Re: i386 executables on amd64?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 22:10:11 Mario Castelán Castro wrote:

> On 2017-08-19 18:01 -0700 cono...@rahul.net (John Conover) wrote:
> >Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
> >amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)
> >
> >Is this to be expected?
>
> x86-64 CPU can run IA32 programs, even when using a OS (having
> explicit support for this, of course, and GNU/Linux does), so it's not
> unexpected at this point.
>
> What surprised me is that you did not report dependency problems
> with libraries running such an old software. I would have expected
> that your old program would require library versions no longer
> available in Debian.
>
> Regards.

The singular problem I have, in running linuxcnc on an armhf with a 
jessie install, is that in a data entry box of the axis interface, 
called the MDI, where single command lines of gcode can be entered and 
executed, on all the wheezy ia86-64 machines, I can run the cursor back 
and forth with the left-right arrow keys and edit the next command 
easily.  On the armhf/jessie install on an rpi3b, the arrow keys do not 
work, so the mouse must be used very precisely to position the cursor 
for an edit.  Its a small, 1 line box about 25 characters long. When the 
mouse is running in swarf (metal shavings) up to its ankle bones, making 
a smooth move that precisely is, shall we say pickity and time 
consuming?

But get this, when I reported this problem to our developers mailing 
list, my 5 x86-64 machines that can do that, and have been doing it for 
a decade plus, are apparently the only 5 machines on the planet that can 
do it!  It does not work on any of the developers own machines, and 
never has.

The up-down arrows to scroll thru the history and call it back into the 
MDI box to re-execute it work perfectly.

Go figure that one out.  I'm running out of hair, and ways to mutter 
wth... :)

The rpi3b may get replaced with a rock64 before too long, it claims it 
hasn't the i/o bottleneck the rpi's have, and which cause dropped 
key/mouse events. Thats very dangerous around machinery with the power 
to maim or kill.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Debian live installer problems

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 08/19/2017 08:49 PM, Arjun Krishnan wrote:

Hi

I've been trying to get a debian installer working on my usb stick. The
stick has an EFI partition



I dont know where this bug should be filed, since I cannot file it against
a package. So I thought i'd ask here. I'm happy to file a bug and leave it
at that. In any case I debootstrap when I usually install things.

Arjun



Probably here: linux.debian.devel.cd

As for your install I would recommend you using the non-free net-install 
iso, with it you will get the option to install a desktop and servers too.


The DVD installs have many bugs filed against them and maybe fixed with 
the next release.


cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson

Ubuntu 14.04 LTS - KDE 4.13.3 - Intel G3220 - EXT4 at sda1
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: i386 executables on amd64?

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 2017-08-19 18:01 -0700 cono...@rahul.net (John Conover) wrote:
>Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
>amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)
>
>Is this to be expected?

x86-64 CPU can run IA32 programs, even when using a OS (having explicit
support for this, of course, and GNU/Linux does), so it's not unexpected
at this point.

What surprised me is that you did not report dependency problems
with libraries running such an old software. I would have expected that
your old program would require library versions no longer available in
Debian.

Regards.



pgp8ElL8qRxi9.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Debian live installer problems

[Arjun Krishnan]

Hi

I've been trying to get a debian installer working on my usb stick. The
stick has an EFI partition
and grub installed. The debian live cd iso is stored under a folder called
`/boot/iso`. The grub.cfg contains entries of the form

set imgdevpath='/dev/disk/by-uuid/'
menuentry '[loopback]debian stretch 9.1 livecd' {
 set
isofile='/boot/iso/debian-live-9.1.0-amd64-cinnamon+nonfree.iso'
 loopback loop $isofile
 linux (loop)/live/vmlinuz-4.9.0-3-amd64 boot=live components
findiso=${imgdevpath}/${isofile}
 initrd (loop)/live/initrd.img-4.9.0-3-amd64
}

   menuentry "Debian livecd 9.1 graphical installer" {
set isofile='/boot/iso/debian-live-9.1.0-amd64-cinnamon+nonfree.iso'
loopback loop $isofile
linux  (loop)/d-i/gtk/vmlinuz append video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr vga=788
"findiso=${imgdevpath}/${isofile}"
initrd (loop)/d-i/gtk/initrd.gz
   }

Once I get to the boot screen and try to run the graphical installer, it
fails after loading the kernel. But the live cd does boot. However, the
live cd that I booted above (cinnamon+nonfree) does not have a way to run
the debian installer after it has booted.

I tried apt install debian-installer, but it gives the following error.

$ sudo apt install debian-installer-launcher
$ sudo debian-installer-launcher
no suitable d-i initrd image found, aborting
umount /lib/live/installer: mountpoint not found

I dont know where this bug should be filed, since I cannot file it against
a package. So I thought i'd ask here. I'm happy to file a bug and leave it
at that. In any case I debootstrap when I usually install things.

Arjun

Re: What tool can I use to make efficient incremental backups?

[Celejar]

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:47:34 -0500
Mario Castelán Castro  wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> Currently I use rsync to make the backups of my personal data, including
> some manually selected important files of system configuration. I keep
> old backups to be more safe from the scenario where I have deleted
> something important, I make a backup, and I only notice the deletion
> afterwards.
> 
> Each backup snapshot is stored in its own directory. There is much
> redundancy between subsequent backups. I use the option "--link-dest" to
> make hard links and thus save space for files that are *identical* to an
> already-existing file in the backup repository. but this is still
> inefficient. Any change to a file, even to its metadata (permission,
> modification time, etc.), will result in the file being saved at whole,
> instead of a delta.
> 
> Can you suggest a more efficient alternative?

There's Borg, which apparently has good deduplication. I've just
started using it, but it's a very sophisticated and quite popular piece
of software, judging by chatter in various internet threads.

https://borgbackup.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

Celejar

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Esteban Monge]

Bueno si deseas seguir con del root ejecuta manualmente cada comando a ver que 
errores te da.

Systemd es una maravilla y permite.ejecutar programas al 
inició.del.sistema.como.usuario.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/User

Como.siempre el wiki de Arch es una maravilla...

On August 19, 2017 8:57:13 PM CST, Edwin De La Cruz  
wrote:
>El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 19:04, Esteban Monge
> escribió:
>> El 2017-08-19 09:42, AlexLikeRock escribió:
 Saludos cordiales a todos.
 Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y
>es acerca de gvfs-mount.

 Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo
>uso como usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no
>me permite montarlo.

 Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.


>http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/

 He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
 De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero
>montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me
>sirve.

 Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo
>agradeceria mucho.

>>>
>>>
>>> la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
>>>
>>> yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es
>peligroso,
>>>
>>>  y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
>>>
>>>
>>>  platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>>
>>
>> Hola puedes revisar lo siguiente:
>>
>> Archivo /etc/fuse.conf utilizar la opcion:
>> user_allow_other
>>
>> Cuando vaya a usar el gvfs como root use la opción -o allow_root
>> gvfs-mount -o allow_root blablabla
>>
>> Avisanos como te va... la verdad sería conveniente que simplemente no
>> uses root para tareas o scripts.
>>
>
>Hice los cambios sugerido pero no obtuve resultados positivos.
>Recibo este mensaje:
>
>Error creating proxy: La conexión está cerrada (g-io-error-quark, 18)
>
>Cuando corro los script en cron o como servicio de hecho no lo hago
>como root, simplemente cuando se ejecutan lo hacen automaticamente
>como root.
>
>Para el que corre como servicio lo pongo en "/etc/systemd/system" y
>cuando inicia lo hace automáticamente como root.
>No se si hay alguna forma de cambiar este comportamiento.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Edwin De La Cruz]

El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 19:04, Esteban Monge
 escribió:
> El 2017-08-19 09:42, AlexLikeRock escribió:
>>> Saludos cordiales a todos.
>>> Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es 
>>> acerca de gvfs-mount.
>>>
>>> Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso como 
>>> usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me permite 
>>> montarlo.
>>>
>>> Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/
>>>
>>> He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
>>> De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero montando 
>>> un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me sirve.
>>>
>>> Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria 
>>> mucho.
>>>
>>
>>
>> la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
>>
>> yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
>>
>>
>> hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es 
>> peligroso,
>>
>>  y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
>>
>>
>>  platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>
>
> Hola puedes revisar lo siguiente:
>
> Archivo /etc/fuse.conf utilizar la opcion:
> user_allow_other
>
> Cuando vaya a usar el gvfs como root use la opción -o allow_root
> gvfs-mount -o allow_root blablabla
>
> Avisanos como te va... la verdad sería conveniente que simplemente no
> uses root para tareas o scripts.
>

Hice los cambios sugerido pero no obtuve resultados positivos.
Recibo este mensaje:

Error creating proxy: La conexión está cerrada (g-io-error-quark, 18)

Cuando corro los script en cron o como servicio de hecho no lo hago
como root, simplemente cuando se ejecutan lo hacen automaticamente
como root.

Para el que corre como servicio lo pongo en "/etc/systemd/system" y
cuando inicia lo hace automáticamente como root.
No se si hay alguna forma de cambiar este comportamiento.

Re: i386 executables on amd64?

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 21:01:03 John Conover wrote:

> I inherited a project to install a pile of C code, compiled and
> running on Debian Wheezy i386 machine, to a Debian jessie amd64
> machine.
>
> Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
> amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)
>
> Is this to be expected?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John

The exception that doesn't is the exception.  This machine has one of 
amd's early quad core slow phenoms in it, running an i386 install for 
reasons of latency figures better than the 64 bit stuff can do.  I have 
a piece or 7 of 64 bit code installed, but it hasn't complained in any 
way I've noticed running 32 bit executables.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

i386 executables on amd64?

[John Conover]

I inherited a project to install a pile of C code, compiled and
running on Debian Wheezy i386 machine, to a Debian jessie amd64
machine.

Astonishingly, most of the Wheezy i386 executables run on the Jessie
amd64 machine, (which came with the project.)

Is this to be expected?

Thanks,

John

-- 

John Conover, cono...@rahul.net, http://www.johncon.com/

Re: No ifconfig

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2017-08-19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Saturday 19 August 2017 04:15:42 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
>
>> Glenn English:
>> > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others,
>> > and having everything broken now is a major PITA.
>> >
>> > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess,
>> > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined
>> > to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return
>> > gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written.
>>
> +10
>
>> That is, in fact, what the BSD people did.  On FreeBSD and OpenBSD,
>> for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability,
>> with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen,
>> auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled.
>
> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish 
> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want 
> to do with a computer?

Please feel free to port those improvements. If you are unable or
unwilling to do that, you will need to persuade or pay someone else to
do it for you.

-- 

Liam

Re: No ifconfig

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2017-08-19, Brian  wrote:

(...)

> network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into
> making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a
> lack of any deep understanding of how the software works.

s/infers/implies

Other than that, +1

-- 

Liam

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Esteban Monge]

El 2017-08-19 09:42, AlexLikeRock escribió:
>> Saludos cordiales a todos.
>> Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es acerca 
>> de gvfs-mount.
>>
>> Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso como 
>> usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me permite 
>> montarlo.
>>
>> Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.
>>
>> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/
>>
>> He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
>> De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero montando 
>> un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me sirve.
>>
>> Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria mucho.
>>
> 
> 
> la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
> 
> yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
> 
> 
> hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es 
> peligroso,
> 
>  y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
> 
> 
>  platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?


