Re: Debian on mobile phone

[deloptes]

piorunz wrote:

> What you mean by problem with ecosystem?

the apps

I use Sailfish OS since I gave up the N9. It has better ecosystem, but still
not compareable with Android/iOS, so I bought the license to be able to use
Android emulator and it works quite well, but still too much effort, bugs
and problems.

All other exotic phones are too expensive, have limitted ecosystem, small
community, bugs etc.

Of course it depends on the usecases, but for the price and capability of
the hardware it is expected to be more than a phone.

Anyway it depends on the use cases, but I think it should be mentioned what
are the limitations and first hand experiences.

Re: Using fontforge to convert TrueType or OpenType fonts to PostScript Type 1

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2021-07-26 16:15:01-0500, Tom Browder wrote:

> Can anyone show how to script the above conversion?

It's not good writing style to refer to a subject or heading. A reader
may need to skip back to it if he didn't expect it to be referred later.
Message or document content should be clear even without subject or
heading.

> I have had success creating Type 1 .pfa files using the widget
> interface, but would prefer scripting.

I hope I can help with a script I made long ago for converting font
files. My script's date stamp says 2005-11-26 and I don't remember much
about Fontforge but the script itself is simple and the code explains
itself. Give it font file names as arguments.


#!/usr/bin/fontforge

i = 1
while ( i < $argc )
Open($argv[i])
Generate($argv[i]:r + ".pfa")
i++
endloop

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450


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Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Richard Hector]

On 27/07/21 5:22 am, Greg Wooledge wrote:

P.S. If we're complaining about the lack of documentation for the cryptic
output of the Debian tool set, can we say some words about aptitude?
Seriously.

This command searches for packages that require or conflict with
the given package. It displays a sequence of dependencies leading
to the target package, along with a note indicating the installed
state of each package in the dependency chain:

$ aptitude why kdepim
i   nautilus-data Recommends nautilus
i A nautilus  Recommends desktop-base (>= 0.2)
i A desktop-base  Suggests   gnome | kde | xfce4 | wmaker
p   kde   Dependskdepim (>= 4:3.4.3)

What do *any* of those column-ish letters mean?  I can guess "i", maybe,
but not "A" or "p".  (I might have guessed "purged" for "p", but that
doesn't seem to fit the picture being painted by the example, which is
of a system that *does* have KDE installed.  In any case, why should I
have to guess these things?)


My main issue with aptitude documentation is that most of it isn't in 
the manpage, but in the 'aptitude reference manual' which is referred to 
without a link. The path given in the SEE ALSO section might be that, 
but it doesn't say so.


But experience suggests that A means 'automatically installed' (and p 
stands for purged, which linguistically doesn't really mean 'maybe has 
been purged; maybe has never been installed').


Cheers,
Richard

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Robbi Nespu]

on 24 Jul 2021 16:27:23 -0400, Jim Popovitch  wrote

Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?


the package are dump and store at 
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/hw-probe by debian package maintainer, 
maybe the upstream author (Andrey Ponomarenko) want to centralize 
testcoverage report using same repo?


i have issued https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/issues/1 about the 
ideas of using salsa for debian testcoverage


The tool using dual license (LGPL-2.1-or-later OR BSD-4-Clause), You can 
choose between one of them but not sure about the testcoverage reports


--
Robbi Nespu 
D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
https://robbinespu.gitlab.io | https://mstdn.social/@robbinespu

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 4:23 PM Andrey Ponomarenko <
andrewponomare...@yandex.ru> wrote:

> Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out
> the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:
> https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11
> 
>

By a "Stroke of luck", I have been running "Almost Production" Bullseye
systems since halfway through the Testing Process.  Any System that runs a
Qemu-KVM Guest is now running on Bullseye.

I first created a Qemu-KVM Guest under Mint 20, promptly ran out of Disk
Space, and so wanted to Import it to Debian (after developing a HUGE
dislike of Mint 20, mainly due to their Install Process).  *However*, I was
unable to Import that Qemu Guest to Buster (which I was running then),
because Buster refused the Import due to a lower Release Level for Qemu.
So, I bit the Bullet and am Quite Happy with Bullseye (though there were a
few Bumps, some of which were handled on this List, and one that became a
Debian Bug Report).

