Re: Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[tomas]

On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:59:49AM +0200, Kamil Jońca wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de writes:

[...]

> > and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager
> > or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let
> > them do.
> 
> About year ago none of them was able to handle my config.
> (Some interfaces used by vms , and proper snat for them.)

I've supported those only for pretty bog standard setups. Mainly end users
who have to cope with longer stretches without local friendly hackers.

I don't believe they are useful for special situations or knowledgeable
users.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Kamil Jońca]

to...@tuxteam.de writes:

> On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:30:27AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
> [following up on myself, bad style, I know]
>
>> For my laptop, I very much prefer to say "sudo ifup eth0" than to
>> say "sudo ifup en0ps&&@*#!☠" thankyouverymuch :)
>
> and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager
> or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let
> them do.

About year ago none of them was able to handle my config.
(Some interfaces used by vms , and proper snat for them.)


KJ

-- 
http://wolnelektury.pl/wesprzyj/teraz/

Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[tomas]

On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:30:27AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[following up on myself, bad style, I know]

> For my laptop, I very much prefer to say "sudo ifup eth0" than to
> say "sudo ifup en0ps&&@*#!☠" thankyouverymuch :)

and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager
or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let
them do.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[tomas]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 03:16:41PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 09:01:44PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > Mine loks like this:
> > 
> >   GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet net.ifnames=0"
> 
> People who are thinking of doing this should take a moment to consider
> whether it will be better or worse than the default.

Absolutely. I did, and I decided that in my case, this is the better
choice...

> For a machine that has exactly one ethernet interface, this is a vast
> improvement over the default.  Your interface will always be named
> "eth0" no matter what crazy things happen on the PCI bus.

...but it's not always, as you say.

> For a machine with multiple interfaces, however, the original problem
> that "predictable interface names" were supposed to solve is still an
> issue.  The kernel may not assign the names in the same order every
> time you boot.  In that situation, "net.ifnames=0" is not likely to
> be an improvement.  You'd be better off using systemd.link(5) files to
> customize your interface names according to your own specific needs.

I think PCI is not the worst offender. The worst is if you have a bunch
of adapters hanging off an USB tree. Then, as they say, God does play
dice :-)

Back Then (TM) (I think it was a Debian 3.x aka Sarge), a bunch of
us cobbled a "router thingy" together on some off-the-shelf hardware.
It had four Ethernets hanging off whatever PC bus was fashionable
back then (too lazy to look it up).

Not many of those were sold, luckily :-)

One was for "the bad Internet", the other three for "the inside".
Our big fear was that, after a BIOS upgrade the interfaces would
come up in a mangled order. That would have been a good application
of this scheme (provided it works at all: I'm somewhat sceptic.
Hardware and firmware are known to do... things).

We ended up going by the card's MAC addresses, at the price of
having a set up step on assembly. But then, if you change one
Ethernet card...

Alas, you can't do it right.

For my laptop, I very much prefer to say "sudo ifup eth0" than to
say "sudo ifup en0ps&&@*#!☠" thankyouverymuch :)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[debian-user]

Richard  wrote:
> Good catch. With the title of this thread and not seeing any proper
> description of what's actually wrong on GitHub, I figured the change
> of the adapter name was meant. Yes, with MAC randomization, that's
> what you'll get. But it's nothing Debian defaults to. So question is,
> can this be disabled on Proxmox? But with this hint, it should be
> easy enough to figure out if this can be deactivated on the affected
> systems, and if not the bug reports must be against these issues, as
> Debian itself doesn't do such things. If it is an issue with Debian
> preventing the disablement, the devs need to talk to each other.
> 
> Richard
> 
> Am Mi., 12. Juni 2024 um 17:10 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton <
> noloa...@gmail.com>:  
> 
> > The random MAC address discussed in the bug report (with mention of
> > Network Manager) could be
> > <
> > https://blogs.gnome.org/thaller/2016/08/26/mac-address-spoofing-in-networkmanager-1-4-0/
> >   
> > >.  
> >
> > Jeff

I think before anybody else suggests anything, they should read
https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/20240326092459.gg403...@kernel.org/T/

Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 09:01:44PM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> No need. You can have your traditional names (I do). Just add
> "net.ifnames=0" (if necessry separated by a space, should
> other stuff be already there) to your GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
> in your /etc/default/grub, then ru update-grub.
> 
> Mine loks like this:
> 
>   GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet net.ifnames=0"

People who are thinking of doing this should take a moment to consider
whether it will be better or worse than the default.

For a machine that has exactly one ethernet interface, this is a vast
improvement over the default.  Your interface will always be named
"eth0" no matter what crazy things happen on the PCI bus.

For a machine with multiple interfaces, however, the original problem
that "predictable interface names" were supposed to solve is still an
issue.  The kernel may not assign the names in the same order every
time you boot.  In that situation, "net.ifnames=0" is not likely to
be an improvement.  You'd be better off using systemd.link(5) files to
customize your interface names according to your own specific needs.

> > > https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames

Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[tomas]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 02:30:40PM -0400, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 June 2024 06:54:54 am Richard wrote:
> > But also, just
> > searching the web for this topic, you should have come across this
> > answering your questions: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames
> > 
> 
> Wow.  Just wow...
> 
> That sort of thing just drives me crazy!  :-)
> 
> I can see sticking with older versions of some things.

No need. You can have your traditional names (I do). Just add
"net.ifnames=0" (if necessry separated by a space, should
other stuff be already there) to your GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
in your /etc/default/grub, then ru update-grub.

Mine loks like this:

  GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet net.ifnames=0"

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Roy J. Tellason, Sr.]

On Wednesday 12 June 2024 06:54:54 am Richard wrote:
> But also, just
> searching the web for this topic, you should have come across this
> answering your questions: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames
> 

Wow.  Just wow...

That sort of thing just drives me crazy!  :-)

I can see sticking with older versions of some things.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Richard]

Good catch. With the title of this thread and not seeing any proper
description of what's actually wrong on GitHub, I figured the change of the
adapter name was meant. Yes, with MAC randomization, that's what you'll
get. But it's nothing Debian defaults to. So question is, can this be
disabled on Proxmox? But with this hint, it should be easy enough to figure
out if this can be deactivated on the affected systems, and if not the bug
reports must be against these issues, as Debian itself doesn't do such
things. If it is an issue with Debian preventing the disablement, the devs
need to talk to each other.

Richard

Am Mi., 12. Juni 2024 um 17:10 Uhr schrieb Jeffrey Walton <
noloa...@gmail.com>:

> The random MAC address discussed in the bug report (with mention of
> Network Manager) could be
> <
> https://blogs.gnome.org/thaller/2016/08/26/mac-address-spoofing-in-networkmanager-1-4-0/
> >.
>
> Jeff
>

Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 10:33 AM Richard  wrote:
>
> Question is, does it make that much sense to report it to Debian directly? 
> Are you encountering this issue on Debian itself or 
> Armbian/Raspbian/whatever? You reported this to the Raspberry Pi GitHub, so 
> I'd expect them to take this up with the upstream devs themselves, so by the 
> time Trixie is being released, it may already be included.
>
> But besides that, what you describe in the first link sounds to me not like a 
> bug, but as a well thought-through decision. Network adapter names like eth0 
> have been dropped with Debian 11 (I think, maybe even 10). So don't get your 
> hopes up too high to ever see this coming back. But also, just searching the 
> web for this topic, you should have come across this answering your 
> questions: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames

The random MAC address discussed in the bug report (with mention of
Network Manager) could be
.

Jeff

Re: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Richard]

Question is, does it make that much sense to report it to Debian directly?
Are you encountering this issue on Debian itself or
Armbian/Raspbian/whatever? You reported this to the Raspberry Pi GitHub, so
I'd expect them to take this up with the upstream devs themselves, so by
the time Trixie is being released, it may already be included.

But besides that, what you describe in the first link sounds to me not like
a bug, but as a well thought-through decision. Network adapter names like
eth0 have been dropped with Debian 11 (I think, maybe even 10). So don't
get your hopes up too high to ever see this coming back. But also, just
searching the web for this topic, you should have come across this
answering your questions: https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkInterfaceNames

Richard

Am Mi., 12. Juni 2024 um 12:43 Uhr schrieb Peter Goodall <
pjgood...@gmail.com>:

> Hello,
>
> This  bug, or a close relative, has already been reported in
> https://github.com/raspberrypi/bookworm-feedback/issues/239
> as 'Predictable network names broken for ASIX USB ethernet in kernel
> 6.6.20'
>
> I added a comment reporting my experience in Proxmox here:
>
> https://github.com/raspberrypi/bookworm-feedback/issues/239#issuecomment-2162166863
>
> Because it happens in proxmox and rpi I assume its Debian or higher. I
> have not reported a Debian bug before...
>
> Thanks,
> --Peter G
>

Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug

[Peter Goodall]

Hello,

This  bug, or a close relative, has already been reported in
https://github.com/raspberrypi/bookworm-feedback/issues/239
as 'Predictable network names broken for ASIX USB ethernet in kernel 6.6.20'

I added a comment reporting my experience in Proxmox here:
https://github.com/raspberrypi/bookworm-feedback/issues/239#issuecomment-2162166863

Because it happens in proxmox and rpi I assume its Debian or higher. I have
not reported a Debian bug before...

Thanks,
--Peter G

Re: Problem with sleeping mode ( debian 12 ) please help

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 15:09:34 +0100
Mansour Nasri  wrote:

Hello Mansour,

>Hi I'm using debian 12 in Lenovo yoga legion core i5 12th-gen with
>Nvidia
{cut}

You asked this, or a very similar question, on 29 Feb.  You had two
responses that I saw.  I suggest you review those replies and respond
accordingly.

-- 
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 / )  "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad   "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
This is the fifty first state of the USA
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Problem with sleeping mode ( debian 12 ) please help

[Mansour Nasri]

Hi I'm using debian 12 in Lenovo yoga legion core i5 12th-gen with Nvidia
RTX 3050 and i'm facing a serious using debian 12 on this PC,
When the PC is on sleep mode ( suspend ) it's doesn't wake up anymore until
forcing shutting down and this each time the PC turns on suspend mode, (
fastboot are disabled )of course, the PC wake up but the screen is totally
black nothing displayed on the screen, ( installed Nvidia drivers from the
APT repo ) and is same problem.

"on my old PC dell i7 10th ( no additional GPU ) i never had this kind of
issue",  please help to resolve this problem I really don't want to back to
windows anymore. Thank you so much

Re: please, help to get the image write done, due to an error. Thank you!

[Steve McIntyre]

Moving this to the debian-user list and setting reply-to accordingly...