Hola puedes revisar lo siguiente:

Archivo /etc/fuse.conf utilizar la opcion:
user_allow_other

Cuando vaya a usar el gvfs como root use la opción -o allow_root
gvfs-mount -o allow_root blablabla

Avisanos como te va... la verdad sería conveniente que simplemente no
uses root para tareas o scripts.

Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[RavenLX]

On 08/19/2017 03:40 PM, Osamu Aoki wrote:

Hi,


On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:

...


I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
"development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.


The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to do a
task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. Python taking
one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and it gets confusing.


You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
development.


Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but not
that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient with Perl,
am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have much to share
(right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. Most of my stuff
is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff (though I could share my
code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into a side-hobby of programming.
At work I manage a web server, and pretty much am more comfy with Perl and
Bash and now Python. But I also want to be sure to keep up with the times,
so to speak. So I wondered if other admins recommended Ansible as a "must
have skill" or just optional.


You are now talking different things.  "developer" --> "admins"

If you are managing multiple servers as profession, you need to make such
process recorded and reproducible.  That's what configuration management
system is for and it is becoming one of the very basic tool to know.

Good luck.

Osamu


I manage one server plus I have a test Virtual Machine I use on my 
computer to test things.


I also write scripts for the server to do some custom things we need to 
do. So I kind of do both things.

Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[deloptes]

Zenaan Harkness wrote:

> Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.

haha " digital wedgies"!
you don't have to know python to use ansible
Actually YAML is more important for ansible

regards

Re: Kernels above 4.9 break encrypted disks

[Borden Rhodes]

Thank you for your response, Pascal,

Thank you, also, for your very clear instructions. It's nice not
having to guess the rest of the command I need to use. My kernel
hacking abilities are elementary, at best.

Here is the output from my system:
$ modinfo 4.12.0-1-amd64 xts
modinfo: ERROR: Module 4.12.0-1-amd64 not found.
filename:   /lib/modules/4.9.0-3-amd64/kernel/crypto/xts.ko
alias:  crypto-xts
alias:  xts
description:XTS block cipher mode
license:GPL
depends:gf128mul
intree: Y
vermagic:   4.9.0-3-amd64 SMP mod_unload modversions

$ lsinitramfs /boot/initrd.img-4.12.0-1-amd64 | grep ecb
## No output

I'm sure I just need to tweak something in a setting somewhere. I just
don't know where to begin.

With thanks,

X problems in Stretch with AMD APU?

[Zoltán Herman]

And what kind of kernel is installed 4.9 or 4.11?
Check the kernel log to see if the firmware has been loaded.

>>
I have a home theatre PC with an AMD A6-3500 APU. Bit of an oldie but still
plays everything fine. The drivers supplied by the Jessie repositories
(including fglrx for hardware acceleration) worked fine.

But then I upgraded to Stretch and suddenly started without X. The debian
supplied drivers don't seem to support the A6 any more?

I got everything working again 3 weeks ago by installing the proprietary
drivers (catalyst 15.9). But now X has gone again and the same catalyst
package refuses to install.

The error message that the installer gives is that the X version is too low
for catalyst?

Then I removed (--purge) xserver-xorg-core and reinstalled it. But when I
now start X it says 'no screens found'..

Is there a way to get the AMD APUs off that generation working in Stretch
working again?

Or to at least start X again (with a very low resolution, assuming basic
hardware)?
<<
Add non-free to sources.list
update
install firmware-amd-graphics
etc.
<<.

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Felix Perez]

El 19 de agosto de 2017, 19:18, Edwin De La Cruz
 escribió:
> El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 15:04, Esteban Monge
>  escribió:
>> Tienes algún link con la configuración que has hecho es de "a contado" muy
>> difícil
>>
>> On August 19, 2017 11:58:10 AM CST, Edwin De La Cruz 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mis proyectos de software libre en:
>>> Github - edwinspire
>>>
>>>
>>> El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 10:42, AlexLikeRock
>>>  escribió:
>
>  Saludos cordiales a todos.
>  Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es
>  acerca de gvfs-mount.
>
>  Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso
> como
>  usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me
> permite
>  montarlo.
>
>  Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.
>
>
>
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/
>
>  He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
>  De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero
>  montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me
> sirve.
>
>  Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria
>  mucho.




  la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,

  yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)


  hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es
  peligroso,

   y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.


   platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gracias por responder.
>>> Lo que intento es montar un sitio FTP usando GVFS-MOUNT, porque me
>>> parece mas comodo hacerlo, ya que la aplicacion que estoy haciendo
>>> corre como servicio y monta distintos sitios FTP obtiene algunos
>>> archivos y sale. Tambien hago el mismo proceso pero conectandome a
>>> carpetas compartidas de windows.
>>>
>>> Son muchos sitios FTP y carpetas compartidas a las cuales me conecto y
>>> todos los dias son diferentes, por eso no opto por usar fstab para
>>> montarlos en forma permanente.
>>>
>>> Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal funciona sin problema, pero al
>>> ejecutarlo como servicio o desde cron falla. Haciendo algunas pruebas
>>> he notado que no funciona al ejecutarlo como root.
>>> No estoy seguro pero cuando se ejecuta la aplicacion desde cron o
>>> poniendolo como servicio lo hace como root por eso no funciona.
>>>
>>> Si algun me puede iluminar se lo agredeceria mucho.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> Algo muy sencillo de probar es este script:
>
> #!/bin/sh
> gvfs-mount ftp://anonym...@ftp.gnu.org
> gvfs-ls ftp://anonym...@ftp.gnu.org
>
>
> Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal no tiene problema, pero cuando
> lo ejecuto como root deja de hacerlo,
>

Has revisado los permisos?


-- 
usuario linux  #274354
normas de la lista:  http://wiki.debian.org/es/NormasLista
como hacer preguntas inteligentes:
http://www.sindominio.net/ayuda/preguntas-inteligentes.html

Re: cannot connect to WPA2 SSIDs after installation

[bw]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, jratl...@bluemarble.net wrote:


On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:43:34 -0400,  wrote:

I'm trying to put Debian 9 (stretch) on the original Microsoft Surface


You really should read the installation guide, there is a section about 
new interface naming.




I noticed also that every time I would boot, the device had a different
seemingly random MAC address. Since the udev name it generated was really
long, I wanted to rename it so I could test using the command line without
network manager, but I couldn't use the jessie and older trick of
70-persistent-net.rules because the MAC would always change. So I disabled
persistent names with net.ifnames=0 in GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in
/etc/default/grub. After that, the MAC address is not random on boot
anymore. Also, I can connect to my SSID.

I don't think this is the cause, more of a symptom. I'm just not sure what
it means.




I'm not sure what it means either.  The way I understand so far, the idea 
is very good: use random MAC to allow obscurity in certain wireless 
(and ?wired) functions.  Unfortunately, some devices seem to refuse assignment

of random MAC addresses, or they have issues with certain functions after.

I think your workaround is good for now, don't allow this feature, and in 
the meantime do some further research.

Re: cannot connect to WPA2 SSIDs after installation

[jratliff]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:43:34 -0400,  wrote:
> I'm trying to put Debian 9 (stretch) on the original Microsoft Surface
> Pro. I installed it, but I cannot connect to my wireless SSID after the
> installation is finished.
> 
> When the installer tries to connect, it works fine. But after I boot
into
> the finished install, it just keeps asking for my SSID pass phrase over
and
> over. I'm sure it's correct. I've checked it multiple times. Also, the
key
> is saved from the installer, where it successfully connected.
> 
> I have no problems connecting to the WiFi from System Rescue CD 5.0.3,
> either.
> 
> I'm not sure what's missing in my debian install, and I'm not sure what
> logs are available to investigate this.
> 
> The firmware is loaded. It's some kind of Marvell USB Wireless adapter.
I
> installed the firmware-libertas package and dmesg shows that it loaded
the
> firmware.
> 
> Any suggestions on what else I might need to be looking at?
> 
> Thanks.

I noticed also that every time I would boot, the device had a different
seemingly random MAC address. Since the udev name it generated was really
long, I wanted to rename it so I could test using the command line without
network manager, but I couldn't use the jessie and older trick of
70-persistent-net.rules because the MAC would always change. So I disabled
persistent names with net.ifnames=0 in GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in
/etc/default/grub. After that, the MAC address is not random on boot
anymore. Also, I can connect to my SSID.

I don't think this is the cause, more of a symptom. I'm just not sure what
it means.

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Edwin De La Cruz]

El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 15:04, Esteban Monge
 escribió:
> Tienes algún link con la configuración que has hecho es de "a contado" muy
> difícil
>
> On August 19, 2017 11:58:10 AM CST, Edwin De La Cruz 
> wrote:
>>
>> Mis proyectos de software libre en:
>> Github - edwinspire
>>
>>
>> El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 10:42, AlexLikeRock
>>  escribió:

  Saludos cordiales a todos.
  Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es
  acerca de gvfs-mount.

  Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso
 como
  usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me
 permite
  montarlo.

  Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.



 http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/

  He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
  De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero
  montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me
 sirve.

  Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria
  mucho.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
>>>
>>>  yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>  hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es
>>>  peligroso,
>>>
>>>   y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
>>>
>>>
>>>   platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gracias por responder.
>> Lo que intento es montar un sitio FTP usando GVFS-MOUNT, porque me
>> parece mas comodo hacerlo, ya que la aplicacion que estoy haciendo
>> corre como servicio y monta distintos sitios FTP obtiene algunos
>> archivos y sale. Tambien hago el mismo proceso pero conectandome a
>> carpetas compartidas de windows.
>>
>> Son muchos sitios FTP y carpetas compartidas a las cuales me conecto y
>> todos los dias son diferentes, por eso no opto por usar fstab para
>> montarlos en forma permanente.
>>
>> Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal funciona sin problema, pero al
>> ejecutarlo como servicio o desde cron falla. Haciendo algunas pruebas
>> he notado que no funciona al ejecutarlo como root.
>> No estoy seguro pero cuando se ejecuta la aplicacion desde cron o
>> poniendolo como servicio lo hace como root por eso no funciona.
>>
>> Si algun me puede iluminar se lo agredeceria mucho.
>>
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Algo muy sencillo de probar es este script:

#!/bin/sh
gvfs-mount ftp://anonym...@ftp.gnu.org
gvfs-ls ftp://anonym...@ftp.gnu.org


Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal no tiene problema, pero cuando
lo ejecuto como root deja de hacerlo,

Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2017 #884

[Greg Marks]

The principal reason I switched back, many years ago, to vim in
a terminal was that you could NOT paste text by highlighting with
the mouse.  I had been using some text editor on a Mac, and there was
a keyboard shortcut--I never figured out what it was--that I would
accidentally hit that had the effect of highlighting all text from
the cursor to the end of the document.  So when you're typing quickly
and do this, the next keystroke erases the rest of your document.
Incredibly annoying!  The standard vim setup, where you can highlight
text to paste in another window without worrying about deleting it,
is far superior.

> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2017 15:04:42 +0300
> From: Reco 
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste
> 
>  Hi.
> 
> On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 13:56:15 +0200
> Rob van der Putten  wrote:
> 
> > Hi there
> > 
> > 
> > After a upgrade from jessie to stretch I can't use the mouse to cut and 
> > paste in vim.
> > nvi works, nano works.
> > As quick fix I removed xxd and installed the jessie version of vim, 
> > vim-common and vim-runtime. This does work.
> 
> A known problem. Apparently upstream thought (and Debian maintainer
> followed) that it would be good idea to enable so-called 'mouse support'
> in vim. As a result X cutbuffer ceased to function in vim.
> They also enabled 'incremental search' by default too, which is
> annoying to say the least.
> 
> It took me some time to figure a way to disable these 'innovations'
> systemwide, but I got it:
> 
> echo let g:skip_defaults_vim = 1 >> /etc/vim/vimrc.local
> 
> Reco


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> am learning Pythong.

Pythong, -the- language for digital wedgies.

Re: Fonts for widgets in Cinnamon

[Dominic Knight]

On Sat, 2017-08-19 at 21:04 +0200, Jeff wrote:
> I have been using Cinnamon (from testing) for a couple of years with
> no
> problem until a couple of days ago, when suddenly the font size for
> most
> widgets increased. This is annoying, as certain lists in things like
> Thunderbird no longer fit on the page.
> 
> I started playing with the fonts preferences in Cinnamon, to no
> avail. I
> could change all sorts of things about the panel font size, but not
> things like the size of the menus in the programs themselves. I
> wondered instead if the problem was with one of the themes in
> Cinnamon,
> but all the installed ones seem to have the same problem.
> 
> I looked at the settings in /usr/share/cinnamon/theme/cinnamon.css,
> but
> wasn't able change the font size.
> 
> I tend to update & upgrade every day, so I then looked through
> /var/log/dpkg.log for a recent upgrade that could be at fault.
> 
> I downgraded libgtk-3-0, libgtk-3-common, libgail-3-0, gir1.2-gtk-
> 3.0,
> gtk-update-icon-cache, libgtk-3-bin to 3.22.17-1, which didn't help.
> 
> I downgraded libwayland-client0, libwayland-cursor0 & libwayland-
> server0
> to 1.13.0-1, but that didn't help either.
> 
> So I'm now out of ideas.
> 
> Does anyone know where I should look next?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jeff
> 
> P.S. Please put me in cc, as I am not subscribed to the list.
> 
If it's the same issue, (changed sunday 6th August) I think it was a
change in gsettings...something - it only bothered me using chromium
though, with huge fonts for the bookmark bar and top menu I worked
around this by starting chrome with 
/usr/bin/chromium %U --force-device-scale-factor=1.5
Maybe, if only Thunderbird is affected for you, there is a similar
setting for starting that?
Another work around is to alter your fonts to work with a program,
start the software and then alter them back so other programs work as
wanted too, harsh way to do it though. 

>From Chromiums old bug reports 
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=375824#c65 
this was deemed to be the issue back in 2014:
"Use GtkSettings's gtk-xft-dpi property to convert Pango font
descriptions from points to pixels. Previously
PangoContext's default resolution, which is sometimes
(always?) unset, was used, resulting in 96 DPI being used
for conversions regardless of the value reported by X."

Re: Virtualbox for stretch and buster not in repos

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 2017-08-19 20:47 +0200 Gilles Mocellin 
wrote:
>Unless you really don't wnt libvirt, you should look at virt-manager.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look into libvirt in the
unlikely case that my current approach becomes insufficient in the future.
So far it works fine.

Regards.


pgpMnu7TdyUCb.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Virtualbox for stretch and buster not in repos

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 11:02:58AM -0500, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> On 2017-08-19 17:02 +1000 Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
> >Which TUI/GUI do you use?
> 
> I do not know what is TUI.

Text User Interface / command line.


> I don't use any GUI. I write Bash scripts
> that call QEMU with the required options and I use “qemu-img” from the
> command line when needed.

Hm. Nice way to go.


> >I've been struggling to create a Host-only network. In VirtualBox
> >(and VMWare from version 1 or very early) I could basically just
> >tick a check box for "Host only network", and name one or more shared
> >folders.
> 
> The easiest way to do this in QEMU is to use the “-net
> user,restrict=on,hostfwd=...” option. The hostfwd part is optional, but you
> will require if you want host–guest network connectivity.
> 
> This way, networking is handled in user space. A more efficient approach
> is to use kernel-managed networking. It is my understanding that for this,
> one may use the TUN and TAP virtual Linux devices, but I have never done
> it.

Some years back I was using OpenVPN for a while, so got a little
experience with TAP back then.


> >I realise I probably have to mount the SAMBA horse again. And for
> >libre software, I'm willing to do all this.
> 
> Why do you want to use SAMBA? Install a SSH server in the guest and access
> it from the host using scp, sftp or rsync. Rsync is the most efficient.

This sounds like a great idea! SAMBA's brittleness in configuration
(due to my dunceness) when trying to make it work with XP, W7 or now
it would be W10 in the VM, has just never been a comfortable easy
thing, for me.

Years ago I even ran cygwin sshd from memory - but I'm certain
there's cygwin ssh client, so I could use that even from the Windows
side. Thank you very much for the reminder :)

cannot connect to WPA2 SSIDs after installation

[jratliff]

I'm trying to put Debian 9 (stretch) on the original Microsoft Surface
Pro. I installed it, but I cannot connect to my wireless SSID after the
installation is finished.

When the installer tries to connect, it works fine. But after I boot into
the finished install, it just keeps asking for my SSID pass phrase over and
over. I'm sure it's correct. I've checked it multiple times. Also, the key
is saved from the installer, where it successfully connected.

I have no problems connecting to the WiFi from System Rescue CD 5.0.3,
either.

I'm not sure what's missing in my debian install, and I'm not sure what
logs are available to investigate this.

The firmware is loaded. It's some kind of Marvell USB Wireless adapter. I
installed the firmware-libertas package and dmesg shows that it loaded the
firmware.

Any suggestions on what else I might need to be looking at?

Thanks.

Re: No ifconfig

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 10:23:37AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote:
> 
> > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this
> > > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the
> > > things we want to do with a computer?
> >
> > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
> 
> I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change 
> is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by 
> the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might 
> be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments 
> to be made.

> Either in the docs,

It's just doco, even other genders can do that, so by all means ...
feel free to help out.


> or the code.

It's just codind, even other genders can do that, so by all means ...
feel free to help out.


> I don't believe for a 
> millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user 
> harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't 
> understand why a useful tool has been deprecated.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 

Re: no /etc/inittab

[Joe]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 14:59:46 -0500
David Wright  wrote:

> On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:53:01 (+0100), Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
> wrote:
> > Joe: [ in
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00700.html ] 
> > >Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable.
> > >Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the
> > >init system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the
> > >world.  
> 
> This describes wheezy/7/sysvinit → change of init → jessie/8/systemd.
> 
> > Nicolas George:
> >   
> > >I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because
> > >of that.  
> 
> And I had no problem with upgrading like that either.
> 
> > You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded
> > to Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did
> > not complete unattended.  
> 
> That is a different process with which I have no experience, never
> having bothered to run systemd on wheezy. It was advertised IIRC
> as a technology preview so I'm not sure it would be wise to have
> moved servers onto it.
> 

I don't think it actually did much, I never bothered investigating it.
But sid of course had a developing version of it. I deliberately
switched a mature and heavily-loaded sid to it and after a short
struggle got it to boot. But it became very flaky, occasionally didn't
boot, didn't shut down, and had other little foibles, so I did a
get-selections, installed a new minimal stable (I think jessie was
still testing then), upgraded to sid, added systemd then did the
set-selections and full rebuild. I don't think all is as well as it
might be, but it's OK. I think a machine really needs systemd right
from installation to be maximally stable.

-- 
Joe

X problems in Stretch with AMD APU?

[Alle Meije Wink]

I have a home theatre PC with an AMD A6-3500 APU. Bit of an oldie but still
plays everything fine. The drivers supplied by the Jessie repositories
(including fglrx for hardware acceleration) worked fine.

But then I upgraded to Stretch and suddenly started without X. The debian
supplied drivers don't seem to support the A6 any more?

I got everything working again 3 weeks ago by installing the proprietary
drivers (catalyst 15.9). But now X has gone again and the same catalyst
package refuses to install.

The error message that the installer gives is that the X version is too low
for catalyst?

Then I removed (--purge) xserver-xorg-core and reinstalled it. But when I
now start X it says 'no screens found'..

Is there a way to get the AMD APUs off that generation working in Stretch
working again?

Or to at least start X again (with a very low resolution, assuming basic
hardware)?

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Esteban Monge]

Tienes algún link con la configuración que has hecho es de "a contado" muy 
difícil 

On August 19, 2017 11:58:10 AM CST, Edwin De La Cruz  
wrote:
>Mis proyectos de software libre en:
>Github - edwinspire
>
>
>El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 10:42, AlexLikeRock
> escribió:
>>> Saludos cordiales a todos.
>>> Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y
>es
>>> acerca de gvfs-mount.
>>>
>>> Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso
>como
>>> usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me
>permite
>>> montarlo.
>>>
>>> Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/
>>>
>>> He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
>>> De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero
>>> montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me
>sirve.
>>>
>>> Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo
>agradeceria
>>> mucho.
>>>
>>
>>
>> la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
>>
>> yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
>>
>>
>> hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es
>> peligroso,
>>
>>  y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
>>
>>
>>  platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Gracias por responder.
>Lo que intento es montar un sitio FTP usando GVFS-MOUNT, porque me
>parece mas comodo hacerlo, ya que la aplicacion que estoy haciendo
>corre como servicio y monta distintos sitios FTP obtiene algunos
>archivos y sale. Tambien hago el mismo proceso pero conectandome a
>carpetas compartidas de windows.
>
>Son muchos sitios FTP y carpetas compartidas a las cuales me conecto y
>todos los dias son diferentes, por eso no opto por usar fstab para
>montarlos en forma permanente.
>
>Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal funciona sin problema, pero al
>ejecutarlo como servicio o desde cron falla. Haciendo algunas pruebas
>he notado que no funciona al ejecutarlo como root.
>No estoy seguro pero cuando se ejecuta la aplicacion desde cron o
>poniendolo como servicio lo hace como root por eso no funciona.
>
>Si algun me puede iluminar se lo agredeceria mucho.

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: no /etc/inittab

[David Wright]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:53:01 (+0100), Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> Joe: [ in https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00700.html ]
> 
> >Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable.
> >Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the
> >init system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the
> >world.

This describes wheezy/7/sysvinit → change of init → jessie/8/systemd.

> Nicolas George:
> 
> >I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because of that.

And I had no problem with upgrading like that either.

> You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded
> to Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did
> not complete unattended.

That is a different process with which I have no experience, never
having bothered to run systemd on wheezy. It was advertised IIRC
as a technology preview so I'm not sure it would be wise to have
moved servers onto it.