So I will make my Entries, via that Github Link for three HP Systems and
three Lenovo Laptops.  As a bonus, I will dust off an Ancient Gaming Laptop
and see how far I get, adding it too.  One note:  Some are upset over
Github.  I remain neutral, even to running a Windows 10 Guest on my HP
Elitedesk 705 G1 under Bullseye.

 You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
> https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.
>
> Andrey
>

 Kenneth Parker

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Javier Barroso]

Hello Greg,

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 7:22 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 01:01:59PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> > # man dpkg-query
> > ...
> >   Desired action:
> > u = Unknown
> > i = Install
>
> > v   lightdm-greeter  -
>
> I'm guessing it means "virtual".  Let's see:
>
> unicorn:~$ apt-cache show lightdm-greeter
> N: Can't select versions from package 'lightdm-greeter' as it is purely
> virtual
> N: No packages found
>
> Yeah, seems likely.
>
> P.S. If we're complaining about the lack of documentation for the cryptic
> output of the Debian tool set, can we say some words about aptitude?
> Seriously.
>
> Please see /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README

Probabbly the most complete README in Debian Archive

I would not complaint about aptitude documentation, but yes about all that
packages that are shipping with a poor /usr/share/doc/xxx directory and
without package-doc package (which would be nice to have).

At my system:
1364 /usr/share/doc/xxx directories with a README file (seems fine to me)
3591 /usr/share/doc/xxx directories without a README file (many of that
packages sure have manpages and/or info files)

I think it would be a improvement that README file be present at each
package, at least providing a mininum info about the package / program /
library.

i know it is a utopy, but would be beatiful an unified README file with
sections like:

What it is? Why it is installed? Is it configurable? What manpage or doc to
read? Links to webs

I know, it is Debian, you want, you can start to do the work ...

It is only a suggestion that would be Debian better for me.

Sometimes I says , oh no, another /usr/share/doc/xxx package only with
changelog (necessary for me too!) and license (perfect too!!) ! Where could
I learn about what is that library or that program! ?

i know how to search manpages, and search on the internet and search at
https://packages.qa.debian.org/common/index.html ... but it would be useful
to have a nice README for every package.

Well I hope this mail not disturb anybody, it is only a simple idea

Regards!

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Celejar]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:53:13 +0200
 wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
> > pretty much by definition.
> 
> License restrictions apply.

Of course, but I didn't think that hosting the code on Github gives
Microsoft more rights over it than if it were hosted somewhere else. Is
there anything in the Github terms of service that grants Microsoft
more rights over my code than the terms of the applicable license? And
if you're assuming that Microsoft won't respect license terms, then
once again, it won't matter where the code is hosted.

Celejar

Using fontforge to convert TrueType or OpenType fonts to PostScript Type 1

[Tom Browder]

Can anyone show how to script the above conversion?

The output should at least have the first 256 glyps, but converting to
multiple Types 1 or an acceptable PostScript Level 2 or 3 advanced type is
better (as long it can be represented in a PS printer-acceptable text file).

I have had success creating Type 1 .pfa files using the widget interface,
but would prefer scripting.

