Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[jeremy ardley]

On 16/11/23 15:40, Tixy wrote:

On Thu, 2023-11-16 at 09:04 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:

My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an
exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options for
Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian.

Are these the usual SBC setup where you have to run the vendor kernel,
plus possibly other custom bits, or would pure Debian including kernel
run on them?



The FriendlyPC version run a vendor version of Debian with some packages 
especially compiled for the device such as ffmpeg and graphics drivers


Armbian is usually a bit slower in releases and produces a more 
canonical Debian version with differences in the SBC specific device 
drivers using dynamic overlays. Most packages are pure debian


The Armbian kernel is a variation on Debian but you can cross compile it 
on an X86 debian system if you need specific kernal mods - though 
generally the Armbian kernel doesn't need any changes.


This is from my Armbian Router using my fastest mirror which is in Singapore

root@edge:/etc/apt# cat sources.list
#deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 12.0.0 _Bookworm_ - Official amd64 DVD 
Binary-1 with firmware 20230610-10:23]/ bookworm main non-free-firm>


deb http://mirror.djvg.sg/debian/ bookworm main non-free-firmware
deb-src http://mirror.djvg.sg/debian/ bookworm main non-free-firmware

deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main 
non-free-firmware
deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security 
main non-free-firmware


# bookworm-updates, to get updates before a point release is made;
# see 
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_updates_and_backports

deb http://mirror.djvg.sg/debian/ bookworm-updates main non-free-firmware
deb-src http://mirror.djvg.sg/debian/ bookworm-updates main 
non-free-firmware


deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bookworm main contrib non-free


root@edge:/etc/apt/sources.list.d# cat armbian.list
deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/armbian.gpg] http://apt.armbian.com 
bookworm main bookworm-utils bookworm-desktop

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Tixy]

On Thu, 2023-11-16 at 09:04 +0800, jeremy ardley wrote:
> My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an 
> exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options for 
> Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian. 

Are these the usual SBC setup where you have to run the vendor kernel,
plus possibly other custom bits, or would pure Debian including kernel
run on them?

I'm currently running a Globalscale SheevaPlug and a DreamPlugs but
Debian support for the old ARM architecture is likely to end soon.
(Dropping it seems to come up each release, but so far they're still
releasing for it.)

-- 
Tixy

Re: OT Se Congela el sistema

[Camaleón]

El 2023-11-15 a las 22:49 +, José Manuel (Abogado) escribió:

> El 14/11/23 a las 11:42, Camaleón escribió:
> > El 2023-11-13 a las 17:50 +, José Manuel (Abogado) escribió:
> > 
> > > Disculpen si el problema no es de Debian, por si acaso he puesto OT. Mi
> > > Debian es el 12 (Bookworm)
> > > 
> > > Desde hace poco tiempo estando trabajando en el ordenador, si por 
> > > cualquier
> > > motivo debo ausentarme durante un tiempo, dejo el ordenador encendido y
> > > cuando vuelvo el sistema se ha congelado y tengo que apagarlo y volverlo a
> > > encender.
> > > 
> > > Si puede ser, me pueden indicar procedimientos para poder averiguar que es
> > > lo que pasa. Gracias de antemano
> > Para congelamientos, antes de nada siempre miro lo siguiente:
> > 
> > 1. ¿Funcionan la tecas REISUB, reinicia el equipo?
> > 2. ¿Puedo acceder y reiniciar desde SSH?
> > 
> > Si alguna de las dos respuestas es afirmativa, entonces lo que se queda
> > colgado es el entorno gráfico NO el kernel.
> > 
> > Se trata de ir averiguando qué genera el bloqueo (componente físico del
> > equipo, el kernel, en subsistema gráfico, configuración del entorno del
> > usaurio...) y a partir de ahí indagar más.
> > 
> > 
> Hola
> 
> Gracias por contestar.
> 
> A la 1º no hace nada.

Asegúrate de que hayas introducido la combinación de teclas 
correctamente en la secuencia apropiada «(Alt+Imp. Pant) REISUB»:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/REInicia_SUBnormal

No es sensillo, hay que mantener pulsadas las teclas Alt e Impr. Pant. 
y mientras las pulsas, secuencialmente ir pulsando las letras R E I S U 
B (pulsar/soltar). Lleva práctica :-)
 
> A la 2º estoy en ordenador personar que no esta en red
> 
> Seguiré mirando otros componentes

Conviene siempre tener un segundo equipo para casos de emergencia y 
habilitar ssh siempre al menos para acceso desde la red local.

Un portátil con Windows y Putty te serviría.

Sigue intentando con el reisub, si introduces la secuencia correcta y 
te reinicia el equipo, puedes descartar un problema del kernel.

También puedes tener algo en los registros del sistema relacionado con 
el bloqueo, revisa el journalctl completo (sin filtrar) de varias 
sesiones (journatctl -b -2). 

Puedes subir los registros a Debian paste para que lo revisemos.

https://paste.debian.net/

Saludos,

-- 
Camaleón 

Re: approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 07:14:04AM +0100, Kamil Jo?ca wrote:

Kamil Jo?ca  writes:


Charles Curley  writes:


On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 04:11:37 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:


root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
Unit approx.service could not be found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh#


Well, that's weird. I installed approx on a Debian 12 machine, and got
the same results you did. However:

root@tsalmoth:~# ll /lib/systemd/system/approx*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165 Feb 12  2023 '/lib/systemd/system/approx@.service'
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 167 Feb 12  2023  /lib/systemd/system/approx.socket
root@tsalmoth:~# systemctl status approx.service
Unit approx.service could not be found.


