Re: ARMHF: kernel 4.9.144-3 won't boot

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:35:23 +0300,
Reco  a écrit :

>   Hi.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:18:00AM +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote:
> > Any idea what is wrong?  
> 
> Just as many of us, you've got unlucky, and received a faulty kernel -
> see #922478.
> It's not just you - they managed to break two Debian architectures
> with this kernel update.
> Good news are - the solution is on its way.
> 
> Reco
> 

Thanks for the info.

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ARMHF: kernel 4.9.144-3 won't boot

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

I have noticed that the current stable kernel won't boot on beaglebone
black SoC: U-Boot loads the kernel, which does nothing but waiting for
some time (no text at all) and rebooting the system endlessly.
Downgrading the package allows the system to boot anew.

Until now, I only provide the kernel with root partition and read-only
(for /), like "root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 ro".
Any idea what is wrong?

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Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:02:23 -0400,
Gene Heskett  a écrit :

> On Wednesday 17 October 2018 05:38:38 Morel Bérenger wrote:
> 
> > Le Wed, 17 Oct 2018 04:40:49 -0400,
> >
> > Gene Heskett  a écrit :  
> > > On Wednesday 17 October 2018 04:00:37 Morel Bérenger wrote:  
> > > > Le Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:53:37 -0400,
> > > >
> > > > Gene Heskett  a écrit :  
> > > > > On Tuesday 16 October 2018 13:11:45 Greg Wooledge wrote:  
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:43:40PM -0400, Gene Heskett
> > > > > > wrote:  
> > > > > > > #1 is ssh -Y has been killed from jessie on. No excuse for
> > > > > > > doing it and bug filing is ignored.  
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know what you mean by this.  I just performed the
> > > > > > following experiment on my stretch workstation (wooledg), in
> > > > > > communications with a stretch server (arc3) elsewhere on our
> > > > > > network.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Already logged into wooledg, I opened a new urxvt window.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) In this window, I typed: ssh -Y arc3
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) After authenticating to arc3 with a password, at the
> > > > > > shell prompt, I typed: xterm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) After a moment, a new xterm window appeared on my
> > > > > > display.  
> > > > >
> > > > > Thats expected. Now enter synaptic-pkexec. It should ask you,
> > > > > if you are user 1000, for a passwd and given it, it will run.
> > > > > But after wheezy, its not possible. LinuxCNC's graphics needs
> > > > > are modest, and it will run, as the user. But its not root.
> > > > > And root is denied regardless of how you go about obtaining
> > > > > root permissions.  
> > > >
> > > > Also, I wonder if you tried to do that through, for example
> > > > Xephyr? Might workaround the issue you have?  
> > >
> > > Well I was just reminded that gksudo works. Now what the heck is
> > > Xephyr? Google says its x on x, whatever that means. I'll try to
> > > remember that and play with it if its available for wheezy &
> > > later.
> > >
> > > Thanks Morel Bérenger.  
> >
> > The ncurses mode of aptitude says Xephyr is a X server that can be
> > executed inside another X server, more or less like Xnest (or xming,
> > for people like me that had to work on a windows station but wanted
> > to keep a nice wm embedded on personal hardware ;)).
> >
> > I can not really explain how this works, but in short you could
> > consider a remote system providing the performances stuff (hard disk
> > space, strong CPU, tons or RAM...) and opening the X session on
> > local systems.
> > I think it might fix your problem because basically, su-programs
> > (probably PAM modules, in fact) do some security related checks to
> > avoid passwords to be sniffed by a client on another computer: which
> > is what I would expect a ssh -Y gksudo do.
> >
> > If my explanation is not clear (and I'm certain of it), it's
> > because I don't really master that side of systems, sorry for
> > that :)  
> 
> You at least, dug deep enough to see that pam was probably the guilty 
> party,

I have not dug, not even a minute. It's just that I've always played a
lot with my debians, and I started really using it when Lenny was
testing.
Playing with apt-pining, agetty alternatives and alike tends to teach
some stuff, especially when one starts to have some years of background
to compare.
You know, the month I started really using something different from
windows, I stopped spitting on that system, because I understood that
(most of) the crashes were not windows' fault but coders doing their
job the wrong way.
It's so easy to hit the 1st thing one can see.

> same conclusion I reached. Unforch, removing pam also pretty
> much nukes the whole system.

Building a PAM-less distro based on Debian would be quite the
challenge, for sure.
I intend to try, some day, just for fun (PAM might also be part of the
reason Xorg have to be started by root, on sysV, and since systemd
comes into the game, this might have allowed them this improvement. It
seems the *BSD guys are taking a very different approach, I must learn
how they do that, because loading as root a shared library just to
read 2 files (or ask a server) seems bad for both performance and
security to me).

But I do not think it's the smartest solution to fix an actual,
real-life problem.
PAM is basically a set of dynamic libraries, and in theory (never
played with it, the whole model as I know it seems disgusting to me) you
can configure it to use a "module" or another one to identify a user or
an application.
Maybe this would be easier than hacking the whole distro to remove PAM.

Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Wed, 17 Oct 2018 04:40:49 -0400,
Gene Heskett  a écrit :

> On Wednesday 17 October 2018 04:00:37 Morel Bérenger wrote:
> 
> > Le Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:53:37 -0400,
> >
> > Gene Heskett  a écrit :  
> > > On Tuesday 16 October 2018 13:11:45 Greg Wooledge wrote:  
> > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:43:40PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:  
> > > > > #1 is ssh -Y has been killed from jessie on. No excuse for
> > > > > doing it and bug filing is ignored.  
> > > >
> > > > I don't know what you mean by this.  I just performed the
> > > > following experiment on my stretch workstation (wooledg), in
> > > > communications with a stretch server (arc3) elsewhere on our
> > > > network.
> > > >
> > > > 1) Already logged into wooledg, I opened a new urxvt window.
> > > >
> > > > 2) In this window, I typed: ssh -Y arc3
> > > >
> > > > 3) After authenticating to arc3 with a password, at the shell
> > > > prompt, I typed: xterm
> > > >
> > > > 4) After a moment, a new xterm window appeared on my display.  
> > >
> > > Thats expected. Now enter synaptic-pkexec. It should ask you, if
> > > you are user 1000, for a passwd and given it, it will run. But
> > > after wheezy, its not possible. LinuxCNC's graphics needs are
> > > modest, and it will run, as the user. But its not root. And root
> > > is denied regardless of how you go about obtaining root
> > > permissions.  
> >
> > Also, I wonder if you tried to do that through, for example Xephyr?
> > Might workaround the issue you have?  
> 
> Well I was just reminded that gksudo works. Now what the heck is
> Xephyr? Google says its x on x, whatever that means. I'll try to
> remember that and play with it if its available for wheezy & later.
> 
> Thanks Morel Bérenger.
> 

The ncurses mode of aptitude says Xephyr is a X server that can be
executed inside another X server, more or less like Xnest (or xming,
for people like me that had to work on a windows station but wanted to
keep a nice wm embedded on personal hardware ;)).

I can not really explain how this works, but in short you could
consider a remote system providing the performances stuff (hard disk
space, strong CPU, tons or RAM...) and opening the X session on local
systems.
I think it might fix your problem because basically, su-programs
(probably PAM modules, in fact) do some security related checks to
avoid passwords to be sniffed by a client on another computer: which is
what I would expect a ssh -Y gksudo do.

If my explanation is not clear (and I'm certain of it), it's because I
don't really master that side of systems, sorry for that :)


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Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:53:37 -0400,
Gene Heskett  a écrit :

> For me, its a right PITA because I am forced to goto that machines
> keyboard/monitor location when there is something I need to install.

I wonder why you don't use a tool like rex in combination with apt/dpkg
to update/install softwares on your systems?
I mean, this would allow you to do the task on all the systems you need
to do it, at once, instead of moving on every single computer by foot
or by network?


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Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:53:37 -0400,
Gene Heskett  a écrit :

> On Tuesday 16 October 2018 13:11:45 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:43:40PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:  
> > > #1 is ssh -Y has been killed from jessie on. No excuse for doing
> > > it and bug filing is ignored.  
> >
> > I don't know what you mean by this.  I just performed the following
> > experiment on my stretch workstation (wooledg), in communications
> > with a stretch server (arc3) elsewhere on our network.
> >
> > 1) Already logged into wooledg, I opened a new urxvt window.
> >
> > 2) In this window, I typed: ssh -Y arc3
> >
> > 3) After authenticating to arc3 with a password, at the shell
> > prompt, I typed: xterm
> >
> > 4) After a moment, a new xterm window appeared on my display.  
> 
> Thats expected. Now enter synaptic-pkexec. It should ask you, if you
> are user 1000, for a passwd and given it, it will run. But after
> wheezy, its not possible. LinuxCNC's graphics needs are modest, and
> it will run, as the user. But its not root. And root is denied
> regardless of how you go about obtaining root permissions.

Also, I wonder if you tried to do that through, for example Xephyr?
Might workaround the issue you have?


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Re: Micro-report: using Stable without systemd

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Sun, 14 Oct 2018 10:23:15 -0400,
Dan Ritter  a écrit :

> I have encountered no problems that can be attributed to my choice of
> init system.

Doing the same. Works fine, except the fact network interfaces that are
using DHCPCD but are unplugged slow down the boot process *a lot*.
I could only solve that point by no longer
using /etc/network/interfaces and initialising stuff by hand in a
home-made service script (using runit on top of sysV here, so that's
pretty easy to do).

However, I would like to point out that the best way to have really no
traces of systemd in a system after a fresh install is to use
(c)debootstrap in minimal flavour, chroot in the resulting system,
install sysVinit, then the init metapackage (optional, obviously, but
may avoid problems from upgrades), all the stuff a working Debian needs
(netbase, kernel, etc...).

This is the only way to avoid having users and groups lying around for
nothing, or other stuff (files in /var, maybe  units (never really
checked)... ).
This is what I'm doing through a PXE installation that auto-installs
systems.

Concerning the fact systemd-udev's developers do not intend to support
non-systemd inits, I guess the best would be to port the Devuan's eudev
package to Debian.
That would probably not be that hard, and might become something I'll
need to do for work someday.


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Re: What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux distros?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Tue, 16 Oct 2018 05:59:36 +,
Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming  a
écrit :

> Good afternoon from Singapore,

Hello.

> What are the differences between systemd and non-systemd Linux
> distros?

Hard question, but you might found some informations if you dig in the
archives of this ML. However, be warned that the "discussions" were not
always polite and informative.

From my own limited point of view, I would say that systemd is closer
than a toolset doing several system-related tasks (managing logs,
trigger commands on events that might be time, reception of
network connections, detection of plugged hardware, birth or death of a
daemon process, and probably tons of others).

On the other hand, classic init systems are usually just the thing that
initialize the system.
Some of those init systems embed a watchdog mechanism, sometimes
directly (no example in mind, but it might exists), or as an external
binary (like runit which uses runsvdir).

Another difference is that systemd is AFAIK linux-only and doing
things in a specific way (declarative configuration versus executable
files for other init systems, traditionally bourne shell scripts), so if
you master it and later want to use, for example, NetBSD, you'll have to
relearn everything, while learning most other init systems will have
some common things.

I know those replies are vague, but so is your question, and I tried to
stay neutral.

AFAIK, all ways can work for you.
Also, this is only a concern for you if you intend to create daemons or
manage your systems in the depths, not if you just intend to be normal
user.

> Is systemd implemented in all the latest Linux distros?

Depends on what you call implemented.

If you mean installed by default, then no, here is a quote from
https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom/

> GNU/Linux Distributions without systemd
> Devuan uses sysvinit, offers openrc, runit, sinit
> Dragora uses sysvinit + perp
> Gentoo uses openrc (see Gentoo without systemd)
> Obarun uses s6 supervision suite
> PCLinuxOS
> Refracta
> Slackware uses sysvinit
> Stali, the static Linux, uses sinit
> Void Linux uses runit
> Hyperbola uses openrc
> Artix offers OpenRC and runit

I doubt this list is either exhaustive or up-to-date, what I can say is
that I personally use voidlinux on some systems and enjoy it, as well
as I enjoy using Debian on some others, depending on the role of the
system.
And I always have 2 distros installed by system, so that I could
chroot from one into the other, just in case I mess something (which
did not happen since several months, lucky me).

> Please advise. Thank you. 

I can't advise without knowing what you aim to.


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pppd: how to die on connection lost

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

I am trying to make the pppd process to die if connection failed or is
lost, so that I could restart the connection with a different script (I
could tweak the chat script, but I'm still new to modem stuff and from
the doc I can hardily find how to only specify the PIN code "once per
hardware uptime" if you get what I mean).

I tried to read documentation from various sources, including debian's
manpages, but failed to do that, so now I'm reading the code to see if
it is possible to at least die if the chat script failed.

While reading the code ("apt-get sources ppp" gave me ppp-2-4-7, I'm
on stretch), I've noticed a variable that might be used without being
initialized. In fact, grep can not find any place where it's value is
set:

ppp-2.4.7% grep -r callback_script -n
debian/ppp.symbols:54: callback_script@Base 2.4.7-1+2~
pppd/tty.c:132:char *callback_script;   /* script for
doing callback */
pppd/tty.c:562: connector = doing_callback?
callback_script: connect_script;

To me, it seems quite strange, and may be source of problems, but I
guess there is some explanations?

Best regards.

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any continuous integration tool in the repo?

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

I think everything is in the title: I would like to have CI hosted on
my own, but I have to say I don't know that many names of tools, and if
possible, I would really like to have something coming from Debian's
repos, so that I would not have to worry about updates.

So, do any of you knows a CI software in Debian's repository?

Thanks.

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Re: Activate/deactivate kernel parameters without reboot

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

Le Fri, 30 Mar 2018 04:50:06 -0300,
rv riveravaldez  a écrit :
> 'Permiso denegado' means 'Permission denied'.
> 
> 
> What else shoud/could I do?

Maybe you could try to unload the module before changing it's setup?


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Re: some questions about cfengine3

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:15:41 +0200,
<to...@tuxteam.de> a écrit :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:10:10AM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:
> > Le Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:48:31 +0200,
> > deloptes <delop...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >   
> > > Morel Bérenger wrote:
> > >   
> > > > I have several questions about the cfengine3 package that can be
> > > > found in Debian.
> > > 
> > > if you have not to maintain legacy, I recommend ansible or
> > > puppet. 
> > 
> > May I ask why? I must admit I don't know all those things a lot,
> > even if I did read a lot about them.  
> 
> It really depends on your needs/tastes/team.
> 
> Cfengine is by far the smallest and least dependent (1.8MB installed
> size, no big interpreter). Ansible is 12.8MB, depends on Python (which
> will most probably be on your distro anyway) and a bunch of Python
> modules. Puppet is 5.9MB and depends on Ruby.
> 
> The last two are what the cool kids are doing these days, cfengine is
> considerably older -- but most probably simpler to understand.
> 
> I think you'll have to look into all of them and judge (yeah, I
> know ;-)

I am not really constrained about mass storage (I mean, embedding a
Debian system on 1Gb is easy enough, and our systems does not have less
than 4Gb) but on bandwidth, so I guess I'm better to go with the
smallest (considering that no, python is not needed in our systems and
so, absent), cfengine3 according to you?

