it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”


 ---
 *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
 http://ab

[datameet] Re: [delhi] datameet-up on august 27 - planning

[sumandro]

Dear all,

Thanks a lot Rohith!

Let us have the meet-up in CBGA then. I guess this will make it easier for
people from CBGA to join in as well (who can help us a lot to read through
the budget datasets).

As for the budget datasests, as the new expenditure table (Union Budget
2014-15) are yet to be available in spreadsheet formats, should we instead
work with the 2013-14 sheets (they are available in *.xls* format at <
data.gov.in>)?

Thematic focus on expenditures in social sectors sounds good. If our
exercise can tie-up with something CBGA is already doing, that will also be
fine.

Let us keep the pdf-to-csv exercises for the next meet-up, and focus this
one on understanding budget data, visualising that, and finding out what
all data is missing (or not readily usable), so that we can make request
for that through .

Is that alright? Please feel free to suggest other possibilities.

>From a brief look at  datasets, it seemed to me that most of
them are available at a highly aggregated level. This is surely something
we can try to address, through data requests and by speaking directly with
NIC and other ministries (as possible).

Bests,

riju

PS: Thank also for the clarification about allocation for 'smart cities',

sumandro
ajantriks.net





On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Rohith Jyothish 
wrote:

> Dear Delhi DataMeetniks
>
> CBGA can definitely host DataMeet on August 27th from 2.30 to 6.30 pm.
> Upto 15 people with laptops can sit comfortably in the meeting room.
>
> Regarding the use of data, excel sheets are available for Union Budget
> upto the Interim Budget 2014-15. It is not there for the latest Union
> Budget 2014-15. (http://indiabudget.nic.in/)
>
> 1) We can start with the Expenditure Budget
>  presented along with the Union
> Budget 2014-15.
>
> 2) Eventually, we can also try some State Budgets that are available
> online which are almost always in pdf format.
>
> We can work on visualisations for budget expenditure in the social sector.
> Maybe look at specific schemes in Health and Family Welfare, Education, etc.
>
> As far as the budget for smart cities goes, you'll find real allocations
> starting with the next budget. Right now, there has only been an
> announcement and a token allocation of Rs 100 crore.
>
>
> Regards
>
> *Rohith Jyothish*
> *Research Consultant*
> *Centre for Budget and Governance Accountability (CBGA)*
> B-7 Extn. /110A (Ground Floor), Harsukh Marg
> Safdarjung Enclave, New Delhi - 110029
> Tel:(011) 4920 0412, 4050 4846 (fax)
> Mob: +91 8587937518
> Follow us on: | cbgaindia.org | Facebook
>  | Twitter
>  |
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Dilip Damle]

hi all,

I personally feel this about PDF 

It may have become an open format. 
However this 'open' is relevant more for the people developing software for 
and around pdf.
For a user it IS a good format for Viewing and Printing anything.
However if you want to use and further process the contents in any manner 
then it is a BAD format whether it is Scanned PDF of a non scanned pdf.
You can not easily get TEXT out from PDF as expected, Tables do not come 
out as tables.
Hence PDF is good as an endpoint but not as any intermediate point.  



On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:41:59 PM UTC+5:30, Chandrashekhar Raman wrote:
>
> Want to echo the points made by a few folks on the 'tyranny of pdfs'
>
> I have spent countless hours with free trial versions of pdf to excel 
> conversion software to wrangle election data from pdfs available online 
> into a usable excel format (or csv). and in the process infected my 
> computer with countless malware.Extracting and cleaning data is a learning 
> exercise in itself, but making it available in a machine readable format 
> will take this to a whole new level. 
>
> Tim Barnes Lees framework on the 'degree of open-ness' of open data is 
> perhaps relevant to this discussion.
>
>   1 Star Data available on the Web, with an open license, but non machine 
> readable - E.g. Zip files and PDFs  2 Star Data available in 
> Machine-readable proprietary formats e.g. Excel  3 Star Data available in 
> machine-readable, non-proprietary formats e.g. XML, RDF, JSON or even CSV  4 
> Star Data Available using an open linked data format (URI so people can 
> point to your data)  5 Star Data available and linked to other data ( to 
> provide context and relationships) 
>
> I am not a tech expert - but seems that there is a lot of activity around 
> moving much of data from '1star' to the '5star' level - and that could be 
> one guiding thought for us as a group.
>
> cs
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ma-roof M  > wrote:
>
>> I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
>> What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of 
>> numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??
>>
>> I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse to 
>> the fact that pdf is an open standard. 
>> And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not image-pdfs.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Mahroof
>> 
>> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>>  
>>
>>
>> On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
>> vaishnavi...@inclusiveindia.info > wrote:
>>
>>> Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure 
>>> easy PDF/UA 
>>> creation
>>>  
>>> (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe 
>>> Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place 
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth 
>>> exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to 
>>> lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a 
>>> good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles. 
>>> http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
>>>  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff 
>>> accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis - 
>>> not just run of the mill accessibility)  *
>>>
>>> Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where 
>>> FOSS alternatives exist. 
>>> Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open 
>>> document format  recently. 
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/
>>>
>>> Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes. 
>>> But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via 
>>> http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
>>> :
>>>
>>> What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever, why 
 ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or 
 .xcl. As Nathanial Manning 
 