But here I cannot see approx.service, only approx@.service
(ie. service which can have multiple instances)


What if you issue:
systemctl status "approx@*.service"


It appears to run; no error message is produced, but no output, either.

But I am in not in familiar territory.

RLH

Re: approx in debian 12

[Kamil Jońca]

Kamil Jońca  writes:

> Charles Curley  writes:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 04:11:37 +
>> "Russell L. Harris"  wrote:
>>
>>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
>>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
>>> Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
>>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
>>> Unit approx.service could not be found.
>>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh#
>>
>> Well, that's weird. I installed approx on a Debian 12 machine, and got
>> the same results you did. However:
>>
>> root@tsalmoth:~# ll /lib/systemd/system/approx*
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165 Feb 12  2023 '/lib/systemd/system/approx@.service'
>> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 167 Feb 12  2023  /lib/systemd/system/approx.socket
>> root@tsalmoth:~# systemctl status approx.service
>> Unit approx.service could not be found.
>
> But here I cannot see approx.service, only approx@.service
> (ie. service which can have multiple instances)

What if you issue:
systemctl status "approx@*.service"

KJ

Re: approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

On Thu, Nov 16, 2023 at 07:48:44AM +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:

"Russell L. Harris"  writes:


root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
Unit approx.service could not be found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh#


Looks like there's a cron job and a socket for it in the package. So are
you sure you're even supposed to run it as a service? They do include an
approx@.service so you could run it as whichever user you want but it
makes me think that's not the idea here.

Maybe the documents in /usr/share/doc/approx give more information about
the intended usage. I've only taken a quick peek at the file list.


I am not familiar with the term "approx.service".  


I have not touched the approx server (running Debian 9) for a couple
of years or more.  It "just runs".  I have used the server without
change to the configuration files for netinstalls since Debian 8 or 9,
and the latest was to install Debian 12.

In the mirror selection of netinstall, I only have to type in the host
ip address and port:  "192.168.1.40:".

RLH

Re: approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:55:51PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

Do you really need approx if you have only the one machine?


I install Debian for friends.  They are amazed at how fast their old
Windows machines run with Debian.  And approx has been a time saver
for me.

In the network mirror configuration step, all I have to type in is:

192.168.1.40:

I have not touched the approx server for a couple of years.

RLH

Re: approx in debian 12

[Kamil Jońca]

Charles Curley  writes:

> On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 04:11:37 +
> "Russell L. Harris"  wrote:
>
>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
>> Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
>> Unit approx.service could not be found.
>> root@mollydew:/home/rlh#
>
> Well, that's weird. I installed approx on a Debian 12 machine, and got
> the same results you did. However:
>
> root@tsalmoth:~# ll /lib/systemd/system/approx*
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165 Feb 12  2023 '/lib/systemd/system/approx@.service'
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 167 Feb 12  2023  /lib/systemd/system/approx.socket
> root@tsalmoth:~# systemctl status approx.service
> Unit approx.service could not be found.

But here I cannot see approx.service, only approx@.service
(ie. service which can have multiple instances)


KJ

Re: approx in debian 12

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 05:42:57 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> Thanks for checking, Charles.  My schedule does not allow me to work
> on it until tomorrow evening.  However, can auto-apt-proxy be
> specified during mirror selection with a netinstall?

That I do not know. But the default port for approx is  so you
should be able to specify the approx server during the installation (or
preseed it). That will result in a "Acquire::http::Proxy" line in
/etc/apt/apt.conf similar to what I showed you earlier.

> That is my
> primary need and use for approx.
> 
> A friend gave me his old Windows XP machine.  I installed on it Debian
> 12 with XFCE desktop.  I intend to use it to replace an old machine on
> which is installed Debian 9, running a mail server (getmail) and an
> approx server.

Do you really need approx if you have only the one machine?


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Re: approx in debian 12

[Anssi Saari]

"Russell L. Harris"  writes:

> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
> Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
> Unit approx.service could not be found.
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh#

Looks like there's a cron job and a socket for it in the package. So are
you sure you're even supposed to run it as a service? They do include an
approx@.service so you could run it as whichever user you want but it
makes me think that's not the idea here.

Maybe the documents in /usr/share/doc/approx give more information about
the intended usage. I've only taken a quick peek at the file list.

Re: approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:23:45PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:18:09 -0700
Charles Curley  wrote:


One thing I didn't like is that approx appears to require fiddling
with sources.list. apt-cacher-ng simply requires setting a proxy
value, in its own file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. E.g.:

root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02proxy
Acquire::http::Proxy "http://aptcacher.localdomain:3142;;
root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d#


Or, even simpler, install auto-apt-proxy on your clients and let them
find your proxy. The package description says it works for approx. And
that worked!

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Thanks for checking, Charles.  My schedule does not allow me to work
on it until tomorrow evening.  However, can auto-apt-proxy be
specified during mirror selection with a netinstall?  That is my
primary need and use for approx.

A friend gave me his old Windows XP machine.  I installed on it Debian
12 with XFCE desktop.  I intend to use it to replace an old machine on
which is installed Debian 9, running a mail server (getmail) and an
approx server.

RLH

Re: approx in debian 12

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 22:18:09 -0700
Charles Curley  wrote:

> One thing I didn't like is that approx appears to require fiddling
> with sources.list. apt-cacher-ng simply requires setting a proxy
> value, in its own file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. E.g.:
> 
> root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02proxy 
> Acquire::http::Proxy "http://aptcacher.localdomain:3142;;
> root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# 

Or, even simpler, install auto-apt-proxy on your clients and let them
find your proxy. The package description says it works for approx. And
that worked!