Thanks,

-Tom

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-26 1:22 p.m., l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 26 juil. 2021, 19:01 de mrma...@earthlink.net:
> 
>> # man dpkg-query
>> ...
>>  Desired action:
>>  u = Unknown
>>  i = Install
>>  h = Hold
>>  r = Remove
>>  p = Purge
>>
>>  Package status:
>>  n = Not-installed
>>  c = Config-files
>>  H = Half-installed
>>  U = Unpacked
>>  F = Half-configured
>>  W = Triggers-awaiting
>>  t = Triggers-pending
>>  i = Installed
>>
>>  Error flags:
>>   = (none)
>>  R = Reinst-required
>> ...
>>
>> Above is the best I could find to explain the meaning of first columns.
>> Conspicuously absent is:
>>
>>  v
>>
>> e.g.:
>> # aptitude search lightdm
>> ...
>> p   liblightdm-qt5-3-dev - LightDM Qt 5 client library 
>> (development f
>> p   lightdm  - Display Manager
>> v   lightdm-greeter  -
>> p   lightdm-gtk-greeter  - simple display manager (GTK+ greeter)
>> v   lightdm-gtk-greeter-config   -
>> p   lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings - settings editor for the LightDM GTK+ 
>> Greet
>> p   lightdm-kde-greeter  - LightDM KDE greeter
>> p   lightdm-settings - LightDM configuration tool
>> p   lightdm-webkit-greeter   - LightDM Webkit Greeter
>> p   mythbuntu-lightdm-theme  - Mythbuntu LightDM setup
>> p   razorqt-lightdm-greeter  - LightDM greeter for Razor-qt desktop 
>> envir
>> v   razorqt-lightdm-greeter-config   -
>> ...
>>
>> What man page has a listing that includes "v"? Web searches are proving 
>> highly
>> resistant to providing its meaning. :~(
>>
>> Bonus question: why are descriptions absent from v line-items?
>>
> aptitude man page:
> 
> "Each search result is listed on a separate line. The first character of each 
> line indicates the current state of the package: the most common states are 
> p, meaning that no trace of the package exists on the system, c, meaning that 
> the package was deleted but its configuration files remain on the system, i, 
> meaning that the package is installed, and v, meaning that the package is 
> virtual."
> 
Would make sense to share the same character code with DPKG... Wouldn't it ?
> Best regards,
> l0f4r0
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Receipt [ was : needrestart - how to supress ncurses gui]

[Charlie Gibbs]

On Mon Jul 26 09:07:22 2021 Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
 wrote:

> On 2021-07-25 7:59 p.m., Charles Curley wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 17:30:57 -0400
>> Dan Ritter  wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:=20
>>>
 "Suspenders" in UK are used with old fashioned silk stockings and a
 garter belt or similar: small clips to hook the stockings to. The
 sort of thing you might see in a burlesque show, maybe, or for a
 fancy dress party.
>>>
>>> And there's another one:
>>>
>>> UK fancy dress party sounds, in the US, like "formal evening
>>> attire" but  means "costume party" or "masquerade".
>>
>> H. L. Mencken's The American Language has an entire chapter devoted
>> to differences between American English and British English. Or, in
>> Mencken's terminology, American and English. I think he repeated the
>> old saw about how Americans and British are divided by a common
>> language, but can't find it right now.
>>
>> "Subway" v. "underground" comes to mind.
>
> Subway (US) vs Underground (UK) v Metro (Canada)

s/Canada/France/

The only Canadian subway referred to as "Metro" is the one in
Montreal.  I've never heard a Torontonian refer to their subway
that way.  And in Vancouver, ironically, we call it "SkyTrain",
because most of it is elevated instead.  At least until they
build that subway line out to UBC; I guess we weren't paying
enough taxes as it was...

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /|  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |-- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Felix Miata]

Andrei POPESCU composed on 2021-07-26 21:54 (UTC+0300):

> Greg Wooledge wrote:

>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 07:22:49PM +0200, l0f4r0 wrote:

>>> Felix Miata wrote:

 # man dpkg-query

>>> aptitude man page:

>>> "Each search result is listed on a separate line. The first 
>>> character of each line indicates the current state of the package: 
>>> the most common states are p, meaning that no trace of the package 
>>> exists on the system, c, meaning that the package was deleted but 
>>> its configuration files remain on the system, i, meaning that the 
>>> package is installed, and v, meaning that the package is virtual."

>> Wait, wait, wait

>> First, are you telling me that the documentation for dpkg-query's output
>> format is in aptitude's man page? 


I pasted that list from aptitude's man page, at the point at which I had given 
up
hope of finding the answer. It's the identical "v"-omitted list from 
dpkg-query's
man page.

> I believe you misread, it was the OP that searched in 'man dpkg-query' 
> for the meaning of aptitude flags.


