Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On 18.09.20 15:41, Norbert Preining wrote: Hi Marc, we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working on updating Plasma in Debian. (...) So yes, things are moving, in particular to the collaborative attitude of Scarlett and their and Patrick's work. Thanks a lot everybody for the work and also for a reestablished collaboration! This for sure involved some not so easy steps, but you made it, I am giving kudos to all of you! Your users are very happy to read this and are very thankful to all of you who care for Debian! Best wishes, Marco.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Martin Steigerwald - 18.09.20, 17:58:58 CEST: > Luc Castermans - 18.09.20, 16:14:14 CEST: > > Op vr 18 sep. 2020 om 15:49 schreef Marc Haber > k...@zugschlus.de>: […] > Just for everyone: Plasma 5.19 cannot be tested in complete at the > moment as some packages are going through NEW queue and thus need to > acknowledged manually by FTP masters. > > To me this has been clear from what Norbert wrote and I see to Marc as > well. But to make sure its really clear, here you have it. > > That said, I installed some packages from experimental already. And > they are working here. However, with anything in experimental, if it > breaks, you get to keep the pieces. I won't share the packages names > for now, if you like to be adventurous and are experienced enough I > am sure you find out yourself. Luigi pointed out to me that also Plasma packages are intended to be installed in lock step regarding their version. I was aware of this for KDE Frameworks, but I was not aware of this for Plasma. So this is another way things can break. The other one is that they are still experimental packages. So not recommended. And if you still mix versions you get to keep the pieces *twice* :) Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear Norbert. Norbert Preining - 18.09.20, 15:41:30 CEST: > we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working on > updating Plasma in Debian. For now we are uploading 5.19(.4) to > Debian/experimental, but this needs a few iterations due to NEW > processing, but hopefully it will be all done soon. Thank you very much! Many thanks also to Scarlett and Patrick! It is great that you work together! Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Luc Castermans - 18.09.20, 16:14:14 CEST: > Op vr 18 sep. 2020 om 15:49 schreef Marc Haber : > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:41:30PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: > > > we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working > > > on > > > updating Plasma in Debian. For now we are uploading 5.19(.4) to > > > Debian/experimental, but this needs a few iterations due to NEW > > > processing, but hopefully it will be all done soon. > > > > That is really really good news, thanks for the update! > > > > I am especially glad that things are going forward as a team effort > > and that the team has at least one VERY experienced DD. Thank you > > all for doing this. > > > > Please keep people updated about your progress and especially the > > state of the experimental packages, I have a test notebook that I > > don't mind breaking occasionally, so I can do testing if the > > packages are in a state when trying them makes sense. I guess other > > people might be able to help with that as well. […] > I am happy to test as well! Just for everyone: Plasma 5.19 cannot be tested in complete at the moment as some packages are going through NEW queue and thus need to acknowledged manually by FTP masters. To me this has been clear from what Norbert wrote and I see to Marc as well. But to make sure its really clear, here you have it. That said, I installed some packages from experimental already. And they are working here. However, with anything in experimental, if it breaks, you get to keep the pieces. I won't share the packages names for now, if you like to be adventurous and are experienced enough I am sure you find out yourself. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi, I am happy to test as well! Luc Op vr 18 sep. 2020 om 15:49 schreef Marc Haber : > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:41:30PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: > > we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working on > > updating Plasma in Debian. For now we are uploading 5.19(.4) to > > Debian/experimental, but this needs a few iterations due to NEW > > processing, but hopefully it will be all done soon. > > That is really really good news, thanks for the update! > > I am especially glad that things are going forward as a team effort and > that the team has at least one VERY experienced DD. Thank you all for > doing this. > > Please keep people updated about your progress and especially the state > of the experimental packages, I have a test notebook that I don't mind > breaking occasionally, so I can do testing if the packages are in a > state when trying them makes sense. I guess other people might > be able to help with that as well. > > Greetings > Marc > > -- > > - > Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header > Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 > Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421 > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:41:30PM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote: > we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working on > updating Plasma in Debian. For now we are uploading 5.19(.4) to > Debian/experimental, but this needs a few iterations due to NEW > processing, but hopefully it will be all done soon. That is really really good news, thanks for the update! I am especially glad that things are going forward as a team effort and that the team has at least one VERY experienced DD. Thank you all for doing this. Please keep people updated about your progress and especially the state of the experimental packages, I have a test notebook that I don't mind breaking occasionally, so I can do testing if the packages are in a state when trying them makes sense. I guess other people might be able to help with that as well. Greetings Marc -- - Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Marc, we, that is Scarlett Moore and Patrick Franz and me, are working on updating Plasma in Debian. For now we are uploading 5.19(.4) to Debian/experimental, but this needs a few iterations due to NEW processing, but hopefully it will be all done soon. I think - but Scarlett please correct me - that after that an upload to unstable, probably of 5.19.5 will be imminent rather soon. 5.20 is still around the corner, but I am starting to work on it in my repositories, so that we can move to it in Debian/unstable quickly. So yes, things are moving, in particular to the collaborative attitude of Scarlett and their and Patrick's work. Let us hope that in future everything moves much more smoothly. Best Norbert On Fri, 18 Sep 2020, Marc Haber wrote: > Please don't break KDE and don't harm Debian. -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi, more than two months ago, Jeremy Potter asked a valid question. On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 05:08:48PM -0700, Jeremy Potter wrote: > Debian Sid is still on Plasma 5.17, meanwhile 5.18 LTS and 5.19 have > already been released with 5.20 around the corner. I searched the mailing > lists and it seems like this was discussed a few months ago and the KDE > development team were working on a patch, and Norbert Preining (who is > controversial for some reason?) had created a third-party repository with > Plasma 5.18. > > What is the status on this now? Is there anything I can do to help? I'm new > to Debian packaging but I've done packaging for another distro and I'm > willing to learn. This resulted in an, eh, exchange of polite and less than polite words, but not in an answer that "normal