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Re: approx in debian 12

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 04:11:37 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
> Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
> Unit approx.service could not be found.
> root@mollydew:/home/rlh#

Well, that's weird. I installed approx on a Debian 12 machine, and got
the same results you did. However:

root@tsalmoth:~# ll /lib/systemd/system/approx*
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165 Feb 12  2023 '/lib/systemd/system/approx@.service'
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 167 Feb 12  2023  /lib/systemd/system/approx.socket
root@tsalmoth:~# systemctl status approx.service
Unit approx.service could not be found.
root@tsalmoth:~# systemctl status approx.socket
● approx.socket - caching proxy server for Debian archive files
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/approx.socket; enabled; preset: 
enabled)
 Active: active (listening) since Wed 2023-11-15 21:48:27 MST; 1min 47s ago
   Docs: man:approx(8)
 Listen: [::]: (Stream)
   Accepted: 0; Connected: 0;
  Tasks: 0 (limit: 4469)
 Memory: 8.0K
CPU: 642us
 CGroup: /system.slice/approx.socket

Nov 15 21:48:27 tsalmoth systemd[1]: Listening on approx.socket - caching proxy 
server for Debian archive files.
root@tsalmoth:~# 

So it seems to be running.

I made a minimal effort get get it to work with no success. You may
have better luck than I.

One thing I didn't like is that approx appears to require fiddling with
sources.list. apt-cacher-ng simply requires setting a proxy value, in
its own file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. E.g.:

root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02proxy 
Acquire::http::Proxy "http://aptcacher.localdomain:3142;;
root@hawk:/etc/apt/apt.conf.d# 


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Re: Password managers

[Oliver Schode]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 21:58:17 -0500
 wrote:

>As it happens, pass(1) appeared to be precisely what I was looking for.
>My original code stores all passwords in a single file, whereas pass
>stores each password in a separate file. In addition, I don't need pass
>in order to decode the password files. If pass every goes away or
>disappears from the Debian repos, I can still fetch my passwords (and
>associated data). Plus, it will insert any line in the password file
>into the clipboard. And it's a terminal app. Yay.
>

Good to see there's still an option for every liking. Turns out my
expectations are not that far from yours, though gpg is a no-go for me
(hence almost all in-repo managers) and bash/git magic all but out of
the question for anyone also using mobile. I know it's not workable for
everyone, but if your usage of oldschool passwords is still manageable,
already decreasing and/or you're using them only where you really have
to, going stateless is another clean, quick and unbloated option:

https://www.lesspass.com/
https://github.com/lesspass/lesspass

Debian has "gokey", perhaps the exception I could use otherwise, same
principle but apparently very bare-bones, cannot say more about that.
I've been using lesspass for years, it means I'm not saving anything,
anywhere. Nothing can be stolen, lost, destroyed or has to be synced.
Passwords are computed each time by way of "site", "login" and my
master password, they can still be changed of course if I have to. For
many people, however, that gets unwieldy real fast as you have to
remember not only all site/login combinations but also specifics like
length, excluded symbols and possibly counter. So before long many
would start populating some kind of database anyway, defeating the
whole concept. On the other hand you can use it on the CLI too, there's
a Python module, though not in Debian, and the Web interface is quite
handy. F-Droid even has a (very simple) app for Android. It's not a
recommendation for you, as one cannot save let alone annotate anything,
but maybe someone else is interested. I'ver never been a fan of
managers, don't like to save stuff in the browser(s) and the idea of
pulling in 100 MiB or half of the wacky Qt cosmos just in order to save
a few phrases makes my nose bleed.


Oliver

Re: approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 07:41:03PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:39:32 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:


I installed approx in a Debian 12 system, but when I attempt to
restart it the error message appears "Unit approx.service not loaded."


Please show us a complete copy and paste of the transaction, from the
initial prompt and the command you entered, through to the following
prompt, inclusive.

Then, similarly for "systemctl status approx".

You may need to run "systemctl daemon-reload".



root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl daemon-reload
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl restart approx
Failed to restart approx.service: Unit approx.service not found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh# systemctl status approx
Unit approx.service could not be found.
root@mollydew:/home/rlh#

Re: approx in debian 12

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:39:32 +
"Russell L. Harris"  wrote:

> I installed approx in a Debian 12 system, but when I attempt to
> restart it the error message appears "Unit approx.service not loaded."

Please show us a complete copy and paste of the transaction, from the
initial prompt and the command you entered, through to the following
prompt, inclusive.

Then, similarly for "systemctl status approx".

You may need to run "systemctl daemon-reload".

> 
> The approx man page (dated May 2011) says that approx is invoked by
> inetd, but I think that in Debian 12 approx is invoked by systemctl or
> systemd.

Correct, unless you've done a systemdectomy. It will be controlled by
systemd. systemctl is a user tool for managing systemd.

> 
> synaptic indicates that systemctl is available, but not installed.

systemctl for use with systemd is provided by the systemd package. The
systemctl package conflicts with systemd. The systemctl package says, in
part,

Description: daemonless "systemctl" command to manage services
without systemd "systemctl" is a replacement command to control
system daemons without systemd. "systemctl" is useful in
application containers where systemd is not available to start/stop
services.

So if you have systemd installed, you don't want the systemctl package.

> 
> RLH
> 



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Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[jeremy ardley]

On 16/11/23 10:15, Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:04:55 +0800
jeremy ardley  wrote:


My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an
exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options
for Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian. They can provide a
network storage service as well as a highly capable firewall
Ipv4/IPv6 function,with  DNS, DHCP, mail gateway, VPN gateway etc.

These things cost under $100USD including a nice heatsink case and
8-16GB RAM.

