Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Christoph Biedl]

Lucas Nussbaum wrote...

> To help people contact potential venues, it would be useful to have
> estimates of the requirements.

Indeed. Some of these number are already given in the Wiki at
,
the remaining should be added.

Perhaps we can collect those from the last ten years' Debconfs?

> For example, for a DebConf in Europe, could someone provide guesstimates
> for:
> 
> A) minimal/ideal capacity for on-site accomodation
> B) minimal/ideal capacity during the day (= (A) + people with off-site
>accomodation), typically for meals

Note, this is all guessing (or from the Wiki).

For a DebConf at a location where we can expect many people will arrive,
like in Central Europe, we should be able to accomodate (A) 500 people,
and in other areas 300. And (B) some additional five to ten percent
off-site, depending on the quality of the accomodation.

I'd call these numbers the ideal ones - if it's less and people sign up
when it's already full, tough call.

> C) minimal/ideal number of talk rooms + capacity

I read the Wiki as "minimum three", a few more wouldn't hurt.

> D) minimal/ideal capacity of the main talk room for plenary talks

Sixty/Eighty percent of the total attendance count.

> E) minimal/ideal number of smaller meeting rooms for hacklabs

See the Wiki, there are a few more needs. I'd consider six a minimum.

> F) minimal/ideal network bandwidth

Wiki: 100M/1G (might be a bit outdated)

> G) required on-site or proximity facilities (e.g. bar)?

Not required but certainly a good idea.

Christoph


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Gunnar Wolf]

Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana dijo [Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 12:57:51PM -0300]:
> Hi,
> 
> Probably this isn't a popular opinion, but If you're thinking to host
> DebConf24, I suggest you don't organize 2 weeks of event (DebCamp +
> DebConf).
> 
> Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
> DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much work
> before the main event.
> (...)

I see others have answered as well. I haven't read the whole thread,
but I agree with Stefano. Organizing two weeks of conference is
usually helpful for us as organizers; things are slowly building up,
and we get some sort of "advance notice" if something needs urgent
fixing before The Day Everybody Arrives. Plus, important for a
community as ours, the first week is a social buffer, where you can
focus on reconnecting with colleagues, taking it easier.

Of course, all opinions are valid, and you are a recent local DebConf
organizer after all.

Some people feel that a whole week of DebCamp is too much, and it
feels like paid vacation for some people. For DC14, we tried a model
that interleaved "hacking mornings" or "hacking evenings" throughout
the schedule, but started into the conference right away. It was
helped by the fact we ran it on a very decently wired university
setting. It was, of course, successful --- but I think many people did
end up missing our usual structure.

Anyway, bidders of course can offer whatever they prefer, and your
opinion is –again– valid and useful input if some team wants to take
it.


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Gunnar Wolf]

Tiago Bortoletto Vaz dijo [Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 07:43:59AM -0400]:
> Sruthi, you and the local team did an impressive work on DC23. And everytime I
> looked at you people, you had a peaceful expression and a smile on your face,
> regardless of the circumstances. In my silent observation, I learned a lot
> from you.

I was not in Kochi during DebConf, but was there in
January/February. I can perfectly relate to and subscribe what you
said. It is one of the most cohesive and loving groups I have had the
privilege to work with!

> That said, I'd strongly support your remote help for DC24, or a nomination
> to DC committee, or  who knows, a DPL run :-)

Oh, Sruthi is actually one of the six people in Debian that are
disqualified to be nominated for the DC committee 

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Sruthi Chandran]

On 02/11/23 15:40, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:

Hi,

To help people contact potential venues, it would be useful to have
estimates of the requirements.

For example, for a DebConf in Europe, could someone provide guesstimates
for:

A) minimal/ideal capacity for on-site accomodation
B) minimal/ideal capacity during the day (= (A) + people with off-site
accomodation), typically for meals
C) minimal/ideal number of talk rooms + capacity
D) minimal/ideal capacity of the main talk room for plenary talks
E) minimal/ideal number of smaller meeting rooms for hacklabs
F) minimal/ideal network bandwidth
G) required on-site or proximity facilities (e.g. bar)?