I was searching www and various man pages for a tabular *list* of meanings of 
the
letters after finding no "v" in the dpkg*/apt* man pages. After a long period of
frustration searching for that single letter command option, I pasted into my OP
the only list I managed to find that answered the question in an apparent
comprehensive tabular list format.

Had the word "virtual" come to mind, as it did for Greg, I may have managed to
come up with an answer myself, likely in similar manner.

Is there a catalog anywhere of all Debian's package management commands? 
Figuring
out which to use for any given requirement is a daunting task, with a multitude 
of
similar sibling/hyphenated/plugin commands taking the place of command options,
switches and sub-commands (as with yum/dnf); as opposed to zypper, which works
virtually exclusively with switches, sub-commands and options, *all* 
discoverable
by searching through a comprehensive _single_man_page_.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Debian on mobile phone

[piorunz]

On 26/07/2021 20:19, deloptes wrote:

piorunz wrote:


Another solution is to use designated Linux smartphone, like Pinephone.
I use that one with Mobian system, which is pure Debian repos with some
tweaks to make GUI better.


yes but the problem is always the ecosystem.
I was looking into Pinephone few months ago.



What you mean by problem with ecosystem?

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Debian on mobile phone

[deloptes]

piorunz wrote:

> Another solution is to use designated Linux smartphone, like Pinephone.
> I use that one with Mobian system, which is pure Debian repos with some
> tweaks to make GUI better.

yes but the problem is always the ecosystem. 
I was looking into Pinephone few months ago.

Re: Phone

[deloptes]

Joe wrote:

> OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
> probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
> netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
> reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
> philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

There are OSes for true believers. I'm using one that is more or less OK. It
is called Sailfish and for 50,- on top you can use Android apps in the
emulator. Unfortunately still not as stable as it's grandmother Harmattan
was.

Unfortunately it is the same situation as with Microsoft 40y ago.

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 26 iul 21, 13:22:12, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> P.S. If we're complaining about the lack of documentation for the cryptic
> output of the Debian tool set, can we say some words about aptitude?

There are many things to be said about aptitude. Lack of documentation 
wouldn't make my list.

Cryptic and hidden? Maybe... but lack of?

> Seriously.


$ wc /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README
8018  45423 458751 /usr/share/doc/aptitude/README


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 26 iul 21, 13:40:46, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 07:22:49PM +0200, l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
> > 26 juil. 2021, 19:01 de mrma...@earthlink.net:
> > > # man dpkg-query
> 
> > aptitude man page:
> > 
> > "Each search result is listed on a separate line. The first 
> > character of each line indicates the current state of the package: 
> > the most common states are p, meaning that no trace of the package 
> > exists on the system, c, meaning that the package was deleted but 
> > its configuration files remain on the system, i, meaning that the 
> > package is installed, and v, meaning that the package is virtual."
> 
> Wait, wait, wait
> 
> First, are you telling me that the documentation for dpkg-query's output
> format is in aptitude's man page?

I believe you misread, it was the OP that searched in 'man dpkg-query' 
for the meaning of aptitude flags.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 07:22:49PM +0200, l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
> 26 juil. 2021, 19:01 de mrma...@earthlink.net:
> > # man dpkg-query

> aptitude man page:
> 
> "Each search result is listed on a separate line. The first character of each 
> line indicates the current state of the package: the most common states are 
> p, meaning that no trace of the package exists on the system, c, meaning that 
> the package was deleted but its configuration files remain on the system, i, 
> meaning that the package is installed, and v, meaning that the package is 
> virtual."

Wait, wait, wait

First, are you telling me that the documentation for dpkg-query's output
format is in aptitude's man page?

Second, I searched for "and v" to find the section you cited... and it's
under "search".  Huh.  Well then.  It would be REALLY super helpful if
there were something under "why" that said "see search for the meaning
of the package state indicators".

Even better would be if the package state indicators were documented
in a separate section, all by themselves, in a *table*, so that they
stand out visually and can't be overlooked.  And then point to that
table from both "search" and "why".

