Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Pankaj Jangid]

deloptes  writes:

>> But anyway, I have some spare GPUs from AMD (Radeon RX580) and am
>> planning go via Ryzen way. So I guess, I will be able to utilize the
>> things nicely now. Thanks.
>
> Keep in mind that AMD dropped support for their older card models.

Hmm... that’s another research work for me. Thanks for the advice.

-- 
Regards,
Pankaj Jangid

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Felix Miata]

Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z composed on 2021-03-09 19:22 (UTC-0400):

>> My 2 cents worth, Deb10 with either Mate or xfce desktop. KDE/plasma is
> great, but I find it slow to load on i7 with 8G ram and add. It has more
> config options, but I've gotten over that. Oh, I don't boot often, but I've
> grown impatient.

>> As I said, my 2 cents worth.

> Wow, it looks like KDE is really bloated.

KDE is one of the oldest DEs, thus has acquired more features. They need not be
used all at once, so need not generate the giant monolith feeling many would 
have
you believe. It need not use any more RAM than XFCE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrvJOXypAbk
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Could KDE work adequately on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and an Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 2.33 GHz?

[Weaver]

On 10-03-2021 17:05, deloptes wrote:
> Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> 
>> I would like to install Debian 10 with the KDE Plasma task
>> on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33 GHz,
>> it doesn't have a GPU.
>> Do you think it would run without problems
>> or would it be slow and laggy?
> 
> Yes, I think it will not work - better try lighter desktops or the older KDE
> that is called now Trinity Desktop

Try Enlightenment.
It's very configurable once get familiar with all the options.
Cheers!

Harry

-- 
`The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but
 because of those who look on without doing anything'.
 -- Albert Einstein

Re: Could KDE work adequately on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and an Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 2.33 GHz?

[deloptes]

Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:

> I would like to install Debian 10 with the KDE Plasma task
> on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33 GHz,
> it doesn't have a GPU.
> Do you think it would run without problems
> or would it be slow and laggy?

Yes, I think it will not work - better try lighter desktops or the older KDE
that is called now Trinity Desktop

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[deloptes]

Pankaj Jangid wrote:

> But anyway, I have some spare GPUs from AMD (Radeon RX580) and am
> planning go via Ryzen way. So I guess, I will be able to utilize the
> things nicely now. Thanks.

Keep in mind that AMD dropped support for their older card models.

Re: chrome me pone la pc demasiado lenta

[Eduardo Jorge Gil Michelena]

 Con 30 pestañas abiertas es normal que la página se ponga lenta.
Cada pestaña es independiente de otra y consume recursos de micro y RAM también 
de manera independiente.

El tema de la RECIENTE inestabilidad a la que aludes puede deberse al sitio que 
accedes, con el auge de los JScripts las páginas de internet se cargaron de 
scripts, algunos de los cuales pueden estar programados para la mona (muchos de 
los programadores actuales son pésimos) y por ello suelen colgar los softwares 
de las máquinas clientes. Por otro lado... cada año las páginas suelen estar 
más cargadas (los que diseñan páginas les meten tanta porquería que terminan 
usando una bestialidad de RAM y Micro) YO buscaría más por ese lado que por el 
lado de TU máquina.

Aún así... Chrome (y derivados) suelen ser peores que Firefox y Opera. También 
puedes probar por ahí.
 El viernes, 5 de marzo de 2021 08:55:32 ART, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano 
 escribió:  
 
 Estimados:

Utilizo debian 10 xfce desde hace mucho tiempo. Desde hace algunos días 
cuando abro Chrome (se abren como 30 páginas de inicio) el sistema se 
pone muy inestable y lento.

Me gustaría saber como solucionar este problema.

Probé de utilizar el comando "top". y me aparece varias sesiones de 
chrome utilizando (no entiendo como puede ser, pero yo digo lo que sale) 
una sesión 55% del cpu, otra 50%, otra 45%, otra 40% y asi muchas.

Gracias compañeros


  

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Doug McGarrett]

On 3/9/21 6:50 PM, David Christensen wrote:

On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:

On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <



What model mac?



It's a mac pro.



When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
"assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..


I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui 
--- is

there
a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
('uname' only
identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' 
command.)



The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a 
nameplate, a sticker, etc..



David

Getting back to the original question: I recommend finding a machine, if 
possible, with a built-in DVD drive.
It makes installing a new system straightforward, and allows you to copy 
media, including music for

your car player, without having to buy an external usb dvd drive.
--doug

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[Pankaj Jangid]

IL Ka  writes:

> Nowadays you should have:
> * One screen and one display (DISPLAY=:0.0) unless you do something rare
> like Zaphod mode.
> * Use randr (either directly or with tools provided by your DE) to
> configure each monitor as different output

Clear. Thanks a lot.

> "Several screens" (original X solution) does not allow you to move windows
> between them (except several carefully written apps)

I remember experimenting with $DISPLAY, in my early days. It satisfies
the inner programmer but yes, the applications must be carefully written
for :0.0, :0.1, :1.0, :1.1, ...

-- 
Regards,
Pankaj Jangid

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Pankaj Jangid]

Dan Ritter  writes:

> All correct, except --
> if you have one of the specific combinations of AMD APU, AMD
> graphics card, and AMD-chipset motherboards that can do "Hybrid
> Crossfire" in which, surprise, the GPU integrated with the CPU
> can contribute to rendering each other's frame buffers. (I think
> it's always one specific direction, but am not sure.)

I guess it pays them (in money terms) to not come up with a standard
solutions.

But anyway, I have some spare GPUs from AMD (Radeon RX580) and am
planning go via Ryzen way. So I guess, I will be able to utilize the
things nicely now. Thanks.

-- 
Regards,
Pankaj Jangid

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Pankaj Jangid]

Stefan Monnier  writes:

>> Each monitor will only use the GPU that it is connected to.
>
> FWIW, I find the terminology used in the graphics card PC industry very
> confusing.  In my view, there are 4 different kinds of components to
> a graphic system:
>
> ...
>
> Most PC's "discrete" graphics cards include all 4 components and they
> typically can't use the system's normal DRAM in the same way they use
> their own video RAM.  This means that you often can't use your discrete
> GPU to render a 3D scene into the frame buffer used by the DE of your
> integrated graphics card.
>

Thanks for detailed explanation, Stefan. Your advice will definitely
save my money. As I have not yet purchased a motherboard, but I have a
couple of GPUs lying around unused. I am building a new workstation,
taking clues from this list.

-- 
Regards,
Pankaj Jangid

Re: Is there an alternative filesystem hierarchy that could be adapted to Debian.

[Weaver]

On 10-03-2021 13:08, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z wrote:
> Hello. 
> 
> While I was making my research before installing Debian
> I saw that the filesystem hierarchy is not so friendly
> (I'm new to GNU/Linux operating systems).

Yes, you are.
There is nothing `unfriendly' concerning the filesystem heirarchy.
What negative experiences have you had with it, so far, that inclines
you to this point of view?

> I saw there was a distribution called GoboLinux which
> addressed that inconvenience, but according to a DistroWatch review,
> it is not usable at all.

Again, there is no inconvenience.
 
> In my opinion, I think there would be no need to make another distro
> to make such customizations to the system, it would be better
> if it were implemented at a package level on an existing distro. 
> 
> So, my question is: Is there a way to put another, more friendly,
> filesystem hierarchy to Debian, like the one of GoboLinux?

If Gobolinux is not usable, as you say, why do you seek to emulate it?
The current file system set up is far from `unfriendly', in my
experience.
Cheers!

Harry.

-- 
`The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but
 because of those who look on without doing anything'.
 -- Albert Einstein

Re: Could KDE work adequately on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and an Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 2.33 GHz?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 9:34 PM Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z 
wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I would like to install Debian 10 with the KDE Plasma task
> on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33 GHz,
> it doesn't have a GPU.
> Do you think it would run without problems
> or would it be slow and laggy?
>
> I would not do that. I run xfce under Debian 10.4 in 8GB, it's very light
weight for a window manager. MUCH lighter than KDE. But still a little slow
sometimes, with more than a few apps open SubCommandante Geovanis


> Thanks in advance for your answers.
>

Could KDE work adequately on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and an Intel Core 2 Duo processor @ 2.33 GHz?

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

Hello.

I would like to install Debian 10 with the KDE Plasma task
on a PC with 4 GB of RAM and Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33 GHz,
it doesn't have a GPU.
Do you think it would run without problems
or would it be slow and laggy?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Is there an alternative filesystem hierarchy that could be adapted to Debian.

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

Hello.

While I was making my research before installing Debian
I saw that the filesystem hierarchy is not so friendly
(I'm new to GNU/Linux operating systems).
I saw there was a distribution called GoboLinux which
addressed that inconvenience, but according to a DistroWatch review,
it is not usable at all.

In my opinion, I think there would be no need to make another distro
to make such customizations to the system, it would be better
if it were implemented at a package level on an existing distro.

So, my question is: Is there a way to put another, more friendly,
filesystem hierarchy to Debian, like the one of GoboLinux?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

>> That thing of no software updates is very weird.
>> Windows 7 is many years old yet I can still use the latest version of
Firefox.
>
> Yes, but you can't run the latest Chrome on the Windows XP. And you can't
run it on Pentium 3 (because it doesn't support the latest SSE4).
> Modern software needs a modern OS and modern hardware.
>
> Microsoft has much more resources than Debian team, so they can provide
support much longer than Debian.
> This is because of money Microsoft gets for their products. But Debian is
free. Maintainers are volunteers. They simply do not have enough time to
spend it on backporting software to the ten years old distro..
>
> Sometimes software can't run on modern Windows, and Microsoft creates
shims for it (you can google for that term).
> So, they have hacks saying "if this app is called [some_app_name], change
API behaviour to support it".
>
> Linux kernel ABI is backward compatible ("We do not break the user land"
(c) Linus Torvalds): that means old software should run on the latest
kernel, but not vice versa.
> But software also depends on libraries, and libraries are not always
backward compatible.
>
> The Debian team guarantees that software installed with package manager
(apt and friends) should run fine.
> You can try to download the latest Firefox and run it on Debian 8, but
there are no guarantees for it to work.
>
> Debian has thing called LTS:
> https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
>
> People who really need long LTS use commercial distros like Redhat. But
IMHO it doesn't make any sense to use it unless you run a business that
depends on it.
> For desktop I recommend to use the "stable" version of Debian and upgrade
it every several years.
> (I now run bullseye which is the "testing" version, but it will become
stable in the next month or so: not a bleeding edge, but pretty modern and
stable at the same time)
>
>> Isn't there a way to update user programs without updating
>> the operating system itself.
>
>
> Classic UNIX and Linux approach is to install everything via package
managers and use the latest version available in package manager for the
certain OS version.
> There are modern ways to install software along with all its dependencies
much like Windows people do.
> Canonical (the company that runs Ubuntu) provides so-called "snaps".
> There is also "docker": a tool that downloads all dependencies and only
depends on your kernel.
> But again: the latest version of Firefox MAY need something that the
ancient kernel simply doesn't provide.
>
> The safest way to use Debian is to:
> * Run "stable" version on Debian
> * Upgrade it to the next "stable" once Debian team releases it
> * Install everything from the package manager.
>
> It could happen that you wouldn't be able to install the latest version
of software released last week, but on the other hand you will be sure that
this software was tested and it is stable and compatible with everything
else in your system and there are a lot of people who run the same version
of this software (along with all other libraries and the kernel) on their
production servers, so everything is rock-solid.

Well, thanks for your sincerity.  Now I understands things a bit better.
I think I will be installing Debian 10 then.
Thank you and thanks everyone else for your help.

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[David Christensen]

On 3/9/21 4:25 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:50 PM David Christensen 
wrote:


On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:

On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <



What model mac?



It's a mac pro.



I looked around on the box and did not see any writing or engraving.

However, i was wrong about copying from the gui.  It is possible to copy
some of the identifying strings, although naturally i would prefer to use
the command line to get the info.

The model is "HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH41N", revision "PQ04".  It is from a long
time ago (at least 13 years old), but the machine still mostly runs fine
for what we use it for.   It is all original equipment except for the disk
drives, one of which is an SSD.  At the time i already did not like to buy
into closed technology but circumstances forced my hand, or so i thought.
For a job i had a few years ago i was issued a much newer mac, a laptop,
which was very fancy, but also had trouble with my modem router [i do not
have that laptop, so i don't know about the model].  Separating the modem
router from the box with a switch does not help, but it does work on a
separate LAN.  The ethernet hardware is identified as PCI, Intel 82574L.
There are two ports.

So the situation is not exactly ideal, but i can live with it.

And thanks for your help and ideas! :) :)



Look at:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201581

https://everymac.com/mac-identification/index-how-to-identify-my-mac.html


13+ years old -- Wikipedia says it is a first generation Mac Pro and 
cannot be upgraded to the current macOS:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_pro


If you cannot upgrade it to the current macOS (11.2.2), I would sell it. 
 If you need an Apple computer, get a newer one that supports the 
current macOS.



David

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[IL Ka]

>
> That thing of no software updates is very weird.
> Windows 7 is many years old yet I can still use the latest version of
> Firefox.
>
Yes, but you can't run the latest Chrome on the Windows XP. And you can't
run it on Pentium 3 (because it doesn't support the latest SSE4).
Modern software needs a modern OS and modern hardware.

Microsoft has much more resources than Debian team, so they can provide
support much longer than Debian.
This is because of money Microsoft gets for their products. But Debian is
free. Maintainers are volunteers. They simply do not have enough time to
spend it on backporting software to the ten years old distro..

Sometimes software can't run on modern Windows, and Microsoft creates shims
for it (you can google for that term).
So, they have hacks saying "if this app is called [some_app_name], change
API behaviour to support it".

Linux kernel ABI is backward compatible ("We do not break the user land"
(c) Linus Torvalds): that means old software should run on the latest
kernel, but not vice versa.
But software also depends on libraries, and libraries are not always
backward compatible.

The Debian team guarantees that software installed with package manager
(apt and friends) should run fine.
You can try to download the latest Firefox and run it on Debian 8, but
there are no guarantees for it to work.