And anything else that is important and that I might have missed.

Lucas


Sharing the checklist we used for DebConf23.

Hall 1:(Noisy hacklab) Capacity 150 (24 hour access required with facility for 
Beer
service in the evenings)
Hall 2: (Silent hacklab) Capacity 30-50 (24 hour access required)
Hall 3: (Main hall) Capacity 300-500
Hall 4: (Second hall) Capacity 75-120
Hall 5: (BoF room) Capacity 40-100
Smaller halls/boardrooms (5 Nos): (front desk, video room, adhoc sessions etc) 
Capacity 10-50
Twin/triple sharing rooms for additional 150-200 people





On 28/10/23 at 17:47 -0300, Antonio Terceiro wrote:

Everyone is probably aware of the current state of affairs in Israel.
Based on that, the DebConf committee has decided to call for bids to
host DebConf24. The committee would like to express their appreciation
of the Israeli team, and the work they've done over several years. Given
the current uncertainty about the situation, we regret that it will,
once again, most likely not be possible to hold DebConf in Israel.

To submit a bid, please create the appropriate page(s) under
https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24/Bids, and add it to the "Bids"
section in the mainhttps://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24  page. There isn't
very much time to make a decision. We need bids by the end of November,
in order to make a decision by the end of the year.  Please send a
message todebconf-t...@lists.debconf.org  to let us know when you are
ready for review of your bid to begin. We also suggest hanging out in
#debconf-team on IRC.

The template for a DebConf bid is:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/LocationCheckList
Given this short deadline, we understand that bids won't be as complete
as they would usually be. Do the best you can in the time available.

Bids are evaluated according to:
https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/PriorityList

You can get in contact with the DebConf team by email to
debconf-t...@lists.debian.org, or via the #debconf-team IRC channel on
OFTC orhttps://matrix.to/#/#debconf-team:matrix.debian.social


--
on behalf of the DebConf committee.




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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Judit Foglszinger]

> I really appreciate that DebConf is two weeks long, because for me not 
> only it added a slow(er) move towards the week with talks, but also it 
> gives you opportunity to get integrated and feel the community.
> 
> That is what, for me personally, separates DebConfs from many other 
> conferences - it feels like community gathering rather than like a work.

yes, I feel the same way :)
the length makes it special

> Maybe some re-organization needs to happen for DebConf part to feel it 
> more relaxed, maybe more ad-hoc with shorter sessions that are then 
> encouraged to go into longer sessions in rooms/hacklabs, but please keep 
> the DebCamp part. :)

I think, one day without talks in the middle (independently of daytrip)
and one in the end as the last day would be good.


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Lucas Nussbaum]

Hi,

To help people contact potential venues, it would be useful to have
estimates of the requirements.

For example, for a DebConf in Europe, could someone provide guesstimates
for:

A) minimal/ideal capacity for on-site accomodation
B) minimal/ideal capacity during the day (= (A) + people with off-site
   accomodation), typically for meals
C) minimal/ideal number of talk rooms + capacity
D) minimal/ideal capacity of the main talk room for plenary talks
E) minimal/ideal number of smaller meeting rooms for hacklabs
F) minimal/ideal network bandwidth
G) required on-site or proximity facilities (e.g. bar)?

And anything else that is important and that I might have missed.