Nice. Can you point me at any specific vendors? I found the four
US vendors mentioned in https://pcengines.ch/order.htm. You've already
mentioned Friendly Elec.
https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/category=69



The FriendlyElec boards are the most suitable as they have two or more 
LAN interfaces.


Alternatives are possible if you use a USB3 to LAN adaptor, so OrangePi 
and Rock Pi are options. The Orange Pi 5 is getting a lot of interest, 
but spec wise the FriendlyElec NanoPi devices equal or out perform it 
plus have multiple LAN


If I was after just a router I'd look at the NanoPi R6C 
https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product=69_id=291


or for a DMZ implementation with 3 LAN, NanoPi R6S 
https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product=69_id=289 
- which breaks the $100 barrier


You can even go down a notch and look at the R5 and R4 series, but the 
price difference is not that great


If you want a full fledged PC with inbuilt PCIe NVME Drive and two LANS  
and plugabble wifi the NanoPC-T6 fits the bill. 
https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product=69_id=292


(I have a T6 for development work, a M4V2 for a lan server, and an R4 
for router)

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 09:04:55 +0800
jeremy ardley  wrote:

> My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an 
> exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options
> for Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian. They can provide a
> network storage service as well as a highly capable firewall
> Ipv4/IPv6 function,with  DNS, DHCP, mail gateway, VPN gateway etc.
> 
> These things cost under $100USD including a nice heatsink case and 
> 8-16GB RAM.

Nice. Can you point me at any specific vendors? I found the four
US vendors mentioned in https://pcengines.ch/order.htm. You've already
mentioned Friendly Elec.
https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/category=69

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approx in debian 12

[Russell L. Harris]

I installed approx in a Debian 12 system, but when I attempt to
restart it the error message appears "Unit approx.service not loaded."

The approx man page (dated May 2011) says that approx is invoked by
inetd, but I think that in Debian 12 approx is invoked by systemctl or
systemd.

synaptic indicates that systemctl is available, but not installed.

RLH

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[jeremy ardley]

On 14/11/23 08:42, Dan Ritter wrote:
I bought one of these: 
https://www.amazon.com/Firewall-Appliance-HUNSN-Barebone-Storage/dp/B0B53MKZBX/ 
(4 x 2.5Gb NICs, N5105 CPU) -- I paid about $250 including 16GB RAM 
and a 500GB SSD. Works very nicely. For about $70 less you can get 
them with 2x 2.5Gb instead of 4; for a little more money you can get 
up to 5x 2.5Gb NICs. You can add wifi via a miniPCIe slot; I didn't 
bother. There are



The reality is that for a basic router function you don't need very much 
hardware and certainly don't need fans. All the commercial Chinese 
routers demonstrate that.


I've seen various comments on this thread advocating for NUC devices 
with and without fans. In my view they are way overkill.


I have progressed over a couple of decades with different fanless router 
technology starting with PCengines (current product is the APU2 
https://pcengines.ch/apu2.htm )


Since then I have used a variety of Chinese ARM based SBC computers with 
RAM as low as 512K. I changed them as networking speed increased and the 
current generations are now capable of running multiple 2.5G LAN 
interfaces and usually have USB3 interfaces and often HDMI


Some of them also provide inbuilt PCIe M.2 drive slots that run at very 
impressive transfer speeds.


My current favourites are RK3588 based CPU SBC devices which have an 
exceptionally fast set of CPUs, high speed networking, and options for 
Debian or Ubuntu or OpenWRT or Armbian. They can provide a network 
storage service as well as a highly capable firewall Ipv4/IPv6 
function,with  DNS, DHCP, mail gateway, VPN gateway etc.


These things cost under $100USD including a nice heatsink case and 
8-16GB RAM.


Incidentally I live in Australia and don't have airconditioning and it 
gets up to 35C inside some days. The units I use have never gone into 
thermal shutdown.

Re: Request advice on Optimal Combo-usage of Gmail and Mailman, as mentioned in Msg-Id. "2023/11/msg00443"

[Keith Bainbridge]

I've been using K9 for a while.

It does threading by dropping the thread into a new 'tree' similar to tbird's 
indenting of an open thread in its main tree, but in a side window where I 
scroll the thread and press back arrow when I want to close the thread. 

FairEmail does threading the same way. 
-- 
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithr...@gmail.com
+61 (0)447 667 468

UTC+ 10:00

From my Aphone 

On 14 November 2023 8:42:57 am AEDT, jeremy ardley  
wrote:
>
>On 14/11/23 02:30, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>> On 13/11/2023 14:50, Anssi Saari wrote:
>>> The Wanderer  writes:
>>> 
> And those are getting rare, I can't find a nice MUA for Android with
> proper threading.
 
 If you ever do find one, please let me know. The lack of such a thing is
 the primary reason why I don't do E-mail on Android *at all*.
>>> 
>>> Possibly FairEmail would fit the bill. They advertize "conversation
>>> threading" but I don't really if it's proper or not. The author is
>>> responsive though.
>> 
>> Unfortunately doesn't look like so, this "coversation" threading is what 
>> gmail does, a linear sequence of messages.
>
>
>I use Bluemail on android. It claims to do threading though I don't use it. 
>Bluemail seems competent.

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[gene heskett]

On 11/15/23 18:37, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

On 16.11.2023 03:46, Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:58:05 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:


16 years is a good amount of value. :)
Is it Pentium 4 on ITX motherboard?

Nope. FIT-PC, first iteration. Processor is an AMD Geode SBC.
https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=c256a73072


https://www.compulab.com/products/computer-on-modules/cm-iglx/#specs
x86 CPU 500Mhz, DDR1, IDE ATA-100, 100Mbit NIC and only 3-5W.
Cool stuff.
I've never seen them in the wild.


