Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Mario Marietto wrote: > Point is : how many chances have the ravynos to enable the compatibility > with the apples apps ? from a technical and Legal point of view,I mean. The only known legal method for doing this involves two teams. Team one studies Mac OS and produces extensively detailed documentation on every interface; what goes in, and what it produces, and what the side effects are. They pass on the documentation to: Team two produces an implementation of the documentation. Nobody on team one ever gets to be a part of team two. -dsr-
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Point is : how many chances have the ravynos to enable the compatibility with the apples apps ? from a technical and Legal point of view,I mean. Il mar 22 nov 2022, 21:44 mick.crane ha scritto: > On 2022-11-21 20:03, Kamil Jońca wrote: > > Tom Browder writes: > > > >> I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > >> instructions I've received on this list. > >> > >> Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > >> > > > > Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS > > on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). The only > > exception is (was?) emacos server. > > > > Please correct me if I am wrong. > > KJ > > Apple business is selling cool hardware. obvs they don't want their > software on other hardware. > mick > >
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 2022-11-21 20:03, Kamil Jońca wrote: Tom Browder writes: I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following instructions I've received on this list. Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). The only exception is (was?) emacos server. Please correct me if I am wrong. KJ Apple business is selling cool hardware. obvs they don't want their software on other hardware. mick
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Mario Marietto wrote: > The ravynOS developers should know about the existence of basilisk II. They > could give a look under the hood to understand how to implement the > compatibility for the Apple's applications :D It won't help. Basilisk implements MacOS up through 9. Mac OS X is the first iteration of the modern Mac OS, the first based on BSD. The two are really two different operating systems -- to the point where Apple had to put in an emulator in the first few versions of X to run old software. Then they dropped it entirely. -dsr-
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
The ravynOS developers should know about the existence of basilisk II. They could give a look under the hood to understand how to implement the compatibility for the Apple's applications :D Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 20:04 Cindy Sue Causey < butterflyby...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > On 11/22/22, Miles Fidelman wrote: > > Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS > > running on another BSD. > > Apologies, am not totally following this thread, but this post popped > up just now. What about... > > apt-cache search bsd emulator > > That was a very short query. It brought up basilisk2.. > > Description: > > "Basilisk II is an Open Source 68k Macintosh emulator. That is, it enables > you to run 68k MacOS software on you computer, even if you are using a > different operating system. However, you still need a copy of MacOS and > a Macintosh ROM image to use Basilisk II." > > Only knew to try that because I tripped over similar for Android. You > still have to have some of "their" software to work on top of that, > but maybe it at least points toward something else similar with better > possibilities. > > Cindy :) > -- > Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA > * runs with birdseed * > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Jeffrey Walton writes: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 3:19 PM Kamil Jońca wrote: >> >> Tom Browder writes: >> >> > I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following >> > instructions I've received on this list. >> > >> > Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? >> >> Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS >> on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). The only >> exception is (was?) emacos server. >> >> Please correct me if I am wrong. > > As long as a discussion includes Debian development or use, it's on > topic for a Debian mailing list. If OP wishes to run MacOS in his > Debian hosted VM, that's his business. Confer, In some countries people can be punished for helping "crime" :) not only for doing it, so no, this is not "only his business." Giving advice how to run MacOS against its licence can be sometimes treated as such helping. (Forgive me terminology - I am not lawyer) Of coures this can be case where MacOS is running on VM whose host is debian running on Apple hardware. (IIRC this is permitted) > I don't recall a time when Debian admins were patrolling for companies > like Apple or Microsoft. I think that's something you might encounter Where you see patrolling? I just pointed it out, as I knew that this uncommon knowledge, and someone accidentally might get into troubles. (When for example ask on Apple forum for something) KJ -- http://stopstopnop.pl/stop_stopnop.pl_o_nas.html
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 11/22/22, Miles Fidelman wrote: > Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS > running on another BSD. Apologies, am not totally following this thread, but this post popped up just now. What about... apt-cache search bsd emulator That was a very short query. It brought up basilisk2.. Description: "Basilisk II is an Open Source 68k Macintosh emulator. That is, it enables you to run 68k MacOS software on you computer, even if you are using a different operating system. However, you still need a copy of MacOS and a Macintosh ROM image to use Basilisk II." Only knew to try that because I tripped over similar for Android. You still have to have some of "their" software to work on top of that, but maybe it at least points toward something else similar with better possibilities. Cindy :) -- Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA * runs with birdseed *