people" (and that includes me as a DD with nearly two decades of experience) would understand. Yes, Debian sid/testing is not a rolling release, but a monster like KDE Plasma will most probably need months to stabilize and migrate. If the repeated "is not a rolling release" means that people think that it would work to do one upload two weeks before the bullseye freeze, I violently disagree. KDE in Debian unstable hasn't seen an update in more than a year, we're two upstream releases behind. This is not only a pity for all those people using Debian unstable, it is also driving away people to Ubuntu or KDE Neon, therefore reducing testing personpower shuold new packages be uploaded to Debian at some time. Packaging bugs that happened on a system that probably has seen crossgrades from Debian unstable to some Ubuntu and back are going to be much harder to triage than if they were from a pure Debian unstable system. Frankly, I don't care about personal beefs here, I care about Debian and it's users. If there is a conflict, I urge all participants to take one big step back and re-evaluate what of a work base is still left there, and see what can be done to get KDE Plasma packaging in the future. From what I see, all sides to have some deficiencies in diplomacy of communication, but as responsible volunteers taking care of a HUGE software package, one of the MAJOR desktop environments in the world of Free Software, there is probably not much room for personal quarrels. Please consider making a list of things that need doing, with precise description of the work, possible more exact then "please write quality patches" or "don't break Debian". Packaging of KDE Plasma needs to speed itself up NOW, or Debian bullseye will either ship with a blatantly outdated version of KDE Plasma, or without KDE Plasma at all. Both those possibilities look less than attractive for the project. I have a somewhat difficult and abrasive personality myself, so I'll try to shut up in the discussion that might follow this e-mail, but I feel like somebody needed to put a gavel on the table and remind the people in charge not ony of their rights as package maintainers, but also of their responsibility as members of Debian and the Free Software Community. Please don't break KDE and don't harm Debian. Greetings Marc -- - Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany| lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Lucy My packages are built right there ;-) It is a great service. Best Norbert PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 Jul 28, 2020 20:17:21 Luc Castermans : > Just came across: https://build.opensuse.org/ > > The/a developper mentioned this to be a X-distro build system, so can/could > be used to create Debian packages. > > Could such service help, if appropriate, to create momentum? > > Luc > > Op zo 26 jul. 2020 om 22:51 schreef Shmerl > : > >> Om Tue, 07 Jul 2020 08:20:48 -0700 Scarlett Moore wrote: >> >>> Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work >> >>> and not just a changelog entry.. >> >>> Thanks, Scarlett >> >> Hi Scarlett! >> >> If I understand correctly, it's primarily you alone working now on updating >> Plasma packages >> >> in Debian unstable / testing? If so, thanks for your work! Did you manage to >> use Norbert's >> >> submissions after all? He said his merge requests are still available. >> >> It would be really great for KDE/Debian users if this could be resolved >> positively and in the >> >> manner that's productive and allows collaboration. This really needs to move >> forward, there >> >> are simply not enough resources not to share such efforts. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Shmerl. >>
Re: Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Just came across: https://build.opensuse.org/ The/a developper mentioned this to be a X-distro build system, so can/could be used to create Debian packages. Could such service help, if appropriate, to create momentum? Luc Op zo 26 jul. 2020 om 22:51 schreef Shmerl : > Om Tue, 07 Jul 2020 08:20:48 -0700 Scarlett Moore wrote: > > Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work > > and not just a changelog entry.. > > Thanks, Scarlett > > Hi Scarlett! > > If I understand correctly, it's primarily you alone working now on > updating Plasma packages > in Debian unstable / testing? If so, thanks for your work! Did you manage > to use Norbert's > submissions after all? He said his merge requests are still available. > > It would be really great for KDE/Debian users if this could be resolved > positively and in the > manner that's productive and allows collaboration. This really needs to > move forward, there > are simply not enough resources not to share such efforts. > > Best regards, > Shmerl. > > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 18:27:37 CEST, Hillel Lubman ha scritto: > Seriously, without anything constructive to contribute to the discussion, > such > comments aren't useful to anyone. This list shouldn't be a place for > flamewars. Seriously, avoid spilling petrol with your obviousness, then. -- Marco Valli
Re: Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:48:32 +0200 Marco Valli wrote: > but since Sid is not a rolling release the debian kde > team can avoid to works with m*r*ns. Seriously, without anything constructive to contribute to the discussion, such comments aren't useful to anyone. This list shouldn't be a place for flamewars. Debian unstable / testing are used as semi-rolling distros by a lot of users. So packages which are out of date means far from ideal situation. Lack of resources can cause it, but it's not a norm. Outdated Plasma is just another incentive for people not to use Debian, so it's surely something those who care about Debian should try to avoid. Shmerl.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Il 27/07/20 11:53, Marco Valli ha scritto: In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 10:19:41 CEST, luca.pedrielli ha scritto: Thanks Marco for another great comment. Lol, I have to assume you've never heard of the novacula Occami. regards Thanks twice. -- Saluti, Luca Pedrielli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 12:53:05 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > You are aware that you are scratching on the door of a CoC warning? Continue > calling other people morons and within short time this will be your last > post here. Take it easy, dude, the ml come and go... -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi! Marco Valli - 27.07.20, 12:48:32 CEST: > In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 12:06:45 CEST, Luc Castermans ha > scritto: > > Is there a simple explanation of the status of KDE in Debian? > > Scarcity of manpower, but since Sid is not a rolling release the > debian kde team can avoid to works with m*r*ns. Norbert *and* Marco, please stop. Ask yourself whether what you do here does anything to improve the situation. And if not, please stop. Thank you, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
You are aware that you are scratching on the door of a CoC warning? Continue calling other people morons and within short time this will be your last post here.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 12:06:45 CEST, Luc Castermans ha scritto: > Is there a simple explanation of the status of KDE in Debian? Scarcity of manpower, but since Sid is not a rolling release the debian kde team can avoid to works with m*r*ns. regards -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 12:35:23 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > Showing off pseudo-education, Showing off real-stupidity > how great. Do you think you are the only one > with a background in classical education? No. -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Showing off pseudo-education, how great. Do you think you are the only one with a background in classical education?