Also, I'm the only one at work which have ever heard of that kind
of tools, so I'm basically free to take whatever I want, and I've never
really cared about «coolness» of systems.
If I could only work with softwares that are older than me and simple
enough to not require updates every 2 months, I would be a happy coder.

> 
> > I should say I'm not even sure that kind of tool is the right one
> > for the task I have in mind: managing a fleet of systems that
> > connect through radio connections (3G, 4G, GSM, depends on what
> > we'll have on places, I guess).  
> 
> I think those systems help you in managing similar but slightly
> different configurations for many systems. So you seem to be right
> with that.

Thanks for the informations.

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Re: some questions about cfengine3

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:48:31 +0200,
deloptes <delop...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> Morel Bérenger wrote:
> 
> > I have several questions about the cfengine3 package that can be
> > found in Debian.  
> 
> if you have not to maintain legacy, I recommend ansible or puppet. 
> 

May I ask why? I must admit I don't know all those things a lot, even
if I did read a lot about them.
I should say I'm not even sure that kind of tool is the right one for
the task I have in mind: managing a fleet of systems that connect
through radio connections (3G, 4G, GSM, depends on what we'll have on
places, I guess).

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Re: some questions about cfengine3

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mon, 26 Mar 2018 23:22:37 +0200,
<to...@tuxteam.de> a écrit :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 03:33:19PM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:
> > Le Mon, 26 Mar 2018 08:54:22 -0400,
> > Greg Wooledge <wool...@eeg.ccf.org> a écrit :
> >   
> > > On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:37:08AM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:  
> > > > I have several questions about the cfengine3 package that can be
> > > > found in Debian.
> > > > 
> > > > * binaries seems to be located into /usr/local/sbin/, is there
> > > > is a reason for this (not important but intriguing, sounds very
> > > > unusual from Debian AFAIK)?
> > > 
> > > Which version of the package, on which branch of Debian?  The
> > > stable package's file list
> > > <https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/cfengine3/filelist>
> > > does not show anything under /usr/local.
> > >   
> > 
> > It is the 3.9.1-4.2 version, but by looking more precisely, I
> > noticed that this content is only symlinks
> > to /var/lib/cfengine/bin, which itself is a symlink to /usr/sbin...
> > still strange, but I guess they are installed by some script in the
> > deb.  
> 
> Hmm. Looking at the filelist:
> 
>   https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/cfengine3/filelist
> 
> I don't see anything in /usr/local?
> 
> I just installed it (the version you mention above is stretch). It
> doesn't seem to touch /usr/local on my box.

Oh, I was confused by all my manipulations, I guess at some point I
installed something from the outside, sorry for that (now I know why it
seemed strange to me to have things in /usr/local...).


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Re: some questions about cfengine3

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mon, 26 Mar 2018 08:54:22 -0400,
Greg Wooledge <wool...@eeg.ccf.org> a écrit :

> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:37:08AM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:
> > I have several questions about the cfengine3 package that can be
> > found in Debian.
> > 
> > * binaries seems to be located into /usr/local/sbin/, is there is a
> >   reason for this (not important but intriguing, sounds very unusual
> >   from Debian AFAIK)?  
> 
> Which version of the package, on which branch of Debian?  The stable
> package's file list
> <https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/cfengine3/filelist>
> does not show anything under /usr/local.
> 

It is the 3.9.1-4.2 version, but by looking more precisely, I noticed
that this content is only symlinks to /var/lib/cfengine/bin, which
itself is a symlink to /usr/sbin... still strange, but I guess they are
installed by some script in the deb.

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some questions about cfengine3

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

I have several questions about the cfengine3 package that can be found
in Debian.

* binaries seems to be located into /usr/local/sbin/, is there is a
  reason for this (not important but intriguing, sounds very unusual
  from Debian AFAIK)?
* in /etc/defaults/cfengine3, there is a mention of something
  named /usr/share/doc/cfengine3/examples, but this folder does not
  exists. Since the binaries seems to not be placed in the
  usual /usr/[s]bin location, I also looked at /usr/local/share/doc,
  but nothing, and I can not find any packages that seems to contain
  cfengine3's documentation (I have manpages installed, but they don't
  tell a lot)?
* I would like to use runit to manage those processes, but running
  cf-agent -B $IP as described in various tutorials I have found
  starts (after some warning messages and what I would consider a very
  long time, but it works. Maybe a reverse DNS thing, since I
  did the testing into a virtual network without DHCPd nor DNSd, I'll
  investigate on that later.) 3 processes that goes to background. I
  would like to know if someone have some pointer about how to do that?

Thanks.

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Re: No Google bubble? (was: systemd for administrators, printable version.)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 19 novembre 2014 16:49, Curt a écrit :
 So I don't see how Google could have tailored my results.

For example, it can guess from your IP from where you come, and show
results more... pertinent... considering your location.
A easy test: search for test. This word exists in several languages, so
using it on google.com from various IPs can be interesting, if you can.
You can also try to use any other variants of google (.fr, .us, etc) and
check if you are having the same results.
If results differ from a test to another, then, yes, google is bubbling you.

Now, is bubbling good or not, is a different question and I do not intend
to try to answer it :)


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Re: Migrating GTK+ project to windows

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 18 novembre 2014 16:51, Kevin O'Gorman a écrit :
 I have a project that I'd like to migrate to Windows.  I'll likely be
 using Windows 8.1.

GTK+ is portable, or at least that what was said last time I checked so I
do not see the point in migrating anything.
I think you should start on downloading the installers on the official GTK
site.

 It was originally developed on debian-based distros,

If it were written in a non-portable way, then you might have hard times,
if you are not experienced enough in programming.

 I make it with code::blocks normally.  I have code::blocks on my Windows
 machine, but not GTK+, and I've gotten confused by the documentation of
 how to put GTK+ there too.  Too many choices,

Well, I would start by going of official website, and download the stuff
for your targeted platform. There are not that many choices.

 and some have failed
 outright, but in cryptic fashion.

What have you tried, and how did it failed?


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Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 17 novembre 2014 19:32, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a écrit :
 On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

 So, what part of that disk should I extract, which could be usable
 and sharable? Partition table, of course, which is probably at disk's
 beginning, but how long might it be?

 That depends.  What kind of partition table?


I think it's msdos.


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Re: No Google bubble? (was: systemd for administrators, printable version.)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 19 novembre 2014 18:26, Curt a écrit :
 Now, is bubbling good or not, is a different question and I do not
 intend to try to answer it :)

 It may be good for a francophone, si tu ne causes pas la langue de M
 Shakespeare!

Yes, it may. But sometimes it gets annoying, depending on one's uses, for
example when you're trying to find some stuff about programming, or asking
things in English.


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Re: udev memory problem when trying to plug a disk with corrupted partition table

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 19 novembre 2014 21:16, Scott Ferguson a écrit :
 On 20/11/14 04:06, Morel Bérenger wrote:

 Le Lun 17 novembre 2014 19:32, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh a écrit :

 On Mon, 17 Nov 2014, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:


 So, what part of that disk should I extract, which could be usable
 and sharable? Partition table, of course, which is probably at
 disk's beginning, but how long might it be?

 That depends.  What kind of partition table?



 I think it's msdos.



 Could you post the output of fdisk -l /dev/$ProblematicDisk please
 (you'll need to run the command as root)?

Note that I think this output is actuall not complete, I suspect fdisk to
not trying to show the whole one.


# fdisk -l /dev/sdc
Warning: omitting partitions after #60.
They will be deleted if you save this partition table.

Disk /dev/sdc: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x80b686b1

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdc1   *2048 1050623  524288   83  Linux
/dev/sdc2 10506242202419110486784b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sdc322026238   520376319   2491750415  Extended
/dev/sdc4   520376320   976773119   228198400   83  Linux
/dev/sdc5220262408389222330932992   83  Linux
/dev/sdc683894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc7   373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc8   394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc983894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc10  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc11  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc12   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc13  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc14  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc15   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc16  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc17  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc18   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc19  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc20  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc21   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc22  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc23  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc24   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc25  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc26  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc27   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc28  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc29  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc30   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc31  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc32  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc33   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc34  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc35  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc36   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc37  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc38  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc39   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc40  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc41  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc42   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc43  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc44  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc45   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc46  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc47  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc48   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc49  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc50  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc51   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc52  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc53  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc54   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc55  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc56  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc57   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD
/dev/sdc58  373573632   39454515110485760   83  Linux
/dev/sdc59  394547200   52037631962914560   83  Linux
/dev/sdc60   83894272   14680883131457280   a9  NetBSD

Partition table entries are not in disk order

Re: very slow Xorg and/or bash

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 26 février 2014 7:54, Danny a écrit :
 Hi,


 I think you are looking for the answer in the wrong place.


 Remember that Xorg is totally network aware. When it starts up, it checks
 your hostname and resolv.conf file. A bad configuration of these two will
 slow Xorg down considerably.

 The reason I say this is because very recently (last week or so) I ran
 into a few problems with DNS, and whenever I misconfigured one of these
 files Xorg would take up to 15 seconds and sometimes even more to start.
 Also, I had
 slow logins with terminals. Properly configuring these two files rectified
 the problem.

 Hope it helps


 Danny

I have found the reason behind this slowness, and I now feel quite stupid.
My bash version was upgraded into 4.3~rc2-1. I downgraded it back to
4.2+dfsg-1, which solved the problem. I have no clue about the differences
between the current bash version and the next one, but one thing now seems
obvious: there are terrible performance problems, probably due to a bug.
Now, I have to find how and where to report this problem.


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Re: very slow Xorg and/or bash

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 26 février 2014 20:48, Morel Bérenger a écrit :
 Le Mer 26 février 2014 7:54, Danny a écrit :

 Hi,



 I think you are looking for the answer in the wrong place.



 Remember that Xorg is totally network aware. When it starts up, it
 checks your hostname and resolv.conf file. A bad configuration of these
 two will slow Xorg down considerably.

 The reason I say this is because very recently (last week or so) I ran
 into a few problems with DNS, and whenever I misconfigured one of these
 files Xorg would take up to 15 seconds and sometimes even more to
 start. Also, I had
 slow logins with terminals. Properly configuring these two files
 rectified the problem.

 Hope it helps



 Danny


 I have found the reason behind this slowness, and I now feel quite
 stupid. My bash version was upgraded into 4.3~rc2-1. I downgraded it
 back to 4.2+dfsg-1, which solved the problem. I have no clue about the
 differences between the current bash version and the next one, but one
 thing now seems obvious: there are terrible performance problems, probably
 due to a bug. Now, I have to find how and where to report this problem.



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For information, here is the reason of that slowness: debugging
informations are included in this release.
Sadly, I can not contribute to testing, since terminals, and so bash, are
how I do most of my actions on my system, and having it that slow makes
the system almost unusable.


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very slow Xorg and/or bash

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

Since few days, say 4 or 5, my netbook is *really* slow when a terminal
starts. After taking a look with top, it seems that it's bash itself which
is the problem: it makes the terminal freezing for at least 15s on login,
and almost the same when using auto-completion.

There is also xorg, which uses constantly at least 10% of the CPU, if I
trust top ( at least, means that it is the minimal value ).

I have no idea about how to find the origin of the problem, this is why I
am not giving any real hint or suppositions.
I do not remember having updated anything particular ( but no doubt that I
did, otherwise I could not have such kind of constant slowness ).

I am using a testing/unstable/experimental debian, no DE.
wheezy's packages have priority 900, unstable ones only 200, except for
compilers ( Package: clang* gcc* g++* cpp* libgfortran* )
Running services are currently:
# service --status-all
 [ + ]  acpi-fakekey
 [ - ]  acpi-support
 [ + ]  acpid
 [ ? ]  alsa-utils
 [ ? ]  binfmt-support
 [ - ]  bootlogs
 [ ? ]  bootmisc.sh
 [ ? ]  checkfs.sh
 [ ? ]  checkroot-bootclean.sh
 [ - ]  checkroot.sh
 [ - ]  console-setup
 [ - ]  cups
 [ + ]  dbus
 [ ? ]  hdparm
 [ - ]  hostname.sh
 [ ? ]  hwclock.sh
 [ - ]  kbd
 [ - ]  keyboard-setup
 [ ? ]  killprocs
 [ ? ]  kmod
 [ - ]  motd
 [ ? ]  mountall-bootclean.sh
 [ ? ]  mountall.sh
 [ ? ]  mountdevsubfs.sh
 [ ? ]  mountkernfs.sh
 [ ? ]  mountnfs-bootclean.sh
 [ ? ]  mountnfs.sh
 [ + ]  mpd
 [ ? ]  networking
 [ - ]  procps
 [ ? ]  rc.local
 [ - ]  rmnologin
 [ - ]  rsync
 [ ? ]  sendsigs
 [ - ]  ssh
 [ - ]  sudo
 [ + ]  tor
 [ + ]  udev
 [ ? ]  umountfs
 [ ? ]  umountnfs.sh
 [ ? ]  umountroot
 [ - ]  urandom
 [ + ]  wicd
 [ - ]  x11-common

Any idea about the problem? Or at least any idea about what to look for to
have one?
I suspect some bash script, but the slowness is also with root, and I did
not changed anything by hand that could affect root since at least 2
weeks.


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Re: Don't want a desktop environment

[Morel Bérenger]

On 23/09/2013 00:26, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:



Le 22.09.2013 01:14, Paul Cartwright a écrit :

On 09/21/2013 03:58 PM, Josef Bailey wrote:

i3 is a very good wm

I just installed  ran I3. I have a couple of issues.
1. it breaks Thunderbirds n to go to Next Message in another folder.
So you have to constantly use the mouse to move to the next folder
2. You can no longer click on web links in Thunderbird , nothing 
happens.

3. When I went back to Trinity WM and ran Thunderbird, it was in
fullscreen mode with no way to resize the window. I googled  found a
workaround, but I don't think I3 plays nice with Thunderbird, so  that
won't work for me..

--
Paul Cartwright
Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587


I am not a thunderbird user, but I have never noticed that problem. 
Maybe you messed yourself with your configuration? Can you show us the 
configuration file you used and describe exact steps to reproduce?


Anyway, I tried thunderbird (icedove in facts) to reproduce your bug, 
and indeed, I had bug. Network is no longer usable on the computer on 
which I did the try :) it's not really fun, I'll have to debug it 
now... I'll ask for help on another thread if I can not do it myself ( 
even localhost seems damaged btw, so at least it is not hardware 
failure ).


Ok, problem solved by simply waiting... strange. Anyway, I can not 
reproduce your problem, here, pressing 'n' goes to next unread message. 
Is it what it should do? If yes, then it works fine.
I would really like to see your i3 configuration file and know your 
steps. My bet would be that you had this issue when using an i3 mode 
where the key 'n' was binded, so when i3 received 'n' it thought it was 
for it.