Debian has thing called LTS:
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

People who really need long LTS use commercial distros like Redhat. But
IMHO it doesn't make any sense to use it unless you run a business that
depends on it.
For desktop I recommend to use the "stable" version of Debian and upgrade
it every several years.
(I now run bullseye which is the "testing" version, but it will become
stable in the next month or so: not a bleeding edge, but pretty modern and
stable at the same time)

Isn't there a way to update user programs without updating
> the operating system itself.
>

Classic UNIX and Linux approach is to install everything via package
managers and use the latest version available in package manager for the
certain OS version.
There are modern ways to install software along with all its dependencies
much like Windows people do.
Canonical (the company that runs Ubuntu) provides so-called "snaps".
There is also "docker": a tool that downloads all dependencies and only
depends on your kernel.
But again: the latest version of Firefox MAY need something that the
ancient kernel simply doesn't provide.

The safest way to use Debian is to:
* Run "stable" version on Debian
* Upgrade it to the next "stable" once Debian team releases it
* Install everything from the package manager.

It could happen that you wouldn't be able to install the latest version of
software released last week, but on the other hand you will be sure that
this software was tested and it is stable and compatible with everything
else in your system and there are a lot of people who run the same version
of this software (along with all other libraries and the kernel) on their
production servers, so everything is rock-solid.

Re: A suggestion to multiply your users

[Brett Pierce]

Thanks guys. Fortunately I have a computer games programming son who is all
over Linux. I'll get him to help.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021, 10:34 am Michael Grant,  wrote:

> Brett,
>
> Dan's exactly correct:
>
> > Debian is a Linux distribution -- a collection of software that
> > works together as a complete operating system plus applications.
>
> A Linux distribution can run programs written to run in Linux of which
> Inkscape is but one of those programs.  The Debian users on this list
> did not write it.
>
> Debian is geeky and this makes it easy and clear for us who use it.
>
> There are a ton of other Linux distributions that are based on Debian
> that may be more suited to a non geek and still you can run all the
> same software.
>
> (And there's a ton of other Linux distributions that are not based on
> Debian too, oh so many to choose from!)
>
> Do a search for 'linux distributions based on debian' in your favorite
> search engine.  There's a wikipedia page here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Debian-based_distributions
>
> Ubuntu is certainly one of the most popular.  They all look and feel a
> bit different, it gets down to personal preference and how easy one is
> for you to use.
>
> Many of these off shoots of Debian are aimed at non geeky people.
>
> Think of Debian as a platform that these other things are built on.
> Debian itself is built on Linux, GNU, and a many tools and utilities.
> Layer on layer if you may.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Michel Grant
>

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[mick crane]

On 2021-03-09 12:48, Pankaj Jangid wrote:

deloptes  writes:


Now, should I connect the monitor to the motherboard video-out or
should I use GPU’s output? Suppose the OS (Debian GNU/Linux in this
case) is fully configured to utilize the GPUs i.e. drivers etc. are 
set
up. Will the graphic system be able to utilize the GPUs irrespective 
of

where I have connected the monitor?


I am not an expert in Wayland, but X is able to utilize any GPU in any
number.  If it does not this automatically you have to manually
configure the server.  There are numerous guides on the internet.


Okay. So, this is possible. But my doubt remains. See below.

Last but not least - why many GPUs but one monitor? It makes no sense. 
It
should use the one where the monitor is attached, but usually monitors 
have

more inputs, which you can utilize.


I’ll be using multiple monitors but my original doubt was this. If I am
not connecting a monitor to GPU output, will I not be utilizing its
power for (this) display?  Assuming, I have configured X to utilize all
the GPUs for number crunching. Should it make any difference where I am
connect the monitor? What will be the highest available resolution? 
Will

it depend on where I have connected?


you can use each output on each GPU for a separate monitor so 2 GPUs can 
have 4 monitors.
I did it with 3 monitors faffing with the xorg.conf. Maybe now it just 
does it.

mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[IL Ka]

> Felix Miata wrote:
>
> > Clear as mud.
> >
> > Monitor = display. This is physical.
> >
> > Screen for X purposes is comprised of from 1 to N displays aka 1 to N
> > monitors, and most often is. It's a logical construct in which displayed
> > output can be either mirrored (cloned) or discrete (unique).
> >
>
> Not exactly - it utilizes the device and AFAIR if you have multihead GPU,
> you could have more than one screens with more than one monitors and define
> there whatever acceptable displays you can define.
>


X11 terminology is complex and bloated with 30 years old poorly named
abstractions.

I suggest to read this : https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Multihead
Especially funny is that term "display" has different meaning in xorg.conf
(screen's width and depth) and X11 protocol (collection of screens:
DISPLAY=display.screen)

Nowadays you should have:
* One screen and one display (DISPLAY=:0.0) unless you do something rare
like Zaphod mode.
* Use randr (either directly or with tools provided by your DE) to
configure each monitor as different output

RandR solves most issues. Other approaches are outdated: Xinerama requires
manual configuration and doesn't support different resolutions without of
"dead zones"
"Several screens" (original X solution) does not allow you to move windows
between them (except several carefully written apps)

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Dan Hitt]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 3:50 PM David Christensen 
wrote:

> On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:
> >> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
>
>  What model mac?
>
> >>> It's a mac pro.
>
> >> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
> >> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
> >> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
> >> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..
>
> > I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
> > there
> > a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
> > ('uname' only
> > identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu'
> command.)
>
>
> The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a
> nameplate, a sticker, etc..
>
>
Hi David,

Thanks for your mail.

I looked around on the box and did not see any writing or engraving.

However, i was wrong about copying from the gui.  It is possible to copy
some of the identifying strings, although naturally i would prefer to use
the command line to get the info.

The model is "HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH41N", revision "PQ04".  It is from a long
time ago (at least 13 years old), but the machine still mostly runs fine
for what we use it for.   It is all original equipment except for the disk
drives, one of which is an SSD.  At the time i already did not like to buy
into closed technology but circumstances forced my hand, or so i thought.
For a job i had a few years ago i was issued a much newer mac, a laptop,
which was very fancy, but also had trouble with my modem router [i do not
have that laptop, so i don't know about the model].  Separating the modem
router from the box with a switch does not help, but it does work on a
separate LAN.  The ethernet hardware is identified as PCI, Intel 82574L.
There are two ports.

So the situation is not exactly ideal, but i can live with it.

And thanks for your help and ideas! :) :)


>
> David
>
>

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. You are correct that 9 is still
> getting support, especially security updates. However, older versions
> of Debian don't get newer versions of the software. Not all security
> fixes can be backported. So there is a slow, imperceptible gap between
> older versions and newer. You are almost certainly just fine on 9 now,
> and will be until LTS support ends. But 10 will be more secure at some
> point. Right now, it's a judgment call you'll have to make.

Well, I could try to wait a little with Debian 9 as I did with Windows 7.

That thing of no software updates is very weird.
Windows 7 is many years old yet I can still use the latest version of
Firefox.
Isn't there a way to update user programs without updating
the operating system itself.  I read there was something called backports,
but the warning about instability just terrifies me;
I know more or less how to fix Windows, but not Debian.

Re: Re: How to set Upstream and Downstream Bandwidth in load balance router if the speed varies?

[Markos]

Markos wrote:


I'm a Debian user and have already configured a router TL-R470T+ to connect
with 2 providers (by PPPoE and dynamic link). And I'm using the TL-WR841ND
V10 router only as an access point.

Now I'm in doubt as to how I will set the Upstream and Downstream Bandwidth
for each ISP if every time I do a test (for example on www.speedtest.net
) I find a different speed that can vary from 2 to
20 Mbps?



This isn't really a Debian issue, but let me take a stab at it:



Disconnect network A. Run a speed test.



Connect network B, disconnect network A. Run a speed test.



Connect network A again, and now you have values for A and B to
plug into your router.



-dsr-


Hi Dan, Yes, you are right, it is not a specific Debian issue.But I 
don't know where to ask for help. I'm having trouble finding reliable 
answers to configure this router.There are many videos on Youtube but 
with contradictory information.I searched on the TP-link website and 
posted a question on the forum but I didn't have an answer.I did what 
you suggested, but throughout the day the speed varies. So my question 
is, what a speed value mean if it varies throughout the day?Thank you 
for your attention.   
Markos

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I wouldn't know since I use XFCE4 everywhere, but the desktop
>> environment only has some impact.  When it comes to Firefox, the main
>> issue is Firefox itself and the pages you visit.
>
> I had trouble with Firefox in the past on Windows 7,
> I had to change to Chrome then.  Surprisingly,
> now Firefox is behaving relatively well.
>
> I thought I would not have the same problem changing from Windows to Debian.

I didn't mean to blame Firefox specifically.  It's just that nowadays
the simplest web-page showing you a 10-line message can't resist
connecting to about 100 different web sites and download a health number
of MB of images and other crap.

It's just as painful with any other browser (either because they
support all the needed feature, so they eat up all the available RAM of
my poor laptop, or because they don't support all those features, so
they're slim and efficient but the web-page doesn't display properly).


Stefan

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 19:44:44 -0400
Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z  wrote:

> > I recommend against Debian 9, as it is getting old. I generally
> > recommend keeping to the current Debian release for security
> > reasons.  
> 
> Hmm, I thought that Debian 9 received enough security updates, and it
> still have LTS and ELTS remaining.  I don't think it is older than
> Windows 7 (from 2007, if I remember well)

Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. You are correct that 9 is still
getting support, especially security updates. However, older versions
of Debian don't get newer versions of the software. Not all security
fixes can be backported. So there is a slow, imperceptible gap between
older versions and newer. You are almost certainly just fine on 9 now,
and will be until LTS support ends. But 10 will be more secure at some
point. Right now, it's a judgment call you'll have to make.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> Definitely not) Use the Desktop environment like lxde/lxqt: it uses
concepts you are already familiar with: Desktop, main menu, icons etc..

I used a Live CD with LXDE on the other PC,
it looked fine but it was a bit disappointing compared to Windows 7 Starter.

I could not install a firmware package
(yes, I have to or it will be no WiFi), because I could not make it work
without rebooting the PC.  The Live CD has its limitations.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> How much ram do you have?
> If it is 4Gb or less you should probably use i386 instead of the amd64
version of Debian.

Yes, I was reading the amd64 version because I was also
attempting to install Debian on a 4GB and Intel Core 2 Duo vPro
desktop PC, which I thought could run Debian 10 with KDE.

> I'd start with Debian 10 and LXDE or LxQt:
> https://opensource.com/article/19/12/lxqt-lxde-linux-desktop
>
> and switch to the Debian 9 only if they work really slow.

Sounds reasonable, but I would prefer to not download
4 GB of the DVD image twice, my internet connection is not so fast.

> Desktop environment and Linux kernel are not the only CPU and memory
consumers.
> Modern browsers and modern websites are heavy. I am not sure if
average site works well with Firefox that runs on Pineview, but it is worth
trying.

It works well on Windows if you don't have too much tabs opened at the same
time.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[deloptes]

IL Ka wrote:

> By the way: some people use bare window managers instead of full-fledged
> desktop environments.
> 
>> Some window managers (like TWM) can run on 8MB of RAM:). The smallest one
> is called CWM (created by OpenBSD).
> https://packages.debian.org/buster/cwm
> 
> but it is for these old UNIX gurus who never leave the command line, not
> for regular users.

My grandma is not using any window manager :D - she's being managed as she
is 90y.o :D
Sorry I couldn't resist.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> By the way: some people use bare window managers instead of full-fledged
desktop environments.
>
> Some window managers (like TWM) can run on 8MB of RAM:). The smallest one
is called CWM (created by OpenBSD).
> https://packages.debian.org/buster/cwm
>
> but it is for these old UNIX gurus who never leave the command line, not
for regular users.

He, he.  I think it would not be a good idea, since I'm
changing from Windows to Debian.  I don't want to crash
my head against a wall trying to use my PC.

PS: sorry, I forgot to send this to the mailing list again.  GMail's reply
function doesn't help.

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[deloptes]

Felix Miata wrote:

> Clear as mud.
> 
> Monitor = display. This is physical.
> 
> Screen for X purposes is comprised of from 1 to N displays aka 1 to N
> monitors, and most often is. It's a logical construct in which displayed
> output can be either mirrored (cloned) or discrete (unique).
> 

Not exactly - it utilizes the device and AFAIR if you have multihead GPU,
you could have more than one screens with more than one monitors and define
there whatever acceptable displays you can define.

> IME, two cables simultaneously connected from one GPU to one display is a
> formula for failure, unless the display specifically supports multiple
> simultaneous discrete inputs, such as PBP, POP or PIP.

Why not? I can do HDMI or DVI as I like. The DVI delivers somehow better
quality - might be because the HDMI has a switch box in between - I suspect
in general being produced in China and it can not deliver full
1920x1080@75, or may be some other reason.
Anyway I kept the DVI and it works with both plugged in just fine - may be
over two years already.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[IL Ka]

>
> Thanks for your advice, I think my laptop is from 2013,
> but it is Pineview, id est Intel Atom.
>
How much ram do you have?
If it is 4Gb or less you should probably use i386 instead of the amd64
version of Debian.

I'd start with Debian 10 and LXDE or LxQt:
https://opensource.com/article/19/12/lxqt-lxde-linux-desktop

and switch to the Debian 9 only if they work really slow.

Desktop environment and Linux kernel are not the only CPU and memory
consumers.
Modern browsers and modern websites are heavy. I am not sure if
average site works well with Firefox that runs on Pineview, but it is worth
trying.

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[David Christensen]

On 3/9/21 3:15 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen wrote:

On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <



What model mac?



It's a mac pro.



When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
"assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..



I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
there
a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
('uname' only
identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' command.)



The identifying information should be engraved into the chassis, a 
nameplate, a sticker, etc..



David

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> Tell us more about your laptop. Have you tried booting a Debian live CD
> on it?

Well, my laptop is an Acer Aspire One D255E,
it has 1GB of RAM and an Intel Atom Inside N455
with Intel GMA integrated.

> I recommend against Debian 9, as it is getting old. I generally
> recommend keeping to the current Debian release for security reasons.

Hmm, I thought that Debian 9 received enough security updates, and it still
have LTS and ELTS remaining.  I don't think it is older than Windows 7
(from 2007, if I remember well)

> root@dragon:~# free -h
>totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache
 available
> Mem:   1.2Gi   306Mi   142Mi   6.0Mi   803Mi
 771Mi
> Swap:  975Mi   4.0Mi   971Mi
> Total: 2.2Gi   311Mi   1.1Gi
> root@dragon:~#

It doesn't look bad at all.  Windows usually have 100MiB to 200MiB free
when there are some programs open.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[IL Ka]

By the way: some people use bare window managers instead of full-fledged
desktop environments.