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
So now I learned about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor Is there a simple explanation of the status of KDE in Debian? Op ma 27 jul. 2020 om 11:54 schreef Marco Valli : > In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 10:22:06 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > > Lines up well with the rest of his comments! > > I don't like wasting words unnecessarily! > > -- > Marco Valli > > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 10:22:06 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > Lines up well with the rest of his comments! I don't like wasting words unnecessarily! -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 27 luglio 2020 10:19:41 CEST, luca.pedrielli ha scritto: > Thanks Marco for another great comment. Lol, I have to assume you've never heard of the novacula Occami. regards -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
> Thanks Marco for another great comment. Lines up well with the rest of his comments! Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Il 27/07/20 09:46, Marco Valli ha scritto: In data martedì 21 luglio 2020 21:03:15 CEST, hai scritto: I certainly use Sid as a rolling release, and many other people do the same. Many people would like to experience the reliability, maturity, and democratic governance of Debian while having updated packages, and sid offers that for them. In particular, KDE Plasma improves dramatically each release and I certainly can't stand using old versions of Plasma full of already-fixed bugs, and I expect other Plasma users feel the same. I also use sid but i don't break the balls to the guys of the debian kde team if it's not updated enough. regards Thanks Marco for another great comment. -- Saluti, Luca Pedrielli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data martedì 21 luglio 2020 21:03:15 CEST, hai scritto: > I certainly use Sid as a rolling release, and many other people do the > same. Many people would like to experience the reliability, maturity, and > democratic governance of Debian while having updated packages, and sid > offers that for them. In particular, KDE Plasma improves dramatically each > release and I certainly can't stand using old versions of Plasma full of > already-fixed bugs, and I expect other Plasma users feel the same. I also use sid but i don't break the balls to the guys of the debian kde team if it's not updated enough. regards -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Could I help ? Although I am just a humble non-Debian packager. Luc Op 26-07-2020 om 22:33 schreef Shmerl: Om Tue, 07 Jul 2020 08:20:48 -0700 Scarlett Moore wrote: > Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work > and not just a changelog entry.. > Thanks, Scarlett Hi Scarlett! If I understand correctly, it's primarily you alone working now on updating Plasma packages in Debian unstable / testing? If so, thanks for your work! Did you manage to use//Norbert's submissions after all? He said his merge requests are still available. It would be really great for KDE/Debian users if this could be resolved positively and in the manner that's productive and allows collaboration. This really needs to move forward, there are simply not enough resources not to share such efforts. Best regards, Shmerl. // -- m.vr.gr. Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Om Tue, 07 Jul 2020 08:20:48 -0700 Scarlett Moore wrote: > Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work > and not just a changelog entry.. > Thanks, Scarlett Hi Scarlett! If I understand correctly, it's primarily you alone working now on updating Plasma packages in Debian unstable / testing? If so, thanks for your work! Did you manage to use Norbert's submissions after all? He said his merge requests are still available. It would be really great for KDE/Debian users if this could be resolved positively and in the manner that's productive and allows collaboration. This really needs to move forward, there are simply not enough resources not to share such efforts. Best regards, Shmerl.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Pino, thanks for sharing your concerns. But can you elaborate somewhat more on a few things? Am Dienstag, 7. Juli 2020, 16:57:23 CEST schrieb Pino Toscano: [...] > It is definitely not nice to see that all the work & efforts in many > years are happily thrown down the loo by Why do you think that something is thrown away by Norbert (or anybody else) providing recent Debian packages for KDE? > - publicity stunts What are you referring to? For me Norbert's blog entries read reasonably neutral (?) or are you referring to other blogs? > - binary-only repos because "one person [not anymore working in the > team] said something bad to me, so it's all team fault" Are you referring to Norbert's repos? Picking a random one https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/ plasma519/Debian_Testing/ I find source packages in there. Not sure if apt-get can handle the directory structure though. > - blogs filled with untrue facts and on the borderline of insults Can you list the major facts which you consider untrue? > How does an "open mind" motivate you to work on this? I'll tell you: > it does not. > > Maybe a better solution would be to just give up with this -- after > all, users have the super-duper-and-excellent-quality repos, right? It seems you are insulted by Norbert (or anybody else) providing uptodate KDE releases and some users who have a need for new releases using them. For me it seems there are packages from the Debian KDE team which are high quality, but often somewhat outdated. Then there are Norbert's packages which are uptodate but likely(?) lower quality. It would be surprising if one person would be able to just provide better packages in all aspects. Unfortunately, at least so far, nobody had a solution which resulted in packages which were both high quality packages and contained very recent KDE releases. If that solution is found Norbert's packages are obsolete until then for me they seem to fill a gap. > Deepily unmotivated, Can you elaborate why you are demotivated by Norbert providing packages he compiled of latest KDE releases? How does it affect your packaging work? Thanks Rainer -- Rainer Dorsch http://bokomoko.de/
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On Tue, 07 Jul 2020, Scarlett Moore wrote: > amount of work needed. Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is > quality > work and not just a changelog entry.. You don't understand that "just a changelog entry" implies: - checking that no dependencies has changed - test building and installing and running the package If nothing else is needed, why is "just a changelog entry" bad? Functionality first please, not formalities. Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi all, Just a few comments to clarify my position. - I *always* provided sources for my changes, never binary only - It was not the comment on IRC that triggered my stepping back, but Sandro's "evaluation" of my merge requests as "sub-par", "expecting more from a DD of 20 years", etc ... See https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/2020-May/003050.html The "requirements" of the Debian Qt/KDE Team concerning merge requests and git commits and changelog entries are formal complications I tried to follow as much as possible, but I honestly will not do more than what I have done just for "formal reasons". If "quality merge requests" are about these IMNSHO partly ridiculous rules, then sorry for me not being able to produce them. But there is an easy way out: Anyone interested in helping out/contributing can easily: - get the sources (or the previous merge requests, they are still visible!) of my packages - create the git commits and changelog entries according to "the rules" - make "quality" merge requests Best Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In response to remarks in this thread, I like to add two remarks: "Open": is for me the openness of mind: listening to others opinions, remarks, etc. And carefully digestion these, balancing them, before responding to them. Secondly: I consider myself Debian-ist. Packages created outside the DFSG and not available from Debian servers are basically not okay for me. Therfore I see Norberts packages as a temporary way to get access to latest and greatest KDE packages, but at the same time I see them as an option to speed up creating compliant Debian packages. I´d expect code, methods, automation can be re-used from Norbert´s work to accomplish this. Disclaimer: I can be wrong on the latter. Regards, Luc Op 07-07-2020 om 16:19 schreef Martin Steigerwald: Hi. Luc Castermans - 07.07.20, 09:42:34 CEST: I have no objections to this proposal. At the same time I like to express my wish to find an opening to get out of the current situation. Just speaking for myself personally: I second this. Best, -- m.vr.gr. Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Status of Qt 6 (was: Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?)