On Fri, Feb 09, 2024 at 12:25:15PM +, guido mezzalana wrote:
>Hello
>
>First of all I wish to thank you all Debian's Team! To still enjoy a free OS:)
>
>I am running Ubuntu XFCE and I am using the Disk Image Write to get your lates
>Debian 12.4.1 XFCE on my USB. Unfortunately after a few try I get always an
>error and so I cannot get the job done. I do have a Lenovo X200 which comes
>without DVD writer.

Ummm. What image exactly are you trying to write, and how?

We don't have any images labelled with version 12.4.1. Where did you
get this image from?

What exact errors is the image writer program reporting? Without that
information it's very difficult to help you.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
< sladen> I actually stayed in a hotel and arrived to find a post-it
  note stuck to the mini-bar saying "Paul: This fridge and
  fittings are the correct way around and do not need altering"

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

The instructions on the webpage:
https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/README.md,
the portion of the note:
https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/README.md#notes-about-combined-wifibluetooth-devices
may please be perused

The firmware was already in the directory: /lib/firmware/brcm, but
still error messages were read on the terminal. Solved the issue.

There was a simple trick involved:
I had to make the file read-only for all. Then restart the computer.

Now:
# dmesg | grep -i bluetooth # Shows all Bluetooth driver info

Output:
[   29.102165] Bluetooth: Core ver 2.22
[   29.102210] Bluetooth: HCI device and connection manager initialized
[   29.102219] Bluetooth: HCI socket layer initialized
[   29.102224] Bluetooth: L2CAP socket layer initialized
[   29.102230] Bluetooth: SCO socket layer initialized
[  105.688413] Bluetooth: BNEP (Ethernet Emulation) ver 1.3
[  105.688419] Bluetooth: BNEP filters: protocol multicast
[  105.688426] Bluetooth: BNEP socket layer initialized

# dmesg | grep -i bluetooth | grep -i firmware # Shows Bluetooth firmware issues

Output: None

However, I am still receiving the same error messages for the other
commands as listed  on the post:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00871.html

I now would need your support to install specific packages and
reconfigure the settings so that I no longer receive the error
messages.

Best wishes

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

Again, I post the following output for the command:
# sudo pkexec dmesg | grep -i "BCM"

Output:
[3.731659] usb 1-4: Product: BCM43142A0
[   17.507884] wlan0: Broadcom BCM4365 802.11 Hybrid Wireless
Controller 6.30.223.271 (r587334)
[   18.939316] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
[   18.940314] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
[   18.956242] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A
[   18.956249] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
[   19.175963] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware
brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd
[   19.175977] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 'brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd' Patch
[   29.429513] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: Patch command 227b failed (-110)
[   29.431433] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: Patch failed (-110)
[   39.669304] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: Reset failed (-110)

On the webpage:
https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/README.md,
the portion of the note:
https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/README.md#notes-about-combined-wifibluetooth-devices
 may please be perused:

Some Bluetooth controller (for example, BCM4354 and BCM4356) are
integrated to WiFi chipset (this can be BCM43XX 802.11ac Wireless
Network Adapter or just simple generic Broadcom PCIE Wireless). These
devices requires two kinds of firmware - first for WiFi, and second
for Bluetooth. Without WiFi firmware Bluetooth will not initialize and
will not work properly. Firmware for WiFi already included to kernel,
but you may need to do additional work to place correct NVRAM.

Resolution needed for the above note.

I used the instructions on the Debian page to install the packages:

https://wiki.debian.org/BluetoothUser

I have installed the packages bluetooth, blueman and the rest.
Have the following installed:
blueman
bluetooth
bluez
bluez-obexd
libbluetooth3
connman

I typed on the terminal:
# blue
then used tab. The following applications are installed.
blueman-adapters   blueman-assistant  blueman-report
blueman-services   bluemoon
blueman-applet blueman-managerblueman-sendto blueman-tray
 bluetoothctl

>From the Start Menu/Preferences/Bluetooth Manager, but the tray icon
isn't visible.

Used:
# sudo blueman-services
blueman-services version 2.1.4 starting
root@debianHPRajib:/home/rajib# sudo service bluetooth status
● bluetooth.service - Bluetooth service
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled;
vendor preset: enabled)
 Active: active (running) since Sun 2023-10-29 06:41:39 IST; 9h ago
   Docs: man:bluetoothd(8)
   Main PID: 815 (bluetoothd)
 Status: "Running"
  Tasks: 1 (limit: 4566)
 Memory: 1.4M
CPU: 49ms
 CGroup: /system.slice/bluetooth.service
 └─815 /usr/libexec/bluetooth/bluetoothd

Oct 29 06:41:34 debianHPRajib systemd[1]: Starting Bluetooth service...
Oct 29 06:41:35 debianHPRajib bluetoothd[815]: Bluetooth daemon 5.55
Oct 29 06:41:39 debianHPRajib systemd[1]: Started Bluetooth service.
Oct 29 06:41:39 debianHPRajib bluetoothd[815]: Starting SDP server
Oct 29 06:41:40 debianHPRajib bluetoothd[815]: Bluetooth management
interface 1.18 initialized

This is consistently reported as Running.

Then tried: # sudo blueman-assistant
A pop-up says no assistant found

Then:
# sudo blueman-manager
blueman-manager version 2.1.4 starting
blueman-manager 16.17.02 ERRORManager:118 on_dbus_name_appeared:
Default adapter not found, trying first available.
blueman-manager 16.17.02 ERRORManager:122 on_dbus_name_appeared:
No adapter(s) found, exiting

Then tried:
# sudo blueman-adapters
blueman-adapters version 2.1.4 starting
blueman-adapters 16.18.13 ERRORAdapter:53 __init__  : No adapter(s) found

Then tried:
# sudo blueman-applet
blueman-applet version 2.1.4 starting
There is an instance already running

Then tried:
# sudo blueman-tray
blueman-tray version 2.1.4 starting
There is an instance already running

Then tried:
# sudo blueman-services
blueman-services version 2.1.4 starting
A window opens with title: local services and presents options.

Then tried:
# sudo blueman-report
Terminating blueman-applet
Describe your next action (keep empty if done):
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/blueman-report", line 57, in 
response = urllib2.urlopen('https://api.github.com/gists',
data.encode('UTF-8')).read()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 214, in urlopen
return opener.open(url, data, timeout)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 523, in open
response = meth(req, response)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 632, in http_response
response = self.parent.error(
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 561, in error
return self._call_chain(*args)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 494, in _call_chain
result = func(*args)
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/urllib/request.py", line 641, in http_error_default
raise HTTPError(req.full_url, code, msg, hdrs, fp)

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

Dear Mr. ullrich, I am so concerned by the Biblical God-like
Commandment of some of the senior members of this mailing list that I
have to ask you a second time: have you meticulously perused all my
posts relating to this problematic hardware?:
"Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142
802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

The relevant posts begin at:
(1)   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/10/msg00493.html
(2)   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00452.html
(3)   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00649.html
(4)   https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00650.html

Also, I assume you have noted that I still continue to use the
oldstable system:  [Official Debian GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde
2022-12-17T11:46]/ bullseye

Sometimes I feel that some posters are actually planted here on the
Mailing List, and are heavily paid for their disruptions, by the
Proprietary Universe, to make Free and Open Source users like me lose
hope on the FSF ecosystem, feel frustrated and compel us to return to
the Proprietary Universe, turning away from the FSF/OpenSource system
and the Social Contract.

Then again, there are some who express their goodness and then vanish.
The latter, like Mr. Davidson, Mr. Curt, et al, are the ones who keep
my hope on humanity and the social contract intact. I still believe
that man could admire the best way forward: the positive non-zero sum
cooperative games, if he chose wisely.

You appear to be here since May 2011 in the debian-user ML. So you
appear to be a fairly senior member. Also, it appears that you have
been suggesting module-assistant since Jul 2011, thus experienced in
using module-assistant.

I have installed the m-a package, but not the rest, yet.

I hope that I will hear from you a second time. If I don't, then still ...

Best wishes,
Rajib
Etc.

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Hans]

Am Samstag, 28. Oktober 2023, 13:08:21 CEST schrieb Susmita/Rajib:
>  BCM43142A0
Try the following.





Building kernel modue:


1. Install the packages module-assistant, broadcom-sta, broadcom-dkms and 
broadcom-sta-
source

2. start module-assistant, command: m-a

3. In GUI enter  UPDATE

4. In GUI enter  PREPARE 

5. In GUI enter  SELECT

6. In SELECT menu choose broadcom-sta and click ok

7. In GUI enter GET

8. In GUI enter BUILD

9. In GUI enter INSTALL

After finish enter BACK and EXIT.




You will need the firmware. The firmware is distribution independent, so you 
can get it from 
other distributions, like here from AUR:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/bcm43142a0-firmware[1]

Get it and put it manually into /lib/firmware





Now try again. Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans


[1] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/bcm43142a0-firmware

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 at 08:31, Susmita/Rajib  wrote:
 [ ... ]
> > Install the package firmware-b43-installer and follow the prompts.
> >
> > I'm fairly sure that's all it takes. You may need to uninstall wl
> > and / or any other changes you've made.
> [ ... ]
>
> Ok, I will gradually try to learn about this firmware, 
> "firmware-b43-installer".
[ ... ]


Dear Mr. Cater,

I took time to go through the list/description of Wireless network
cards in the package Description for which the driver   is suitable.
The list is as follows:
...
Supported chipsets:
 * BCM4306/3 (chip revision 3 only);
 * BCM4311 (NOT PCI Id 14e4:4313);
 * BCM4312;
 * BCM43131;
 * BCM4318;
 * BCM4321 (only partial support, not all versions tested);
 * BCM43217;
 * BCM4322 (only partial support for some versions, not all versions tested);
 * BCM43222 (not all versions tested);
 * BCM43224 (not all versions tested);
 * BCM43225;
 * BCM43227;
 * BCM43228;
 * BCM4331;
 * BCM47xx (detection not reliable, may not support all versions).

If observed carefully, the card which my laptop has is:
BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)

None of the list-items has the said card mentioned. So I am doubtful
if this driver would even work.

Further, the webpage
https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/b43#contact for the
"firmware-b43-installer"  may please be perused:

On the webpage the list with the following columns has the following
entries for the said chipset:
PCI-ID Supported? Chip ID Modes PHY version Alternative
14e4:4365 no BCM43142 b/g/n LCN40 (r3) wl

So it can be seen that the driver isn't suitable for my laptop's said card.

I again post my query to all Senior Members of the debian-user Mailing List:
If senior members have gone through this ML subject thread, your
experience is invited on the issue.