> Some window managers (like TWM) can run on 8MB of RAM:). The smallest one
is called CWM (created by OpenBSD).
https://packages.debian.org/buster/cwm

but it is for these old UNIX gurus who never leave the command line, not
for regular users.

Re: A suggestion to multiply your users

[deloptes]

Brett Pierce wrote:

> Can I suggest you get a straight-talking non-geek who knows nothing about
> your software and give them several scenarios (eg, A. You want to edit raw
> files for your photos.

Try Ubuntu with Gnome or KDE. It is more user friendly.

Re: A suggestion to multiply your users

[Michael Grant]

Brett,

Dan's exactly correct:

> Debian is a Linux distribution -- a collection of software that
> works together as a complete operating system plus applications.

A Linux distribution can run programs written to run in Linux of which
Inkscape is but one of those programs.  The Debian users on this list
did not write it.

Debian is geeky and this makes it easy and clear for us who use it.

There are a ton of other Linux distributions that are based on Debian
that may be more suited to a non geek and still you can run all the
same software.

(And there's a ton of other Linux distributions that are not based on
Debian too, oh so many to choose from!)

Do a search for 'linux distributions based on debian' in your favorite
search engine.  There's a wikipedia page here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Debian-based_distributions

Ubuntu is certainly one of the most popular.  They all look and feel a
bit different, it gets down to personal preference and how easy one is
for you to use.

Many of these off shoots of Debian are aimed at non geeky people.

Think of Debian as a platform that these other things are built on.
Debian itself is built on Linux, GNU, and a many tools and utilities.
Layer on layer if you may.

Hope this helps.

Michel Grant


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> IMHO: it is better to use the latest Debian even on the old laptop unless
your laptop is 15 years old.
>
> You can try LXDE: https://wiki.debian.org/LXDE
> It is very lightweight:)
>
> "tasksel" (tool that runs when you install Debian) asks you which DE to
enable. You can choose LXDE there.
>
> I run it on my 2011 laptop (sandy bridge) and it works very well.

Thanks for your advice, I think my laptop is from 2013,
but it is Pineview, id est Intel Atom.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Keith Bainbridge]

G'day

My 2 cents worth, Deb10 with either Mate or xfce desktop. KDE/plasma is great, 
but I find it slow to load on i7 with 8G ram and add. It has more config 
options, but I've gotten over that.   Oh, I don't boot often, but I've grown 
impatient.

As I said, my 2 cents worth.


-- 
Keith BAINBRIDGE 
keith.bainbridge.3...@gmx.com 

Sent from my Aphone

On 9 March 2021 10:30:15 pm UTC, Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z  
wrote:
>Hello.
>
>I'm new to GNU/Linux systems.  I would like to know
>why the RAM requirements showed here:
>https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html
>are double the size of those displayed here:
>https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch03s04.html.en
>
>Excuse my ignorance, I have a bit old laptop and I don't know if it would
>be better
>to have Debian 9 so I can, possibly, load KDE on it, or instead Debian 10
>but having to limit myself to lightweight applications only.
>
>Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you could give me.
>
>PS: If I'm not using the mailing list properly, let me know,
>I never used any before.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 18:30:15 -0400
Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z  wrote:

> I'm new to GNU/Linux systems.  I would like to know
> why the RAM requirements showed here:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html
> are double the size of those displayed here:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch03s04.html.en

Curious. You seem to have hit two different version of the same page,
with one change.

> 
> Excuse my ignorance, I have a bit old laptop and I don't know if it
> would be better
> to have Debian 9 so I can, possibly, load KDE on it, or instead
> Debian 10 but having to limit myself to lightweight applications only.

Tell us more about your laptop. Have you tried booting a Debian live CD
on it?

I have a Lenovo R51, with 1.2 GB of physical memory, and it runs at an
acceptable pace. However, I use XFCE rather than KDE. It is a much
lighter weight desktop and that helps in a constrained environment. You
might consider that.

I have four FIT-PC 1s, each with 223Mi of main memory, and they do just
fine headerless (with no desk-top). So you should be able to safely
undershoot the higher requirement version.

I recommend against Debian 9, as it is getting old. I generally
recommend keeping to the current Debian release for security reasons.


root@dragon:~# free -h
   totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:   1.2Gi   306Mi   142Mi   6.0Mi   803Mi   771Mi
Swap:  975Mi   4.0Mi   971Mi
Total: 2.2Gi   311Mi   1.1Gi
root@dragon:~# 


> 
> Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you could give me.
> 
> PS: If I'm not using the mailing list properly, let me know,
> I never used any before.

You are doing fine so far.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> G'day
>
> My 2 cents worth, Deb10 with either Mate or xfce desktop. KDE/plasma is
great, but I find it slow to load on i7 with 8G ram and add. It has more
config options, but I've gotten over that. Oh, I don't boot often, but I've
grown impatient.
>
> As I said, my 2 cents worth.

Wow, it looks like KDE is really bloated.
I was thinking that LXQt would be an acceptable alternative,
at least it has a configuration center.
Honestly, I would not like to have to use the command line
everyday to adjust some setting.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[IL Ka]

>
> Excuse my ignorance, I have a bit old laptop and I don't know if it would
> be better
> to have Debian 9 so I can, possibly, load KDE on it, or instead Debian 10
> but having to limit myself to lightweight applications only.
>
IMHO: it is better to use the latest Debian even on the old laptop unless
your laptop is 15 years old.

You can try LXDE: https://wiki.debian.org/LXDE
It is very lightweight:)

"tasksel" (tool that runs when you install Debian) asks you which DE to
enable. You can choose LXDE there.

I run it on my 2011 laptop (sandy bridge) and it works very well.

Re: A suggestion to multiply your users

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 04:05:38 PM Brett Pierce wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Really looking forward to trying out this tool. 

Are you talking about Debian?

> Only... even though I've
> been on computers since late 1980s but I'm not a geek - but not entirely
> stupid either. Your website is really intimidating and confusing.  

... and debian.org?


> It's
> very geeky to me, which means to many others as well. I was able to find
> that there are two versions (at least) - one to use with Gimp, the other to
> use without it (I already use an old photoshop version CS3.) I'm on your
> download page for standalone. I can't find where to download. The page is,
> like your site, confusing. There are lots of individual bits and pieces to
> download - but seriously they sound like extras. But it's not clear. I'm
> struggling to download, to know what to do. I'm from outside your
> world, all those different terms are not my language. My mind just says...
> no idea what this is or whether I need it.
> 
> Can I suggest you get a straight-talking non-geek who knows nothing about
> your software and give them several scenarios (eg, A. You want to edit raw
> files for your photos. You want to download this to do it. B. You want to
> edit raw files but you already have an image editor like photoshop) and no
> help and watch them figure it out? No help, no tips. Get their feedback. On
> the basis of how simple or not it is for them, redesign your site in Plain
> English, decluttered, clear instructions for the basics in big headings,
> and separate the more geeky stuff into sections with clear headings that
> help people like me to ignore it unless I am looking for a, b or c? Two
> levels - clear obvious instructions and information for those who just want
> to get started. Level two - lots of detailed choices and options for people
> who know what they're looking for.
> 
> I'll go back to trying to work out how to download. I'm sure I'll solve it,
> but it should be brain dead obvious.
> Your software is precisely what I'm after - looking forward to trying it
> out. I spent the time here writing this to support what you're doing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brett
> ᐧ

Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of …

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 03:54:18 PM David Wright wrote:
> On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 08:12:47 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> > service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> > ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> > 
> > I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if the
> > ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
> 
> You may well have login authentication. Perhaps you have the
> credentials configured in the router, and forgotten that they're
> there.

Well, I know I have login authentication, and the credentials in one case are 
in the router (the modem is in bridge mode or whatever the right term is), and 
in the other case, the credentials are in the modem (which also does the 
routing), with a switch downstream (to send Ethernet to 3 different parts of my 
home).

But, I don't know (but don't think) that the ISP sees the MAC address of 
either the modem in one case, or the router in the other case (or the modem in 
"bridge mode").

But, my comment was only intended to be a data point, so unless someone knows 
whether or not the MAC address is seen by the ISP, there is no need to follow 
up on this (that I can see).

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Dan Hitt]

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:12 PM David Christensen 
wrote:

> On 3/7/21 7:09 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:25 PM David Christensen <
> dpchr...@holgerdanske.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 3/7/21 4:45 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:27 PM David Christensen <
> >> dpchr...@holgerdanske.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  On 3/7/21 4:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> >>
> > The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is
> electrically
> > incompatible with one of my computers.  That computer freezes or
>  otherwise
> > misbehaves when one of its ethernet ports is on a network which also
> >> has
> > the modem-router.
> >>
>  What a PITA.  Have you tried putting a network interface card into the
>  problematic computer so that you can run one LAN?
> 
> >>>
> >>> Actually, the problematic computer has two ethernet ports on it, but it
> >>> is a mac, so not so clear how to get a network interface card into it.
> >>
> >>
> >> What model mac?
> >>
> >
> > It's a mac pro.
>
>
> Marketing terms are for separating the rubes from their dollars:
>
> "it is a mac"
>
> "It's a mac pro"
>

The separation was done successfully :) :)


>
>
> When posting on a technical mailing list, please include the relevant
> engineering identifiers when referring to hardware or software items --
> e.g. alphanumeric codes variously named "model number", "part number",
> "assembly number", "serial number", "architecture", "revision", etc..
> Doing so demonstrates your competence and your respect for the readers'
> time.
>

I don't have a good way to copy/paste information from the mac gui --- is
there
a shell command that i can run that could identify the exact model?
('uname' only
identifies the software; the mac does not seem to have a 'lscpu' command.)

And thanks for your help!


>
>
> David
>
>

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> Debian testing.

I see that you use the latest version of the system,
maybe it could have some impact on performance.

> I wouldn't know since I use XFCE4 everywhere, but the desktop
> environment only has some impact.  When it comes to Firefox, the main
> issue is Firefox itself and the pages you visit.

I had trouble with Firefox in the past on Windows 7,
I had to change to Chrome then.  Surprisingly,
now Firefox is behaving relatively well.

I thought I would not have the same problem changing from Windows to Debian.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 09 Mar 2021 17:46:16 -0500
Stefan Monnier  wrote:

> I have a 1GB laptop here
> (with XFCE4) and using Firefox on it has been painful for many
> years already.

There is a bug in the 686 version of vivaldi, or I would recommend it
to you. The amd64 version is great for low memory applications where
firefox is a pita, like VMs.

https://vivaldi.net/

Available as a .deb.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of …

[IL Ka]

I will try to share my knowledge about DSL and DOCSIS (cable modems)
although it may be inaccurate and/or outdated and valid only for my country.

MAC address only exists in Ethernet networks or something that emulates it.
Ethernet (Level 2) networks are connected with Level 3 devices called
routers.
MAC address is only visible inside of one Ethernet network, so anyone on
the other side of the router doesn't know your MAC address.

Both DOCSIS (cable) modem and DSL modem can run in one of two modes:

* Router mode. In this mode it acts as a router (Level 3 device) and your
Ethernet traffic (Level 2) never goes to the ISP.
Your PC mac address is not important in this scenario.

* Bridge mode: modem forwards your Ethernet traffic to the ISP and your MAC
address may be important here (at least, your ISP may see it)

With DSL you have a modem (either standalone or built into a DSL router)
Your modem connects to your ISP's device (called DSLAM).

There is a protocol called ATM that runs on top of DSL.

ATM uses VPI and VCI to create a "virtual channel" between your modem and
ISP device.
These two numbers (VPI/VCI) are used to "address" a device inside of ISP's
ATM network.

Then, ATM creates a so-called AAL (ATM adaptation layer) to run some
protocol on top of it.

* It can run IP directly on top of an ATM. There is no MAC address here and
only router mode is supported.
* It can run PPP over ATM (PPPoA): again, no MAC address, much like dialup.
PPP runs some protocol to authenticate you (PAP, CHAP or some other). Only
router mode is supported.
* It can emulate Ethernet. It is called LANE. It uses a MAC address! In
bridge mode your MAC address is important. In router mode it is not.
* It can run PPP over emulated Ethernet (previous case but with PPP on top
of it). PPPoE. In bridge mode you run PPP on your PC and MAC address may be
important
(sometimes it is not not, if your ISP uses PAP or CHAP to authenticate
you). In router mode PPP runs on your modem and PC MAC address is
irrelevant.

Most ISPs in my country prefer to run PPP (ether over ATM (PPPoA) or over
emulated Ethernet using PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE))
because PPP is a convenient protocol for AAA (accounting authorization
authentication)

I've seen an ISP that uses PPTP (vpn) over IP over emulated Ethernet. Modem
in router mode provides your PC access to the network, and then you run VPN
client on your PC.
Again, ISP doesn't see your PC mac address.

https://flylib.com/books/3/206/1/html/2/images/0130938106/graphics/14fig02.gif

Honestly, I have never seen an ADSL ISP that cares about the MAC address.
Usually they are happy with PPP login/password.


With DOCSIS (cable modem) your modem connects to the ISP device named CMTS.
It then downloads configuration from ISP.
There is no MAC address at this moment.

Then, it switches to the one of the two following modes:
* Bridge mode: modem acts as bridge (ethernet switch). It forwards your
Ethernet
frames from your PC, so ISP is aware of your PC mac address.
In most cases it happens when you connect your PC to the Ethernet (RJ45)
port on your cable modem.

Almost always the MAC address is important in this case! You must tell your
ISP which MAC you are going to use.
Or you can change your NIC's mac address to the one ISP already knows about.

* Router mode: modem acts as router. It uses its internal MAC address
(written
on small white paper on the modem) and then forwards IP packets to your PC.
It happens when you connect your PC to the USB port of your modem.

Most DOCSIS ISPs in my country prefer bridge mode and ask for your MAC
address.

But if you connect WiFi router to your modem (so you have two different
devices) ISP only sees your router's mac address, not your PC address.
Remember: mac address never crosses your router because router terminates
level 2 (Ethernet) network.
https://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/cable/modems/ubr924/configuration/guide/scg924bc.html

Conclusion:

For bridge mode MAC address may be important (but with ADSL chances are
high that ISP uses PPP authentication (PAP, CHAP) and doesn't care about
MAC address).
For router mode your MAC address is never important

If you are using a Wifi router then your PC MAC is never important.

