Re: Debian desktop environment

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, May 28, 2022, 11:08 AM Cindy Sue Causey 
wrote:

> On 5/28/22, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Brian wrote:
> >> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye
> :).
> >
> > Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> >> Bookworm?
> >> SID?
> >
> > In any case: Not Testing !
> >
> > Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
> > because of
> >   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268
>
>
> Yeehaw to that! About 3 mornings ago, I woke up to 71 emails
> containing the "marked for autoremoval" advisement. All appear to be
> tied to accessibility (A11Y). Have mercy, it's all the bigger chat
> topics: edbrowse, espeakup, fenrir, *orca*. I've NEVER seen that
> quantity before and especially not those packages, but that's likely
> just because of which lists I follow.
>

So *that* is what all those emails were about.

I had to use Bullseye as Testing for, over a month, due to the level of the
qemu package (as Buster's was lower than Mint).  I am *sure* glad I didn't
try that with Bookworm!  (Yes, I had a major issue with Mint 20 and won't
use Mint anymore).

>
> Cindy :)
> --
> Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
> * runs with birdseed *
>

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 5/28/22, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Brian wrote:
>> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
>
> Keith Bainbridge wrote:
>> Bookworm?
>> SID?
>
> In any case: Not Testing !
>
> Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
> because of
>   https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268


Yeehaw to that! About 3 mornings ago, I woke up to 71 emails
containing the "marked for autoremoval" advisement. All appear to be
tied to accessibility (A11Y). Have mercy, it's all the bigger chat
topics: edbrowse, espeakup, fenrir, *orca*. I've NEVER seen that
quantity before and especially not those packages, but that's likely
just because of which lists I follow.

Cindy :)
-- 
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA
* runs with birdseed *

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Brian wrote:
> > Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).

Keith Bainbridge wrote:
> Bookworm?
> SID?

In any case: Not Testing !

Currently a zillion of packages get marked for autoremovial from Testing
because of
  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1011268


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Keith Bainbridge]

On 24/5/22 23:23, Brian wrote:

Hi,

After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.

Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
  



Bookworm?

SID?

--
All the best

Keith Bainbridge

keithrbaugro...@gmail.com

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Hellow Махно ,

Махно  writes:

> Hello. Just use i3. It is a tiling window manager designed for X11,
> inspired by wmii and written in C.[5] It supports tiling, stacking,
> and tabbing layouts, which it handles dynamically. Configuration is
> achieved via plain text file and extending i3 is possible using its
> Unix domain socket and JSON based IPC interface from many programming
> languages. More info here:
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/i3

Wow thanks for reply and good guidance!

Unfortuantely, Chromebook does not offer X11. So i cannot try to
i3 with my Chromebook. However if i get other device, by chance, i will
try to i3, someday far later ^^^

And thanks again for kind reply ^^^

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Махно]

Hello. Just use i3. It is a tiling window manager designed for X11,
inspired by wmii and written in C.[5] It supports tiling, stacking,
and tabbing layouts, which it handles dynamically. Configuration is
achieved via plain text file and extending i3 is possible using its
Unix domain socket and JSON based IPC interface from many programming
languages. More info here:

https://wiki.debian.org/i3

2022-05-25, tr, 14:48 황병희  rašė:
>
> Hellow didier,
>
> didier gaumet  writes:
>
> > (... thanks ...)
> > In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled
> > Debian inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case
> > Debian runs in a Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your
> > screenshot seems to show a Chrome OS interface...
> >
> > (1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux
>
> Yes, you are right:
> 
>
> And i like Chromebook and Debian/Ubuntu ^^^
>
> Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee
>
> --
> ^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//
>

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Hellow didier,

didier gaumet  writes:

> (... thanks ...)
> In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled
> Debian inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case
> Debian runs in a Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your
> screenshot seems to show a Chrome OS interface...
>
> (1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux

Yes, you are right:


And i like Chromebook and Debian/Ubuntu ^^^

Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[didier gaumet]

Le mercredi 25 mai 2022 à 08:50:05 UTC+2, 황병희 a écrit :
> Antonino Saetta  writes: 
> 
> > (... thanks ...)
> > I thought that Debian is GNOME by default... 
> > 
> > Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?
> Hellow, i am beginner with Debian. I install Debian 11 Bullseye on 
> Chromebook. But there is no Gnome desktop. I just launch each Linux app 
> such as Emacs, Gimp, etc., when i need it. 
> 
> You see my screenshot: 
> 
>  
> 
> Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee 
> 
> -- 
> ^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Hello,

In fact you did not install Debian on your Chromebook but you enabled  Debian 
inside Chrome OS on your Chromebook(1), right?  In this case Debian runs in a 
Chrome OS container not on the hardware? Your screenshot seems to show a Chrome 
OS interface...