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

26 juil. 2021, 19:01 de mrma...@earthlink.net:

> # man dpkg-query
> ...
>  Desired action:
>  u = Unknown
>  i = Install
>  h = Hold
>  r = Remove
>  p = Purge
>
>  Package status:
>  n = Not-installed
>  c = Config-files
>  H = Half-installed
>  U = Unpacked
>  F = Half-configured
>  W = Triggers-awaiting
>  t = Triggers-pending
>  i = Installed
>
>  Error flags:
>   = (none)
>  R = Reinst-required
> ...
>
> Above is the best I could find to explain the meaning of first columns.
> Conspicuously absent is:
>
>  v
>
> e.g.:
> # aptitude search lightdm
> ...
> p   liblightdm-qt5-3-dev - LightDM Qt 5 client library 
> (development f
> p   lightdm  - Display Manager
> v   lightdm-greeter  -
> p   lightdm-gtk-greeter  - simple display manager (GTK+ greeter)
> v   lightdm-gtk-greeter-config   -
> p   lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings - settings editor for the LightDM GTK+ 
> Greet
> p   lightdm-kde-greeter  - LightDM KDE greeter
> p   lightdm-settings - LightDM configuration tool
> p   lightdm-webkit-greeter   - LightDM Webkit Greeter
> p   mythbuntu-lightdm-theme  - Mythbuntu LightDM setup
> p   razorqt-lightdm-greeter  - LightDM greeter for Razor-qt desktop 
> envir
> v   razorqt-lightdm-greeter-config   -
> ...
>
> What man page has a listing that includes "v"? Web searches are proving highly
> resistant to providing its meaning. :~(
>
> Bonus question: why are descriptions absent from v line-items?
>
aptitude man page:

"Each search result is listed on a separate line. The first character of each 
line indicates the current state of the package: the most common states are p, 
meaning that no trace of the package exists on the system, c, meaning that the 
package was deleted but its configuration files remain on the system, i, 
meaning that the package is installed, and v, meaning that the package is 
virtual."

Best regards,
l0f4r0

Re: explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 01:01:59PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> # man dpkg-query
> ...
>   Desired action:
> u = Unknown
> i = Install

> v   lightdm-greeter  -

I'm guessing it means "virtual".  Let's see:

unicorn:~$ apt-cache show lightdm-greeter
N: Can't select versions from package 'lightdm-greeter' as it is purely virtual
N: No packages found

Yeah, seems likely.

P.S. If we're complaining about the lack of documentation for the cryptic
output of the Debian tool set, can we say some words about aptitude?
Seriously.

   This command searches for packages that require or conflict with
   the given package. It displays a sequence of dependencies leading
   to the target package, along with a note indicating the installed
   state of each package in the dependency chain:

   $ aptitude why kdepim
   i   nautilus-data Recommends nautilus
   i A nautilus  Recommends desktop-base (>= 0.2)
   i A desktop-base  Suggests   gnome | kde | xfce4 | wmaker
   p   kde   Dependskdepim (>= 4:3.4.3)

What do *any* of those column-ish letters mean?  I can guess "i", maybe,
but not "A" or "p".  (I might have guessed "purged" for "p", but that
doesn't seem to fit the picture being painted by the example, which is
of a system that *does* have KDE installed.  In any case, why should I
have to guess these things?)

explanation of first column "v" is hiding

[Felix Miata]

# man dpkg-query
...
  Desired action:
u = Unknown
i = Install
h = Hold
r = Remove
p = Purge

  Package status:
n = Not-installed
c = Config-files
H = Half-installed
U = Unpacked
F = Half-configured
W = Triggers-awaiting
t = Triggers-pending
i = Installed

  Error flags:
 = (none)
R = Reinst-required
...