Cheers,
David.

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 15:38:14 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 15:26:02 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote:
> > > /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon?
> > > This is 2017.
> >
> > For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very
> > well.  I run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong
> > address to what it discovers.
> >
> > But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at
> > /etc/avahi/hosts, and the only machine/address it discovered is
> > correct, for my brother MFC's scanner.local.  The tabloid capable
> > printer in it is also at that address.  I looked at the manpage for
> > daemon.conf but have not looked at the file.  It seems to me that if
> > its to be usefull, it should detect everything in my local class D
> > block. There are from 4 to 6 other machines here, 4 others minimum. 
> > Why did it not detect them also? If its to be OOTB a substitute for
> > /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well.
>
> Cannot help you with the 192.168 addresses thing. But, given your
> curiosity bent, I think you could sort this out if you look at what
> /etc/hosts and avahi do. I've never need to alter /etc/avahi/hosts.

I know what etc/hosts is, but the instant question is "do I 
add /etc/avahi/hosts as a 3rd place to look for this data?, and if so, 
the expected syntax to use in my /etc/resolv.conf?" Currently:

# Generated by Gene Heskett
nameserver 192.168.71.1
search host,dns
domain coyote.den

Thanks Brian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,


On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 02:32:45PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> ...
> 
> > I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
> > "development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
> > and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.
> 
> The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to do a
> task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. Python taking
> one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and it gets confusing.
> 
> > You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
> > development.
> 
> Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but not
> that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient with Perl,
> am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have much to share
> (right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. Most of my stuff
> is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff (though I could share my
> code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into a side-hobby of programming.
> At work I manage a web server, and pretty much am more comfy with Perl and
> Bash and now Python. But I also want to be sure to keep up with the times,
> so to speak. So I wondered if other admins recommended Ansible as a "must
> have skill" or just optional.

You are now talking different things.  "developer" --> "admins"

If you are managing multiple servers as profession, you need to make such
process recorded and reproducible.  That's what configuration management
system is for and it is becoming one of the very basic tool to know.

Good luck.

Osamu

Re: No ifconfig

[Brian]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 15:26:02 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote:
> 
> > /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon?
> > This is 2017.
> 
> For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very well.  I 
> run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong address to what 
> it discovers.
> 
> But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at /etc/avahi/hosts, 
> and the only machine/address it discovered is correct, for my brother 
> MFC's scanner.local.  The tabloid capable printer in it is also at that 
> address.  I looked at the manpage for daemon.conf but have not looked at 
> the file.  It seems to me that if its to be usefull, it should detect 
> everything in my local class D block. There are from 4 to 6 other 
> machines here, 4 others minimum.  Why did it not detect them also? If 
> its to be OOTB a substitute for /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well.

Cannot help you with the 192.168 addresses thing. But, given your
curiosity bent, I think you could sort this out if you look at what
/etc/hosts and avahi do. I've never need to alter /etc/avahi/hosts.

-- 
Brian. 

Re: Problema con ultima actualización-testing

[Miguel Angel]

Gracias por tu ayuda AlexLikeRock, te paso los datos:

Filesystem tamaño usados dip uso montado
udev   1.5g 0 1.5g   0% /dev
tmpfs302M4.6m   297M   2% /run
/dev/sdb147g 26g  20g   57%  /
tmpfs 1.5g 01.5g 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs  5.0M   4.7K   5.0M1% /run/lock
tmpfs 1.5g 01.5g 0% /sys/fs/cgroup

No creo que sea falta de espacio de todas formas he loberado unos cinco
gigas mas por si acaso y tampoco funciona no carga la sesion.

Yo creo que tiene que ver con algun archivo que se intalo en la
actualizacion de hace cuatro o cinco dias. Que entraban archivos de inicio
de sesion.

Pero no se como actualizar, porque me marca nuevas actualizaciones pero
luego no las puede descargar da error. Con el mismo equipo si puedo
descargar con otro sistema operativo.



El 19 de agosto de 2017, 17:36, AlexLikeRock 
escribió:

>
> presiona CTRL + ALT + F1
>
> eso te llevara a  TTY1 ,  accede como ROOT;
>
> usuario: root
>
> contraseña: 
>
>  usa el comando :
>
> # df -h
>
> y te dira cunto espacio libre le queda,
>
> lo mas rovable es que no le quede espacio
>
>
> ejemplo;
>
> $ df -h
> Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda2   199G  179G  9.7G  95% /< este es el importante
> udev 10M 0   10M   0% /dev
> tmpfs   198M  856K  197M   1% /run
> tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
> tmpfs   396M   76K  396M   1% /run/shm
> cgroup   12K 0   12K   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> cgmfs   100K 0  100K   0% /run/cgmanager/fs
>
> "/" = "raiz"   = Avail = 9.7G = buen espacio libre
>
> menos de 100M (100 megas) = Malo
>
> platicanos , cuanto dice el tuyo, y  en caso de estar con poco espacio
> libre,
>
> borra de el siguiente folder los "temporales" del instalador
>
> #  rm *.deb  /var/cache/apt/archives/
>
> con eso liberas un poco de espacio
>
> si ocupas liberar mas espacio, busca en google o pregunta en el chat IRC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/18/2017 02:37 AM, Miguel Angel wrote:
>
>> Buenos dias:
>> Tengo instalado debian tsting en un amd 64 bits, en la ultima
>> actualizacion en la que creo que han actualizado paquetes de inicio de
>> sesion. Cuando he reiniciado el equipo no me inicia la sesion después de
>> loguarme .
>> Aparece mi usuario y puedo teclear la contraseña pero no carga la sesion
>> alguna idea para que no tenga que reinstalar todo denuevo.
>>
>
>

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 14:57:46 Brian wrote:

> On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 14:38:57 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote:
> > > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
> > > > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red
> > > > >> hat and they can become "your" lackeys.
> > > > >
> > > > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd
> > > > > did so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat
> > > > > instead is libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest
> > > > > you retract and apologize immediately.
> > > >
> > > > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in
> > > > Gene's signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But
> > > > don't take it personally, it is only politics.
> > >
> > > As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its
> > > conclusions about you both, and I have decided to never give you
> > > any help whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically.
> > > I suspect most helpful contributors on this list have already
> > > silently decided the same, or will do so soon if you continue
> > > insulting the Debian developers.
> >
> > This has already affected my willingness to help people having
> > trouble with network-mangler.
> >
> > For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum
> > of 253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine
> > method is identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical
> > /etc/resolv.conf on all machines.  You then setup an eth0 stanza
> > in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that
> > machine. Interfaces will look something like this:
> > =
> > auto lo
> >
> > # The loopback network interface
> > iface lo inet loopback
> > address 127.0.0.1
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> >
> > auto eth0
> >
> > # regular network for coyote.den
> > iface eth0 inet static
> > address 192.168.xx.xx
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > gateway 192.168.xx.xx
> > =
> >
> > Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx
> > Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler.
> >
> > And the best part? It Just Works(TM).
> >
> > But I've caught so much static over preaching about a
> > non-network-mangler solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that
> > I have given up speaking up when to me that solution is the ideal
> > solution to their problems.
> >
> > So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me,
> > thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion.  Where your expertise
> > exceeds mine, I'll do the same.  Fair?
>
> Which "poor OP" are you referring to? It has been a long thread.
>
Heck of a good question Brian, it has indeed been a long thread, and my 
short term memory fails me.

> > > Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I
> > > post it to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will
> > > answer this mail with another useless stunt. Please go ahead.
>
> network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into
> making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a
> lack of any deep understanding of how the software works.
>
> /etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon?
> This is 2017.

For starters, it seems not to want to use 192.168 addresses very well.  I 
run it, but no clue what it does except assign the wrong address to what 
it discovers.

But my curiosity bump needed scratching, so I looked at /etc/avahi/hosts, 
and the only machine/address it discovered is correct, for my brother 
MFC's scanner.local.  The tabloid capable printer in it is also at that 
address.  I looked at the manpage for daemon.conf but have not looked at 
the file.  It seems to me that if its to be usefull, it should detect 
everything in my local class D block. There are from 4 to 6 other 
machines here, 4 others minimum.  Why did it not detect them also? If 
its to be OOTB a substitute for /etc/hosts, its not doing at all well.

Thanks Brian.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Brian]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 15:05:51 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[Lots and lots of brutal snipping]

> ===
> 
> > * https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html
> 
> Which is even older with a 1997 origin date.
> 
> I won't waste the bandwidth by copy/pasteing that one too, but I think I
> might have made the point, the point being that those of us still on 
> wheezy because its generally dead stable, have had zero introduction 
> to these new methods.  So please quit assuming we know all about them.

We are stuck in the Dark Ages. Do not presume we want to leave them and
explore the New Land.

> We don't. If indeed they aren't applicable to wheezy, then it does put
> another point on the argument that our docs are incomplete and/or out
> of date.

We are happy in our ignorance.

> So we've come full circle I believe.

Not really. The starting point has not been left.

-- 
Brian.

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 13:35:09 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

> Jonathan de Boyne Pollard:
> > Furthermore: In this *particular* regard, the developer-provided
> > doco actually *is* clear. The upstart manual page for inittab has
> > been warning that the file is obsolete for over ten years, and that
> > manual page is copied all over the WWW making it fairly easy to come
> > across. (Examples: https://linux.die.net/man/5/inittab
> > https://askubuntu.com/questions/34308/
> > https://serverfault.com/questions/147430/
> > http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man5/inittab.5.html)
> >
> > The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the
> > upstart people did, although they have explicitly documented run
> > levels as "obsolete" in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This,
> > too, has been copied around the WWW, albeit somewhat less.
> > (Examples:
> > https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html
> > http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/runlevel.8.html
> > https://www.mankier.com/8/runlevel)
>
> Gene Heskett:
> > Its becoming obsolete is NOT mentioned in my wheezy approved and
> > supplied man page for it, I just read it this instant. So if you
> > call it widely publicized it fails that definition AFAIAC.
>
> Debian 7 has those very manual pages:
>
>
> * https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/upstart/inittab.5.en.html

It does?  Consider this, from a man 5 inittab, on this wheezy machine:
INITTAB(5)  Linux System Administrator's 
Manual INITTAB(5)

NAME
   inittab - format of the inittab file used by the sysv-compatible init 
process

DESCRIPTION
   The  inittab  file  describes  which  processes  are  started at bootup 
and during normal operation (e.g. /etc/init.d/boot,
   /etc/init.d/rc, gettys...).  Init(8) distinguishes multiple runlevels, 
each of which can have its own set of processes that
   are  started.  Valid runlevels are 0-6 plus A, B, and C for ondemand 
entries.  An entry in the inittab file has the follow‐
   ing format:

  id:runlevels:action:process

   Lines beginning with `#' are ignored.

   id is a unique sequence of 1-4 characters which identifies an entry 
in inittab (for versions of sysvinit compiled  with
  the old libc5 (< 5.2.18) or a.out libraries the limit is 2 
characters).