(1) https://chromeos.dev/en/linux

Re: Debian desktop environment

[황병희]

Antonino Saetta  writes:

> (... thanks ...)
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...
>
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

Hellow, i am beginner with Debian. I install Debian 11 Bullseye on
Chromebook. But there is no Gnome desktop. I just launch each Linux app
such as Emacs, Gimp, etc., when i need it.

You see my screenshot:


Sincerely, Linux fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 24 May 2022 13:27:29 +0200
Antonino Saetta  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

To give you a choice of which desktop or desktops to install, or no GUI
at all. With Linux you can install and run multiple desktops, if you
want to.

> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It is, but you don't have to use/install it if you don't want to.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

XFCE, LXDE, LXQt are all considered "light" desktops. Running only a
window manager (I use Openbox. There are many others.) is even lighter.

B

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 02:23:46PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>   apt install task-xfce-desktop
>   apt unstall take-gnome-desktop
>   apt unstall xfce4
>   etc

Freudian typos.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Brian]

On Tue 24 May 2022 at 13:27:29 +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.

Careful! If you go on like this you will end up installing bullseye :).
 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

It needn't be GNOME, but it has been for quite some time.
 
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

Lightest? In terms of disk space used?

  apt install task-xfce-desktop
  apt unstall take-gnome-desktop
  apt unstall xfce4
  etc

Lool at the additional disk space to be used.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Peter Ehlert]

On 5/24/22 05:20, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:

So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

uncheck that box, select any other Desktop you want, or None.

by trial and error I believe it is actually Gnome, the new super 
dumbed-down version.


I much prefer Mate



I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

*sigh* It's complicated.

See, there's more than one Debian installer program, and there's more
than one IMAGE which uses the Debian installer as its core.

The "Debian desktop environment" setting is designed to choose whichever
desktop the DESIGNER OF YOUR INSTALLATION IMAGE decided should be the
default.

If you're using the official Debian netinst or DVD-1 installer image,
the default choice is GNOME.

If you're using a Debian "Live" image, the default choice is potentially
something other than GNOME.  It'll usually say in the image's filename.

If you're using something other than pure Debian, the default could be
anything at all.


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

I really liked tomas's answer to this.  The way you're asking this
question means you've already fallen into the trap of thinking that
it's normal and expected to install a full-blown Desktop Environment
and that you're supposed to choose one of them.

A lot of us (myself included) don't use ANY of those.  We just use a
traditional window manager, of which there are a few dozen.

If you UNSELECT all of the desktop options (including the stupid
"Debian desktop environment" choice that picks one for you)

I agree, the Stupid default is super annoying.

I believe that the "Debian desktop environment"is actually Gnome 
(Gnome3) and it really sucks.

===

BTW: The Debian Installer is the best I have ever found, with only Two 
exceptions... That default crap selection, and auto selecting all swap 
partitions on the entire system for Formatting.


end of rant



, you get
an installation which has only the Standard packages, and no graphical
environment yet.

At that point, if you know which window manager you want to use, you
can do this:

1) Check for missing firmware and video drivers.  You're already booting
to a text console, so you've bypassed the "I can't boot because
the Display Manager locks up because of missing firmware" trap.
Now you get to resolve that peacefully, without a DM trying to take
over the display at boot time.

2) sudo apt-get install xorg your-favorite-wm your-favorite-terminal 

3) startx

If startx works, then you can continue booting to a text console and using
startx to launch the GUI each time.  Or you can select a Display Manager
package and install that, if you want a GUI login.  It's up to you.

Or, of course, you're free to use a Desktop Environment if that's what
you prefer.  That's the thing about Debian: it lets you choose.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Peter Ehlert]

On 5/24/22 04:53, Jeremy Ardley wrote:


On 24/5/22 7:27 pm, Antonino Saetta wrote:


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?



I use Mate.  It's closest to the old gnome so no fancy crap


I am with you on that.


BTW: the mate-desktop-environment-extras is a Great enhancement
MATE Desktop Environment (extra components, metapackage)


Jeremy

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

*sigh* It's complicated.

See, there's more than one Debian installer program, and there's more
than one IMAGE which uses the Debian installer as its core.

The "Debian desktop environment" setting is designed to choose whichever
desktop the DESIGNER OF YOUR INSTALLATION IMAGE decided should be the
default.

If you're using the official Debian netinst or DVD-1 installer image,
the default choice is GNOME.

If you're using a Debian "Live" image, the default choice is potentially
something other than GNOME.  It'll usually say in the image's filename.

If you're using something other than pure Debian, the default could be
anything at all.

> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

I really liked tomas's answer to this.  The way you're asking this
question means you've already fallen into the trap of thinking that
it's normal and expected to install a full-blown Desktop Environment
and that you're supposed to choose one of them.

A lot of us (myself included) don't use ANY of those.  We just use a
traditional window manager, of which there are a few dozen.

If you UNSELECT all of the desktop options (including the stupid
"Debian desktop environment" choice that picks one for you), you get
an installation which has only the Standard packages, and no graphical
environment yet.

