Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:30:41AM +0100, Lisi wrote: Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free See Debian Reference on Debian site which should be displaying such number scanned last night :-) I just updated. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#listofdebianarchivearea area number of packages main38064 contrib 231 non-free 508 This is for upcoming wheezy :) I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. Off by half Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121019151512.GA21775@goofy.localdomain
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 02:36:43PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Ma, 16 oct 12, 14:00:10, Andrei POPESCU wrote: $ aptitude search ~Astable | wc -l 43004 $ aptitude search ~Astable~scontrib | wc -l 271 $ aptitude search ~Astable~snon-free | wc -l 583 Oups, 'stable' will also match 'unstable', so the correct search (also excluding non-Debian sources) is: $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian' | wc -l 28875 $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian~scontrib' | wc -l 189 $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian~snon-free' | wc -l 408 My numbers are still a bit bigger than the count from the Packages file, but don't know why (it doesn't seem to be due to virtual packages). I think your number is about right for squeeze. Debian FAQ package number is not scripted. So needs to file bug report to package. Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121019152347.GB21775@goofy.localdomain
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 08:01:59, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk
wrote:
According to my reading of the manual:
aptitude search '~smain'
and
aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free'
should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the
first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today.
Because ~s (?section()) doesn't correspond to main/contrib/non-free.
In theory true, but in practice:
$ apt-cache show nvidia-glx | grep ^Section
Section: non-free/x11
This means a search for contrib or non-free with ~s will succeed, but
not for for main, since packages in main don't advertise the archive
component in the Section field.
Thanks for the correction. Although I consider this a cheat or a bonus
depending on the point of view, it's a practical one because AFAIR
dpkg-query doesn't have a ${Archive} option.
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Number of Debian packages available.
Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. Thanks, Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210161130.41942.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available. ERRATUM
On Tuesday 16 October 2012 11:30:41 Lisi wrote: Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free many, not may :-( Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210161141.31671.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:30:41 +0100 Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. Thanks, Lisi Maybe from Synaptic? It lists a total of packages it can fetch in the bottom left corner. I have all three archives active + backports, testing and unstable and Synaptic reports 43132 packages is available. But the question might be, what's a package, and what's a libary? Just my thoughts though. Cheers :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121016124601.0f492...@asrock.local.aptget.dk
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue 16 Oct 2012 at 11:30:41 +0100, Lisi wrote: I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have only the line deb your_mirror squeeze non-free Then apt-get update and look at the output. Add contrib to the line above and repeat, Do the same with main added. Do sums. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2012101610.GG4530@desktop
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
This can be answered (by a developer) using UDD - http://wiki.debian.org/UltimateDebianDatabase The answer today is udd= select count(*),release from public.packages group by release; count | release +-- 2 | wheezy-security 272170 | wheezy 189517 | squeeze 298810 | sid 13816 | squeeze-backports 8712 | squeeze-security 34908 | experimental 746 | wheezy-proposed-updates 372 | squeeze-updates 625 | squeeze-proposed-updates (10 rows) or source packages udd= select count(*),release from public.sources group by release; count | release ---+-- 1 | wheezy-security 17867 | wheezy 14969 | squeeze 18854 | sid 599 | squeeze-backports 207 | squeeze-security 1007 | experimental 16 | wheezy-proposed-updates 6 | squeeze-updates 9 | squeeze-proposed-updates (10 rows) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121016105634.GB15436@debian
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:46:01PM +0200, Titanus Eramius wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:30:41 +0100 Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. According to my reading of the manual: aptitude search '~smain' and aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free' should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today. Maybe from Synaptic? It lists a total of packages it can fetch in the bottom left corner. I have all three archives active + backports, testing and unstable and Synaptic reports 43132 packages is available. But the question might be, what's a package, and what's a libary? Just my thoughts though. Everything's a package, though it'd make sense to remove virtual packages from the list. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 11:30:41, Lisi wrote: Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free Source or binary packages? If you consider source packages then Open Office counts as one package, but if you consider binary packages it will be a lot more (especially since Debian Maintainers have the good habit of splitting big packages to accommodate various use cases. I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. http://www.debian.org/intro/about mentions over 29000. aptitude gets me 43004 binary packages for squeeze (i386, of which contrib 271 and non-free 583) so those should be source packages: $ aptitude search ~Astable | wc -l 43004 $ aptitude search ~Astable~scontrib | wc -l 271 $ aptitude search ~Astable~snon-free | wc -l 583 (~s works because the archive component is part of the section name for packages not in main) Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On 16/10/12 11:30, Lisi wrote: Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) From doing: for i in main contrib non-free; do echo $i:; curl -s ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/$i/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2 | bunzip2 -c | grep Package: | sort -u | wc -l ;done I get: main: 28128 contrib: 182 non-free: 383 All a bit unscientific, but it might suit your needs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/507d3e97.1060...@deathbycomputers.co.uk
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 11:56:34, Jon Dowland wrote: This can be answered (by a developer) using UDD - http://wiki.debian.org/UltimateDebianDatabase The answer today is udd= select count(*),release from public.packages group by release; count | release +-- 2 | wheezy-security 272170 | wheezy 189517 | squeeze 298810 | sid 13816 | squeeze-backports 8712 | squeeze-security 34908 | experimental 746 | wheezy-proposed-updates 372 | squeeze-updates 625 | squeeze-proposed-updates (10 rows) The numbers are too big in my opinion, is this maybe for all architectures? or source packages udd= select count(*),release from public.sources group by release; count | release ---+-- 1 | wheezy-security 17867 | wheezy 14969 | squeeze 18854 | sid 599 | squeeze-backports 207 | squeeze-security 1007 | experimental 16 | wheezy-proposed-updates 6 | squeeze-updates 9 | squeeze-proposed-updates (10 rows) Only main? Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tuesday 16 October 2012 11:46:01 Titanus Eramius wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:30:41 +0100 Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, all! I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free I have an idea of roughly 20,000 in my head, but cannot remember why I think it and it may be vastly out. Nor into which of my two categories the figure falls, if by any miracle it is correct. Thanks, Lisi Maybe from Synaptic? It lists a total of packages it can fetch in the bottom left corner. I have all three archives active + backports, testing and unstable and Synaptic reports 43132 packages is available. Thanks! That is exactly what I wanted to know. I have not got Synaptic installed, since I prefer the command line for package management. Perhaps the information is also available in aptitude's n-curses interface. I didn't think to look. :-( There is also probably a command line way to do it in either apt-get or aptitude. I just don't know it. :-( But the question might be, what's a package, and what's a libary? Just my thoughts though. D'oh! I had thought (or rather, clearly not thought) that for present purposes that wasn't all that significant. Though come to think of it, that may be why I had the figure of 20,000 in my head. Applications and not libraries. So I asked the wrong question anyway. Thanks for all the pointers! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210161204.57282.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tuesday 16 October 2012 11:55:55 Brian wrote: On Tue 16 Oct 2012 at 11:30:41 +0100, Lisi wrote: I have searched Wikipedia and the Debian wiki. I have Googled. I am clearly using the wrong search terms, although I tried rewording in sundry different ways. Approximately, in round terms, how may packages are available in Debian (Squeeze?) 1. in main 2. in main, contrib and non-free Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have only the line deb your_mirror squeeze non-free Then apt-get update and look at the output. Add contrib to the line above and repeat, Do the same with main added. Do sums. Thanks! Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210161206.17192.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 14:00:10, Andrei POPESCU wrote: $ aptitude search ~Astable | wc -l 43004 $ aptitude search ~Astable~scontrib | wc -l 271 $ aptitude search ~Astable~snon-free | wc -l 583 Oups, 'stable' will also match 'unstable', so the correct search (also excluding non-Debian sources) is: $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian' | wc -l 28875 $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian~scontrib' | wc -l 189 $ aptitude search '~A^stable~ODebian~snon-free' | wc -l 408 My numbers are still a bit bigger than the count from the Packages file, but don't know why (it doesn't seem to be due to virtual packages). Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote: According to my reading of the manual: aptitude search '~smain' and aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free' should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today. Because ~s (?section()) doesn't correspond to main/contrib/non-free. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=Sygz=MNAT_u1JGwYf5YOR=stm=Rzg=_qy0cdk=_sbp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 08:01:59AM -0400, Tom H wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote: According to my reading of the manual: aptitude search '~smain' and aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free' should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today. Because ~s (?section()) doesn't correspond to main/contrib/non-free. What does, then? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 08:01:59AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk
wrote:
According to my reading of the manual:
aptitude search '~smain'
and
aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free'
should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the
first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today.
Because ~s (?section()) doesn't correspond to main/contrib/non-free.
What does, then?