Typical setup in my country:
For DSL:  Wifi router with DSL modem built into it. It runs some kind of
PPP and doesn't care about your MAC address.
For DOCSIS: Cable modem in bridge mode + Wifi router. You must set your
Wifi router MAC address to the one ISP knows about. But your PC MAC is not
important.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I have a 1GB laptop here (with XFCE4) and using Firefox on it has
>> been painful for many years already.
> May I ask, what version of Debian do you use?

Debian testing.

> I have been reading throughout the Web that Xfce4 is not so
> lightweight as it was before.  Apparently, its performance is
> comparable to that of KDE or GNOME.

I wouldn't know since I use XFCE4 everywhere, but the desktop
environment only has some impact.  When it comes to Firefox, the main
issue is Firefox itself and the pages you visit.


Stefan

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

> I have a 1GB laptop here
> (with XFCE4) and using Firefox on it has been painful for many
> years already.

May I ask, what version of Debian do you use?

I have been reading throughout the Web
that Xfce4 is not so lightweight as it was before.
Apparently, its performance is comparable to that of KDE
or GNOME.

PS: sorry, I forgot to send this reply to the mailing list.

Re: Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm new to GNU/Linux systems.  I would like to know
> why the RAM requirements showed here:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html
> are double the size of those displayed here:
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch03s04.html.en

I think it just reflects the progressive increase of memory use of
"typical" desktop applications, including the desktop environment: that
doesn't mean the memory use really doubled, but they just chose to
increase the recommended memory in steps of x2: I have a 1GB laptop here
(with XFCE4) and using Firefox on it has been painful for many
years already.


Stefan

Hardware requirements between Debian 9 and 10

[Cmdte Alpha Tigre Z]

Hello.

I'm new to GNU/Linux systems.  I would like to know
why the RAM requirements showed here:
https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/ch03s04.en.html
are double the size of those displayed here:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/ch03s04.html.en

Excuse my ignorance, I have a bit old laptop and I don't know if it would
be better
to have Debian 9 so I can, possibly, load KDE on it, or instead Debian 10
but having to limit myself to lightweight applications only.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help you could give me.

PS: If I'm not using the mailing list properly, let me know,
I never used any before.

Re: A suggestion to multiply your users

[Dan Ritter]

Brett Pierce wrote: 
> Really looking forward to trying out this tool. Only... even though I've
> been on computers since late 1980s but I'm not a geek - but not entirely
> stupid either. Your website is really intimidating and confusing.  It's
> very geeky to me, which means to many others as well. I was able to find
> that there are two versions (at least) - one to use with Gimp, the other to
> use without it (I already use an old photoshop version CS3.)

This is not correct.

Debian is a Linux distribution -- a collection of software that
works together as a complete operating system plus applications.

In order to use it, you need to install it in such a manner that
it takes over your computer -- Windows does not run at the same
time. They can be installed together, but it is tricky.

> I'm on your
> download page for standalone. I can't find where to download. The page is,
> like your site, confusing. There are lots of individual bits and pieces to
> download - but seriously they sound like extras. But it's not clear. I'm
> struggling to download, to know what to do. I'm from outside your
> world, all those different terms are not my language. My mind just says...
> no idea what this is or whether I need it.

The simplest thing is to download a Debian Live image, which
will allow you to try out Debian without committing to a
permanent installation. You'll need to be able to burn a DVD or
have a 4GB or larger USB stick available.

The page for that is https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

and you almost certainly want to download a hybrid AMD64 image
from
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

If you don't know which to try, get 

https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-mate.iso

and burn it to a DVD or USB stick, then boot to it.

> 
> Can I suggest you get a straight-talking non-geek who knows nothing about
> your software and give them several scenarios (eg, A. You want to edit raw
> files for your photos. You want to download this to do it. B. You want to
> edit raw files but you already have an image editor like photoshop) and no
> help and watch them figure it out?

We understand how user experience works. You have a focus on a
particular task. Debian is a whole operating system, not just a
way to run a photo editor.

(If you just want to run GIMP, did you know that it's available
for Windows and macOS? Get it for free at https://www.gimp.org/
)

> the basis of how simple or not it is for them, redesign your site in Plain
> English, decluttered, clear instructions for the basics in big headings,
> and separate the more geeky stuff into sections with clear headings that
> help people like me to ignore it

That is probably not going to happen. While using Debian is
generally pretty easy, installing it is not -- though much
easier than it was, and certainly within the grasp of a
high-school student who is wiiling to put in the effort to read
the manual first.

That manual would be here:
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/index.en.html

-dsr-

Re: Fwd: mounten SD-kaartje zonder automounter

[Geert Stappers]

On Tue, Mar 09, 2021 at 01:28:21PM +0100, René Luijckx wrote:
> Van: Geert Stappers
> Date: zo 28 feb. 2021 om 13:18
> > 
> > knip
> > 
> > } Wat nu?
> > 
> > 
> > In een shell het mount commando uitvoeren. Dat wordt iets als
> > 
> >mount /dev/mmcblk0p1  /media/sdkaart
> > 
> > Preciesere informatie is te vinden
> > in de output van `mount` als er reeds succes is.
> > [0]
> > 
> > 
> > Groeten
> > Geert Stappers
> > 
> > [0] `mount` is high-tech,  wees nieuwsgierig, onderzoek het, stel vragen
> > 
> 
> Na opstart:
> 
> mount -l
  ...
> /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/SD CARD type vfat 
> (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,uid=1000,gid=1000,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,showexec,utf8,flush,errors=remount-ro,uhelper=udisks2)
>  [SD CARD]
> rene@dikke:~$
> 
> 
> Na insteken kaartje 2:
> 
> mount -l
  ...
> /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/NIKON D7000 type fuseblk 
> (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096,uhelper=udisks2)
>  [NIKON D7000]
> rene@dikke:~$
> 
> 
> Na unmount kaartje 2,
> insteken kaartje 1,
> kaartje wordt *niet* gemount:
> 
>  mount -l
> rene@dikke:~$
> 
> - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> 
>  Commando's als
> mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/NIKON D7000
> of
> mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/NIKON
> leiden alleen tot foutmeldingen dat betreffende map niet bestaat.
> 
> - - - - - -
> 
> rene@dikke:~$ mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/NIKON D7000
> bash: mount /dev/mmcblk0p1: No such file or directory
> rene@dikke:~$ mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/NIKON
> bash: mount /dev/mmcblk0p1: No such file or directory
> rene@dikke:~$
> 
> - - - - - - -
> 
> Ik laat het hierbij.

OK  (en er op terugkomen mag ook :-)
 

> Dank iedereen voor het meedenken en de moeite die er in gestoken is,

Dank voor de terugmelding



Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

A suggestion to multiply your users

[Brett Pierce]

Hi.

Really looking forward to trying out this tool. Only... even though I've
been on computers since late 1980s but I'm not a geek - but not entirely
stupid either. Your website is really intimidating and confusing.  It's
very geeky to me, which means to many others as well. I was able to find
that there are two versions (at least) - one to use with Gimp, the other to
use without it (I already use an old photoshop version CS3.) I'm on your
download page for standalone. I can't find where to download. The page is,
like your site, confusing. There are lots of individual bits and pieces to
download - but seriously they sound like extras. But it's not clear. I'm
struggling to download, to know what to do. I'm from outside your
world, all those different terms are not my language. My mind just says...
no idea what this is or whether I need it.

Can I suggest you get a straight-talking non-geek who knows nothing about
your software and give them several scenarios (eg, A. You want to edit raw
files for your photos. You want to download this to do it. B. You want to
edit raw files but you already have an image editor like photoshop) and no
help and watch them figure it out? No help, no tips. Get their feedback. On
the basis of how simple or not it is for them, redesign your site in Plain
English, decluttered, clear instructions for the basics in big headings,
and separate the more geeky stuff into sections with clear headings that
help people like me to ignore it unless I am looking for a, b or c? Two
levels - clear obvious instructions and information for those who just want
to get started. Level two - lots of detailed choices and options for people
who know what they're looking for.

I'll go back to trying to work out how to download. I'm sure I'll solve it,
but it should be brain dead obvious.
Your software is precisely what I'm after - looking forward to trying it
out. I spent the time here writing this to support what you're doing.

Thanks,
Brett
ᐧ

Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of …

[Nicholas Geovanis]

My sanity requires top-posting:
See your very last sentence:
You go to an HTTP port at a non-routable address which should be on the
box. Usually on a yellow sticker. Now I've never tried to program that
interaction but I bet it could be done. For comparison, biggish Juniper
routers are configured by salt/saltstack these days. Just like your linux
server farm.

But maybe start trying with wget or curl. Work your way up the language
hierarchy.  HTH.

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 2:54 PM David Wright  wrote:

> Change of topic overdue:
>
> On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 00:12:40 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> > David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):
> > > On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 21:37:37 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> >
> > >> Having != connected. The extras are spares. :)
> >
> > > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because it
> > > has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of the line.
> >
> > > (Similarly, if your modem were to burn out, which is what happened
> > > to mine after seven years.)
> >
> > Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing modems,
> and what
> > the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's still useful. If
> there's a
> > problem they or I think a modem switch might shed light on, I do the
> same.
>
> Perhaps I'll try that as things settle after the pandemic.
> I changed our modem within two hours, but that was with a visit
> to the office (2½ miles), and the replacement one is rented.
>
> I'll change it out when not every day is a zoom day. At the
> moment, the internet is still about as important as running
> water.
>
> On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 08:12:47 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> service
> > (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the ISP.
> (They were
> > both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> >
> > I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if the
> ISP
> > sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
>
> You may well have login authentication. Perhaps you have the
> credentials configured in the router, and forgotten that they're
> there.
>
> On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 13:35:18 (+), Joe wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:12:47 -0500 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> > > service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> > > ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> > >
> > > I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if
> > > the ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
> >
> > I used to change routers without telling anyone, but that was years ago.
>
> That doesn't add a lot of information as you've not mentioned
> the type of connection. (I presume router means a modem/router
> combination.)
>
> > As an anecdote, I recall a BT service/router which literally would not
> > work if it detected another NAT on the LAN. It was in a client's
> > network, and I had to reconfigure things to work without the Debian
> > server acting as a firewall. If it had been my network, the wretched
> > thing would have gone back instantly, my network runs through two NATs
> > and that isn't negotiable.
>
> I had a BT service briefly (replacing a plusnet service running over
> a BT line), and they supplied a Homehub. AFAICT the authentication, if
> any, was "burnt" into modem and router combination, and the T didn't
> allow for you to swap it out.
>
> On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 10:07:39 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >
> > You should be able to change the MAC used by your device, i.e. you
> > should be able to arrange for both devices to expose the same MAC so
> > your ISP won't notice the difference.
>
> Quite possibly, though I'd rather not have to do that if possible.
> As well as the MAC, there is also a Serial Number and a Modem Number,
> and AIUI the device logs changes such as these that are made, at
> least as long as they stick (perhaps until a factory reset?).
>
> What software would I need? For example, how would I alter the MAC
> address on this Cicso DPC3010 modem? If I connect a computer to its
> Ethernet port, all I see is the seething morass called the Internet.
> How do I talk to it, ie to the modem itself?
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[Felix Miata]

deloptes composed on 2021-03-09 19:43 (UTC+0100):

> AFAIR A screen will be assigned to the controller/GPU. then to each output a
> Monitor and Display will be assigned.

> As you know there are few options how it can be handled (Extend/Clone).
> The resolution depends on the quality of the cards.

> I have only one integrated intel with DVI and HDMI. So I have one screen and
> one Monitor, but both DVI and HDMI are connected.
> Because I have configured Extend per default, I see the login screen only on
> the DVI display and the extention on the other.

Clear as mud.

Monitor = display. This is physical.

Screen for X purposes is comprised of from 1 to N displays aka 1 to N monitors,
and most often is. It's a logical construct in which displayed output can be
either mirrored (cloned) or discrete (unique).

IME, two cables simultaneously connected from one GPU to one display is a 
formula
for failure, unless the display specifically supports multiple simultaneous
discrete inputs, such as PBP, POP or PIP.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion,
is based on faith, not on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[David Wright]

On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 11:59:35 (-0500), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 09 March 2021 08:12:47 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:12:40 AM Felix Miata wrote:
> > > David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):
> > > > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > > > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > > > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because
> > > > it has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of
> > > > the line.
> > >
> > > Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing
> > > modems, and what the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's
> > > still useful. If there's a problem they or I think a modem switch
> > > might shed light on, I do the same.
> >
> > I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> > service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> > ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> >
> > I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if
> > the ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
> 
> Generally they do, I too have 2 routers, and own them both, but one has 
> the others MAC cloned into it, so my supposedly volatile ipv4 address 
> has been fixed for over a decade, making namecheap registration of the 
> link in the sig a no-brain-er.

I was under the impression (since 25 May 2019) that your router(s) was
connected to the internet through an ISP-supplied cable modem. Is that
not correct? I've been talking about switching between different *modems*.

Changing just the router, behind a modem, never gave me any cause for
concern about the ISP.

Cheers,
David.

Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of …

[David Wright]

Change of topic overdue:

On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 00:12:40 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):
> > On Sun 07 Mar 2021 at 21:37:37 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Having != connected. The extras are spares. :)
> 
> > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because it
> > has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of the line.
> 
> > (Similarly, if your modem were to burn out, which is what happened
> > to mine after seven years.)
> 
> Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing modems, and 
> what
> the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's still useful. If there's a
> problem they or I think a modem switch might shed light on, I do the same.

Perhaps I'll try that as things settle after the pandemic.
I changed our modem within two hours, but that was with a visit
to the office (2½ miles), and the replacement one is rented.

I'll change it out when not every day is a zoom day. At the
moment, the internet is still about as important as running
water.

On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 08:12:47 (-0500), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in service 
> (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the ISP.  (They 
> were 
> both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> 
> I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if the ISP 
> sees the MAC address on a DSL line.

You may well have login authentication. Perhaps you have the
credentials configured in the router, and forgotten that they're
there.

On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 13:35:18 (+), Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:12:47 -0500 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> > service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> > ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> > 
> > I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if
> > the ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
> 
> I used to change routers without telling anyone, but that was years ago.

That doesn't add a lot of information as you've not mentioned
the type of connection. (I presume router means a modem/router
combination.)

> As an anecdote, I recall a BT service/router which literally would not
> work if it detected another NAT on the LAN. It was in a client's
> network, and I had to reconfigure things to work without the Debian
> server acting as a firewall. If it had been my network, the wretched
> thing would have gone back instantly, my network runs through two NATs
> and that isn't negotiable.