For the 2nd issue, it seems you do not have installed a package for me.  
Package which could have been automatically installed by whatever other 
wm you use, or any other software.
I already had issues with softwares which had silent dependencies in 
Debian. It is easy for developpers to forgot about one of those when 
then are making tests on systems using a complete desktop environment, 
and users as me (us?) which prefers to keep systems as light as possible 
suffers from that.

After all, how could a window manager break automatic URL management?

For the 3rd and hopefully last issue you had, it is definitely not a i3 
problem, since as you say, I went back to Trinity WM.
I3 just have no way to remember that a window was in fullscreen. Often, 
web browsers implements their own window manager internally, which 
allows to fullscreen. Since thunderbird is made on the same basis as 
firefox, I guess they use the same GUI tools, and so that you are using 
the internal full screen mode.


If I am wrong on any of my assertions, please correct me.


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Re: Debian 7 Wheezy Stable Relelased

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 7 mai 2013 14:41, Chris Bannister a écrit :
 On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 01:54:30AM +0200, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
 wrote:

 I have a very old computer too. I will not claim to use it on a
 daily basis of course (I have only 2 arms, so I can not manage all my 3
 keyboards :p)

 Ahhh!, but you could ssh into 2 computers from your 3rd computer
 and then you only need one keyboard and one monitor. :q)  :)

Of course :)
I am using ssh a lot, even if I do not really configure it correctly (I
should take some time to do that, but it's not my only thing to learn
btw).

 I'm assuming they are all connected via a network, which is a bit bold,
 but these days with cheap hubs and switches around it would be a bit
 unusual if they weren't connected.

You missed this phrase: I will use that box [...] when I'll be able to
pass some network cables in my walls. ;)

My 2 recent computers (3 and 2 years still sound recent for me) are
connected to the home network, one by wi-fi, the other through a cable,
but not the old one: I do not want running cables and I can not
currently install a good old ethernet cable to link my (8 years old but
still working like a charm) switch to the damned future jukebox. Or maybe
I will make it a firewall. Or a file storage. Or an old gaming plat-form
(it still have old joystick connection, and I still have some old
joysticks). Or more than one of those usages... I'm still undecided :)
I simply now that it will be used, and this, thanks to Debian which is
able to be quite lightweight when you take some time to remove useless
packages.


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Re: Debian 7 Wheezy Stable Relelased

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 6 mai 2013 10:37, James Allsopp a écrit :
 Hi,
 What I meant was I wan to upgrade an existing system from Squeeze to
 Wheezy
 but replacing Gnome2 with XFCE, which seems a more natural upgrade path.
 I'd rather not have the grief of trying to remove a load of gnome3
 libraries. I think I'll have to install XFCE then remove Gnome2 before the
  upgrade?

The faster way (because it will avoid upgrading gnome or xfce for nothing,
which includes downloads):
Simply remove all gnome packages, upgrade, and then install XFCE. I think
it is safer to do that from outside an X session, but it should be ok
anyway.

A command like:
#aptitude purge gnome*  aptitude update  aptitude upgrade  aptitude
install xfce4

should do the job, but I think the 2 middle aptitude commands can be
replaced by dist-upgrade or something like that. Maybe safer too, I do not
really knows.


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Re: Without SKYPE?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 3 mai 2013 0:08, Brian a écrit :
 On Thu 02 May 2013 at 13:46:50 -0700, Kelly Clowers wrote:


 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:


 We are in agreement. If you want to get in touch with somone on the
 Skype network then the Skype software has to be used somewhere along
 the line.

 As far as I can tell you are the only person in the thread that cares
 about that.

 Maybe. Skype interoperating with other VoIP systems crops up every now
 and again. It is a daydream; with millions of users and a closed network
 they have no need to think seriously in such terms for the immediate
 future.

If I am not wrong, I've read something last year about someone who claimed
to have reversed the skype's protocol. I heard nothing more about that
since then, but did not made any researches on that subject.


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Re: Without SKYPE?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 2 mai 2013 21:23, Kelly Clowers a écrit :
 On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote:

 On 05/02/2013 12:29 PM, Lars Nooden wrote:


 There are Blink, Linphone, Ekiga, Jitsi, and maybe a few others.
 Jitsi is
 quite useful.  These are all SIP phones so they can all talk to each
 other, not locked into a single company like Skype.

 Regards,
 /Lars



 But can they talk to folks using SKYPE?


 Nobody but Skype can talk to Skype.

I've read it enough times on that thread. That's not the exact picture.

calls to other users within the Skype service are free of charge, while
calls to landline telephones and mobile phones are charged via a
debit-based user account system. [1]


1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype


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Re: Problem with Konsole

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 2 mai 2013 21:03, Stephen P. Molnar a écrit :
 64 bit Debian Testing/XFCE.


 When I open a console an untitled X File Window opens.  This just
 started today and I don't have a clue as to what is going on.

 It is rather annoying because I don't get a prompt in the console until
 I close this unwanted app.


 Does anyone have an idea as to what is going on here and how I can fix
 the problem?

 Thanks in advance.

Did you made an update before? If yes, an easy solution is to go back to
the old version of the software which is giving you problems.

If it does not solve the problem, it is probably because you have a
configuration file which mess your system in $HOME. Try with another user
to check it, if the behavior disappear, then it is certain.
When you know if it is a user-specific problem, you will need to find
which configuration file is the problem. I guess you could try to start by
removing Konsole's configuration files first (or just move them, in case
it does not solve the problem, so that you could restore them then)

I also noticed that you speak about using Konsole on XFCE. I guess you
have your reasons, but since it is not solved, maybe you could use
xfce4-terminal?


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Re: What is libspeedchd2.............

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 3 mai 2013 7:45, Charlie a écrit :


 Debian wheezy and to upgrade chromium requires libspeedchd2, but it
 doesn't show up as a debian file?

 aptitude search libspeedchd2

 Nothing shows?

I have found only one thing about such thing on the web, here it is Looks
like the package is speech-dispatcher-devel.
It was a fedora user who asked, so I guess the one which reply was another
one... I have no more info, sorry.


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Re: Problem with Konsole

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 3 mai 2013 10:20, Lisi Reisz a écrit :
 On Friday 03 May 2013 09:16:32 Lisi Reisz wrote:

 On Friday 03 May 2013 09:02:56 Morel Bérenger wrote:

 Le Jeu 2 mai 2013 21:03, Stephen P. Molnar a écrit :

 64 bit Debian Testing/XFCE.



 When I open a console an untitled X File Window opens.  This just
 started today and I don't have a clue as to what is going on.

 It is rather annoying because I don't get a prompt in the console
 until I close this unwanted app.



 Does anyone have an idea as to what is going on here and how I can
 fix the problem?

 Thanks in advance.


 [snip]


 I also noticed that you speak about using Konsole on XFCE.


 He didn't!!  There is no mention of Konsole.  He talks about a
 console. The generic term, not the KDE version of it.


 Sorry.  It is in the subject line.  I just read the post.  Mea culpa. :-(
  Perhaps the K in the subject line was a slip of the tongue.


 Lisi

No problem :)

And since the 'K' is not a 'k' I really think he is using the KDE's console.


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Re: cmake dependency error while compiling darktable (glib2.0 too old)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 29 avril 2013 21:42, Markus Neviadomski a écrit :
 Am 29.04.2013 11:02, schrieb Morel Bérenger:

 Le Sam 27 avril 2013 15:10, Markus Neviadomski a écrit :

 Thats the error:
 -- Found xsltproc
 CMake Error at cmake/modules/FindGlib.cmake:33 (message):
 Glib version check failed.  Version 2.24.2 was found, at least version
  2.28
 is required Call Stack (most recent call first): src/CMakeLists.txt:120
 (find_package)


 Try to remove all files cmake added. Typically, you have made a folder
 like $SRC/build in which you ran cmake ... Remove all files in it and
 then redo the cmake .. and it should work if all dependencies are
 installed.

 Thanks! Thats the solution, it works. It is crazy behviour. cmake should
 check the dependencies at each time and update its database.

No. It is primarily a development tool, and we loose enough time like that
in compilation.

 Or provide a
 command switch like apt-get clean-all i think.

I did not tried that at the moment, but maybe simply running cmake solves
the problem. I usually remove everything because I'm mostly working on
small projects where cmake and compilation does not take that many time,
and because I think it is the easier way to avoid problems :)



 These dependecies are needed by darktable:


 You could have used following commands to ease your job:


 # aptitude build-dep darktable
 # aptitude source darktable --compile



 Thanks for your advice! Get the source from repositories was not my
 goal, because i need the current stable snapshot from git.

So the first instruction will help you. I often see on forums huge
command-lines to compile things, where the first one is enough.


Anyway, I'm happy to know that your problem is fixed.


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Re: terminal emulator compatible with Ecma-48

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Dim 28 avril 2013 16:45, Chris Davies a écrit :
 lxterm supports blink. PuTTY (on [at least] Windows) also supports blink
 -
 just not by default.

 tput blink; echo hello; tput sgr0 hello   - this flashes in 
 lxterm


Thanks, I will try this one.

 So, I would like to know if someone knows about a terminal emulator
 supporting all the standard or, at least, which explicitly says which
 part of it it supports.

 The PuTTY FAQ seems to claim that it's either implemented everything
 or else documented what it hasn't implemented. This might be a good
 starting point.

 Chris

This sounds perfect.


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Re: terminal emulator compatible with Ecma-48

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Dim 28 avril 2013 17:59, Roger Leigh a écrit :
 The standard is not intended to be
 implemented in its entirety from my reading of it

We have the same document :)
But it says that to be compliant (it says exactly that it would be a
limited conformance), one must say which parts of it are implemented, or
are not. (see 2.1)

 That said, such a terminal would be quite
 desirable to have.  Though time has moved on, and there are a number of
 shortcomings in the standard which any implementor would want to address,
 probably via vendor-specific extensions.

Vendor-specific extensions have an official place in the current standard.
But as you said, the standard is huge, so just having a full
implementation, or one without deprecated stuff (as modes) would be a
probably more than what I will need :D
But it could really be useful.

 terminals are now implemented in software, it would be perfectly possible
 to implement very advanced functionality such as SVG-compatible vector
 graphics and OpenGL in terms of the escape command sequences (or an
 equivalent alternative).

Sounds interesting but I still see terminals as interfaces for text only,
so I must admit I have some doubts about the usefulness of supporting SVG
rendering.
Also, the standard sounds like designed to be efficient in the use of
bandwith, it uses text (numbers in fact) for parameters, but other stuff
is not really text (but often have textual representations, of course),
unlike SVG where stuff sounds really linked to character encoding (and in
my opinion, not really efficient in terms of bandwidth usage like all XML
stuff, but that's only my personal opinion).
But I do not think it is a problem, since Ecma-48 voluntarily let spaces
for further extensions. I guess the better solution here would be to use a
plug-in system: having a basic standard set hard-coded (say, VT100, to
mimic other terminals), and other sets + extensions implemented as
plug-ins (dynamic or not is not the question here) so that they would be
easier to implement and add/remove.

 I've had plans to write a new terminal emulator for several years;

A huge work for which I have no real clue about where to start.
And I also have some other stuff to do before even trying to think about
such a project :)


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Re: /dev/dsp diparait souvent et...

[Morel Bérenger]

Here is a rough translation of his message:

/dev/dsp often disappear and is replaced (or accompanied) by /dev/dsp1 (or
2) but when there is no /dev/dsp he can not use skype (or have sound on
youtube).

The command alsa force-reload solves the problem (it fixes /dev/dsp) ,
but is not really handy, so some informations about how to solve the
problem would be useful.


Le Dim 28 avril 2013 11:49, effemer...@gmail.com a écrit :
 Bonjour,


 ...et est remplacé (ou est accompagné par) par /dev/dsp1...ou 2.


 Bref qd j'ai pas  /dev/dsp je peux pas me servir de skype (ou j'ai pas
 le son sur youtube etc...)

 Un alsa force-reload résout le pb (ça rétablit /dev/dsp) mais bon pas
 franchement pratique.

 Une recette miracle (mais pérenne) ou un mini tuto qui explique bien ?



 Persil beaucoup
 Arrosoir

Tu ne risques pas d'avoir beaucoup de réponses en écrivant en français sur
une liste internationale... et ce même en postant 2 fois avec 2 adresses
différentes.



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Re: cmake dependency error while compiling darktable (glib2.0 too old)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Sam 27 avril 2013 15:10, Markus Neviadomski a écrit :
 Thats the error:
 -- Found xsltproc
 CMake Error at cmake/modules/FindGlib.cmake:33 (message):
 Glib version check failed.  Version 2.24.2 was found, at least version
 2.28
 is required Call Stack (most recent call first):
 src/CMakeLists.txt:120 (find_package)

Try to remove all files cmake added. Typically, you have made a folder
like $SRC/build in which you ran cmake ...
Remove all files in it and then redo the cmake .. and it should work if
all dependencies are installed.

 These dependecies are needed by darktable:

You could have used following commands to ease your job:

# aptitude build-dep darktable
# aptitude source darktable --compile


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Re: Fwd: Question

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 25 avril 2013 20:03, german carutti a écrit :
 Hello.
 I am a teacher of hardware and software Argentina high school and
 yesterday I was going to buy a cell phone, my main option was android, but
 I have
 found that this system is corporate because you are not allowed to modify,
 interact with the root and also google can see who your contacts,
 calendar, where you are and you do. This agreement does not violate the use
 of free software?

I do not think so. It depends about software licences only. Maybe the
tools on Android are not Open Source Softwares? I only know that it is
based on linux kernel, but it does not imply to have only Free
Softwares...

 No one would have units Alternative to this?
 Thanks for your time.

The Mozilla foundation recently released their OS for smartphones, maybe
this could help you?
The problem is that currently the phones with this OS are not available:
they did not built enough of them :)
If you really want to be able to tinker stuff on your phone and if you
have enough time, I guess you could wait until some become re-available.


PS: this is the Debian user list, this question would have not been
off-topic there, since this one is dedicated to questions about Debian,
not about linux in general.


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Re: Install debian from scratch and keep a home partition

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 25 avril 2013 12:54, Dan a écrit :
 Hi,


 As I explained in a previous email I had an issue with the ATI driver
 and squeeze and I decided to wipe squeeze and install wheezy. Luckily the
 home partition is separated from the rest.

 Which would be the best way to proceed?


 I was going to do the following:


 - Backup home and the files from /etc passwd, group, shadow and gshadow

As other have said, I do not think keeping files from passwd, group,
shadow and gshadow is a good idea.

 - Install wheezy (I think it is possible to wipe the partition during
 the installation) - Remove the home directory

Simply keep the home dir and specify the installer that you will want it
mounted as your /home. If possible, remove configuration files (but keep a
backup for next steps) before reinstalling.

