Re: Sound loses my analog speakers after suspend, and power settings don't affect monitor poweroff

[Marco]

Now run 
sudo dmesg | grep snd

to see if any error in the kernel module occurs.

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[tomas]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 05:39:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 14:25, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > 
> > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > 
> No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all the
> bs of proving I am me to my bank,

You just moved the goalpost: the Debian mailing lists are not your
bank. Whatever your bank does... I think I don't want to know that.

The current context was the Debian mailing list. Not your bank. Not
some dystopian lock-in software for some (at first cheap) hardware.
Not anything else.

Try to keep things apart, Gene. That eases discussions.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Wireless temperature & humidity measurement

[Bruno Kleinert]

Am Freitag, dem 14.07.2023 um 21:52 +0200 schrieb zithro:
> On 14 Jul 2023 10:53, Joe wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Jul 2023 09:27:12 +0200
> > Bruno Kleinert  wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I'm looking for a wireless way to measure temperature and humidity
> > > indoor with hardware off the shelf and software included in Debian 12
> > > bookworm.
> > > 
> > > Sensors --> Radio --> Receiver --> Any typical PC interface, e.g.,
> > > USB, Ethernet.
> > > 
> > > I don't need a visual interface, but plan to process measured values
> > > in shell scripts.
> > > 
> > > Do you have any hardware recommendations and can you share experience?
> 
> I use DS18B20 chips (1-wire protocol, nice for long distances cabling) 
> and some BME280s or MPL3115A2, plugged on Raspberry Pies.
> The DS18B20 can be directly manipulated via sysfs, while the BMEs and 
> the MPL3115A2 need a software library to interpret the sensors output (I 
> use Adafruit's one, in python).

Since I had two DS18B20 1-wire sensors running, I had experience with
that and liked its brain-dead simplicity to set up and use it. It seems
to me, there's currently a shortage in availability in Germany's web
shops. Also, some ready-to use sensors seemed expensive to me, so I put
1-wire technology on hold.

For testing puprosed I bought a Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ and I decided
for Raspberry Pi Zero WH's and DHT20 temperature and humidity sensors,
which apparently is a newish I2C version of the DHTs, and can just be
wired to Raspberry Pis' IC2 connectors without any additional resistors
(My soldering skills got terribly rusty). I used i2cdetect of the i2c-
tools package to detect controllers and sensors and to play around with
the sensors' data I currently
use https://github.com/cjee21/RPi-DHT20/tree/main (not in Debian 12
bookworm). I'd prefere to use i2cget to read sensor data, but didn't
manage to get it working, yet.

Additionally I successfully can control a 4-relay board (controlled via
4 GPIOs) with gpioset of the gpiod package and I'm using a rain sensor
(signalling via GPIO) as a water leakage sensor with gpioget and
gpiomon from the gpiod package. I spontaneously decided to build a
sprinkler system and currently wait for the magnet valves to arrive.
I'm open to suggestions for a housing, as I didn't consider how to
protect the electronics outside, yet.

Funnily, I got crazy how charmingly well the stock (plus the firmware
packages from non-free and/or non-free-firmware) Debian 12 bookworm
images work on both Raspberry Pi types. Thanks a lot Gunnar, I think!
️

Thanks to everyone responding in the thread for your hints and
pointers!

Kind regards,
Bruno


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Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[David Wright]

On Fri 11 Aug 2023 at 17:39:28 (-0400), gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 14:25, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > 
> > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > 
> No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all
> the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at
> least a decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would
> take eons to guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.

If you only have to type your password monthly in order to login,
that suggests your bank has a very lax security model. I presume
you never actively logout when you've finished the day's business.

Many banks nowadays use two factor authentication, and automatically
log you out after a period of inactivity. Furthermore, they often
require reauthentication in order to make any withdrawals.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[gene heskett]

On 8/11/23 21:10, Larry Martell wrote:
Larry, whom I've known for 20 years, is only echoing.
 Are you really an engineer ?!


No, I am not an EE, but I am a Certified Electronics Technician, a much 
rarer breed of cat than your run of the mill EE.  We teach EE's how to 
get their hands dirty in the real world. Teaching them things their 
tenured by mistake prof's didn't.


Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have no 
clue who is who here.


Thanks Larry. Take care & stay well, both of you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Alpine was: UNUBSCRIBE

[fjd]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2023, Bret Busby wrote:

I am an alpine user (and pine before alpine), and I did not know of this 
functionality.


me too; me neither.

Do you or anyone else know of a list or online forum where one can 
discuss Alpine?


Felmon

--
Davis

Verbum sat sapienti.

Crosshairs in gimp 2.10.22 in Debian 11.7.

[peter]

I've retrieved 'Gregs Crosshairs.scm.zip' and unzipped to
/home/me/.config/GIMP/2.10/scripts/GregsCrosshairs.scm.

If an image is open, Image > Guides gives a menu with four options.
New guide (by Percent)...
New guide...
New Guides from Selection
Remove all Guides

"New guide" allows creation of a horizontal or vertical dashed line 
at a specified fixed location.

Can gimp have window sized crosshairs?  Ie. horizontal and vertical 
lines intersecting at the mouse pointer hotpoint.

Thanks,... P.



- 
mobile: +1 778 951 5147
VoIP:   +1 604 670 0140

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 6:03 PM zithro  wrote:

> On 11 Aug 2023 23:39, gene heskett wrote:
> > No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all
> > the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least
> > a decade.
>
> With all due respect, can you stop spreading misinformation to this list ?
> Not only this has nothing to do with unsubscribing to the ML, but it
> just shows that you don't get what you're talking about.
> Are you really an engineer ?!
>
> This extends to : DONT FOLLOW TUTORIALS THAT WONT EXPLAIN THE **WHY**
>
> Also, I admire dedicated people on this ML ...
> It's only 3 months I'm following it regularly, to learn things about
> Debian.
> What did I learn ? Random people SUCK. Big time


Who is a random person to you? You’re new to this list, so you have no clue
who is who here.

Re: Sound loses my analog speakers after suspend, and power settings don't affect monitor poweroff

[Carl Fink]

On 8/10/23 02:54, Marco wrote:

Am 09.08.2023 schrieb Carl Fink :


I suspended my system from the System menu Monday night. When I woke
it up Tuesday morning, sound was coming from the HDMI monitor. The
Sound Settings didn't know about any other sound system.

This sounds like a driver problem with the soundcard. HDMI is realized
with the graphics card, analog with a onboard sound card, mostly
integrated into the chipset.

Run lspci -nnk
when it works and when it doesn't work.


Thanks. I did just that, and I attach the output of both commands here.

