Re: DNS query question

[Geert Stappers]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 06:42:04AM +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 12.06.2024 um 10:51:45 Uhr schrieb Jeff Peng:
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > I have made a successful query in one of my VPS as the following.
> > 
> > ~$ dig 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org
> > ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> > ;235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org.IN  A
> > 
> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org. 852 IN  A   127.0.0.10
> > 
> > ;; Query time: 0 msec
> > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53)
> > 
> > 
> > But, the same query wouldn't success in another VPS as follows.
> > 
> > $ dig 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org
> > ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> > ;235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org.IN  A
> > 
> > ;; Query time: 1 msec
> > ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53)
> > 
> > 
> > The returned result is "NXDOMAIN".
> > 
> > Both nodes use systemd-resolve as DNS subresolver.
> > 
> > Do you know what's the reason behind this?
> 
> Spamhaus restricts queries from public resolvers.
> https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/email-security/if-you-query-the-legacy-dnsbls-via-digitalocean-move-to-spamhaus-technologys-free-data-query-service/#the-headlines-for-those-in-a-hurry
> 
> 
> > Thanks.

Thanks for keeping context
Thanks for noting that response text is below previous text. Yes, keep
the discussion order.


Regards
Geert Stappers
Aware of people in different time zones
Creating awareness for that not all messages are read
Asking for standalone messages
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

Re: DNS query question

[Marco Moock]

Am 12.06.2024 um 10:51:45 Uhr schrieb Jeff Peng:

> Do you know what's the reason behind this?

Spamhaus restricts queries from public resolvers.
https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/email-security/if-you-query-the-legacy-dnsbls-via-digitalocean-move-to-spamhaus-technologys-free-data-query-service/#the-headlines-for-those-in-a-hurry


-- 
Gruß
Marco

Send unsolicited bulk mail to 1718182305mu...@cartoonies.org

DNS query question

[Jeff Peng]

Hello list,

I have made a successful query in one of my VPS as the following.

~$ dig 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org

; <<>> DiG 9.16.48-Ubuntu <<>> 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 2160
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org.IN  A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org. 852 IN  A   127.0.0.10

;; Query time: 0 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53)
;; WHEN: Wed Jun 12 02:45:16 UTC 2024
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 75



But, the same query wouldn't success in another VPS as follows.

$ dig 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org

; <<>> DiG 9.16.1-Ubuntu <<>> 235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 15831
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 1

;; OPT PSEUDOSECTION:
; EDNS: version: 0, flags:; udp: 65494
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;235.84.36.104.zen.spamhaus.org.IN  A

;; Query time: 1 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.53#53(127.0.0.53)
;; WHEN: Wed Jun 12 10:45:41 HKT 2024
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 59


The returned result is "NXDOMAIN".

Both nodes use systemd-resolve as DNS subresolver.

Do you know what's the reason behind this?

Thanks.

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[fxkl47BF]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Bret Busby wrote:

> On 4/6/24 03:26, Chris M wrote:
>> Bret Busby wrote:
>>> On 4/6/24 03:08, Chris M wrote:
 I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox
 format to store emails.
 It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.

 Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the
 mailbox a certain size?
 or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?

 The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1
 on Windows 10. And you had
 to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.

 I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done
 reading emails.

 Right now my "2024 Archives" folder is at:

 Number Of Messages: 4776

 Size: 300 MB

>>>
>>> I do not know about the mbox file format in email applications, but,
>>> if you want a powerful email client, as I believe that I have
>>> previously stated, I use, for downloading, storing, and, archiving
>>> email, the most powerful email client that I have found - alpine,
>>> previously known as pine.
>>>
>>> The folder properties for the applicable stored messages folder, show
>>> "Total count of files: 13720
>>> Total size of files: 24.5GB"
>>>
>>> I think that I have a couple of hundred filters (it could be more),
>>> involving some thousands of filter parameter field values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> Bret Busby
>>> Armadale
>>> Western Australia
>>> (UTC+0800)
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Bret,
>>
>> I just googled Alpine and, as y'all say in Australia... CRIKEY! its a
>> Terminal Email client that uses IMAP. interesting.
>>
>>
>
> And, in goggling alpine
>
> "
> Alpine supports IMAP, POP, SMTP, NNTP and LDAP protocols natively.
> Although it does not support composing HTML email, it can display emails
> that only have HTML content as text. Alpine can read and write to
> folders in several formats, including Maildir, mbox, the mh format used
> by the mh message handling system, mbx, and MIX.
> "
> - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_(email_client)
>
> So, it appears to be able to deal with your mbox thingy.
>
> alpine is available through synaptic, if you want to try it, and, the
> alpine mailing list includes the current named developer, and, others
> who are highly knowledgeable of alpine.
>
> And, alpine's predecessor, pine, has been around, and usable, since
> before the Internet.
>
> My current alpine email archive goes back more than 20 years. I was
> using pine (and elm) on an IBM 3081 mainframe, in the early 1990's.