Lucas



On 28/10/23 at 17:47 -0300, Antonio Terceiro wrote:
> Everyone is probably aware of the current state of affairs in Israel.
> Based on that, the DebConf committee has decided to call for bids to
> host DebConf24. The committee would like to express their appreciation
> of the Israeli team, and the work they've done over several years. Given
> the current uncertainty about the situation, we regret that it will,
> once again, most likely not be possible to hold DebConf in Israel.
> 
> To submit a bid, please create the appropriate page(s) under
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24/Bids, and add it to the "Bids"
> section in the main https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24 page. There isn't
> very much time to make a decision. We need bids by the end of November,
> in order to make a decision by the end of the year.  Please send a
> message to debconf-t...@lists.debconf.org to let us know when you are
> ready for review of your bid to begin. We also suggest hanging out in
> #debconf-team on IRC.
> 
> The template for a DebConf bid is:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/LocationCheckList
> Given this short deadline, we understand that bids won't be as complete
> as they would usually be. Do the best you can in the time available.
> 
> Bids are evaluated according to:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/PriorityList
> 
> You can get in contact with the DebConf team by email to
> debconf-t...@lists.debian.org, or via the #debconf-team IRC channel on
> OFTC or https://matrix.to/#/#debconf-team:matrix.debian.social
> 
> 
> -- 
> on behalf of the DebConf committee.

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Marc Haber]

On Thu, Nov 02, 2023 at 02:41:41PM +0530, Badri Sunderarajan wrote:
> Debconf is Debconf; it doesn't require any other labels to describe it ;)

This.

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Jonathan Carter]

On 2023/11/02 11:04, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:

Perhaps Debconf is better as a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference  >?


As far as Unconferences go, DebConf is already an Unconference (many 
events that call themselves "Unconferences" are already way more formal 
than DebConf... I guess that term has become as useless as "Agile" to 
describe something already).


-Jonathan

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Badri Sunderarajan]

On Thu, Nov 2 2023 at 10:04:53 AM +01:00:00 +01:00:00, Petter 
Reinholdtsen  wrote:



Perhaps Debconf is better as a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference> >?


Debconf is Debconf; it doesn't require any other labels to describe it 
;)


But yes, I know you were not talking about the label. I like the 
unconference idea and maybe it can be adapted to Debconf!

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Petter Reinholdtsen]

[Zlatan Todoric]
> Maybe some re-organization needs to happen for DebConf part to feel it 
> more relaxed, maybe more ad-hoc with shorter sessions that are then 
> encouraged to go into longer sessions in rooms/hacklabs, but please keep 
> the DebCamp part. :)

Perhaps Debconf is better as a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference >?

-- 
Happy hacking
Petter Reinholdtsen

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Zlatan Todoric]

On 10/31/23 01:17, Judit Foglszinger wrote:

If we had only 1 week instead of 2, personally I'd prefer a week of
DebCamp over a week of DebConf.

What about two weeks debcamp? :)


You're not the first one suggesting this over the years. :)

I really appreciate that DebConf is two weeks long, because for me not 
only it added a slow(er) move towards the week with talks, but also it 
gives you opportunity to get integrated and feel the community.


That is what, for me personally, separates DebConfs from many other 
conferences - it feels like community gathering rather than like a work.


Maybe some re-organization needs to happen for DebConf part to feel it 
more relaxed, maybe more ad-hoc with shorter sessions that are then 
encouraged to go into longer sessions in rooms/hacklabs, but please keep 
the DebCamp part. :)


Cheers,

Z

P.S. depending on $LOCATION and $LIFE, I would be happy to help in 
organization

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Tiago Bortoletto Vaz]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 06:33:51PM +0200, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> Hey Tiago
> 
> On 2023/10/31 13:43, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote:
> > That said, I'd strongly support your remote help for DC24, or a nomination
> > to DC committee, or  who knows, a DPL run :-)
> 
> Your nomination to the DC committee is too late!
> 
> Sruthi is already a member of the DebConf committee :-)
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2023/09/msg1.html

Oh, that's (old) great news for me, thanks for pointing out!