 - Mount the old home partition using fstab (using also blkid in order
 to use the UUID) - merge the old passwd, group, shadow and gshadow with the
 new files found in /etc

I have to idea about why you are bothering with UUIDs here: simply say to
installer you want to use your current home partition as /home and that
you do not want to format it, and you'll be done.


For stuff in /etc and ~/, I think the best is to compare the version you
will have backed up to current ones.
Some tools you can use:
_ diff for command-line. I do not think this is really the best one
honestly, because you will see differences, but syncing files to something
coherent is boring with the combination of diff and a text editor.
_ meld if you use a gtk-based desktop (it also works on other, but maybe
KDE have a better tool for that). This one is the one I use when I need to
merge source code files: it's GUI is comfortable to use, and will allow
you to send to destination only differences you want quite easily.


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Re: Don't do that!

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 23 avril 2013 19:00, Kelly Clowers a écrit :
 On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Hans-J. Ullrich hans.ullr...@loop.de
 wrote:

 Today I learnt this: Do NOT use ext4 for the /boot partition, where
 your kernel resides.

 I did this on my EEEPC to speed up boot, and today I got at boot the
 error message: initrd.img corrupt. My EEEPC has got an ssd inside and
 /usr, /home
 and /var are encrypted partitions.

 It took me hours and hours to fix this. First I tried ext2fs, with no
 success. I could run Trinity Rescue Kit from a sd card, and I created a
 chroot, but not all was possible to do in the chroot.

 After lots of tries I got the solution:


 1. I backuped all the content of /boot to another drive.
 2. Booted with a livefile and formatted /boot to ext2.
 3. Restored /boot
 4. Edited /etc/fstab, removed the UUID of /boot and removed
 disacard,noatime 5. Now I could boot again.
 6. From the running system started update-initramfs -u
 7. Did dpkg-reconfigure linux-base, so I got the UUID in all necessary
 config files again. 8. For making all sure. did update-grub
 9. Finally test, rebooted again, everything was ok.


 So NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use ext4 for /boot! Don't do it!
 (If I would have read the manual, I should have known, ext4 and grub is
 still in experimental state)


 My /boot is just part of root, and it is ext4. Never had any issue.
 If I did have a separate /boot partition, I would use ext2 or 3 or 4
 with out the journal, since it would eat up a bit of space on a small
 partition. But that is it.

 Cheers,
 Kelly Clowers

Agree, I did the same.
Just, I've added the noatime on /boot, since there is really no use to
write time at each access. To speed up things.

Now, I'm using an ext2, since there is no interest into using other
features on a partition I only write on when there is a kernel change.
Want to have faster stuff? Take one with less features.

Note that I use ext4 for all my partitions (except tmp and boot, of
course, since an advanced FS for them is useless. I also often set some
other flags, since some are only useful on /) since 2 years, and never had
any problem.

Well, I must also say to be complete that I have never used encrypted
stuff until now.


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Re: Don't do that!

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 24 avril 2013 9:42, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
 On Wed, 2013-04-24 at 09:10 +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:

 Just, I've added the noatime on /boot, since there is really no use to
 write time at each access. To speed up things.

 *lol*


 I've got reasons to use noatime for partitions, to speed up access, but
 it definitive won't speed up anything when accessing /boot ;), the win is
 far, far below a second.


My apologies you are true :)


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Re: Wheezy Sleezy Gnome

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 24 avril 2013 7:56, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :


 On Tue, 2013-04-23 at 19:08 -0700, cletusjenkins wrote:

 xfce looks the best of the bunch to me.

 Xfce4 has got to many GNOME dependencies. I'm using it since years, but
 I don't like it, I just couldn't find a good DE until now. Things for
 Xfce4 are as often broken, as they are for GNOME, assumed you expect a
 GNOME2/Xfce4 workflow. What I call broken, others might call features.

Maybe you could take a look at LXDE? There are still dependencies to GTK2
as XFCE, but those are not Gnome deps...


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Re: Highlighting CLI output: what are these terms called?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 17 avril 2013 10:22, Dotan Cohen a écrit :
 The following page has a nice example of how to highlight text in
 logfiles:
 http://www.euperia.com/linux/how-to-highlight-keywords-when-using-tail/903


 Here is the example:
 tail -f file.log | perl -pe 's/keyword/\e[1;31;43m$\e[0m/g'

 What are the regex replacements in the second part of the replace
 called? They are rather hard to goolge for without a name! If anybody has a
 good resource bookmarked with examples, I would love to see that as well.

 Thank you!

Those are escape sequences from VT100 IIRC.
And, if I am not wrong, they are quite the same as those used in ecma-48,
which have free (as in free beer) specifications downloadable here:
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-048.htm

Have fun :)

Note: this spec is quite easy to read, unlike many other I have read.


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Re: Unexpected results attempting to install Squeeze(6.0.5) to USB flash drive

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 16 avril 2013 21:46, Richard Owlett a écrit :
 CAUTION: My goal does *NOT* resemble a normal install


 I want to do a full install to a USB flash drive (thumb
 drive). I am not looking to run the installer ISO from the flash drive. I
 do not want a LIVE install with or without persistence.

 Due to constraints of another personal project I first
 investigated using LILO as bootloader. I made several tries and always
 ended up in some sort of CLI shell.

 *QUESTION:* Before I start a futile trouble shooting
 procedure, is LILO known to work when installed from the Debian 6.0.5 set
 of DVDs?

Yes. At least, on my computer :)

If you want to try some other, there is also syslinux which is often used.


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Re: remove unwanted services/packages

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 12 avril 2013 10:30, binary dreamer a écrit :
 Hi. i have done a clean install of debian making use of the debootstrap
 and installing only the base system in a pcengines ALIX 2d13. This system
 will run only asterisk (CLI) and i need it to be as skinny as possible. i
 have removed exim4 and ftp. What other services/packages i could remove to
 make it as light as possible? There is nothing such as gui on this system.
  the installation of asterisk will take place by me from source.

 Some guidance please, to trim it down.



The way I usually do big cleaning up is a little risky (and long to
apply), but may inspire you:

I use the aptitude ncurses interface, go at package's root and mark
everything as needing to be removed. Vital packages then ask to enter a
loong phrase, which I do not so they'll stay installed.
Then, I simple enable one by one packages which gave me features I need.

As I said, it is risky, and I do not think I would like to use such a
procedure on a computer which is not mine.

The other solution, far easier, faster and safer, but which need a full
re-installation, is to install debian, and when the installer asks you to
select packages you want, to uncheck all boxes, including base system.
Even without base system, you will have tools to install/remove packages,
including aptitude.


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Re: Using unstable for certain packages

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 12 avril 2013 13:33, Tom Browder a écrit :
 Is it possible to fine tune the package sources so as to use unstable
 only for certain packages?

 Best  regards,

Sure.
The technique is named apt-pinning, you can find some documentation here:
http://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences


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Re: debian-6.0.7-amd64 how to set resolution and refresh for free NVIDIA X drivers?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 9 avril 2013 18:59, David Christensen a écrit :
 I have used the proprietary NVIDIA driver in the past, but would like to
 use the free Debian drivers instead.

Free NVidia drivers by Debian does *not* exists. There is only a package
which installs NVidia's drivers.

The easier and simpler, if you do not need good 3D acceleration is to
install nouveau instead of NVidia, which is a driver made from reverse
engineering.
In last kernels (around 3.8), it seems that there is also support for
better 3D acceleration, however I did not tried it since Debian at the
moment only have that kernel in experimental (and when I tried it, few
things broke. Did not investigate though).

Nouveau have the very good feature of not needing any Xorg.conf file: you
install it, you boot with it, it detects everything alone.

In short:
_ nouveau: free software, perfect integration in the system, average and
unfinished support (in linux 3.2 kernel) of 3D harware acceleration,
support all cards: both new and old(nouveau-vieu is what you would want).
_ NVidia: proprietary software, bad integration in the system, support for
advanced 3D features, no support for old cards.

 2.  How do I determine the current color depth (e.g. 8/16/24 bits per
 pixel)?

IIRC:
xrandr --output port you used: VGA, HMDI, etc --list

 3.  How do I change the display settings -- resolution, refresh, color
 depth?

xrandr --output port you used --mode your parameters

Play with xrandr in a terminal emulator, and when you have what you want,
add the command to your DE's startup list (depends on your DEs)


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Re: debian-6.0.7-amd64 how to set resolution and refresh for free NVIDIA X drivers?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 10 avril 2013 11:28, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
 On Wed, 2013-04-10 at 10:51 +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:

 In last kernels (around 3.8), it seems that there is also support for
 better 3D acceleration

 Nouveau was a PITA for a long time, but nowadays it usually works like a
 charm, 3D acceleration is very good.

It is not still not working like a charm, since I tried kernel 3.8 to try
a game (regnum online, bugged as hell, but at least it have a linux client
which is playable) which perfectly works with official NVidia. The result
with nouveau of 3.8 was only a black screen (for 3.2 the game simply said
that some features were lacking and closed).

Another problem I know by following linuxfr, is that automatic adjustment
of fan speed according to temperature is not functional. At least,
according to a guy who claimed to be a contributor of nouveau :) (I did
not checked his assertions, I have other things to do than mistrust people
which give fairly good technical explanations and are recognized by more
ancient people of the community than me)

There is still a lack of support for dual card configuration (I have such
configuration, but I do not use it anyway: my two cards are just cheap
ones and the second were bought after an error of mine about which
component of my computer was out of order...) and IIRC card switching that
we can find in some portable computers.

Of course, those features which are lacking are only for special cases,
and for all other stuff, nouveau is really good, my intent is not to deny
that fact, and I am waiting impatiently to see the 3.8 kernel in debian
testing, to get rid of that piece of crap named nvidia drivers, which only
give me problems and the ability to play one or two games I could not
otherwise play (nexuiz is still unplayable with nouveau 3.2 too, but it's
engine really became a PITA in performance point of view).

Wesnoth, unvanquished, openmw and so many other which have a free engine
works like a charm (on the graphic point of view, since I have real
problems with unvanquished, which I should try to solve, one day, because
this game is a really good -and different than average FPS- one).

Anyway, nouveau have always (since I know it, so, not so many time, maybe
2 years :D) be the best when you have no need for 3D features.
And now, 3D features are coming, so, I will profit from that message to
say Good job, guys, and thanks you a lot! to it's developers.


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Re: wheezy still missing php5-suhosin

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 10 avril 2013 12:36, Andrew McGlashan a écrit :
 Will php5-suhosin be re-instated any time soon?

I have no clue about what instated means :)

 And if not, what
 measures can we take to protect Wheezy servers now?

Maybe you can reuse the old package.
Check the dependencies, it is possible that there has been no changes in
them.
If there has been, take a look to applications' changelogs, to see if the
new versions are compatible with the existing dependencies.

As you might know, there is a more or less standard versioning scheme
named semantic versioning (it is quite easy to understand even for a
non-native english user like me. You can find it's description here:
http://semver.org/). If dependencies uses it, you will be able to check
compatibility quite quickly: if major number did not changed, then you are
fine.
Of course, since you are willing to use this tool on a production server,
I strongly encourage you to take a look into changelogs and/or ask to
their developers to ensure nothing should be broken.


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Re: debian-6.0.7-amd64 how to set resolution and refresh for free NVIDIA X drivers?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 10 avril 2013 12:02, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
 Yes, AFAIK all your claims a correct! I needed the nv driver for a long
 time, because nouveau completely didn't work, today it can be possible (but
 it also still can be impossible) to use 3D and even to use the driver for
 real-time applications, even for cards that completely didn't work in the
 past. It's much better than it was a long time ago.

 At the moment I use my ATI, it seems to be less good supported than my
 NVIDIA. I switch the cards from time to time, regarding to unusual
 needs, in my case it's audio real-time.

 I still use xorg.conf, but it could be that xrandr does work as good as
 the xorg.conf does work.

The main interest of xrandr in my opinion is, that it is far easier to
play with than what I can easily name the ugly Xorg.conf.
Here are some examples:
_ user can configure his screen himself, no need to sudo or su
_ no need to restart anything, it's dynamic. You can
add/move/remove/resize screens without any problem at your will.
_ far easier to learn for a beginner: it took less than 10 minutes, while
Xorg.conf will require hours of web browsing. And web browsing without a
good resolution is a pain in...
_ if your multiple screens have different resolutions, there is no ghost
space, so you can not loose your mouse cursor.
_ it have nice GUI interfaces (I do not use them, but I think it is a
power to have some) like lxrandr. So if you want a normal user to use it,
he will not need to learn anything :)

Considering that my 2 computers are some of the cheapest I know about (an
eeepc laptop and a desktop repaired multiple times with 2 different
screens, and one which will blow it's 10th candle this year, with its
1024x768 max resolution :D) this power of the randr extension is really
comfortable.

And nouveau supports all of this out of the box since at least 2 years,
unlike NVidia.

I think you should take a look at this
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix if you want to have a
good viewing of were it is for your GPU.

Just one question: what is the link between audio stuff and graphic card?


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Re: debian-6.0.7-amd64 how to set resolution and refresh for free NVIDIA X drivers?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 10 avril 2013 16:43, Jonathan Dowland a écrit :
 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:49:14AM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:

 [Nouveau]'s not still not working like a charm, since I tried kernel
 3.8 to
 try a game (regnum online, bugged as hell, but at least it have a linux
 client which is playable) which perfectly works with official NVidia.
 The
 result with nouveau of 3.8 was only a black screen (for 3.2 the game
 simply said that some features were lacking and closed).

 For *you*, which does not mean that this is the experience for
 *everyone*.
 Therefore there's no reason to try and discourage *anyone else* from using
  Nouveau, unless you know categorically what in particular about your
 setup is to blame for your troubles (e.g. a specific video card), and the
 person you are discouraging has the same setup.

 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:49:14AM +0200, Morel Bérenger wrote:
 Of course, those features which are lacking are only for special cases,
 and for all other stuff, nouveau is really good, my intent is not to deny
 that fact, and I am waiting impatiently to see the 3.8 kernel in debian
 testing, to get rid of that piece of crap named nvidia drivers, which only
 give me problems and the ability to play one or two games I could not
 otherwise play

This other part of my message was also explaining that it depends on the
needs of the person which want to try it.
The cases were it currently does not fit the needs of people is when heavy
3D acceleration, optimius support, or dynamic fan speed depending on
temperature is needed.
In other situations, I have not said it was not a good idea, did I?
I also said that the kernel 3.8 seems to have a fairly bettre version of
nouveau driver, which I was not able to test efficiently due to problems I
did not even tried to diagnose and fix.

I thought it was clear, but is sounds it was not, so I present my
apologies, and thanks you to have fixed my unclear words.


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Re: Chromium on Sid Very Slow

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 14 mars 2013 20:39, David Baron a écrit :
 This is supposed to be the fastest browser but not right now.

I think that when you read XXX is the YYYest in the world then you are
trying to use a software for which people are paid to lie.
Well, it does not help, I know, but think a little about that.