  puts 
 it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing 
 it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
>>> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ma-roof M >> > wrote:
>>>
 for that matter, pdf is an open standard. So are office formats since 
 v2007 (office open xml).

 We might want to specifically address the issue of the "image-pdf" 
>>

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Nisha Thompson]

Hey All,

We have done a few things in the past with the NIC specifically this list
of data standards

http://datameet.org/standards-for-data/

Feedback to NDSAP
http://datameet.org/wiki/responsetondsap

But nothing in terms of a DataMeet standards for open data.  Maybe we can
put together a few resources like the ones mentioned above and add it as an
attachment to the letter?

Who want to help with this?

Nisha


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Chandrashekhar Raman <
chandrashekhar.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Want to echo the points made by a few folks on the 'tyranny of pdfs'
>
> I have spent countless hours with free trial versions of pdf to excel
> conversion software to wrangle election data from pdfs available online
> into a usable excel format (or csv). and in the process infected my
> computer with countless malware.Extracting and cleaning data is a learning
> exercise in itself, but making it available in a machine readable format
> will take this to a whole new level.
>
> Tim Barnes Lees framework on the 'degree of open-ness' of open data is
> perhaps relevant to this discussion.
>
>   1 Star Data available on the Web, with an open license, but non machine
> readable - E.g. Zip files and PDFs  2 Star Data available in
> Machine-readable proprietary formats e.g. Excel  3 Star Data available in
> machine-readable, non-proprietary formats e.g. XML, RDF, JSON or even CSV  4
> Star Data Available using an open linked data format (URI so people can
> point to your data)  5 Star Data available and linked to other data ( to
> provide context and relationships)
>
> I am not a tech expert - but seems that there is a lot of activity around
> moving much of data from '1star' to the '5star' level - and that could be
> one guiding thought for us as a group.
>
> cs
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>
>> I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
>> What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of
>> numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??
>>
>> I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse to
>> the fact that pdf is an open standard.
>> And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not image-pdfs.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Mahroof
>> 
>> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
>> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure
>>> easy PDF/UA
>>> creation
>>> (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
>>> Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
>>> exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to
>>> lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
>>> good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
>>> http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
>>>  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
>>> accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
>>> not just run of the mill accessibility)  *
>>>
>>> Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where
>>> FOSS alternatives exist.
>>> Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
>>> document format  recently.
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/
>>>
>>> Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
>>> But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
>>> http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
>>> :
>>>
>>> What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever, why
 ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or
 .xcl. As Nathanial Manning
 
  puts
 it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing
 it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
>>> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>>>
 for that matter, pdf is an open standard. So are office formats since
 v2007 (office open xml).

 We might want to specifically address the issue of the "image-pdf"
 menace.

 Kind Regards
 Mahroof

 
 Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a

Re: [datameet] Data Sharing Guidelines

[Dilip Damle]

Hi all, 

With reference to the ECI letter thread I feel it is time to awaken this 
thread again.