I switched from Mate to xfce4, which didn't affect anything from my 
previous

message. The sound subsystem still forgets the external speakers exist. No
matter what power settings I use, they don't shut off the monitors. I am
thinking this is likely to be related to the power management system, rather
than the sound support built into the Ryzen 6800.

-Carl Fink

00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Root Complex [1022:14b5] (rev 01)
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe Root Complex 
[1043:8870]
00:00.2 IOMMU [0806]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h IOMMU 
[1022:14b6]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h IOMMU [1043:8870]
00:01.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14b7] (rev 01)
00:01.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14ba]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe GPP Bridge 
[1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:02.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14b7] (rev 01)
DeviceName:  Onboard IGD
00:02.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14ba]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe GPP Bridge 
[1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:02.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14ba]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe GPP Bridge 
[1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:02.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14ba]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe GPP Bridge 
[1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:02.4 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14ba]
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Family 17h-19h PCIe GPP Bridge 
[1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:03.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14b7] (rev 01)
00:03.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 19h 
USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel [1022:14cd]
Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 19h 
USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel [1022:1453]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:04.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14b7] (rev 01)
00:04.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 19h 
USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel [1022:14cd]
Subsystem: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 19h 
USB4/Thunderbolt PCIe tunnel [1022:1453]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:08.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
PCIe Dummy Host Bridge [1022:14b7] (rev 01)
00:08.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
Internal PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14b9] (rev 10)
Subsystem: Device [8870:1043]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:08.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 17h-19h 
Internal PCIe GPP Bridge [1022:14b9] (rev 10)
Subsystem: Device [8870:1043]
Kernel driver in use: pcieport
00:14.0 SMBus [0c05]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH SMBus Controller 
[1022:790b] (rev 71)
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. FCH SMBus Controller [1043:8870]
Kernel driver in use: piix4_smbus
Kernel modules: i2c_piix4, sp5100_tco
00:14.3 ISA bridge [0601]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] FCH LPC Bridge 
[1022:790e] (rev 51)
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. FCH LPC Bridge [1043:8870]
00:18.0 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Rembrandt Data 
Fabric: Device 18h; Function 0 [1022:1679]
00:18.1 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Rembrandt Data 
Fabric: Device 18h; Function 1 [1022:167a]
00:18.2 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Rembrandt Data 
Fabric: Device 18h; Function 2 [1022:167b]
00:18.3 Host bridge [0600]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Rembrandt Data 
Fabric: Device 18h; Function 3 [1022:167c]
Kernel driver in use: k10temp
Kernel modules: 

List administrators - request for intervention - was - Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Bret Busby]

On 12/8/23 08:08, zithro wrote:

On 11 Aug 2023 23:39, gene heskett wrote:
No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all 
the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at 
least a decade.


With all due respect, can you stop spreading misinformation to this list ?
Not only this has nothing to do with unsubscribing to the ML, but it 
just shows that you don't get what you're talking about.

Are you really an engineer ?!

This extends to : DONT FOLLOW TUTORIALS THAT WONT EXPLAIN THE **WHY**

Also, I admire dedicated people on this ML ...
It's only 3 months I'm following it regularly, to learn things about 
Debian.

What did I learn ? Random people SUCK. Big time.

But I guess it's the XXI century plague.
People using other people's time to spare their own.

Sorry for the noise, if you get that oxymoron ;)


Hello.

Could the List administrators please shut down both this thread and the 
"unubscribe" thread?


I believe that sufficient has been said, and, enough faecal matter has 
been spread (and, I am not referring to the poster above, in that), and, 
explicit instructions for how to unsubscribe, have been posted, and, if 
some subscribers need to be told how to input the name of this mailing 
list ("If you look at that black rectangle in front of you, with those 
white markings on it, that is named a keyboard. On that thing, if you 
look along the rows of the markings, you should be able to see one 
marking, that looks a bit like a half circle on the right hand side, 
and, it has a straight line running up the left had side of that half 
circle. that marking is named a 'D'. If you press that, you should be 
able to see  the 'd' character on you computer screen. Can you see that? 
Very good. Now, the next  marking to look for, is for an "E". That is 
the next character in the name of the mailing list"), then, perhaps, 
they need help, that is more than how to unsubscribe from the mailing 
list, and, both threads have been made to descend into the ridiculous, 
and, have started invoking ill-will, that helps no-one.


So, please, shut the two threads down, so the mailing list can return to 
the subject matter for which the list was created and is maintained; 
discussion of the use of Debian, and, seeking help with the operating 
system, and, not the extraneous (extreme euphemism) "stuff", that has 
arisen, like a living, growing, cesspool.


Thank you in anticipation

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[zithro]

On 11 Aug 2023 23:39, gene heskett wrote:
No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all 
the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least 
a decade.


With all due respect, can you stop spreading misinformation to this list ?
Not only this has nothing to do with unsubscribing to the ML, but it 
just shows that you don't get what you're talking about.

Are you really an engineer ?!

This extends to : DONT FOLLOW TUTORIALS THAT WONT EXPLAIN THE **WHY**

Also, I admire dedicated people on this ML ...
It's only 3 months I'm following it regularly, to learn things about Debian.
What did I learn ? Random people SUCK. Big time.

But I guess it's the XXI century plague.
People using other people's time to spare their own.

Sorry for the noise, if you get that oxymoron ;)

--
++
zithro / Cyril

Re: Weird messages on logs.

[Maureen L Thomas]

On 8/10/23 10:44 PM, Maureen L Thomas wrote:



Sorry, it was late when I posted this.  I am using Bookworm and 
checked the log not figuring on finding anything and found this.  My 
system has been upgrade to the last fixes for Bookworm.  I am using a 
Lanova all in one machine.  2TB hard drive with 8 for ram.


Moe

On 8/8/23 7:57 AM, Henning Follmann wrote:

On Tue, Aug 08, 2023 at 12:01:08AM -0400, Maureen L Thomas wrote:

 3:24:29 PM systemd: Failed to start tracker-extract-3.service - Tracker
metadata extractor.
 3:24:29 PM systemd: Failed to start tracker-extract-3.service - Tracker
metadata extractor.
 3:23:59 PM systemd: Failed to start tracker-extract-3.service - Tracker
metadata extractor.
 3:23:29 PM systemd: Failed to start
app-gnome-gnome\x2dkeyring\x2dsecrets-1958.scope - Application launched by
gnome-session-binary.
 3:23:29 PM systemd: Failed to start
app-gnome-gnome\x2dkeyring\x2dpkcs11-1959.scope - Application launched by
gnome-session-binary.

  These are the message I have in my logs.  I have no idea what it is about.
I would appreciate any help from you guys.