  Note:  traditionally,  for getty and other login processes, the 
value of the id field is kept the same as the suffix
  of the corresponding tty, e.g. 1 for tty1. Some ancient login 
accounting programs might expect this, though I  can't
  think of any.

   runlevels
  lists the runlevels for which the specified action should be 
taken.

   action describes which action should be taken.

   process
  specifies  the  process to be executed.  If the process field 
starts with a `+' character, init will not do utmp and
  wtmp accounting for that process.  This is needed for gettys that 
insist on doing their own utmp/wtmp  housekeeping.
  This is also a historic bug.

   The  runlevels  field may contain multiple characters for different 
runlevels.  For example, 123 specifies that the process
   should be started in runlevels 1, 2, and 3.  The runlevels for ondemand 
entries may contain an A, B, or C.   The  runlevels
   field of sysinit, boot, and bootwait entries are ignored.

   When  the  system  runlevel is changed, any running processes that are 
not specified for the new runlevel are killed, first
   with SIGTERM, then with SIGKILL.

   Valid actions for the action field are:

   respawn
  The process will be restarted whenever it terminates (e.g. getty).

   wait   The process will be started once when the specified runlevel is 
entered and init will wait for its termination.

   once   The process will be executed once when the specified runlevel is 
entered.

   boot   The process will be executed during system boot.  The runlevels 
field is ignored.

   bootwait
  The process will be executed during system boot, while init waits 
for its termination (e.g. /etc/rc).  The runlevels
  field is ignored.

   offThis does nothing.

   ondemand
  A  process  marked  with  an  ondemand runlevel will be executed 
whenever the specified ondemand runlevel is called.
  However, no runlevel change will occur (ondemand runlevels are 
`a', `b', and `c').

   initdefault
  An initdefault entry specifies the runlevel which should be 
entered after system boot.  If none  exists,  init  will
  ask for a runlevel on the console. The process field is ignored.

   sysinit
  The process will be executed during system boot. It will be 
executed before any boot or  bootwait entries.  The 

Fonts for widgets in Cinnamon

[Jeff]

I have been using Cinnamon (from testing) for a couple of years with no
problem until a couple of days ago, when suddenly the font size for most
widgets increased. This is annoying, as certain lists in things like
Thunderbird no longer fit on the page.

I started playing with the fonts preferences in Cinnamon, to no avail. I
could change all sorts of things about the panel font size, but not
things like the size of the menus in the programs themselves. I
wondered instead if the problem was with one of the themes in Cinnamon,
but all the installed ones seem to have the same problem.

I looked at the settings in /usr/share/cinnamon/theme/cinnamon.css, but
wasn't able change the font size.

I tend to update & upgrade every day, so I then looked through
/var/log/dpkg.log for a recent upgrade that could be at fault.

I downgraded libgtk-3-0, libgtk-3-common, libgail-3-0, gir1.2-gtk-3.0,
gtk-update-icon-cache, libgtk-3-bin to 3.22.17-1, which didn't help.

I downgraded libwayland-client0, libwayland-cursor0 & libwayland-server0
to 1.13.0-1, but that didn't help either.

So I'm now out of ideas.

Does anyone know where I should look next?

Regards

Jeff

P.S. Please put me in cc, as I am not subscribed to the list.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: No ifconfig

[Brian]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 14:38:57 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote:
> 
> > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
> > > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat
> > > >> and they can become "your" lackeys.
> > > >
> > > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did
> > > > so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is
> > > > libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and
> > > > apologize immediately.
> > >
> > > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's
> > > signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But don't take it
> > > personally, it is only politics.
> >
> > As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions
> > about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help
> > whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect
> > most helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided
> > the same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian
> > developers.
> 
> This has already affected my willingness to help people having trouble 
> with network-mangler.
> 
> For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum of 
> 253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine method is 
> identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical /etc/resolv.conf 
> on all machines.  You then setup an eth0 stanza 
> in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that 
> machine. Interfaces will look something like this:
> =
> auto lo
> 
> # The loopback network interface
> iface lo inet loopback
> address 127.0.0.1
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> 
> auto eth0
> 
> # regular network for coyote.den
> iface eth0 inet static
> address 192.168.xx.xx
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.xx.xx
> =
> 
> Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx
> Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler.
> 
> And the best part? It Just Works(TM).
> 
> But I've caught so much static over preaching about a non-network-mangler 
> solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that I have given up speaking 
> up when to me that solution is the ideal solution to their problems.
> 
> So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me, 
> thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion.  Where your expertise exceeds 
> mine, I'll do the same.  Fair?

Which "poor OP" are you referring to? It has been a long thread.
 
> > Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it
> > to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail
> > with another useless stunt. Please go ahead.

network-mangler? This demonstrates a disdain for the work put into
making networking comfortable on Debian. It also probably infers a
lack of any deep understanding of how the software works.

/etc/hosts files advocated? What is wrong with using avahi-demon?
This is 2017.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Virtualbox for stretch and buster not in repos

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le samedi 19 août 2017, 17:02:23 CEST Zenaan Harkness a écrit :
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 08:23:13PM -0500, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> Which TUI/GUI do you use?

Unless you really don't wnt libvirt, you should look at virt-manager.

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 10:49:57 Nicolas George wrote:

> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
> > >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat
> > >> and they can become "your" lackeys.
> > >
> > > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did
> > > so because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is
> > > libelous and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and
> > > apologize immediately.
> >
> > I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's
> > signature order). I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But don't take it
> > personally, it is only politics.
>
> As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions
> about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help
> whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect
> most helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided
> the same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian
> developers.

This has already affected my willingness to help people having trouble 
with network-mangler.

For folks with a small SOHO network setup that involves the maximum of 
253 or so maximum addresses, the most dependable intermachine method is 
identical /etc/hosts files, combined with an identical /etc/resolv.conf 
on all machines.  You then setup an eth0 stanza 
in /etc/network/interfaces that matches the name assigned to that 
machine. Interfaces will look something like this:
=
auto lo

# The loopback network interface
iface lo inet loopback
address 127.0.0.1
netmask 255.255.255.0

auto eth0

# regular network for coyote.den
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.xx.xx
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.xx.xx
=

Substituting that machines address in place of the xx.xx
Shut down dhcpd as its not needed, nor is network-mangler.

And the best part? It Just Works(TM).

But I've caught so much static over preaching about a non-network-mangler 
solution that is 90% less trouble to setup that I have given up speaking 
up when to me that solution is the ideal solution to their problems.

So you can ignore me, and I'll ignore you, until you contradict me, 
thereby adding to the poor OP's confusion.  Where your expertise exceeds 
mine, I'll do the same.  Fair?

> Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it
> to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail
> with another useless stunt. Please go ahead.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[RavenLX]

On 08/19/2017 11:16 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Just fixing the subject, for the benefit of search engines.

- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlmYVkcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kb7fACfcOsMgvXnd34Ch56vm0dFrHMk
iXQAnjK0rM6Gw9XkTGa2EGc8m550J2kc
=4CIk
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Thank you. I'm sorry about the typo. I'll reply in this fixed thread.

On 08/19/2017 11:12 AM, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 07:01:03PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
>> Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed 
in CM

>> (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.
>>
>> Because this will more than likely be tltr (too long to read), I'll 
try to

>> make it as fun as possible. Forgive if my humor is a bit strange.
>>
>> I noticed "Anible" isn't in the debian repos. Seems to be a Red Hat
>> scripting engine for creating automated installs.
>
> Just a fact correction.
>
> I think you are mistyping.  Ansible is in the repo of Debian:

Thank you. I think that's why I couldn't find it - I mispelled it. :)

[snipped apt show info]

...

> I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
> "development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice
> and interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.

The biggest thing with me is my memory. In that if it takes too much to 
do a task (ie. Ansible taking several lines to make a directory vs. 
Python taking one line), then I tend to forget how things are done and 
it gets confusing.


> You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for
> development.

Great suggestions! Thank you. I do have some C programming skills but 
not that great. I can get around the CLI pretty well, I'm proficient 
with Perl, am learning Pythong. I had used git but I don't really have 
much to share (right now) and so I don't have an account anymore there. 
Most of my stuff is for my work, which doesn't really share stuff 
(though I could share my code if I wish). I'm not thinking of going into 
a side-hobby of programming. At work I manage a web server, and pretty 
much am more comfy with Perl and Bash and now Python. But I also want to 
be sure to keep up with the times, so to speak. So I wondered if other 
admins recommended Ansible as a "must have skill" or just optional.

Re: Virtualbox for stretch and buster not in repos

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 2017-08-19 17:02 +1000 Zenaan Harkness  wrote:
>Which TUI/GUI do you use?

I do not know what is TUI. I don't use any GUI. I write Bash scripts
that call QEMU with the required options and I use “qemu-img” from the
command line when needed.

>I've been struggling to create a Host-only network. In VirtualBox
>(and VMWare from version 1 or very early) I could basically just
>tick a check box for "Host only network", and name one or more shared
>folders.

The easiest way to do this in QEMU is to use the “-net
user,restrict=on,hostfwd=...” option. The hostfwd part is optional, but you
will require if you want host–guest network connectivity.

This way, networking is handled in user space. A more efficient approach
is to use kernel-managed networking. It is my understanding that for this,
one may use the TUN and TAP virtual Linux devices, but I have never done
it.

>I realise I probably have to mount the SAMBA horse again. And for
>libre software, I'm willing to do all this.

Why do you want to use SAMBA? Install a SSH server in the guest and access
it from the host using scp, sftp or rsync. Rsync is the most efficient.


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[Edwin De La Cruz]

Mis proyectos de software libre en:
Github - edwinspire


El día 19 de agosto de 2017, 10:42, AlexLikeRock
 escribió:
>> Saludos cordiales a todos.
>> Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es
>> acerca de gvfs-mount.
>>
>> Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso como
>> usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me permite
>> montarlo.
>>
>> Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.
>>
>>
>> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/
>>
>> He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
>> De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero
>> montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me sirve.
>>
>> Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria
>> mucho.
>>
>
>
> la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,
>
> yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)
>
>
> hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es
> peligroso,
>
>  y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.
>
>
>  platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Gracias por responder.
Lo que intento es montar un sitio FTP usando GVFS-MOUNT, porque me
parece mas comodo hacerlo, ya que la aplicacion que estoy haciendo
corre como servicio y monta distintos sitios FTP obtiene algunos
archivos y sale. Tambien hago el mismo proceso pero conectandome a
carpetas compartidas de windows.

Son muchos sitios FTP y carpetas compartidas a las cuales me conecto y
todos los dias son diferentes, por eso no opto por usar fstab para
montarlos en forma permanente.

Cuando lo ejecuto como usuario normal funciona sin problema, pero al
ejecutarlo como servicio o desde cron falla. Haciendo algunas pruebas
he notado que no funciona al ejecutarlo como root.
No estoy seguro pero cuando se ejecuta la aplicacion desde cron o
poniendolo como servicio lo hace como root por eso no funciona.

Si algun me puede iluminar se lo agredeceria mucho.