(Andrei uses this search term in his replies)
~A (?archive())
You can see the section to which a package belongs (utils in this
case) if you request that information when specifying a format for the
output of aptitude or dpkg-query, for example:
[th@localhost:~]$ dpkg-query -W
-f='${Package}\t${Section}\t${Version}\n' util-linux
util-linux utils 2.20.1-5.2
[th@localhost:~]$ aptitude search -F '%p %s %t %v' util-linux
util-linux utils
testing 2.20.1-5.2
util-linux-locales utils
testing none
[th@localhost:~]$ aptitude search -F '%p %s %t %v' util-linux\$
util-linux utils
testing 2.20.1-5.2
[th@localhost:~]$
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Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue 16 Oct 2012 at 12:06:17 +0100, Lisi wrote: On Tuesday 16 October 2012 11:55:55 Brian wrote: Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have only the line deb your_mirror squeeze non-free Then apt-get update and look at the output. Add contrib to the line above and repeat, Do the same with main added. Do sums. Thanks! Without the faffing about with getting a root prompt and using an editor: cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section:' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: non-free' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: contrib' | wc -l 28,795, 403 and 187 respectively for me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121016125921.GH4530@desktop
Re: Number of Debian packages available. and thank you to everyone.
On Tuesday 16 October 2012 13:59:21 Brian wrote: On Tue 16 Oct 2012 at 12:06:17 +0100, Lisi wrote: On Tuesday 16 October 2012 11:55:55 Brian wrote: Edit your /etc/apt/sources.list to have only the line deb your_mirror squeeze non-free Then apt-get update and look at the output. Add contrib to the line above and repeat, Do the same with main added. Do sums. Thanks! Without the faffing about with getting a root prompt and using an editor: cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section:' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: non-free' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: contrib' | wc -l 28,795, 403 and 187 respectively for me. That's terrific! Thanks, Brian. Thanks all of you for your informative and helpful replies. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210161416.25887.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:59:21 +0100 Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: Without the faffing about with getting a root prompt and using an editor: cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section:' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: non-free' | wc -l cat /var/lib/dpkg/available | grep '^Section: contrib' | wc -l 28,795, 403 and 187 respectively for me. The first one gives me 926 on an amd64 X-less squeeze server, which is around the number of installed packages. sources.list: deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main non-free contrib deb-src http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main non-free contrib deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free # squeeze-updates, previously known as 'volatile' deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free 'apt-cache stats' from the same machine gives: Total package names: 37481 (750 k) Total package structures: 37481 (2,099 k) Normal packages: 28432 Pure virtual packages: 390 Single virtual packages: 3261 Mixed virtual packages: 258 Missing: 5140 Total distinct versions: 28904 (2,081 k) Total distinct descriptions: 28904 (694 k) Total dependencies: 177309 (4,965 k) Total ver/file relations: 30947 (743 k) Total Desc/File relations: 28904 (694 k) Total Provides mappings: 5838 (117 k) Total globbed strings: 133 (1,465 ) Total dependency version space: 734 k Total slack space: 49.2 k Total space accounted for: 10.1 M Being X-less, there's no Synaptic, however on my sid workstation, Synaptic reports '39614 packages listed' as being the sum of stats' 'Normal packages' and 'Mixed virtual packages', which would be 28,690 here. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121016161523.0f3f1...@jretrading.com
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
FWIW tons of packages doesn't mean tons of apps etc., since of the strange policy to split some packages in an insane way, e.g. the jackd packages are split really insane. Or does any package depend to libjack without jackd? And if so, why? There often is the argument that shared libs will keep a system small, but bad hard dependencies often enlarge a system. On Arch there e.g. is a dependency to systemd. I use intitscripts, not systemd, but have got systemd installed. On Debian for example there's a hard dependency to pulseaudio for some apps, even if it's completely useless. And FWIW, meta-packages only summarize some other packages, so the count of packages gives information about big nothing. 2 Cents, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1350401659.1236.66.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 08:01:59, Tom H wrote: On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM, Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote: According to my reading of the manual: aptitude search '~smain' and aptitude search '~smain|~scontrib|~snon-free' should give you the answers you seek, however, I seem to get 0 for the first and only 626 for the second, so my search-fu is failing me today. Because ~s (?section()) doesn't correspond to main/contrib/non-free. In theory true, but in practice: $ apt-cache show nvidia-glx | grep ^Section Section: non-free/x11 This means a search for contrib or non-free with ~s will succeed, but not for for main, since packages in main don't advertise the archive component in the Section field. Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 17:34:19, Ralf Mardorf wrote: FWIW tons of packages doesn't mean tons of apps etc., since of the strange policy to split some packages in an insane way, e.g. the jackd packages are split really insane. Or does any package depend to libjack without jackd? And if so, why? Why should every application *capable* of outputting to jackd force one to install jackd? There often is the argument that shared libs will keep a system small, but bad hard dependencies often enlarge a system. On Arch there e.g. is a dependency to systemd. I use intitscripts, not systemd, but have got systemd installed. On Debian for example there's a hard dependency to pulseaudio for some apps, even if it's completely useless. Care to provide some examples? Looking through the reverse dependencies of the package 'pulseaudio' the only strange one is kde-telepathy-call-ui. If you meant dependency to libpulse, then the answer is the same as for jackd. And FWIW, meta-packages only summarize some other packages, so the count of packages gives information about big nothing. We don't know anything about Lisi's use case, so this is maybe a bit premature? Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 18:56 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Ma, 16 oct 12, 17:34:19, Ralf Mardorf wrote: FWIW tons of packages doesn't mean tons of apps etc., since of the strange policy to split some packages in an insane way, e.g. the jackd packages are split really insane. Or does any package depend to libjack without jackd? And if so, why? Why should every application *capable* of outputting to jackd force one to install jackd? Jackd could be a suggested dependency, if you don't use jackd, why should the app link against the lib? The app should link against it, as soon as you configure the app to use jackd and than you need jackd completely, not only the lib. There often is the argument that shared libs will keep a system small, but bad hard dependencies often enlarge a system. On Arch there e.g. is a dependency to systemd. I use intitscripts, not systemd, but have got systemd installed. On Debian for example there's a hard dependency to pulseaudio for some apps, even if it's completely useless. Care to provide some examples? Looking through the reverse dependencies of the package 'pulseaudio' the only strange one is kde-telepathy-call-ui. If you meant dependency to libpulse, then the answer is the same as for jackd. Ok, I only know one GNOME package, but to use GNOME you need this package. And FWIW, meta-packages only summarize some other packages, so the count of packages gives information about big nothing. We don't know anything about Lisi's use case, so this is maybe a bit premature? Yesno. I also like to hear about the count of packages, but this information is nearly useless. Regards, Ralf -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1350405860.1236.115.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 18:44:20, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Why should every application *capable* of outputting to jackd force one to install jackd? Jackd could be a suggested dependency, if you don't use jackd, why should the app link against the lib? The app should link against it, as soon as you configure the app to use jackd and than you need jackd completely, not only the lib. As far as I know (not my area of expertise, but I have been struggling to compile XBMC for my Raspberry Pi recently), such capabilities are compile time options. When you compile an application with output capability to jackd and/or pulseaudio the corresponding library becomes a hard dependency (i.e. the application may even crash if the library is not installed). Or would you expect regular users to recompile applications just to choose between plain alsa, pulseaudio or jackd output? Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Tue, 2012-10-16 at 20:10 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: On Ma, 16 oct 12, 18:44:20, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Why should every application *capable* of outputting to jackd force one to install jackd? Jackd could be a suggested dependency, if you don't use jackd, why should the app link against the lib? The app should link against it, as soon as you configure the app to use jackd and than you need jackd completely, not only the lib. As far as I know (not my area of expertise, but I have been struggling to compile XBMC for my Raspberry Pi recently), such capabilities are compile time options. When you compile an application with output capability to jackd and/or pulseaudio the corresponding library becomes a hard dependency (i.e. the application may even crash if the library is not installed). Or would you expect regular users to recompile applications just to choose between plain alsa, pulseaudio or jackd output? No, compiling shouldn't be needed. This is a discussion we very often had on jack mailing list, when split packages failed. I don't know why an app should crash, as long as it doesn't try to access the missing lib. It might crash, I don't know, but it should be possible to get an app without jackd support and to load jackd support as a plugin or something like that. There was a mail about Iceweasel and language support some minutes ago. All language packages get installed by default, so they could become one package. Ok, it's possible to remove them manually, after installing, pff, it's also possible to delete the files manually after installing ;). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1350408142.1236.135.camel@localhost.localdomain
Re: Number of Debian packages available.
On Ma, 16 oct 12, 19:22:22, Ralf Mardorf wrote: No, compiling shouldn't be needed. This is a discussion we very often had on jack mailing list, when split packages failed. I don't know why an app should crash, as long as it doesn't try to access the missing lib. It might crash, I don't know, but it should be possible to get an app without jackd support and to load jackd support as a plugin or something like that. Yes, but that depends on how the application is written. Some use plugins (vlc), others have compile time options (mplayer, XBMC). Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