i started using pine in the 90's on hpux
still using alpine and no problems

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Bret Busby]

On 4/6/24 04:34, Chris M wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:

alpine is available through synaptic, if you want to try it,


Hi Bret,

So you use POP 3 too huh, if your archive goes back 20 years?

I installed ALPINE and couldn't get it to connect to my server. I just 
kept getting " INVALID PASSWORD"


Even though I watched a Youtube video and followed their directions to a T.

imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=chris

I tried with an app password, still errored.

Then I tried:

imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=ch...@cwm030.com

used the same app password

FAILED.

Tried typing the password in manually.

FAILED.

Then I tried imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=FASTMAILUSERNAME

Typed in password.

FAILED

Then I tried imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=fmusern...@fastmail.com

Typed in password by hand

FAILED.

* shrugs*



Here is a suggestion for you...

1. Visit http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

2. Subscribe.

3. Forward the above message to the list, and ask why you cannot log in.

:)

Oh, and, let us know the outcome...


Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:

alpine is available through synaptic, if you want to try it,


Hi Bret,

So you use POP 3 too huh, if your archive goes back 20 years?

I installed ALPINE and couldn't get it to connect to my server. I just 
kept getting " INVALID PASSWORD"


Even though I watched a Youtube video and followed their directions to a T.

imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=chris

I tried with an app password, still errored.

Then I tried:

imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=ch...@cwm030.com

used the same app password

FAILED.

Tried typing the password in manually.

FAILED.

Then I tried imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=FASTMAILUSERNAME

Typed in password.

FAILED

Then I tried imap.fastmail.com/ssl/user=fmusern...@fastmail.com

Typed in password by hand

FAILED.

* shrugs*


THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Bret Busby]

On 4/6/24 03:26, Chris M wrote:




Hi Bret,

I just googled Alpine and, as y'all say in Australia... CRIKEY! i


Funnily enough, I do not remember  hearing anyone in Australia, say 
"crikey".


Maybe some do, in the eastern states, but, I do not remember hearing the 
word (if it is a real word) being spoken, or, written, other it than 
being the name of an online political web site.



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Bret Busby]

On 4/6/24 03:26, Chris M wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:

On 4/6/24 03:08, Chris M wrote:
I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox 
format to store emails.

It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.

Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the 
mailbox a certain size?

or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?

The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1 
on Windows 10. And you had

to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.

I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done 
reading emails.


Right now my "2024 Archives" folder is at:

Number Of Messages: 4776

Size: 300 MB



I do not know about the mbox file format in email applications, but, 
if you want a powerful email client, as I believe that I have 
previously stated, I use, for downloading, storing, and, archiving 
email, the most powerful email client that I have found - alpine, 
previously known as pine.


The folder properties for the applicable stored messages folder, show
"Total count of files: 13720
Total size of files: 24.5GB"

I think that I have a couple of hundred filters (it could be more), 
involving some thousands of filter parameter field values.





Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.



Hi Bret,

I just googled Alpine and, as y'all say in Australia... CRIKEY! its a 
Terminal Email client that uses IMAP. interesting.





And, in goggling alpine

"
Alpine supports IMAP, POP, SMTP, NNTP and LDAP protocols natively. 
Although it does not support composing HTML email, it can display emails 
that only have HTML content as text. Alpine can read and write to 
folders in several formats, including Maildir, mbox, the mh format used 
by the mh message handling system, mbx, and MIX.

"
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_(email_client)

So, it appears to be able to deal with your mbox thingy.

alpine is available through synaptic, if you want to try it, and, the 
alpine mailing list includes the current named developer, and, others 
who are highly knowledgeable of alpine.