And dis-interesting also is that the Pricing etc list has zero prices.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 16.11.2023 03:46, Charles Curley wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:58:05 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:


16 years is a good amount of value. :)
Is it Pentium 4 on ITX motherboard?

Nope. FIT-PC, first iteration. Processor is an AMD Geode SBC.
https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=c256a73072


https://www.compulab.com/products/computer-on-modules/cm-iglx/#specs
x86 CPU 500Mhz, DDR1, IDE ATA-100, 100Mbit NIC and only 3-5W.
Cool stuff.
I've never seen them in the wild.

--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: OT Se Congela el sistema

[Abogado]

El 14/11/23 a las 11:42, Camaleón escribió:

El 2023-11-13 a las 17:50 +, José Manuel (Abogado) escribió:


Disculpen si el problema no es de Debian, por si acaso he puesto OT. Mi
Debian es el 12 (Bookworm)

Desde hace poco tiempo estando trabajando en el ordenador, si por cualquier
motivo debo ausentarme durante un tiempo, dejo el ordenador encendido y
cuando vuelvo el sistema se ha congelado y tengo que apagarlo y volverlo a
encender.

Si puede ser, me pueden indicar procedimientos para poder averiguar que es
lo que pasa. Gracias de antemano

Para congelamientos, antes de nada siempre miro lo siguiente:

1. ¿Funcionan la tecas REISUB, reinicia el equipo?
2. ¿Puedo acceder y reiniciar desde SSH?

Si alguna de las dos respuestas es afirmativa, entonces lo que se queda
colgado es el entorno gráfico NO el kernel.

Se trata de ir averiguando qué genera el bloqueo (componente físico del
equipo, el kernel, en subsistema gráfico, configuración del entorno del
usaurio...) y a partir de ahí indagar más.

Saludos,


Hola

Gracias por contestar.

A la 1º no hace nada.

A la 2º estoy en ordenador personar que no esta en red

Seguiré mirando otros componentes

--
Un saludo,
José Manuel
Gran Canaria/España

Si vas a escribir.. piensa en esto:
no digas nada que no sea mas precioso que el silencio!!!

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 01:58:05 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:

> 16 years is a good amount of value. :)
> Is it Pentium 4 on ITX motherboard?

Nope. FIT-PC, first iteration. Processor is an AMD Geode SBC.
https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=c256a73072

I did buy a spare hard drive for each, and I think all four of those are
in use. At the time 80 Gig hard drives were cheaper than the 60 Gig ones
that came with the computers, so I got a mild upgrade.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: OT Se Congela el sistema

[Abogado]

El 13/11/23 a las 21:38, JavierDebian escribió:



El 13/11/23 a las 14:50, José Manuel (Abogado) escribió:

Hola

Disculpen si el problema no es de Debian, por si acaso he puesto OT. 
Mi Debian es el 12 (Bookworm)


Desde hace poco tiempo estando trabajando en el ordenador, si por 
cualquier motivo debo ausentarme durante un tiempo, dejo el ordenador 
encendido y cuando vuelvo el sistema se ha congelado y tengo que 
apagarlo y volverlo a encender.


Si puede ser, me pueden indicar procedimientos para poder averiguar 
que es lo que pasa. Gracias de antemano




¿Tienes activo algún hibernador?
Los últimos cambios en systemd generan problemas.
Por ejemplo:
  TuxOnIce is no longer supported directly (via an out-of-tree patch)
  for hibernation. TuxOnIce users should instead use the environment
  variable $SYSTEMD_BYPASS_HIBERNATION_MEMORY_CHECK=1 (i.e.: set it on
  the kernel command line).

JAP


Hola

Gracias por contestar.

No que yo lo hay instalado. Si se ha instalado en alguna actualización 
no lo se.


--
Un saludo,
José Manuel
Gran Canaria/España

Si vas a escribir.. piensa en esto:
no digas nada que no sea mas precioso que el silencio!!!

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 15.11.2023 18:47, Charles Curley wrote:

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:31:52 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:


On 15.11.2023 07:56, Stefan Monnier wrote:
  [...]
  [...]
I wrote that email as a word of caution, because Roberto had
mentioned he is looking for the device with the same conditions as
OP, which is "no fans".
And this model will be very noisy at all times.

How do you figure that it will be noisy at all times? I saw noting in
the specifications or reviews that indicated that.

Are you talking about Neosmay based on i7-1260P CPU?
Like I said previously there are no reviews that would show temperatures 
under load and no disassembly videos that will show the thermal solution.
IMO the reason for that is simple, to keep it quiet about inconvenient 
technicalities and to sell sub-optimal product.
Specifications for this CPU shows a requirement of a good thermal 
solution, which should be adequately large\noisy for this form factor.



  [...]
And this is why there is no reason to have high power CPU inside.
I expect the CPU temperature to be at 98 degrees Celsius at all times
and constant throttling under minimal load.

Yikes! None of my machines gets anywhere near that. The fan cooled CPUs
on my desktop are in the 26-32° range right now (early morning, no
load). The machine I am typing this on, a laptop, is reporting core
temps of 44° and 50° right now. All consider high to be ~~86°, with
critical near 98°. (Data courtesy of the sensors program.)
None of my personal machines either. It all depends on specifications 
for each individual piece of hardware.
My desktop has Skylake CPU rated at 65W Base TDP and cooled by 
tower-style heatsink with 4 heatpipes rated at 130W TDP.
Idle, small load temps are 28-32°C, busy workloads: 4 cores compiling, 
7-zip compression, video rendering, maxes out at 70°C in Summer.
There is also a netbook, I use it on rare occasion, it has 6.5W Atom CPU 
and Nvidia ION discrete VGA.
It has heatsinks for both Intel SoC and Nvidia chipset with heatpipes 
and a cooling fan, and it is incapable of overheating even under high 
load, because of low power CPU.
This netbook is painfully slow, it has quite noisy small fan, but 
temperatures are maxed out at 50°C.
The thing is desktops and laptops could have much better thermal 
solution simply because there is space inside for it.