Thanks

Moe

Hello,
what release is this on?
On Buster I had also some issues with tracker mainly due to apparmor
missing some rules. I have not seen this so far on Bullseye.
-H

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Bret Busby]

On 12/8/23 06:45, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 05:39:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/11/23 14:25, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]


The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.


Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:


No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all the
bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least a
decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would take eons to
guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.


Your bank's authentication policy has NOTHING AT ALL to do with
unsubscribing from a mailing list.



And, I fail to see how a web browser version or operating system version 
influences the response to a subscriber doing as instructed;


"
To subscribe to or unsubscribe from a mailing list, please send mail to

-requ...@lists.debian.org

with the word subscribe or unsubscribe as subject.
"



I say again - "If all else fails, follow the instructions.".

Simple.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 05:39:28PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/11/23 14:25, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> > > different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.
> > 
> > Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:
> > 
> No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all the
> bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least a
> decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would take eons to
> guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.

Your bank's authentication policy has NOTHING AT ALL to do with
unsubscribing from a mailing list.

Re: Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[gene heskett]

On 8/11/23 14:25, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]


The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.


Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:

No its not Tomas, everytime ff issues an update, I have to go thru all 
the bs of proving I am me to my bank, and its been that way for at least 
a decade. The fact that I have a nearly 30 character pw it would take 
eons to guess, doesn't mean a thing to them.



  1. you send the mailing list software an unsubscription
request for a specific mail address: either by sending
a mail or by performing a HTTP GET on a specific URL
(aka "clicking on a link")

  2. the mailing list software sends a mail (containing a
token) to confirm the unsubscription request; you can
again reply by mail or "click on a link" (see above).
In both cases, the confirmation contains this token.

Note that it is in step 2 where you prove that you have "control
over the mail address in question", meaning that you can read
mails sent to this address, because otherwise you wouldn't know
the token.

No browser identification or other mysterious OS stuff going on
here. Plain, simple and working since 30-40 years.

The only way you can "lose" the capability to unsubscribe is
if you "lose control" over your mail addres. But then, Someone
Else is getting the debian-user@ mails, and unsubscription
becomes Someone Else's problem. Big deal.

The only way Someone Else can unsubscribe you from debian-user@
is if Someone Else has read access to your inbox. But then, if
you don't trust Someone Else, you've got bigger troubles than
Just Being Unsubscribed From Some Random Public Mailing List.

furrfu.

Cheers


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Brad Rogers]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 09:40:54 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

Hello Charles,
>Possibly. Although in the past, having sent a similar email, I have
>actually gotten acknowledgments from the offender.

It does happen, yes. IME, though, it is rare.

>I responded as I did in order to teach not only the OP but anyone else
>reading the traffic a useful general lesson; one that may apply to
>multiple list servers.

Indeed.  I never meant to disparage yourself or others with similar
intentions.  However, with no further activity, thus far, from OP the
likelihood of seeing one is diminishing.  Of course, that may mean
they're successfully unsubbed already.

>> Best course of action is to quietly unsubscribe user ASAP.  Of course,
>> that requires somebody with suitable list management access rights.  
>If you want to do so, and have suitable access, feel free to do so.

I wish I did.  And I would have done so.  It may have happened already
anyway.  Although under such circumstances, I'd have liked to have seen
a notification to that effect.  It would put an end to the topic. Which,
to my shame, I'm not helping to do.

>To paraphrase an ancient aphorism, unsubscribe a man once, and you have
>unsubscribed him. Teach a man how to unsubscribe, and you have
>unsubscribed him many times.

A method I approve of, and use myself in most circumstances.  That said,
I've seen the same imperfect unsub practice by various ppl in multiple
places.  Some people, it seems, are unwilling to learn.   :-(

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
People stare like they've seen a ghost
Titanic (My Over) Reaction - 999


pgpiE3GogAcHs.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Why or why not back up "/lost+found"

[Default User]

On Fri, 2023-08-11 at 14:45 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:30:13PM +0100,
> debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > One other consideration that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in
> > this
> > thread is what happens if you back up filesystems to filesystems?
> 
> I never use the backup's medium top-level dir as a target. In my
> current
> usage, that's how my medium looks like:
> 
>   tomas@trotzki:~$ ls -l /media/backup
>   total 20
>   drwx-- 2 root root 16384 Aug 27  2022 lost+found
>   drwxr-xr-x 4 root root  4096 Aug 27  2022 trotzki
> 
> ...so there's a top-level dir named after the "client" host. My
> backup
> scripts gets a positive list of things to back up -- and I sprinkle
> files named .backup-filter for more control (I tell rsync about
> that).
> 
> Simple, effective. Putting tons of "--exclude" and things into the
> command line will drive you crazy after a while :)
> 
> Cheers


Hi! 

Just a clarification, FWIW. 

I earlier stated that I back up to:
/media/[user]/MSD1

I actually back up to:
/media/[user]/MSD1/rsnapshot_backups_of_[host]
which is of course a sub-directory of /media/[user]/MSD1. 

Anyway, from now on, I am going to explicitly exclude all "lost+found"
directories from being backed up. 

Thank you to all who weighed in on this!

Mailing list unsubscription requests and identificatio

[tomas]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:59:14AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a
> different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.

Sorry, Gene, this is plain wrong. The way it works is this:

 1. you send the mailing list software an unsubscription
   request for a specific mail address: either by sending
   a mail or by performing a HTTP GET on a specific URL
   (aka "clicking on a link")

 2. the mailing list software sends a mail (containing a
   token) to confirm the unsubscription request; you can
   again reply by mail or "click on a link" (see above).
   In both cases, the confirmation contains this token.

Note that it is in step 2 where you prove that you have "control
over the mail address in question", meaning that you can read
mails sent to this address, because otherwise you wouldn't know
the token.

No browser identification or other mysterious OS stuff going on
here. Plain, simple and working since 30-40 years.

The only way you can "lose" the capability to unsubscribe is
if you "lose control" over your mail addres. But then, Someone
Else is getting the debian-user@ mails, and unsubscription
becomes Someone Else's problem. Big deal.

The only way Someone Else can unsubscribe you from debian-user@
is if Someone Else has read access to your inbox. But then, if
you don't trust Someone Else, you've got bigger troubles than
Just Being Unsubscribed From Some Random Public Mailing List.

furrfu.

Cheers
-- 
tomás


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Bret Busby]

On 11/8/23 23:46, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

Am 11/08/2023 um 14:26 schrieb Greg Wooledge:

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +, davidson wrote:

I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
straight to

  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org


Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
in the future.




UNUBSCRIBE




Eh wot?