Once again the detailed dmesg output for the "bluetooth" section for
the said card is at the post:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00649.html.
Particularly:

# dmesg | grep -i -e "bluetooth"

[191884.268151] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
[191884.269117] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
[191884.285185] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A
[191884.285195] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
[191884.286140] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
[191884.286161] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
[191884.286165] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: firmware Patch file not found, tried:
[191884.286168] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd'
[191884.286171] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd'
[191886.293688] Bluetooth: hci0: command 0x1003 tx timeout
[191886.295091] Bluetooth: hci0: unexpected event for opcode 0x1003

The wifi section works perfectly well.

Therefore, I would again return to my earlier post at:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00650.html

That is, the thread with the Subject:
Which Network Controller Card handling Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.,
connectivities, is GNU/Linux Approved/certified, and would be (1)
compatible with my HP laptop's motherboard, and (2) could replace the
"Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142
802.11b/g/n (rev 01)"

I desire a Debian approved list for perfectly compatible
Wireless-Bluetooth Cards. Like the PCI list, with the heading:
DeviceDatabase/PCI - Debian Wiki
at
https://wiki.debian.org/DeviceDatabase/PCI

Best wishes,
Rajib,
Etc.

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" 
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 17:12:41 +
Message-id: <[] ztf7cq23nikqt...@einval.com>
In-reply-to: <[]
CAEG4cZW87bzq6SMO0HPJAfh+UcgJFEJ=jo6ahbrwecp22yb...@mail.gmail.com>
References: <[]
caeg4czxgp3wqszgsps5erwcvxyf1wdm-mjnbx+ehvybqrr-...@mail.gmail.com>

<[] CAEG4cZW87bzq6SMO0HPJAfh+UcgJFEJ=jo6ahbrwecp22yb...@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mr. Cater, thank you for your kind reply.

> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 08:19:03PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:

[ ... ]
> Please ensure that your /etc/apt/sources.list includes entries
> for main contrib and non-free
>
> See, for example, the version for Debian Bullseye (oldstable) in this
> link: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList
>
> Then do an apt update ; apt upgrade to bring yourself up to date.

[ ... ]

It was already done, as recorded earlier and elsewhere. So otherwise,
I am ready.


[ ... ]
> Install the package firmware-b43-installer and follow the prompts.
>
> I'm fairly sure that's all it takes. You may need to uninstall wl
> and / or any other changes you've made.
[ ... ]

Ok, I will gradually try to learn about this firmware, "firmware-b43-installer".

[ ... ]
> As the author of the FAQ posting made here every month;
> Please do not post political / nationalistic / controversial
> points here - Debian is worldwide and Bharat nationalism may be
> misplaced as not everyone will appreciate what you are writing.
[ ... ]

Sure.

One note: the correct phrase would be "Inclusive Globalism", not
"Bharatiya Nationalism".

In the said post, as a reply to Mr. Dan Purgert  -'s
post dated: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 07:45:13 -0400, I couldn't help identify
the global anglo-Saxon ploy to enslave the world embedded within his
sentences.

I immediately remembered the information on the "The Creature From
Jekyll Island, G Edward Grifin", "The Tower Of Basel, Adam LaBor",
"Committee Of 300", the "Corporation Of London", et al. I was just
networking the extreme evil that ensues from a trans-generational
scarcity of resources, and my thought flowed to the tropics, where
ample sunlight and rainfall ensured a bewilderingly rich biome with
plenty of diverse foods, merriment and festivals round the year. I
remembered that the public is only 3 meals away from a revolution.
>From there the Maslow-ian hierarchy of needs arrived ... and the rest
 Control, Covid19, planned eradication of global population,
Control of Resources by Global Corporations, End of Freedoms,
including Free air and water ...

Readers interested to know the real story of Bharat could contact for
a text download link.

Best wishes,
Rajib
Etc.

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 08:19:03PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" 
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:50:48 +
> Message-id: <[] ztehic-dyzpii...@einval.com>
> In-reply-to: <[]
> caeg4czxgp3wqszgsps5erwcvxyf1wdm-mjnbx+ehvybqrr-...@mail.gmail.com>
> 
> Dear Mr. Cater,
> 
> Once again, thank you for your post.
> 
> But Mr. Cater, I would have to request you to appreciate my
> limitations to follow your advice, given the gap in our competence
> levels.
> 

Dear Rajib,

I can't help you because I don't have such a card / chipset.

Please ensure that your /etc/apt/sources.list includes entries 
for main contrib and non-free

See, for example, the version for Debian Bullseye (oldstable) in this
link: https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList

Then do an apt update ; apt upgrade to bring yourself up to date.

Install the package firmware-b43-installer and follow the prompts.

I'm fairly sure that's all it takes. You may need to uninstall wl
and / or any other changes you've made.

As the author of the FAQ posting made here every month; 
Please do not post political / nationalistic / controversial
points here - Debian is worldwide and Bharat nationalism may be
misplaced as not everyone will appreciate what you are writing.

With every good wish, as ever,

Andy Cater

(amaca...@debian.org)


> But I will try to learn more about b43-fwcutter.
> 
> Fortunately for me, I had opened the casing to check that the said
> wireless network card is inserted into a slot on the motherboard
> internally and could be removed and reinserted.
> 
> So, you could guide me a little further on b43-fwcutter and let us see
> if I could carry the mission a little further.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Rajib
> Etc.
> 

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" 
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 10:50:48 +
Message-id: <[] ztehic-dyzpii...@einval.com>
In-reply-to: <[]
caeg4czxgp3wqszgsps5erwcvxyf1wdm-mjnbx+ehvybqrr-...@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mr. Cater,

Once again, thank you for your post.

But Mr. Cater, I would have to request you to appreciate my
limitations to follow your advice, given the gap in our competence
levels.

But I will try to learn more about b43-fwcutter.

Fortunately for me, I had opened the casing to check that the said
wireless network card is inserted into a slot on the motherboard
internally and could be removed and reinserted.

So, you could guide me a little further on b43-fwcutter and let us see
if I could carry the mission a little further.

Best wishes,
Rajib
Etc.

Re: Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 02:01:21PM +0530, Susmita/Rajib wrote:
> My dear illustrious Team Leaders and Senior Members, Debian-User
> group, debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> I rephrase my earlier question posted at:
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00452.html
> which didn't receive an insightful reply or guidance. Yes, Mr. Cater
> did advise on B43 series firmware along with his suggestion to update
> and I thank him for that. But I have progressed a bit further than the
> situation I faced then. In the end, if we fail, I will change the
> Wireless Network Card.
> 

Hi Rajib,

I don't think you quite got the point I was making.

wl is one way round the problem. b43-fwcutter is the other, and more usual
way round this problematic Broadcom chipset.

If you go the b43 way, then you need to remove wl, I think.
The catch is that you need network access to download the Broadcom firmware
to make use of b43-fwcutter.

If you're unlucky, the wireless network card may actually be built into
the laptop chipset and not easily able to be changed. You may also find
that HP expect particular models and have deny-listed others.

> Any advice with usual codes and inputs will be welcome.
> 
> 
> The LAN interface is:
> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL810xE
> PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller (rev 07)
> Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet
> controller
> Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18
> I/O ports at 4000 [size=256]
> Memory at c070 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> Memory at c040 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=16K]
> Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3
> Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+
> Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 01
> Capabilities: [b0] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=4 Masked-
> Capabilities: [d0] Vital Product Data
> Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
> Capabilities: [140] Virtual Channel
> Capabilities: [160] Device Serial Number 01-00-00-00-36-4c-e0-00
> Capabilities: [170] Latency Tolerance Reporting
> Kernel driver in use: r8169
> Kernel modules: r8169
> 

This is stock Realtek and should work without a problem.

> However, with the output of # dmesg | grep -i -e "bluetooth"
> 
> [191884.268151] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
> [191884.269117] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
> [191884.285185] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A
> [191884.285195] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
> [191884.286140] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
> brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
> [191884.286161] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
> brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
> [191884.286165] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: firmware Patch file not found, tried:
> [191884.286168] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd'
> [191884.286171] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd'
> [191886.293688] Bluetooth: hci0: command 0x1003 tx timeout
> [191886.295091] Bluetooth: hci0: unexpected event for opcode 0x1003
> 
> 
> So, brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd firmware isn't working properly.
> 
> I reached the ubuntu thread and the post:
> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2489817=14156420#post14156420
> talks about the Bluetooth driver brcm.
> 
> I searched the internet with the firmware "BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd" and reached:
> https://wiki.debian.org/BCMHybridBTFirmware#Missing_Firmware_Filename
> 
> Used:
> #pkexec dmidecode -t01
> 
> Outputs:
> # dmidecode 3.3
> Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
> SMBIOS 2.8 present.
> 
> Handle 0x0001, DMI type 1, 27 bytes
> System Information
> Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
> Product Name: HP Notebook
> Version: Type1ProductConfigId
> Serial Number: **edited**
> UUID: **edited**
> Wake-up Type: Power Switch
> SKU Number: **edited**
> Family: 103C_5335KV G=N L=CON B=HP
> 
> Went to github. Read the page README.md  at:
> https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd
> 
> Instruction raed and followed: "... Place required .hcd file to
> /lib/firmware/brcm ..."
> 
> But there appears to be a problem:
> #sudo dmesg | grep -i -e "bluetooth"
> 
> Outputs:
> [   16.740380] Bluetooth: Core ver 2.22
> [   16.740410] Bluetooth: HCI device and connection manager initialized
> [   16.740414] Bluetooth: HCI socket layer initialized
> [   16.740418] Bluetooth: L2CAP socket layer initialized
> [   16.740423] Bluetooth: SCO socket layer initialized
> [   17.477920] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
> [   17.478903] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
> [   17.494925] Bluetooth: hci0: ***edited***
> [   17.494929] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
> [   17.719998] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware
> brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd
> [   17.720007] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 

Please help configure to activate Bluetooth networking for "Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)" card

[Susmita/Rajib]

My dear illustrious Team Leaders and Senior Members, Debian-User
group, debian-user@lists.debian.org

I rephrase my earlier question posted at:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/10/msg00452.html
which didn't receive an insightful reply or guidance. Yes, Mr. Cater
did advise on B43 series firmware along with his suggestion to update
and I thank him for that. But I have progressed a bit further than the
situation I faced then. In the end, if we fail, I will change the
Wireless Network Card.

Any advice with usual codes and inputs will be welcome.