And, alpine's predecessor, pine, has been around, and usable, since 
before the Internet.


My current alpine email archive goes back more than 20 years. I was 
using pine (and elm) on an IBM 3081 mainframe, in the early 1990's.



Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Chris M]

Bret Busby wrote:

On 4/6/24 03:08, Chris M wrote:
I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox 
format to store emails.

It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.

Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the 
mailbox a certain size?

or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?

The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1 
on Windows 10. And you had

to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.

I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done 
reading emails.


Right now my "2024 Archives" folder is at:

Number Of Messages: 4776

Size: 300 MB



I do not know about the mbox file format in email applications, but, 
if you want a powerful email client, as I believe that I have 
previously stated, I use, for downloading, storing, and, archiving 
email, the most powerful email client that I have found - alpine, 
previously known as pine.


The folder properties for the applicable stored messages folder, show
"Total count of files: 13720
Total size of files: 24.5GB"

I think that I have a couple of hundred filters (it could be more), 
involving some thousands of filter parameter field values.





Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.



Hi Bret,

I just googled Alpine and, as y'all say in Australia... CRIKEY! its a 
Terminal Email client that uses IMAP. interesting.




THANKS IN ADVANCE!

CHRIS

ch...@cwm030.com

* Lenovo ThinkCentre M710q*~~~* 1 TB SSD*~~~*15.5 GiB of ram*

~~* Q4OS Trinity Edition* ~~

Response to email clients query regarding mbox

[Bret Busby]

On 4/6/24 03:08, Chris M wrote:
I am needing a "refresher course" on mail clients that use the .mbox 
format to store emails.

It's been years since I've used this kind of mail client.

Is there any "dangers" I need to know about? Like, keeping the mailbox a 
certain size?

or a certain amount of emails per folder etc?

The last client I used, before I went FULL TIME LINUX, was Eudora 7.1 on 
Windows 10. And you had

to keep the .mbx files TINY TINY TINY or else, you'd face corruption.

I always go offline, and then compact my folders after I get done 
reading emails.


Right now my "2024 Archives" folder is at:

Number Of Messages: 4776

Size: 300 MB



I do not know about the mbox file format in email applications, but, if 
you want a powerful email client, as I believe that I have previously 
stated, I use, for downloading, storing, and, archiving email, the most 
powerful email client that I have found - alpine, previously known as pine.


The folder properties for the applicable stored messages folder, show
"Total count of files: 13720
Total size of files: 24.5GB"

I think that I have a couple of hundred filters (it could be more), 
involving some thousands of filter parameter field values.





Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.

Re: Bind9 local DNS not forwarding query to public DNS

[Dan Ritter]

Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote: 
> Need your experience advice, We have a BIND9 DNS server that operates both
> privately and publicly for the domain example xyz.com. I use the private
> DNS for certain secure nodes on our local network. I want all VPN users to
> be able to resolve these secure nodes using our local DNS, which is
> functioning correctly.
> 
> So I force assign all VPN user local DNS so that they can access the secure
> records and local DNS can forward their query to public DNS in case the
> record is not found in the zone file.
> 
>  locally everything is working just fine, the issue arises when a VPN user
> queries an A record that is on public. For example, if "secure.xyz.com" has
> a local entry in the zone file, it works as expected. However, when the
> entry is not present, I expect BIND to conditionally forward the query to a
> remote DNS server and resolve it for the VPN client. Unfortunately, this is
> not happening. BIND only searches for entries that are available in the
> local zone file and then times out. Here are my configuration files.
> 
> here is my bind config
> 
> 
>  options {
>  directory "/var/cache/bind";
>  recursion yes;   // Enable DNS recursion
>  allow-recursion { localhost; };

^ only localhost is allowed to do recursive queries. But you
want all your internal users to be allowed to do that.

>  allow-query { any; };   // Allow queries from any
> IP address
>  forwarders {
>   8.8.8.8;
>  };
>  dnssec-validation auto;
>  listen-on-v6 { any; };
>  };
> 
>   zone "xyz.com" {
>   type master;
>   file "/etc/bind/db.xyz.com";
>   forwarders {
>   8.8.8.8;
>   8.8.4.4;// Additional forwarder (optional)

^ you do not want forwarders here.