At that point, if you know which window manager you want to use, you
can do this:

1) Check for missing firmware and video drivers.  You're already booting
   to a text console, so you've bypassed the "I can't boot because
   the Display Manager locks up because of missing firmware" trap.
   Now you get to resolve that peacefully, without a DM trying to take
   over the display at boot time.

2) sudo apt-get install xorg your-favorite-wm your-favorite-terminal 

3) startx

If startx works, then you can continue booting to a text console and using
startx to launch the GUI each time.  Or you can select a Display Manager
package and install that, if you want a GUI login.  It's up to you.

Or, of course, you're free to use a Desktop Environment if that's what
you prefer.  That's the thing about Debian: it lets you choose.

Re: Debian desktop environment

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 24/5/22 7:27 pm, Antonino Saetta wrote:


Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?



I use Mate.  It's closest to the old gnome so no fancy crap

Jeremy



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Re: Debian desktop environment

[tomas]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 01:27:29PM +0200, Antonino Saetta wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.
> 
> Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.
> 
> So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
> environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?
> 
> I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...
> 
> Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

The lightest desktop is no desktop :-)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Debian desktop environment

[Antonino Saetta]

Hi,

After my surrender to Jessie I've thought of moving on with Stretch.

Currently I've installed it through the net, no problems at all.

So I was wondering, why am I asked to choose (or not) a GNOME desktop
environment, other than *Debian desktop environment*?

I thought that Debian is GNOME by default...

Also, what's the lightest desktop? Default, XFCE or LXDE...?

Thank you :)

PS. Here's a picture of what I mean:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/444531/how-to-install-debian-without-games-office-etc

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Linux-Fan]

Brian writes:


On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 17:02:01 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 04:04:17PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 13:43:29 +, Tixy wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 07:47 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:


[...]


> > > > > With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
> > > >
> > > > And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.
> > >
> > > Guessing here... because a live version already has a desktop
> > > environment on the disk, so it make sense to default to installing that
> > > one. E.g. if you choose, say, the XFCE live iso, it would default to
> > > XFCE not Gnome. Would be a bit perverse otherwise.


AFAICT it does not only "default" to the DE contained within the live system  
but rather does not even show the choice screen because it installs by  
copying/extracting the live system's data and hence, the DE (and other  
software choices) are already set. See below.



> > I rather thought the Live images contained a copy of d-i but am not
> > going to download an ISO to refresh my menory. I will offer
> >
> >   https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live- 
> >   manual/customizing-installer.en.html

> >
> > I'd see it as a bit unusual for this copy to differ from the regular d-i.



> A few things:


[...]


> 3. The live CDs are designed so that you download the one with the desktop
> you want. The "standard" one installs a minimum Debian with standard  
> packages and no gui.


OK, but the relevance to the OP's issue is obscure. Does it need to
taken into account for the issue raised?


TL;DR: Live Installers do not present the DE selection screen hence it  
should not relate to the OP.



> 4. Live CD install is not guaranteed to be the same as the traditional
> Debian installer. Calamares is very significantly different. Live CD/DVD is
> maintained by a different libe CD team and not by the Debian media team.

Ah! Calamares. It alters the way tasksel behaves in d-i? Heaven help us!
Is that is what is meant when it is claimed  by Greg Wooledg:

 With the "Live" installers, the default is different"?

Calamares introduces a new ball game?


[...]

Let me try to clarify this a little bit from my experience as an "advanced"  
user :)


Calamares is an entirely separate installer that can be invoked from within  
a running (live) system. It is _one_ way to install Debian from a live  
system but it is not the only one. It is worth stressing that there is _no_  
interaction between Calamares and d-i and that they prsent different  
screens. Behind the scenes, Calamares invokes an `rsync` to copy the data  
from within the live system to the target.


For a typical session in Calamares, see [1] for an example from Debian Buster.

Now d-i is separate in that it does not run from within the live system but  
has to be invoked _instead_ of the respective live system from the boot  
menu. It is, however, contained on the same ISO image/DVD together with the  
live system's data. The d-i variant used on live systems does not ask for  
the choice of DE because its software selection cannot be customized like in  
the regular d-i. Instead, it simply copies the data from the live file  
system to the targed drive (? I am not exactly sure on this one ?). See [2]  
for an example from Debian Buster and note the absence of the tasksel  
screen.


Now the regular d-i shows the tasksel screen and asks for which DE to  
install. See [3] for an example from the Debian Bullseye Alpha 3 installer.