I have reached the post at https://wiki.debian.org/DeviceDatabase/PCI

The lspci -v for the Wireless Network Interface card is:
04:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43142
802.11b/g/n (rev 01)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company BCM43142 802.11b/g/n
Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16
Memory at c050 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=32K]
Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3
Capabilities: [58] Vendor Specific Information: Len=78 
Capabilities: [48] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+
Capabilities: [d0] Express Endpoint, MSI 00
Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
Capabilities: [13c] Virtual Channel
Capabilities: [160] Device Serial Number 00-00-b8-ff-ff-dc-ac-d1
Capabilities: [16c] Power Budgeting 
Kernel driver in use: wl
Kernel modules: bcma, wl

The LAN interface is:
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL810xE
PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller (rev 07)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet
controller
Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18
I/O ports at 4000 [size=256]
Memory at c070 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
Memory at c040 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=16K]
Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3
Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+
Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 01
Capabilities: [b0] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=4 Masked-
Capabilities: [d0] Vital Product Data
Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting
Capabilities: [140] Virtual Channel
Capabilities: [160] Device Serial Number 01-00-00-00-36-4c-e0-00
Capabilities: [170] Latency Tolerance Reporting
Kernel driver in use: r8169
Kernel modules: r8169

However, with the output of # dmesg | grep -i -e "bluetooth"

[191884.268151] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
[191884.269117] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
[191884.285185] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A
[191884.285195] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
[191884.286140] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
[191884.286161] bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load
brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd (-2)
[191884.286165] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: firmware Patch file not found, tried:
[191884.286168] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd'
[191884.286171] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: 'brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd'
[191886.293688] Bluetooth: hci0: command 0x1003 tx timeout
[191886.295091] Bluetooth: hci0: unexpected event for opcode 0x1003


So, brcm/BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd firmware isn't working properly.

I reached the ubuntu thread and the post:
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2489817=14156420#post14156420
talks about the Bluetooth driver brcm.

I searched the internet with the firmware "BCM-0a5c-216d.hcd" and reached:
https://wiki.debian.org/BCMHybridBTFirmware#Missing_Firmware_Filename

Used:
#pkexec dmidecode -t01

Outputs:
# dmidecode 3.3
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 2.8 present.

Handle 0x0001, DMI type 1, 27 bytes
System Information
Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name: HP Notebook
Version: Type1ProductConfigId
Serial Number: **edited**
UUID: **edited**
Wake-up Type: Power Switch
SKU Number: **edited**
Family: 103C_5335KV G=N L=CON B=HP

Went to github. Read the page README.md  at:
https://github.com/winterheart/broadcom-bt-firmware/blob/master/brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd

Instruction raed and followed: "... Place required .hcd file to
/lib/firmware/brcm ..."

But there appears to be a problem:
#sudo dmesg | grep -i -e "bluetooth"

Outputs:
[   16.740380] Bluetooth: Core ver 2.22
[   16.740410] Bluetooth: HCI device and connection manager initialized
[   16.740414] Bluetooth: HCI socket layer initialized
[   16.740418] Bluetooth: L2CAP socket layer initialized
[   16.740423] Bluetooth: SCO socket layer initialized
[   17.477920] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: chip id 70
[   17.478903] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM: features 0x06
[   17.494925] Bluetooth: hci0: ***edited***
[   17.494929] Bluetooth: hci0: BCM43142A0 (001.001.011) build 
[   17.719998] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware
brcm/BCM43142A0-0a5c-216d.hcd
[   

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 10/6/23 00:22, Bret Busby wrote:

On 10/6/23 00:05, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 23:34, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 18:43, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot 
from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB 
stick is ok
and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I 
press F9 and a
menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it 
doesn't

so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM
protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.



Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem 
remains.


Rodolfo



I asked before, and have not seen an answer.

Have you gone into the UEFI/BIOS, and turned off secure booting?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


You might want to read this;

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2023-June/310491.html

and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change 
the boot order to


USB drive
Optical (eg, DVD) drive (if the computer has one)
HDD

so that the computer should attempt to boot from the respective 
drives, in that order.




It occurred to me, after posting the above message, that I should have 
worded that last part, slightly differently, for clarification; the

"and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change
  the boot order to"

should have been

"and, of course, in that procedure, while still in the system UEFI/BIOS, 
between steps 2 and 3, change the boot order to".


I hope that all of this, is helpful, and, credit for success, should go 
to Liam.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

In this, since I last posted, I remembered that, on one of my computers, 
on which I installed Linux Mint, whilst the BIOS was set to boot first 
from the USB input, it would not, so, I simply wrote a copy of the iso 
file to a DVD, and, booted from the DVD drive, and, installed from the 
DVD drive, without any problem.


If the original poster has not yet been able to boot into a Linux iso 
file from the USB input, perhaps, providing the computer does have a DVD 
drive, the original poster could try the DVD method, and, tell us how 
successful that is.



..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Hans]

Am Freitag, 9. Juni 2023, 18:37:14 CEST schrieb Stefan Monnier:
Hi Stefan,

this might e a problem of your BIOS. However, if your BIOS does not support 
booting from USB, 
here is a trick:

You can download a bootable CD-Rom from this site:

https://www.plop.at[1]

Look for the Bootmgr. It is a live-cd., which is booting, then you can chose 
further boot from 
another media like USB.

It helps, whenever your BIOS does not have the capability (i.e. it is too old), 
to boot from USB.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!

Best 

Hans


> > I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot
> > from USB stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the
> > USB stick is ok and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At
> > the boot I press F9 and a menu appears where I can choose to boot from
> > USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all booting instead into Windows
> > 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but nothing.  Please help as
> > I don't know what to do: thanks.
> 
> I don't have experience with your specific problem and after reading the
> rest of the thread, I'm not sure what might be the problem or how to fix
> it, but faced with this, I think I'd try to open the machine up and
> remove the "disk" to which it boots (i.e. the one with Window-11 on it).
> 
> Not sure it would fix the problem, but if not I'd hope it might give
> further hints.
> 
> 
> Stefan




[1] https://www.plop.at

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Peter Ehlert]

On 6/8/23 11:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.

Rodolfo


(after reading the other comments)

I recently had a similar issue with a HP 840G3 laptop

after editing the BIOS to disable secure boot and setting the boot order 
no joy.


I discovered that holding down F9 and then pressing the power button it 
goes directly into BIOS boot menu.

THEN selecting the USB drive from the list it works.


maybe your laptop has some such direct boot path option
best of luck

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Stefan Monnier]

> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot
> from USB stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the
> USB stick is ok and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At
> the boot I press F9 and a menu appears where I can choose to boot from
> USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all booting instead into Windows
> 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but nothing.  Please help as
> I don't know what to do: thanks.

I don't have experience with your specific problem and after reading the
rest of the thread, I'm not sure what might be the problem or how to fix
it, but faced with this, I think I'd try to open the machine up and
remove the "disk" to which it boots (i.e. the one with Window-11 on it).

Not sure it would fix the problem, but if not I'd hope it might give
further hints.


Stefan

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 23:34, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 18:43, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot 
from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick 
is ok
and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press 
F9 and a
menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it 
doesn't

so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM
protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.



Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.

Rodolfo



I asked before, and have not seen an answer.

Have you gone into the UEFI/BIOS, and turned off secure booting?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


You might want to read this;

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2023-June/310491.html

and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change 
the boot order to


USB drive
Optical (eg, DVD) drive (if the computer has one)
HDD

so that the computer should attempt to boot from the respective drives, 
in that order.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 10/6/23 00:05, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 23:34, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 18:43, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot 
from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB 
stick is ok
and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press 
F9 and a
menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it 
doesn't

so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM
protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.



Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.

Rodolfo



I asked before, and have not seen an answer.

Have you gone into the UEFI/BIOS, and turned off secure booting?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


You might want to read this;

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2023-June/310491.html

and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change 
the boot order to


USB drive
Optical (eg, DVD) drive (if the computer has one)
HDD

so that the computer should attempt to boot from the respective drives, 
in that order.




It occurred to me, after posting the above message, that I should have 
worded that last part, slightly differently, for clarification; the

"and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change
 the boot order to"

should have been

"and, of course, in that procedure, while still in the system UEFI/BIOS, 
between steps 2 and 3, change the boot order to".


I hope that all of this, is helpful, and, credit for success, should go 
to Liam.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 18:43, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Rodolfo Medina  writes:


I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a
menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't
so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM
protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.



Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.

Rodolfo



I asked before, and have not seen an answer.

Have you gone into the UEFI/BIOS, and turned off secure booting?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Max Nikulin]

On 09/06/2023 17:54, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

...And now I tried even with an MS Windows 10 installation CDROM but the
problem remains!


Check what devices are enabled in boot settings in system setup (BIOS or 
firmware setting).


When you switching off a computer with windows, perhaps actually it 
performs suspend do disk (hibernate), not shutdown. Alternative boot 
options may be disabled when system is resumed from hibernation. Ensure 
that you namely *shutdown* windows. The following page suggests that it 
may be configured in "System and Security". Perhaps some modifier (Alt 
or Shift) may unveil additional options related to the power item of the 
start menu.


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shut-down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-pc-2941d165-7d0a-a5e8-c5ad-8c972e8e6eff

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[fjd]

On Fri, 9 Jun 2023, Rodolfo Medina wrote:


Rodolfo Medina  writes:


Rodolfo Medina  writes:


I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and
a menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it
doesn't so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the
CSM protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.



Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.



...And now I tried even with an MS Windows 10 installation CDROM but the
problem remains!


I may have missed it: have you tried going into Windows 10 and into 
setup, looking for 'boot' in the search bar and select 'change 
advanced startup options'? then you go to "Advanced startup" and 
hit "Restart now"?


When the machine reboots go into the BIOS/UEFI system and select your 
usb.


Sorry if this has been proposed already and I missed it. Also sorry if 
it doesn't work. I have to do it if I want to boot from usb on my Acer 
laptop.


fjd

--

Verbum sat sapienti.

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

> Rodolfo Medina  writes:
>
>> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
>> stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
>> and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and
>> a menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it
>> doesn't so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the
>> CSM protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.
>
>
> Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.


...And now I tried even with an MS Windows 10 installation CDROM but the
problem remains!

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

Rodolfo Medina  writes:

> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
> stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
> and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a
> menu appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't
> so at all booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM
> protocol but nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.


Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[DdB]

Am 08.06.2023 um 20:36 schrieb Rodolfo Medina:
> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
> stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok 
> and
> so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
> appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at 
> all
> booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
> nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.
> 
> Rodolfo
> 
> 
Sorry, i have no experience with this concrete issue. Last time, i
experienced USB boot issues, it did help to just use another USB-port
instead. ;-)

But honestly, i see many hints and advices are coming, but still the
cause of the problem has not yet been identified, which would be my
first attempt in any case.

Since you confirm, that booting from the stick is possible on another
machine, it cannot be, that the stick itself doesnt work. But does that
other machine also have the same processor architecture (celeron ...)?