Dear Marco, Marco Möller - 07.07.20, 19:28:52 CEST: > Looking also at the signature of your mail, I assume that you might > have some insights also on the general situation. I am wondering > about Qt itself moving to version 6 and having announced to change > the license conditions by which KDE have used Qt in the past but > appears to not be able to continue to use it in the future. Looking > forward to reading good news, would you know about how KDE.org is > planning to deal with this, is there a plan already? I suggest bringing this up in a different thread and not hijack this one for upstream related things. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear Scarlett, dear Norbert, dear community, Scarlett Moore - 07.07.20, 17:20:48 CEST: > I was not on this list, sorry. I have been working on plasma packages > and they are quite out of date. I am new to Debian process of mass > package updates, so I am slower than I care to admit, plus > limitations due to not being a DD. That being said, I do apologize > for delay. I do accept quality merge requests. I know I missed them There is no need to apologize. You are doing this in your free time and have no obligation. I thank you for your work. > when I started on this task and I apologized, but Norbert you have > since deleted all of them and refuse to undelete them. I suppose > making me look bad helps you? I am trying my best with the time I > have and amount of work needed. Again, help is gladly accepted as > long as it is quality work and not just a changelog entry.. Norbert, you retracted your merge requests… however, Scarlett is willing to consider quality merge requests… so I see an opportunity to work together, if you are willing to. Norbert, maybe if you work together with those of the Qt/KDE team who are willing to work with you, that is a start? Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On 07.07.20 17:20, Scarlett Moore wrote: On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:57:23 AM MST Pino Toscano wrote: In data martedì 7 luglio 2020 09:06:20 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: Hi Dietz, Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed repos, discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was told not to advertise my repositories. Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE packages for Debian here on the list share them? I do. I hope with an open minded and solution oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved "open minded" is not exactly the way somebody has been solving the problem of helping a team in Debian. It is definitely not nice to see that all the work & efforts in many years are happily thrown down the loo by - publicity stunts - binary-only repos because "one person [not anymore working in the team] said something bad to me, so it's all team fault" - blogs filled with untrue facts and on the borderline of insults How does an "open mind" motivate you to work on this? I'll tell you: it does not. Maybe a better solution would be to just give up with this -- after all, users have the super-duper-and-excellent-quality repos, right? Deepily unmotivated, Hi all. I was not on this list, sorry. I have been working on plasma packages and they are quite out of date. I am new to Debian process of mass package updates, so I am slower than I care to admit, plus limitations due to not being a DD. That being said, I do apologize for delay. I do accept quality merge requests. I know I missed them when I started on this task and I apologized, but Norbert you have since deleted all of them and refuse to undelete them. I suppose making me look bad helps you? I am trying my best with the time I have and amount of work needed. Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work and not just a changelog entry.. Thanks, Scarlett Looking also at the signature of your mail, I assume that you might have some insights also on the general situation. I am wondering about Qt itself moving to version 6 and having announced to change the license conditions by which KDE have used Qt in the past but appears to not be able to continue to use it in the future. Looking forward to reading good news, would you know about how KDE.org is planning to deal with this, is there a plan already? Marco
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear Pino. Pino Toscano - 07.07.20, 16:57:23 CEST: > In data martedì 7 luglio 2020 09:06:20 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: > > Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > > > Hi Dietz, > > > > > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side > > > > (changed repos, discontinued development and so on) also oh > > > > debian-kde? > > > > > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel > > > I was told not to advertise my repositories. > > > > Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with > > announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE > > packages for Debian here on the list share them? > > I do. Thank you for sharing your objection. > > I hope with an open minded and solution > > oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved > > "open minded" is not exactly the way somebody has been solving the > problem of helping a team in Debian. I do not like the wording of this sentence. How you speak about Norbert as "somebody". > It is definitely not nice to see that all the work & efforts in many > years are happily thrown down the loo by > - publicity stunts > - binary-only repos because "one person [not anymore working in the > team] said something bad to me, so it's all team fault" > - blogs filled with untrue facts and on the borderline of insults I don't know what to do with this. I have heard two contradicting point of views and do not bring them together. And some blaming of each other. Unfortunately I have never seen that blaming someone else solved any issue. And I see that someone offered to help but it did not work out. Due to what exactly is still unclear to me but it seems that there have been disagreements in how to work on the packages. > Deepily unmotivated, I am sad to read this. I appreciate all the quality work you have done on KDE applications / release service and other packages. Thank you. At the same time I appreciate that Norbert works on providing more up to date packages for Plasma and KDE Frameworks (I think applications are mostly the same versions currently). I see everyone wanting to help in their way, just it seems somehow it does not go together. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:57:23 AM MST Pino Toscano wrote: > In data martedì 7 luglio 2020 09:06:20 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: > > Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > > > Hi Dietz, > > > > > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed > > > > repos, > > > > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? > > > > > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was > > > told not to advertise my repositories. > > > > Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with > > announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE packages for > > Debian here on the list share them? > > I do. > > > I hope with an open minded and solution > > oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved > > "open minded" is not exactly the way somebody has been solving the > problem of helping a team in Debian. > > It is definitely not nice to see that all the work & efforts in many > years are happily thrown down the loo by > - publicity stunts > - binary-only repos because "one person [not anymore working in the > team] said something bad to me, so it's all team fault" > - blogs filled with untrue facts and on the borderline of insults > > How does an "open mind" motivate you to work on this? I'll tell you: > it does not. > > Maybe a better solution would be to just give up with this -- after > all, users have the super-duper-and-excellent-quality repos, right? > > Deepily unmotivated, Hi all. I was not on this list, sorry. I have been working on plasma packages and they are quite out of date. I am new to Debian process of mass package updates, so I am slower than I care to admit, plus limitations due to not being a DD. That being said, I do apologize for delay. I do accept quality merge requests. I know I missed them when I started on this task and I apologized, but Norbert you have since deleted all of them and refuse to undelete them. I suppose making me look bad helps you? I am trying my best with the time I have and amount of work needed. Again, help is gladly accepted as long as it is quality work and not just a changelog entry.. Thanks, Scarlett -- Scarlett Moore gpg: 7C35 920F 1CE2 899E 8EA9 AAD0 2E7C 0367 B9BF A089 Software Engineer @ Blue Systems Debian Maintainer developer in training. Netrunner PM KDE Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data martedì 7 luglio 2020 09:06:20 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: > Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > > Hi Dietz, > > > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed repos, > > > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? > > > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was > > told not to advertise my repositories. > > > > Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with > announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE packages for > Debian here on the list share them? I do. > I hope with an open minded and solution > oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved "open minded" is not exactly the way somebody has been solving the problem of helping a team in Debian. It is definitely not nice to see that all the work & efforts in many years are happily thrown down the loo by - publicity stunts - binary-only repos because "one person [not anymore working in the team] said something bad to me, so it's all team fault" - blogs filled with untrue facts and on the borderline of insults How does an "open mind" motivate you to work on this? I'll tell you: it does not. Maybe a better solution would be to just give up with this -- after all, users have the super-duper-and-excellent-quality repos, right? Deepily unmotivated, -- Pino Toscano signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi. Luc Castermans - 07.07.20, 09:42:34 CEST: > I have no objections to this proposal. > At the same time I like to express my wish to find an opening to get > out of the current situation. Just speaking for myself personally: I second this. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > Hi Dietz, > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed repos, > > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was > told not to advertise my repositories. > Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE packages for Debian here on the list share them? I hope with an open minded and solution oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved Thanks Rainer -- Rainer Dorsch http://bokomoko.de/
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear I have no objections to this proposal. At the same time I like to express my wish to find an opening to get out of the current situation. Regards, Luc Op di 7 jul. 2020 om 09:06 schreef Rainer Dorsch : > Am Sonntag, 5. Juli 2020, 15:48:55 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > > Hi Dietz, > > > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed > repos, > > > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? > > > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was > > told not to advertise my repositories. > > > > Since this is already speculation, can anybody who has concerns with > announcements or user reports of Norbert's super uptodate KDE packages for > Debian here on the list share them? I hope with an open minded and > solution > oriented discussion they can be addressed and resolved > > Thanks > Rainer > > -- > Rainer Dorsch > http://bokomoko.de/ > > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi, I am slowly learning Debian packaging myself. Also I tried to compile KDE myself, while this is not 100% successful it learned my how big KDE is. >From the discussions in this thread, once I asked the question also, it became clear to me that having a small team on one end and a huge amount of packages on the other side will lead to long throughput times in bringing upstream changes to Debian packages. Automation and working together are key-words, (the only?) in shortening the throughput times. I do not know what led to the frictions in the past. But make a plea to look forward, grab help and focus on achieving shorter throughput times in bringing KDE changes to Debian. Let me know if/how I can help. Regards Luc Op zo 5 jul. 2020 om 15:49 schreef Norbert Preining : > Hi Dietz, > > > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed > repos, > > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? > > I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was > told not to advertise my repositories. > > I suggest you to follow my blog, tag "KDE" to receive updates. > > Thanks > > Norbert > > -- > PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info > Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev > GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Dietz, > Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed repos, > discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? I don't think this is welcome here, since also on the IRC channel I was told not to advertise my repositories. I suggest you to follow my blog, tag "KDE" to receive updates. Thanks Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Norbert, and I have to confess - looks like a really, really decent piece of work you did. Quite a pity, that there seem to be differences on using what you have been producing. Would you mind announcing relevant changes from your side (changed repos, discontinued development and so on) also oh debian-kde? Kindest regards, Dietz Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2020, 10:14:21 CEST schrieb Norbert Preining: > Hi Jeremy, > > It is now 5.19.2 (and frameworks 5.71), see here > https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/kde-plasma-5-19-2-for-debian/ > thanks to the upload of Qt 5.14 to unstable. > > Feel free to try it out but report bugs to me and **not** the Debian BTS. > > And don't break Debian :-D > > Best > > Norbert signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data mercoledì 1 luglio 2020 22:03:53 CEST, Shmerl ha scritto: > I still don't understand > why is Plasma still outdated in Debian testing / unstable. Maybe because Debian unstable is *not* a rolling release but a development version? regards -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
