Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
On Sun, 04 Feb 2018, "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." wrote: > Hi Phil, > > I find I often benefit from other people's point > of view. > > If you happen to have the time, and are so > inclined, and it would be comfortable, feel free > to elaborate on your comment in bug report #889493. > > I'm particularly curious why you wrote it had no > merit. If you look closely, you'll notice that I didn't actually write that, but never mind. For anything worthwhile to conceivably come out of such a bug, at least one TC member would need to be at least a little interested in discussing it, in which case they would certainly reopen the bug, and we'd then continue as if I'd done nothing. I look at that as simply changing the default state of the incoming bug to closed[1]. Of course one would normally go to the effort of pointing out the specific flaws in the submission, but I'm not going to do that in this case because I wouldn't want to give the false impression that if only you'd done a few things differently it would have been considered. Submitting this bug demonstrates to me that you have fundamentally misunderstood the purpose and power of the Technical Committee. Once that misunderstanding is rectified, you will no longer be tempted to submit the bug in any form. The fact that the original bug also fails to conform with most of the bug submission guidelines is irrelevant. To draw an analogy, you might as well spend your time writing to the Oxford English Dictionary complaining about the inclusion of words you don't like (although please don't, as they also have more useful things to be doing than discarding post). Cheers, Phil. [1] I could imagine us doing that with all bugs in fact -- if the first person to get to the bug doesn't see it as worth discussing they simply close it and leave other members of the TC to reopen it if they disagree. This is much more efficient than leaving it open until after the next meeting, and doesn't give a false impression about what is happening to the submitter. I can think of a couple of recent bugs that would have benefited from this approach ;-) -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg,GERMANY signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
Gunnar Wolf dijo [Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 12:57:47AM -0600]: > - Enough RC bugs (or evidence of regressions, could even be links to > blog posts from people complaining about how systemd is bad or > whatever) Just to be clear - Yes, you linked to the list of bugs on systemd. No piece of software as widely used as systemd is expected to be completely bug-free; the list of bugs is as long as I'd expect it to be, but there is only one grave bug (#784682, resolved) and only one serious bug (#889144, open). Looking for bugs in unstable yields ~10 open serious bugs, but that's quite expectable at this point on the release cycle. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
Philip Hands dijo [Sat, Feb 03, 2018 at 10:22:19PM +0100]: > On Sat, 03 Feb 2018, "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." wrote: > > Package: tech-ctte > > I don't formally have the right to simply close this bug (as I am now > doing), so if anyone else on the TC thinks there is any merit whatsoever > in this bug report, please feel free to reopen it. > > Cheers, Phil. Thanks for swiftly doing this, Phil. Kingsley, answering to your point: The Technical Committee is not an investigative body. If you want us to devote countless hours, as the TC back in 2013-14 did, and expose to endless flaming again... Please back your request with: - Enough RC bugs (or evidence of regressions, could even be links to blog posts from people complaining about how systemd is bad or whatever) - Clear reasons why the outlook back in 2014 should need to be reevaluated; "enough time has passed" is not a reason. I clearly agree with Phil closing this bug. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
Le samedi, 3 février 2018, 22.22:19 h CET Philip Hands a écrit : > On Sat, 03 Feb 2018, "Kingsley G. Morse Jr." wrote: > > Package: tech-ctte > > I don't formally have the right to simply close this bug (as I am now > doing), so if anyone else on the TC thinks there is any merit whatsoever > in this bug report, please feel free to reopen it. I concur with the closing of this bug, thank you for promptly doing so. Cheers, OdyX signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
Hi Phil, I find I often benefit from other people's point of view. If you happen to have the time, and are so inclined, and it would be comfortable, feel free to elaborate on your comment in bug report #889493. I'm particularly curious why you wrote it had no merit. So, Kingsley -- Time is the fire in which we all burn.
Bug#889493: tech-ctte: Please review if systemd is reliable enough to be the default
Package: tech-ctte Severity: important First of all, thank you very much for sharing your time and expertise with the debian project. I'm happy to report I've been using it 24x7 since 1996. The main reason I'm writing is that it seems to me 1.) the committee decided in 2014 that systemd would be the default init system[1]. 2.) enough a.) years have passed, b.) committee members have changed[2] and c.) bugs have been reported[3] to re-evaluate whether systemd is reliable enough to be debian's default init system. So, Kingsley [1] [CTTE #727708] Default init system for Debian https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html [2] WikiPedia systemd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd "In November 2014 Debian maintainers and Technical Committee members Joey Hess,[81] Russ Allbery,[82] Ian Jackson[83] and systemd package-maintainer Tollef Fog Heen[84] resigned from their positions." [3] Debian Bug report logs: Bugs in package systemd https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=systemd;dist=stable
