Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 01:38:51AM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne, 17. 09. 2010 23:33:00 je Aaron Toponce napisal(a): That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades. Not true. They are still the preferred choice amongst serious audiophiles. -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100921094417.ge19...@fischer
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 21/09/10 19:44, Chris Bannister wrote: On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 01:38:51AM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne, 17. 09. 2010 23:33:00 je Aaron Toponce napisal(a): That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades. Not true. They are still the preferred choice amongst serious audiophiles. True, but how many companies still press LPs? More than piano roll manufacturers? I did hear that there is at least 2 LP makers - though I wouldn't expect the number to increase anytime soon. Whereas CDs are still manufactured by no one (?) Ditto floppy disks. (and crts). Given the amount of time and money being sunk into higher storage capacity mediums I'd expect to see blu-ray replaced within 5 years (if not earlier). I've still got rolls of Super8 - but it's no longer manufactured either. Cheers -- *In case you never receive this mail, please notify me immediately* -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c988003.7030...@gmail.com
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
Dne, 21. 09. 2010 11:44:17 je Chris Bannister napisal(a): On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 01:38:51AM +0200, Klistvud wrote: I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades. Not true. They are still the preferred choice amongst serious audiophiles. Just as film is still the preferred choice among (some) serious photographers. Can't argue against that. To clarify: it was the large-scale, mainstream consumer market lifespan what I had in mind when I wrote useful lifespan. As opposed to niche market lifespan. -- Regards, Klistvud Certifiable Loonix User #481801 http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com Please reply to the list, not to me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1285064661.215...@compax
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 09/21/2010 05:50 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 21/09/10 19:44, Chris Bannister wrote: On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 01:38:51AM +0200, Klistvud wrote: Dne, 17. 09. 2010 23:33:00 je Aaron Toponce napisal(a): That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades. Not true. They are still the preferred choice amongst serious audiophiles. True, but how many companies still press LPs? More than piano roll manufacturers? I did hear that there is at least 2 LP makers - though I wouldn't expect the number to increase anytime soon. Whereas CDs are still manufactured by no one (?) Ditto floppy disks. (and crts). /snip/ Borders has a full section of CDs. How else will you buy music? One-offs at 99¢ from I-tunes? If I want an album of Chopin, am I going to have to watch a BR video of somebody playing it? (That's a tough one for drivers with CD players!) You can still buy floppies at Radio Shack. And cassette tape. I don't know for how long. The rumor is that they will be bought by a big-box consumer appliance store. --doug -- Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c992f26.2090...@optonline.net
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 19/09/10 06:04, Mark Allums wrote: On 9/18/2010 4:55 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: I'm very happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd. This bears some explanation. Are you watching stuff from Blu-Ray on a Debian machine? How? What is the process? PAU supported video, blu-ray player, makemkv, vlc, google ;-p -- *In case you never receive this mail, please notify me immediately* -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c95ef97.4030...@gmail.com
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:51:21 +1000 Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been misreported is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of the disk... the disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from the player to the screen that is encrypted with HDCP. The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up in a FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need fast RAID and a few TB of space). You would need around about 1TB of space for 1 movie uncompressed and the FPGA/raid would need to be able to sustain around about 120-200MB/s. So it would need to be a highend FPGA/Raid, but the whole thing could probs be had for around about £1000 + disks. -- Regards, Angus Hedger Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 18/09/10 19:10, Angus Hedger wrote: On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:51:21 +1000 Scott Ferguson prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com wrote: The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been misreported is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of the disk... the disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from the player to the screen that is encrypted with HDCP. The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up in a FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need fast RAID and a few TB of space). You would need around about 1TB of space for 1 movie uncompressed and the FPGA/raid would need to be able to sustain around about 120-200MB/s. So it would need to be a highend FPGA/Raid, but the whole thing could probs be had for around about £1000 + disks. -- Regards, Angus Hedger Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97 Agreed (though I've no idea what a UK (?) pound is worth. 1920 x 1080 x 24 bits per pixel x 24 fps = 145MB/sec (not allowing for audio) I suspect there would only be two types of user for the key - vendors of home entertainment systems might become a market (though they already use a system to bypass restrictions on projectors), and commercial pirating operations (the ones who actually press disks). Though the articles I've read all talk about pirates I suspect the reporters are just *cough* wrong (pre-release pirate material is copied from studio prior to encryption). I recall reading an article by a Google engineer where he spoke of a (Linux) system using multiple off-the-shelf computers with software (?) RAID to achieve near-RAM speed disk access - and an evaluation FPGA card from www.xilinx.com is fairly cheap... With reference to the original posters question - maybe, just maybe, the key might become part of a driver to allow any display to display a stream from a blueray player... but I won't be writing it. I'm very happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd. Cheers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c948ca2.9070...@gmail.com
Blu-ray status in Linux (was: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?)