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Jonathan de Boyne Pollard:

Furthermore: In this *particular* regard, the developer-provided doco 
actually *is* clear. The upstart manual page for inittab has been 
warning that the file is obsolete for over ten years, and that manual 
page is copied all over the WWW making it fairly easy to come across. 
(Examples: https://linux.die.net/man/5/inittab 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/34308/ 
https://serverfault.com/questions/147430/ 
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man5/inittab.5.html)


The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the 
upstart people did, although they have explicitly documented run 
levels as "obsolete" in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This, 
too, has been copied around the WWW, albeit somewhat less. (Examples: 
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html 
http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/runlevel.8.html 
https://www.mankier.com/8/runlevel)




Gene Heskett:

Its becoming obsolete is NOT mentioned in my wheezy approved and 
supplied man page for it, I just read it this instant. So if you call 
it widely publicized it fails that definition AFAIAC.




Debian 7 has those very manual pages:


* https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/upstart/inittab.5.en.html


* https://manpages.debian.org/wheezy/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html

Re: No ifconfig

[Brian]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 10:23:37 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote:
> 
> > Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this
> > > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the
> > > things we want to do with a computer?
> >
> > Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
> 
> I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change 
> is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by 
> the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might 
> be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments 
> to be made. Either in the docs, or the code.  I don't believe for a 
> millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user 
> harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't 
> understand why a useful tool has been deprecated.

I know this thread has been a long, interesting and involved one but it
included this:

 https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg00798.html

To remind ourselves (about why net-tools is not in the base system):

 Indeed.  It shouldn't, and it doesn't anymore.  Maybe net-tools should
 be part of the *standard* system, but it certainly does not belong to
 the *base* system anymore.

Continuing:

 It is broken in that it just *can't* handle the Linux networking stack
 except for the bare minimum functionality on IPv4 (no, it doesn't meet
 even the bare minimum for IPv6), and the only reason we had to keep it
 around by default (consistent output that some scripts scrapped) was
 broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell
 and started maintaining it again.

A minor effort in research comes up with a posting from 2009:

 https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2009/03/msg00780.html

 Luk Claes and me, as the current maintainers of net-tools, we've been
 thinking about it's future. Net-tools has been a core part of Debian and
 any other linux based distro for many years, but it's showing its age.

 It doesnt support many of the modern features of the linux kernel, the
 interface is far from optimal and difficult to use in automatisation,
 and also, it hasn't got much love in the last years.

The average user has to get their head round this (without invoking "I
have eated my potatos mashed for the past thirty years") to understand
why net-tools has been deprecated. And, of course, "deprecated" does not
bar a user from installing the net-tools package. You know what? Both
could be used. Ease yourself in!

Quality of documentation in the iproute2 package? File bugs. (With
patches).

HowILearnedtoStopWorryingandLovetheiproute2Package sounds like a decent
wiki title. It could have loads of examples and contrasts with ifconfig
based on the knowledgeable contributions in this thread. Any takers (he
says, not holding his breath).

-- 
Brian.

Re: What tool can I use to make efficient incremental backups?

[Mario Castelán Castro]

On 2017-08-18 23:53 +0100 Liam O'Toole  wrote:
>I use duplicity for exactly this scenario. See the wiki page[1] to get
>started.
>
>1: https://wiki.debian.org/Duplicity

Judging from a quick glance at that project's homepage in GNU Savannah,
this seem indeed to be the right tool for the job, but I have yet to try
it.

Thanks you very much.


pgpN7SLbQgXNO.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Offtopic] GVFS como root

[AlexLikeRock]

Saludos cordiales a todos.
Tengo una consulta q no esta relacionada directamente com debian y es 
acerca de gvfs-mount.


Nevesito montar un sitio ftp y gvfs me va de maravilla cuando lo uso 
como usuario normal, sin embargo cuando lo hago con usuario root no me 
permite montarlo.


Aqui hay algo similar a lo q me pasa.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/ubuntu-12-04-cronjob-failed-to-mount-ftp-share-using-gvfs-mount-4175504945/

He buscado en google ya dos dias y no doy con la solucion.
De lo q he encontrado de otras personas con mi mismo problema pero 
montando un recurso de samba es usar smbclient. Para mi caso no me sirve.


Si alguien sabe o tiene una idea de como solventarlo ae lo agradeceria 
mucho.





la verdad hay peores off-topic  que tu pregunta,

yo a tu pregunta la considero ON-TOPIC :-)


hay muchos programas que no los puedes ejecutar como root por que es 
peligroso,


 y por seguridad ellos mismo vienen con un bloque de seguridad.


 platicanos , por que quieres ejecutarlo como root?

Re: Problema con ultima actualización-testing

[AlexLikeRock]

presiona CTRL + ALT + F1

eso te llevara a  TTY1 ,  accede como ROOT;

usuario: root

contraseña: 

 usa el comando :

# df -h

y te dira cunto espacio libre le queda,

lo mas rovable es que no le quede espacio


ejemplo;

$ df -h
Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda2   199G  179G  9.7G  95% /< este es el importante
udev 10M 0   10M   0% /dev
tmpfs   198M  856K  197M   1% /run
tmpfs   5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
tmpfs   396M   76K  396M   1% /run/shm
cgroup   12K 0   12K   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
cgmfs   100K 0  100K   0% /run/cgmanager/fs

"/" = "raiz"   = Avail = 9.7G = buen espacio libre

menos de 100M (100 megas) = Malo

platicanos , cuanto dice el tuyo, y  en caso de estar con poco espacio 
libre,


borra de el siguiente folder los "temporales" del instalador

#  rm *.deb  /var/cache/apt/archives/

con eso liberas un poco de espacio

si ocupas liberar mas espacio, busca en google o pregunta en el chat IRC






On 08/18/2017 02:37 AM, Miguel Angel wrote:

Buenos dias:
Tengo instalado debian tsting en un amd 64 bits, en la ultima 
actualizacion en la que creo que han actualizado paquetes de inicio de 
sesion. Cuando he reiniciado el equipo no me inicia la sesion después 
de loguarme .
Aparece mi usuario y puedo teclear la contraseña pero no carga la 
sesion alguna idea para que no tenga que reinstalar todo denuevo.

Thoughts on Ansible? [was: Thoughts on Anible?]

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Just fixing the subject, for the benefit of search engines.

- -- t
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlmYVkcACgkQBcgs9XrR2kb7fACfcOsMgvXnd34Ch56vm0dFrHMk
iXQAnjK0rM6Gw9XkTGa2EGc8m550J2kc
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Re: Thoughts on Anible?

[Osamu Aoki]

Hi,



On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 07:01:03PM -0400, RavenLX wrote:
> Please forgive my goofy questions. I am not really that well versed in CM
> (Configuration Management) and this post is really going to show it.
> 
> Because this will more than likely be tltr (too long to read), I'll try to
> make it as fun as possible. Forgive if my humor is a bit strange.
> 
> I noticed "Anible" isn't in the debian repos. Seems to be a Red Hat
> scripting engine for creating automated installs.

Just a fact correction.

I think you are mistyping.  Ansible is in the repo of Debian:

$ apt show ansible
Package: ansible
Version: 2.2.1.0-2
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Maintainer: Harlan Lieberman-Berg 
Installed-Size: 12.8 MB
Depends: python-crypto (>= 2.6), python-jinja2, python-paramiko, 
python-pkg-resources, python-yaml, python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 
2.7.5-5~), python-httplib2, python-netaddr
Recommends: python-kerberos, python-selinux, python-winrm (>= 0.1.1), 
python-xmltodict
Suggests: cowsay, sshpass
Homepage: https://www.ansible.com
Tag: admin::automation, admin::configuring, admin::file-distribution,
 admin::package-management, implemented-in::python,
 interface::commandline, role::program, use::configuring,
 works-with::software:running
Download-Size: 1,675 kB
APT-Sources: http://deb.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
Description: Configuration management, deployment, and task execution system
 Ansible is a radically simple model-driven configuration management,
 multi-node deployment, and remote task execution system. Ansible works
 over SSH and does not require any software or daemons to be installed
 on remote nodes. Extension modules can be written in any language and
 are transferred to managed machines automatically.

...
> I heard about "Ansible" and how it is supposed to make it easier to write
> installation scripts.

Correct spelling ;-)

I think use of ansible or any similar tool is not prerequisite of
"development".  It's a configuration management system.   It's a nice and
interesting tool I am thinking to learn but I don't use it yet.

You need C, Shell, Perl, Python, git, ... skills first for development.

Osamu

Re: No ifconfig

[Nicolas George]

Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
> >> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they 
> >> can
> >> become "your" lackeys.

> > Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so
> > because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous
> > and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize
> > immediately.

> I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's signature 
> order).
> I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But don't take it personally, it is only 
> politics.

As far as I am concerned, the jury has already given its conclusions
about you both, and I have decided to never give you any help
whatsoever, unless you change your attitude dramatically. I suspect most
helpful contributors on this list have already silently decided the
same, or will do so soon if you continue insulting the Debian
developers.

Anyway, I have no hope that you will understand my position, I post it
to make it clear for other readers. No doubt you will answer this mail
with another useless stunt. Please go ahead.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: No ifconfig

[Nicolas George]

Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
> become "your" lackeys.

Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so
because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous
and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize
immediately.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: geo...@nsup.org
> To: Fungi4All 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org , Gene Heskett 
> 
>
> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Fungi4All a écrit :
>> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
>> become "your" lackeys.
>
> Suggesting that the Debian developers who chose to use systemd did so
> because they are corrupt and were payed by RedHat instead is libelous
> and deeply insulting to them. I suggest you retract and apologize
> immediately.

I am at the stage of awaiting for jury for that one (as in Gene's signature 
order).
I am way beyond soap bubbles.  But don't take it personally, it is only 
politics.

> --
> Nicolas George

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 09:30:10 Nicolas George wrote:

> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this
> > gibberish generator called ip, so we can just get back to doing the
> > things we want to do with a computer?
>
> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.

I (in the first person sense) do not expect them to be, but when a change 
is made, and its not an improvement the users can see, as evidenced by 
the level and tone of rhetoric seen here about it, whatever "it" might 
be, something decent docs would tamp down, I'd expect some adjustments 
to be made. Either in the docs, or the code.  I don't believe for a 
millisecond the writers are trying to make life for the average user 
harder, "we understand it, why can't you", but we aren't you, we don't 
understand why a useful tool has been deprecated.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: fungil...@protonmail.com
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org 
> Gene Heskett 
>
>> From: geo...@nsup.org
>> To: Gene Heskett 
>> debian-user@lists.debian.org
>>
>> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
>>> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish
>>> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want
>>> to do with a computer?
>>
>> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.
>
> Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
> become "your" lackeys.
>
>> Nicolas George

Or at least that is what this video says: 
[https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/113](https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/113/)

Re: No ifconfig

[Fungi4All]

> From: geo...@nsup.org
> To: Gene Heskett 
> debian-user@lists.debian.org
>
> Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
>> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish
>> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want
>> to do with a computer?
>
> Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.

Unless you are willing to pay more than n s a sys tem d red hat and they can
become "your" lackeys.