Am you wont to unubscribe tu?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Bret Busby]

On 11/8/23 21:52, davidson wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:

On 11/8/23 14:49, Luna Jernberg wrote:

Or one could unsubscribe using the web interface here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/



"If all else fails, follow the instructions"

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#subunsub

"
Subscription / Unsubscription

Anyone is able to subscribe/unsubscribe on their own to any mailing 
list, presuming the subscription policy for a particular list is open.

[snip]
The requests for subscription or unsubscription can also be sent by 
email, to a special control address, which is slightly different from 
the lists address. Subscription or unsubscription messages should NOT 
be sent to the address of the mailing list itself.


To subscribe to or unsubscribe from a mailing list, please send mail to

-requ...@lists.debian.org

with the word subscribe or unsubscribe as subject.


I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
straight to

  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org


Please remember the -REQUEST part of the address.

As part of the subscription process, the list software will send you 
an email to which you must reply in order to finish subscribing. This 
is a security measure to keep people from subscribing others to the 
lists without their permission.

"


OP would then get a confirmation email, and problem solved.

NOTES

1. From Alpine's help page on bouncing:

The Bounce (B) command allows you to re-send, or "remail", a message,
as if you were never in the loop. It is analogous to crossing out your
address on a postal letter, writing a different address on the
envelope, and putting it into the mailbox. Bounce is used primarily to
redirect email that was sent to you in error. Also, some owners of
email lists need the bounce command to handle list traffic. Bounce is
not anonymous. A ReSent-From header is added to the message so that
the recipient may tell that you Bounced it to them.



Thank you for that.

I am an alpine user (and pine before alpine), and I did not know of this 
functionality.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Oddity when accessing Courier IMAP from Android

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 11.08.2023 19:09, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

I am running a Courier IMAP server on Bookworm.

When accessing from mutt, Thunderbird, and Android (GMail app),
everything works fine. This is over SSL, with a server certificate I
have issued from my own CA and with the CA root cert distributed to all
client devices which access the IMAP server.

However, on one particular Android device, I have started to observe
that my account no longer refreshes and when I look in the server logs,
I see a LOGIN, followed by "Unexpected SSL connection shutdown" followed
immediately by a DISCONNECT.

I have seen various postings online about this, but they are mostly from
10+ years ago and have to do with things like people forgetting to trust
the certificate and things of that nature.

I'm wondering if anyone has any sort of thought on what might result in
a single device experiencing this problem when other devices are able to
access the server and the account without issue.

Regards,

-Roberto

It could go wrong for many reasons. Could be a broken SSL\TLS 
implementation on that Android device, which usually fixed by firmware 
updates.
There also support for different ciphers and SSL\TLS versions. Many of 
them are outdated by today's standards and your Android device is 
essentially frozen in time.
I have functional Android device which is no longer supported by Google 
services and refuses to connect to any websites via HTTPS, mostly 
because of outdated Root CA certificates, but it also refuses to connect 
to my Samba server for some reason.
I suggest to look for a way to enable debug mode for Courier server and 
look for clues in logs.



--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[debian-user]

Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +, davidson wrote:
> > I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's
> > mail straight to
> > 
> >  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org  
> 
> Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
> someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
> in the future.

The OP hasn't even learned how to spell, let alone anything more
complicated :)

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Charles Curley]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 15:54:58 +0100
Brad Rogers  wrote:

> Since the OP wants out, I'd have thought it /extremely/ unlikely
> they'll read any on-list replies.
> 
> The usual behaviour seems to be;
> 
> 1. send (misspelled) an unsubscribe message to list.
> 2. keep receiving messages due to people (understandably) trying to
> help out OP.
> 3. block messages from list and report list address as spam to as many
> places as possible.

Possibly. Although in the past, having sent a similar email, I have
actually gotten acknowledgments from the offender.

I responded as I did in order to teach not only the OP but anyone else
reading the traffic a useful general lesson; one that may apply to
multiple list servers.


> 
> Best course of action is to quietly unsubscribe user ASAP.  Of course,
> that requires somebody with suitable list management access rights.

If you want to do so, and have suitable access, feel free to do so.

To paraphrase an ancient aphorism, unsubscribe a man once, and you have
unsubscribed him. Teach a man how to unsubscribe, and you have
unsubscribed him many times.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 22:12:30 -0600
Charles Curley  wrote:

Hello Charles,

>You would probably do better to send that to a special email address

Since the OP wants out, I'd have thought it /extremely/ unlikely they'll
read any on-list replies.

The usual behaviour seems to be;

1. send (misspelled) an unsubscribe message to list.
2. keep receiving messages due to people (understandably) trying to
help out OP.
3. block messages from list and report list address as spam to as many
places as possible.

Best course of action is to quietly unsubscribe user ASAP.  Of course,
that requires somebody with suitable list management access rights.

-- 
 Regards  _   "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway
(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais - The Clash


pgpDvykdFhsbD.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[gene heskett]

On 8/11/23 10:26, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +, davidson wrote:

I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
straight to

  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org


Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
in the future.

The recommended procedure usually works, unless the user is now using a 
different browser or has installed a new version of the OS.  Then the 
comparison to determine the user is who he claims to be will fail, and 
so will the unsub.  We've been battling this browser id thing for close 
to 20 years, but no solution that actually works 100% has been developed.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:52:53PM +, davidson wrote:
> I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
> straight to
> 
>  debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Except then the user would not learn how to unsubscribe correctly, and
someone would have to keep doing it for them every time this comes up
in the future.

Oddity when accessing Courier IMAP from Android

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

I am running a Courier IMAP server on Bookworm.

When accessing from mutt, Thunderbird, and Android (GMail app),
everything works fine. This is over SSL, with a server certificate I
have issued from my own CA and with the CA root cert distributed to all
client devices which access the IMAP server.

However, on one particular Android device, I have started to observe
that my account no longer refreshes and when I look in the server logs,
I see a LOGIN, followed by "Unexpected SSL connection shutdown" followed
immediately by a DISCONNECT.

I have seen various postings online about this, but they are mostly from
10+ years ago and have to do with things like people forgetting to trust
the certificate and things of that nature.

I'm wondering if anyone has any sort of thought on what might result in
a single device experiencing this problem when other devices are able to
access the server and the account without issue.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[davidson]

On Fri, 11 Aug 2023 Bret Busby wrote:

On 11/8/23 14:49, Luna Jernberg wrote:

Or one could unsubscribe using the web interface here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/



"If all else fails, follow the instructions"

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#subunsub

"
Subscription / Unsubscription

Anyone is able to subscribe/unsubscribe on their own to any mailing list, 
presuming the subscription policy for a particular list is open.