Bests,
 
-- 
Tiago Vaz
https://tvaz.cc

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Jonathan Carter]

Hey Tiago

On 2023/10/31 13:43, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote:

That said, I'd strongly support your remote help for DC24, or a nomination
to DC committee, or  who knows, a DPL run :-)


Your nomination to the DC committee is too late!

Sruthi is already a member of the DebConf committee :-)

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2023/09/msg1.html

-Jonathan

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Jathan]

I agree with you Sruthi. If more people help as remote local orga members, sure 
that will be very helpful to make it possible DebCamp and DebConf as always,

Regards
Jathan

30 Oct 2023 23:00:19 Sruthi Chandran :

> If the constraint for any team willing to bid for DC24 is only the team size, 
> I would express my interest to be "remote" local orga member (1-2 more Indian 
> team members might also join). Less than 10 months is not enough time to plan 
> a full fledged event, but if we have more people taking up tasks, it can be 
> done.

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Tiago Bortoletto Vaz]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 10:13:25AM +0530, Sruthi Chandran wrote:
[...] 
> If the constraint for any team willing to bid for DC24 is only the team size, 
> I would express my interest to be "remote" local orga member (1-2 more Indian 
> team members might also join). Less than 10 months is not enough time to plan 
> a full fledged event, but if we have more people taking up tasks, it can be 
> done.

(sorry for one more side note on this thread, but couldn't resist)

Sruthi, you and the local team did an impressive work on DC23. And everytime I
looked at you people, you had a peaceful expression and a smile on your face,
regardless of the circumstances. In my silent observation, I learned a lot
from you.

That said, I'd strongly support your remote help for DC24, or a nomination
to DC committee, or  who knows, a DPL run :-)

Bests,

-- 
Tiago Vaz
https://tvaz.cc

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Krishnadev P Melevila]

How to unsubscribe from this maillist?

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 4:29 PM Tzafrir Cohen  wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 09:24:29PM +, Stefano Rivera wrote:
> > Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_20:08:29_+)
> > > But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good
> remove
> > > this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people know
> that
> > > isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?
> >
> > I do worry that DebConf keeps getting bigger and more complex. Things
> > only get added, not removed.
> >
> > But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
> > to see bids that want to change things up!
>
> One thing, though: In Capetown there were maybe 20 in the first day. In
> DC22 and DC23 (and maybe also DC19) there were 60 people or so already
> at the first day of DebCamp. So accommodations had to basically work
> from day 1. DebCamp has become more popular.
>
> --
> mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il
>
>

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Tzafrir Cohen]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 09:24:29PM +, Stefano Rivera wrote:
> Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_20:08:29_+)
> > But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good remove
> > this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people know that
> > isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?
> 
> I do worry that DebConf keeps getting bigger and more complex. Things
> only get added, not removed.
> 
> But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
> to see bids that want to change things up!

One thing, though: In Capetown there were maybe 20 in the first day. In
DC22 and DC23 (and maybe also DC19) there were 60 people or so already
at the first day of DebCamp. So accommodations had to basically work
from day 1. DebCamp has become more popular.

-- 
mail / xmpp / matrix: tzaf...@cohens.org.il

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Ananthu C V]

Attending my first debconf this year, DebCamp allowed me to fit in slowly.
It was a good occasion to get to know many people and learn things from a
lot of them, which otherwise would have been more difficult with the
DebConf part being much busier. Another thing I noticed is that, as Stefano
and Sruthi said, it gave the organizers some breathing room to confirm
everything was working before the DebConf, and there was also the
possibility of getting more potential volunteers from the DebCamp. And
above everything I enjoyed DebCamp thoroughly. So I would say that it would
be such a shame to take the DebCamp out from DebConf24.