> Nicolas George

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 05:32:25 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

> Felix Miata:
> > What's needed is incentive for code creators to simultaneously
> > document, with ample examples that man pages usually omit, even if
> > it's only in formal, non-wikified docs that wikis can point to.

That would be fine if the README had those links in it, but how to 
enforce it?
>
> Gene Heskett:
> > It should be an iron-clad rule that a developer submitting his itch
> > scratcher code to a distribution must be subscribed to that
> > distributions user list BEFORE he can commit.
>
> That does not work and does not scale.

Scale?  How many active developers would that involve?  Surely the 
mailing list machines capacity can't be a problem.  I don't really care 
if the developer never replies, but he should be at least reading it to 
collect the users of his code flowers for a job well done and bricks 
thrown when its a screwed up mess only he knows how to make work..

> What would work is what M. 
> Miata said, which is to inculcate in software developers a culture of
> always providing doco with the software, and regarding the job as not
> complete unless there is doco.

I agree, but how to enforce it?
>
> That said, an obscure page (which people even in this thread were hard
> pressed to find) on someone else's wiki does not really count.

Nope. The link and paths to the doco must be complete enough a google 
search can find it, in the top page of the search results.

> Furthermore: In this *particular* regard, the developer-provided doco
> actually *is* clear.  The upstart manual page for inittab has been
> warning that the file is obsolete for over ten years, and that manual
> page is copied all over the WWW making it fairly easy to come across.
> (Examples: https://linux.die.net/man/5/inittab
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/34308/
> https://serverfault.com/questions/147430/
> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man5/inittab.5.html)

Its becoming obsolete is NOT mentioned in my wheezy approved and supplied 
man page for it, I just read it this instant.  So if you call it widely 
publicized it fails that definition AFAIAC.
>
> The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the
> upstart people did, although they have explicitly documented run
> levels as "obsolete" in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This,
> too, has been copied around the WWW, albeit somewhat less. (Examples:
> https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html
> http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/runlevel.8.html
> https://www.mankier.com/8/runlevel)
>
I have only one machine with a new enough install, jessie, to have a some 
of systemd, so I am still learning.  Fortunately when I screw up, it 
tries to educate me, but the wet ram is A: north of 80 yo, and B: not 
yet "in the habit" since the rest of my stuff is running wheezy.

> I for one have been attempting spreading the word about inittab, too.
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/inittab-is-history.html
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/introduction.html
>
> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/248313/5132
>
> * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/196197/5132
>
> * https://askubuntu.com/a/834323/43344
>
> * http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/runlevel.html
>
> In this particular case, one cannot really level the charge of
> developers not documenting this.  It is amply documented, by
> developers of multiple projects, in their manual pages in their
> handbooks/guides and on their WWW sites, for over a decade.  The
> deficiencies of Debian's own wiki cannot legitimately be laid at the
> feet of the developers of the various softwares.
>
> One such developer even tried to donate to you an update to the Debian
> Policy Manual that explained both /etc/inittab (in section 9.3.4) and
> the changes that arrived in 2014, to replace your woefully outdated
> one:

I'm assuming the "you" above is aimed at debian as I do not recall it 
otherwise.

> * http://jdebp.eu./Proposals/DebianPolicy/

Which again, is a link I've just now become aware of. I am for it of 
course but it has that unmistakable odor of the N.I.H. syndrome on the 
part of Debian. Is the bug machine the proper place to open some windows 
and let that odor dissipate?

Thanks Jonathan.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: No ifconfig

[Nicolas George]

Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish 
> generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want 
> to do with a computer?

Never. Debian developers are not your lackeys.

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: No ifconfig

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 19 August 2017 04:15:42 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

> Glenn English:
> > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others,
> > and having everything broken now is a major PITA.
> >
> > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess,
> > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined
> > to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return
> > gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written.
>
+10

> That is, in fact, what the BSD people did.  On FreeBSD and OpenBSD,
> for examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability,
> with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen,
> auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled.

So when do we get that ported and into debian, replacing this gibberish 
generator call ip, so we can just get back to doing the things we want 
to do with a computer?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: libindi versions

[bernard . schoenacker]

- Mail original -
> De: "alain" 
> À: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org
> Envoyé: Samedi 19 Août 2017 14:07:30
> Objet: libindi versions
> 
> Dear Debian Team,
> 
> is there a particular reason why the official Debian distributions do
> not include latest Indi versions and the related 3rd party indi
> drivers?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 

et l'eau bue éclate ...

pour libindi prière de consulter la liste des paquets :

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libindi


slt
bernard

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Pierre Frenkiel]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:

The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the upstart 
people did, although they have explicitly documented run levels as "obsolete" 
in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This, too, has been copied around the 
WWW, albeit somewhat less. (Examples: 
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html


  on Stretch, you have the same content with "man runlevel" (with a better
  table rendering)
  As to inittab, I tried "man inittab", which gave me "no manual entry..."
  but after
  MANPATH="$MANPATH:/usr/share/man/fr/
  I got the inittab manual in french, which describes the Unix SysV startup
  It is in the package manpages-fr-extra, whose version is 20151231...
  I wonder why it is still available in the Stretch repository

Re: Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


On 19/08/17 14:10, Brian wrote:


"set mouse=" in ~/.vimrc.


In /etc/vim/vimrc it doesn't work.
In ~/.vimrc it does.

Thanks!


Regards,
Rob

libindi versions

[alain]

Dear Debian Team,

is there a particular reason why the official Debian distributions do
not include latest Indi versions and the related 3rd party indi drivers?


Thanks

Re: Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste

[Nicolas George]

Le duodi 2 fructidor, an CCXXV, Rob van der Putten a écrit :
> After a upgrade from jessie to stretch I can't use the mouse to cut and
> paste in vim.

Try "set mouse=" (empty option).

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

Re: Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste

[Brian]

On Sat 19 Aug 2017 at 13:56:15 +0200, Rob van der Putten wrote:

> After a upgrade from jessie to stretch I can't use the mouse to cut and
> paste in vim.
> nvi works, nano works.
> As quick fix I removed xxd and installed the jessie version of vim,
> vim-common and vim-runtime. This does work.

"set mouse=" in ~/.vimrc.

Re: Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste

[Reco]

Hi.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 13:56:15 +0200
Rob van der Putten  wrote:

> Hi there
> 
> 
> After a upgrade from jessie to stretch I can't use the mouse to cut and 
> paste in vim.
> nvi works, nano works.
> As quick fix I removed xxd and installed the jessie version of vim, 
> vim-common and vim-runtime. This does work.

A known problem. Apparently upstream thought (and Debian maintainer
followed) that it would be good idea to enable so-called 'mouse support'
in vim. As a result X cutbuffer ceased to function in vim.
They also enabled 'incremental search' by default too, which is
annoying to say the least.

It took me some time to figure a way to disable these 'innovations'
systemwide, but I got it:

echo let g:skip_defaults_vim = 1 >> /etc/vim/vimrc.local

Reco

Re: No ifconfig

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2017, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> Henrique de Moraes Holschuh:
> > [...] and the only reason we had to keep it around by default [...] was
> > broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot pit hell
> > and started maintaining it again.
> 
> net-tools is not a GNU Software package.

Hmm, indeed it isn't.  I apologise for the mistake.

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

Stretch vim doesnt cut and paste

[Rob van der Putten]

Hi there


After a upgrade from jessie to stretch I can't use the mouse to cut and 
paste in vim.

nvi works, nano works.
As quick fix I removed xxd and installed the jessie version of vim, 
vim-common and vim-runtime. This does work.



Regards,
Rob

Re: no /etc/inittab

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Joe:

Stretch? Systemd was default init for Jessie, the previous stable. 
Worse, an upgrade of Wheezy to Jessie would actually change the init 
system used, thus breaking almost every Debian server in the world.




Nicolas George:


I must be lucky, none of the servers that I handle broke because of that.



You are. Every single Debian 7 system with systemd that I upgraded to 
Debian 8 hit Debian Bug #774153, meaning that the upgrades did not 
complete unattended.

Re: obsolete wiki (no /etc/inittab)

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Felix Miata:

What's needed is incentive for code creators to simultaneously 
document, with ample examples that man pages usually omit, even if 
it's only in formal, non-wikified docs that wikis can point to.




Gene Heskett:

It should be an iron-clad rule that a developer submitting his itch 
scratcher code to a distribution must be subscribed to that 
distributions user list BEFORE he can commit.




That does not work and does not scale.  What would work is what M. Miata 
said, which is to inculcate in software developers a culture of always 
providing doco with the software, and regarding the job as not complete 
unless there is doco.


That said, an obscure page (which people even in this thread were hard 
pressed to find) on someone else's wiki does not really count.  
Furthermore: In this *particular* regard, the developer-provided doco 
actually *is* clear.  The upstart manual page for inittab has been 
warning that the file is obsolete for over ten years, and that manual 
page is copied all over the WWW making it fairly easy to come across.  
(Examples: https://linux.die.net/man/5/inittab 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/34308/ 
https://serverfault.com/questions/147430/ 
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man5/inittab.5.html)


The systemd people have not explicitly documented inittab, as the 
upstart people did, although they have explicitly documented run levels 
as "obsolete" in the systemd manual page for runlevel. This, too, has 
been copied around the WWW, albeit somewhat less. (Examples: 
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/systemd-sysv/runlevel.8.en.html 
http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/runlevel.8.html 
https://www.mankier.com/8/runlevel)


I for one have been attempting spreading the word about inittab, too.

* http://jdebp.eu./FGA/inittab-is-history.html

* http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/introduction.html

* https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/248313/5132

* https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/196197/5132

* https://askubuntu.com/a/834323/43344

* http://jdebp.eu./Softwares/nosh/guide/runlevel.html

In this particular case, one cannot really level the charge of 
developers not documenting this.  It is amply documented, by developers 
of multiple projects, in their manual pages in their handbooks/guides 
and on their WWW sites, for over a decade.  The deficiencies of Debian's 
own wiki cannot legitimately be laid at the feet of the developers of 
the various softwares.


One such developer even tried to donate to you an update to the Debian 
Policy Manual that explained both /etc/inittab (in section 9.3.4) and 
the changes that arrived in 2014, to replace your woefully outdated one:


* http://jdebp.eu./Proposals/DebianPolicy/

Re: No ifconfig

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 09:15:42AM +0100, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote:
> Glenn English:
> 
> > I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, and 
> > having everything broken now is a major
> > PITA.
> > 
> > I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, 
> > especially with the introduction of ipv6. But
> > I'd have more inclined to fix what was there than to replace it with 
> > commands that return gibberish and kill so
> > many scripts so many people have written.
> > 
> 
> That is, in fact, what the BSD people did.  On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, for 
> examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional
> IPv6 capability, with parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, 
> prefixlen, auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy,
> defaultif, and ifdisabled.

Perhaps Devuan would better suit you? - they keep sysvinit as
primary, saving you the hassle of updating/ rewriting your scripts
and/ or learning systemd.

Or as you mention, FreeBSD or OpenBSD?

There is no shortage of options.