[snip]
The requests for subscription or unsubscription can also be sent by email, to 
a special control address, which is slightly different from the lists 
address. Subscription or unsubscription messages should NOT be sent to the 
address of the mailing list itself.


To subscribe to or unsubscribe from a mailing list, please send mail to

-requ...@lists.debian.org

with the word subscribe or unsubscribe as subject.


I guess this means that any of us could have bounced^[1] the OP's mail
straight to

 debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org


Please remember the -REQUEST part of the address.

As part of the subscription process, the list software will send you an email 
to which you must reply in order to finish subscribing. This is a security 
measure to keep people from subscribing others to the lists without their 
permission.

"


OP would then get a confirmation email, and problem solved.

NOTES

1. From Alpine's help page on bouncing:

The Bounce (B) command allows you to re-send, or "remail", a message,
as if you were never in the loop. It is analogous to crossing out your
address on a postal letter, writing a different address on the
envelope, and putting it into the mailbox. Bounce is used primarily to
redirect email that was sent to you in error. Also, some owners of
email lists need the bounce command to handle list traffic. Bounce is
not anonymous. A ReSent-From header is added to the message so that
the recipient may tell that you Bounced it to them.

--
Hackers are free people. They are like artists. If they are in a good
mood, they get up in the morning and begin painting their pictures.
-- Vladimir Putin

Re: Why or why not back up "/lost+found"

[tomas]

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 01:30:13PM +0100, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

[...]

> One other consideration that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in this
> thread is what happens if you back up filesystems to filesystems?

I never use the backup's medium top-level dir as a target. In my current
usage, that's how my medium looks like:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ ls -l /media/backup
  total 20
  drwx-- 2 root root 16384 Aug 27  2022 lost+found
  drwxr-xr-x 4 root root  4096 Aug 27  2022 trotzki

...so there's a top-level dir named after the "client" host. My backup
scripts gets a positive list of things to back up -- and I sprinkle
files named .backup-filter for more control (I tell rsync about that).

Simple, effective. Putting tons of "--exclude" and things into the
command line will drive you crazy after a while :)

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Why or why not back up "/lost+found"

[debian-user]

 wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2023 at 03:42:01PM -0400, Default User wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > When backing up my system I have been using this exclusions list: 
> > 
> > /dev/*
> > /proc/*
> > /sys/*
> > /tmp/*
> > /run/*
> > /mnt/*
> > /media/*
> > /lost+found
> > 
> > There are many sources online that suggest that "/lost+found"
> > should be excluded from backups, but I can't seem to find a good
> > explanation for why.  
> 
> Squinting the other way (which doesn't contradict what others have
> said in this thread): if you see anything in lost+found, the idea
> is that you do something about it (rescue it, throw it away). Thus,
> the content of lost+found is (or should be) as temporary as, say,
> /tmp. And you don't back up that.
> 
> So I'd tend to exclude the special "lost+found" dirs (perhaps not
> any dir called like that). But then, it's not that important.
> 
> Cheers

One other consideration that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere in this
thread is what happens if you back up filesystems to filesystems? That
is, if the backup for /home is an ext-? filesystem it may well already
have a /lost+found directory. That directory is hopefully empty but if
not then it contains data related to errors on the backup system, so
you do not want to overwrite it! I suspect that may be why it is
conventionally excluded from backups. It's normally empty so there's no
point in copying it. If there's anything in it on the original or the
backup, then that's a more urgent problem than a backup.

FWIW, I just don't use ext-? filesystems so I don't have to worry.

Re: X-post: Public library wifi oddity, Linux vs Android

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-08-11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

>>  "community" libraries offer free wifi, courtesy (?) of *cough* O2. Tech
>> support is non-existent. If it works it works, if it doesn't, tough.
>> The last few weeks I noticed wifi performance degrading. Today, I couldn't
>> even connect the wifi network.

I have the Intel Wireless 7265 and only installed debian packages. Why
install other things? They require to do so to be able to connect their
network?

Do you have some firewall setup? Do you have something in logs indicating
timeout or something else? Perhaps try tcpdump to see if something weird
use/block your network.

> Somebody suggested that the Wifi provider might have a rule in place whereas
> if they see "Linux", they would rate-limit  or throttle the connection.

Providers could rate-limit everybody. And also limit volume, and so block
once a limit is reached. Do you have an aggreement with some indications
on this?

Re: Banken en apps

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hoi Geert en anderen,

Op 11-08-2023 om 12:54 schreef Geert Stappers:


Subject: Re: [linux] "Internet" bankieren voortgangsbericht
Reply-To:
In-Reply-To: 


On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:41:32PM +0200, Harry Harmsen wrote:

Uiteraard benieuwd om welke bank het gaat


Hoeveel respect banken voor Internet hebben, gaan ze zelf vertellen.

Wat ik zie, zijn hulpeloze banken die van alles weggeven aan techreuzen.
En ik zie soms ook dat het minder triest is. Dat banken nog wel
wat zelf voor elkaar krijgen.


en waarom je niet met een app kunt/wilt werken.



Er zijn heel veel applicaties waarmee ik kan en wil werken.
En die apps heb ik zelf uitgezocht, heel soms ook zelf geschreven.
Vandaar dat ik het zo belangrijk vind dat source code beschikbaar is.


Ik denk hier hetzelfde over, en installeer alleen open source apps op 
mijn telefoon.


Wat ik ook nog wil is dat men derden niet weigert het te compileren en 
te distribueren, zoals bij Signal.


Overigens bestaan er open source banking apps, maar ik heb daar nog geen 
ervaring mee.


Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Re: [linux] "Internet" bankieren voortgangsbericht

[harry . harmsen]

Uiteraard benieuwd om welke bank het gaat en waarom je niet met een app
kunt/wilt werken.


Groet,
Harry Harmsen
Assen


Op vr 11 aug 2023 om 12:37 schreef Geert Stappers via Linux <
li...@lists.nllgg.nl>:

> Hoi,
>
>
> Lang geleden vond mijn toenmalige bank dat ik hun gekozen webbrowser
> moest gebruiken.  Ik ben van bank gewisseld.
>
> Minder lang geleden was ik bij mijn bank voor een nieuwe batterij
> voor het authenticatieaparaatje. Of ik een smartphone heb, was
> de wedervraag. Met toevoeging dat er een "app" is. Ik ben de bank
> uitgelopen.
>
> Met "low battery" op de authenticator her en der ge-informeerd
> wat mijn mogelijkheden zijn. Andere uitdagingen gevonden.
>
> Afgelopen weekend was de batterij helemaal leeg. Niet online het kaartje
> kunnen kopen wat ik graag had. Wel "Komt goed uit dat ik vrijdag vrij
> ben".
>
> Vandaag bank bezocht:
> B: Goede dag, hoe kan ik U helpen?
> I: Ik wil weer banktransacties kunnen doen, batterij van dit dingetje is
> leeg.
> B: Daar gaan we afscheid van nemem.  Er is nu  banknaam-app.
> I: banknaam-app?
> B: Ja, de banknaam-app
> I: Vertel eens meer over banknaam-app
> Bankmedewerker vertelde verhaaltje wat ik vol ongeloof aanhoorde.
> I: Dus ik moet eerst weg naar andere winkel, daar wat kopen
>en dan mag ik terugkomen?
> Bankmedewerker vond het minder erg, want digitale winkels.
> I: Het gaat tussen jullie en mij, laat andere winkels er buiten.
> B: Er is ook browser code
> I: Vertel eens meer over browser code
> Bankmedewerker vertelde dat het inlogscherm (op website) onder de
> de grote knoppen ook nog andere opties heeft.
>
> Met een goed gevoel weer naar huis gegaan.
>
> Thuis met webbrowser website bank bezocht en mijzelf ge-identificeerd
> met behulp van controle-codes terugsturen die de bank mij gestuurd
> over andere kanalen dan webbrowser.
>
> En jawel ik kan weer Internet bankieren.
> Dus zonder flauwekul van "apps".
>
>
> Groeten
> Geert Stappers
> Kan vandaag andere dingen doen dan met haast een betere bank zoeken
> --
> Silence is hard to parse
>

Re: "Internet" bankieren voortgangsbericht

[Paul van der Vlis]

Hoi Geert en anderen,

Op 11-08-2023 om 12:37 schreef Geert Stappers:

Hoi,


Lang geleden vond mijn toenmalige bank dat ik hun gekozen webbrowser
moest gebruiken.  Ik ben van bank gewisseld.

Minder lang geleden was ik bij mijn bank voor een nieuwe batterij
voor het authenticatieaparaatje. Of ik een smartphone heb, was
de wedervraag. Met toevoeging dat er een "app" is. Ik ben de bank
uitgelopen.

Met "low battery" op de authenticator her en der ge-informeerd
wat mijn mogelijkheden zijn. Andere uitdagingen gevonden.

Afgelopen weekend was de batterij helemaal leeg. Niet online het kaartje
kunnen kopen wat ik graag had. Wel "Komt goed uit dat ik vrijdag vrij
ben".

Vandaag bank bezocht:
B: Goede dag, hoe kan ik U helpen?
I: Ik wil weer banktransacties kunnen doen, batterij van dit dingetje is leeg.
B: Daar gaan we afscheid van nemem.  Er is nu  banknaam-app.
I: banknaam-app?
B: Ja, de banknaam-app
I: Vertel eens meer over banknaam-app
Bankmedewerker vertelde verhaaltje wat ik vol ongeloof aanhoorde.
I: Dus ik moet eerst weg naar andere winkel, daar wat kopen
en dan mag ik terugkomen?
Bankmedewerker vond het minder erg, want digitale winkels.
I: Het gaat tussen jullie en mij, laat andere winkels er buiten.
B: Er is ook browser code
I: Vertel eens meer over browser code
Bankmedewerker vertelde dat het inlogscherm (op website) onder de
de grote knoppen ook nog andere opties heeft.

Met een goed gevoel weer naar huis gegaan.

Thuis met webbrowser website bank bezocht en mijzelf ge-identificeerd
met behulp van controle-codes terugsturen die de bank mij gestuurd
over andere kanalen dan webbrowser.

En jawel ik kan weer Internet bankieren.
Dus zonder flauwekul van "apps".


Het zal wel een Volksbank-label zijn (ASN, SNS, of Regiobank).

Je moet wel hun cookies bewaren, anders mag je je elke keer weer 
identificeren.


Verder kun je geen hoge bedragen overmaken. Standaard niet meer dan 1000 
euro per dag, dit is te verhogen tot 5000 euro.

En hoe veilig het nu is?  Discutabel.

Groet,
Paul

--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Banken en apps

[Geert Stappers]

Subject: Re: [linux] "Internet" bankieren voortgangsbericht
Reply-To: 
In-Reply-To: 


On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:41:32PM +0200, Harry Harmsen wrote:
> Uiteraard benieuwd om welke bank het gaat

Hoeveel respect banken voor Internet hebben, gaan ze zelf vertellen.

Wat ik zie, zijn hulpeloze banken die van alles weggeven aan techreuzen.
En ik zie soms ook dat het minder triest is. Dat banken nog wel
wat zelf voor elkaar krijgen.

> en waarom je niet met een app kunt/wilt werken.


Er zijn heel veel applicaties waarmee ik kan en wil werken.
En die apps heb ik zelf uitgezocht, heel soms ook zelf geschreven.
Vandaar dat ik het zo belangrijk vind dat source code beschikbaar is.


Groeten
Geert Stappers
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

"Internet" bankieren voortgangsbericht

[Geert Stappers]

Hoi,


Lang geleden vond mijn toenmalige bank dat ik hun gekozen webbrowser
moest gebruiken.  Ik ben van bank gewisseld.

Minder lang geleden was ik bij mijn bank voor een nieuwe batterij
voor het authenticatieaparaatje. Of ik een smartphone heb, was
de wedervraag. Met toevoeging dat er een "app" is. Ik ben de bank
uitgelopen.

Met "low battery" op de authenticator her en der ge-informeerd
wat mijn mogelijkheden zijn. Andere uitdagingen gevonden.

Afgelopen weekend was de batterij helemaal leeg. Niet online het kaartje
kunnen kopen wat ik graag had. Wel "Komt goed uit dat ik vrijdag vrij
ben".

Vandaag bank bezocht:
B: Goede dag, hoe kan ik U helpen?
I: Ik wil weer banktransacties kunnen doen, batterij van dit dingetje is leeg.
B: Daar gaan we afscheid van nemem.  Er is nu  banknaam-app.
I: banknaam-app?
B: Ja, de banknaam-app
I: Vertel eens meer over banknaam-app
Bankmedewerker vertelde verhaaltje wat ik vol ongeloof aanhoorde.
I: Dus ik moet eerst weg naar andere winkel, daar wat kopen
   en dan mag ik terugkomen?
Bankmedewerker vond het minder erg, want digitale winkels.
I: Het gaat tussen jullie en mij, laat andere winkels er buiten.
B: Er is ook browser code
I: Vertel eens meer over browser code
Bankmedewerker vertelde dat het inlogscherm (op website) onder de
de grote knoppen ook nog andere opties heeft.

Met een goed gevoel weer naar huis gegaan.