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Can I run macOS apps on ravynOS? No - not yet. This is a major goal and we're working towards it. So far, some trivial "Hello World" binaries in C and Objective-C have been compiled on macOS Big Sur and the resulting Mach-O binaries ran on ravynOS using our in-dev Hybrid linker without any Frameworks or tools from macOS. Source code of some simple Cocoa AppKit-based applications have been built on ravynOS and run as native applications (e.g. Install ravynOS.app). While this is all very exciting, you will have to wait a bit longer to run Photoshop or Xcode. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 19:26 Andrew M.A. Cater < amaca...@einval.com> ha scritto: > On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 07:09:32PM +0100, Mario Marietto wrote: > > I've found it : https://airyx.org/ > > > > Which has just decided to write a new GUI for itself - because it can. > Without using a pre-existing GUI. Oh, and it's renamed itself. > > > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 19:06 Mario Marietto < > > marietto2...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > > > > There is a fresh project, a couple of years old and in development, > about > > > a linux distro,if I remember correctly,or maybe it is based on > BSD,with the > > > goal to run the apple's software and it has the graphical interface > which > > > looks the same as the MacOSX. Does anyone remember the name ? The > advantage > > > is to not infringe any apple's copyright for sure. I'm not sure but if > the > > > system is different from the MacOSX but it offers the advantage to run > the > > > original apple's tools,is this a copyright infringement ? > > > > > If it looks sufficiently like MacOSX - it infringes Apple's copyright. > Apple > have had cases based on button shape before now - and they have attack dog > lawyers. Various other Linux distros have produced something that looks a > litle like MacOS - if it gets too similar, Apple get *very* twitchy. > > > > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 18:52 Miles Fidelman < > > > mfidel...@meetinghouse.net> ha scritto: > > > > > >> Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS > > >> running on another BSD. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mario Marietto wrote: > > >> > > >> How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and > feel of > > >> the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more > structural,but > > >> not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. > > >> > > See above: it's not straightforward. At the point when you want to do this, > you might as well be running a straight copy of BSD - and in every > likelihood, > it will never run Mac applications. > > > >> Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton < > > >> noloa...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > >> > > >>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto < > marietto2...@gmail.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? > > >>> > > >>> That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of > > >>> userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or > used > > >>> to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. > > >>> > > >>> I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They > > >>> finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error > > >>> code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video > > >>> with an old Mac saying it... > > >>> > > >>> Also > > >>> > https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ > > >>> and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . > > >>> > > >>> Jeff > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > With every good wish, as ever, > > Andy Cater > > >> -- > > >> Mario. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > > >> In practice, there is. Yogi Berra > > >> > > >> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. > > >> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. > > >> In our lab, theory and practice are combined: > > >> nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > Mario. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mario. > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 07:09:32PM +0100, Mario Marietto wrote: > I've found it : https://airyx.org/ > Which has just decided to write a new GUI for itself - because it can. Without using a pre-existing GUI. Oh, and it's renamed itself. > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 19:06 Mario Marietto < > marietto2...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > > There is a fresh project, a couple of years old and in development, about > > a linux distro,if I remember correctly,or maybe it is based on BSD,with the > > goal to run the apple's software and it has the graphical interface which > > looks the same as the MacOSX. Does anyone remember the name ? The advantage > > is to not infringe any apple's copyright for sure. I'm not sure but if the > > system is different from the MacOSX but it offers the advantage to run the > > original apple's tools,is this a copyright infringement ? > > If it looks sufficiently like MacOSX - it infringes Apple's copyright. Apple have had cases based on button shape before now - and they have attack dog lawyers. Various other Linux distros have produced something that looks a litle like MacOS - if it gets too similar, Apple get *very* twitchy. > > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 18:52 Miles Fidelman < > > mfidel...@meetinghouse.net> ha scritto: > > > >> Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS > >> running on another BSD. > >> > >> > >> > >> Mario Marietto wrote: > >> > >> How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of > >> the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but > >> not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. > >> See above: it's not straightforward. At the point when you want to do this, you might as well be running a straight copy of BSD - and in every likelihood, it will never run Mac applications. > >> Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton < > >> noloa...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> > >>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? > >>> > >>> That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of > >>> userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or used > >>> to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. > >>> > >>> I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They > >>> finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error > >>> code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video > >>> with an old Mac saying it... > >>> > >>> Also > >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ > >>> and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . > >>> > >>> Jeff > >>> > >> > >> With every good wish, as ever, Andy Cater > >> -- > >> Mario. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > >> In practice, there is. Yogi Berra > >> > >> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. > >> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. > >> In our lab, theory and practice are combined: > >> nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Mario. > > > > > -- > Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 3:19 PM Kamil Jońca wrote: > > Tom Browder writes: > > > I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > > instructions I've received on this list. > > > > Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > > Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS > on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). The only > exception is (was?) emacos server. > > Please correct me if I am wrong. As long as a discussion includes Debian development or use, it's on topic for a Debian mailing list. If OP wishes to run MacOS in his Debian hosted VM, that's his business. Confer, https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ . I don't recall a time when Debian admins were patrolling for companies like Apple or Microsoft. I think that's something you might encounter at places like Stack Overflow. The lawyers over at Stack Overflow like to close questions for reasons like "the question violates Apple Developer NDA" and "the question involves info from WWDC, which is not public information." Jeff