IIRC it is possible to boot a 32-bit OS on a 64 bit machine (not
recommended, but possible), whereas the other way round would just fail.

Sure, in here Windooze is regarded as a nuisance, but even windows can
inspect its boot config and determine, how the machine is coming up, if
the disk has GPT or MBR (probably the first), and you might be able to
find out, if your setup allows ANY booting from USB (like non flash
storage).

Even without aspiring for completeness, i was suggesting different areas
being possibly of concern, like
- hardware (usb, processor)
- bios (setup)
- version mismatch (partition tables, OS-architecture)
- there may be more (like secret holes leading to hidden switches)

Once the cause will be identified, it is going to be much easier (or
just plain impossible) to remedy the problem. And please report back,
what you found.

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[David Christensen]

On 6/9/23 00:59, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

David Christensen writes:

On 6/8/23 11:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at
all
booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.


On 6/8/23 13:01, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

   
https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA


Do you want Windows/Debian dual-boot, or Debian only?


At least one of the two.  What I don't want is MS Windows only...  ;-)



Okay.  I avoid dual-boot, so I will allow others more familiar with 
dual-boot help.



David

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

Bret Busby  writes:

> If you go to
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html
>
> and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about
> Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through the
> responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able to get
> the answer that you seek.


Thanks, but it is of no help, I'm afraid...

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt"  writes:

> I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.
>
> [...]
>
> You could try with
>   
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> and CSM disabled.

Unfortunately, it won't boot either...

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

David Christensen  writes:

> On 6/8/23 11:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
>> stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok
>> and
>> so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a 
>> menu
>> appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at
>> all
>> booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
>> nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.
>
> On 6/8/23 13:01, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>>
>   
> https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA
>
>
> Do you want Windows/Debian dual-boot, or Debian only?


At least one of the two.  What I don't want is MS Windows only...  ;-)

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> > So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.

Charles Curley wrote:
> A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
> better use of its capabilities.

Other than with legacy BIOS, EFI looks for different boot programs in the
EFI System Partition's FAT filesystem:
i386:  \EFI\BOOT\BOOTIA32.EFI
amd64: \EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI

debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso only offers BOOTIA32.EFI :
  mount debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso /mnt/iso
  mount /mnt/iso/boot/grub/efi.img /mnt/fat
  find /mnt/fat
So a normal amd64 EFI will not consider booting it.

The MBR code for legacy BIOS should be usable for 64-bit and 32-bit
alike. But Rodolfo Medina's machine seems not to like the USB stick in
CSM mode.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Joseph Loo]

You might want to read the manual with the computer. My Lenovo would boot
automatically to Windows. In the manual, it had a hold on the side, trusty
paperwork clip press the hole, boots into bios. Install Linux

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023, 2:51 PM Bret Busby  wrote:

> On 9/6/23 05:18, Bret Busby wrote:
> > On 9/6/23 05:02, Bret Busby wrote:
> >> On 9/6/23 04:52, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> >>> Bret Busby  writes:
> >>>
>  My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is
>  designed
>  to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.
> 
>  A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to
>  boot into
>  Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing
> list.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!
> >>>
> >>> Rodolfo
> >>>
> >> I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I
> >> believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published
> >> equivalent information for Windows 10.
> >>
> >> I seek his response.
> >>
> >> ..
> >> Bret Busby
> >> Armadale
> >> West Australia
> >> (UTC+0800)
> >> ..
> > Have you disabled "secure boot" on your Windows 11 PC?
> >
> > ..
> > Bret Busby
> > Armadale
> > West Australia
> > (UTC+0800)
> > ..
>
> If you go to
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html
>
> and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about
> Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through
> the responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able
> to get the answer that you seek.
>
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..
>
>

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[David Christensen]

On 6/8/23 11:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.


On 6/8/23 13:01, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> 
https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA



Do you want Windows/Debian dual-boot, or Debian only?


David

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[David Wright]

On Thu 08 Jun 2023 at 15:36:27 (-0600), Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 23:15:36 +0200 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote:
> 
> > I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> > So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.
> 
> A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
> better use of its capabilities.

Perhaps we have to distinguish between "CPU can run 32-bits too"
and "a particular UEFI can boot into a 32-bit OS".

Cheers,
David.

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 05:18, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 05:02, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 04:52, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Bret Busby  writes:

My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is 
designed

to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.

A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to 
boot into

Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.



Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!

Rodolfo

I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I 
believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published 
equivalent information for Windows 10.


I seek his response.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Have you disabled "secure boot" on your Windows 11 PC?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


If you go to

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html

and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about 
Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through 
the responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able 
to get the answer that you seek.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 05:26, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 05:18, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 05:02, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 04:52, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Bret Busby  writes:

My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is 
designed

to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.

A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to 
boot into
Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing 
list.



Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!

Rodolfo

I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I 
believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published 
equivalent information for Windows 10.


I seek his response.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Have you disabled "secure boot" on your Windows 11 PC?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..


If you go to

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html

and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about 
Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through 
the responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able 
to get the answer that you seek.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..
I should have included, in my previous posts about this, that the 
imperative first step, before either using a newly purchased computer, 
or, trying to add an extra booting operating system to any computer, new 
or otherwise, is to ensure that you have the latest available UEFI/BIOS 
installed on the computer.


The computer manufacturer's web site should have the applicable 
procedures involved,  for both checking the installed and latest 
UEFI/BIOS versions for the computer, and, for upgrading it as needed.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 23:15:36 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

> I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.

A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
better use of its capabilities.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 20:01:20 +
Rodolfo Medina  wrote:

> Here it is:
> 
>  
> https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA

Hmm, never heard of that vendor. You might do better with one of the
Debian Italian language lists.
https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 05:02, Bret Busby wrote:

On 9/6/23 04:52, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Bret Busby  writes:

My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is 
designed

to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.

A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to 
boot into

Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.



Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!

Rodolfo

I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I 
believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published 
equivalent information for Windows 10.


I seek his response.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Have you disabled "secure boot" on your Windows 11 PC?

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGX
KBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA
>  $ dd if=debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdd bs=4M; sync

I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.


> > In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol
> No message: it simply boots into Windows instead of the USB drive that I
> chose in the menu.

You could try with
  
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
and CSM disabled.
(Maybe it even begins to work with CSM if the firmware is brain damaged
enough.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 04:52, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Bret Busby  writes:


My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is designed
to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.

A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to boot into
Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.



Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!

Rodolfo

I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I 
believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published 
equivalent information for Windows 10.


I seek his response.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

Bret Busby  writes:

> My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is designed
> to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.
>
> A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to boot into
> Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.


Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure?  Thanks!

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 02:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.

Rodolfo

My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is 
designed to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious 
Windows 11.


A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to boot 
into Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.


My understanding is that, to boot into Linux or any other non-MS 
operating system, Windows 11 should be avoided like the plague that it 
is, and, that a computer with the Windows 10 OS should be obtained, 
rather than the malware that is Windows 11.


Windows 11 also, in the malware that it is, proscribes software that 
runs on Windows 10 and earlier versions of Windows.


The best use for a Windows 11 computer, is to use it as a projectile. 
Such computers are not even substantial enough to use as boat anchors.


..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

Thank you Andrew and Charles.

"Andrew M.A. Cater"  writes:

> What model of machine is this - and how new?

Here it is:

 
https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA


> How did you write the image to the USB stick?

This way:

 $ dd if=debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdd bs=4M; sync

As I said, another machine of mine boots regularly into it, so it must be ok.

> CSM is probably not needed. USB boot *should* work but there is a
> way of forcing boot only to Windows 11 in some machines. (I had this
> on a relatively new T490).
>
> Does it show any messages?

No message: it simply boots into Windows instead of the USB drive that I chose
in the menu.

Thanks,

Rodolfo

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 18:36:27 +
Rodolfo Medina  wrote:

> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot
> from USB stick.

It might help if you identified the new machine.

You might also check web sites related to Linux on that manufacturer's
products. E.g. thinkwiki (https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki) for
Lenovo/IBM machines. Or https://linux-hardware.org.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Jun 08, 2023 at 06:36:27PM +, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
> stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok 
> and
> so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
> appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at 
> all
> booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
> nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.
> 

Hi Rodolfo,

What model of machine is this - and how new?

How did you write the image to the USB stick?

CSM is probably not needed. USB boot *should* work but there is a
way of forcing boot only to Windows 11 in some machines. (I had this
on a relatively new T490).

Does it show any messages?


> Rodolfo
>

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater 

Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick.  (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.)  At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
booting instead into Windows 11.  In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing.  Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.

Rodolfo

Re: Please help me install Tomcat

[TRS-80]

Amn Ojee Uw  writes:

> I've tried to install Tomcat, different version, like so :
> /# Download the latest release of tomcat 10.1.5//
> //wget
> https://downloads.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-8/v8.5.85/bin/apache-tomcat-8.5.85.tar.gz//
> //
> //# Create tomcat directory//
> //sudo mkdir /opt/tomcat//
> //
> //# Extract the binary file with tar command in the /opt/tomcat path//
> //sudo tar -xvf apache-tomcat-8.5.85.tar.gz -C /opt/tomcat
> --strip-components=1//

[...]

> I really don't even know what to do with that info. I am an enthusiast
> programmer and not a trained computer programmer, thus I find this
> kind of things really challenging.

Given these comments, I am not understanding why you are trying to
install from tarball when it appears to me that Tomcat is available in
the Debian repos (at least in Bookworm and Sid):

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=tomcat

It looks like 'tomcat10' is the package name you are looking for.

-- 
Cheers,
TRS-80

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Timothy M Butterworth]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 9:42 AM Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz 
wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 6:00 PM Alexandre Rossi  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every
>> 2-3
>> > hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze,
>> like
>> > opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.
>>
>> I would suggest:
>> - try to get more debugging info using SysRQ keys [1]
>> - try to get more debugging info using netconsole[2] (needs wired
>> connection)
>> - try another OS (Ubuntu live CD, Windows) to rule out hardware problem
>>
>
> following the suggestion to try another OS i booted the computer with
> ubuntu 22.4 live usb, i'm working with since yesterday with no issues. i
> have enough memory so i installed some of the applications i use like
> slack,zoom,terminator and more, i even installed intellij idea and worked
> on my project for hours. zoom works with video ,slack works, there is no
> freeze , the computer is up with ubuntu 22.4 for almost 24 hours and
> everything looks ok.
> So i guess there is no hardware problem.
> So i don't know what to do, I'm thinking to reinstall debian but I'm not
> sure the problem will disappear because it may be something with the kernel
> of some package.
>

Try booting with Debian 11 Bullseye live images.
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.6.0-live+nonfree/amd64/iso-hybrid/
If
all your hardware works with Bullseye then go with it. Debian testing is
nice but it can from time to time get hosed. Since you have been running
testing since Bullseye was in testing it should be good to go for you.