Now, I do not especially known chromium, but do you have installed
recommended packages, by example?
Did you checked that there are no extensions or stuff alike?


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Re: OT: Windows, a command-line OS (Was: Re: Not for me.)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 4 mars 2013 23:35, Alois Mahdal a écrit :
 Well, I might be wrong, I'm not an admin... but if one here
 knows how to remove, say, explorer.exe, I would be very happy to learn
 how to [...]

 Maybe a good start:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement

I have already found some years ago, but nothing satisfying me, sadly.
Last year I also found some window managers, but, anew, I did not found
something able to replace the windows' window manager: only stuff to add a
layer, with all the flaws it gave, considering how poorly windows is able
to configure keyboard shortcuts (when the SUPER/WINDOWS/WHATEVER key is
involved, at least).

 [...] since it would mean I could replace the
 buggy (I stopped at windows XP, it may explain my harsh words... or not.)
 graphical stuff with something more stable.

 Maybe I'm wearing pink glasses, maybe bugs are afraid of me,
 maybe it's kind of like Stockholm syndrome or maybe I'm just a lucky
 bastard.  But I don't remember having real problems with explorer.exe in
 past like three years. (Win 7 but formerly XP at work...)

 (Or maybe my memory does a good editing job for
 me--Except for occasional gaming I have managed to avoid Win for almost
 three months now.)

I do not now if you are lucky or ... , but, for example, I have a quite
funny and reproducible crash, which involves Xming (do not remember the
version, I only uses that tool at work, to use my own computer's but with
the enterprise screen and keyboard, the only 2 things which can beat my
laptop: screen by size, keyboard by being noisy to show I am using it :D
).

To reproduce:
_ xming is installed
_ some folders have a toolbar on desktop, one of them containing a file
to open with xming
_ host have a different hash (changing IP is usually how it changes)

When those conditions are present (quite often in my situation) then xming
crashes, *with* explorer (process separation, where are you?) and the only
way you have is to run the taskmanager, kill explorer and restart it.
Then, I become able to start xming linked with my computer, without more
problems.
Of course, xming had the first problem, but I can not see why explorer
have to follow it in death.

This one is only the one I am able to reproduce on a daily basis, of course.
taskmgr is really a useful software.

 Also, about the CLI: I have also written quite bunch of cmd.exe
 scripts, and my experience is that basically what worked in 2000, worked
 the same all the way up to Win 8.

 For Windows CLI syntax, there has been some evolution
 (command.com = cmd.exe) which happened to turn the mess into a
 big mess. It was positive, though:  with command.com, it was only
 spaghetti. With cmd.exe, it was like spaghetti ON STEROIDS. (Read:
 stronger than you and agressive to your brain.)

I agree.
MS-DOS was pretty usable with some configuration, IIRC, when it was the
real one (ok, far from current bash anyway). But when they stopped the 9x
branch of windows, they removed many useful commands, and also modified
options of existing ones: MS-DOS dir command was far more powerful than
the one XP SP3 embeds.
But maybe it is some nostalgia, considering I started tinkering on MS-DOS
and QBasic :)

This year, I discovered PowerShell, but the only thing I have found
powerful in it (considering that I am a linux user, a windows user should
be really impressed by that, I suppose.) was the pretentious name, the
length of lines, the lack of history and the poor auto-completion.

With windows, I can not imagine using command line as file explorer, and
on my linux computers I have no longer file explorers (graphical or
semi-graphical).


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Re: Moving from a proprietary OS - unnecessarily inful experience -- was [Re: I wish to advocate linux]

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 5 mars 2013 16:37, Martin McCormick a écrit :
 Miles Fidelman writes:
 In Linux/Unix in general, we have a concept that is
 rather old of output being something you can send where it needs to go
 because you may not always predict where somebody will need to send it for
 a particular job.

 In Windows and nitch operating systems for many
 purposes, Some designer just figured the screen was good for everybody and
 there is no way to divert text and numbers to any other device.

Well, sorry, I have to disagree here.
The short (and trollesque) version:
*Linux:
_ systemd: happy trolling, I won't go further :P
_ xorg: this link
(http://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_6) explains
correctly that Xorg needs tons of stuff which is no longer used nowadays.
I think we often call unused stuff: bloat.
*Windows:
_ coreutils: are implemented. Just an example, of course, since I myself
am able to implement tools I do in a portable way, and I love to create
CLI stuff. Drawing windows is quite boring IMHO...

The longer version:
The problem is not *nix vs windows, or linux vs whatever, and the problem
is not age of dev, too.

It is only a problem of philosophy. UNIX starting philosophy was that
softwares should only do one thing, and do it well. It also states that
they should use text human readable inputs and outputs.
Few months ago (maybe 2 years?), I have simply made the link with object
oriented programming.

In both ways of thinking, you have highly specialized softwares/classes
and easy to understand interfaces.
But, I also think that both ways of thinking are hard to follow, because
they require the ability to *focus* on one task at a time, to refrain the
will to add useful features, to accept that the first idea you had
and/or stuff other says are not the best solutions, and many other
qualities.
All those qualities needs time to be acquired.
But how many depends on people: some will understand basics of OOP quite
fast, other will need years. I am (I hope I *was* but I can not judge
that, only other people can say if a software is clean or not. And when I
encounter a kind of problem for the first time, I'm still doing dirty code
first...) in the second group.

When you have understood OOP's principles, you notice that your programs
are simple libraries, for which you write front-ends (command line or
ncurses or gtk or qt... those are only front-ends anyway). CLI interfaces
are easier to debug (because they are easier to automate) so I prefer to
firstly implement this one, but not always (a drawing software does not
really take sense in CLI, by example. At least, _I_ do not see the
point.).
Strangely, when I take a look at projects, I more often see one binary
containing logic and interface (and sometimes more than one interface... I
did not take a close enough look at aptitude, but I bet all source code is
in the same binary?).
And I bet it was the same 15 years ago. My teachers tried to taught me to
do like that... When I think about that, I feel quite happy to have
started learning long before having programming lessons.

 Younger people tend to be cought up in what's here now
 and, if they are not careful, they think it is as good as it gets.

But, their teachers said them that if the user is not happy, he will buy
hardware. Yes, really. I have heard mines saying that about memory usage,
and I bet that if at that moment I had asked them about blind people and
such kind of stuff they would have said do not worry about that too.
And my teacher who said that people have just to buy some more RAM units
was not really someone I would qualify of young man.

 That is just one example of countless other examples and
 I don't wish for a minute that we were in an earlier time, but
 let's value collective wisdom. It can sure save us a lot of trouble if we
 take advantage of it.

Well, when things come to computer sciences, I would not trust too
strongly the collective wisdom. Take a look at modern stuff, and you will
understand:
HTML5, an adaptation of a network protocol specialized in downloads with
format detection, is now used to stream videos, play games... and people
says that's a good news.
XML is now often seen as the ultimate format (and HTML5 is only derived
from it, of course...), but it is very, very verbose. Considering that
network bandwith is not an infinite resource, and that parsing XML is not
something which cost nothing, I have real difficulties to understand
why... JSON sometimes takes the advantage on XML. It is a little less
verbose, so I think it is a little better.
Nowadays, your favorite IDE will probably implement a plug-in interface.
This interface will be specific to IDE, of course. Some of it's uses will
be, by example, to know your files' names, and where they are. Most IDE's
users will quickly say that it is easier than command-line stuff... but
why those tools does not simply use ls or dir (depending on the OS) ?

Those are a small samples of collective wisdom, linked 

Re: Restarting Networking in Debian

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 6 mars 2013 20:47, Jonathan Cohen a écrit :
 This message contains confidential information and is intended only for
 the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
 disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender
 immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and
 delete this e-mail from your system.


Huh... I fear my name is not debian-user :)


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Re: Not for me.

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 4 mars 2013 22:26, Joe a écrit :
 On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 14:54:50 -0600
 Yaro Kasear y...@marupa.net wrote:
 Mark is wrong, Windows is also a command-line OS.

Hum... for windows 9x (and Me, and 3.x) ok, since they are based on MSDOS,
but for NT family, there is no way to run it without graphical layer.
In that family, the commandline is an option, unlike graphical modes, and
unlike linux distributions, where the graphical stuff is optional.

Well, I might be wrong, I'm not an admin... but if one here knows how to
remove, say, explorer.exe, I would be very happy to learn how to, since it
would mean I could replace the buggy (I stopped at windows XP, it may
explain my harsh words... or not.) graphical stuff with something more
stable.


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BSD more secure? was: Re: 10 top myths of debian

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Sam 2 mars 2013 4:44, Miles Fidelman a écrit :
 Yaro Kasear wrote:

 I don't know if Debian's the most SECURE distribution. It doesn't
 really have a hardened profile or anything like what Gentoo offers.
 (Gentoo isn't a prime example of a secure Linux system, I more point
 to the concept of having a hardened base available, whihc Debian
 doesn't really offer.) Debian's known for being incredibly STABLE and
 high quality, and embraces FOSS standards pretty well.

 But unless Debian is bundling an alternate base system built around
 stuff like Tomoyo, GrSecurity, PaX, or SELinux and starts loading up
 their packages with hardened patchsets I wouldn't boast about it being a
 security-focused distro.


 The backports are an excellent thing. And the Debian security team
 does an excellent job. Lets just be realistic and a little more honest
 and say Debian is one of the most secure but I can't call it THE most
 secure unless the system can go hardened readily.


 Good point.  And when you start talking security to the point of serious
 testing and configuration control, I believe there are very few
 distributions that are on the DoD approved product list.

 On the BSD side, OpenBSD (despite the name), focuses on security, and
 has a pretty good reputation for being pretty secure.

 Miles Fidelman

I'm a newbie about kernels, but I have read (and maybe misunderstood)
which stated the bsd kernel was more secure. So, if you use the kfreebsd
kernel on a Debian, is it closer to that hardened security?
It is a real question, sorry for the OT, but I am just taking the occasion
to learn a bit about differences between those kernels.


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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 28 février 2013 11:32, Chris Bannister a écrit :
 [Please keep attributions, I presume you are not answering yourself!]
 On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:39:09AM +0100, Morel Bérenger wrote:


 what? That's absurd. The only people I know who have their OS
 installed at a shop are Apple users.

 Sounds like an ideal country. In France, even if it is illegal, all
 computers have an installed OS on them. And guess which one?

 have their OS installed at a shop != have an installed OS on them.

Sorry, misunderstood :)


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Re: Moving from a proprietary OS - unnecessarily inful experience -- was [Re: I wish to advocate linux]

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 1 mars 2013 0:20, Miles Fidelman a écrit :
 - those of us who go back a bit date from a time when computer science
 was an offshoot of electrical engineering
 analog and digital circuitry before ever touching a computer - gives a
 very different perspective than starting with programming

I agree for the hardware approach. I do not agree for the a bit date from
a time... since there are still people studying electronic.
This is not an age problem.
I'm less than 30 years old, and only have low grades. But I have knowledge
of electricity laws. And my lack of grades and/or age do not imply that I
could not understand/use any old computer.
In fact, I'm sure that I would think of them as nice toys. Real mode is
easier to manipulate than protected mode, and x86 assembly was far easier
before 32 bit computers.

 - one of the results of this experience is that hardware compatibility
 and driver issues are second nature to those who grew up with them; whereas
 younger folks who have grown up with pre-loaded operating systems and
 plug and play devices tend to find linux (and BSD)
 installations a bit more daunting (leading in many cases to whining)

Old peoples quickly whine those kind of things, too. Think about it:
Before, we had no need of Internet. There were less things to understand.
We had less codes to remember.
You know, there are young people who were used to DOS before being 10
years old.
We are used to hardware boring stuff, and when I see the word
SoundBlaster, it always makes me remember of those games were I spent time
to have sounds, when I known no word of English.
People who whine, do that anyway. Being 20 or 70 years old changes nothing.

On the other side, Linux driver stuff is more boring because you have to
guess the modules names. To try to compile a damn kernel with only stuff
you really need is a pain, whatever documents says. Of course, typing
make  make install is easy. But choosing options is not.
When you are using a widely used system, you have far more problems (I had
more problems of unrecognized hardware on windows than on linux), but when
they are solved, it is far more quickly and in a more friendly way. People
does not even have to understand what is a compilation.
Being a programmer, I feel like people see computer sciences as dark
magic, and computing people as sorcerers (just for that, I should try
that distro, sorcerer ;) ). I wonder if I could continue that analogy by
comparing linux users to necromancers :D (after all, we are able to revive
old computers hehe)

 - also, those of us who date back a few years still think of computers
 as things that need some assembly and bring that view to system software
 as well

Well, here, let me laugh.
Something which needs some assembly, is composed of objects, right?
When you built your computer, you do not try to reproduce the cards
before, they are simple objects?
What are objects in programming? OOP. Modules. Stuff you can reuse without
having to understand exactly how it works, simply read the doc, and plug
the lib in your software.

Now, I remember a colleague, ~50 years old (when I was ~25), which had a
really strange thinking of Oriented Object Programming or simply about how
to reuse: when he wanted to reuse something, he simply copied/pasted parts
of source code from the lib into his software... What he was doing worked,
and he sometimes impressed me, but his conception of re-usability was a
shame.

Anew, age is not relevant here.
What is relevant is programmer's ability to split complex problems in
simpler ones, to solve those multiple problems, and to use all those
simple solutions to build a more complex one which will solve the initial
problem.

 Which leads me to take just a little issue with your comment that
 younger people have more useful experience.  I'm actually not entirely
 sure that's true.  If anything, younger people have narrower (or at least
 different) experience.

Well, you have a lot of deprecated experience. I do not want to
denigrate your knowledge, since it gave you a way to think and do things
and since young programmers are full of such deprecated knowledge, but how
useful is now your knowledge about motorola assembly? About INT 21H? About
address A000: in mode 13H?
That knowledge was very useful yesterday, but now, it is deprecated,
unusable.
It imply that you know some basics about memory and CPU, but in itself, it
have now no use.
And I only mentioned stuff of 90's here. Only 20 years old.


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Re: tar - unresponsive machine

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 28 février 2013 19:22, Vincent Lefevre a écrit :
 But isn't it possible to lower the priority automatically (without
 an additional command like ionice) when a process takes all the I/O
 resources. Perhaps this isn't clear, but what I mean is that a process
 shouldn't take constantly all the resources for itself. I expect the
 resources to be more or less equitably shared (which is not what
 best-effort does, as described in the ionice(1) man page).

I think (but it is maybe wrong) that maybe you can recompile the kernel
and change the preemption model.


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Re: Removing commited versions from git history

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 28 février 2013 3:53, T o n g a écrit :
 Hi,


 I want to permanently delete an old revision (or revisions) of single
 file from Git. Specifically, I want to delete from my public git server
 repo my initial published version of one single file, but keep the rest of
 its revisions. How can I do that?

I'm sorry, I can not reply to your question, but, I was wondering, what is
the reason to remove the first version of a file from the history of a git
repository?
It sounds like a bit against normal use of VCS in my mind...