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Sruthi Chandran]

On 30 October 2023 11:36:33 pm IST, Stefano Rivera  wrote:
>Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_15:57:51_+)
>> Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
>> DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much work
>> before the main event.
>
>Interesting to hear you say that. I have exactly the opposite view of
>DebCamp. It makes the event start slowly, without needing to have
>everything ready on day 1. Everybody understands if there are no
>nametags, no network in the hacklabs, or the beer is frothy on the first
>day.
>
>It's not like most other events, where there's a mad rush to get
>everything working the night before the conference starts. There's a
>whole week for the conference organizers to get everything ready, for
>the main conference.

I completely agree on this. We kept DebCamp beginning as deadline for 
everything, so we had a week's buffer time. I am also thankful of the DebCamp 
week, that's when most of the work was done. Local team have the advantage that 
they are at the venue with the global team to make things work before the 
actual DebConf.

>
>In Cape Town, we were super lazy. We didn't even provide catered food
>for the first 3 days. We just took the 10-20 attendees out for dinner.
>
>Yes, DebCamp+DebConf does make the event very long. But I didn't find
>that it added anything to my stress. It just let me spread it out.

I also had the same experience. I remember running around making things done in 
DebCamp and was more relaxed during DebConf. Personally I felt that the effort 
to arrange accommodation and food for one week or two weeks were the same 
(maybe because we did in a hotel), if we have the exact number. People turning 
up earlier or late than expected did create problems.

>
>> In 2019 we had 2 weeks, and because most of attendees arrived during
>> DebCamp, we had to deal with accomodation, food and venue for these 2 weeks.
>> When DebConf itself started, I was exhausted and I felt I couldn't join the
>> main part of the event.
>
>That I can relate to. The local organizers almost never get a chance to
>be fully present at the conference. There's usually too much going on,
>that keeps them busy. But I don't think the length of the event plays
>into it much.
>
>Rather, the size and quality of the local team. How effectively tasks
>are delegated, and handled without putting a strain on the main
>organizers.

We had a big team and everyone had their share of work done, so no one was 
overwhelmed. I am thankful to all of them.

If the constraint for any team willing to bid for DC24 is only the team size, I 
would express my interest to be "remote" local orga member (1-2 more Indian 
team members might also join). Less than 10 months is not enough time to plan a 
full fledged event, but if we have more people taking up tasks, it can be done.

>
>As an organizer and videoteam, I usually spend the whole of DebCamp
>working on bringing up infrastructure and getting the conference ready.
>Yes, not having attendees around would mean we could focus more on that
>work... But we'd also not get as much done at the event.
>
>Stefano
>

-- srud
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Wookey]

On 2023-10-31 01:13 +0100, Judit Foglszinger wrote:
> I'd like to add - of course any bid for an in-person for 2024  is better than 
> an "online" debconf

Not from an emissions point of view it isn't.

Wookey
-- 
Principal hats:  Debian, Wookware, ARM
http://wookware.org/


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Judit Foglszinger]

> If we had only 1 week instead of 2, personally I'd prefer a week of
> DebCamp over a week of DebConf.

What about two weeks debcamp? :)



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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Judit Foglszinger]

I'd like to add - of course any bid for an in-person for 2024  is better than 
an "online" debconf,
and depending, how things continue, next year we might need to compromise on 
things we'd rather not :(


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[gregor herrmann]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 21:24:29 +, Stefano Rivera wrote:

> Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_20:08:29_+)
> > But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good remove
> > this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people know that
> > isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?

If we had only 1 week instead of 2, personally I'd prefer a week of
DebCamp over a week of DebConf.
 
> I do worry that DebConf keeps getting bigger and more complex. Things
> only get added, not removed.

Full ack.
 
> But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
> to see bids that want to change things up!

I've been waiting for this since years :)


Cheers,
gregor

-- 
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 : :' : OpenPGP fingerprint D1E1 316E 93A7 60A8 104D  85FA BB3A 6801 8649 AA06
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   `-   


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 09:24:29PM +, Stefano Rivera wrote:

> 
> But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
> to see bids that want to change things up!
> 
> Stefano
> 
> -- 

In all of this - and completely independently of the geopolitical situation -
I'd like to thank Tzafir and the Israeli team for the efforts they have 
made up until this point.