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
I've found it : https://airyx.org/ Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 19:06 Mario Marietto < marietto2...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > There is a fresh project, a couple of years old and in development, about > a linux distro,if I remember correctly,or maybe it is based on BSD,with the > goal to run the apple's software and it has the graphical interface which > looks the same as the MacOSX. Does anyone remember the name ? The advantage > is to not infringe any apple's copyright for sure. I'm not sure but if the > system is different from the MacOSX but it offers the advantage to run the > original apple's tools,is this a copyright infringement ? > > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 18:52 Miles Fidelman < > mfidel...@meetinghouse.net> ha scritto: > >> Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS >> running on another BSD. >> >> >> >> Mario Marietto wrote: >> >> How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of >> the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but >> not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. >> >> Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton < >> noloa...@gmail.com> ha scritto: >> >>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? >>> >>> That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of >>> userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or used >>> to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. >>> >>> I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They >>> finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error >>> code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video >>> with an old Mac saying it... >>> >>> Also >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ >>> and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . >>> >>> Jeff >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mario. >> >> >> >> -- >> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. >> In practice, there is. Yogi Berra >> >> Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. >> Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. >> In our lab, theory and practice are combined: >> nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown >> >> > > -- > Mario. > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
There is a fresh project, a couple of years old and in development, about a linux distro,if I remember correctly,or maybe it is based on BSD,with the goal to run the apple's software and it has the graphical interface which looks the same as the MacOSX. Does anyone remember the name ? The advantage is to not infringe any apple's copyright for sure. I'm not sure but if the system is different from the MacOSX but it offers the advantage to run the original apple's tools,is this a copyright infringement ? Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 18:52 Miles Fidelman < mfidel...@meetinghouse.net> ha scritto: > Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS > running on another BSD. > > > > Mario Marietto wrote: > > How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of > the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but > not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. > > Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton < > noloa...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto >> wrote: >> > >> > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? >> >> That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of >> userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or used >> to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. >> >> I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They >> finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error >> code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video >> with an old Mac saying it... >> >> Also >> https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ >> and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . >> >> Jeff >> > > > -- > Mario. > > > > -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > In practice, there is. Yogi Berra > > Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. > Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. > In our lab, theory and practice are combined: > nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Mario Marietto wrote: > How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of > the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but > not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. I don't know why you'd want to do that. Nobody thinks (as far as I know) that the great thing about Apple products is the structure of their OS. It would be a lot of effort. In the best case, you would end up with something that didn't run Mac OS software, didn't run Linux software, didn't run *BSD software, and had all the bugs and lack of support of any new OS. -dsr-
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Well... that would basically be MacOS, or a GUI that looks like MacOS running on another BSD. Mario Marietto wrote: How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton mailto:noloa...@gmail.com>> ha scritto: On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto mailto:marietto2...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or used to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video with an old Mac saying it... Also https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . Jeff -- Mario. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 3:36 AM Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the privacy of > their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a public mailing > list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only upon themselves but on > others and the project at large. If you're referring to me as the OP, I never planned to use macOS without a license, and I do pay attention to EULAs. I'm in the research phase of finding the cheapest way to provide open source testing for our Mac using brothers and sisters. I have tried it on my old mac mini and I personally do not like it. -Tom
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the privacy of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a public mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only upon themselves but on others and the project at large. Haven't tried it recently. It used to be possible. But it's a LOT easier to run Debian (and other, including MacOS) VMs on a Mac. Works just great under Parallels - and, in the past, I've done it using Virtual Box & VMware. Going the other way leads into both licensing issues, and boot issues. Miles Fidelman (typing on a Mac, which is BSD Unix underneath, sending via a server running Debian in a VM over Xen, with Dom0 also being Debian - meanwhile, there are several Windows & Linux VMs on this Mac - not running at the moment, but they run native speed when they are). -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