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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

 I posit that your problem with Linux is YOU!

 What are you doing here? You obviously don't care about helping people.

You are wrong.
She is trying to help you to understand that your problem with linux is
located between your computer and your chair.
Well, but I suspect that, to reproduce the problem, you need to sit down
yourself there.

Anyway, thanks for allowing people to have fun in boring days :D


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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

 Cities that switched from Microsoft to Linux, for their departments,
 switched back to Windows.

Not all. IIRC I've heard of Zurich, recently, said anew that it is
interesting to switch to linux because very, very cheaper.

And in France, policemen (at least one, affiliated to military) are using
Ubuntu in their desktops.

I am quite sure they are other counter examples, but I do not really take
care about worldwide adoption of linux. It exists, I can use it, and if
people ask me something, I reply. That's all and enough.

Then, when I think linux is a failure on desktops, I take a look at stupid
(they are based on frequency of browsers running with linux... so it is
not good numbers) statistics websites, and notice that even if the line is
very slow, it comes higher and higher. No matter the speed for me, the
important is not there.

My best way to advocate is to show an old computer to someone, and to say:
Tt is using the more recent version of distro and runs like a charm, so
I do not need to spend 500€ in a new computer.
And the best is that I have no maintenance on it, no viruses and alike.
I'm just a little sad that I can not use all recent games.


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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 28 février 2013 1:04, Mark Filipak a écrit :
 On 2013/2/27 6:31 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:

 Mark Filipak wrote:

 On 2013/2/27 11:18 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:


 Hasn't even run it, apprently, or at least wrote in an earlier
 message But I don't run Linux.

 Now that's it in a nutshell, isn't it.  Seems to me that Mark is
 simply a troll (certainly not a debian-user)


 I'm not a troll, Miles.

 -snip-


 Which brings us back to the question of: if not trolling, what is your
 purpose here?

 Miles Fidelman


 I'm trying to get help, Miles. I've been lurking. This didn't start out
 as my thread. I wish to advocate linux is not my aim. I merely made a
 comment about Linux advocacy and got jumped on. Whether you think I
 deserved to get jumped on or not, I got many messages in short order
 attacking me. I guess I did hit a nerve.

 You insist on pointing out that mentally challenged people can install
 Debian. That's wonderful (a bit insulting too, don't you think?). I have
 not had that experience. My experience has been: I make (or buy) CDs. I
 boot them. I begin the installation. I'm asked a hundred times whether I
 want to install this program or that program. But I'm not at all prepared
 to choose because I don't know anything about Linux or the programs, so I
 choose to install them all. Then when I try to boot my new Linux
 installation, I get an error message that such--such program is missing
 and boot is terminating with a kernel panic or a failure code. This has
 happened many times. When I asked about this in Linux forums, I got
 answers that only a Linux guru would understand.

 Let me give you an example of the kind of insensitivity (or myopic
 stupidity) that seems to be the hallmark of the Linux community. In the
 Debian live page, dd is offered as the way to copy the ISO file to a USB
 stick. But the dd program offered only runs in Linux! What good is that
 to someone who is running Windows at the time? It's like Linux is in it's
 own world.

 I thought I was at a forum in which people would like to advocate for
 Linux and therefore would do what's needed to assure successful
 conversion from Windows to Linux, but instead I experience the same
 elitism and condescension I'd experienced at other Linux forums.

 If you can't see that, then you are part of the problem. I give up. I
 apparently will never run Linux because I'm too stupid.

Stupid, maybe not, but maybe too straight in your searches.
First of all, if you do not have enough computer knowledge, maybe debian
is not for you.
It is reputed as a distribution for advanced user, after all.

Burning a CD is not a problem, and I bet that even my mother would be able
to do it (and, trust me, her knowledge in the computer domain is very
low).
Take a look at that search:
http://www.google.fr/#output=searchq=windows+burning+isooq=windows+burning+iso

For USB, IIRC I have found quite quickly linux usb live creator. It is a
windows software, with an interface which could be used by anyone who
knows what is a file, an USB stick and... that's all.
Otherwise, following the documentation
(http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en)
especially this section: 4.3.3. Manually copying files to the USB stick —
the flexible way  is doable also for a windows user.
In fact, for a non linux user, it is the easier way, since all commands
are portable:
_ partition is already FAT if you use windows, so no need to mkdosfs
_ syslinux is a portable tool
_ notepad exists to create a text file
_ and windows users are able to copy files on an usb stick quite easily
The only knowledge needed here is to be able to use a commandline, and
download syslinux. It is not for people who do not want to search
themselves, because of commandline, but it is not over complicated.

About your booting problem, the only moment I have kernel panics are when
I am trying to use a kernel I compiled myself, and my first attempts to
use Debian are 10 years old...
When I remember that installer (woody) I can really say you: now, Debian
is really easy to install for a windows user. Simply do an automated
installation, and most of stuff will be done for you.
But the only distros I have tried to install myself are Debian, Ubuntu,
backtrack, archlinux and gentoo.



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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

 what? That's absurd. The only people I know who have their OS installed
 at a shop are Apple users.

Sounds like an ideal country. In France, even if it is illegal, all
computers have an installed OS on them. And guess which one?

 Look, I asked for help. Then things got out of hand. Some Linux people
 seem to have a bad attitude.

Analyze yourself, please.


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Re: I wish to advocate linux

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 27 février 2013 1:05, Shane Johnson a écrit :
 There is also another perspective here, Google and Mozilla are providing
 a option for those that don't want to bother with loading, installing, and
  maintaining an OS.  Chromebooks and the like might make all OS's for the
 enthusiast.

 Shane

I will trust that an OS without need of maintenance can exists when I'll
see it.

Just remember that simply adding softwares *is* a maintenance task. When
you add softwares, you have to manage if they can start themselves with
your session's start, you have to manage the space they use (or will
Google give you thousands of TB for nothing? I do not think so...) et
cetera.

Those systems will still need to boot, and load, too. They are simply 2
other systems, nothing more, nothing less.


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Re: Flash and Firefox on Squeeze

[Morel Bérenger]

 This has worked in the past, but none of these links has made any
 difference.  I shut down Firefox and restarted it after making each of the
 above links.  Still no Flash.  One site that I looked at said to make the
 file executable.  Okay.  I did that.  Still nothing.

I might be wrong since I do not use firefox/iceweasel, but have you tried
to manage plug-ins through the Firefox's interface?
I think I have recently read that they will now need explicit activation
for plug-ins. It that's true, only installing one system-wide is useless,
you need to say to firefox that it have to use the plug-in.


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Re: Rmore details on network was Setting up a network Was: Re: a very carefully asked question?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 27 février 2013 15:01, Karen Lewellen a écrit :
 To keep it basic, since the idea of debian finding the card even if
 not connected might make sense,  I take it that will be the best first
 step? second, can someone send me the command one might use to learn if
 ice Wiesel is included on the drive?

To install iceweasel, you have at least 3 options, which both need root
access (use su to become root or sudo to run a single command as
root):
_ running $apt-get install iceweasel
_ running $aptitude install iceweasel
_ using aptitude's ncurses interface (allows interactions, my favorite way)

For your network card, if you have no network management daemons
(networkmanager, by example. I do not know if there are other, but I think
yes.), you can configure the file /etc/network/interfaces.

Here is mine (without wireless):
 # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
 # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

 # The loopback network interface
 auto lo
 iface lo inet loopback

 # The primary network interface
 allow-hotplug eth0
 iface eth0 inet dhcp

You should have the same, but maybe if debian was installed without
network, the 2 eth0 lines might be absent. If so, add them.
Then, to start network for your session: ifup eth0
Other sessions should not need such command, this will be automatic.


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Re: Thinking about using Debian

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 26 février 2013 0:35, Mark Filipak a écrit :
 Are you a fan of Shakespeare tragedies? I think Linux is a good subject.
 It's so hard to comment constructively without seeming to bitch. It's a
 tragedy.

I would more say that everything humankind do is a good subject ;)

 I'm an electronics engineer technoweenie with over 3 decades of
 experience with such a wide range of
 mainframes/minicomputers/microcomputers it would make your head spin. If
 ever there was a customer for Linux, I would be it.

Nice. I'm an humble programmer, with a very low grade, and the only thing
I could say about my knowledge is that I am self-learning for 11 years.
Does it means I should be impressed by people with more experience? I do
not think so.
While people claim quickly about impressive wisdom and knowledge, they do
not show it very often.
That's not against you, but for my experience, I have seen many people
claiming having good knowledge in something, claiming they'll help, and
never act.
I has been one of them quite often :D

 and because it's free, complaints and/or suggestions
 seem like bitching and no one likes to listen to someone bitch.

Use Red-Hat, and you will see if free means gratuit (in French, we say
something is gratuit when you do not need to pay. I do not know the
English word for that. Free, libre is reserved to freedom, with the idea
of having rights behind).
Red-Hat is a company specialized in supporting linux users, so, if you
need to pay to feel good, ask them.
The nice stuff with open source softwares, is that you can pay someone to
contribute, too.

 I have a Dell Precision M90.
 ...
 If I invest
 months learning the care and feeding of Debian to the point where I can
 be comfortably secure with it and can advise others, will I be able to
 maintain that level next year when Debian is different?

Debian will not change from a year to another, stable long at least for 2
years, and then, they become old-stable, for 2 other years.
It means that there is support for 4 years per version.

For your drivers, the solution is quite easy: use a live CD, if your
hardware works like a charm, then the distro will do.
I bet that this will not be, since there are really few free wifi
firmware, so we often need to install a non-free package.
If you use flash player, you will have the same need. Those exceptions,
plus opera as a browser, are currently the only non-free packages on my
computers (I currently have 3: an old computer (+10 years), an eeepc
(1015pem) and a poor desktop, assembled by myself with cheap hardware
(I'll upgrade when I'll need and have money for that) and all of them
works perfectly.)

 I could just try it and see, but that could eat a lot of my time and I
 don't have the time to waste.

If you have no time to waste, then, stay with windows XP, but remember:
it's support will stop in few months. And more and more softwares will not
be compatible with it... that is, in microsoft's world. I bet most of
tools I am using will work there for at least few more years :D

 What's Debian going to be like? It's an OS with no GUI-cops at all. No
 one wants to do anything standard ...

FreeDesktop.org should show you that maybe, finally, you does not know the
whole situation.
For other parts of the system, there is also LSB. Both of those
organizations provides guidelines. I do not know for LSB, but for FDo,
major desktops follows them. In fact, they do them.

 it's boring and you can't bore
 volunteer programers and keep them as volunteers. Look at Firefox and
 Thunderbird. They're getting harder and harder to use by the day. Why?
 Because no one is enforcing interface standards. But you can't say
 anything without someone else throwing What do you want for free? in
 your face.

Really? As a programmer, my first objective is that my softwares will be
used. Even when I am writing autorealm3, I will not say contribute or
shut-up. Well, I could anyway say that a special feature is too
hard/complex/low priority to implement it, and that user's contributions
are greatly appreciated.
But is it the same as saying What do you want for free? ? I do not think
so.

 Also, my experience with Firebox and Thunderbird may advise against
 Debian.

So, You see that google's browser send your informations to google, so,
you deduce that microsoft windows entirely do that, too. I see.
You are comparing Mozilla and Debian, 2 distinct organizations, like they
were the same. They are not.

 That's why I'm lurking the Debian list ...to see what people's attitudes
 are. To see whether the developers are accessible.

It's debian-user, here, not debian-developer...

 I tried to get involved fixing the PAM authorization stack architecture
 for my server. I got absolutely nowhere because the developers of PAM
 didn't want to talk with anyone who wasn't willing to write and compile
 code. Will Debian be any different?

Debian is composed by humans, I guess. Some might act in a way, other in a
different one.
I guess Debian do 

Re: apt-pining: no priority (or zero) specified for pining

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Dim 24 février 2013 18:49, Tom H a écrit :
 On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Morel Bérenger
 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:

 Le Ven 22 février 2013 2:58, Tom H a écrit :

 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 09:02:12PM +0100,
 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:


 Package: *
 Pin: release a=wheezy
 Pin-Priority: 900
 Package: *
 Pin: release a=unstable
 Pin-Priority:200


 You are missing a space before '200'.  I'm not sure if that's the
 problem or not, but you should fix it and try it out.

 It should also be n=wheezy or a=testing and not a=wheezy.


 Arg! PEBCAK!


 I apologize...


 It was due to a typo in my file (Pin-Prioriy), which was not reported
 in my mail because since it was on a different computer, I rewrite the
 lines, and instinctively corrected it.

 So, the text saying that there was no priority set was referring the
 fact that the line Pin-PrioriTy was not found.

 Fixing or not the errors you pointed did nothing, but I'll keep them
 fixed for beauty.

 Again, I apologize to have make you loose your time with wrong
 informations and stupid mistake from me.

 No problem!


 I'm surprised that a= and n= can be used interchangeably but if
 you say so, OK! :)

Not sure, I have not tried an update, but without it, it worked (or I
noticed no problem).
I have no idea about how preferences works, but since for aptitude or apt,
testing and wheezy are the same thing (just links to the same contents),
maybe the preferences' system is able to handle them equally?



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Re: Cost of packages in disk space?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Dim 24 février 2013 23:02, Alois Mahdal a écrit :
 Hello,


 I know that due to numerous dependencies and relations, it is
 a complicated question how much disk space a package costs:

 *   Do we want to count dependencies?  How deep (we don't want
 to count libc* 1 times, do we)?

 *   Do we want to separately address
 *   `purge`able ~/.app-data?
 *   /etc/app/settings?
 *   /var/logs/app?


 *   Or are we looking for more sophisticated advice like hey,
 do you know that libhuge is required only by this hardlyeverused-app?
 (think about upgrade costs, dude!)


 However, are there tools that attempt to provide this kind of
 help?  Or at least answer the partial questions?  Or can apt*/dpkg do this?


 Typical use case is when one is running out of disk space
 on / or /usr/.  Such tool could be applied in much wider sense, though.

 Suggestions?


 Thanks,
 aL.

 --
 Alois Mahdal

Using aptitude with it's gui will give you those data.
To be exact, at the confirmation step, you can see:
_ total amount of data to download
_ total amount of space which will be added/removed
_ amount of data to download per package
_ amount of data which will be freed/used per package

Since the gui is able to do that, I guess the cli will have some option
too, but I only rarely use cli, except with dpkg :)


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Re: debian wheezy amd64 freeze

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 25 février 2013 10:55, Alfredo Alessandrini a écrit :
 Hi,


 I've installed the debian wheezy amd64 on a notebook ASUS (Asus
 n56vz-s4196h).

 The installation went fine, but I got a crash (after a few minutes of
 usel). Graphics card and mouse was blocked.

 ...
 Where can I find more logs to found the reason of the crash?