I had a BT service briefly (replacing a plusnet service running over
a BT line), and they supplied a Homehub. AFAICT the authentication, if
any, was "burnt" into modem and router combination, and the T didn't
allow for you to swap it out.

On Tue 09 Mar 2021 at 10:07:39 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> You should be able to change the MAC used by your device, i.e. you
> should be able to arrange for both devices to expose the same MAC so
> your ISP won't notice the difference.

Quite possibly, though I'd rather not have to do that if possible.
As well as the MAC, there is also a Serial Number and a Modem Number,
and AIUI the device logs changes such as these that are made, at
least as long as they stick (perhaps until a factory reset?).

What software would I need? For example, how would I alter the MAC
address on this Cicso DPC3010 modem? If I connect a computer to its
Ethernet port, all I see is the seething morass called the Internet.
How do I talk to it, ie to the modem itself?

Cheers,
David.

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Richard Owlett]

On 03/09/2021 07:00 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 09 mar 21, 06:32:33, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 03/08/2021 10:18 AM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

before chasing down this rabbit hole, see if there is an
upgrade for your current kernel on the debian backports
site (for your processor and distribution type).  i just
had an issue with a new device not being recognized and
updated my kernel (for stretch) and it worked fine after
that.



The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical to be
kernel related.

If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the boot
process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.


Please also provide info like the exact stage of the boot process, any
(error) messages on screen, etc.

I've seen this symptom with a laptop before, though it would hang at the
BIOS stage (it was probably trying to boot from it), while you imply
it's later.

Kind regards,
Andrei



I think there are 2 separate states of the Linkzone may have when 
attempting to boot the PC.


1. The Linkzone is off but plugged into the PC.
   Boot appeared normal.

2. The Linkzone is turned on and I have waited for its indicator lights 
to indicate connection to network.
This time the the screen was looping very quickly repeating that it 
was attempting to reset a USB device.


What log should I look in for such an error message?
I know I've seen description of how to interpret the boot process to 
gather information. But where?


I suspect also there is a subset of Case 2 -- The LinkZone had been used 
to interact with a website before being plugged into the PC under test.


I recall having seen the "reset USB device" looping message before but 
sometimes there has just been a blank screen.


HTH

Re: Engegada aleatòria

[Narcis Garcia]

_
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't
masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator
should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
El 9/3/21 a les 17:53, Joan Albert ha escrit:
> Bona tarda,
> 
> Moltes gràcies per les respostes (Josep, Narcís i Xavier). Faig un nou
> correu comentant els diversos punts:
> 
>> Jo començaria per provar a triar diferent nucli d'inici, al gestor
>> d'arrencada (menú del GRUB). Si això fa variar el resultat, tindràs més
>> pistes sobre l'origen del problema.
> 
> Efectivament! Provant el nucli/kernel 4.19 funciona, mentre que amb el
> 5.10.0-4 actual segueixo tenint aquest problema intermitent. Sent així,
> quins podrien ser els següents passos?

Potser el sistema d'arrencada estigui corrupte o mal generat:
$ sudo update-initramfs -u -k all

Re: Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Camaleón]

El 2021-03-09 a las 18:19 +0100, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina escribió:

> El disco USB WD-Elements, se me cayó de una estantería.

Ugh...
 
> Al principio se montaba y le pasé
> 
> sudo badblocks -s -v -n -f /dev/sdb
> sudo testdisk
> etc
> 
> Parecía que iba bien pero tenía muchos errores de lectura. Lo arranque en
> el maldito Windows y me dijo que tenía que reparar la unidad. Le di a
> reparar y desde entonces no consigo montarla.
> 
> Abrí el disco duro para ver si el motor y el cabezal iban. No encontré nada
> raro
> 
> El motor gira pero no lo detecta como disco /dev/sdx ni lee la UUID
> 
> Como no lo detecta como /dev/sdx no puedo hacer nada

Quizá le falle la parte electrónica (controladora USB), no la mecánica, 
pero como esos discos «de marca» no se pueden abrir sin perder la 
garantía o romperlos... pues es un problema/dilema.

Prueba con la herranienta del fabricante, la de WD (para diagnosticar 
un fallo de SMART) o la de Seagate (SeaTools) para ver si al menos 
detecta la unidad correctamente.

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[deloptes]

Pankaj Jangid wrote:

> Okay. So, this is possible. But my doubt remains. See below.
> 
>> Last but not least - why many GPUs but one monitor? It makes no sense. It
>> should use the one where the monitor is attached, but usually monitors
>> have more inputs, which you can utilize.
> 
> I’ll be using multiple monitors but my original doubt was this. If I am
> not connecting a monitor to GPU output, will I not be utilizing its
> power for (this) display?  Assuming, I have configured X to utilize all
> the GPUs for number crunching. Should it make any difference where I am
> connect the monitor? What will be the highest available resolution? Will
> it depend on where I have connected?

AFAIR A screen will be assigned to the controller/GPU. then to each output a
Monitor and Display will be assigned.

As you know there are few options how it can be handled (Extend/Clone).
The resolution depends on the quality of the cards.

I have only one integrated intel with DVI and HDMI. So I have one screen and
one Monitor, but both DVI and HDMI are connected.
Because I have configured Extend per default, I see the login screen only on
the DVI display and the extention on the other.

I guess you must try out and perhaps manually fine tune this or that.

May be also copy/paste here the make/model of the hardware, so that someone
can give you more detailed information.

Re: How to set Upstream and Downstream Bandwidth in load balance router if the speed varies?

[Dan Ritter]

Markos wrote: 
> I'm a Debian user and have already configured a router TL-R470T+ to connect
> with 2 providers (by PPPoE and dynamic link). And I'm using the TL-WR841ND
> V10 router only as an access point.
> 
> Now I'm in doubt as to how I will set the Upstream and Downstream Bandwidth
> for each ISP if every time I do a test (for example on www.speedtest.net
> ) I find a different speed that can vary from 2 to
> 20 Mbps?

This isn't really a Debian issue, but let me take a stab at it:

Disconnect network A. Run a speed test.

Connect network B, disconnect network A. Run a speed test.

Connect network A again, and now you have values for A and B to
plug into your router.

-dsr-

How to set Upstream and Downstream Bandwidth in load balance router if the speed varies?

[Markos]

Hi,

I'm a Debian user and have already configured a router TL-R470T+ to 
connect with 2 providers (by PPPoE and dynamic link). And I'm using the 
TL-WR841ND V10 router only as an access point.


Now I'm in doubt as to how I will set the Upstream and Downstream 
Bandwidth for each ISP if every time I do a test (for example on 
www.speedtest.net ) I find a different speed 
that can vary from 2 to 20 Mbps?


Any guidance?

Thank you,
Akvo

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Dan Ritter]

Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
> On Ma, 09 mar 21, 09:54:22, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
 
> There's something curious about that, especially considering that the 
> PRO version (4350GE) is *not* OEM only!?

I don't think that's the case.

> It's almost like they confused the PRO with the retail version.
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't mind getting the 4350GE instead ;)
> 
> (unless it's too expensive, of course)

There are some 4xxx series processors available, but all of them
are grey-market stripped from industrial flat-packs, and come
with a gigantic price tag as well.

> There might be a chance to get it as a bundle from some "creative" 
> retailers, which would be fine as well if paired with my choice of 
> motherboard and as far as I understand there are retailers that do sell 
> OEM parts.

Right now, it appears to be a choice between HP and Dell unless
you want one of the laptop-class APUs (some of which are quite
nice) in which case Asus and Acer have some systems.

I'm currently at that point where my home desktop is still
perfectly capable, but notably slower than anything else in the
house. I'd really like to replace it with a microATX 4700G --
it's just that for the price I want to pay, HP wants to sell me
a crappy desktop with sub-par motherboard and NVMe, and very
likely a whiny power supply.

Time and patience should fix my problem.

-dsr-

Re: Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Joan Carles Albiñana Medina]

Lo consigo montar a veces y me sale esto, sdb sin particiones ni nada
Y no consigo hacer nada con el



AME FSTYPE LABEL UUID FSAVAIL FSUSE%
MOUNTPOINT
loop0
 squash  0   100%
/snap/core
loop1
 squash  0   100%
/snap/core
loop2
 squash  0   100%
/snap/core
loop3
 squash  0   100%
/snap/core
loop4
 squash  0   100%
/snap/free
loop5
 squash  0   100%
/snap/frea
loop6
 squash  0   100%
/snap/frea
loop7
 squash  0   100%
/snap/gifc
loop8
 squash  0   100%
/snap/gifc
loop9
 squash  0   100%
/snap/vlc/
loop10
 squash  0   100%
/snap/odio
loop11
 squash  0   100%
/snap/vlc/
loop12
 squash  0   100%
/snap/gnom
loop13
 squash  0   100%
/snap/gtk-
sda
├─sda1
│ntfs   Windows10
│ 000812030009D4E6   33,9G66%
/media/jua
├─sda2
│ntfs   Drives
│ 0A96B1A196B18DA7
├─sda3
│ntfs   COPIAS_W10
│ 88E42461E42453AA
├─sda4
│
├─sda5
│ext4 1ab44d0c-022f-4239-985e-d74026dab6bd  119,3G52% /
└─sda6
 swap 5a3774b0-d2ff-4740-80d0-2a43d1e7197a[SWAP]
sdb

El mar, 9 mar 2021 a las 18:19, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina (<
jcalbin...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> El disco USB WD-Elements, se me cayó de una estantería.
>
> Al principio se montaba y le pasé
>
> sudo badblocks -s -v -n -f /dev/sdb
> sudo testdisk
> etc
>
> Parecía que iba bien pero tenía muchos errores de lectura. Lo arranque en
> el maldito Windows y me dijo que tenía que reparar la unidad. Le di a
> reparar y desde entonces no consigo montarla.
>
> Abrí el disco duro para ver si el motor y el cabezal iban. No encontré
> nada raro
>
> El motor gira pero no lo detecta como disco /dev/sdx ni lee la UUID
>
> Como no lo detecta como /dev/sdx no puedo hacer nada
>
>
>
>
> El mar, 9 mar 2021 a las 17:50, Camaleón () escribió:
>
>> El 2021-03-09 a las 16:20 +, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina escribió:
>>
>> > Necesito recuperar informacion de un disco duro y no se monta como
>> /dev/sdx
>> > sino que aparece como tmpfs y punto de montaje /run/user/0
>> >
>> > ¿Alguna ayuda?
>> >
>> >
>> > [root@sysrescue ~]# df -h
>> ^
>>
>> Si estás usando alguna herramienta de rescate (livecd o entorno
>> mínimo) te lo habrá montado automáticamente. Desmonta manualmente y
>> monta donde prefieras para realizar el diagnóstico.
>>
>> > Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>> > dev 3.9G 0  3.9G   0% /dev
>> > run 3.9G   79M  3.8G   2% /run
>> > copytoram   5.8G  647M  5.2G  11% /run/archiso/copytoram
>> > cowspace2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /run/archiso/cowspace
>> > /dev/loop0  647M  647M 0 100% /run/archiso/sfs/airootfs
>> > airootfs2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /
>> > tmpfs   3.9G   85M  3.8G   3% /dev/shm
>> > tmpfs   4.0M 0  4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
>> > tmpfs   3.9G   40K  3.9G   1% /tmp
>> > tmpfs   3.9G  2.1M  3.9G   1% /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
>> > tmpfs   787M   36K  787M   1% /run/user/0
>>
>> Saludos,
>>
>> --
>> Camaleón
>>
>>

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Dan Ritter]

Stefan Monnier wrote: 
> > Each monitor will only use the GPU that it is connected to.
> 
> FWIW, I find the terminology used in the graphics card PC industry very
> confusing.  In my view, there are 4 different kinds of components to
> a graphic system:
> 
> - Memory: this can be dedicated "video RAM" or just a chunk of your
>   normal RAM, shared with the rest of your system.
> - Display engine (DE): This is the thing that reads a frame buffer
>   from some memory and sends the corresponding data out to your
>   monitor(s) via the output connector(s).
> - Video processing unit (VPU): This is a specialized element with
>   support for decoding/encoding some specific video and audio formats.
>   It takes its input from some memory and sends its output to some other
>   part of the memory.  E.g. when playing a video, it typically reads the
>   video from the system RAM and sends the decoded output to some (part
>   of a) frame buffer.
> - GPU: This is a processor dedicated to doing the kind of number
>   crunching used for 3D rendering.  It takes its inputs (e.g. textures
>   and scene descriptions) from some memory and outputs the rendered
>   scene to some (part of a) frame buffer.  Nowadays these processors
>   have grown sufficient functionality that they can be used for other
>   kinds of number crunching.
> 
> Most "integrated graphics" are composed of the last 3 components above
> and use the system's normal DRAM for their memory needs.
> 
> Most PC's "discrete" graphics cards include all 4 components and they
> typically can't use the system's normal DRAM in the same way they use
> their own video RAM.  This means that you often can't use your discrete
> GPU to render a 3D scene into the frame buffer used by the DE of your
> integrated graphics card.

All correct, except --
if you have one of the specific combinations of AMD APU, AMD
graphics card, and AMD-chipset motherboards that can do "Hybrid
Crossfire" in which, surprise, the GPU integrated with the CPU
can contribute to rendering each other's frame buffers. (I think
it's always one specific direction, but am not sure.)

-dsr-

Re: Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Joan Carles Albiñana Medina]

El disco USB WD-Elements, se me cayó de una estantería.

Al principio se montaba y le pasé

sudo badblocks -s -v -n -f /dev/sdb
sudo testdisk
etc

Parecía que iba bien pero tenía muchos errores de lectura. Lo arranque en
el maldito Windows y me dijo que tenía que reparar la unidad. Le di a
reparar y desde entonces no consigo montarla.