I have debian testing running on AMD Ryzen 7 4700U with Radeon Graphics
with 16 Gig's of RAM and I have had some shell crashes recently. The
background turns grey and everything freezes except the mouse. I am able to
switch to a command line terminal without issue. TOP and free -h both show
that I have lots of available resources and there isn't any one run away
process using all my resources.

I am also having a problem with KDE's instant messenger complaining that I
do not have kaccounts-integration installed. I tried reinstalling it and it
still reports that it is not installed. Trying to launch "Instant Messaging
Settings" caused the system shell to crash and appear to be locked up. The
mouse still moves just fine.

I would move to Bullseye but I need Firmware in Bookworm to run my Sound
and WiFi. I am not a fan of backports, I have never had a good experience
with it. Installing software with backports is no trouble but keeping them
up to date is an issue because it does not automatically want to install
newer versions even when the package was installed form backports.



>
>> [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html
>> [2] https://debamax.com/blog/2019/01/03/debugging-with-netconsole/
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[David Wright]

On Tue 31 Jan 2023 at 14:41:24 (+), Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 6:00 PM Alexandre Rossi  wrote:
> > > In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every
> > 2-3
> > > hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze,
> > like
> > > opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.
> >
> > I would suggest:
> > - try to get more debugging info using SysRQ keys [1]
> > - try to get more debugging info using netconsole[2] (needs wired
> > connection)
> > - try another OS (Ubuntu live CD, Windows) to rule out hardware problem
> >
> 
> following the suggestion to try another OS i booted the computer with
> ubuntu 22.4 live usb, i'm working with since yesterday with no issues. i
> have enough memory so i installed some of the applications i use like
> slack,zoom,terminator and more, i even installed intellij idea and worked
> on my project for hours. zoom works with video ,slack works, there is no
> freeze , the computer is up with ubuntu 22.4 for almost 24 hours and
> everything looks ok.
> So i guess there is no hardware problem.
> So i don't know what to do, I'm thinking to reinstall debian but I'm not
> sure the problem will disappear because it may be something with the kernel
> of some package.

Earlier you wrote "I've been using this laptop for the past 3 years
with the same setup with debian testing since its new", which means
that you should be able to run this machine with bullseye.

If you run testing, do full-upgrades, and expect full-upgrades are
going to fix things, then you might be better off sticking with
the stable distribution, assuming you were to go back to Debian.

Cheers,
David.

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz]

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 6:00 PM Alexandre Rossi  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every
> 2-3
> > hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze,
> like
> > opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.
>
> I would suggest:
> - try to get more debugging info using SysRQ keys [1]
> - try to get more debugging info using netconsole[2] (needs wired
> connection)
> - try another OS (Ubuntu live CD, Windows) to rule out hardware problem
>

following the suggestion to try another OS i booted the computer with
ubuntu 22.4 live usb, i'm working with since yesterday with no issues. i
have enough memory so i installed some of the applications i use like
slack,zoom,terminator and more, i even installed intellij idea and worked
on my project for hours. zoom works with video ,slack works, there is no
freeze , the computer is up with ubuntu 22.4 for almost 24 hours and
everything looks ok.
So i guess there is no hardware problem.
So i don't know what to do, I'm thinking to reinstall debian but I'm not
sure the problem will disappear because it may be something with the kernel
of some package.


>
> [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html
> [2] https://debamax.com/blog/2019/01/03/debugging-with-netconsole/
>
> Alex
>
>

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz]

I can get lspci listing with Gnome terminal with no problem , but when i
try with Terminator, the second i press the enter key the computer freezes,
well most of the time at least once it succeeded with Terminator too.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 8:43 PM Charles Curley <
charlescur...@charlescurley.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:59:19 +0200
> Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz  wrote:
>
> > In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens
> > every 2-3 hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause
> > a freeze, like opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.
>
> lspci leads me to wonder if lspci is triggering a hardware flaw
> somewhere on the PCI bus. And Zoom might do the same thing: I
> conjecture that it looks for cameras on the PCI and USB busses.
>
> Does it always freeze at the same point in the lspci listing? What
> happens if you do a verbose listing? 'lspci -v'
>
> Can you get a complete lspci listing using an older version of Linux,
> or a live CD version (e.g. finnix)?
>
>
>
> --
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>
>

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz]

I tried SysRQ and there is no response when the computer freezes. i tried
before freeze to make sure i know how to use it and it worked, i tried b
and k and it worked. but when the computer freezes there is nothing, no
response.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 8:00 PM Alexandre Rossi  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every
> 2-3
> > hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze,
> like
> > opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.
>
> I would suggest:
> - try to get more debugging info using SysRQ keys [1]
> - try to get more debugging info using netconsole[2] (needs wired
> connection)
> - try another OS (Ubuntu live CD, Windows) to rule out hardware problem
>
> [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html
> [2] https://debamax.com/blog/2019/01/03/debugging-with-netconsole/
>
> Alex
>
>

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Charles Curley]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:59:19 +0200
Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz  wrote:

> In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens
> every 2-3 hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause
> a freeze, like opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.

lspci leads me to wonder if lspci is triggering a hardware flaw
somewhere on the PCI bus. And Zoom might do the same thing: I
conjecture that it looks for cameras on the PCI and USB busses.

Does it always freeze at the same point in the lspci listing? What
happens if you do a verbose listing? 'lspci -v'

Can you get a complete lspci listing using an older version of Linux,
or a live CD version (e.g. finnix)?



-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Alexandre Rossi]

Hi,

> In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every 2-3
> hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze, like
> opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.

I would suggest:
- try to get more debugging info using SysRQ keys [1]
- try to get more debugging info using netconsole[2] (needs wired connection)
- try another OS (Ubuntu live CD, Windows) to rule out hardware problem

[1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html
[2] https://debamax.com/blog/2019/01/03/debugging-with-netconsole/

Alex

laptop freezes randomly - please help!! dell xps 15 with debian testing

[Shalom Ben-Zvii Kazaz]

Hello,
Sorry for starting a new conversation, the previous one didn't help me and
I hope that now I have more details.
I don't have any idea how to approach that, its my workstation and the past
few days I just couldn't really work.
I'm also not experienced with this mailing list and a bit confused how to
reply here. I hope this time I will do it right.

In the past week my laptop freezes randomly, I can say it happens every 2-3
hours. but there are actions that consistently always cause a freeze, like
opening Zoom or executing lspci in Terminator.

Its a dell xps 15 7590, Intel® Core™ i9-9980HK × 16, 64.0 GiB memory, Mesa
Intel® UHD Graphics 630 (CFL GT2),
The laptop is attached to a dell docking station wd19 with an external
monitor and keyboard and external mouse.
It's running Debian GNU/Linux bookworm (debian testing) with Gnome.
I've been using this laptop for the past 3 years with the same setup with
debian testing since its new.
two month ago an official Dell technician replaced the keyboard and fans
and cooling board while still under Dell warranty.

The freeze started a few days ago after I did full-upgrade. Since then I
did full-upgrade again a few times hoping that it's a bug that was fixed
but it's still freezing.

I always have a few projects open in Jetbrains Intellij idea and rider. I
configure Intellij with 20GB memory, always a few browser windows open with
many tabs, usually brave and chromium. I always have a few windows and tabs
open in Terminator. and more.
The freeze always happens as a result of some UI action. examples are when
i tried to open settings, or some action in Intellij idea. It's completely
random and happens with other applications too.
there are actions that always cause a freeze, i tried that again and again
restarting the computer every time and it's always the same result, and
something suspicious with terminator:
trying to open the Zoom app always causes a freeze, I use zoom regularly
and there was never a problem until a few days ago.
trying to execute the command lspci in Terminator always causes a freeze,
everything else in terminator works. executing lspci in Gnome terminal
works, that looks to me very suspicious. I tried that at least 10 times to
make sure that it's not a coincidence and it's always the same, typing
lspci in Terminator and then Enter freezes the computer, but not in Gnome
terminal.

What I did:
As suggested to me here, I connected an ssh session with top and
journalctrl -f  from another computer and waited for a freeze. I have the
latest messages from both at the bottom of this message.

I started the computer with a gnome classic session, same thing, computer
freeze. started with xfce session, same thing.

I ran the Dell pre-boot performance test including a full memory test and
it passed OK.
I removed all the devices connected like external mouse and keyboard and
same thing.
I detached the laptop from the docking station and the computer freezes
when trying to open zoom or execute lspci in Terminator.

I hope someone can help in finding the cause of that freeze.

this is info i collected
This is journalctrl from another computer in ssh session just before the
computer freeze, the freeze was exactly at 16:39

Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
java.lang.RuntimeException: Cannot invoke (class=,
method=projectClosing, topic=ProjectManagerListener)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.util.messages.impl.MessageBusImplKt.invokeListener(MessageBusImpl.kt:639)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.util.messages.impl.MessageBusImplKt.executeOrAddToQueue(MessageBusImpl.kt:466)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.util.messages.impl.ToDirectChildrenMessagePublisher.publish$intellij_platform_core(CompositeMessageBus.kt:295)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.util.messages.impl.MessagePublisher.invoke(MessageBusImpl.kt:421)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at jdk.proxy2/jdk.proxy2.$Proxy97.projectClosing(Unknown Source)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.openapi.project.impl.ProjectManagerImplKt.fireProjectClosing(ProjectManagerImpl.kt:1040)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.openapi.project.impl.ProjectManagerImplKt.access$fireProjectClosing(ProjectManagerImpl.kt:1)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.openapi.project.impl.ProjectManagerImpl.closeProject(ProjectManagerImpl.kt:426)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.openapi.project.impl.ProjectManagerImpl.closeProject$default(ProjectManagerImpl.kt:369)
Jan 30 16:38:57 xps-debian jetbrains-idea-ce.desktop[82252]:
at 
com.intellij.openapi.project.impl.ProjectManagerImpl.closeAndDisposeAllProjects(ProjectManagerImpl.kt:362)

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Robbi Nespu]

The data also on salsa now
https://salsa.debian.org/linuxhw/TestCoverage/-/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11


--
Robbi Nespu 
D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
https://robbinespu.gitlab.io | https://mstdn.social/@robbinespu

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

> on 24 Jul 2021 16:27:23 -0400, Jim Popovitch  wrote
> 
>> Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> 
> the package are dump and store at
> https://salsa.debian.org/debian/hw-probe by debian package maintainer,
> maybe the upstream author (Andrey Ponomarenko) want to centralize
> testcoverage report using same repo?
> 
> i have issued https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/issues/1 about the
> ideas of using salsa for debian testcoverage
> 
> The tool using dual license (LGPL-2.1-or-later OR BSD-4-Clause), You can
> choose between one of them but not sure about the testcoverage reports
> 
> --
> Robbi Nespu 
> D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
> https://robbinespu.gitlab.io | https://mstdn.social/@robbinespu

The report is now available in Debian Salsa: 
https://salsa.debian.org/linuxhw/TestCoverage/-/tree/main/Dist/Debian_11

The license is CC-BY-4.0.

