Re: File system for linux and windows
>On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 1:22 AM, Klaus Wolf wrote: > >Hi, > > > >you may try fat32 for using on both systems. I made three partitions: > > > > ntfsuse with windows > > ext3use with lenny > > fat32 for data storage use for lenny and windows > I second this as long as you don't have files in excess of 4 GB. If you are dual-booting with Windows then a nice big fat32 partition sandwiched between the two OS's has worked well for me. Example with a 160 gb hdd: --- | | | | | | 20 gb | 120 gb fat32| 19 gb| 1 gb | | ntfs | | ext3 |swap| --- >On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Tixy wrote: >>On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 20:36 +1100, Alex Samad wrote: >> I have reliable used ntfs-3g (fuse based ntfs) to write to ntfs >> partitions with a zero defect rate > >I have to, but I have noticed that files get horribly fragmented and >this doesn't get fixed by the Windows defrag program, or by deleting >then recreating files under Windows. It seems ntfs-3g does something >permanent to the file system structure. Even when using tools like jkdefrag to keep a hdd nicely organized and defrag'd from within Windows, ntfs has a nasty habit of fragmenting files from what I've experienced. So I don't know if it's an ntfs thing or ntfs-3g package thing. But it's definitely a thing. :) Mark
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 20:36 +1100, Alex Samad wrote: > I have reliable used ntfs-3g (fuse based ntfs) to write to ntfs > partitions with a zero defect rate I have to, but I have noticed that files get horribly fragmented and this doesn't get fixed by the Windows defrag program, or by deleting then recreating files under Windows. It seems ntfs-3g does something permanent to the file system structure. -- Tixy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:22:06AM +0100, Klaus Wolf wrote: > Hi, > > you may try fat32 for using on both systems. I made three partitions: > > ntfsuse with windows > ext3use with lenny > fat32 for data storage use for lenny and windows I have reliable used ntfs-3g (fuse based ntfs) to write to ntfs partitions with a zero defect rate > > best regards and a nice day > > klaus > [snip] > Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 17:35 + schrieb Bhasker C V: signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: File system for linux and windows
Hi, you may try fat32 for using on both systems. I made three partitions: ntfsuse with windows ext3use with lenny fat32 for data storage use for lenny and windows best regards and a nice day klaus Am Donnerstag, den 28.01.2010, 17:35 + schrieb Bhasker C V: > On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, Bhasker C V wrote: > > > Camaleón wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +, Bhasker C V wrote: > >> > >> (...) > >> > >> > >>> So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both > >>> windows and also linux ? > >>> > >>> Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also > >>> (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the > >>> FS is not in a partition) ? > >>> > >> > >> I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-? > >> > > Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is not > > working with windows. > > I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux. For > > data in windows, ntfs partitions > > can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The > > external > > disk can _only_ be used in > > linux and not in windows. > Finally found issue was with the SATA to USB converter which has issues > when used for a long time period and heats up. Once I moved to another USB > casing things starting falling in place. So, it is a hardware issue > > > TO SUMMARISE > > the best way to do it (if i can call it that) would be to use ntfs. Ntfs > supports most of the 'features' you would like to have after using ext2/ext3. > NTFS (both kernel one and the ntfs-3g) works fine and can be used without > any data loss issues if properly and carefully used. > > >> Greetings, > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Bhasker C V > > Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org) > > Fedora Ambassador: Bhaslinux > > > > > > Bhasker C V > Registered linux user #306349 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Fri,22.Jan.10, 22:28:26, Bhasker C V wrote: > Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well > supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with > FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for > case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system. See option 'posix' in mount(8). Unfortunately fat32 has other limitations (file size) which make it unsuitable for some current applications. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010, Bhasker C V wrote: Camaleón wrote: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +, Bhasker C V wrote: (...) So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-? Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is not working with windows. I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux. For data in windows, ntfs partitions can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The external disk can _only_ be used in linux and not in windows. Finally found issue was with the SATA to USB converter which has issues when used for a long time period and heats up. Once I moved to another USB casing things starting falling in place. So, it is a hardware issue TO SUMMARISE the best way to do it (if i can call it that) would be to use ntfs. Ntfs supports most of the 'features' you would like to have after using ext2/ext3. NTFS (both kernel one and the ntfs-3g) works fine and can be used without any data loss issues if properly and carefully used. Greetings, -- Bhasker C V Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org) Fedora Ambassador: Bhaslinux Bhasker C V Registered linux user #306349
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 22:19:44 +, Joe wrote: > Bhasker C V wrote: >> Camaleón wrote: >>> I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic >>> :-? >>> >> Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is >> not working with windows. >> I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux. >> For data in windows, ntfs partitions >> can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The >> external disk can _only_ be used in >> linux and not in windows. > > There are many UDF versions, and if Windows is not natively able to read > one, it is possible that Adaptec's InCD or Roxio's DirectCD may be able > to. They supported UDF on Windows long before Microsoft did. I was > writing UDF to CD-Rs on Windows 98 with DirectCD. Yes, it seems UDF 1.50 is the most widely "supported" along many OS, or so it says Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format#Native_OS_support Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