Above is the best I could find to explain the meaning of first columns.
Conspicuously absent is:

v

e.g.:
# aptitude search lightdm
...
p   liblightdm-qt5-3-dev - LightDM Qt 5 client library (development 
f
p   lightdm  - Display Manager
v   lightdm-greeter  -
p   lightdm-gtk-greeter  - simple display manager (GTK+ greeter)
v   lightdm-gtk-greeter-config   -
p   lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings - settings editor for the LightDM GTK+ 
Greet
p   lightdm-kde-greeter  - LightDM KDE greeter
p   lightdm-settings - LightDM configuration tool
p   lightdm-webkit-greeter   - LightDM Webkit Greeter
p   mythbuntu-lightdm-theme  - Mythbuntu LightDM setup
p   razorqt-lightdm-greeter  - LightDM greeter for Razor-qt desktop 
envir
v   razorqt-lightdm-greeter-config   -
...

What man page has a listing that includes "v"? Web searches are proving highly
resistant to providing its meaning. :~(

Bonus question: why are descriptions absent from v line-items?
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Celejar wrote:

[...]

> Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
> pretty much by definition.

License restrictions apply.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Celejar]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:48:03 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 25 July 2021 15:36:26 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:43:10PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > > > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> > > >
> > > > ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(
> > >
> > > I went to
> > >
> > >   https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan
> > >
> > > and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
> > > Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
> > > users to go there?
> >
> > It is subtle, and you might disagree.
> >
> > I always wondered why github was worth 7.5 billion to Microsoft [1].
> > Surely it seemed a bit steep for "just" generating good will in the
> > "open source" (as they choose to call it) community?
> >
> > Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
> > git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
> > as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
> > shiny web interface.
> >
> > This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
> > as much distance as possible between github and myself.
> >
> > But still, 7.5B?
> >
> > Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
> > get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
> > license (only the service is available for mere mortals).
> >
> > They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
> > at least, they hope to have it.
> >
> > Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
> > me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
> > wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
> > just by their shareholder value :-)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github#Acquisition_by_Microsoft
> > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot
> > [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict
> >
> >  - t
> 
> +100 Tomas, as it gives them free access to "borrow" some of the best 
> code out there. So the comparison to the underhanded compuserve and 

Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
pretty much by definition.

Celejar

Re: Hardware life expectancy

[James H. H. Lampert]

On 7/25/21 6:38 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
. . .

Nowadays, I'm still planning to use that same Thinkpad X30 to display
PDFs in the classroom (when I get to meet students physically again),
and more than half of my machine are older than 10 years old.
Better yet, they don't seem significantly slower than my newer machines.

So, yes, 10 year old machines and still very much relevant.


I'm still making productive use of a G4 "bionic desk lamp" iMac, and of 
a DOS/Linux dual-boot that I built from mostly cast-off parts, a few of 
them even older than the iMac. And I will continue to do so even once I 
get my new Meerkat fully deranged to suit my tastes.


But on the other hand, computers are not Linotype machines (I regularly 
operate one from 1954: that's eight years older than I am), and aren't 
built to last forever. (The speaker on the iMac quit some months back, 
and it now has a chronic overheating problem.)


--
JHHL

Re: Phone

[Dan Ritter]

Joe wrote: 
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 07:39:01 -0400
> Dan Ritter  wrote:
> 
> > The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
> > are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
> > it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
> > security on such a powerful instrument. 

> OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
> probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
> netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
> reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
> philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

Clearly I did not make myself understandable, or else you would
not have this confusion.

You have a problem with making a phone do what you want, because
of the philosophy of the manufacturer, who also writes the OS.

If the OS were replaced with Debian, you would not have this problem.

The difficulty with installing Debian on your Apple device is not a
philosophical difficulty. It is a practical one. If/when it is solved,
you will not have this class of problem.