Here are some "real screenshots" :)

[1] 
https://masysma.lima-city.de/37/debian_i386_installation_reports_att/m2-dl1080-i386-lxde-calamares.xhtml

[2] 
https://masysma.lima-city.de/37/debian_i386_installation_reports_att/m2-dl1080-i386-lxde-di.xhtml

[3] 
https://masysma.lima-city.de/37/debian_i386_installation_reports_att/m6-d11a3-i386-netinst.xhtml

HTH
Linux-Fan

öö


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Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 17:02:01 +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 04:04:17PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 13:43:29 +, Tixy wrote:
> > 
> > > On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 07:47 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon 
> > > > > > installation?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
> > > > > unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task 
> > > > > happens
> > > > > to be GNOME.
> > > > > 
> > > > > With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.
> > > 
> > > Guessing here... because a live version already has a desktop
> > > environment on the disk, so it make sense to default to installing that
> > > one. E.g. if you choose, say, the XFCE live iso, it would default to
> > > XFCE not Gnome. Would be a bit perverse otherwise.
> > 
> > I rather thought the Live images contained a copy of d-i but am not
> > going to download an ISO to refresh my menory. I will offer
> > 
> >   
> > https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live-manual/customizing-installer.en.html
> > 
> > I'd see it as a bit unusual for this copy to differ from the regular d-i.
> > 
> 
> A few things: 
> 
> 1. GNOME is only the default on AMD64 / i386 - on some of the ARM variants,
> it's still XFCE, I think.

Fine, but this is not, IMHO, the OP's concern. He is using amd64/i386.
Nevertheless, it is something to be aware of.

> 2. XFCE _was_ the default for a one CD install until Buster - it's now
> too big for one CD so there is no longer a CD which will install as 
> single desktop by default.

Correct, but I do not think we are into CD vs DVD in the OP's issue.
This is something to discard from our thinking.
 
> 3. The live CDs are designed so that you download the one with the desktop
> you want. The "standard" one installs a minimum Debian with standard packages
> and no gui.

OK, but the relevance to the OP's issue is obscure. Does it need to
taken into account for the issue raised?

> 4. Live CD install is not guaranteed to be the same as the traditional
> Debian installer. Calamares is very significantly different. Live CD/DVD is 
> maintained by a different libe CD team and not by the Debian media team.

Ah! Calamares. It alters the way tasksel behaves in d-i? Heaven help us!
Is that is what is meant when it is claimed  by Greg Wooledg:

 With the "Live" installers, the default is different"?

Calamares introduces a new ball game?

Alejandro Colomar's observations are quite clear and reprducible. It
would be expected he would be along later to expand on them.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[David Wright]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 07:43:22 (-0700), Peter Ehlert wrote:
> On 11/5/21 4:50 AM, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:
> > 
> > I did some test by installing 2 identical virtualbox instances
> > (EFI turned on) with the same netinst image
> > .
> > 
> > I typically use XFCE, so I wanted to test if leaving "Debian
> > desktop environment" marked would affect or not my XFCE
> > installation.
> > 
> > It does.
> > 
> > a)
> > | [ ]  Debian desktop environment
> > | [*]    XFCE
> > 
> > b)
> > | [*]  Debian desktop environment
> > | [*]    XFCE
> > 
> > Using (b), I end up with 12 more installed packages.  I checked
> > that there weren't any available upgrades after installing both
> > (apt-get update && apt-get upgrade showed 0).
> > 
> > The offending list is:
> > 
> > hv3
[ and its dependencies ]
> > 
> > Maybe there's a bug somewhere in tasksel?
> 
> I consider it Faulty Design.
> 
> there is no "Debian desktop environment"... from my superficial
> testing it is kinda "Gnome Lite"
> (and in My Opinion gnome desktop is rather hateful).
> 
> Being selected by default is a Huge design flaw.
> 
> a simple "select a desktop environment" text message with something
> like "without a desktop you only get a terminal" as a suggestion for
> the uninformed would be far superior.

This particular horse was flogged a year ago. Top of thread:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2020/09/msg00238.html

It's not something I take great interest in as I don't use a DE.

> BTW: I only use net-install because I don't want all that cruft.

I wasn't aware that the netinst d-i distinguished itself by not
installing "cruft". AIUI, whether you install a DE depends on your
replies on this screen:

  │ Choose software to install:   │   
  │   │   
  │   [*] Debian desktop environment  │   
  │   [*] ... GNOME   │   
  │   [ ] ... Xfce│   
  │   [ ] ... GNOME Flashback │   
  │   [ ] ... KDE Plasma  │   
  │   [ ] ... Cinnamon│   
  │   [ ] ... MATE│   
  │   [ ] ... LXDE│   
  │   [ ] ... LXQt│   
  │   [ ] web server  │   
  │   [ ] SSH server  │   
  │   [*] standard system utilities   │   

I've installed non-DE and non-DE, non-X systems from DVDs in the past,
and one DE installation from a netinst.

> PS: hunting down all swap partitions on very drive and setting them to
> Format by default is also a real pain in the tush.