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:29:49 +0100, Angus Hedger wrote: On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:12:47 -0500 Mark Allums wrote: (...) I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? (...) It means that BR playback on linux is closer, for example windows has a protected content layer that passes the content from the player to the screen, with this key you could build something like that for windows. Mmmm, just out of curiosity (as I don't own a BD player neither have Blu- ray discs to play) but, do you mean there is currently no way to play Blu- ray in Linux? :-? Or just to put it in other words, what is the current status of the Blu- ray technology in Linux? It seems there is a project¹ that allows viewing such media type, but does it work nice, has any drawbacks...? ¹ http://themediaviking.com/software/bluray-linux/ Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.09.18.14.39...@gmail.com
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 9/18/2010 4:55 AM, Scott Ferguson wrote: I'm very happy with the performance I get by simply copying the bluerays I buy to hard drive, and I prefer keep my media on hdd. This bears some explanation. Are you watching stuff from Blu-Ray on a Debian machine? How? What is the process? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c951b6b.9080...@allums.com
Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray. I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c93d9cf.20...@allums.com
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:12:47 -0500 Mark Allums m...@allums.com wrote: The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray. I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? HDCP =! BR. Blueray is protected by BD+ and acss, HDCP is what closes the analog hole (between the player and the screen). Having the HDCP key means you could make a virtual device that accepts a HDCP encrypted single then passes it out in an unencrypted form to the screen. It means that BR playback on linux is closer, for example windows has a protected content layer that passes the content from the player to the screen, with this key you could build something like that for windows. -- Regards, Angus Hedger Debian GNU/Linux User PGP Public Key 0xEE6A4B97 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:12:47PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote: The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray. I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? I would count on it. As much as libdecss is a part of the GNU/Linux ecosystem, I would expect libdehdcp, or similar to become a part of the same. That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. -- . o . o . o . . o o . . . o . . . o . o o o . o . o o . . o o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
Dne, 17. 09. 2010 23:33:00 je Aaron Toponce napisal(a): That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. I wouldn't count on that. The useful lifespan of each subsequent media support has been steadily decreasing since at least the advent of celluloid film. Vinyl records lasted for, give or take, 7 or 8 decades. CDs will hardly reach 5 decades. DVDs are being slowly supplanted by BluRay after having lasted, what, 2 decades? At that rate, BluRay should be dead in 10 years. Good riddance. -- Regards, Klistvud Certifiable Loonix User #481801 http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com Please reply to the list, not to me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1284766731.2471...@compax
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 9/17/2010 4:33 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote: On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:12:47PM -0500, Mark Allums wrote: The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray. I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? I would count on it. As much as libdecss is a part of the GNU/Linux ecosystem, I would expect libdehdcp, or similar to become a part of the same. That is, if Blu-ray is here to stay. As was pointed out by Angus Hedger, I realized that HDCP =/= Blu-Ray. The hope of some is that having the one will help with the other. The success of Blu-Ray's encryption is in part because they can revoke keys and add new ones. Newer movie releases use the new keys. In some instances, older players will fail to play new movies without a firmware update. (There are other reasons for this, like new codecs and new disc menus and other things.) Still, we can hope. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c9400e6.4020...@allums.com
Re: Does the HDCP crack have any implications for Debian?
On 18/09/10 07:12, Mark Allums wrote: The master key to HDCP was leaked and it has been reported that it is legitimate, meaning it is now possible to crack Blu-Ray. I'm not interested in that, but I wondered if that meant that we would eventually be able to play Blu-Ray on Debian machines. Do you suppose we will see Blu-Ray support in VLC anytime soon? The key is legitimate (confirmed by Intel) - what has been misreported is that the key is used for encrypting the contents of the disk... the disks are encrypted using AACS, it's the stream from the player to the screen that is encrypted with HDCP. The key (I want it printed on a bedsheet) is most likely to turn up in a FPGA board, to be used by people wanting to rip the stream (need fast RAID and a few TB of space). So - sorry no relationship between the stream encypting key and the ability to read the disk. The x264 encoder is more efficient than h264, so the current method of ripping (lossy) still produces a better picture quality than the legal releases. Note: HDCP is what decides whether your monitor is allowed to display the stream. Hint: copy the disk to hdd and HDCP is removed from the equation. for your edification:- a forty times forty element matrix of fifty-six bit hexadecimal numbers. To generate a source key, take a forty-bit number that (in binary) consists of twenty ones and twenty zeroes; this is the source KSV. Add together those twenty rows of the matrix that correspond to the ones in the KSV (with the lowest bit in the KSV corresponding to the first row), taking all elements modulo two to the power of fifty-six; this is the source private key. To generate a sink key, do the same, but with the transposed matrix. snipbig table/snip Cheers -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4c940d09.4000...@gmail.com