-dsr-

Re: Receipt [ was : needrestart - how to supress ncurses gui]

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

On 2021-07-26 9:27 a.m., Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:31 PM Greg Wooledge  > wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 03:21:54PM -0400, Polyna-Maude
> Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > On 2021-07-25 11:13 a.m., Brian wrote:
> > > Belt and braces? We see you believe in it. :)
> > What do you mean by this ?
> > Belt and braces ??
> 
> "Braces" is a British term for suspenders.  The American version of
> this would be "belt and suspenders".
> 
> 
> To be distinguished from "braces and boots" (and no belt :-) which is
> day-to-day skinhead style , even in Chicago. They use British
> terminology here too. Skinheads in America are mostly _not_ white
> racists, nor are punks. But TV is your biggest liar in America as
> everywhere, they told you different.
> 
Skinhead = Skin on the head = No hair on the head
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: USB audio device no longer showing up

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 2:52 PM Thomas Amm  wrote:

> On Fri, 2021-07-23 at 08:11 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > >
> > > Thomas which USB chipsets do you prefer for audio?
> > > And are you doing MIDI over USB to the synth?
> > >
> > > Viel Glueck .Nick Geovanis
> > >
>
> Mostly Realtek for now. I rember a faulty chipset in the early days of
> USB3 causing lots of headaches but wasn't personally affected. No
> actual USB-3 chipset has let me down so far, however.
> I am actually doing MIDI over USB with all my synths but one, a 1989
> KORG Polysix with MIDI retrofit via DIN. This means I've got four
> synths and three controllers communicating duplex over the same active
> USB-3 hub without problems even when sequencing three of them and
> recording + monitoring the master keyboard simultaneously. No miracle
> comparing MIDI's very small bandwith and timing requirements with USB-3
> specs.
>

Thanks so much Thomas, that was a big question for me. Not so much USB-3
bandwidth but latency and timing.

I have a Casio DMW, CSound under wintel (embarrassed silence ;-) and
working on an Arduino-based sequencer. Arduino's have a base MIDI library
and speak it directly.

Re: Receipt [ was : needrestart - how to supress ncurses gui]

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:31 PM Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 03:21:54PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> wrote:
> > On 2021-07-25 11:13 a.m., Brian wrote:
> > > Belt and braces? We see you believe in it. :)
> > What do you mean by this ?
> > Belt and braces ??
>
> "Braces" is a British term for suspenders.  The American version of
> this would be "belt and suspenders".
>

To be distinguished from "braces and boots" (and no belt :-) which is
day-to-day skinhead style , even in Chicago. They use British terminology
here too. Skinheads in America are mostly _not_ white racists, nor are
punks. But TV is your biggest liar in America as everywhere, they told you
different.

Re: Phone

[Joe]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 07:39:01 -0400
Dan Ritter  wrote:

> Joe wrote: 
> > On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
> > Gunnar Gervin  wrote:
> >   
> > > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.
> > >  
> > 
> > Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who
> > thinks they are toys.  
> 
> Of course smartphones are toys.
> 
> They are also reasonably powerful general purpose computers that
> fit into a pocket.
> 
> Hence "I have the Internet in my pants."
> 
> Phones are books. They play music and TV shows and movies, and
> of course, games.
> 
> They are maps that know where you are, can be told where you are
> going, and can tell you turn-by-turn instructions on getting
> there. They can track your movements and learn your face well
> enough to distinguish it from a photograph of your face --
> sometimes. They are the majority of photography and video
> cameras on the planet.
> 
> Because phones are valid terminals for the Internet as a whole,
> they are reference libraries and documentation and how-to
> videos.
> 
> Also, you can use them to communicate,  and even call for help.
> 
> All of them, to a first approximation, run some kind of UNIX.
> Most of them run Linux. There's a big complicated ecosystem
> called Android on top of that, but definitely Linux underneath.
> 
> The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
> are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
> it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
> security on such a powerful instrument. 
> 

It is the philosophical which makes the practical so very difficult,
and it is the philosophy behind the mobile devices which makes them
toys.

I've recently installed OpenVPN on two Android phones and an iPad.
Installing it (OpenVPN Connect, the 'official' client) was trivial.
Configuring it has proven impossibly difficult with one phone and the
iPad. The iPad does not have the concept of file storage: a matter of
philosophy. This means that the only two methods of getting a file into
it are using Apple's cloud or using email. The file must be directly
useable from these media as there is no provision for the user to store
files on the iPad. At least this isn't a problem with Android.