I've no idea what is meant by this, nor its relevance to the Subject.
I'd mention in passing that I installed bullseye on a 512MB laptop
without configuring any swap space, as always. I leave that until the
system is up and running.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 16:44:04 +, Brian wrote:

> On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 16:28:36 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 12:50:23PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) 
> > wrote:
> > > hv3
> > 
> > This is a web browser written in TCL/tK. What I suspect is happening is
> > it's being pulled in to satisfy a dependency on "www-browser" virtual
> > package by one of the desktop metapackages.
> 
> Interesting that hv3 hasn't any Reverse Depends: and that 'apt install
> task-desktop task-xfce-desktop' does not propose it for installation'.

I forgot firefox-esr is installed. This satisfies the www-browser
package dependency. Hence

 apt install task-desktop task-xfce-desktop 
 
 apt install task-xfce-desktop

show the same number of packages to be installed.

Purging the browser gives the twelve package differnece obtianed by
Alejandro Colomar.

Now it gets more interesting. task-xfce-desktop depends on task-desktop
and the later recommends firefox | firefox-esr. The first command above
proposes to install firefox-esr. Why propose hv3 too?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 04:04:17PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 13:43:29 +, Tixy wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 07:47 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon 
> > > > > installation?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
> > > > unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task happens
> > > > to be GNOME.
> > > > 
> > > > With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.
> > 
> > Guessing here... because a live version already has a desktop
> > environment on the disk, so it make sense to default to installing that
> > one. E.g. if you choose, say, the XFCE live iso, it would default to
> > XFCE not Gnome. Would be a bit perverse otherwise.
> 
> I rather thought the Live images contained a copy of d-i but am not
> going to download an ISO to refresh my menory. I will offer
> 
>   
> https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live-manual/customizing-installer.en.html
> 
> I'd see it as a bit unusual for this copy to differ from the regular d-i.
> 

A few things: 

1. GNOME is only the default on AMD64 / i386 - on some of the ARM variants,
it's still XFCE, I think.

2. XFCE _was_ the default for a one CD install until Buster - it's now
too big for one CD so there is no longer a CD which will install as 
single desktop by default.

3. The live CDs are designed so that you download the one with the desktop
you want. The "standard" one installs a minimum Debian with standard packages
and no gui.

4. Live CD install is not guaranteed to be the same as the traditional
Debian installer. Calamares is very significantly different. Live CD/DVD is 
maintained by a different libe CD team and not by the Debian media team.

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater



> -- 
> Brian.
> 

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 16:28:36 +, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 12:50:23PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:
> > hv3
> 
> This is a web browser written in TCL/tK. What I suspect is happening is
> it's being pulled in to satisfy a dependency on "www-browser" virtual
> package by one of the desktop metapackages.

Interesting that hv3 hasn't any Reverse Depends: and that 'apt install
task-desktop task-xfce-desktop' does not propose it for installation'.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Fri, Nov 05, 2021 at 12:50:23PM +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:

hv3


This is a web browser written in TCL/tK. What I suspect is happening is
it's being pulled in to satisfy a dependency on "www-browser" virtual
package by one of the desktop metapackages.


libsqlite3-tcl
libtcl8.6
libtk-img
libtk8.6
tcl
tcl-tls
tcl8.6
tcllib
tk
tk-html3
tk8.6


These are all dependencies from hv3.

--
Please do not CC me for listmail.

  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 13:43:29 +, Tixy wrote:

> On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 07:47 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> > 
> > > > Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
> > > unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task happens
> > > to be GNOME.
> > > 
> > > With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
> > > 
> > 
> > And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.
> 
> Guessing here... because a live version already has a desktop
> environment on the disk, so it make sense to default to installing that
> one. E.g. if you choose, say, the XFCE live iso, it would default to
> XFCE not Gnome. Would be a bit perverse otherwise.

I rather thought the Live images contained a copy of d-i but am not
going to download an ISO to refresh my menory. I will offer

  
https://live-team.pages.debian.net/live-manual/html/live-manual/customizing-installer.en.html

I'd see it as a bit unusual for this copy to differ from the regular d-i.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Peter Ehlert]

On 11/5/21 4:50 AM, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:

Hi,

I did some test by installing 2 identical virtualbox instances (EFI 
turned on) with the same netinst image .


I typically use XFCE, so I wanted to test if leaving "Debian desktop 
environment" marked would affect or not my XFCE installation.


It does.

a)
| [ ]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    XFCE

b)
| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    XFCE

Using (b), I end up with 12 more installed packages.  I checked that 
there weren't any available upgrades after installing both (apt-get 
update && apt-get upgrade showed 0).


The offending list is:

hv3
libsqlite3-tcl
libtcl8.6
libtk-img
libtk8.6
tcl
tcl-tls
tcl8.6
tcllib
tk
tk-html3
tk8.6

Maybe there's a bug somewhere in tasksel?


I consider it Faulty Design.

there is no "Debian desktop environment"... from my superficial testing 
it is kinda "Gnome Lite"

(and in My Opinion gnome desktop is rather hateful).