How difficult will it be to create a BSD system with the look and feel of the MacOSX ? I mean,not only based on aesthetics,but more structural,but not so much structural to incite the apple's lawyers. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 17:41 Jeffrey Walton ha scritto: > On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 11:10 AM Mario Marietto > wrote: > > > > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? > > That's a good question. The Darwin kernel is XNU. But a lot of > userland code is BSD. In fact, a lot of Apple's man pages say (or used > to say) they are for BSD. See attached for the codesign man page. > > I remember around the time that Apple adopted the Mach kernel. They > finally got a memory manager! No more "It's not my fault" and error > code 8 (iirc). I am kind of surprised I can't find a YouTube video > with an old Mac saying it... > > Also > https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/1mix5h/id_like_the_differences_in_darwin_and_freebsd/ > and see https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu . > > Jeff > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Mario Marietto wrote: > How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? Nobody outside Apple knows. BSD licenses require attribution, not availability. -dsr-
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
How much FreeBSD code is inside the MacOSX code today ? Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 16:49 Martin Smith < t...@smithproductions.co.uk> ha scritto: > On 22/11/2022 13:44, hede wrote: > > > >>> Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open > source > >>> kind of MacOS clone, > > > > CentOS was derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux and was mostly > > compatible to RHEL. > > "May God rest its soul." > > > >>> and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I > >>> had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of > clone, > >>> is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - > open > >>> source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. > >>> > >>> So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to > >>> running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. > >> > >> If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is > >> just linking to the source code for open source components used in > >> their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but > >> the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and > >> cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms > >> and / or applicable law. > > > > Darwin is the core of modern Apple OSes. It is Open Source and POSIX > > compatible. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) > > > > But there are plenty of Closed Source parts missing to form either macOS > > or iOS from it. Both - macOS and iOS - are proprietary OSes where you > > have strict license terms to fulfill to use it. One of them is - AFAIK > > - buying Apple Hardware and running the OS only on Apples Hardware. > > > MacOSX was originally based on FREEBSD which at the time probably about > 15 years ago I was using BSD for servers in offices and I remember one > of the senior developers in BSD land went to work for Apple, I can > remember my delight when I discovered I could summon vi in a terminal on > a mac > > -- > Martin > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 22/11/2022 13:44, hede wrote: Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open source kind of MacOS clone, CentOS was derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux and was mostly compatible to RHEL. "May God rest its soul." and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of clone, is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - open source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is just linking to the source code for open source components used in their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms and / or applicable law. Darwin is the core of modern Apple OSes. It is Open Source and POSIX compatible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) But there are plenty of Closed Source parts missing to form either macOS or iOS from it. Both - macOS and iOS - are proprietary OSes where you have strict license terms to fulfill to use it. One of them is - AFAIK - buying Apple Hardware and running the OS only on Apples Hardware. MacOSX was originally based on FREEBSD which at the time probably about 15 years ago I was using BSD for servers in offices and I remember one of the senior developers in BSD land went to work for Apple, I can remember my delight when I discovered I could summon vi in a terminal on a mac -- Martin
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
I used Linux most of the time for many years and I use it even today for a lot of time,but from two years ago I've started studying and learning FreeBSD and I should say that It satisfies me like linux. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 15:23 Bret Busby ha scritto: > On 22/11/2022 21:44, hede wrote: > > > >>> Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open > source > >>> kind of MacOS clone, > > > > CentOS was derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux and was mostly > > compatible to RHEL. > > "May God rest its soul." > > > >>> and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I > >>> had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of > clone, > >>> is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - > open > >>> source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. > >>> > >>> So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to > >>> running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. > >> > >> If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is > >> just linking to the source code for open source components used in > >> their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but > >> the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and > >> cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms > >> and / or applicable law. > > > > Darwin is the core of modern Apple OSes. It is Open Source and POSIX > > compatible. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) > > > > But there are plenty of Closed Source parts missing to form either macOS > > or iOS from it. Both - macOS and iOS - are proprietary OSes where you > > have strict license terms to fulfill to use it. One of them is - AFAIK > > - buying Apple Hardware and running the OS only on Apples Hardware. > > > > hede > > > > > All the more reason to run only Linux. > > :) > > .. > Bret Busby > Armadale > West Australia > (UTC+0800) > .. > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 22/11/2022 21:44, hede wrote: Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open source kind of MacOS clone, CentOS was derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux and was mostly compatible to RHEL. "May God rest its soul." and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of clone, is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - open source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is just linking to the source code for open source components used in their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms and / or applicable law. Darwin is the core of modern Apple OSes. It is Open Source and POSIX compatible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) But there are plenty of Closed Source parts missing to form either macOS or iOS from it. Both - macOS and iOS - are proprietary OSes where you have strict license terms to fulfill to use it. One of them is - AFAIK - buying Apple Hardware and running the OS only on Apples Hardware. hede All the more reason to run only Linux. :) .