The version of OpenVPN on my phone must be older than the recent
installations on the iPad and on my wife's phone, because it allows the
use of separate certificate/ca files and also manual configuration of
the profile. This is obviously a no-no now, enforced by the OS
manufacturers, when the only permitted configuration method is to load
an all-in-one OpenVPN profile. So far, I have not been able to generate
any such file that is accepted by either the Android or iPad, and the
error messages produced are not in the least helpful, nor are the
'examples' on the Net. 

OK, spending another couple of days making near-random changes will
probably solve this, but my point is that I did the job on a buster
netbook in five minutes, on my Android phone in about ten, and the
reason it is taking hours on the other mobile devices is one of
philosophy, which translates into (lack of) practicality.

-- 
Joe

Re: Debian on mobile phone

[piorunz]

On 25/07/2021 09:03, Gunnar Gervin wrote:

Is it possible to use debian on an android phone (Samsung A-40)?
geg


Another solution is to use designated Linux smartphone, like Pinephone.
I use that one with Mobian system, which is pure Debian repos with some
tweaks to make GUI better.

neofetch
   _,met$gg.  mobian@mobian
,g$$$P.   -
  ,g$$P" """Y$$.".OS: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) aarch64
 ,$$P'  `$$$. Host: Pine64 PinePhone (1.2)
',$$P   ,ggs. `$$b:   Kernel: 5.11-sunxi64
`d$$' ,$P"'   .$$$Uptime: 6 days, 20 hours, 42 mins
 $$P  d$' ,$$PPackages: 1360 (dpkg)
 $$:  $$.   -,d$$'Shell: bash 5.1.4
 $$;  Y$b._   _,d$P'  Resolution: 720x1440
 Y$$.`.`"YP"' Terminal: /dev/pts/0
 `$$b  "-.__  CPU: (4) @ 1.152GHz
  `Y$$Memory: 1368MiB / 2995MiB
   `Y$$.
 `$$b.
   `Y$$b.
  `"Y$b._
  `"""


--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: Phone

[Dan Ritter]

Joe wrote: 
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:57:04 +0300
> Gunnar Gervin  wrote:
> 
> > Will buy phone zoon, then play with this android for fun & learn.
> 
> Please comment here on your findings. Perhaps it is just me who thinks
> they are toys.

Of course smartphones are toys.

They are also reasonably powerful general purpose computers that
fit into a pocket.

Hence "I have the Internet in my pants."

Phones are books. They play music and TV shows and movies, and
of course, games.

They are maps that know where you are, can be told where you are
going, and can tell you turn-by-turn instructions on getting
there. They can track your movements and learn your face well
enough to distinguish it from a photograph of your face --
sometimes. They are the majority of photography and video
cameras on the planet.

Because phones are valid terminals for the Internet as a whole,
they are reference libraries and documentation and how-to
videos.

Also, you can use them to communicate,  and even call for help.

All of them, to a first approximation, run some kind of UNIX.
Most of them run Linux. There's a big complicated ecosystem
called Android on top of that, but definitely Linux underneath.

The requests over the last few days to install Debian on phones
are entirely blocked by practical issues, not philosophical --
it is perfectly reasonable to want control and thus privacy and 
security on such a powerful instrument. 

-dsr- 

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 26 July 2021 02:51:40 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:48:03PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> [...]
>

> Us old jeezers, always so full of history ;-)

We lived it.

> With a tip o' the hat to Rudyard Kipling [1].
>
> But I think that's enough off-topic, so I'll stop here :-)

;-)

> Cheers
>
> [1] https://www.classicshorts.com/stories/htlghs.html
>
>  - t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Problems with an X220 potentially related to linux-4.9.0-16-amd64 update

[Ivan Krylov]

Christian, Tomas,

Thanks for your answers! I've been running 4.9.0-15-amd64 for the last
few days and haven't observed anything untoward so far.

I guess the next step would be rebooting into 4.9.0-16-amd64 again to
verify that it's still the kernel version making the difference. I'll
mail my findings in a few days.

-- 
Best regards,
Ivan