On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:46:27 AM UTC+5:30, Nisha Thompson wrote:
>
> THanks Dilip,
>
> Those 5 points are right on. I would also add a point about ownership and 
> licensing. 
>
> I think formats is a good conversation we can have. 
>
> comments on the others below
>
>
>  On 26.05.2014 06:50, Dilip Damle wrote:
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > I think we need to discuss the following
>>> >
>>> > 1. When is the data eligible to go to Repository
>>> >
>>> > There could be several factors here. Mainly cleanliness and 
>>> completeness.
>>>
>> 1) I would like to figure out what is a good threshold of cleanliness and 
> completeness?  I think robust meta data is important for that.
>  
>
>>  >
>>> > 2. Place other than Repository for temporary data.
>>> > I think it should surely not be "only an attachment to a post here"
>>> > Then it becomes difficult to find later
>>> > Administrators should decide on suitable place
>>>
>> A temporary file isn't a bad idea.  Maybe a google drive or drop box run 
> by datameet could do that.  We can put up the tasks for each dataset on the 
> web and ask people to clean up then give access? 
>
>>  >
>>> > 3. The particular formats itself
>>> >
>>> > This could vary based on type of data
>>> >
>>> > My observations  is that  for many types of data  Multiple Linked 
>>> Tables
>>> > serve better than a single CSV file which is more common.
>>> > In this case is .mdb acceptable or is there any other open format for
>>> > linked tables.
>>> >
>>> > this could be a long topic...
>>> >
>>> > 4. Compressing multiple files in one file
>>> >
>>> > Unless there is a reason multiple files that go together should be
>>> > bundled in to one file.
>>> > This should also be true for repository.
>>> >
>>> > 5. About the content itself
>>> >
>>> > Since multiple people will contribute/edit to data we will have to have
>>> > some rules.
>>> > example : when there is a Unique for the data it should always be used
>>> > otherwise combining comparing the data becomes difficult.
>>> > ( presently I am trying to collate the election results data and find
>>> > there are differences in the different sources especially in the Names
>>> > of places. Will be putting up the collated data in .mdb format in a few
>>> > days)
>>>
>> I'm going to think about for a bit but i think standardization is a 
> really important task that requires a larger discussion. 
>
>>  >
>>> > On Friday, May 23, 2014 10:06:35 AM UTC+5:30, Nisha Thompson wrote:
>>> >
>>> > In the discussion guidelines thread Dilip suggested we have some
>>> > data sharing guidelines and a place to store some of the more 
>>> casual
>>> > datasets, people are cleaning up.
>>> >
>>> > I think its a good idea.
>>> >
>>> > Can we use this thread as a place to discuss formats, procedure, 
>>> and
>>> > a good place to put it.
>>> >
>>> > We have a github already set up, we can start with that, maybe
>>> > create a project called - Data that needs to be cleaned up.
>>> >
>>> > Any other suggestions?
>>> >
>>> > Nisha
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Nisha Thompson
>>> > DataMeet.org
>>> > ni...@datameet.org 
>>> > skype: nishaqt
>>> > mobile: 962-061-2245
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
>>> > about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>>> > ---
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> > Groups "datameet" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> > an email to datameet+u...@googlegroups.com 
>>> > .
>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Raphael Susewind | BGHS Bielefeld University, CSASP University of Oxford
>>>   Snail Mail | Melanchthonstr. 4a, 33615 Bielefeld, Germany
>>>Web & Twitter | http://www.raphael-susewind.de | @RaphaelSusewind
>>>
>>> Please do consider http://www.gnupg.org for encryption (key id A5ED49AE)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more 
>>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "datameet" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to datameet+u...@googlegroups.com .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more 
>> about us by visiting http://datameet.org
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "datameet" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to datameet+u...@googlegroups.com .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>  -- 
>> Data

Re: [datameet] India's Media -- Missing the Data Journalism Revolution?

[Mohit Arora]

Here is one Indian website I recently bumped into which I think is trying
this out. I am not sure if they are making money at this stage, but I feel
its a step in right direction :
http://www.indiaspend.com

Also I came to know that The Hindu has recently made substantial
investments to have data-backed stories and this url could be an output of
the same:
http://www.thehindu.com/data/


Thanks,
Mohit Arora




On 12 August 2014 08:28, Nisha Thompson  wrote:

> I also agree.  But my point is along the lines that yes there is good
> investigative journalism and data journalism in some places.  But the
> Guardian and NYT with their large data crunching capacity are the
> exceptions and the NYT is going bankrupt. I also am weary of waiting around
> to see how sites like ProPublica and others find ways to become sustainable
> financially. The pressures and lack of capacity are in newsrooms all over
> the world including the west.
>
> India is the rule not the exception.
>
> This is not just a problem with Indian journalists and that means there is
> a great opportunity to experiment and find new ways to work with them and
> others to find different ways of promoting investigative and data
> journalism.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Mohit Arora  wrote:
>
>> I think the context here is being taken in wrong sense. No one can deny
>> the role of investigative journalism but at the same time its equally
>> important to have data backed journalism. In fact, data journalism can
>> actually complement investigative journalism.
>>
>> So on this note, I would largely agree with the article. I have a few
>> friends in media and have been talking to few journalists personally. There
>> is so much focus and pressure on the journalists for "breaking stories"
>> that they patience, time and effort required for data journalism is  just
>> not there. Add to that the fact that most of the journalists are not
>> skilled enough to extract the required data from various sources in an
>> efficient manner. I am not sure, but I have heard that some workshops are
>> planned across the country to make them aware of some basic scripting (and
>> other required) knowledge so that they can extract basic data themselves, I
>> don't think there is an industry-wide push in that direction.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mohit Arora
>>
>>
>> On 11 August 2014 12:30, Nisha Thompson  wrote:
>>
>>> i think this title is weird...
>>>
>>> what revolution are we talking about? while you get solid investigative
>>> and data reporting in the west the funding is disappearing rapidly and the
>>> reporters doing this work are being squeezed.  Real local reporting is
>>> almost non existent... most of the US is also missing out on this amazing
>>> revolution as well...So don't feel so left out!
>>>
>>> The article I find to be pretty interesting.  I agree more data that is
>>> actionable, can be used it is a necessity to help build capacity and skills
>>> in news rooms.  Also just pushing for data journalism is a short sighted
>>> ask.  Investigative journalism needs to be pushed also.
>>>
>>> I think there is plenty of interest in getting facts and moving the
>>> media coverage in that direction.  Whether we can pull together and make it
>>> a realty is another question.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Meera  wrote:
>>>
 What do you folks think?

 -Meera
 
 India’s Media — Missing the Data Journalism Revolution?

 How can media make sense of a country that has over 1.2 billion people
 (about 17 percent of the global population), close to 800 languages, an
 electorate of 814 million, and the largest urban agglomeration in the 
 world?

 How does one plan for a country where, at the end of 2012, about 22 per
 cent of the population lived below the poverty line (with a daily spending
 of less than about US45 cents in rural India and US55 cents in urban
 India), but which also has 89 billionaires and features fifth in the Global
 Rich List ? The
 country's latest Census
 
  in
 2011 was taken with the help of 2.3 million enumerators travelling to more
 than 630,000 villages and more than 5000 cities. Census officials counted
 the thousands of homeless scouring footpaths and railway stations, while
 managing to include even the lone surviving Pakistani terrorist behind the
 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

 http://gijn.org/2014/07/21/indias-media-missing-the-data-journalism-revolution/

 --
 Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more
 about us by visiting http://datameet.org
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "datameet" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email 

[datameet] Re: View of the map data for the Deccan

[Devdatta Tengshe]

Hi Arun,

This is a Gorgeous Map. I specially loved the colour combination.

Could you share the QGIS map (.qgs) file, so that I can create similar maps 
for other areas?

Regards,
Devdatta Tengshe



On Monday, August 11, 2014 12:13:48 AM UTC+5:30, Arun Ganesh wrote:
>
> This might interest folks who are interested in the data quality and 
> coverage in the openstreetmap project. Check this render of the highways, 
> rivers, cities and towns made using the latest osm dump:
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Cities_and_Towns_in_the_Deccan_Plateau,_India.png
>
> The yellow areas are the highway=residential or living_street segments. 
> Cities seem to be in decent shape. Towns are yet to see much street level 
> detail. Only areas around Bangalore seem to have details in the rural areas.
>
> The hydrology detail looks really good. Almost all rivers are mapped.
>  
> -- 
>  Arun Ganesh 
> (planemad) 
>   
>

-- 
Datameet is a community of Data Science enthusiasts in India. Know more about 
us by visiting http://datameet.org
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"datameet" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to datameet+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Chandrashekhar Raman]

Want to echo the points made by a few folks on the 'tyranny of pdfs'

I have spent countless hours with free trial versions of pdf to excel
conversion software to wrangle election data from pdfs available online
into a usable excel format (or csv). and in the process infected my
computer with countless malware.Extracting and cleaning data is a learning
exercise in itself, but making it available in a machine readable format
will take this to a whole new level.

Tim Barnes Lees framework on the 'degree of open-ness' of open data is
perhaps relevant to this discussion.