Thuis met webbrowser website bank bezocht en mijzelf ge-identificeerd
met behulp van controle-codes terugsturen die de bank mij gestuurd
over andere kanalen dan webbrowser.

En jawel ik kan weer Internet bankieren.
Dus zonder flauwekul van "apps".


Groeten
Geert Stappers
Kan vandaag andere dingen doen dan met haast een betere bank zoeken
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: rtkit-daemon problemen

[Cecil Westerhof]

Floris Renaud  writes:

> Het rtkit pakket is een aanbevolen afhankelijkheid van pulseaudio en/of
> pipewire.
> Als ik de processen bekijk waarop de rtkit-deamon toezicht houdt, dan
> hebben ze, bij mij, allemaal met de geluidsserver te maken:

Ik zie dat het ook met firefox te maken kan hebben:
# psPid 2493645
USER PIDPPID TT   START ELAPSED TIME STAT COMMAND
cecil2493645 2492101 pts/35   Aug07  3-23:37:56 00:01:39 Sl   
/usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr -contentproc -childID 21 -isForBrowser 
-prefsLen 61213 -prefMapSize 246767 -jsInitLen 277276 -parentB

psPid is een functie van mijn bash bibliotheek:
https://github.com/CecilWesterhof/BashLibrary

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: The Debian Administrator's Handbook

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 11-08-2023 om 10:41 schreef Cecil Westerhof:

Paul van der Vlis  writes:


Op 10-08-2023 om 14:44 schreef Cecil Westerhof:

Het lijkt me handig om wat dieper te duiken in Debian. Ik heb daarom
The Debian Administrator's Handbook gedownload. Die is echter in PDF
niet later als 10 beschikbaar. (Ik zie epub en mobipocket niet
zitten.) Ik gebruik 11 en moet eigenlijk overstappen op 12. Is het
handboek voor 10 goed genoeg, of zijn er grote verschillen?


Wel wat verschillen natuurlijk. Raar dat Debian 11 er niet in PDF is.
En ook de geprinte versie niet.

Misschien is converteren nog een optie?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/299747/converting-epub-files-to-pdf-format


Dat heb ik in het verleden weleens geprobeerd en gaf niet bijster
goede resultaten. Maar dat is best lang geleden, dus misschien is het
verbeterd. Maar als ik naar het verschil in grote kijk heb ik het
gevoel dat de PDF meer data bevat.
Ik probeer dan eerst maar de huidige versie en als ik er tegenaanloop
dat er te grote verschillen zijn, dan ga ik proberen te converteren.


Het wordt overigens bijgehouden in GIT:
https://salsa.debian.org/hertzog/debian-handbook

Ik zag dat het mogelijk is een PDF te maken in Debian 10, maar in 
nieuwere versies is er een probleem, een soort FTBFS:

https://salsa.debian.org/hertzog/debian-handbook/-/issues/49


Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Re: rtkit-daemon problemen

[Cecil Westerhof]

Floris Renaud  writes:

> Het rtkit pakket is een aanbevolen afhankelijkheid van pulseaudio en/of
> pipewire.
> Als ik de processen bekijk waarop de rtkit-deamon toezicht houdt, dan
> hebben ze, bij mij, allemaal met de geluidsserver te maken:
>
>
> journalctl -b0 -u rtkit-daemon -p info
> aug 11 09:11:43 Jessica systemd[1]: Starting rtkit-daemon.service -
> RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service...
> aug 11 09:11:43 Jessica systemd[1]: Started rtkit-daemon.service -
> RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service.
> aug 11 09:11:45 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1661 of process 1661 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:45 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1657 of process 1657 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1676 of process 1657 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1677 of process 1661 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1659 of process 1659 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1674 of process 1659 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 1673 of process 1660 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 2993 of process 2993 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 3008 of process 2993 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 2991 of process 2991 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 3010 of process 2991 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 2999 of process 2999 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 3014 of process 2999 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 3013 of process 2998 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 11:05:27 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 5735 of process 5710 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
> aug 11 11:25:21 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread
> 6284 of process 6261 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
>
>
>
> ps -p 1661
> PID TTY  TIME CMD
>1661 ?00:00:00 pipewire-pulse
>
>
> ps -p 2993
> PID TTY  TIME CMD
>2993 ?00:00:00 wireplumber
>
>
>
> ps -p 6261
> PID TTY  TIME CMD
>6261 ?00:00:00 mpv
>
> Of het verstandig is om rtkit te verwijderen, weet ik ook niet.
>
>> Ik zie met journalctl meldingen als:
>>rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Warning: Reached maximum concurrent process
>  limit for user '1000', denying request.
>
> Je zou het aantal processen moeten kunnen aanpassen in:
>  /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.RealtimeKit1.service
>
> De README van rtkit heeft hier meer informatie over.

Bedankt: ik duik erin.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: rtkit-daemon problemen

[Floris Renaud]

Het rtkit pakket is een aanbevolen afhankelijkheid van pulseaudio en/of 
pipewire.
Als ik de processen bekijk waarop de rtkit-deamon toezicht houdt, dan 
hebben ze, bij mij, allemaal met de geluidsserver te maken:



journalctl -b0 -u rtkit-daemon -p info
aug 11 09:11:43 Jessica systemd[1]: Starting rtkit-daemon.service - 
RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service...
aug 11 09:11:43 Jessica systemd[1]: Started rtkit-daemon.service - 
RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service.
aug 11 09:11:45 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1661 
of process 1661 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:45 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1657 
of process 1657 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1676 
of process 1657 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1677 
of process 1661 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1659 
of process 1659 owned by '111' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1674 
of process 1659 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:46 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 1673 
of process 1660 owned by '111' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 2993 
of process 2993 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 3008 
of process 2993 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 2991 
of process 2991 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 3010 
of process 2991 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 2999 
of process 2999 owned by '1000' high priority at nice level -11.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 3014 
of process 2999 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 09:11:58 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 3013 
of process 2998 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 11:05:27 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 5735 
of process 5710 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.
aug 11 11:25:21 Jessica rtkit-daemon[1061]: Successfully made thread 6284 
of process 6261 owned by '1000' RT at priority 20.




ps -p 1661
PID TTY  TIME CMD
   1661 ?00:00:00 pipewire-pulse


ps -p 2993
PID TTY  TIME CMD
   2993 ?00:00:00 wireplumber



ps -p 6261
PID TTY  TIME CMD
   6261 ?00:00:00 mpv

Of het verstandig is om rtkit te verwijderen, weet ik ook niet.

> Ik zie met journalctl meldingen als:
>rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Warning: Reached maximum concurrent process 
limit for user '1000', denying request.


Je zou het aantal processen moeten kunnen aanpassen in:
 /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.RealtimeKit1.service

De README van rtkit heeft hier meer informatie over.