No idea for your logs, but I bet the problem come from your GPU drivers or
Xorg.
It sounds like this computer uses a NVidia GPU, so I guess your driver is
currently nouveau. Do you still have the crash if you use NVidia's
drivers? (it is in non-free)

Also, to solve this problem, I think you will be more comfortable to work
without GUI, in text-mode. This will avoid Xorg to freeze your computer
when you are working.


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RE: Open new session with same user (in GDM)

[Morel Bérenger]

 It would generalize the
 principle, but it's a bit like multiple inheritance in C++ vs. single
 inheritance plus multiple interfaces in Java.  Multiple is nice, but it
 really is a can of worms, which Java tries to sidestep.  Mostly, people
 are just going to say that you can get what you want with Remote Desktops
 and/or X-though-ssh-type things.  Which is why this rambling wreck of a
 tangential digression is mostly just crazy talk.

For inheritance, the problem is not at the first level, but when there are
more: diamond inheritance means that resources could be duplicated,
creating strange behavior if the programmer did not made the inheritance
virtual.
On the other hand, this can often be avoided, and when you speak about
Java, just remember that this language does not even have unsigned types
:)
I am not sure it was designed to be simple to use, sometimes I think it
was designed to be easier to design (not sure you understand what I mean).
Then, it have added more and more powerful mechanisms, but some of them
are still pretty basic against implementations of other languages (I am
thinking about generics).
Anyway, if you are careful, there are no reason to make things buggy
because of multiple inheritance.
On the other hand, it can often be avoided, and I still had no occasion to
use those techniques (but I still consider I lack experience in OO
conception). So, a language used for common needs have no real interest in
implementing that.

For DEs, the problem is quite different, I think: you will have multiple
DEs using same files. And, nowadays, DEs want to detect everything
instantly, so they need frequent, if not constant, access to their files.
It is more near multi-threading that multi-inheritance, and nowadays
people do multi-threaded quite often.
Maybe problem is that DEs are often older than the arrival of
multi-threading on public computers, and so were not designed with those
possibilities in mind?

But, well, that OT, for sure, and could start undesired war (especially
the part on languages...) so I'll stop it now :)

 Something ought to be possible and done, but really, why bother?  There
no real demand for it.

Commercial guys often create the need for something which no-one needs,
and then people become so used to that new need that it become vital.
Think about television, it is a great example.

 While the gnome session seemed to run OK, the actual *application*
 I wanted to run didn't.


 Drats.  Well, having worked through all this may have taught us
 something, at least.

Back in thread \o/

I do not want to troll, but, maybe it is because those applications are
deficient? I mean, they should be able to take their input configuration
from a file given by the user, in my humble opinion.

Thinking about that... since that need is close to unix philosophy, you
could try to use tools which claims to respect it.
But it is not really fashion nowadays to follow a philosophy which makes
you in needs to know which tool to use for which task, so there are not so
many applications following that scheme.
(It is also harder to create, because programmers have to restrain
themselves to add cool features ;) )

For graphical browsers, I only know uzbl, maybe it could fit your needs?
Of course, you can not compare it to chrome, firefox or IE, and it is
still a little experimental, but I often use it happily, and except on
some crappy websites like hotmail, it just works.
For other applications... I do not know, my preferred softwares are text
editors, compilers and lightweight browsers (with opera as fallback
,because I still does not master uzbl :/ )


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Re: apt-pining: no priority (or zero) specified for pining

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 22 février 2013 2:58, Tom H a écrit :
 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:

 On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 09:02:12PM +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
 wrote:


 Well, the error message in title is not the exact one, but a
 translation of the one I have (which is exactly W : Aucune priorité
 (ou zéro) n'a été spécifiée pour l'épinglage but it is in french
 so...).

 The consequence is that it seems my preferences is not used, testing
 packages have lower priority that unstable, which is not what I want.

 My sources.list include a line for wheezy main non-free, another
 for unstable main and the last for experimental main (my need was
 to add g++4.8, in the hope it include
 std::set::emplace_hint(iterator, ...)).
 Here is the sources.list:
 ===
 deb http://ftp2.fr.debian.org/debian wheezy main non-free deb
 http://ftp2.fr.debian.org/debian unstable main
 deb http://ftp2.fr.debian.org/debian experimental main
 ===


 My preferences file contain this:
 ===
 Package: *
 Pin: release a=wheezy
 Pin-Priority: 900


 Package: *
 Pin: release a=unstable
 Pin-Priority:200
 ===


 You are missing a space before '200'.  I'm not sure if that's the
 problem or not, but you should fix it and try it out.

 It should also be n=wheezy or a=testing and not a=wheezy.

Arg! PEBCAK!
I apologize...
It was due to a typo in my file (Pin-Prioriy), which was not reported in
my mail because since it was on a different computer, I rewrite the lines,
and instinctively corrected it.
So, the text saying that there was no priority set was referring the fact
that the line Pin-PrioriTy was not found.

Fixing or not the errors you pointed did nothing, but I'll keep them fixed
for beauty.
Again, I apologize to have make you loose your time with wrong
informations and stupid mistake from me.


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Re: Open new session with same user (in GDM)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 21 février 2013 7:29, Alois Mahdal a écrit :
 On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:55:06 -0600
 Mark Allums m...@allums.com wrote:


 Le 21/02/2013 00:32, Mark Allums a écrit :

 From: Kent West [mailto:we...@acu.edu]
 On 02/20/2013 04:07 PM, Alois Mahdal wrote:

 Hello to all!


 How do I create two same-user sessions from GDM?


 Say I'm logged in in Xfce (which I normally use, therefore have
  many windows / apps open) and want to quickly report a bug.
 But
 before I do that, I want to check if the same happens in GNOME.

 xfswitch-plugin (User switching in Panel item menu), gets me
 to the GDM, but even if I choose my username and Gnome
 classic session, typing my password only brings me to the old
 Xfce4
 session (i.e. the session option in GDM is ignored).

 Thanks,
 aL.

 P.S.: While typing this, I realized that 90% of these cases can
  be solved by creating a new temporary user, which is way more
 correct way of bug reporting.

 Well, I have to correct myself here: it's not that super-correct
 since you are changing 2 factors between 2 tests; you might lead yourself
 (and poor unsuspecting developers) into fake conclusion
 it does not happen under gnome, while the it's really it does
 not happen under a newly created user.

 How about running two different DMs? Isn't that what that's for?
 Can't have competing DMs like KDM, GDM, and LightDM.  But why
 shouldn't LXDE and e17 run at the same time?

 Or Xfce4 and Xfce4 and Gnome and Xfce4?  (I assume you mean DEs, not
 DMs.  Or we might as well want to run 2 inits! :D)



 If no competing sessions can exist, then that goes against the spirit
 of Unix.

 Exactly that's what I had in mind.


 While I understand that the demand might not be very strong, I do
 not really see why multiple sessions could not exist.  You can have as many
 bashes/zshes/kshes/ashes/cshes as you want, and they don't start shooting
 each other in their feet.  OK, there's none to very little overlapping in
 their spaces, but principle is the same.  Why the hell would Gnome touch
 Xfce4's files?


 What about having one local session and one controlled from a remote
 box?  What's the principal difference between sshd and *dm?


 Would starting a second X session do any good at all, as Kent
 suggested?  There would still be only one DBus?

 Yep, that brought up gnome-session with no complaints. (I actually
 even omitted the -- :2 part.)  Not via GDM, but that was not really a
 requirement, it was rather that I was expecting GDM would support that.
 Somehow.


 ~


 But finally, the benefit was even smaller than as I commented in OP.


 While the gnome session seemed to run OK, the actual *application*
 I wanted to run didn't.  Well, this makes sense in many apps like
 MUA or web browser and it is often possible to address by telling
 the app to use other profile/dotfileset.  But we are just getting to the
 point when simply creating user foo is easier.

 Thanks all!
 aL.

 --
 Alois Mahdal

There might be another solution, in fact, still with the startx command.
That solution is a little dirty, but hey, the problem comes from the
softwares which does not support multi-instances.
So, here it is:
The sessions are stored somewhere in $HOME. So, if before running startx,
you change the $HOME value (by example: $export
HOME=$HOME/second_session) you should be ok.
Of course, the new session will know nothing about the first one, and the
first one will know nothing about the second, and, if you are unlucky and
use softwares who loves databases, you will not be able to use diff to
merge the data.

But, thinking about it, the problem is the same with terminal-emulators:
run 2 terminal emulators, do some commands in both of them, close them,
and open a new one. You will not have merged history.
On terminals, consequences are less important than for an entire DE, of
course.

It is anyway possible to workaround that synchronization problem for nice
applications which are able to support multiple instances, by using links.
By example, if you have some games, you can link the saved games folder,
so the folders $HOME/.data/mygame and $HOME/second_session/.data/mygame
will be the same.


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Re: Is there is any wifi firmware in main?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 20 février 2013 1:33, agroconsultor0 a écrit :
 On 02/19/2013 11:00 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:

 So you'll probably have to live with
 non-free firmware, either shipped on the device itself or in some
 firmware-* package in non-free.

To be honest, this is what I was expecting, but I thought that asking to
the list could have give a solution.
Since it is not an emergency, I will hope for some positive reply a few
more time... who knows ? :)

 I have one rtl-8187L, which just works, and there were usb/pci,  I
 really do not know how it do it.

 Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0bda:8187 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8187
 Wireless Adapter

Hum, it sounds like you have some non-free package installed to support
it: http://lists.debian.org/debian-laptop/2012/04/msg00021.html



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Is there is any wifi firmware in main?

[Morel Bérenger]

Hello.

I am thinking about buying a new laptop, and I wonder if there is any wifi
firmware available in main?


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Re: compress files

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 19 février 2013 15:24, tsit...@linuxmail.org a écrit :
 hello fellas. i was looking for a way to compress files (.wav) older than
 30 days.
 i created a small script to do the job. #!/bin.bash


 FILES=`find . -mtime -30 | xargs`
 tar --no-recursion -czf backup_ *feb*_2013.tgz ${FILES} rm -rf ${FILES}
  the compressed files have the following format g303-
 *20130205*-060552-1360037152.419.wav
 i am stuck on how to edit the script so it will automatically create the
 month of the backup. Now the naming is manual. any suggestions please?


=
MONTH=`date +%B`
echo $MONTH
=
This gives the whole month's name. Use %b to have an abbreviated one
(here, i have février for first, and févr. for second. As it is
localized, I have no clue about what you will have).

the `...` is used to execute the content instead of simply using it as a
string.
Note, that this notation is the /bin/sh 's one, it works with bash, and
*should* be relatively portable. Unlike the new one (which I do not
remember anyway).


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Re: compress files

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 19 février 2013 15:37, Darac Marjal a écrit :
 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 09:24:23AM -0500, tsit...@linuxmail.org wrote:

 Fellas and Dames, if you please.

 [cut]

 man date


I must admit, I prefer having dates with Dames than with Fellas :D


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Re: [1/2OT] bcm4331

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 18 février 2013 15:08, lina a écrit :
 Hi,


 A quick question, does the latest kernel support the bcm4331 wireless
 card? or does it still need compat-wireless and etc.

 Thanks with best regards,

I am not sure about what you are calling compat-wireless. My netbook have
a wl card from that family, and run perfectly with current stable (last
time I ran stable is at least 1 year ago, thought).
The only issue is, that this firmware is in non-free.


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Re: [1/2OT] bcm4331

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 18 février 2013 15:23, lina a écrit :
 On Monday 18,February,2013 10:17 PM, Morel Bérenger wrote:

 Le Lun 18 février 2013 15:08, lina a écrit :

 Hi,



 A quick question, does the latest kernel support the bcm4331 wireless
  card? or does it still need compat-wireless and etc.

 Thanks with best regards,


 I am not sure about what you are calling compat-wireless. My netbook
 have a wl card from that family, and run perfectly with current stable
 (last
 time I ran stable is at least 1 year ago, thought). The only issue is,
 that this firmware is in non-free.



 The kernel I used is 3.3.5. which doesn't support the bcm4331.

Sorry, I've read bcm4313, and not bcm4331... So, my phrase about my card
working is completely out-thread.

But is not that card supported by this:
http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/firmware-brcm80211 ?
Description speaks about bcm43xx, so I guess your should works? Or is it
what you name a compat-wireless?

You can also check b43 (on the web) and I think there is another one, but
I can not remember the name.


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Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2013 #160

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 14 février 2013 9:07, David Dartnall a écrit :
 Please take me off your list.
 Regards
 David Dartnall



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I might be wrong, but, do you know that you can do that yourself?
Or, to be more accurate, that you will have to do so.

Look a small bit before my message, I have not removed the message which
is automatically appended to every message we receive from this mailing
list.
I should be interesting for you.


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Re: why my simple ? hasn't get answered?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 12 février 2013 10:59, Long Wind a écrit :
 I am really surprised to find so many help in such a short time.
 Thanks to all those who reply!

I'm more surprised to see help to a question with why my simple ? hasn't
get answered? as a title than by the quantity.

About quantity, people on that list are often fast to reply, when they
think they can provide useful answers. If not, they usually just do not
reply, to avoid noise (like this message, but the goal of this message is
to avoid future why my so simple question was not answered?).


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Re: Wake on lan with RTL8111/8168B

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 11 février 2013 9:27, assir...@nonada.if.usp.br a écrit :
 Hello,


 I have an ASUS P8Z77-M motherboard with an onboard RTL8111/8168B network
 card. I want to enable wake on lan for this card. Wake on lan itself is
 workg when I call

 wakeonlan mac address

 from another machine, but when I shutdown the computer, the system powers
  down and about 5 seconds later it powers up again without any sending of
  magic packets. The effective result is therefore a reboot and not the
 wished power down.

 I wonder if anyone had the same problem?

I think your problem is not related to the wake on lan, since you
correctly start the needed computer with WoL.
Your problem here is to shutdown, and not reboot.

So, how do you shut it down?


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Re: Wake on lan with RTL8111/8168B

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 11 février 2013 10:29, assir...@nonada.if.usp.br a écrit :
 Le Lun 11 février 2013 9:27, assir...@nonada.if.usp.br a écrit :

 Hello,



 I have an ASUS P8Z77-M motherboard with an onboard RTL8111/8168B
 network card. I want to enable wake on lan for this card. Wake on lan
 itself is workg when I call

 wakeonlan mac address

 from another machine, but when I shutdown the computer, the system
 powers down and about 5 seconds later it powers up again without any
 sending of magic packets. The effective result is therefore a reboot
 and not the wished power down.

 I wonder if anyone had the same problem?


 I think your problem is not related to the wake on lan, since you
 correctly start the needed computer with WoL. Your problem here is to
 shutdown, and not reboot.

 So, how do you shut it down?




 Sorry for not including this in the description. I tried the following
 ways to shut down.

 shutdown -h now shutdown -hP now poweroff telinit 0

 both from runlevel 2 and single. All of them gave the same results.

 Also, the problem must be related to WOL somehow, because it restarts
 only if it was turned on by WOL. If I turn it on by the power button, it
 shuts down normally.