Being selected by default is a Huge design flaw.

a simple "select a desktop environment" text message with something like 
"without a desktop you only get a terminal" as a suggestion for the 
uninformed would be far superior.


BTW: I only use net-install because I don't want all that cruft.

PS: hunting down all swap partitions on very drive and setting them to 
Format by default is also a real pain in the tush.




I did some tests running tasksel again after the installation, and 
were intriguing, but I'll hold the deeper tests for after this is 
inspected.


Cheers,

Alex

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Tixy]

On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 07:47 -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:
> 
> > > Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
> > unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task happens
> > to be GNOME.
> > 
> > With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
> > 
> 
> And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.

Guessing here... because a live version already has a desktop
environment on the disk, so it make sense to default to installing that
one. E.g. if you choose, say, the XFCE live iso, it would default to
XFCE not Gnome. Would be a bit perverse otherwise.

-- 
Tixy

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Brian]

On Fri 05 Nov 2021 at 12:50:23 +0100, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I did some test by installing 2 identical virtualbox instances (EFI turned
> on) with the same netinst image .
> 
> I typically use XFCE, so I wanted to test if leaving "Debian desktop
> environment" marked would affect or not my XFCE installation.
> 
> It does.
> 
> a)
> | [ ]  Debian desktop environment
> | [*]    XFCE
> 
> b)
> | [*]  Debian desktop environment
> | [*]XFCE
> 
> Using (b), I end up with 12 more installed packages.  I checked that there
> weren't any available upgrades after installing both (apt-get update &&
> apt-get upgrade showed 0).
> 
> The offending list is:
> 
> hv3
> libsqlite3-tcl
> libtcl8.6
> libtk-img
> libtk8.6
> tcl
> tcl-tls
> tcl8.6
> tcllib
> tk
> tk-html3
> tk8.6
> 
> Maybe there's a bug somewhere in tasksel?
> 
> I did some tests running tasksel again after the installation, and were
> intriguing, but I'll hold the deeper tests for after this is inspected.

Bearing in mind that a bullseye installation of mine does not have a
DE but does have xorg, the commands
 
  apt install task-desktop task-xfce-desktop
  apt install task-xfce-desktop

tell me that 759 packages are needed in both cases. None of the packages
you cite are mentioned in either list or already present on the sytem..

-- 
Brian.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Nicholas Geovanis]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 7:21 AM Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> > Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?
>
> 
>
> Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
> unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task happens
> to be GNOME.
>
> With the "Live" installers, the default is different.
>

And if I may ask: Why is it different? If there is a reason or two.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Greg Wooledge]

> Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

Assuming you install with one of the REGULAR installers (not one that
contains the word "Live" anywhere in its name): yes.

Selecting "Debian desktop environment" in the installer simply acts
as an alias for whichever desktop environment task happens to be the
default for that installer.

Right now, for the regular official installers (and also for the
unofficial installer with non-free firmware), that default task happens
to be GNOME.

With the "Live" installers, the default is different.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)]

Hi,

I added a few CCs, and added below a quote that I should have added to 
the original mail.


On 11/5/21 12:50, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote:

Hi,

I did some test by installing 2 identical virtualbox instances (EFI 
turned on) with the same netinst image .


I typically use XFCE, so I wanted to test if leaving "Debian desktop 
environment" marked would affect or not my XFCE installation.


It does.

a)
| [ ]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    XFCE

b)
| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    XFCE

Using (b), I end up with 12 more installed packages.  I checked that 
there weren't any available upgrades after installing both (apt-get 
update && apt-get upgrade showed 0).


The offending list is:

hv3
libsqlite3-tcl
libtcl8.6
libtk-img
libtk8.6
tcl
tcl-tls
tcl8.6
tcllib
tk
tk-html3
tk8.6

Maybe there's a bug somewhere in tasksel?

I did some tests running tasksel again after the installation, and were 
intriguing, but I'll hold the deeper tests for after this is inspected.




Sorry, I forgot to quote the previous mail:



> I think the goal of the menu design was to accommodate
> a first time user who has no experiential background
> to chose a specific desktop.  If you chose
> "Debian desktop environment" AND a specific desktop,
> the specific choice overrides.

So I proved that this is not what is happening.

Cheers,

Alex


--
Alejandro Colomar
Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)]

Hi,

I did some test by installing 2 identical virtualbox instances (EFI 
turned on) with the same netinst image .


I typically use XFCE, so I wanted to test if leaving "Debian desktop 
environment" marked would affect or not my XFCE installation.


It does.

a)
| [ ]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]XFCE

b)
| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]XFCE

Using (b), I end up with 12 more installed packages.  I checked that 
there weren't any available upgrades after installing both (apt-get 
update && apt-get upgrade showed 0).


The offending list is:

hv3
libsqlite3-tcl
libtcl8.6
libtk-img
libtk8.6
tcl
tcl-tls
tcl8.6
tcllib
tk
tk-html3
tk8.6

Maybe there's a bug somewhere in tasksel?