Abrí el disco duro para ver si el motor y el cabezal iban. No encontré nada
raro

El motor gira pero no lo detecta como disco /dev/sdx ni lee la UUID

Como no lo detecta como /dev/sdx no puedo hacer nada




El mar, 9 mar 2021 a las 17:50, Camaleón () escribió:

> El 2021-03-09 a las 16:20 +, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina escribió:
>
> > Necesito recuperar informacion de un disco duro y no se monta como
> /dev/sdx
> > sino que aparece como tmpfs y punto de montaje /run/user/0
> >
> > ¿Alguna ayuda?
> >
> >
> > [root@sysrescue ~]# df -h
> ^
>
> Si estás usando alguna herramienta de rescate (livecd o entorno
> mínimo) te lo habrá montado automáticamente. Desmonta manualmente y
> monta donde prefieras para realizar el diagnóstico.
>
> > Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > dev 3.9G 0  3.9G   0% /dev
> > run 3.9G   79M  3.8G   2% /run
> > copytoram   5.8G  647M  5.2G  11% /run/archiso/copytoram
> > cowspace2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /run/archiso/cowspace
> > /dev/loop0  647M  647M 0 100% /run/archiso/sfs/airootfs
> > airootfs2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /
> > tmpfs   3.9G   85M  3.8G   3% /dev/shm
> > tmpfs   4.0M 0  4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > tmpfs   3.9G   40K  3.9G   1% /tmp
> > tmpfs   3.9G  2.1M  3.9G   1% /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
> > tmpfs   787M   36K  787M   1% /run/user/0
>
> Saludos,
>
> --
> Camaleón
>
>

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 09 March 2021 08:12:47 rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:12:40 AM Felix Miata wrote:
> > David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):
> > > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because
> > > it has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of
> > > the line.
> >
> > Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing
> > modems, and what the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's
> > still useful. If there's a problem they or I think a modem switch
> > might shed light on, I do the same.
>
> I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
>
> I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if
> the ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.

Generally they do, I too have 2 routers, and own them both, but one has 
the others MAC cloned into it, so my supposedly volatile ipv4 address 
has been fixed for over a decade, making namecheap registration of the 
link in the sig a no-brain-er.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Engegada aleatòria

[Joan Albert]

Bona tarda,

Moltes gràcies per les respostes (Josep, Narcís i Xavier). Faig un nou
correu comentant els diversos punts:

> Jo començaria per provar a triar diferent nucli d'inici, al gestor
> d'arrencada (menú del GRUB). Si això fa variar el resultat, tindràs més
> pistes sobre l'origen del problema.

Efectivament! Provant el nucli/kernel 4.19 funciona, mentre que amb el
5.10.0-4 actual segueixo tenint aquest problema intermitent. Sent així,
quins podrien ser els següents passos?

> Un cop em va passar (bug de nucli, manca d'actualització de bios HP) que
> el nucli no progressava per culpa d'un dispositiu usb (càmera web Polycom).
> Per engegar l'havia de tenir desconnectat.
> Vaig actualitzar la bios i es va resoldre.

Perdó pel total desconeixement, però com s'actualitza la BIOS? :) He
buscat una mica d'informació, però no ho he vist massa clar, i
preferiria no provar coses sense estar-ne prou segur. Té alguna relació
amb el nucli?

> mira si tens al directori /boot/grub un fitxer amb el nom unicode.pf2, la
> corrupció d'aquest fitxer pot provocat l'aturada de l'arrencada.

He provat de fer el que comentaves, i ha estat en va. 
Probablement aquest fitxer no estigui corrupte.

Sembla que ens anem apropant poc a poc!

-- 
TS


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Re: Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Camaleón]

El 2021-03-09 a las 16:20 +, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina escribió:

> Necesito recuperar informacion de un disco duro y no se monta como /dev/sdx
> sino que aparece como tmpfs y punto de montaje /run/user/0
> 
> ¿Alguna ayuda?
> 
> 
> [root@sysrescue ~]# df -h
^

Si estás usando alguna herramienta de rescate (livecd o entorno 
mínimo) te lo habrá montado automáticamente. Desmonta manualmente y 
monta donde prefieras para realizar el diagnóstico.

> Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> dev 3.9G 0  3.9G   0% /dev
> run 3.9G   79M  3.8G   2% /run
> copytoram   5.8G  647M  5.2G  11% /run/archiso/copytoram
> cowspace2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /run/archiso/cowspace
> /dev/loop0  647M  647M 0 100% /run/archiso/sfs/airootfs
> airootfs2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /
> tmpfs   3.9G   85M  3.8G   3% /dev/shm
> tmpfs   4.0M 0  4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> tmpfs   3.9G   40K  3.9G   1% /tmp
> tmpfs   3.9G  2.1M  3.9G   1% /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
> tmpfs   787M   36K  787M   1% /run/user/0

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Parodper]

O 09/03/21 ás 17:20, Joan Carles Albiñana Medina escribiu:
Necesito recuperar informacion de un disco duro y no se monta como 
/dev/sdx sino que aparece como tmpfs y punto de montaje /run/user/0


¿Alguna ayuda?


[root@sysrescue ~]# df -h
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
dev             3.9G     0  3.9G   0% /dev
run             3.9G   79M  3.8G   2% /run
copytoram       5.8G  647M  5.2G  11% /run/archiso/copytoram
cowspace        2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /run/archiso/cowspace
/dev/loop0      647M  647M     0 100% /run/archiso/sfs/airootfs
airootfs        2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /
tmpfs           3.9G   85M  3.8G   3% /dev/shm
tmpfs           4.0M     0  4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs           3.9G   40K  3.9G   1% /tmp
tmpfs           3.9G  2.1M  3.9G   1% /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
tmpfs           787M   36K  787M   1% /run/user/0


¿Tienes algo en /etc/fstab? ¿Se monta por si solo si lo conectas antes 
de arrancar o ocurre cuando lo intentas montar manualmente? ¿Pasó algo 
con ese disco duro antes? ¿Puedes acceder al contenido desde esa carpeta?

Re: chrome me pone la pc demasiado lenta

[Marcelo Eduardo Giordano]

On 8/3/21 17:28, Juan Lavieri wrote:

Hola

El 8/3/2021 a las 1:15 p. m., Marcelo Eduardo Giordano escribió:

Muy útil tu comentario


Chromium y sus derivados poseen su propio administrador de tareas que 
se activa con la combinación  +   Allí se puede observar 
lo que consume cada pestaña individiualmente.






On 5/3/21 12:38, Camaleón wrote:

El 2021-03-05 a las 08:55 -0300, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano escribió:
Utilizo debian 10 xfce desde hace mucho tiempo. Desde hace algunos 
días
cuando abro Chrome (se abren como 30 páginas de inicio) el sistema 
se pone

muy inestable y lento.

Hombre... con 30 pestañas abiertas, pues es normal. Salvo que tengas
32 GiB de RAM física y un procesador medianamente reciente, notarás que
va lento.

Mira a ver si accediendo con un perfil nuevo, vacío, cargando esas
mismas 30 páginas te funciona igual. Si notas alguna diferencia, quizá
sea hora de limpiar el contenido que tienes almacenado en caché.


Me gustaría saber como solucionar este problema.

Probé de utilizar el comando "top". y me aparece varias sesiones de 
chrome
utilizando (no entiendo como puede ser, pero yo digo lo que sale) 
una sesión

55% del cpu, otra 50%, otra 45%, otra 40% y asi muchas.

Sí, es normal con los navegadores actuales. Cada pestaña consume
recursos de manera independiente, con Firefox pasa igual (tengo dos
pestañas abiertas):

sm01@stt008:~$ ps uax | grep -i firefox
sm01 10180  4.8  3.9 3010296 321768 ?  Sl   16:20 0:23 
/opt/firefox/firefox
sm01 10225  0.8  1.7 2761032 144176 ?  Sl   16:20 0:04 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -childID 1 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 1 -prefMapSize 255857 -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-appdir /opt/firefox/browser 10180 true tab
sm01 10270  0.1  1.0 2554700 87532 ?   Sl   16:20 0:00 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -childID 2 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 6182 -prefMapSize 255857 -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-appdir /opt/firefox/browser 10180 true tab
sm01 10311  0.1  1.1 2561996 96396 ?   Sl   16:20 0:00 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -childID 3 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 6970 -prefMapSize 255857 -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-appdir /opt/firefox/browser 10180 true tab
sm01 10362  0.0  0.3 338456 30104 ?    Sl   16:20 0:00 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-prefsLen 7036 -prefMapSize 255857 -appdir /opt/firefox/browser 
10180 true rdd
sm01 10510  6.2  2.8 2773444 233428 ?  Sl   16:26 0:07 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -childID 8 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 7265 -prefMapSize 255857 -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-appdir /opt/firefox/browser 10180 true tab
sm01 10551  0.7  0.7 2532176 63988 ?   Sl   16:28 0:00 
/opt/firefox/firefox-bin -contentproc -childID 9 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 7265 -prefMapSize 255857 -parentBuildID 20210222142601 
-appdir /opt/firefox/browser 10180 true tab
sm01 10591  0.0  0.0  12780  1008 pts/1    S+   16:28 0:00 grep 
-i firefox


top - 16:31:26 up  9:02,  1 user,  load average: 0,15, 0,16, 0,14
Tasks: 177 total,   2 running, 175 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  1,1 us,  0,2 sy,  0,0 ni, 98,7 id,  0,0 wa,  0,0 hi,  0,0 
si,  0,0 st
KiB Mem :  8177768 total,  5776164 free,  1090820 used, 1310784 
buff/cache
KiB Swap:  2104476 total,  2104476 free,    0 used. 6739252 
avail Mem


   PID USER  PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM TIME+ 
COMMAND
   721 sm01  20   0 3124212 459944 137620 S   0,0  5,6 3:00.40 
thunderbird-bin
10180 sm01  20   0 3071776 320472 143416 S   0,0  3,9 0:25.26 
firefox-bin
10510 sm01  20   0 2773444 225224 137620 S   0,3  2,8 0:08.56 
Web Content
10225 sm01  20   0 2761088 144564 102732 S   0,0  1,8 0:04.45 
Web Content
10311 sm01  20   0 2561996  96444  72968 S   0,0  1,2 0:00.95 
Privileged Cont

   488 root  20   0  451092  95444  59700 S   1,7  1,2 5:24.32 Xorg
10270 sm01  20   0 2554700  87532  66656 S   0,0  1,1 0:00.65 
WebExtensions
10551 sm01  20   0 2532436  64552  50480 S   0,0  0,8 0:00.21 
Web Content


(...)

Saludos,






Muy buen aporte. No lo conocía

Montar unidad de disco duro que aparece como tmpfs

[Joan Carles Albiñana Medina]

Necesito recuperar informacion de un disco duro y no se monta como /dev/sdx
sino que aparece como tmpfs y punto de montaje /run/user/0

¿Alguna ayuda?


[root@sysrescue ~]# df -h
Filesystem  Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
dev 3.9G 0  3.9G   0% /dev
run 3.9G   79M  3.8G   2% /run
copytoram   5.8G  647M  5.2G  11% /run/archiso/copytoram
cowspace2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /run/archiso/cowspace
/dev/loop0  647M  647M 0 100% /run/archiso/sfs/airootfs
airootfs2.0G   82M  1.9G   5% /
tmpfs   3.9G   85M  3.8G   3% /dev/shm
tmpfs   4.0M 0  4.0M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs   3.9G   40K  3.9G   1% /tmp
tmpfs   3.9G  2.1M  3.9G   1% /etc/pacman.d/gnupg
tmpfs   787M   36K  787M   1% /run/user/0

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 09 mar 21, 09:54:22, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
> > On Du, 07 mar 21, 13:56:03, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > > >> Another important consideration is memory -- non-ECC vs. ECC.  Desktop 
> > 
> > The motherboard needs support for it as well, e.g. I'm eying the ASRock 
> > B550M Steel Legend for a fan-less build (unfortunately the Ryzen 3 
> > 4300GE (35W TDP) is nowhere to be found :( )
> 
> None of the Renoir parts are being sold on the general market;
> they are all going directly to system integrators (HP, Dell...)

There's something curious about that, especially considering that the 
PRO version (4350GE) is *not* OEM only!?

It's almost like they confused the PRO with the retail version.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind getting the 4350GE instead ;)

(unless it's too expensive, of course)

> Unfortunately, those system integrators like to sell those parts
> on mediocre motherboards and with second-class components
> attached.

There might be a chance to get it as a bundle from some "creative" 
retailers, which would be fine as well if paired with my choice of 
motherboard and as far as I understand there are retailers that do sell 
OEM parts.

Wouldn't be my first "bag (and manual) only" computer part ;)

(used to be an "integrator" myself for friends and family)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Stefan Monnier]

> Each monitor will only use the GPU that it is connected to.

FWIW, I find the terminology used in the graphics card PC industry very
confusing.  In my view, there are 4 different kinds of components to
a graphic system:

- Memory: this can be dedicated "video RAM" or just a chunk of your
  normal RAM, shared with the rest of your system.
- Display engine (DE): This is the thing that reads a frame buffer
  from some memory and sends the corresponding data out to your
  monitor(s) via the output connector(s).
- Video processing unit (VPU): This is a specialized element with
  support for decoding/encoding some specific video and audio formats.
  It takes its input from some memory and sends its output to some other
  part of the memory.  E.g. when playing a video, it typically reads the
  video from the system RAM and sends the decoded output to some (part
  of a) frame buffer.
- GPU: This is a processor dedicated to doing the kind of number
  crunching used for 3D rendering.  It takes its inputs (e.g. textures
  and scene descriptions) from some memory and outputs the rendered
  scene to some (part of a) frame buffer.  Nowadays these processors
  have grown sufficient functionality that they can be used for other
  kinds of number crunching.

Most "integrated graphics" are composed of the last 3 components above
and use the system's normal DRAM for their memory needs.

Most PC's "discrete" graphics cards include all 4 components and they
typically can't use the system's normal DRAM in the same way they use
their own video RAM.  This means that you often can't use your discrete
GPU to render a 3D scene into the frame buffer used by the DE of your
integrated graphics card.


Stefan

Re: Debian 11. Conviene instalarlo antes que sea stable??

[Debian]

El 8/3/21 a las 14:30, Gonzalo Rivero escribió:

El dom, 07-03-2021 a las 13:29 -0300, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano
escribió:

Hola amigos. No doy mas, quiero instalar debian 11 en mi computadora.
La
ansiedad es mas que yo

Me gustaría saber de los genios de la lista dos opiniones

1) Si lo instalo ahora, cuando la versión 11 se convierta en stable,
hay
que reinstalar algo? o es transparente?

2) Que grado de inestabilidad puede tener debian 11 en este momento?
he
leído que muy poco







además de lo que te dicen en un mail anterior yo te recomiendo revisar
las notas de publicación con todas sus advertencias para saber con que
te podrás encontrar, de malo o bueno





"Cuando todo lo que intente falle, lea el manual de instrucciones."