Now let's look at thermal solutions of Intel NUCs [1] [2] for an example.
They look similar to what you could see inside a laptop, except in both 
cases there is only a small heatsink and two heatpipes.

VRM zone is cooled by air which is not great.
First photo depicts thermal solution for i5-10210U processor [3] which 
is rated at 15W TDP, or 10-25W base frequency.
Second photo depicts thermal solution for i7-1165G7 processor [4] which 
is rated at 12-28W base frequency.
Both thermal solutions show sub-par performance under load, because 
there are multiple complains about overheating NUCs on the Internet.
Most of the solutions for the complaints either a cleanup from dust or 
set a power limit via BIOS, or both.
There is a fan-less case [5] for NUCs is available, which looks 
reasonable, basically a brick of aluminum, but even then they are rated 
25W TDP maximum and

it is required from user to set BIOS settings to power limit CPU to 25W.

And that's about widely distributed and supported NUCs from Intel.
Now lets take a look at Newsmay Neosmay products. Odd naming.
We can't find any photos of disassembled products on Newsmay official 
website [6].
There is one good review of S2-B560TPM mini PC [7] with photos of it 
disassembled.

And there it is, same two heatpipes and a heatsink with a fan.
As shown in the review, even with slightly larger case size, they 
couldn't manage to design adequate cooling solution for i5-11400T 
desktop CPU [8] which is rated 35W TDP,

although there are additional heatsinks covering VRM zone, which is a plus.
It looks like a good thermal solution for a 10-15W TDP CPU and that is it.

So once again, what is the point to have high power CPU inside (and pay 
more for it also),
if because of inadequate thermal solutions you have to power limit it to 
base frequency, or suffer from constant throttling under load, noise and

other consequences of overheating, such as reduced lifetime of the device?


What good will it be if with high probability the device will burn
out in 3 months?

Indeed. I've gotten 16 years out of my FIT-PCs so far and would like to
get a respectable portion of that out of their replacement.

16 years is a good amount of value. :)
Is it Pentium 4 on ITX motherboard?
Nowadays they don't make them like before, and it is so hard to buy 
something decent.
Everything is power hungry, working at insane frequency speeds; tiny ICs 
are more fragile and susceptible to overheating;
BGA SoCs with hundreds of leads on thin PCBs prone to deformation; 
lead-free solder and all that other planned obsolescence dance..



[1] 

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[David Wright]

On Wed 15 Nov 2023 at 20:01:20 (+0100), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-11-15 18:06:45 +, Tixy wrote:
> > On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 18:15 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > On 2023-11-15 16:39:15 -, Curt wrote:
> > > > On 2023-11-14, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > The base number is the same, but I would have thought that this other
> > > > > kernel might have additional patches.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > That's why I suggested ignoring the message.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Then why does reportbug mention the bullseye-backports kernel?
> > > > 
> > > > Because it kind of looks newer if you're a not very bright software
> > > > construct, he opined.
> > > 
> > > But the bookworm-backports kernel is even newer.
> > > So why not this one?
> > 
> > Because it's a different package?
> 
> There is no guarantee that a package with the same name in a
> different distribution has the same meaning (because packages
> get renamed...). So I would say that this is not a good reason.

Well, it would seem strange to provide a backport for a package
and call it by a different name. But with kernels, there's always
the problem of a myriad of slightly different versions, so a
fuzzy name match might be appropriate.

> But I'm still wondering where reportbug gets this particular
> version 6.1.55+1~bpo11+1, as it is not in bullseye-backports.

I just downloaded /debian/dists/bullseye-backports/main/binary-amd64/Packages.xz
(2023-11-02 13:59 395K), and it contains:

$ zgrep -A3 '^Package: linux-image' Packages.xz | paste - - - - - | sed 
's/Package: //;s/\tSource:/ src/;s/\tVersion:/ ver/;s/\tInstalled-Size:/ 
isize/;s/\t--//'
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 
6336657
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 
isize 499959
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-cloud-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 
isize 2051897
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-cloud-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 
6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 145318
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-rt-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 
6404909
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-rt-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 
isize 518751
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 
6340686
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 
isize 499954
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-cloud-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 
isize 2051852
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-cloud-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 
6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 145473
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-rt-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 
6409844
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-rt-amd64-unsigned src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 
isize 518558
linux-image-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 13
linux-image-amd64-signed-template src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 3884
linux-image-cloud-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 13
linux-image-rt-amd64-dbg src linux ver 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 isize 13
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) 
ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 501754
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-cloud-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 
(6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 145823
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.11-rt-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) 
ver 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 520577
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.9-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.27+1~bpo11+1) ver 
6.1.27-1~bpo11+1 isize 501563
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.9-cloud-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 
(6.1.27+1~bpo11+1) ver 6.1.27-1~bpo11+1 isize 145610
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.9-rt-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.27+1~bpo11+1) 
ver 6.1.27-1~bpo11+1 isize 520274
linux-image-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) ver 
6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 13
linux-image-cloud-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) ver 
6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 13
linux-image-rt-amd64 src linux-signed-amd64 (6.1.38+4~bpo11+1) ver 
6.1.38-4~bpo11+1 isize 13
$ 

so there do appear to be 6.1.55-1~bpo11+1 candidates, like
linux-image-6.1.0-0.deb11.13-amd64-unsigned.