  1 Star Data available on the Web, with an open license, but non machine
readable - E.g. Zip files and PDFs  2 Star Data available in
Machine-readable proprietary formats e.g. Excel  3 Star Data available in
machine-readable, non-proprietary formats e.g. XML, RDF, JSON or even CSV  4
Star Data Available using an open linked data format (URI so people can
point to your data)  5 Star Data available and linked to other data ( to
provide context and relationships)

I am not a tech expert - but seems that there is a lot of activity around
moving much of data from '1star' to the '5star' level - and that could be
one guiding thought for us as a group.

cs



On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Ma-roof M  wrote:

> I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
> What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of
> numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??
>
> I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse to
> the fact that pdf is an open standard.
> And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not image-pdfs.
>
> Kind Regards
> Mahroof
> 
> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>
>
>
> On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>
>> Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure
>> easy PDF/UA
>> creation
>> (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
>> Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
>> exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to
>> lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
>> good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
>> http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
>>  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
>> accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
>> not just run of the mill accessibility)  *
>>
>> Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where
>> FOSS alternatives exist.
>> Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
>> document format  recently.
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/
>>
>> Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
>> But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
>> http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
>> :
>>
>> What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever, why
>>> ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or
>>> .xcl. As Nathanial Manning
>>> 
>>>  puts
>>> it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing
>>> it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”
>>
>>
>> ---
>> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
>> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>>
>>> for that matter, pdf is an open standard. So are office formats since
>>> v2007 (office open xml).
>>>
>>> We might want to specifically address the issue of the "image-pdf"
>>> menace.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards
>>> Mahroof
>>>
>>> 
>>> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 August 2014 10:18, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
>>> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>>>
 Are there no guidelines in existence for what formats need to be used
 for data / information sharing? If data is open, isn't it necessarily in
 open formats?

 Echo that the letter needs to be sent. But Datameet should next
 prioritise advocating for standard open formats for information sharing at
 the policy level.

 In my work on disability advocacy, most of the time the bills put up
 asking for public comments are pdfs created by crooke

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Ma-roof M]

I agree fully. I am as enraged by the pdfs as many others are :-)
What can be more enraging than staring at a scanned pdf, with tables of
numbers, which one is absolutely sure came out of a spreadsheet..??

I was hinting that if we say open standards, they could take recourse to
the fact that pdf is an open standard.
And at the least, ensure that whatever pdfs get shared are not image-pdfs.

Kind Regards
Mahroof

Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..



On 12 August 2014 12:40, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:

> Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure easy 
> PDF/UA
>
> creation
> (PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
> Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
> exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to
> lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
> good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
> http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
>  *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
> accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
> not just run of the mill accessibility)  *
>
> Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where
> FOSS alternatives exist.
> Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
> document format  recently.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/
>
> Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
> But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
> http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
> :
>
> What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever, why
>> ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or
>> .xcl. As Nathanial Manning
>> 
>>  puts
>> it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing
>> it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”
>
>
> ---
> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ma-roof M  wrote:
>
>> for that matter, pdf is an open standard. So are office formats since
>> v2007 (office open xml).
>>
>> We might want to specifically address the issue of the "image-pdf" menace.
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Mahroof
>>
>> 
>> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12 August 2014 10:18, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
>> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Are there no guidelines in existence for what formats need to be used
>>> for data / information sharing? If data is open, isn't it necessarily in
>>> open formats?
>>>
>>> Echo that the letter needs to be sent. But Datameet should next
>>> prioritise advocating for standard open formats for information sharing at
>>> the policy level.
>>>
>>> In my work on disability advocacy, most of the time the bills put up
>>> asking for public comments are pdfs created by crooked scans of printouts.
>>> It needs to be transcribed before people with near vision / blindness can
>>> read it. Such a waste.
>>>
>>> Nirmita at CIS should be able to advise on universal open formats that
>>> would be equally accessible by disabled people too.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
>>> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Nisha Thompson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That's a really good question.

 I can see them making a point that they comply because a great deal of
 their data is online in some fashion, just not machine readable or easy to
 find.  Also they don't have a data controller registered with the NIC:
 http://data.gov.in/datacontrollers

 It is unclear to me how strong an NDSAP request can be, as it doesn't
 hold the weight an RTI request does.  My vote is we shouldn't and make a
 separate request to the data.gov.in NIC team to meet with them.