JAP

Re: [1/2HS] Partition n°1 amorçable

[it]

Le 2021-03-08 17:28, Stephane Ascoet a écrit :

Le 05/03/2021 à 20:22, ajh-valmer a écrit :

Hello,

Question technique sur fdisk, d'où le 1/2 HS :

Bonjour, tu est en UEFI en vieux systeme d'amorcage par MBR 
d'autrefois?


Bonjour, ta partition /dev/sda1 a 512 octets de lignes de code en dur 
qui indiquent qu'on peut trouver les indications de boot sur cette même 
partition. C'est pour une compatibilité BIOS/UEFI.
Elle pointe vers l'image initrd qui envoie ensuite le noyau si je me 
souviens bien.

Si elle ne se trouve pas là à l'install, Debian la créera.

C'est nécessaire de garder ceci en l'état sinon tu risques ne plus 
retrouver grub ou autre 'friandise' problématique.

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Stefan Monnier]

> I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because it
> has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of the line.

You should be able to change the MAC used by your device, i.e. you
should be able to arrange for both devices to expose the same MAC so
your ISP won't notice the difference.


Stefan

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Dan Ritter]

Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
> On Du, 07 mar 21, 13:56:03, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > >> Another important consideration is memory -- non-ECC vs. ECC.  Desktop 
> 
> The motherboard needs support for it as well, e.g. I'm eying the ASRock 
> B550M Steel Legend for a fan-less build (unfortunately the Ryzen 3 
> 4300GE (35W TDP) is nowhere to be found :( )

None of the Renoir parts are being sold on the general market;
they are all going directly to system integrators (HP, Dell...)

Unfortunately, those system integrators like to sell those parts
on mediocre motherboards and with second-class components
attached.

-dsr-

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU???s

[Dan Ritter]

Pankaj Jangid wrote: 
> I???ll be using multiple monitors but my original doubt was this. If I am
> not connecting a monitor to GPU output, will I not be utilizing its
> power for (this) display?  Assuming, I have configured X to utilize all
> the GPUs for number crunching. Should it make any difference where I am
> connect the monitor? What will be the highest available resolution? Will
> it depend on where I have connected?

Each monitor will only use the GPU that it is connected to.

If you are using a GPU-as-coprocessor system like CUDA or
mlOPEN, that GPU is generally not available to be used by a
monitor at that time. It may be used before or after that.

If your motherboard has monitor outputs, it may be controlled
by:

- a motherboard-integrated GPU (not a card)
- a motherboard-integrated video controller (also not a card)
- a CPU-integrated GPU (Intel desktop CPUs, AMD APUs)

It will not be controlled by a plug-in GPU.

Finally, there are game APIs which use multiple GPUs to do the
rendering of screen images and pipe it through one final GPU
output; that is called AMD Crossfire and NVidia SLI or NVLink --
none of these are compatible with each other, and they are all
likely to be de-supported in the near future.

Does that help explain things?

-dsr-

Re: Debian 11. Conviene instalarlo antes que sea stable??

[Gonzalo Rivero]

El lun, 08-03-2021 a las 14:32 -0300, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano
escribió:
> 
> On 8/3/21 14:30, Gonzalo Rivero wrote:
> > El dom, 07-03-2021 a las 13:29 -0300, Marcelo Eduardo Giordano
> > escribió:
> > > Hola amigos. No doy mas, quiero instalar debian 11 en mi
> > > computadora.
> > > La
> > > ansiedad es mas que yo
> > > 
> > > Me gustaría saber de los genios de la lista dos opiniones
> > > 
> > > 1) Si lo instalo ahora, cuando la versión 11 se convierta en
> > > stable,
> > > hay
> > > que reinstalar algo? o es transparente?
> > > 
> > > 2) Que grado de inestabilidad puede tener debian 11 en este
> > > momento?
> > > he
> > > leído que muy poco
> > > 
> > además de lo que te dicen en un mail anterior yo te recomiendo
> > revisar
> > las notas de publicación con todas sus advertencias para saber con
> > que
> > te podrás encontrar, de malo o bueno
> > 
> Estuve leyendo y decidí dejarlo por ahora. Hay que ser paciente. No
> hay 
> que adelantarse.
> 
> Gracias por tu mensaje
> 
mismo cuando lo marquen como estable volvé sobre la versión definitiva
de ese documento (al menos definitiva para la versión de debian).
Siempre es bueno enterarse de antemano... aunque por otra parte ya lo
dice el dicho: "los readme son para los cobardes, ¡se valiente y
ejecuta!» :D

Re: Navigateur web Dillo et autres alternatives en dehors de la famille Chromium ou Firefox

[daniel . malgorn]

Bonjour,

merci pour cet inventaire que j'ai envie de préciser "sous le capot".

Faudrait-il avoir plus de moteurs de rendus?

Comment est déterminé la/les qualité(s) d'un moteur?

Certainement par les possibilités de s'intégrer au navigateur en
fonction de son cahier de chargesmais encore?

Quel langage offre le + de stabilité à l'engin ?

Les communications avec le noyau peuvent-elles être autres que binaires?

En sachant que les données binaires sont intimement liées au matériel,
il semble évident de favoriser le format texte (ASCII, UTF-8..)

Qui peut vouloir limiter la portabilité des données?

Quel peut-être la taille minimale d'un moteur de rendu ?

Peut-on définir un ratio taille/"puissance" ?

Combien de lignes de code pour WEBkit?
Quelle lisibilité?

Suivant le bateau, vous allez choisir un moteur plus ou moins nerveux.
On ne tire pas un ski nautique avec une péniche.quoique  ;-)

2temps? 4temps? diesel?

Heureusement qu'il nous reste des voiles!


On 01/03/2021 21:21, Pierre Malard wrote:
> Bonjour,
> 
> L’important ce n’est pas l’histoire des projets plus ou moins mort-nés.
> L’important c’est le nombre réduit de moteurs de rendus.
> Avec celui de Google il n’y en a que 4 qui fonctionnent à peu près
> (source https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigateur_web#Histoire) :
> 
>   * les navigateurs basés sur le moteur de rendu
>  Gecko
>  de Mozilla
> Firefox
>  (dont K-Meleon
> , SeaMonkey
> , Flock
> , IceWeasel
>  et Galeon
> ) ;
>   * les navigateurs basés sur Presto
>  (Suite
> internet Opera version 9 et plus
> , Opera Mobile
> , Opera Mini
> , Wii Internet Channel
> , Nintendo DS Browser
> , Sony Mylo
> 
> ) 
> ;
>   * les navigateurs basés sur KHTML
>  du projet KDE
>  (Konqueror
> ) ou sur son fork
>  WebKit
>  (Safari
>  d'Apple
> , OmniWeb
>  d'OmniGroup
> , Midori
>  du projet Xfce
> , Epiphany
> ).
> 
> 
> Encore que Google Chrome lui-même ne soit qu’un resucée de « WebKit »,
> ce qui est confirmé en creusant un peu
> (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moteur_de_rendu_HTML)…
> 
> Partant de là comment s’étonner que mis-à-part les grosses équipes
> personne n’ai envie de ré-inventer le fil à couper le beurre.
> 
> 
>> Le 1 mars 2021 à 11:49, Stephane Ascoet
>> > > a écrit :
>>
>> Le 22/02/2021 à 16:46, firenze...@orange.fr
>>  a écrit :
>>>
>>> Ce qui est frustrant dans le Logiciel Libre, c'est que quand on trouve
>>> quelque chose qui nous plaît, ce n'est pas forcément très à jour selon
>>> la distribution GNU/Linux qu'on utilise. Pire, c'est parfois carrément
>>> abandonné. Cette frustration est d'autant plus grande quand on n'a pas
>>> les compétences pour pouvoir reprendre le flambeau.
>>
>> Bonjour, ce n'est pas specifique au libre! Et quand c'est privateur,
>> la il n'y a carremment aucune chance que ce soit repris.
>>>
>>> Le tableau chronologique des navigateurs web disponible sur cette page
>>> est un assez bon point de départ pour ce faire une idée de ce qui existe
>>> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigateur_web
>>
>> Il est archi-complique. J'avais fait
>> 
>>>
>>> Dans la même catégorie, Il y a aussi NetSurf et Links. Mais on ne peut
>>> pas toujours changer le moteur de recherche par défaut.
>>>
>> J'aimerais tester NetSurf mais je n'ai pas reussi sans tout chambouler
>> a la gestion des alternatives. Links/elinks/Lynx/w3m sont
>> incompatibles avec de nombreux sites, mais quand ca fonctionne, ca
>> degoute tellement ca montre a quel point le Web pourrait etre leger et
>> rapide...
>>
>> -- 
>> 

Re: smartd monitoritzant els vostres discs durs...

[Toni Mas Soler]

Em sorprèn aquesta afirmació.
Jo passo els processos llargs cada mes i sempre tinc els discs actius. (hdparm 
-B 255).
Tinc algo malentès?


Toni Mas
GPG 3F42A21D84D7E950

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
En dilluns 8 de març de 2021 a les 10:55, Orestes Mas  va 
escriure:

> El 5 de març de 2021 20:30:49 CET, joanarboc...@calbasi.net ha escrit:
> 

> > En aquest howto:
> > https://www.howtoforge.com/checking-hard-disk-sanity-with-smartmontools-debian-ubuntu
> > he vist que e spot fer que smartd estigui funcionant sempre com a
> > dimoni, i a part de passar info al syslog, també envii un mail si hi ha
> > algun problema.
> > Volia saber si valtros useu aquesta opció i si te alguna
> > contrapartida...
> > D'altra banda, veig quan quan es fa un anàlisi llarg, pot trigar molta
> > estona. Per exemple: sudo smartctl -t long /dev/sdb
> > i per tant suposo que no és aquest tipus d'anàlisi els que fa el dimoni
> > smartd, oi?
> > Fins ara,
> 

> Fins on jo sé aquesta mena de tests (tant els curts com els llargs) fan les 
> comprovacions només quan el disc està inactiu (idle). Per tant, no hauria 
> d'afectar a l'operativa normal.
> 

> Un altre tema és quan considera el disc que està "idle". Si ho fa massa aviat 
> després de la darrera lectura/escriptura de l'usuari, aleshores sí que podria 
> baixar el rendiment perquè aniria intercalant el "test" amb les operacions 
> normals. En canvi, si s'assegura que l'usuari no està fent realment res abans 
> de continuar amb el "test", probablement l'impacte en el rendiment serà petit.
> 

> Orestes
> 

> 

> ---
> 

> Enviat des del meu dispositiu Android amb el K-9 Mail. Disculpeu la brevetat.



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Joe]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 08:12:47 -0500
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:12:40 AM Felix Miata wrote:
> > David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):  
> > > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work,
> > > because it has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's
> > > end of the line.  
> 
> > Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing
> > modems, and what the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's
> > still useful. If there's a problem they or I think a modem switch
> > might shed light on, I do the same.  
> 
> I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in
> service (for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the
> ISP.  (They were both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)
> 
> I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if
> the ISP sees the MAC address on a DSL line.
> 

I used to change routers without telling anyone, but that was years ago.

As an anecdote, I recall a BT service/router which literally would not
work if it detected another NAT on the LAN. It was in a client's
network, and I had to reconfigure things to work without the Debian
server acting as a firewall. If it had been my network, the wretched
thing would have gone back instantly, my network runs through two NATs
and that isn't negotiable.

-- 
Joe

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Joe]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 15:00:07 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Ma, 09 mar 21, 06:32:33, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > On 03/08/2021 10:18 AM, songbird wrote:  
> > > Richard Owlett wrote:
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > before chasing down this rabbit hole, see if there is an
> > > upgrade for your current kernel on the debian backports
> > > site (for your processor and distribution type).  i just
> > > had an issue with a new device not being recognized and
> > > updated my kernel (for stretch) and it worked fine after
> > > that.
> > >   
> > 
> > The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical
> > to be kernel related.
> > 
> > If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the
> > boot process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.  
> 
> Please also provide info like the exact stage of the boot process,
> any (error) messages on screen, etc.
> 
> I've seen this symptom with a laptop before, though it would hang at
> the BIOS stage (it was probably trying to boot from it), while you
> imply it's later.
> 

Yes, it's fairly common. My desktop (Gigabyte MB, mumble-mumble years
old) does it. Only with some things: it won't try to boot from a
Kindle or mobile phone, but it will try from a USB stick. Depends on
the filesystem/protocol, I suppose. What it won't do is give up after a
time and try the next device, it will just hang permanently.

-- 
Joe

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Joe]

On Tue, 09 Mar 2021 14:57:47 +0200
Anssi Saari  wrote:

> Richard Owlett  writes:
> 
> > The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical
> > to be kernel related.
> >
> > If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the
> > boot process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.  
> 
> I have a guess then. Maybe the Linkzone comes up as a storage device
> and has to be specifically instructed to become a modem. This was a
> common deal with old cellular USB sticks as I recall. A full Linux OS
> usually has something to do this switch while an installer doesn't
> necessarily.
> 
> As a side note, Google tells me the Linkzone uses bog standard
> cdc_ether and rndis_host drivers, same as what USB modems and Android
> phones commonly use.
> 
> 

Usbswitch was the software, and I don't think systemd needs it. A long
time since I used a mobile dongle.

-- 
Joe

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, March 09, 2021 12:12:40 AM Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2021-03-08 22:37 (UTC-0600):
> > I realise that, but if your service were to become unsatisfactory,
> > then before you complained, you'd want to check that it's not your
> > modem at fault. Would you expect your spare modem to work, because it
> > has a different MAC from what's expected by the ISP's end of the line.

> Whenever I get a mind to, I call my ISP, tell them I'm changing modems, and
> what the new MAC is. It gives me some confidence it's still useful. If
> there's a problem they or I think a modem switch might shed light on, I do
> the same.

I have DSL service, and a spare modem that I've occasionally put in service 
(for testing the "main" modem) and have not had to notify the ISP.  (They were 
both provided by the ISP (Earthlink).)

I don't know if cable modems would work the same -- I don't know if the ISP 
sees the MAC address on a DSL line.

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 09 mar 21, 06:32:33, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 03/08/2021 10:18 AM, songbird wrote:
> > Richard Owlett wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > before chasing down this rabbit hole, see if there is an
> > upgrade for your current kernel on the debian backports
> > site (for your processor and distribution type).  i just
> > had an issue with a new device not being recognized and
> > updated my kernel (for stretch) and it worked fine after
> > that.
> > 
> 
> The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical to be
> kernel related.
> 
> If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the boot
> process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.