-dsr-

Re: Bind9 local DNS not forwarding query to public DNS

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

On 12/03/2024 12:48, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:

   Dear All,
Need your experience advice, We have a BIND9 DNS server that operates 
both privately and publicly for the domain example xyz.com 
<http://xyz.com/>. I use the private DNS for certain secure nodes on our 
local network. I want all VPN users to be able to resolve these secure 
nodes using our local DNS, which is functioning correctly.


So I force assign all VPN user local DNS so that they can access the 
secure records and local DNS can forward their query to public DNS in 
case the record is not found in the zone file.


  locally everything is working just fine, the issue arises when a VPN 
user queries an A record that is on public. For example, if 
"secure.xyz.com <http://secure.xyz.com/>" has a local entry in the zone 
file, it works as expected. However, when the entry is not present, I 
expect BIND to conditionally forward the query to a remote DNS server 
and resolve it for the VPN client. Unfortunately, this is not happening. 
BIND only searches for entries that are available in the local zone file 
and then times out. Here are my configuration files.


here is my bind config


  options {
              directory "/var/cache/bind";
              recursion yes;                   // Enable DNS recursion
              allow-recursion { localhost; };


You're only allowing recursion from localhost. I guess you need to allow 
the internal VPN addresses here. Maybe that's the (commented) acl below, 
so try something like


allow-recursion { "trusted"; };

(Maybe the acl needs to be defined before it's used, I'm not sure.)


              //acl trusted {192.168.1.0/24; };


But remember to add localhost to the acl, so that local processes can 
also use the recursive server.



              querylog yes;
              allow-transfer { none; };       // Disable zone transfers by 
default
              allow-query { any; };           // Allow queries from any IP 
address
              forwarders {
                   8.8.8.8;
              };
              dnssec-validation auto;
              listen-on-v6 { any; };
      };

       zone "xyz.com" {
           type master;
           file "/etc/bind/db.xyz.com";
           forwarders {
               8.8.8.8;
               8.8.4.4;                    // Additional forwarder (optional)
           };
       };



Thanks,

Yousuf




--
pension:
A federally insured chain letter.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br

Bind9 local DNS not forwarding query to public DNS

[Muhammad Yousuf Khan]

  Dear All,
Need your experience advice, We have a BIND9 DNS server that operates both
privately and publicly for the domain example xyz.com. I use the private
DNS for certain secure nodes on our local network. I want all VPN users to
be able to resolve these secure nodes using our local DNS, which is
functioning correctly.

So I force assign all VPN user local DNS so that they can access the secure
records and local DNS can forward their query to public DNS in case the
record is not found in the zone file.

 locally everything is working just fine, the issue arises when a VPN user
queries an A record that is on public. For example, if "secure.xyz.com" has
a local entry in the zone file, it works as expected. However, when the
entry is not present, I expect BIND to conditionally forward the query to a
remote DNS server and resolve it for the VPN client. Unfortunately, this is
not happening. BIND only searches for entries that are available in the
local zone file and then times out. Here are my configuration files.

here is my bind config


 options {
 directory "/var/cache/bind";
 recursion yes;   // Enable DNS recursion
 allow-recursion { localhost; };
 //acl trusted { 192.168.1.0/24; };
 querylog yes;
 allow-transfer { none; };   // Disable zone transfers
by default
 allow-query { any; };   // Allow queries from any
IP address
 forwarders {
  8.8.8.8;
 };
 dnssec-validation auto;
 listen-on-v6 { any; };
 };

  zone "xyz.com" {
  type master;
  file "/etc/bind/db.xyz.com";
  forwarders {
  8.8.8.8;
  8.8.4.4;// Additional forwarder (optional)
  };
  };



Thanks,

Yousuf

Re: What's the simplest way to map "CTRL + ALT" to "AltGr" [query]

[David Wright]

On Sat 10 Jun 2023 at 09:52:43 (+), Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Is there a simple way, without installing gazillion programs and
> tweaking tens of configuration files, to have at startup the
> combination of CTRL and left ALT produce the same result as AltGr?
> This must work for both console and Xorg.