--
Floris

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Bret Busby]

On 11/8/23 14:49, Luna Jernberg wrote:

Or one could unsubscribe using the web interface here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/



"If all else fails, follow the instructions"

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#subunsub

"
Subscription / Unsubscription

Anyone is able to subscribe/unsubscribe on their own to any mailing 
list, presuming the subscription policy for a particular list is open.


You can use simple web forms to subscribe or unsubscribe from individual 
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To subscribe or unsubscribe from multiple mailing lists at once, use the 
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The requests for subscription or unsubscription can also be sent by 
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the lists address. Subscription or unsubscription messages should NOT be 
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"

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: The Debian Administrator's Handbook

[Cecil Westerhof]

Paul van der Vlis  writes:

> Op 10-08-2023 om 14:44 schreef Cecil Westerhof:
>> Het lijkt me handig om wat dieper te duiken in Debian. Ik heb daarom
>> The Debian Administrator's Handbook gedownload. Die is echter in PDF
>> niet later als 10 beschikbaar. (Ik zie epub en mobipocket niet
>> zitten.) Ik gebruik 11 en moet eigenlijk overstappen op 12. Is het
>> handboek voor 10 goed genoeg, of zijn er grote verschillen?
>
> Wel wat verschillen natuurlijk. Raar dat Debian 11 er niet in PDF is.
> En ook de geprinte versie niet.
>
> Misschien is converteren nog een optie?
> https://askubuntu.com/questions/299747/converting-epub-files-to-pdf-format

Dat heb ik in het verleden weleens geprobeerd en gaf niet bijster
goede resultaten. Maar dat is best lang geleden, dus misschien is het
verbeterd. Maar als ik naar het verschil in grote kijk heb ik het
gevoel dat de PDF meer data bevat.
Ik probeer dan eerst maar de huidige versie en als ik er tegenaanloop
dat er te grote verschillen zijn, dan ga ik proberen te converteren.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: rtkit-daemon problemen

[Cecil Westerhof]

Paul van der Vlis  writes:

> Op 10-08-2023 om 12:11 schreef Cecil Westerhof:
>> Ik zie met journalctl meldingen als:
>>  rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Warning: Reached maximum concurrent
>> process limit for user '1000', denying request.
>> Dit is voor realtime behaviour als ik het goed begrijp. Volgens mij
>> heb ik dit helemaal niet geïnstalleerd. Is het een probleem als ik
>> rtkit verwijder? Moet ik me zorgen maken over deze meldingen?
>
> Ik kende dit proces ook niet, maar het blijkt bij mij ook op
> verschillende machines te draaien. Maar niet op alle.
>
> root@laptopp:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
> ● rtkit-daemon.service - RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service; disabled;
> vendor preset: enabled)
>  Active: active (running) since Mon 2023-07-03 18:17:21 CEST; 1
>  months 8 days ago
>
> root@server:/var/log# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
> ● rtkit-daemon.service - RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
>  Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service; enabled;
>  vendor preset: enabled)
>  Active: active (running) since Tue 2023-08-01 09:28:56 CEST; 1
>  weeks 3 days ago
>
> root@sigmund:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
> Unit rtkit-daemon.service could not be found.
>
> root@hosting:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemom
> Unit rtkit-daemom.service could not be found.

Bij mij worden er daadwerkelijk ook threads gesupervised:
● rtkit-daemon.service - RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service; enabled; 
vendor preset: enabled)
 Active: active (running) since Thu 2023-08-03 17:03:26 CEST; 1 weeks 0 
days ago
   Main PID: 1749779 (rtkit-daemon)
  Tasks: 3 (limit: 17837)
 Memory: 848.0K
CPU: 16.960s
 CGroup: /system.slice/rtkit-daemon.service
 └─1749779 /usr/libexec/rtkit-daemon

Aug 11 10:10:03 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:10:03 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:10:44 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:10:44 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:17:12 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:17:12 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:24:52 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:24:52 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:27:46 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.
Aug 11 10:27:46 munus.decebal.nl rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Supervising 15 
threads of 14 processes of 1 users.

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: rtkit-daemon problemen

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 10-08-2023 om 12:11 schreef Cecil Westerhof:

Ik zie met journalctl meldingen als:
 rtkit-daemon[1749779]: Warning: Reached maximum concurrent process limit 
for user '1000', denying request.

Dit is voor realtime behaviour als ik het goed begrijp. Volgens mij
heb ik dit helemaal niet geïnstalleerd. Is het een probleem als ik
rtkit verwijder? Moet ik me zorgen maken over deze meldingen?


Ik kende dit proces ook niet, maar het blijkt bij mij ook op 
verschillende machines te draaien. Maar niet op alle.


root@laptopp:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
● rtkit-daemon.service - RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service; 
disabled; vendor preset: enabled)
 Active: active (running) since Mon 2023-07-03 18:17:21 CEST; 1 
months 8 days ago


root@server:/var/log# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
● rtkit-daemon.service - RealtimeKit Scheduling Policy Service
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rtkit-daemon.service; enabled; 
vendor preset: enabled)
 Active: active (running) since Tue 2023-08-01 09:28:56 CEST; 1 
weeks 3 days ago


root@sigmund:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemon
Unit rtkit-daemon.service could not be found.

root@hosting:~# systemctl status rtkit-daemom
Unit rtkit-daemom.service could not be found.

Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Re: The Debian Administrator's Handbook

[Paul van der Vlis]

Op 10-08-2023 om 14:44 schreef Cecil Westerhof:

Het lijkt me handig om wat dieper te duiken in Debian. Ik heb daarom
The Debian Administrator's Handbook gedownload. Die is echter in PDF
niet later als 10 beschikbaar. (Ik zie epub en mobipocket niet
zitten.) Ik gebruik 11 en moet eigenlijk overstappen op 12. Is het
handboek voor 10 goed genoeg, of zijn er grote verschillen?


Wel wat verschillen natuurlijk. Raar dat Debian 11 er niet in PDF is.
En ook de geprinte versie niet.

Misschien is converteren nog een optie?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/299747/converting-epub-files-to-pdf-format

Groet,
Paul


--
Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer Groningen
https://vandervlis.nl/

Re: UNUBSCRIBE

[Luna Jernberg]

Or one could unsubscribe using the web interface here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/

Den fre 11 aug. 2023 kl 06:36 skrev Charles Curley
:
>
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 19:20:30 -0700
> glenn green  wrote:
>
> >
>
> You would probably do better to send that to a special email address
> intended for managing subscriptions. On most lists, you can find it by
> searching the headers (CTL-H on many mail readers) for "unsubscribe".
>
> --
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>