I did some tests running tasksel again after the installation, and were 
intriguing, but I'll hold the deeper tests for after this is inspected.


Cheers,

Alex


--
Alejandro Colomar
Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[dft]

Thank you, Richard Hector and Richard Owlett.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Richard Owlett]

On 05/14/2018 06:42 AM, dft wrote:

When clean-installing Debian 9.4 from "debian-9.4.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso" using the 
text-based interface, the following dialog appears.

| Software selection
|
| At the moment, only the core of the system is installed.
| To tune the system to your needs, you can choose to install
| one or more of the following predefined collections of software.
|
| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [ ]    GNOME
| [ ]    Xfce
| [ ]    KDE
| [ ]    Cinnamon
| [ ]    MATE
| [ ]    LXDE
| [ ]  web server
| [*]  print server
| [ ]  SSH server
| [*]  standard system utilities

After the installation was performed with "Debian desktop environment" checked and 
"GNOME" unchecked, I found GNOME installed.

It seems that the following three combinations have exactly the same effect, 
but I am not sure.  Please confirm whether the following three combinations 
have exactly the same effect.

| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [ ]    GNOME

| [ ]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    GNOME

| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    GNOME

Does checking "Debian desktop environment" have exactly the same effect as checking 
"GNOME"?




Yes.
I think the goal of the menu design was to accommodate a first time user 
who has no experiential  background to chose a specific desktop.
If you chose "Debian desktop environment" AND a specific desktop, the 
specific choice overrides.

Re: Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[Richard Hector]

On 14/05/18 23:42, dft wrote:

> It seems that the following three combinations have exactly the same
> effect, but I am not sure.  Please confirm whether the following three
> combinations have exactly the same effect. 
> 
> | [*]  Debian desktop environment
> | [ ]    GNOME
> 
> | [ ]  Debian desktop environment
> | [*]    GNOME
> 
> | [*]  Debian desktop environment
> | [*]    GNOME
> 
> Does checking "Debian desktop environment" have exactly the same effect
> as checking "GNOME"?
> 

There were comments about this recently on the list. I believe the
answer is yes, due to Gnome being the first on the list. ie if you don't
pick a specific DE, the first one is chosen.

Richard



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Is "Debian desktop environment" identical to "GNOME" upon installation?

[dft]

When clean-installing Debian 9.4 from "debian-9.4.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso" using the 
text-based interface, the following dialog appears.

| Software selection
| 
| At the moment, only the core of the system is installed.
| To tune the system to your needs, you can choose to install
| one or more of the following predefined collections of software.
| 
| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [ ]    GNOME
| [ ]    Xfce
| [ ]    KDE
| [ ]    Cinnamon
| [ ]    MATE
| [ ]    LXDE
| [ ]  web server
| [*]  print server
| [ ]  SSH server
| [*]  standard system utilities

After the installation was performed with "Debian desktop environment" checked 
and "GNOME" unchecked, I found GNOME installed.

It seems that the following three combinations have exactly the same effect, 
but I am not sure.  Please confirm whether the following three combinations 
have exactly the same effect.  

| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [ ]    GNOME

| [ ]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    GNOME

| [*]  Debian desktop environment
| [*]    GNOME

Does checking "Debian desktop environment" have exactly the same effect as 
checking "GNOME"?

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[pjw]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 06:01 AM, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
>
> Hi, Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security...

Apropos:

Debian Moves To Non-Root X.Org Server By Default[1]


Links:

  1. 
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-org-drivers/x-org-drm/832700-debian-moves-to-non-root-x-org-server-by-default

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Václav Ovsík]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 09:45:47AM -0700, pjw wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 06:01 AM, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> > security...
> 
> Apropos:
> 
> Debian Moves To Non-Root X.Org Server By Default[1]

I'm afraid only if started by gdm (or startx by user)...

-- 
Zito

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[moxalt]

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 14:01:09 +0100, Mateusz Kozłowski <mateu...@hush.com> wrote:

> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME
> etc.)?

They're all reasonably secure. Of course, if you want to narrow your attack
surface, you shouldn't be running a desktop at all. Or even be using a computer
for that matter ;)

It's really just personal preference. I like Xfce. It's lightweight, fast,
doesn't eat RAM, isn't complicated, can look beautiful with a bit of theming,
and has sane settings. It's not very big on the disk either.

You can install it by installing xfce4 and xfce4-goodies.

If your computer can handle it and you want something a bit snazzier out of the
box, with all the bells and whistles, try KDE or something. I think it's
horribly bloated, but that's just me.

Another one I like is MATE, a fork of GNOME 2 before the GNOME project went
KDE-level insane.

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Patrick Bartek]

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian
> users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?