The Kochi presentation made it clear that at that point they were having to
search for a new venue within Haifa. It's a point worth remembering for
everyone involved in planning for the future that we're absolutely 
dependent on the goodwill of university venues or whatever whenever we
do this.

Everybody in Debian is a volunteer - and the Israeli team have put in
lots of time and effort over a period of several years and are probably
now feeling worn out by it all coming to no effect.

Stefano is right: nothing is fixed in stone: if all else fails and everybody
runs out of time, then a virtual Debconf is always a possibility again
though that means nobody meets up

> Stefano Rivera
>   http://tumbleweed.org.za/
>   +1 415 683 3272
>

With every good wish to everyone and good luck for all bids

Andy

(amaca...@debian.org) 

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Judit Foglszinger]

> > But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good remove
> > this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people know that
> > isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?
> 
> I do worry that DebConf keeps getting bigger and more complex. Things
> only get added, not removed.
> 
> But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
> to see bids that want to change things up!

IMHO having this two weeks is part of the core of debconf,
not just some fancy nice to have additional stuff, 
that should be suggested to be removed as part of experimenting.



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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Stefano Rivera]

Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_20:08:29_+)
> But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good remove
> this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people know that
> isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?

I do worry that DebConf keeps getting bigger and more complex. Things
only get added, not removed.

But it doesn't need to be like that. *Nothing* is mandatory, we'd love
to see bids that want to change things up!

Stefano

-- 
Stefano Rivera
  http://tumbleweed.org.za/
  +1 415 683 3272

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana]

Hi,

Just to be clear: I agree with all points you all have listed here about 
DebCamp :-)


But, for 2024, with less months to organize, I think would be good 
remove this workload from Local Team. Or at least, would be good people 
know that isn't mandatory organizing 2 weeks of event, right?


But... if the future local team will be happy to deal with DebCamp + 
DebConf, great :-)


Best regards,

--
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls)
Belo Horizonte - Brasil
Debian Developer
Site: http://phls.com.br
GPG ID: 0443C450


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Judit Foglszinger]

I'm also very much in favour of having a debcamp.
This year it was really impressive with so many people being around,
getting to know and learning from each other.
It really would be a loss to not have it.


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Tiago Bortoletto Vaz]

While I sympathize with paulo's concerns, I would like to add that during (and
subsequent discussions at) our bof about debconfs and the climate crisis at
dc23, I heard several people saying that they would think twice before going
far away to a debconf for just a few days. And from what I understood, a few
days could be anything less than a week long.

That said, it's understandable that dc24 will end up taking place over fewer
days, perhaps with a limit on participation and other exceptions that may be
necessary for it to happen.

Bests,

-- 
Tiago Vaz
https://tvaz.cc

On Mon, Oct 30, 2023 at 06:06:33PM +, Stefano Rivera wrote:
> Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_15:57:51_+)
> > Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
> > DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much work
> > before the main event.
> 
> Interesting to hear you say that. I have exactly the opposite view of
> DebCamp. It makes the event start slowly, without needing to have
> everything ready on day 1. Everybody understands if there are no
> nametags, no network in the hacklabs, or the beer is frothy on the first
> day.
> 
> It's not like most other events, where there's a mad rush to get
> everything working the night before the conference starts. There's a
> whole week for the conference organizers to get everything ready, for
> the main conference.
> 
> In Cape Town, we were super lazy. We didn't even provide catered food
> for the first 3 days. We just took the 10-20 attendees out for dinner.
> 
> Yes, DebCamp+DebConf does make the event very long. But I didn't find
> that it added anything to my stress. It just let me spread it out.
> 
> > In 2019 we had 2 weeks, and because most of attendees arrived during
> > DebCamp, we had to deal with accomodation, food and venue for these 2 weeks.
> > When DebConf itself started, I was exhausted and I felt I couldn't join the
> > main part of the event.
> 
> That I can relate to. The local organizers almost never get a chance to
> be fully present at the conference. There's usually too much going on,
> that keeps them busy. But I don't think the length of the event plays
> into it much.
> 
> Rather, the size and quality of the local team. How effectively tasks
> are delegated, and handled without putting a strain on the main
> organizers.
> 
> As an organizer and videoteam, I usually spend the whole of DebCamp
> working on bringing up infrastructure and getting the conference ready.
> Yes, not having attendees around would mean we could focus more on that
> work... But we'd also not get as much done at the event.
> 
> Stefano
> 
> -- 
> Stefano Rivera
>   http://tumbleweed.org.za/
>   +1 415 683 3272
> 