I don't know how reportbug operates; nor do I know how to
drive madison—perhaps it's seeing the third from last line.
But I'm not sure why you're making such an issue out of
reportbug's harmless suggestion to check whether you're
up-to-date.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-11-15 18:06:45 +, Tixy wrote:
> On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 18:15 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2023-11-15 16:39:15 -, Curt wrote:
> > > On 2023-11-14, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > The base number is the same, but I would have thought that this other
> > > > kernel might have additional patches.
> > > > 
> > > > > That's why I suggested ignoring the message.
> > > > 
> > > > Then why does reportbug mention the bullseye-backports kernel?
> > > 
> > > Because it kind of looks newer if you're a not very bright software
> > > construct, he opined.
> > 
> > But the bookworm-backports kernel is even newer.
> > So why not this one?
> 
> Because it's a different package?

There is no guarantee that a package with the same name in a
different distribution has the same meaning (because packages
get renamed...). So I would say that this is not a good reason.
But I'm still wondering where reportbug gets this particular
version 6.1.55+1~bpo11+1, as it is not in bullseye-backports.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Tixy]

On Wed, 2023-11-15 at 18:15 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2023-11-15 16:39:15 -, Curt wrote:
> > On 2023-11-14, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> > > 
> > > The base number is the same, but I would have thought that this other
> > > kernel might have additional patches.
> > > 
> > > > That's why I suggested ignoring the message.
> > > 
> > > Then why does reportbug mention the bullseye-backports kernel?
> > 
> > Because it kind of looks newer if you're a not very bright software
> > construct, he opined.
> 
> But the bookworm-backports kernel is even newer.
> So why not this one?

Because it's a different package? bookworm-backports has a linux-6.5
package which is not a newer version of the linux-6.1 package it's
totally separate as far as the packaging system is concerned.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Password managers

[Max Nikulin]

On 15/11/2023 15:40, Michel Verdier wrote:

On 2023-11-15, Max Nikulin wrote:


For Chromium it is better to have a password manager
(gnome-keyring/kwallet/keepassxc/etc.) with D-Bus interface. It needs
a key to encrypt passwords saved in browser and likely cookie store.
Encryption is not applied otherwise.

What about Firefox then? Does it work with password managers with a
D-Bus interface?


keepassxc has a plugin for firefox


Browser extension should be a significantly better option than using 
clipboard for passwords for various sites. (I hope, it is properly 
implemented.) I am unsure if it works for mozilla accounts since add-ons 
are not allowed to interact with some mozilla sites.


As to D-Bus Secret Storage API, Chrome has no master password dialog, it 
can use only user keyring. Firefox has its own dialog but does not 
support getting it through D-Bus. Both browsers have their own storages 
for site passwords. KeePassXC declares support of Secret Storage API, so 
it should be suitable for storing of Chrome master key. Certainly users 
may choose to keep their passwords for sites in KeePassXC, not in 
browser-specific storage.


Firefox stores cookies (and so authentication tokens for active logins) 
without encryption:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56788
and a number of duplicates.


Pass(1) sets a timer and removes the password from the clipboard after
that time has expired.


I am unsure if listening for clipboard change events is currently implemented
in browsers. Such feature defeats timeouts. Its fair use is clipboard managers
specifically for ChromeOS, but that might be usable on other platforms as
well.


don't know for pass, but keepassxc don't rely on managers and erase
the clipboard itself after its timeout


I mean clipboard sniffing

./clipnotify -s clipboard && xclip -selection clipboard -o |
   tee -a /tmp/pw.txt

where clipnotify is a tool to wait for clipboard changes:
https://github.com/cdown/clipnotify
The command above fetches clipboard content immediately when KeePassXC 
puts a password into clipboard. Timeout does not help.


In Wayland applications needs a permission to access clipboard.

In KDE klipper is enabled by default and clipboard history is saved to a 
file. There is a number of other clipboard managers.


For web pages there was intention to allow actions in response to 
changes of clipboard content:

https://w3c.github.io/clipboard-apis/#clipboard-event-clipboardchange

KeePassXC does not erase password immediately after clipboard content is 
obtained. However it would be rather minor improvement. Even if 
clipboard is cleared after first use, a sniffer may put content back to 
allow user to paste password.

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-11-15 16:39:15 -, Curt wrote:
> On 2023-11-14, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
> >
> > The base number is the same, but I would have thought that this other
> > kernel might have additional patches.
> >
> >> That's why I suggested ignoring the message.
> >
> > Then why does reportbug mention the bullseye-backports kernel?
> 
> Because it kind of looks newer if you're a not very bright software
> construct, he opined.

But the bookworm-backports kernel is even newer.
So why not this one?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-11-15 08:50:50 +0100, didier gaumet wrote:
> I don't know why particularly a Bullseye-backports kernel is promoted here
> in a mixed stable/unstable context but perhaps (I have not tested it) you
> could set check-available to 0 in /etc/reportbug.conf (1) to avoid to be
> proposed a newer kernel at all.
> 
> (1) https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/reportbug/reportbug.conf.5.en.html

This would apply to *all* packages. I certainly don't want to do that.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2023-11-15 10:15:35 +0700, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 05:01, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 10:21:13PM +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > # $ wget -qO- 
> > > > 'https://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=emacs=on=oldstable,stable,testing,unstable,experimental=source,all,x86_64'
> 
> The same request without s=... returns versions for all dists and it is
> valid way to call get_newqueue_available. I agree that oldstable-backports
> is confusing, but perhaps it is better to leave decision to common sense of
> users. Too strict filtering might have negative effect in corner cases.