hi Shmerl When I asked similar a while ago my conclusion was the amount of work, hundreds of packages, on one side and the amount of packagers on the other side. And of course disagreements in this case make the effective packaging capacity even smaller. Luc Op 01-07-2020 om 22:03 schreef Shmerl: > Debian Sid is still on Plasma 5.17, meanwhile 5.18 LTS and 5.19 have already > been released with 5.20 around the corner > ... > What is the status on this now? Did you actually find the answer to your question? From this whole thread, I still don't understand why is Plasma still outdated in Debian testing / unstable. All I got was that there was some disagreement and packaging help was rejected. But that doesn't explain what the disagreement was and why Plasma wasn't updated in such a long time either way. There must be some blockers or issues obviously that prevent it. Can anyone please elaborate on it for the benefit of those who are reading it? Thanks! Shmerl. -- m.vr.gr. Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
> Debian Sid is still on Plasma 5.17, meanwhile 5.18 LTS and 5.19 have already > been released with 5.20 around the corner > ... > What is the status on this now? Did you actually find the answer to your question? From this whole thread, I still don't understand why is Plasma still outdated in Debian testing / unstable. All I got was that there was some disagreement and packaging help was rejected. But that doesn't explain what the disagreement was and why Plasma wasn't updated in such a long time either way. There must be some blockers or issues obviously that prevent it. Can anyone please elaborate on it for the benefit of those who are reading it? Thanks! Shmerl.
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Marco, On Montag, 29. Juni 2020 13:30:31 CEST Marco Valli wrote: > In data lunedì 29 giugno 2020 13:12:28 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > > Another great contribution that lines up perfectly with the rest! > > "I remain politely silent about your comments" > > https://imgflip.com/i/12zl00 May I suggest you stick to constructive forms of communication? Yes, Norbert could have answered your assertion that Christian Marillat is no longer remembered or no longer active in Debian in a more verbose form. Yet, what was your contribution to the debate when you sent "facepalm", twice? Cheers, Johannes
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Yes, a verbal meeting would be good, Jitsi is fine I guess. I sense that all subscribe to the need to "get KDE updates as fast as possible into Debian" . So the starting point is excellent! Let's discuss if this is correct during the meeting and depending on how that goes poll about ways forward. Normally I would offer you coffee, but this remains virtual for the moment, :=). Luc Op ma 29 jun. 2020 om 14:23 schreef Martin Steigerwald : > Hi Luc. > > Luc Castermans - 29.06.20, 13:52:39 CEST: > > Are we past the point of no return or is there an option to go to > > square one and restart? What would be needed to do so? > > I have no idea. Actually I do not really understand the conflict. > > However… > > > At the same time I note that email is a bad medium for this type of > > interaction, sorry for using this medium I am not aware of another > > one. > > I am willing to offer moderation to find a solution in case both parties > would like to have a go at finding one. We could find a Jitsi or > BigBlueButton instance to do this. I know several instances that could > be used. > > Disclaimer: I worked with Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team, on some bug > triaging or regarding providing information here. And I have no > intention to change that at the moment. So I may be biased and gladly > let a less likely to be biased person offer to do the job. That written, > I learned a lot about ways to communicate that can help to find > resolutions to conflicts and allow everyone to feel accepted as a person. > > Best, > -- > Martin > > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On maandag 29 juni 2020 14:15:41 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Sander van Grieken - 29.06.20, 13:23:41 CEST: > > On zondag 28 juni 2020 12:53:15 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > > Dear Marco, dear Qt/KDE team, dear Norberg, dear community, > > > > > > Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 11:12:03 CEST: > > > > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very > > > > experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no > > > > longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. > > > > > > I am not sure whether it makes sense to discuss this out to the end… > > > > Well I'm afraid this topic will keep coming back occasionally until it > > is resolved in one way or the other. > > It is not on me to moderate anything here and… as I wrote I am not sure > what the best approach to proceed would be. I know, I was not addressing you specifically, it was more a general observation for the ML as a whole. I do really appreciate your offer (in your other email) for moderation, and I hope al parties seriously consider this! -- Sander
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Luc. Luc Castermans - 29.06.20, 13:52:39 CEST: > Are we past the point of no return or is there an option to go to > square one and restart? What would be needed to do so? I have no idea. Actually I do not really understand the conflict. However… > At the same time I note that email is a bad medium for this type of > interaction, sorry for using this medium I am not aware of another > one. I am willing to offer moderation to find a solution in case both parties would like to have a go at finding one. We could find a Jitsi or BigBlueButton instance to do this. I know several instances that could be used. Disclaimer: I worked with Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team, on some bug triaging or regarding providing information here. And I have no intention to change that at the moment. So I may be biased and gladly let a less likely to be biased person offer to do the job. That written, I learned a lot about ways to communicate that can help to find resolutions to conflicts and allow everyone to feel accepted as a person. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Sander van Grieken - 29.06.20, 13:23:41 CEST: > On zondag 28 juni 2020 12:53:15 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Dear Marco, dear Qt/KDE team, dear Norberg, dear community, > > > > Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 11:12:03 CEST: > > > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very > > > experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no > > > longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. > > > > I am not sure whether it makes sense to discuss this out to the end… > > Well I'm afraid this topic will keep coming back occasionally until it > is resolved in one way or the other. It is not on me to moderate anything here and… as I wrote I am not sure what the best approach to proceed would be. > > I really would have preferred for Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team to work > > together. But if that isn't the case that also is how it is. And it > > is important to accept that. That does not make anyone who is > > involved right or wrong either. It is just different approaches. > > None of them inherently better or worse than the other. > > Personally, I find this situation hard to accept. The maintainer team > is not just a collection of individuals, it's a body that is a > gatekeeper of the K/Qt stack into Debian. This gatekeeper role > doesn't just give its members significant power, it also assigns to > the team a responsibility to keep enabling contributions and > improvements to reach the user. I get that. For me first accepting a situation as it is can open up a path way to change it. > No process can be made totally free of friction. But it is a matter of > maturity how friction is handled Right. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi, Right Sander: Knowing nothing about the history of the frictions but knowing the needs and acknowledging each other's skills I regret to read the thread. Are we past the point of no return or is there an option to go to square one and restart? What would be needed to do so? At the same time I note that email is a bad medium for this type of interaction, sorry for using this medium I am not aware of another one. Regards Luc Op ma 29 jun. 2020 om 13:30 schreef Sander van Grieken < san...@outrightsolutions.nl>: > On zondag 28 juni 2020 12:53:15 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > Dear Marco, dear Qt/KDE team, dear Norberg, dear community, > > > > Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 11:12:03 CEST: > > > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very > > > experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no > > > longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. > > > > I am not sure whether it makes sense to discuss this out to the end… > > Well I'm afraid this topic will keep coming back occasionally until it is > resolved in one way or the other. > > > I really would have preferred for Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team to work > > together. But if that isn't the case that also is how it is. And it is > > important to accept that. That does not make anyone who is involved > > right or wrong either. It is just different approaches. None of them > > inherently better or worse than the other. > > Personally, I find this situation hard to accept. The maintainer team is > not just a collection of individuals, it's a body that is a gatekeeper of > the K/Qt stack into Debian. This gatekeeper role doesn't just give its > members significant power, it also assigns to the team a responsibility to > keep enabling contributions and improvements to reach the user. > > No process can be made totally free of friction. But it is a matter of > maturity how friction is handled. > > -- > Sander > > > > -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On zondag 28 juni 2020 12:53:15 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Dear Marco, dear Qt/KDE team, dear Norberg, dear community, > > Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 11:12:03 CEST: > > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very > > experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no > > longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. > > I am not sure whether it makes sense to discuss this out to the end… Well I'm afraid this topic will keep coming back occasionally until it is resolved in one way or the other. > I really would have preferred for Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team to work > together. But if that isn't the case that also is how it is. And it is > important to accept that. That does not make anyone who is involved > right or wrong either. It is just different approaches. None of them > inherently better or worse than the other. Personally, I find this situation hard to accept. The maintainer team is not just a collection of individuals, it's a body that is a gatekeeper of the K/Qt stack into Debian. This gatekeeper role doesn't just give its members significant power, it also assigns to the team a responsibility to keep enabling contributions and improvements to reach the user. No process can be made totally free of friction. But it is a matter of maturity how friction is handled. -- Sander
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 29 giugno 2020 13:12:28 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > Another great contribution that lines up perfectly with the rest! "I remain politely silent about your comments" https://imgflip.com/i/12zl00 -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Another great contribution that lines up perfectly with the rest!
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data lunedì 29 giugno 2020 00:39:34 CEST, Norbert Preining ha scritto: > Looking at contributors.debian.org, I remain politely silent about your > comments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facepalm -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020, Marco Valli wrote: > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very experienced DD"? > No? well, even preining in a few years will no longer remember by anyone. > Debian yes. Looking at contributors.debian.org, I remain politely silent about your comments. Norbert -- PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Jeremy, there is good news, Norbert's continues to provide KDE packages e.g. for 5.19.2 , see https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/kde-plasma-5-19-2-for-debian/ Be aware I have not used them, all my desktop systems are on stable and as I try to avoid to have third party repos as much as possible for reasons for trust and stability. I am not sure which topic of https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian Marco is referring to, I am sure he understands that Norbert's packages are built and meant for Debian sid/bullseye, so none of the criteria for FrankenDebian applies: > Repositories that can create a FrankenDebian if used with Debian Stable: > - Debian testing release (currently bullseye) > - Debian unstable release (also known as sid) > - Ubuntu, Mint or other derivative repositories are not compatible with Debian! > - Ubuntu PPAs Norbert is a very experienced DD. I would not be too worried of breaking Debian with Norbert's packages as long as you follow Norbert's blog https://www.preining.info/blog/ and remember you are on testing or unstable anyways, if you use his packages. I am glad that he closes the gap that there is usually a delay between KDE releases and official Debian packages for them. I consider his packages as value add, since I am sure there are Debian users which need a recent KDE release (and if it is just to do a quick test in a VM for bugs fixed, new features,) @Marco: Do you have any evidence that anybody broke his system, because he used Norbert's builds? Thanks Rainer Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2020, 09:03:53 CEST schrieb Marco Valli: > In data domenica 28 giugno 2020 02:08:48 CEST, Jeremy Potter ha scritto: > > Norbert Preining (who is > > controversial for some reason?) had created a third-party repository with > > Plasma 5.18. > > https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/waste-of-resources-bye-bye-debian-kde > -team/ > > ps don't break Debian! > https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian > > regards -- Rainer Dorsch http://bokomoko.de/
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
On 28.06.20 02:08, Jeremy Potter wrote: Hello everyone, Debian Sid is still on Plasma 5.17, meanwhile 5.18 LTS and 5.19 have already been released with 5.20 around the corner. I searched the mailing lists and it seems like this was discussed a few months ago and the KDE development team were working on a patch, and Norbert Preining (who is controversial for some reason?) had created a third-party repository with Plasma 5.18. What is the status on this now? Is there anything I can do to help? I'm new to Debian packaging but I've done packaging for another distro and I'm willing to learn. Thank you, Jeremy (@jwinnie) Hopefully this can be solved! KDE Plasma no more being up-to-date in Debian/testing, not even in Debian/unstable, and also Qt itself moving to version 6 and having announced to change the license conditions by which KDE have used Qt in the past but appears to not be able to continue to use it in the future, all this together really invites for a public statement on the topic by the KDE developers and Debian maintainers of KDE packages. I assume that there are many worried KDE and Debian/KDE users around, and we are all looking forward to reading good news! Marco Möller PS: Like-minded with Jeremy, who nicely offered to become involved in the project, I am motivated to do the same. I never packaged anything, and my programing skills are humble, but I am open to receive mentoring and am willing to get into it!