 Nisha




 On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Rajesh D Hanbal 
 wrote:

> Nisha,
>
> How does our request fit with the NDSAP? Does it deal only with Dept
> of S & T or does it apply to all departments?
>
> http://www.dst.gov.in/nsdi.html :
>
> "Global experience has demonstrated convincingly that access to data
> leads to breakth

Re: [datameet] 3rd and final? draft to the ECI letter

[Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India)]

Pdf became an open standard, yes. But the software required to ensure
easy PDF/UA
creation
(PDF accessibility for screen readers) is invariably paid i.e. Adobe
Acrobat Pro. Else, training on the following will have to take place
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/pdf.html which will be a mammoth
exercise.  The spectrum of PDF types (hybrid, /A, /UA etc) is also prone to
lead to confusion. The following article on document accessibility is a
good place to start thinking on Universal Design principles.
http://www.accessiq.org/news/news/2014/03/why-document-accessibility-and-pdfua-matters
 *(Accessibility btw is used in disability lingo to refer to stuff
accessible to disabled people as well as non-disabled on an equal basis -
not just run of the mill accessibility)  *

Ethically I am against government using paid proprietary software where
FOSS alternatives exist.
Which is why I was pleased to see UK's official adoption of the open
document format  recently.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/uk_government_officially_adopts_open_document_format/

Can PDFs be made accessible? Yes.
But I'd go with the sentiment expressed below via
http://datadenkers.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/the-united-nations-and-its-pdf-ghettos-supposedly-open-data-and-the-lack-of-transparency/
:

What is clear though is that frankly, there is no reason whatsoever, why
> ‘open data’ would ever be ‘released’ in PDF format, instead of .csv or
> .xcl. As Nathanial Manning
> 
>  puts
> it: “This is like funding James Cameron to make Avatar, and then releasing
> it in a black and white flipbook. We are missing all the good stuff.”


---
*VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
http://about.me/vjayakumar


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Ma-roof M  wrote:

> for that matter, pdf is an open standard. So are office formats since
> v2007 (office open xml).
>
> We might want to specifically address the issue of the "image-pdf" menace.
>
> Kind Regards
> Mahroof
>
> 
> Knowledge, that is *discovered*, lasts a lifetime..
>
>
>
> On 12 August 2014 10:18, Vaishnavi Jayakumar (Inclusive India) <
> vaishnavi.jayaku...@inclusiveindia.info> wrote:
>
>> Are there no guidelines in existence for what formats need to be used for
>> data / information sharing? If data is open, isn't it necessarily in open
>> formats?
>>
>> Echo that the letter needs to be sent. But Datameet should next
>> prioritise advocating for standard open formats for information sharing at
>> the policy level.
>>
>> In my work on disability advocacy, most of the time the bills put up
>> asking for public comments are pdfs created by crooked scans of printouts.
>> It needs to be transcribed before people with near vision / blindness can
>> read it. Such a waste.
>>
>> Nirmita at CIS should be able to advise on universal open formats that
>> would be equally accessible by disabled people too.
>>
>> ---
>> *VAISHNAVI JAYAKUMAR*
>> http://about.me/vjayakumar
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Nisha Thompson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's a really good question.
>>>
>>> I can see them making a point that they comply because a great deal of
>>> their data is online in some fashion, just not machine readable or easy to
>>> find.  Also they don't have a data controller registered with the NIC:
>>> http://data.gov.in/datacontrollers
>>>
>>> It is unclear to me how strong an NDSAP request can be, as it doesn't
>>> hold the weight an RTI request does.  My vote is we shouldn't and make a
>>> separate request to the data.gov.in NIC team to meet with them.
>>>
>>> Nisha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Rajesh D Hanbal 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Nisha,

 How does our request fit with the NDSAP? Does it deal only with Dept of
 S & T or does it apply to all departments?

 http://www.dst.gov.in/nsdi.html :

 "Global experience has demonstrated convincingly that access to data
 leads to breakthroughs in scientific understanding as well as to economic
 and public good, in addition to several benefits to civil society.   *Given
 the deployment of substantial level of investment of public funds in
 collection of data and the untapped potentials of benefits to social
 society, it has become important to make available non-sensitive data for
 legitimate and registered use."*

 If it is relevant, we could make a reference to it. Otherwise, the
 letter looks fine to me.

 Cheers,
 Rajesh



 On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Nisha Thompson 
 wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> Even though it has been awhile I think it is still important we send
> this letter.
>
> Last round of feedback and then