https://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64=on=source,all,x86_64
just gives

 linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64 | 6.1.55-1 | bookworm | amd64

And if you mean the request

  
https://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=linux-image-amd64=on=source,all,x86_64

then I get

 linux-image-amd64 | 3.16+63+deb8u2  | jessie | amd64, i386
 linux-image-amd64 | 3.16+63+deb8u7  | jessie-security| amd64, i386
 linux-image-amd64 | 4.9+80+deb9u11  | stretch| amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 4.9+80+deb9u17  | stretch-security   | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1 | stretch-backports  | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 4.19+105+deb10u16   | buster | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 4.19+105+deb10u20   | buster-security| amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 5.10.127-2~bpo10+1  | buster-backports   | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 5.10.191-1  | bullseye-security  | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 5.10.197-1  | bullseye   | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.1.38-4~bpo11+1| bullseye-backports | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.1.52-1| bookworm-security  | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.1.55-1| bookworm   | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.5.3-1~bpo12+1 | bookworm-backports | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.5.10-1| trixie | amd64
 linux-image-amd64 | 6.5.10-1| sid| amd64

But "reportbug linux-image-6.1.0-13-amd64" still says

The following newer release(s) are available in the Debian archive:
  bullseye-backports (backports-policy): 6.1.55+1~bpo11+1

This doesn't match bullseye-backports in the above list.

In any case, it would have been *much* better to give the
bookworm-backports one.

> > Yes, because the plan is to upgrade the machine to unstable.
> > But I'm trying to solve the touchpad issue first.

Since the bookworm-backports kernel is similar to unstable, perhaps
I should fully upgrade the machine to unstable, and see. In any case,
if the issue still occurs, it would not be specific to unstable.

[Off-topic for this thread...]

> I mostly use mouse, but I have realized that what you described may be
> similar to what I have seen as well. It might be intended behavior:
> 
> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/clickpad-softbuttons.html#id5
> > Left: moving a finger into the right button area does not trigger a 
> > right-button click.
> 
> After moving cursor, position of finger is likely determined by desired
> cursor position that may be inside the area of an arbitrary clickbutton. On
> the other hand it is too aggressive protection against clicking a wrong
> button.

When the issue occurs, the kernel does not report any click, whatever
the position of the finger. And this can last several minutes. I don't
see any reason and any relation with the libinput behavior.

Moreover, it is said "libinput ignores such button clicks, this
behavior is intentional". So it is libinput that ignores button
clicks. In my case, it is the kernel that does not generate click
events (as seen with evtest).

> Have you tried tools specific to libinput instead of xinput?

I don't use xinput. But what needs to be fixed is on the kernel side.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Why is bullseye-backports recommended on bookworm?

[Curt]

On 2023-11-14, Vincent Lefevre  wrote:
>
> The base number is the same, but I would have thought that this other
> kernel might have additional patches.
>
>> That's why I suggested ignoring the message.
>
> Then why does reportbug mention the bullseye-backports kernel?
>

Because it kind of looks newer if you're a not very bright software
construct, he opined.

 
 

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:31:52 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:

> On 15.11.2023 07:56, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
> I wrote that email as a word of caution, because Roberto had
> mentioned he is looking for the device with the same conditions as
> OP, which is "no fans".
> And this model will be very noisy at all times.

How do you figure that it will be noisy at all times? I saw noting in
the specifications or reviews that indicated that.

> 
>  [...]  
> And this is why there is no reason to have high power CPU inside.
> I expect the CPU temperature to be at 98 degrees Celsius at all times 
> and constant throttling under minimal load.

Yikes! None of my machines gets anywhere near that. The fan cooled CPUs
on my desktop are in the 26-32° range right now (early morning, no
load). The machine I am typing this on, a laptop, is reporting core
temps of 44° and 50° right now. All consider high to be ~~86°, with
critical near 98°. (Data courtesy of the sensors program.)


> What good will it be if with high probability the device will burn
> out in 3 months?

Indeed. I've gotten 16 years out of my FIT-PCs so far and would like to
get a respectable portion of that out of their replacement.


-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

dmraid not creation devices for partitions

[Drone Ah]

Hi,

I installed debian on an SSD, but the motherboard has a softraid
controller, which I used to create a couple of RAID5 volumes - for when I
use(d) windows.

In linux, I have dmraid installed and it correctly detects the disks. I can
also (c)fdisk the disks to see the partitions. It, however, does not create
the partition devices.

I found
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/709184/fakeraid-partition-missing-not-mapped-as-a-device-on-boot-after-upgrade-to-ubu/760998#760998

Using kpartx as suggested in the above post does solve the problem. Getting
it to run at startup, if required is another issue.

However, my question is whether this is a bug to be reported. If so, for
which package? dmraid?

Thanks for your help,

Best Wishes,


-- 
https://drone-ah.com

Re: Password managers

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-11-15, Max Nikulin wrote:

>>> For Chromium it is better to have a password manager
>>> (gnome-keyring/kwallet/keepassxc/etc.) with D-Bus interface. It needs
>>> a key to encrypt passwords saved in browser and likely cookie store.
>>> Encryption is not applied otherwise.
>> What about Firefox then? Does it work with password managers with a
>> D-Bus interface?

keepassxc has a plugin for firefox

>> Pass(1) sets a timer and removes the password from the clipboard after
>> that time has expired.
>
> I am unsure if listening for clipboard change events is currently implemented
> in browsers. Such feature defeats timeouts. Its fair use is clipboard managers
> specifically for ChromeOS, but that might be usable on other platforms as
> well.

don't know for pass, but keepassxc don't rely on managers and erase
the clipboard itself after its timeout