Bhasker C V wrote: Camaleón wrote: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +, Bhasker C V wrote: (...) So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-? Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is not working with windows. I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux. For data in windows, ntfs partitions can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The external disk can _only_ be used in linux and not in windows. There are many UDF versions, and if Windows is not natively able to read one, it is possible that Adaptec's InCD or Roxio's DirectCD may be able to. They supported UDF on Windows long before Microsoft did. I was writing UDF to CD-Rs on Windows 98 with DirectCD. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
Alex Samad wrote: On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 01:30:59PM +, Bhasker C V wrote: Nick Douma wrote: [snip] Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g. I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download partitions (usenet, torrents, etc). I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am trying to capture all data (around 10,000 files) from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works fine. There is no file corruption. But it all starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting lots of files and says they are corrupt and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned. I have used ntfs (the ntfs-3g package, not the kernel ntfs drivers - there is a difference), and I have never had any problems - that weren't media related - faulty sector are you sure your use the fuse package, and doing a proper umount ? I think I need to run a complete block scan on the disk to check for bad sectors. This could also be a problem with the disk. [snip] On total, I lose a lot of files. -- Bhasker C V Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org) Fedora Ambassador: Bhaslinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 01:30:59PM +, Bhasker C V wrote: > Nick Douma wrote: [snip] > >>Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that > >>when there are large number of files, undoubtably, > >>ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates > >>data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes > >>corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used > >>ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). > > > >I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g. > >I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS > >partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download > >partitions (usenet, torrents, etc). > I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am > trying to capture all data (around 10,000 files) > from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works > fine. There is no file corruption. But it all > starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting > lots of files and says they are corrupt > and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned. I have used ntfs (the ntfs-3g package, not the kernel ntfs drivers - there is a difference), and I have never had any problems - that weren't media related - faulty sector are you sure your use the fuse package, and doing a proper umount ? [snip] > On total, I lose a lot of files. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: File system for linux and windows
Camaleón wrote: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +, Bhasker C V wrote: (...) So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-? Tried it. UDF from udftools(1.0.0b2 ) on etch creates an UDF which is not working with windows. I am then left only with an option to use the backup only with linux. For data in windows, ntfs partitions can be mounted in linux and then copied over to the backup disk. The external disk can _only_ be used in linux and not in windows. Greetings, -- Bhasker C V Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org) Fedora Ambassador: Bhaslinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 22:28:26 +, Bhasker C V wrote: (...) > So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both > windows and also linux ? > > Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also > (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the > FS is not in a partition) ? I wonder if nowadays UDF could be used to deal with this problematic :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:28:26PM +, Bhasker C V wrote: > Hi, > > This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, > I think this would be a good reference for anybody. > > I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear > information on what to do. > > The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows > what is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity]. > > Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work > unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when > using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume > is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written > ext3 drivers in windows. > > Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that > when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes > corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not > have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using > linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in > vain). > > Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well > supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I > guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive > file names in the FAT32 file system. > > So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both > windows and also linux ? > > Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also > (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the > FS is not in a partition) ? > I don't know of any others. But if you have a network you can certainly have a network drive that is writable by both Linux and Windows. (using Samba). But I expect you're probably in a dual-boot situation where you're trying to share files on a single computer between the 2 OS's. For that I've always used FAT32, and it seems to work well. I don't like using it, especially after MS sued Tom Tom over their use of FAT32. Not that I'm worried about getting sued, but I'd like to shun MS technology in protest. -Rob -Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