My opinion is that no one desktop environment is any more secure than
the next just because of the way they work and what they are used for.
However, I do believe "smaller" less complicated DE tend to be more
secure as they have less "features" that can be exploited. Personally,
I don't use a desktop.  A good window manager is all I need.

And for what it's worth, the biggest security hole in any system is the
user.

B

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Mario Castelán Castro]

Security and privacy are not products. No software provides them as a 
finished product ready for consumption. Software is just a tool used in 
achieving either. One must also ask and answer: security against 
_what_?. The habits of the user are just as important, and very often 
they are the weakest link.


In other words, do not think that you have privacy or security just 
because you are using some particular security-related or 
privacy-related piece of software or protocol, like GNU PG, Tor, TLS or 
an hypothetical hardened Desktop environment; these software do their 
job, and usually are good at it, but if you have bad practices, then you 
will be turning all of that software into just a hindrance to an 
attacker. Just for en example, study the case of "dread pirate roberts".


El 27/10/15 a las 08:16, Michael Jones escribió:

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski" <mateu...@hush.com> wrote:



Hi,
Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
GNOME etc.)?

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Tue, 2015-10-27 at 14:01 +0100, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most
> security and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian
> users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?

Hand picking components and evaluating them on their own is probably
the best way to go.

Possibly also examining alternatives to Debian, such as Tails or Qubes
OS, depending on how security conscious and/or attached to Debian you
are.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5





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Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Tim McDonough]

I agree with several other comments with regards to security not being 
necessarily related to a specific desktop environment. In my opinion I 
think the best security comes from using both a Linux distribution and a 
desktop environment that you (or the admin) is very familiar with and 
understands configuration issues related to security. I believe if 
someone uses the "distro of the day" you are more likely to overlook 
something.


For whatever it may be worth my personal choice is usually LXDE on 
Debian. LXDE is pretty straight forward to configure and is seems fairly 
frugal with its use of resources. Outside of a server environment my 
main Linux machine is an older laptop. With LXDE and a solid state disk 
even a dual-core machine is very responsive.


Tim

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 27 October 2015 13:01:09 Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?

Speaking personally, and we will all do that, and you will get a great pile of 
different answers, including "don't use a desktop", but speaking personally, 
I recommend Trinity Desktop Environment.
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

Lisi

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[jonas hedman]

On 15-10-27 14:01:09, Mateusz Kozłowski wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and 
> the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME 
> etc.)?
> 

What is your threat model?

-- 
Jonas Hedman 

XMPP:n...@jabber.at
PGP Key: 0x5c3989e0616bb08c
Fingerprint: 8F72 C5BE AAFA B4BA 8F46  9185 5C39 89E0 616B B08C


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Michael Jones]

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski" <mateu...@hush.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
> and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?
>
>

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Michael Jones]

I prefer xfce but why just comes down to preference, it feels cleaner,
faster and simpler, but that's just me

Only way to find out is to give them all a go (at least on livecd)

Privacy is the same across all, although gnome3 has some extra gui for some
preferences for wiping temp files i think, (could be done with a crontab)

Security wise i'd expect them all to be roughly the same again, the main
sec vulns on desktop come from software for login or screenlock stuff thats
generic (although these are rare), your far more likely to have vulnerable
user space applications than the dm itself.

So the only thing to pick off is preference and feel really
On 27 Oct 2015 1:51 pm, "Mateusz Kozłowski" <mateu...@hush.com> wrote:

>
> Hi,
> Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security
> and the best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE,
> GNOME etc.)?
>
>

Re: Debian Desktop Environment

[Himanshu Shekhar]

I hope this discussion should continue, rather than conclude, as more views
means more purity in idea.

As far as security is concerned, it is the Debian OS which determines
policies more than the DE. Also, I would like to categorize them as under:
KDE : Heavy, high-end graphics, consumes resources (
GNOME : Moderate, cool graphics, consumes moderate resources,
Xfce : Light, not-so-good graphics, customizable, consumes less resources
MATE : Moderate, cool graphics, consumes moderate resources, BASED ON GNOME2
LXDE : Extremely light, XP type looks, minimal resource consumption

For everyday use, I prefer to GNOME (gnome3), personal opinion, while many
people hate the changes, but it's pretty good.
You can prefer to MATE if you were a gnome user and were used to it.
You should use XFCE or LXDE if you don't care about the looks but the
performance.

Also, for a lazy weekend, if you have DVD1 of the iso image OR good
internet, then you can install any desktop environment and have a try
yourself rather than having other's opinions. That would let you know what
suits you.
Disk space is not a big issue these days. :)
-- 
Regards
Himanshu Shekhar
IIIT-Allahabad
IRM2015006

Debian Desktop Environment

[Mateusz Kozłowski]

Hi,
Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and the 
best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?

Debian Desktop Environment

[Mateusz Kozłowski]

Hi,
Could You tell me which debian desktop environment is the most security and the 
best privacy and which You recommned for debian users? (KDE, XFCE, GNOME etc.)?