Please also provide info like the exact stage of the boot process, any 
(error) messages on screen, etc.

I've seen this symptom with a laptop before, though it would hang at the 
BIOS stage (it was probably trying to boot from it), while you imply 
it's later.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Engegada aleatòria

[Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura]

Bon dia,

Jo tinc un msi amb monitor 4k i si configuro el grub per treballar a
aquesta resolució em fa el mateix que dius.

mira si tens al directori /boot/grub un fitxer amb el nom unicode.pf2,
la corrupció d'aquest fitxer pot provocat l'aturada de l'arrencada.

Pots fer una prova:

$ sudo mv /boot/grub/unicode.pf2 /boot/grub/unicode.pf2.bak

Un cop fet això reinicia l'equip, el grub et pot apareixer amb un
aspecte horrible, a 640x480 com a mi però sobrepassa aquest punt i arrenca.
Jo cada cop que faig un upgrade rehabilito el fitxer unicode.pf2 per si
es necessita per alguna actualització de l'initram

Si t'ho resol, recorda reanomenar-lo com toca.

Una abraçada gent.

-- 
*Xavier De Yzaguirre i Maura*
/xdeyzaguirre(at)gmail(dot)com/


El 9/3/21 a les 9:23, Narcis Garcia ha escrit:
> Jo començaria per provar a triar diferent nucli d'inici, al gestor
> d'arrencada (menú del GRUB). Si això fa variar el resultat, tindràs més
> pistes sobre l'origen del problema.
>
>
>
> Narcis Garcia
>
> __
> I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't
> masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator
> should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
> El 9/3/21 a les 8:53, Joan Albert ha escrit:
>> Bon dia debianites,
>>
>> Tinc un petit problema que arrossego des de fa ja unes setmanes i crec
>> que ha arribat el moment de demanar ajuda.
>>
>> El tema és que el meu PC de la feina, el qual corre únicament Debian
>> testing, fa el "burru" quan s'engega. Quasi mai s'engega a la primera,
>> es queda aturat a la pantalla inicial, concretament a la frase "Loading
>> initial ramdisk". El que acaba passant és que, després d'apagar-lo
>> forçosament (no em mateu, si us plau) i engegar-lo de nou moltes vegades
>> (provant d'endollar-lo i desendollar-lo, treure-li el connector USB del
>> teclat extern i posar-lo de nou, etc.), màgicament s'acaba iniciant
>> correctament.
>>
>> La solució transitòria que he decidit de moment és simplement deixar-lo
>> obert 24/7, però òbviament no és la solució correcta. He buscat
>> informació i he estat provant varies opcions (no recordo ja quines...),
>> tant a respostes de Debian com de Linux en general, i no me'n surto.
>> Algú té almenys una idea de quin pot ser el motiu? I sobretot, com pot
>> ser que acabi funcionant sense fer res més que reiniciar?
>>
>> Moltes gràcies amb antelació,
>>

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Anssi Saari]

Richard Owlett  writes:

> The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical to
> be kernel related.
>
> If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the boot
> process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.

I have a guess then. Maybe the Linkzone comes up as a storage device and
has to be specifically instructed to become a modem. This was a common
deal with old cellular USB sticks as I recall. A full Linux OS usually
has something to do this switch while an installer doesn't necessarily.

As a side note, Google tells me the Linkzone uses bog standard cdc_ether
and rndis_host drivers, same as what USB modems and Android phones
commonly use.

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[Linux-Fan]

Pankaj Jangid writes:


I have a confusion. Actually there are two. Please help me understand
this.

Suppose I have a good motherboard with two GPUs installed in the PCIe
slots. Now, should I connect the monitor to the motherboard video-out or
should I use GPU’s output? Suppose the OS (Debian GNU/Linux in this
case) is fully configured to utilize the GPUs i.e. drivers etc. are set
up. Will the graphic system be able to utilize the GPUs irrespective of
where I have connected the monitor?


Connect the monitors to the GPU/cards you want to use. Otherwise, it is most  
likely that graphics output will be computed by a processor-integrated  
graphics unit (if present, otherwise black screen).


Here are the two special cases that immediately come to mind:

* It is possible to utilize GPUs that are not connected to screens for  
  computation purposes (e.g. OpenCL/NVidia CUDA). Unless you are doing this  
  all the time there is no reason against using them for video output, too :)


* In case of mobile devices there are some which can render on a different GPU  
  than the monitor is connected to but for usual desktops this is not the case.


HTH
Linux-Fan

öö

[...]


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Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[Pankaj Jangid]

deloptes  writes:

>> Now, should I connect the monitor to the motherboard video-out or
>> should I use GPU’s output? Suppose the OS (Debian GNU/Linux in this
>> case) is fully configured to utilize the GPUs i.e. drivers etc. are set
>> up. Will the graphic system be able to utilize the GPUs irrespective of
>> where I have connected the monitor?
>
> I am not an expert in Wayland, but X is able to utilize any GPU in any
> number.  If it does not this automatically you have to manually
> configure the server.  There are numerous guides on the internet.

Okay. So, this is possible. But my doubt remains. See below.

> Last but not least - why many GPUs but one monitor? It makes no sense. It
> should use the one where the monitor is attached, but usually monitors have
> more inputs, which you can utilize.

I’ll be using multiple monitors but my original doubt was this. If I am
not connecting a monitor to GPU output, will I not be utilizing its
power for (this) display?  Assuming, I have configured X to utilize all
the GPUs for number crunching. Should it make any difference where I am
connect the monitor? What will be the highest available resolution? Will
it depend on where I have connected?

-- 
Regards,
Pankaj Jangid

Re: Status update {Re: PARTIAL DIAGNOSIS of Installation problems}

[Richard Owlett]

On 03/08/2021 10:18 AM, songbird wrote:

Richard Owlett wrote:
...

before chasing down this rabbit hole, see if there is an
upgrade for your current kernel on the debian backports
site (for your processor and distribution type).  i just
had an issue with a new device not being recognized and
updated my kernel (for stretch) and it worked fine after
that.



The more I think about my observed symptoms, it would seem logical to be 
kernel related.


If the Linkzone is physically connected when PC is turned on, the boot 
process will hang until the Linkzone is disconnected.

Fwd: mounten SD-kaartje zonder automounter

[René Luijckx]

-- Forwarded message -
Van: Geert Stappers 
Date: zo 28 feb. 2021 om 13:18
Subject: Re: mounten SD-kaartje zonder automounter
To: 
Cc: 

knip

} Wat nu?

Ik zie op drie verschillende niveaus mogelijkheden.


Een, desktop:

Er is een grafische applicatie die weet heeft van storage devices.
De XFCE die ik zelf gebruik heeft zo iets. Als ik een Andriod via
USB-kabel aansluit, verschijnt een "grijs" icon op mijn "bureaublad".
Door op dat grijze icon te klikken wordt het Andriod device als disk
gemount. Met `mount`op de command line is dat zichtbaar. Vooraf aan
losmaken van de USB-kabel klik ik op "eject".  Onderwater is dat het
commando `umount`


Twee, command line:

In een shell het mount commando uitvoeren. Dat wordt iets als

   mount /dev/mmcblk0p1  /media/sdkaart

Preciesere informatie is te vinden
in de output van `mount` als er reeds succes is.
[0]


Drie, card-reader-events to  automounter:

In Hollywood kan het in een paar tellen, elders komt er meer bijkijken.



Groeten
Geert Stappers

[0] `mount` is high-tech,  wees nieuwsgierig, onderzoek het, stel vragen

- - - - - - - -

Na opstart:

mount -l
sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
udev on /dev type devtmpfs
(rw,nosuid,relatime,size=6095148k,nr_inodes=1523787,mode=755)
devpts on /dev/pts type devpts
(rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000)
tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=1222328k,mode=755)
/dev/sdb1 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro,data=ordered)
securityfs on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev)
tmpfs on /run/lock type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,size=5120k)
tmpfs on /sys/fs/cgroup type tmpfs (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755)
cgroup2 on /sys/fs/cgroup/unified type cgroup2
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,xattr,name=systemd)
pstore on /sys/fs/pstore type pstore (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
bpf on /sys/fs/bpf type bpf (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,perf_event)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpu,cpuacct)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/memory type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/devices type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls,net_prio type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls,net_prio)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset)
cgroup on /sys/fs/cgroup/pids type cgroup
(rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,pids)
systemd-1 on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type autofs
(rw,relatime,fd=27,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct,pipe_ino=2137)
mqueue on /dev/mqueue type mqueue (rw,relatime)
hugetlbfs on /dev/hugepages type hugetlbfs (rw,relatime)
debugfs on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (rw,relatime)
fusectl on /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl (rw,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/core_10859.snap on /snap/core/10859 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/blender_111.snap on /snap/blender/111 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/shotcut_186.snap on /snap/shotcut/186 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/core18_1988.snap on /snap/core18/1988 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/core18_1944.snap on /snap/core18/1944 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/core_10823.snap on /snap/core/10823 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/node-red_630.snap on /snap/node-red/630 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/blender_65.snap on /snap/blender/65 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/vlc_1397.snap on /snap/vlc/1397 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/node-red_675.snap on /snap/node-red/675 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/shotcut_241.snap on /snap/shotcut/241 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
/var/lib/snapd/snaps/meshlab_36.snap on /snap/meshlab/36 type squashfs
(ro,nodev,relatime)
binfmt_misc on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw,relatime)
tmpfs on /run/snapd/ns type tmpfs
(rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=1222328k,mode=755)
nsfs on /run/snapd/ns/node-red.mnt type nsfs (rw)
tmpfs on /run/user/1000 type tmpfs
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=1222324k,mode=700,uid=1000,gid=1000)
/dev/sda1 on /media/rene/25a53c3c-4d12-4f7b-a33c-9abc481f4c89 type ext4
(rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,stripe=32749,data=ordered,uhelper=udisks2)
/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/rene/SD CARD type vfat

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[IL Ka]

> Suppose I have a good motherboard with two GPUs installed in the PCIe
> slots.


Now, should I connect the monitor to the motherboard video-out or
> should I use GPU’s output?


Motherboard output is for integrated video cards.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/57824/graphics.html



> Suppose the OS (Debian GNU/Linux in this
> case) is fully configured to utilize the GPUs i.e. drivers etc. are set
> up. Will the graphic system be able to utilize the GPUs irrespective of
> where I have connected the monitor?
>

Yes. Videocard should detect the monitor and report its presence to the
video system (X11).
In some cases you would need to configure it manually.

In modern X11 you use your desktop environment UI to configure monitors or
you can use the ``xrandr`` tool directly.
https://xorg-team.pages.debian.net/xorg/howto/use-xrandr.html





>

Re: Use motherboard video-out or GPU’s

[IL Ka]

> Last but not least - why many GPUs but one monitor? It makes no sense.

There is one exception called "PRIME" or dGPU:

https://www.spinics.net/lists/xorg/msg59821.html

https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/435.17/README/primerenderoffload.html
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PRIME

Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 07 mar 21, 16:36:34, Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:25 PM IL Ka  wrote:
> 
> >
> >> The reason for the two networks is that my modem-router is electrically
> >> incompatible with one of my computers.
> >>
> > hmm, I never heard about such things)
> > Is your electrical grounding configured correctly?
> >
> > In my country some old apartments do not have third (ground) wire. I've
> > seen a lot of glitches because of that.
> >
> > Have you tried to install an ethernet switch?
> >
> 
> yes i did, and it did not work --- just the fact that the router was in
> contact with the incompatible model even through a switch was enough to
> make it malfunction.  :(

This should[1] eliminate any "electrical" problems.

Based on the (limited) information I'd rather suspect the router has 
(probably very buggy) support for some of the Apple-specific network 
stuff.

It might help to simply disable anything in the router's configuration 
related to file sharing, streaming, backup, etc.

[1] famous last words ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 07 mar 21, 13:56:03, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Another important consideration is memory -- non-ECC vs. ECC.  Desktop 
> >> stuff has the former, workstation and server stuff done right has the 
> >> latter.  STFW "memory error", "bit rot" and related.  I prefer computers 
> >> with ECC memory.
> >   it's a really poor choice that that did not become standard
> > just because manufacturers wanted to save a few $.
> 
> IIUC the reason is not "to save a few bucks" but to segment the market
> such that ECC products can be sold at much higher prices.

It seems AMD Ryzen CPUs do support ECC, but it's not validated (which is 
why it won't be mentioned in the official specs).

The motherboard needs support for it as well, e.g. I'm eying the ASRock 
B550M Steel Legend for a fan-less build (unfortunately the Ryzen 3 
4300GE (35W TDP) is nowhere to be found :( )

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Engegada aleatòria

[Josep Lladonosa]

La meva anècdota per si et serveix:

Un cop em va passar (bug de nucli, manca d'actualització de bios HP) que el
nucli no progressava per culpa d'un dispositiu usb (càmera web Polycom).
Per engegar l'havia de tenir desconnectat.
Vaig actualitzar la bios i es va resoldre.



El dt., 9 de març 2021, 8:53, Joan Albert  va
escriure:

> Bon dia debianites,
>
> Tinc un petit problema que arrossego des de fa ja unes setmanes i crec
> que ha arribat el moment de demanar ajuda.
>
> El tema és que el meu PC de la feina, el qual corre únicament Debian
> testing, fa el "burru" quan s'engega. Quasi mai s'engega a la primera,
> es queda aturat a la pantalla inicial, concretament a la frase "Loading
> initial ramdisk". El que acaba passant és que, després d'apagar-lo
> forçosament (no em mateu, si us plau) i engegar-lo de nou moltes vegades
> (provant d'endollar-lo i desendollar-lo, treure-li el connector USB del
> teclat extern i posar-lo de nou, etc.), màgicament s'acaba iniciant
> correctament.
>
> La solució transitòria que he decidit de moment és simplement deixar-lo
> obert 24/7, però òbviament no és la solució correcta. He buscat
> informació i he estat provant varies opcions (no recordo ja quines...),
> tant a respostes de Debian com de Linux en general, i no me'n surto.
> Algú té almenys una idea de quin pot ser el motiu? I sobretot, com pot
> ser que acabi funcionant sense fer res més que reiniciar?
>
> Moltes gràcies amb antelació,
>
> --
> TS
>