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[David Wright]

On Thu 29 Jul 2021 at 12:54:14 (+0300), Anssi Saari wrote:
> Andrey Ponomarenko  writes:
> 
> > LiveCDs for quick testing:
> > https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/
> 
> Well, are these images bootable via Grub directly and if so then what
> parameters are needed? Making testing easy eases testing...

As the images are iso-hybrids, you should be able to boot
them from a USB stick or a CD, and in a machine that boots
via UEFI or BIOS. Grub shouldn't be involved, as iso-hybrids
use isolinux.

Do you /particlarly/ want to use Grub? If so, it's possible,
but far more involved, and is basically a workaround if you
have no CD burner /and/ can't boot the machine from USB.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Anssi Saari]

Andrey Ponomarenko  writes:

> LiveCDs for quick testing:
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Well, are these images bootable via Grub directly and if so then what
parameters are needed? Making testing easy eases testing...

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Chuck Zmudzinski]

On 7/24/2021 4:14 PM, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:

Hello!

Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling 
out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: 
https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 

The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but 
I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone 
can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list 
using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe 
.
You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page 
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ 
.

Andrey
I just added my 7-year-old ASRock Desktop running bullseye to the 
linuxhw database. I have been running Debian on it since Wheezy was the 
stable version and I have been testing bullseye on it since bullseye 
reached the soft freeze back in February. It works well and I just 
migrated bullseye to my SSD so it boots from the SSD and bullseye boots 
to the gnome desktop as fast as buster did from the SSD. The only issue 
I have seen with bullseye is that when I run bullseye as a Dom0 on the 
Xen hypervisor (using the Xen 4.14 package for bullseye), for some 
reason the system will not power down. The operating system does stop 
but the power stays on and I need to hit the reset button and then the 
power button to make it actually power down. Bullseye is the first 
version of Debian to exhibit this issue which only occurs when running 
bullseye as a Dom0 on Xen - bullseye powers down normally when running 
on the bare metal.


Chuck

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

- все Intermediate results will be published one week before the release (~Aug 7) - it's best time to contribute. But in the last week the report will still be updated daily till the release. After the release the report will be updated monthly. 28.07.2021, 22:59, "paolo gagini" :Hi,what is the last day to take the test?thank you.PaoloOn 28/07/21 21:45, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:27.07.2021, 23:43, "Marco Möller" :On 24.07.21 22:14, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote: Hello!  Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe. You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/. AndreyHello!Many of my hardware components in the tested laptop become "detected"but not marked as "works", although I can confirm that they do workflawlessly. Obviously the hw-probe did not catch all information aspositive as possible. Anything I can do about it?Marco You can set status to 'works' manually in the review. Look for REVIEW green button on the probe page. Thanks. Andrey -- 
FC7087037FBE1334  Andrey 

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[paolo gagini]

Hi,

what is the last day to take the test?

thank you.

Paolo

On 28/07/21 21:45, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:

27.07.2021, 23:43, "Marco Möller" :

On 24.07.21 22:14, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:

 Hello!

 Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by
filling out
 the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:
 https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11
 The development team only has a limited set of hardware for
tests, but
 I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the
community. Anyone
 can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to
the list
 using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe.
 You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
 https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.
 Andrey


Hello!
Many of my hardware components in the tested laptop become "detected"
but not marked as "works", although I can confirm that they do work
flawlessly. Obviously the hw-probe did not catch all information as
positive as possible. Anything I can do about it?
Marco

You can set status to 'works' manually in the review. Look for REVIEW 
green button on the probe page.

Thanks.
Andrey


--
FC7087037FBE1334

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

27.07.2021, 23:43, "Marco Möller" :On 24.07.21 22:14, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote: Hello!  Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe. You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/. AndreyHello!Many of my hardware components in the tested laptop become "detected"but not marked as "works", although I can confirm that they do workflawlessly. Obviously the hw-probe did not catch all information aspositive as possible. Anything I can do about it?Marco You can set status to 'works' manually in the review. Look for REVIEW green button on the probe page. Thanks. Andrey 

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Marco Möller]

On 24.07.21 22:14, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:

Hello!

Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out 
the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: 
https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 

The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but 
I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone 
can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list 
using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe 
.
You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page 
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ 
.

Andrey


Hello!
Many of my hardware components in the tested laptop become "detected" 
but not marked as "works", although I can confirm that they do work 
flawlessly. Obviously the hw-probe did not catch all information as 
positive as possible. Anything I can do about it?

Marco

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[piorunz]

On 24/07/2021 21:14, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:

Hello!

Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out
the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:
https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11

The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but
I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone
can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list
using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe
.
You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
.
Andrey


Thanks for this, I tested and uploaded results on several computers
which are running Debian 10 and some 11 already.

--

With kindest regards, piorunz.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 05:18:57PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:53:13 +0200
>  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
> > > pretty much by definition.
> > 
> > License restrictions apply.
> 
> Of course, but I didn't think that hosting the code on Github gives
> Microsoft more rights over it than if it were hosted somewhere else. Is
> there anything in the Github terms of service that grants Microsoft
> more rights over my code than the terms of the applicable license? And
> if you're assuming that Microsoft won't respect license terms, then
> once again, it won't matter where the code is hosted.

Whether training ML models on GNU GPL software and using their results
in code with an incompatible license (or the whole other way around,
using models trained on proprietary software to inject snippets into
free sowftware [1]) is OK or not is a discussion which is just beginning.
Here are two examples, by Matthew Garrett [2] and Julia Reda [3],
two persons who are known to think hard about free software licenses.

Enjoy :)

[1] Although I have the strong hunch (why, oh, why?) that Microsoft
   will be much more respectful of proprietary licenses than of free
   ones.

[2] https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/57615.html

[3] 
https://juliareda.eu/2021/07/github-copilot-is-not-infringing-your-copyright/


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Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Robbi Nespu]

on 24 Jul 2021 16:27:23 -0400, Jim Popovitch  wrote

Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?


the package are dump and store at 
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/hw-probe by debian package maintainer, 
maybe the upstream author (Andrey Ponomarenko) want to centralize 
testcoverage report using same repo?


i have issued https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/issues/1 about the 
ideas of using salsa for debian testcoverage


The tool using dual license (LGPL-2.1-or-later OR BSD-4-Clause), You can 
choose between one of them but not sure about the testcoverage reports


--
Robbi Nespu 
D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
https://robbinespu.gitlab.io | https://mstdn.social/@robbinespu

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Kenneth Parker]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 4:23 PM Andrey Ponomarenko <
andrewponomare...@yandex.ru> wrote:

> Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out
> the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:
> https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11
> 
>

By a "Stroke of luck", I have been running "Almost Production" Bullseye
systems since halfway through the Testing Process.  Any System that runs a
Qemu-KVM Guest is now running on Bullseye.

I first created a Qemu-KVM Guest under Mint 20, promptly ran out of Disk
Space, and so wanted to Import it to Debian (after developing a HUGE
dislike of Mint 20, mainly due to their Install Process).  *However*, I was
unable to Import that Qemu Guest to Buster (which I was running then),
because Buster refused the Import due to a lower Release Level for Qemu.
So, I bit the Bullet and am Quite Happy with Bullseye (though there were a
few Bumps, some of which were handled on this List, and one that became a
Debian Bug Report).

So I will make my Entries, via that Github Link for three HP Systems and
three Lenovo Laptops.  As a bonus, I will dust off an Ancient Gaming Laptop
and see how far I get, adding it too.  One note:  Some are upset over
Github.  I remain neutral, even to running a Windows 10 Guest on my HP
Elitedesk 705 G1 under Bullseye.

 You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
> https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.
>
> Andrey
>

 Kenneth Parker

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Celejar]

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:53:13 +0200
 wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
> > pretty much by definition.
> 
> License restrictions apply.

Of course, but I didn't think that hosting the code on Github gives
Microsoft more rights over it than if it were hosted somewhere else. Is
there anything in the Github terms of service that grants Microsoft
more rights over my code than the terms of the applicable license? And
if you're assuming that Microsoft won't respect license terms, then
once again, it won't matter where the code is hosted.

Celejar

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:49:19PM -0400, Celejar wrote:

[...]

> Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
> pretty much by definition.

License restrictions apply.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Celejar]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:48:03 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 25 July 2021 15:36:26 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:43:10PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > > On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > > > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> > > >
> > > > ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(
> > >
> > > I went to
> > >
> > >   https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan
> > >
> > > and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
> > > Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
> > > users to go there?
> >
> > It is subtle, and you might disagree.
> >
> > I always wondered why github was worth 7.5 billion to Microsoft [1].
> > Surely it seemed a bit steep for "just" generating good will in the
> > "open source" (as they choose to call it) community?
> >
> > Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
> > git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
> > as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
> > shiny web interface.
> >
> > This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
> > as much distance as possible between github and myself.
> >
> > But still, 7.5B?
> >
> > Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
> > get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
> > license (only the service is available for mere mortals).
> >
> > They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
> > at least, they hope to have it.
> >
> > Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
> > me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
> > wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
> > just by their shareholder value :-)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github#Acquisition_by_Microsoft
> > [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot
> > [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict
> >
> >  - t
> 
> +100 Tomas, as it gives them free access to "borrow" some of the best 
> code out there. So the comparison to the underhanded compuserve and 

Anyone can "borrow" open source code, regardless of where it's hosted,
pretty much by definition.

Celejar

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 26 July 2021 02:51:40 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:48:03PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> [...]
>

> Us old jeezers, always so full of history ;-)

We lived it.

> With a tip o' the hat to Rudyard Kipling [1].
>
> But I think that's enough off-topic, so I'll stop here :-)

;-)

> Cheers
>
> [1] https://www.classicshorts.com/stories/htlghs.html
>
>  - t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:48:03PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[...]

> +100 Tomas, as it gives them free access to "borrow" some of the best 
> code out there. So the comparison to the underhanded compuserve and 
> apple (remember gif and firewire?) as a future dagger in our back is 
> very real. The face we see is ok, so far. But be prepared to face them 
> in court with evidence predating any copyright claims they may come up 
> with.

Us old jeezers, always so full of history ;-)

> Personally, that leapard has not changed its spots anymore than a real 
> one can.