Nick Douma wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23-1-2010 9:13, Bhasker C V wrote: Hi, This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, I think this would be a good reference for anybody. I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear information on what to do. The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows what is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity]. I have two 1TB drives, both with two partitions on them. One drive has two EXT3 partitions, the other two NTFS. Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written ext3 drivers in windows. I would expect that the problem does not occur when the encrypted partition is NTFS. Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g. I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download partitions (usenet, torrents, etc). I think this is the near best solution. This is the 3rd time I am trying to capture all data (around 10,000 files) from my linux box into the luks ntfs partition. Everything works fine. There is no file corruption. But it all starts to cruble the moment you use chkdsk. Chkdsk starts deleting lots of files and says they are corrupt and then on the next run it salvages files saying they are orphaned. On total, I lose a lot of files. Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system. Don't expect NTFS to be case-sensitive either when using it with Windows. I had two identically named folders, only with a single letter in a different case. Windows could not distinguish between the two folders. I would not use FAT32 if you didn't have to. It fragments like mad, and has no built in journaling to protect from data loss in case of a power outage. So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Really depends on what OS you are using the most. Using EXT3 means you lose the security information when using it with Windows. The same with NTFS and Linux. Both just ignore the information. If this is not an issue, then I would suggest using NTFS, because Windows supports it natively, and ntfs-3g is still being developed, unlike the EXT3 drivers for Windows. Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? I have no real experience with this, but I have a file-based Truecrypt partition in NTFS, and use them with both Linux and Windows. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkta6usACgkQkPq5zKsAFiiTTgCfW59xkr9qesGrjFUoGAJDwC/3 00sAn1Mz2pqWEF0PAsYiYriDYxRODi99 =YDym -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Bhasker C V Registered Linux user: #306349 (counter.li.org) Fedora Ambassador: Bhaslinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: File system for linux and windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23-1-2010 9:13, Bhasker C V wrote: > Hi, > > This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, > I think this would be a good reference for > anybody. > > I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear > information on what to do. > > The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows > what is the best file system to use[plus adding > security complexity]. I have two 1TB drives, both with two partitions on them. One drive has two EXT3 partitions, the other two NTFS. > > Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work > unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when > using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume > is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk > by any of the written > ext3 drivers in windows. I would expect that the problem does not occur when the encrypted partition is NTFS. > > Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that > when there are large number of files, undoubtably, > ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates > data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes > corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used > ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). I have never had a corrupted NTFS partition from using it with ntfs-3g. I've been using the setup I described above for years now, and the NTFS partitions are used intensively on both Windows and Linux as download partitions (usenet, torrents, etc). > > Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well > supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem > with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for > case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system. Don't expect NTFS to be case-sensitive either when using it with Windows. I had two identically named folders, only with a single letter in a different case. Windows could not distinguish between the two folders. I would not use FAT32 if you didn't have to. It fragments like mad, and has no built in journaling to protect from data loss in case of a power outage. > > So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both > windows and also linux ? Really depends on what OS you are using the most. Using EXT3 means you lose the security information when using it with Windows. The same with NTFS and Linux. Both just ignore the information. If this is not an issue, then I would suggest using NTFS, because Windows supports it natively, and ntfs-3g is still being developed, unlike the EXT3 drivers for Windows. > > Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also > (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in > windows even if the > FS is not in a partition) ? > I have no real experience with this, but I have a file-based Truecrypt partition in NTFS, and use them with both Linux and Windows. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkta6usACgkQkPq5zKsAFiiTTgCfW59xkr9qesGrjFUoGAJDwC/3 00sAn1Mz2pqWEF0PAsYiYriDYxRODi99 =YDym -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
File system for linux and windows
Hi, This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, I think this would be a good reference for anybody. I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear information on what to do. The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows what is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity]. Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written ext3 drivers in windows. Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system. So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? Bhasker C V Registered linux user #306349 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
File system for linux and windows
Hi, This may not be debian-specific question, but with the group expertise, I think this would be a good reference for anybody. I think this question has been debated a lot but still there is no clear information on what to do. The question is, if you want to share data between linux and windows what is the best file system to use[plus adding security complexity]. Using Ext3 on windows is good but has its limitations. This does not work unless the ext3 file system is on a partition. The limitation comes when using applications like freeOTFE which can read LUKS volumes. The volume is mounted as a drive but not detected as a disk by any of the written ext3 drivers in windows. Using NTFS on linux and windows is cool. I have consistently seen that when there are large number of files, undoubtably, ntfs volume goes corrupt and chkdsk simply removes files and creates data loss. I do not have any clue on when the FS goes corrupt (either when writing using linux or when using in windows - Used ntfs (kernel), ntfs-3g ... all in vain). Anyone can recommend VFAT. FAT32 being supported by XP and well supported by linux makes it a good candidate. The problem with FAT32, I guess (correct me if I am wrong), there is no support for case-sensitive file names in the FAT32 file system. So, the question... what FS to use which is good and reliable in both windows and also linux ? Is there any file system in linux which can work in windows also (meaning it can be read and optionally written-to in windows even if the FS is not in a partition) ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