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear Marco, dear Qt/KDE team, dear Norberg, dear community, Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 11:12:03 CEST: > In data domenica 28 giugno 2020 10:18:03 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: > > Norbert's packages are built and > > meant for Debian sid/bullseye, so none of the criteria for > > FrankenDebian > > applies: > Those are just *exempla*. > Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very > experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no > longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. I am not sure whether it makes sense to discuss this out to the end… In the end we know both positions now and users can make an informed choice themselves. But: Users who use Norbert's packages, please do not report to the Debian bug tracker. Also this user support mailing list is hosted by the Debian project and I think it is important to consider that. So if you use Norbert packages please use whatever support channels he offers, for example the comment function on his blog. In addition with KDE mailing lists or forums for general questions. And also if you report a bug to KDE upstream bug tracker, clearly mention that you are using his packages. I admit I am tempted to try out his packages as well… but for now I keep my system as it is. I used Marillat's packages which worked okay most of the time but I also had some issues, mostly related to dependencies here and there. And I think there is a risk of dependency related issues when combining packages from the official Debian repositories with any other source. Regardless of the skills of the developer who provides the packages. With binary based distributions it seems to be very challenging to get this right. So I agree that much with: Don't break Debian. Adding: But if you do, you get to keep the pieces. And if you do, please do not bother this list or the Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team with that in any way. I really would have preferred for Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE team to work together. But if that isn't the case that also is how it is. And it is important to accept that. That does not make anyone who is involved right or wrong either. It is just different approaches. None of them inherently better or worse than the other. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Dear Norbert, dear Qt/KDE team of Debian/Kubuntu, dear users, dear community. Marco Valli - 28.06.20, 09:03:53 CEST: > In data domenica 28 giugno 2020 02:08:48 CEST, Jeremy Potter ha scritto: > > Norbert Preining (who is > > controversial for some reason?) had created a third-party repository > > with Plasma 5.18. > > https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/waste-of-resources-bye-bye-debi > an-kde-team/ I felt sad after I read this. I bet the story of those members of the Qt/KDE team, you are talking about, is a different one than yours, Norbert. I accept that you did not get along well with one another, although I do not understand why. It may not be on topic on the users mailing list to discuss this. But let me just add one thing: It appears to me that it is good to agree to disagree with one another and let go of blaming each other. Best, -- Martin
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data domenica 28 giugno 2020 10:18:03 CEST, Rainer Dorsch ha scritto: > Norbert's packages are built and > meant for Debian sid/bullseye, so none of the criteria for FrankenDebian > applies: Those are just *exempla*. Do you remember debian multimedia of Marillat, another "very experienced DD"? No? well, even preining in a few years will no longer remember by anyone. Debian yes. > @Marco: > Do you have any evidence that anybody broke his system, because he used > Norbert's builds? I don't need to jump from a bridge to know that maybe I'll hurt myself. Read Das Prinzip Verantwortung of Hans Jonas: it can have applications also in more particular areas. regards -- Marco Valli
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
Hi Jeremy, It is now 5.19.2 (and frameworks 5.71), see here https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/kde-plasma-5-19-2-for-debian/ thanks to the upload of Qt 5.14 to unstable. Feel free to try it out but report bugs to me and **not** the Debian BTS. And don't break Debian :-D Best Norbert PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 Jun 28, 2020 09:27:16 Jeremy Potter : > Hello everyone, > > Debian Sid is still on Plasma 5.17, meanwhile 5.18 LTS and 5.19 have already > been released with 5.20 around the corner. I searched the mailing lists and > it seems like this was discussed a few months ago and the KDE development > team were working on a patch, and Norbert Preining (who is controversial for > some reason?) had created a third-party repository with Plasma 5.18. > > What is the status on this now? Is there anything I can do to help? I'm new > to Debian packaging but I've done packaging for another distro and I'm > willing to learn. > > Thank you, > > Jeremy (@jwinnie) >
Re: Status of Plasma 5.18/5.19?
In data domenica 28 giugno 2020 02:08:48 CEST, Jeremy Potter ha scritto: > Norbert Preining (who is > controversial for some reason?) had created a third-party repository with > Plasma 5.18. https://www.preining.info/blog/2020/06/waste-of-resources-bye-bye-debian-kde-team/ ps don't break Debian! https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian regards -- Marco Valli