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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Stefano Rivera]

Hi Paulo (2023.10.30_15:57:51_+)
> Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
> DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much work
> before the main event.

Interesting to hear you say that. I have exactly the opposite view of
DebCamp. It makes the event start slowly, without needing to have
everything ready on day 1. Everybody understands if there are no
nametags, no network in the hacklabs, or the beer is frothy on the first
day.

It's not like most other events, where there's a mad rush to get
everything working the night before the conference starts. There's a
whole week for the conference organizers to get everything ready, for
the main conference.

In Cape Town, we were super lazy. We didn't even provide catered food
for the first 3 days. We just took the 10-20 attendees out for dinner.

Yes, DebCamp+DebConf does make the event very long. But I didn't find
that it added anything to my stress. It just let me spread it out.

> In 2019 we had 2 weeks, and because most of attendees arrived during
> DebCamp, we had to deal with accomodation, food and venue for these 2 weeks.
> When DebConf itself started, I was exhausted and I felt I couldn't join the
> main part of the event.

That I can relate to. The local organizers almost never get a chance to
be fully present at the conference. There's usually too much going on,
that keeps them busy. But I don't think the length of the event plays
into it much.

Rather, the size and quality of the local team. How effectively tasks
are delegated, and handled without putting a strain on the main
organizers.

As an organizer and videoteam, I usually spend the whole of DebCamp
working on bringing up infrastructure and getting the conference ready.
Yes, not having attendees around would mean we could focus more on that
work... But we'd also not get as much done at the event.

Stefano

-- 
Stefano Rivera
  http://tumbleweed.org.za/
  +1 415 683 3272

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Daniel Lenharo]

I completely agree. It would be an exception to DC 24, and there is no 
reason to have an extra workload. Leave a few days in advance only for 
those who will assist in the infrastructure (video-team, FD).


Em 30/10/2023 12:57, Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana escreveu:

Hi,

Probably this isn't a popular opinion, but If you're thinking to host 
DebConf24, I suggest you don't organize 2 weeks of event (DebCamp + 
DebConf).


Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much 
work before the main event.


In 2019 we had 2 weeks, and because most of attendees arrived during 
DebCamp, we had to deal with accomodation, food and venue for these 2 
weeks. When DebConf itself started, I was exhausted and I felt I 
couldn't join the main part of the event.


My sugesstion is: open the accomodation on Saturday, start the schedule 
on Sunday, and finish it on next Saturday. And use the Sunday for people 
leave the city, for tourism, or organize just a special lunch (we 
organized a barbecue in Curitiba).


Organize 2 weeks of event with venue, accomodation and food isn't good 
for your mental health :-)


Ps. If video team needs arrive earlier to set up everything, it's ok, 
open a exception for them, and just for them.


Best regards,



Cheers

--
Daniel Lenharo
Curitiba - Brazil
www.sombra.eti.br
31D8 0509 460E FB31 DF4B
9629 FB0E 132D DB0A A5B1

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana]

Hi,

Probably this isn't a popular opinion, but If you're thinking to host 
DebConf24, I suggest you don't organize 2 weeks of event (DebCamp + 
DebConf).