[no subject]

[max vidocq]

  Bonjour Angelique
3. Placée sous le vicable de Notre-Dame, l' église cathédrale d' Amiens est un 
haut lieu de la dévotion mariale. C' est pourquoi la pohychromie du portail de 
la Mère Dieu, éclairée la nuit par des lampes à huiles, a fait l' objet de 
repeints successifs jusqu' à la fin du Moyen Age.
4. Aimé et Louis Duthoit. Vue panoramique d' Amiens en 1721, depuis le nord, d' 
après Jean Gourdain vers 1840-1850, encre et aquarelle sur papier blanc. 
Amiens, Musée de Picardie.
Pour les programmes sculptés de ses façades, la cohérence de son plan, la 
beauté de son élévation intérieure à trois niveaux et la richesse de son 
mobilier, Notre-Dame d' Amiens est incrite sur la liste du patrimoine mondial 
de l' Unesco en 1981. En 1998, la plus grande des églises gothiques classiques 
du xllle siècle l' est une seconde fois comme monument étape des Chemins de 
Compostelle. Cinquante ans de gros oeuvre. En ville haute, fondé sur la 
dernière terrasse de creusement de la vallée de la Somme, le quartier épiscopal 
domine le fleuve. Sur son site, il est impossible de localiser avec certitude 
l' emprise de la cathédrale romane ruinée par l' incendie de 1218. Les indices 
archéologiques ont probablement disparu durant le creusement des profondes 
fondations du grand oeuvre gothique. Aux dimenstions considérables du nouvel 
édifice s' opposent très vite des contraintes d' espace. ll faut programmer sur 
son flanc nord-ouest le déplacement de l' église Saint-Firmin-le-Confesseur et 
envisager le transfert de l' hotel-Dieu dans la basse ville. Les travaux ne 
peuvent donc pas étre engagés par le choeur lorsqu' en 1220 le chantier de 
cette vaste cathédrale est ouvert par Evrard de Fouilloy 1211-1222. A la mort 
de l' évèque, seules les fondations sont en partie achevées. En 1233, ou au 
plus tard en 1236, la nef est réalisée. Aprés, dans les années 1240, les 
ressources financières se réduisent et le chantier se ralentit. En 1243, les 
chanoines disposant désormais des terrains indispensables pour bàtir le 
transept, il est probable que le chevet soit en construction. Les voutes des 
chapelles rayonnantes sont méme montées quand, en 1258, survient un incendie à 
leur niveau. Par la suite, en dépit de l' exigence technique que requiert le 
montage du couvrement, le travail progresse rapidement et on pose dans l' axe 
de l' abside le vitrail offert en 1269 par Bernard d' Abbeville 1259-1278. 
Cette fenétre haute indique la date communément admise pour l' achèvement du 
gros oeuvre, moins de cinquante ans après le début du chantier.
  Max

Envoyé à partir d’Outlook

Re: no /etc/inittab

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Pierre Frenkiel:

I discovered recently, after re-installing my system with the Debian 
9.1 kde live dvd, that the /etc/inittab is no more present, although 
all the documentation I found still mentions it,




Have a frequently given answer that tells you otherwise.  (-:

* http://jdebp.eu./FGA/inittab-is-history.html

mplayer is waiting for FUTEX_CLOCK_REALTIME

[romph]

Hello,

I've performed dist-upgrade to stable yesterday.
The mplayer needed a lot of time to start.
I recorded the strace output and found, that mplayer
is waiting for futex with argument:

FUTEX_WAIT_BITSET_PRIVATE|FUTEX_CLOCK_REALTIME

as you can see below at the last line of trace.
Has anybody some idea to solve this problem?

(strace output)
...
futex(0x1a933d4, FUTEX_WAIT_BITSET_PRIVATE|FUTEX_CLOCK_REALTIME, 35,
{tv_sec=1513130233,tv_nsec=852974237}, 0x) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource
temporarily unavailable)
futex(0x1a933b8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 0
futex(0x1ab4a1c, FUTEX_CMP_REQUEUE_PRIVATE, 1, 2147483647, 0x1ab4a00, 6) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a00, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab49e8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a1c, FUTEX_CMP_REQUEUE_PRIVATE, 1, 2147483647, 0x1ab4a00, 8) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a00, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab49e8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a1c, FUTEX_CMP_REQUEUE_PRIVATE, 1, 2147483647, 0x1ab4a00,
10) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a00, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab49e8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a1c, FUTEX_CMP_REQUEUE_PRIVATE, 1, 2147483647, 0x1ab4a00,
14) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a00, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab49e8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a1c, FUTEX_CMP_REQUEUE_PRIVATE, 1, 2147483647, 0x1ab4a00,
16) = 1
futex(0x1ab4a00, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
futex(0x1ab49e8, FUTEX_WAKE_PRIVATE, 1) = 1
clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {tv_sec=5322, tv_nsec=341673113}) = 0
clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {tv_sec=5322, tv_nsec=342191156}) = 0
clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {tv_sec=5322, tv_nsec=342580189}) = 0
clock_gettime(CLOCK_REALTIME, {tv_sec=1503130233, tv_nsec=746257053}) = 0
clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, {tv_sec=5322, tv_nsec=343962305}) = 0
futex(0x1a933d4, FUTEX_WAIT_BITSET_PRIVATE|FUTEX_CLOCK_REALTIME, 37,
{tv_sec=1513130233, tv_nsec=852771053}, 0x

Re: No ifconfig

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Glenn English:

I've written many scripts over the years, using ifconfig and others, 
and having everything broken now is a major PITA.


I very much agree that sysV init and those old commands were a mess, 
especially with the introduction of ipv6. But I'd have more inclined 
to fix what was there than to replace it with commands that return 
gibberish and kill so many scripts so many people have written.




That is, in fact, what the BSD people did.  On FreeBSD and OpenBSD, for 
examples, modern ifconfig has fully functional IPv6 capability, with 
parameters like (to pick just some at random) eui64, prefixlen, 
auto_linklocal, autoconfprivacy, defaultif, and ifdisabled.

No ifconfig

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Henrique de Moraes Holschuh:
[...] and the only reason we had to keep it around by default [...] 
was broken by GNU upstream when it took ifconfig out of the bit-rot 
pit hell and started maintaining it again.


net-tools is not a GNU Software package.

* https://sourceforge.net/projects/net-tools/

* https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html

Re: W: Failed to fetch [..] The following signatures were invalid: [..]

[Jonathan de Boyne Pollard]

Adam Cecile:

Since I upgraded to Stretch I get the following warning when running 
apt update:


W: Failed to fetch 
http://archive.cloudera.com/cdh5/debian/jessie/amd64/cdh/dists/jessie-cdh5/InRelease The 
following signatures were 
invalid:F36A89E33CC1BD0F71079007327574EE02A818DD




What the people at Cloudera want is 
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/387053/ .  What you need is to 
tell the people at Cloudera that.


The Cloudera people also need to update their instructions to cover 
Debian 9.  Just duplicating the Debian 8 and 7 instructions is not 
really right, note.

Re: N’hésites pas de commencer une conversation avec moi Gaelle

[Frédéric WANIART]

Merci de cette information.

Je suis convaincu que nous pouvons monter un partenariat gagnant gagnant
pour votre notoriété et notre projet veliques.
Dans l'attente de vous rencontrer.
Merci de trouver ci joint notre dossier de propositions.
Cordialement

*Fréderic WANIART*

*+33 (0) 681 413 587*

2017-08-18 17:48 GMT+02:00 Gaelle Sngleton :

>
> Je ne mords pas tu sais. Bon, sauf si t le demande…
> http://bitly.com/2wlDnxY
>

Re: Kernels above 4.9 break encrypted disks

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 19/08/2017 à 08:48, Borden Rhodes a écrit :

I'm on the Buster repo. For all kernels released after 4.9, I can't
boot into my system, which has all encrypted partitions except for
/boot. I think tihs is my problem, as I get the same symptoms:
https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/issues/319

I decided to wait until the 4.12 kernel came out, which it just did,
hoping that this 'regression' - as they call it - would be fixed.
However, I'm getting the same "check that kernel supports
aes-xts-plain64 cipher" error and the inability to boot.


The fix was merged in mainline 4.11. Can you check the dependencies of 
module xts ?


modinfo -k  xts

and the presence of module ecb in the initramfs ?

lsinitramfs /boot/initrd.img- | grep ecb

Kernels above 4.9 break encrypted disks

[Borden Rhodes]

I'm on the Buster repo. For all kernels released after 4.9, I can't
boot into my system, which has all encrypted partitions except for
/boot. I think tihs is my problem, as I get the same symptoms:
https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/issues/319

I decided to wait until the 4.12 kernel came out, which it just did,
hoping that this 'regression' - as they call it - would be fixed.
However, I'm getting the same "check that kernel supports
aes-xts-plain64 cipher" error and the inability to boot.

Is this a bug that needs to be reported to Debian or a change in
policy requiring me to set up new encrypted partitions? If the latter,
is there a way to do it without having to wipe and reload Debian? I'm
guessing not, but I thought I'd ask.

With thanks,

Re: Virtualbox for stretch and buster not in repos

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 08:23:13PM -0500, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> On 2017-08-18 17:56 -0700 Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> >There's always VMWare or XEN neither of which I have any real experience
> >with, just read the manuals.  Never cared much for QEMU or kvm, but
> >that was years ago.  Maybe, they're easier to set up and use now..
> 
> QEMU has been well documented for as long as I have cared to read
> its documentation, which is at least 5 years. Of course, anything but the
> most basic software is hard to “set up and use” if you do not read he
> manual.

Which TUI/GUI do you use?

I've been struggling to create a Host-only network. In VirtualBox
(and VMWare from version 1 or very early) I could basically just
tick a check box for "Host only network", and name one or more shared
folders.

I realise I probably have to mount the SAMBA horse again. And for
libre software, I'm willing to do all this.

My most recent trial was just pre-Debian 9.0 - I could not get the
dual monitor setup working properly (SPICE) - the mouse was the deal
breaker, just repeating over the first "virtual monitor"'s window,
and having traversed it the second time (left to right), would pop
out the RHS of the RHS virtual monitor window. Last night I had the
thought that perhaps I can just stretch the first window the full
width of my two monitors (and rotate my portrait monitor back to
landscape, so that I can use all my real estate.

I'm pretty sure I could get everything working properly yet - it just
takes the time, and in the mean time my life has caught up with me
again, and so again I'm VM-less since Virtualbox stopped working
quite a few months ago (forget why - it didn't get updated for a
while to match some debian kernel or something - this might have been
Oracle virtualbox, I don't recall sorry...)

Re: Thoughts on Anible?

[deloptes]

RavenLX wrote:

> Should Ansible be added to my list? Or do devs recommend something else?
> 
> (I am wondering if the "user" mailing list is even the right place to
> ask?)

It was indeed a long reading. I couldn't understand why you exactly use
config automation.

In my opinion it is best suited where you must manage multiple devices of
same type and keep them at same state.
I wrote recently few ansible playbooks. If you are experienced you may not
need that much testing, but ... still it takes time to write and improve a
playbook.

Knowing ansible does not have anything to do with python. Actually you need
more yaml knowledge. There are ready modules that you can use.

regards