  "They scuttled for days and days till they came to a great
  forest, 'sclusively full of trees and bushes and stripy, speckly,
  patchy-blatchy shadows, and there they hid: and after another
  long time, what with standing half in the shade and half out
  of it, and what with the slippery-slidy shadows of the trees
  falling on them, the Giraffe grew blotchy, and the Zebra grew
  stripy, and the Eland and the Koodoo grew darker, with little
  wavy grey lines on their backs like bark on a tree trunk; and so,
  though you could hear them and smell them, you could very seldom
  see them, and then only when you knew precisely where to look."

With a tip o' the hat to Rudyard Kipling [1].

But I think that's enough off-topic, so I'll stop here :-)

Cheers

[1] https://www.classicshorts.com/stories/htlghs.html

 - t


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Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 25 July 2021 15:36:26 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:43:10PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> > >
> > > ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(
> >
> > I went to
> >
> >   https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan
> >
> > and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
> > Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
> > users to go there?
>
> It is subtle, and you might disagree.
>
> I always wondered why github was worth 7.5 billion to Microsoft [1].
> Surely it seemed a bit steep for "just" generating good will in the
> "open source" (as they choose to call it) community?
>
> Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
> git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
> as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
> shiny web interface.
>
> This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
> as much distance as possible between github and myself.
>
> But still, 7.5B?
>
> Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
> get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
> license (only the service is available for mere mortals).
>
> They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
> at least, they hope to have it.
>
> Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
> me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
> wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
> just by their shareholder value :-)
>
> Cheers
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github#Acquisition_by_Microsoft
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict
>
>  - t

+100 Tomas, as it gives them free access to "borrow" some of the best 
code out there. So the comparison to the underhanded compuserve and 
apple (remember gif and firewire?) as a future dagger in our back is 
very real. The face we see is ok, so far. But be prepared to face them 
in court with evidence predating any copyright claims they may come up 
with.

Personally, that leapard has not changed its spots anymore than a real 
one can.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 09:21:18PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 21:36:26 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > It is subtle, and you might disagree.
> 
> My disagreement is based on my pragmetic attitude. Nobody is out to
> get us. Assume the best. A good Debian attitude, IMHO.

This would be a misunderstanding. I don't think Microsoft is out
to "get us". They couldn't care less. They're only out to maximise
their bottom line. If that involves making their customers dependent,
so be it.

Regarding their bottom line, /I/ couldn't care less, so it is somewhat
reciprocal :-)

[...]

> Thank you for your coherent argument. I appreciate the concerns. For
> now I can work with github in the limited way I do.

I'm glad that it seems to make kind of sense. I found it difficult
to find words for it.

> I like Asimov. I like the reference. Like 1984, is it the present or
> the future?

Yeah, the strength of that story is that the judgement is left to the
reader.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Brian]

On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 21:36:26 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:43:10PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> > > 
> > > ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(
> > 
> > I went to
> > 
> >   https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan
> > 
> > and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
> > Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
> > users to go there?
> 
> It is subtle, and you might disagree.

My disagreement is based on my pragmetic attitude. Nobody is out to
get us. Assume the best. A good Debian attitude, IMHO.

> I always wondered why github was worth 7.5 billion to Microsoft [1].
> Surely it seemed a bit steep for "just" generating good will in the
> "open source" (as they choose to call it) community?
> 
> Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
> git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
> as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
> shiny web interface.
> 
> This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
> as much distance as possible between github and myself.
> 
> But still, 7.5B?
> 
> Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
> get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
> license (only the service is available for mere mortals).
> 
> They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
> at least, they hope to have it.
> 
> Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
> me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
> wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
> just by their shareholder value :-)

Thank you for your coherent argument. I appreciate the concerns. For
now I can work with github in the limited way I do.

I like Asimov. I like the reference. Like 1984, is it the present or
the future?

-- 
Brian.

Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 03:58:13PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,

[...]

> In the next ten years, people will be coding less and less as we do it.
> We'll drive some AI process for coding.

For now, it's web frameworks :-/

> If you speak French, I'd suggest this video.

I'll have a look (although I tend to stay away from youtube; luckily
there's youtube-dl).

> Ethics of AI and risk to humanity.
> Without Facebook dataset, I doubt Cambridge Analytica would have been
> able to do something. And as AI become more powerful, it will be easier
> and easier to outsmart the least smart ones.

Yeah. Have a look at GPT-3 (the thing used in git copilot). It's somewhat
scary already.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: [OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-25 3:36 p.m., to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
> git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
> as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
> shiny web interface.
> 
They managed to create two things :
A central point of failure in the workflow (Github)
A user base willing to pay the day it will become pay-only.
> This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
> as much distance as possible between github and myself.
> 
> But still, 7.5B?
> 
> Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
> get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
> license (only the service is available for mere mortals).
> 
> They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
> at least, they hope to have it.
> 
In the next ten years, people will be coding less and less as we do it.
We'll drive some AI process for coding.
And when it comes to AI, algorithm may have some important role but
what's worth the most is the dataset for training.
And this is nearly all in the private sector now (owned by big corporation).

If you speak French, I'd suggest this video.

Ethics of AI and risk to humanity.
Without Facebook dataset, I doubt Cambridge Analytica would have been
able to do something. And as AI become more powerful, it will be easier
and easier to outsmart the least smart ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3WOPKNvbt8
> Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
> me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
> wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
> just by their shareholder value :-)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github#Acquisition_by_Microsoft
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict
> 
>  - t
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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[OT] Why I don't like github [was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real] hardware

[tomas]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:43:10PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > 
> > > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> > 
> > ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(
> 
> I went to
> 
>   https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan
> 
> and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
> Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
> users to go there?

It is subtle, and you might disagree.

I always wondered why github was worth 7.5 billion to Microsoft [1].
Surely it seemed a bit steep for "just" generating good will in the
"open source" (as they choose to call it) community?

Of course, github succeeded in one thing: they managed to centralise
git, which is inherently decentral. Many people these days see github
as a synonym to git and can't bother to use git without github's
shiny web interface.

This was, even before the acquisition, enough reason for me to keep
as much distance as possible between github and myself.

But still, 7.5B?

Now, with github copilot [2], things start making sense: github users
get support from an AI (GPT-3) for which Microsoft has an exclusive
license (only the service is available for mere mortals).

They now have a strategic position on how code is written "out there",
at least, they hope to have it.

Personally, I very much dislike the situation. It very much reminds
me of "The Evitable Conflict" [3] from Isaac Asimov, with the little
wart that Microsoft isn't bound by the Three Laws of Robotics, but
just by their shareholder value :-)

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Github#Acquisition_by_Microsoft
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GitHub_Copilot
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evitable_Conflict

 - t


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Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Brian]

On Sun 25 Jul 2021 at 09:34:42 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
> > Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?
> 
> ...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(

I went to

  https://github.com/alexpevzner/sane-airscan

and found it full of very useful information. You will explain why
Microsoft's involvement in the site should make me wary of advising
users to go there?

-- 
Brian.

Hardware life expectancy (was: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware)

[Stefan Monnier]

> Should I participate if my laptop is 10 years old?

I fondly remember showing my 2003 Thinkpad X30 to my students when it
turned 10 years old.  Given that I grew up in the glory days of Dennard
scaling, the standard rule of thumb was that you wanted a new machine
every 3 years or so and a machine older than 5 years was just
utter crap.

So being able to still make good use of a 10 year old machine
seemed surreal.

Nowadays, I'm still planning to use that same Thinkpad X30 to display
PDFs in the classroom (when I get to meet students physically again),
and more than half of my machine are older than 10 years old.
Better yet, they don't seem significantly slower than my newer machines.

So, yes, 10 year old machines and still very much relevant.


Stefan

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Nate Bargmann]

I've been running Bullseye on a Lenovo T410 (2522-WUZ) for the past 18
months.  I also updated my tower, Lenovo M73 (MJ00D7ZZ) earlier this
year.  It is working quite well.

- Nate

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Web: https://www.n0nb.us
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Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Erwan David]

Le 25/07/2021 à 14:33, Andrey Ponomarenko a écrit :
> - все
>  
> 25.07.2021, 14:30, "kaye n" :
>
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:23 AM Andrey Ponomarenko
>  wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by
> filling out the community-driven list of tested hardware
> configurations:
> https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11
>  
> The development team only has a limited set of hardware for
> tests, but I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in
> the community. Anyone can easily add their computers / laptops
> or servers info to the list using the package
> https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe.
>  
> You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
> https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.
>  
> Andrey
>  
>
> Should I participate if my laptop is 10 years old? 
>
>  
> Sure. According to latest stats
> https://github.com/linuxhw/Trends#mfg-year about 20% of Linux users
> have 10 years old hardware and older.
>  
> Andrey
>  

I run on testing till sometime, should I answer based on this ?

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Charles Curley]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:30:22 +0800
kaye n  wrote:

> Should I participate if my laptop is 10 years old?

Yes, please. Many folks use Debian to extend the lives of machines that
other OSes no longer support. I have some 2007 machines I've been
testing.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

- все 25.07.2021, 14:30, "kaye n" :On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:23 AM Andrey Ponomarenko  wrote:Hello!Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe. You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/. Andrey Should I participate if my laptop is 10 years old?  Sure. According to latest stats https://github.com/linuxhw/Trends#mfg-year about 20% of Linux users have 10 years old hardware and older. Andrey 

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[Andrey Ponomarenko]

LiveCDs for quick testing: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-live-builds/amd64/iso-hybrid/ Although full-fledged installations are more desirable. 24.07.2021, 23:23, "Andrey Ponomarenko" :Hello!Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations: https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11 The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but I'm sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone can easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list using the package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe. You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.Andrey 

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[kaye n]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:23 AM Andrey Ponomarenko <
andrewponomare...@yandex.ru> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling out
> the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:
> https://github.com/linuxhw/TestCoverage/tree/master/Dist/Debian_11
> 
>
> The development team only has a limited set of hardware for tests, but I'm
> sure we can find almost any configuration in the community. Anyone can
> easily add their computers / laptops or servers info to the list using the
> package https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/hw-probe.
>
> You can download Debian 11 release candidate on the page
> https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/.
>
> Andrey
>
>
Should I participate if my laptop is 10 years old?

Re: Please help to test latest Debian 11 release candidate on real hardware

[tomas]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 04:27:23PM -0400, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2021-07-24 at 23:14 +0300, Andrey Ponomarenko wrote:
> > Hello!
> > 
> > Let's help developers to test upcoming Debian version 11 by filling
> > out the community-driven list of tested hardware configurations:

[...]

Good idea, but...

> Why isn't this on Salsa instead of a Microsoft site?

...you're right. I won't touch github unless I'm forced to :-(

Cheers
 - t


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