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open source kind of MacOS clone, CentOS was derived from Red Hat Enterprise Linux and was mostly compatible to RHEL. "May God rest its soul." and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of clone, is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - open source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is just linking to the source code for open source components used in their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms and / or applicable law. Darwin is the core of modern Apple OSes. It is Open Source and POSIX compatible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) But there are plenty of Closed Source parts missing to form either macOS or iOS from it. Both - macOS and iOS - are proprietary OSes where you have strict license terms to fulfill to use it. One of them is - AFAIK - buying Apple Hardware and running the OS only on Apples Hardware. hede
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:12:28 +0800 Bret Busby wrote: > On 22/11/2022 17:35, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > > > >>> > >>> Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > >> > >> Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS > >> on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). > > > > Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the privacy > > of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a public > > mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only upon > > themselves but on others and the project at large. > > > > Peter > I am wondering, in the context of the content at > https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ > whether licence restrictions apply. > > Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open source > kind of MacOS clone, and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I > had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of clone, > is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - open > source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. > > So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to > running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. If you click through the links on that page, it looks like Apple is just linking to the source code for open source components used in their operating systems (things like awk, bash, bind, bzip, etc.), but the operating systems themselves are certainly not open source, and cannot be legally used except in accordance with Apple's license terms and / or applicable law. -- Celejar
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Sometime ago I've bought an old mac mini,so I have the Apple hardware,man. Please don't be rude. Il giorno mar 22 nov 2022 alle ore 13:04 Peter von Kaehne ha scritto: > > > Open your mind. > > Do as you like, but please do it elsewhere. > > > >> Most people don't read EULAs. >> >> I have long decided that programmes with EULAs are programmes to avoid as > much as possible. > > Peter > > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
> Open your mind. Do as you like, but please do it elsewhere. > >> >> Most people don't read EULAs. >> I have long decided that programmes with EULAs are programmes to avoid as much as possible. Peter
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 22/11/2022 17:35, Peter von Kaehne wrote: Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the privacy of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a public mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only upon themselves but on others and the project at large. Peter I am wondering, in the context of the content at https://opensource.apple.com/releases/ whether licence restrictions apply. Whilst I had mistakenly believed that CentOS was a freeware, open source kind of MacOS clone, and found that it is not, when I searched for it, I had understood that a freeware, open source kind of MacOS kind of clone, is available, and, when I searched on the three word combination - open source macos - I found, in the results, the above URL. So, as an observer, I wonder whether licencing restrictions apply, to running MacOS on Linux, as a virtual machine. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) ..
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
or. To learn is more important than to respect a rule that sounds so un
useful for the peoples inside the private home. I would agree to respect it
for the compnanies and the projects which involves money and business, but
that rules goes against the creativty and the willing to know how things
works under the hood. everyone knows how much important is to experiment,to
break some rules and some schemas to invent,to create new opportunities.
macos and windows were born inside the basements of the private houses. Do
you really think that they respected every rule on '70s ? come on. Open
your mind. Respecting every rule does not produce innovation and...does not
even help to create great products. Mine is not an invitation to break
every rule,but to balance carefully what should be respected because is
important to which could avoid if it does not help the circulation of new
ideas and knowledge.
Il mar 22 nov 2022, 11:07 Brad Rogers ha scritto:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:35:59 +
> Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> >Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the
> >privacy of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a
> >public mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only
> >upon themselves but on others and the project at large.
>
> Alternatively, you could interpret the arrival of the OP's request as a
> result of the fact that;
>
> Most people don't read EULAs.
>
> --
> Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
> / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
> / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
> You destroyed my confidence, you broke my nerve
> Nervous Wreck - Radio Stars
>
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:35:59 +
Peter von Kaehne wrote:
Hello Peter,
>Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the
>privacy of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a
>public mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only
>upon themselves but on others and the project at large.
Alternatively, you could interpret the arrival of the OP's request as a
result of the fact that;
Most people don't read EULAs.