Considering the shorter time, If I was you, I wouldn't organize DebCamp.
DebCamp is nice, it's great to have people earlier, but it's too much 
work before the main event.


In 2019 we had 2 weeks, and because most of attendees arrived during 
DebCamp, we had to deal with accomodation, food and venue for these 2 
weeks. When DebConf itself started, I was exhausted and I felt I 
couldn't join the main part of the event.


My sugesstion is: open the accomodation on Saturday, start the schedule 
on Sunday, and finish it on next Saturday. And use the Sunday for people 
leave the city, for tourism, or organize just a special lunch (we 
organized a barbecue in Curitiba).


Organize 2 weeks of event with venue, accomodation and food isn't good 
for your mental health :-)


Ps. If video team needs arrive earlier to set up everything, it's ok, 
open a exception for them, and just for them.


Best regards,

--
Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls)
Belo Horizonte - Brasil
Debian Developer
Site: http://phls.com.br
GPG ID: 0443C450


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Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[Thomas Goirand]

Hi Matusz,

On 10/29/23 00:06, matusz wrote:
On rhe other hand I would think twice to organize debconf24 in other 
places than Haifa. There is plenty of time (9-10 months) until debconf 
24 Haifa would happen.


When we discussed, with a few friends, about Debconf in Israel in 2018 
in Brazil (in private), I raised the concern that in this area of the 
world, nobody can forecast when a new episode of the conflict starts. 
This is a very serious security concern, which even in 2018, lead me to 
conclude it wasn't safe to plan for a travel in Israel. I feel very 
sorry that I was right ... :(


Even if there's some kind of peace again, or at least, if the conflict 
becomes dormant once more, there's never a guarantee that it will last 
during Debconf. I don't think it's reasonable to take such a risk. I 
very much prefer if we decide *NOW* to go somewhere safer.


BTW, I am, and will always be, on the side of peace. All of this is very 
sad, and I hope that I will see durable peace in this land before I die.


Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

P.S: I carefully avoided any word that may start a debate about the 
current event. That should, IMO, stay away from Debian. I do expect 
everyone else to do the same. If you want to have debates, there are 
other more appropriate places than the Debian project.

Re: Call for bids for DebConf24

[matusz]

Hi!

Please ask the guys biding for 2025. I'm sure some of them could organize
debconf24.
On rhe other hand I would think twice to organize debconf24 in other places
than Haifa. There is plenty of time (9-10 months) until debconf 24 Haifa
would happen.

br,
dezső dénes

Antonio Terceiro  schrieb am Sa., 28. Okt. 2023, 22:48:

> Everyone is probably aware of the current state of affairs in Israel.
> Based on that, the DebConf committee has decided to call for bids to
> host DebConf24. The committee would like to express their appreciation
> of the Israeli team, and the work they've done over several years. Given
> the current uncertainty about the situation, we regret that it will,
> once again, most likely not be possible to hold DebConf in Israel.
>
> To submit a bid, please create the appropriate page(s) under
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24/Bids, and add it to the "Bids"
> section in the main https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/24 page. There isn't
> very much time to make a decision. We need bids by the end of November,
> in order to make a decision by the end of the year.  Please send a
> message to debconf-t...@lists.debconf.org to let us know when you are
> ready for review of your bid to begin. We also suggest hanging out in
> #debconf-team on IRC.
>
> The template for a DebConf bid is:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/LocationCheckList
> Given this short deadline, we understand that bids won't be as complete
> as they would usually be. Do the best you can in the time available.
>
> Bids are evaluated according to:
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/General/Handbook/Bids/PriorityList
>
> You can get in contact with the DebConf team by email to
> debconf-t...@lists.debian.org, or via the #debconf-team IRC channel on
> OFTC or https://matrix.to/#/#debconf-team:matrix.debian.social
>
>
> --
> on behalf of the DebConf committee.
>