And, how do you connect to that distant computer? SSH, I guess?
If I had the same problem, I would check that the correct profile
(environment variables, rights, such kind of things) related to poweroff
is loaded, since I think ssh does not provide all environment variables to
connected users.


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Re: XFCE application shortcuts

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 11 février 2013 13:02, Lucio Crusca a écrit :
 Hello  *,


 I'm trying to bind a keyboard shortcut to control sound volume. I've
 found this:


 http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16t=63591


 however when I open Settings  Keyboard  Application shortcuts and
 click Add +, the friendly GUI does not let me enter any shortcut. I'm
 able to enter the command 'amixer set Master 5%+', but above the command
 text field, beside the Shortcut text, there's nothing to click or
 anything suggesting a way to enter the shortcut, just gray dialog
 background. If I try confirming the command without a shortcut it
 obviously complains with a error dialog (though the fact it's complaining
 is only deducible because there's no ok button, only cancel under a
 recap of an empty shortcut and the command I entered).

 Maybe it's a bug, maybe it's so obvious how to enter the shortcut that I
 don't get it (I'm a programmer, things that are obvious for others are not
  always obvious for me...)

 Wheezy amd64 up-to-date.

If I remember correctly (I have used 4.8 and 4.10 until +/- 8 months ago),
things were pretty easy to understand, even for programmers as us.
I think you are facing a bug, here, since I do not remember any empty
message box.

Which version are you using? Do you have installed recommended packages,
or have you changed some configuration like theme? Can you select some
text in those empty boxes (because you do not see it does not mean it is
not here ;) )?



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Re: grub and gpt

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Lun 11 février 2013 17:09, dAgeCKo a écrit :


 Hello,


 Several (about 9) months ago, when I updated grub from squeeze to
 wheezy, it failed to boot my system (GPT, 2To) so I kept grub at the
 squeeze version (1.98+20100804).

 Now that wheezy is coming more and more stable, I want to know if there
 are any bad luck that the new grub (1.99-26) will also fail to boot my
 system, or is it totally safe fore me to update it ? Or maybe should I add
 other packages (like the grub-efi-amd64) ?

 Any hints about this ? I would like something sure if possible (mainly
 if some people had the same issue), because I would like to avoid to repair
 the boot loader for X reasons.

 Thanks.

The only problem I am aware with grub 2 is that it is messy to configure
by hand, but it worked out of the box last time I used it (I am now using
lilo, so..).

IIRC, when you install it, it does not remove the old one, and the system
first boot on old one, which just chain the boot on the new. So, if it
works, you can then remove the old one, and everything will be fine.


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Re: [OT] computer security (online) training

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 8 février 2013 8:24, lina a écrit :
 On Friday 08,February,2013 08:48 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:

 Sorry for taking advantage of the list a bit but as happens pretty
 often, this list is more likely to provide useful info on the subject.

 I want to begin some training in computer security... training I can
 do online... and hopefully a hands on approach.

 I'm already an old man at 66 but would like to learn enough to get
 some kind of job involving comp security.

 I don't really need a job so far as having an income, since I'm
 already retired from field construction boilermaker trade with a decent
 pension, but I have lots of interest in security and have found through
 my life that there is nothing like having a job in a field to really
 make you learn the ropes.

 Cutting to the chase... after googling around I see there are many
 many computer security training sites and companies.  I need a little
 guidance to paring them down with my main criteria being hands on
 training.

 I don't know much of this area, but you may try
 http://www.backtrack-linux.org/




 So, any advice on this would be most welcome.  Anyone who thinks it
 should go off list is welcome to email me: reader AT newsguy DOT com

In first years of my love for computer sciences, I was interested in all
fields, except spending thousands of € in hardware.

My favorite was, and still is, programming, but thanks to some websites, I
was able to acquire some (basic, I did not spent enough time) knowledge in
other areas like system penetration and software reverse engineering
(well... ok, it was more about removal of protections on demos :D ).

For pen-testing, I used to train myself on a website which was providing
various exercises (it is named newbiecontest, but is a French one).
Maybe you could find some in English...

A link I have found on my old (but still active, old as in memory) site
is http://w3challs.com/
It seems it provides an English interface, too, but I was not able to
force it.
I have not used it, so I can not guarantee you will find useful challenges
there, but it will probably send you on the good way to find interesting
contents.

Those websites are all about searching yourself how to go through the
securities they placed for you, so it is only learning by doing. Sometimes
they have some documents to explain basics, but those are basics.
Maybe with backtrack you could find interesting theoretic lessons, and so
you could use them on those sites.

I'm curious to look at other replies.


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Re: For Help!

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 8 février 2013 8:19, s. keeling a écrit :
 Aijun Xuan aijun_x...@yahoo.ca:

 ---485831647-466411508-1354984718=:50704
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


 Hello, Debian:


 First of all, I would like appreciate what Debian had offered to
 us! I would thank GUN very much!

 I am a new user. I just set up Debian in my desktop computer. I
 have a problem. I can use the internet browser in Gnom when I am in
 Debian's main page. But I can not browse any other pages like
 yahoo, google etc.

 I know I am aware of Linux very little. Please help me out if you
 have time!

 I suggest you spend time poring over the contents of wiki.debian.org.
 The answers you wish are all there.

Or at least give more explanations about your error. Saying I can not
browse other pages is like... well, imagine you know cars very well, and
some guy come and say: help me, my car does not work. What should I do?.
You could not help, because there are not enough informations for you,
except if you are a sorcerer with a magic crystal ball.


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Re: Download 3.1: Link is not responding

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Ven 8 février 2013 7:57, Zvi Vered a écrit :
 Hello,


 I have to download debian 3.1 for i386.
 So I went to:
 http://www.debian.org/releases/sarge/debian-installer/


 And clicked on: full CD sets / i386
 It seems that the link is not responding.


 Can you help ?


 Thanks,
 Zvika Vered

The link
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/3.1_r8/i386/iso-cd/debian-31r8-i386-businesscard.iso
perfectly works, even with the weird proxy I have here.



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Re: PulseAudio--is there a viable alternative?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mer 6 février 2013 1:12, Rob Owens a écrit :
 On Tue, Feb 05, 2013 at 09:50:09AM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:

 Those of you who don't use PA, how do you do network streaming?  That
 is my usecase for PA as it's handy to start a stream on my desktop and
 send it to the Myth box for playback through the amp.  I can do that
 from the laptop if I choose as well.  The trick is to use the Sid/Wheezy
 version of pavucontrol where individual application playback can be
 selected.  I find PA is useful for directing playback to my set of
 Logitech portable
 USB speakers and my laptop.


 I'll jump in with one more good use for pulseaudio:  It is needed for
 sound on LTSP thin clients.  Not important to everyone, I know, but it's
 important to me.

 In general, pulseaudio hasn't caused me any real problems.


 -Rob

If you are speaking about simply music, then, I simply use mpd, and
configure it to have a network output.
I simply think about mpd as an _interactive_ software following UNIX
philosophy: it have an stdin and an stdout, and only plays music from
playlists (but does it very well).  (I know that UNIX philosophy says that
input and output should be raw text and that it is not for mpd)

You can use any tool you want to drive the input, and you can redirect
it's output where you want, network included ;)

And no needs for pulseaudio.


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Re: Questions about multi-arch and 3rd party packages in Wheezy

[Morel Bérenger]

 and then tried to install icaclient with ' dpkg -i
 icaclient-12.1.0_i386.deb' since it is a third party package and not in
 the debian repositories.  Unfortunately, dpkg does not automatically
 handle dependancies, like agt-get and aptitude do, so I get a list of
 dependencies, all i386 libraries.  Is there any way to install such a
 package and get the dependant libraries installed other than manually
 installing each one?  I would rather have them installed and marked as
 automatically installed so that if a true 64 bit version becomes available
 and I remove the i386 version and install the AMD64 version then the i386
 libs that are no longer required would be removed.

 Marc

When I install something which is not in repositories (or in external
repo) I usually install it with dpkg, and then use aptitude in ncurse mode
to look and fix dependencies.

It allows me to control the exact behavior of the installation and avoided
me many problems. In fact, I use aptitude in ncurse mode near every-time I
am doing upgrades, I like the easy control it gives on
upgrades/installations/removal of packages.


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Re: PulseAudio--is there a viable alternative?

[Morel Bérenger]

 Pure ALSA works fine if you only need one sound at a time and don't
 need/want stuff like per source volume, and don't mind Flash sometimes
 messing up and blocking all access to the sound card.

I think you are speaking about OSS here, not about alsa.
Alsa is able to play more than one soud/music at a time without problem: I
can perfectly play wesnoth with sound+music and have mpd running
background. (of course, I usually disable wesnoth's music, but not it's
sounds)

OSS is deprecated, alsa is the current successor.


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Re: Gjjijjo

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 29 janvier 2013 9:35, Karl E. Jorgensen a écrit :
 Hi


 On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 09:08:08PM +, Claudia M Jimenez wrote:

 J.   Jhhjjjkjhghv.
 Ghjiojoy hbn
 Cbn
 Flynn
 Fmjvjfkfg
 Hkfjfkb
 Bhiujj
 Gallup
 Hlbnnnj ghjkkkjjkn
 Bkkhlnk
 Hkk kikuyu
 Xhllhkyku
 Hkkjjjuju
 Hkknnnjh
 Hmbkh
 Bmnnuhj
 Nmnmm
 Bm bbnhjj
 Bbnhjj
 Bmnbmj
 Fb mj
 Bbbmm
 Bmhnhnjjkjjjh
 Nnjjjhbnggtjg
 Bbnhjj jjj


 Wow. I found that you can get similar results with


 $ sudo apt-get install fortunes filters
 $ fortune | fold -w 10 | kenny


 Sent from my iPhone


 Whatever. Sent from mutt. Beat That!!


 --
 Karl E. Jorgensen

Well, maybe there are some samples from the Necronomicon, too. I have
always thought that iThings could be the result of some branches of
Cthulhu's cult, because black magic can be an interesting theory about how
they can sell hardware artificially limited by extremely closed software
environment at such a high price.


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Re: moving from Kubuntu 10.4 to squeeze

[Morel Bérenger]

 2. If you really, really what to prevent a package from being installed
 you have to configure your system accordingly. For example create a file
 /etc/apt/preferences.d/no-pulseaudio with following contents:

 Package: pulseaudio
 Pin: version *
 Pin-Priority: -1
 Explanation: prevent installation of pulseaudio


 Kind regards,
 Andrei

Hey, that trick is interesting, thanks for sharing the idea... I did not
thought about using preferences to black-list a package...
I will not use it for my own usage, since I only check carefully which new
packages are being installed by aptitude, but I'll keep it in mind, in
case I have to manage/setup computer which are not mine, some day.

About changelogs, since someone spoke about them (but it is OT from that
discussion, imho), using aptitude command to retrieve them is quite
useless, you usually only see changes in packaging, not in real software.
And there are no good evidence when an update is just a bugfix, a minor
release or a major one.
Except version numbers, of course, but this does not appear clearly to
users. (I wonder how hard it could be to hack aptitude to say it to change
color of the line depending on which part of version number changed...
maybe not so hard when softwares are using the classic versionning
scheme?)


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Re: no .info info on info (was Re: dselect fun)

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Dim 27 janvier 2013 17:02, wes davidson a écrit :
 hi morel.

 you wrote:
 Note: I did not read the info page of aptitude.


 i think perhaps there does not exist such a document for aptitude. if i am
 wrong about this, i would be grateful to learn where it can be obtained.

Hum... maybe not info by info command in fact (I have no way to try it for
now, and I'll have forgot when I'll be able, this evening ;) ).
I was speaking about the integrated aptitude help page, which is using
exactly same interface as info.
Since it uses the same interfaces, my mind merged those informations
without asking me! It should ask... :P

This interface is accessible when you run aptitude in ncurse mode, then, I
think you'll find your way.

 when i first read a unix man page twenty years ago, i had a rather similar
 reaction. it took me an embarrassingly long time to screw in the lightbulb
 and do 'man man'.  (perhaps i am a closet homophobe.)

Man was never something hard for me. I think it is because I discovered
less and immediately fall in love with that tool (I previously only known
the more tool from DOS, it explains my love I think).

 i am not sure which document you refer to, here.  info has a manpage,
 which is indeed not terribly helpful to the novice.  it is, after all, a
 manpage, and manpages are not intended to be helpful to novices.

The common problem with man, is when things come to non CLI interface: for
ncurses and X GUI, man does not sounds really efficient.

 but there exists a much more extensive document in .info format (namely
 info.info), geared toward the novice user, including a tutorial that i
 personally found very helpful.
Did not found it. Where is it?
I usually try to simply run the software alone to explore it's menus
and/or try common shortcuts like F1, CTRL+H, ? and alike.

 unfortunately, in debian, afaik until one installs texinfo-doc-nonfree
Oh, I'll check it out. Having doc for info could potentially help me a lot!

 ps: please do not mistake my unhealthy interest in the info system for
 some kind of pushy advocacy.  i merely seek (perhaps unsuccessfully) to
 clarify its accessibility.
No problem, and thanks for the tips.


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Re: MPD and Last.FM, not connecting or working.

[Morel Bérenger]

 though it is a bit hard - as diver
 dependencies of source packages should be satisfied before compiling

# aptitude build-dep mpd

This one is quite useful to avoid lack of dependencies when trying to
compile something which is already in Debian's repo.
Of course, if mainstream deps have changed, you will have some tinkering
to do, but I do not think it is highly probable, since there is no recent
major version change.


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Re: [1/2OT] the stat 'D'

[Morel Bérenger]

 I am new to the xargs, so I don't know how to let it run in background.
 The waiting is going to kill me, I mean so slow.


 Thanks ahead for your suggestions,

No idea about what is xargs, but I guess that simply calling your script
from a console with a '' at end of command will be ok, aka $myscript.sh



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Re: moving from Kubuntu 10.4 to squeeze

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Jeu 24 janvier 2013 16:05, Mike McGinn a écrit :
 I am happy with what I have experienced
 in my VM and I just want to know if there are any pitfalls I have not
 foreseen.

The only one I can see outside of system being configured differently by
default is the hardware support.
Using a live debian or a dual boot in first times to ensure everything is
still working correctly sounds wise.

Welcome to Debian :)


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Re: Customized Debian - Was: What are some common problems when using Debian GNU / LINUX?

[Morel Bérenger]

Le Mar 22 janvier 2013 22:47, John Hasler a écrit :
 Richard Owlett writes:

 I've used 026's, paper tape, acoustic couplers, magnetic drums.


 So have I.


 We oldsters are made of tough stuff


 True.


 P.S. I've just installed it ;)


 Well, there are people who claim to actually like it.  Don't say you
 weren't warned, though. --
 John Hasler

I must admit that I never played with so old stuff, but being less than 30
allows to have played with some funny cli tools. Do not underestimate
young people born in 80s ;)

Maybe dselect is faster than aptitude... sometimes aptitude's speed
bother me.


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