--
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
You destroyed my confidence, you broke my nerve
Nervous Wreck - Radio Stars
pgpSxC5f2pFfu.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
>> >> Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > > Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS > on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). Which, while it might not stop anyone doing what they like in the privacy of their own home, should be ample reason not to take it to a public mailing list. Postings just as the OP reflect badly not only upon themselves but on others and the project at large. Peter
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
lOn Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 16:20 Mario Marietto wrote: > > Hello Tom. If you want to have all the best … That’s pretty much what I remember this group said about Windows, too. On IRC #raku the folks are concerned about needing a mac license which I respect. Thanks, Mario. -Tom
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Hello Tom. If you want to have all the best features all around when you want to virtualize an OS,don't use virtualbox or vmware. Qemu + kvm will give you the better options. Depending on your graphic card,with the proper settings (on debian and on the qemu-kvm side) you can passthru one of your graphic cards from the host os (debian) to the guest os (it works better with an AMD card). Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 22:09 Keith Bainbridge < keith.bainbridge.3...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > On 22/11/22 07:34, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:36 PM Tom Browder > wrote: > >> > >> I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > instructions I've received on this list. > >> > >> Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > > > > Years ago I ran a Hackintosh VM with a Linux host over x86_64 . I > > think it was running on Ubuntu with VirtualBox. > > > > My need for Hackintosh went away a long time ago because I bought the > > real Apple product after a few years. > > > > Jeff > > > > Good morning Tom > > Last time I tried running osX in vbox, I was told I had to use the > server version of osX, which I didn't have. Apple may have changed that, > but > > The vbox new guest button takes you through the set-up pretty straight > forwardly. The only thing I change is the RAM allocation. Although > somebody here said a year or 3 ago that the defaults are there because > they work best. > -- > All the best > > Keith Bainbridge > > keithrbaugro...@gmail.com > > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On 22/11/22 07:34, Jeffrey Walton wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:36 PM Tom Browder wrote: I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following instructions I've received on this list. Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Years ago I ran a Hackintosh VM with a Linux host over x86_64 . I think it was running on Ubuntu with VirtualBox. My need for Hackintosh went away a long time ago because I bought the real Apple product after a few years. Jeff Good morning Tom Last time I tried running osX in vbox, I was told I had to use the server version of osX, which I didn't have. Apple may have changed that, but The vbox new guest button takes you through the set-up pretty straight forwardly. The only thing I change is the RAM allocation. Although somebody here said a year or 3 ago that the defaults are there because they work best. -- All the best Keith Bainbridge keithrbaugro...@gmail.com
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 2:36 PM Tom Browder wrote: > > I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > instructions I've received on this list. > > Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Years ago I ran a Hackintosh VM with a Linux host over x86_64 . I think it was running on Ubuntu with VirtualBox. My need for Hackintosh went away a long time ago because I bought the real Apple product after a few years. Jeff
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Tom Browder writes: > I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > instructions I've received on this list. > > Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > Apart technical issues, there is licence which AFAIK forbids run MacOS on non-Apple hardware (regardless if it is bare metal or VM). The only exception is (was?) emacos server. Please correct me if I am wrong. KJ -- http://wolnelektury.pl/wesprzyj/teraz/
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
https://snapcraft.io/install/sosumi/debian Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 21:11 Tom Browder ha scritto: > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 14:01 Mario Marietto > wrote: > >> Hello. What's the problem ? It's not hard at all. You can use a lot of >> techniques. You can use virtualbox or vmware or qemu+kvm + sosumi... >> > > Thanks, Mario. Is there more of a cookbook recipe available? I'm not real > familiar with anything but VirtualBox, and I haven't used that for years. > > -Tom > -- Mario.
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 14:01 Mario Marietto wrote: > Hello. What's the problem ? It's not hard at all. You can use a lot of > techniques. You can use virtualbox or vmware or qemu+kvm + sosumi... > Thanks, Mario. Is there more of a cookbook recipe available? I'm not real familiar with anything but VirtualBox, and I haven't used that for years. -Tom
Re: MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
Hello. What's the problem ? It's not hard at all. You can use a lot of techniques. You can use virtualbox or vmware or qemu+kvm + sosumi... Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 20:36 Tom Browder ha scritto: > I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following > instructions I've received on this list. > > Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? > > Thanks, > > -Tom > -- Mario.
MacOS VM on Debian: is it reasonably possible?
I'm going to try to run Win 10 as a VM on my new Deb box following instructions I've received on this list. Has anyone been able to run a recent version of MacOS as a VM? Thanks, -Tom