Take a look at /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst where you
see that grp changes to another layout; "switch" means holding
the shifting key to switch, whereas "toggle" means tap it
without having to hold it down (like accessibility shift keys
typically work).

  grp:toggle   Right Alt

appears to show the definition for AltGr, so your equivalent
would seem to be

  grp:ctrl_alt_toggle  Alt+Ctrl

and your file shows the WinKey + SpaceBar definition. There are
examples that use this last key combination in the Arch wiki.

As for consoles, I've not used grp in keyboard definitions myself.

> $ cat .xsessionrc

I use /etc/default/locale to set locale variables, viz:

$ cat /etc/default/locale 
# LC_CTYPE added to overall C
# This file gets (generated and) updated by update-locale,
# but the contents should remain stable under normal circumstances.
LANG=C.UTF-8
LC_CTYPE="en_GB.UTF-8"
#
$ 

Cheers,
David.

Re: Query

[David Wright]

On Mon 07 Feb 2022 at 18:08:41 (-0500), Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 2/7/2022 4:36 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 04:31:51PM -0500, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> > > On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> > > > I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> > > > and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)
> > > > 
> > > > The computer is
> > > > 
> > > >     Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
> > > >     memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
> > > >     IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
> > > >     Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
> > > >     Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> > > Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian
> > > desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with 
> > > such
> > > an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for old
> > > hardware.
> > Bah, silly.  Just use a traditional window manager instead of a bloated
> > Desktop Environment.  Problem solved.
> 
> Which windows manager for an extremely resource-limited system?

I had no difficulty running buster's fvwm on a Pentium III Coppermine
from 2000, until the PSU expired. 650MHz, and 512MB memory. Your
memory is probably more use that my speed. But 60GB might limit its
usefulness: my minitower would hold four PATA drives, and I have
three 500GB still left, and had a 200GB until it expired.

You have to have a reason to keep running it, of course. Mine was
that drive capacity, plus nostalgia: it was the desktop machine
I retained when I retired.

This run of "top" is from a modern system after a while reading
my email. To trigger fvwm into top place, I switched between
several of the open viewports. (Mutt is obviously sleeping.)

  PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRESSHR S  %CPU  %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
   
 2730 auser 20   0  373960  67100  36148 S   5.6   0.8   0:03.20 Xorg   
   
 2782 auser 20   0   84244  13084  11144 S   0.7   0.2   0:00.25 fvwm   
   
 2790 auser 20   0   81296  12360  10704 S   0.7   0.2   0:00.16 FvwmPager  
   
   10 root  20   0   0  0  0 I   0.3   0.0   0:00.15 rcu_sched  
   
  614 nobody20   05080   2820   2580 S   0.3   0.0   0:00.06 thd
   
1 root  20   0   22276  10304   7748 S   0.0   0.1   0:01.01 systemd
   

> Debian's wiki page on window managers lists more than 30
> possibilities. Its not silly to take a look at a distro based on
> Debian that is tailored for low resources as a starting point to try
> and build a Debian 11.2 system that will work OK on a Pentium III with
> less than 1 GB of memory. Debian provides so many packages, and such
> distros like antiX can give one an idea about which packages to use
> when trying to build a Debian 11.2 system that will work well on an
> older system with such a small amount of memory and such an old CPU.

I install all the software that I do on any other machine, I just
don't run it if the machine's not up to it. (It had the disk space
not to worry, of course.) So I wouldn't open libreoffice or firefox,
for example. Speed wasn't an issue (/home was encrypted), just memory,
even with 1GB swap (encrypted).

> > But the *real* problem will come when they try to run a web browser.  That's
> > where the truly massive memory demand is.
> > 
> > 756 MB is plenty of RAM for daily use of everything except a web browser.
> > 
> 
> Yes, it will be important to try to find a web browser that is the
> least bloated as possible. Again, looking at the browser choices of
> distros tailored for old hardware can help build a Debian 11.2 system
> that will work well on old hardware.

So that I could read email, I used lynx (with -localhost) for HTML.
Mind you, I do that on all my current machines too.

> In any case, it will need to be a carefully crafted selection of
> Debian 11.2 packages to have a decent experience, and most definitely
> start with a small netinst installation with only the text console to
> start, and then build the GUI environment carefully from the ground
> up.
> 
> Again, good luck to the OP in trying out Debian 11.2 on his system.

One exception: I do run firefox on a 1.5GHz 500MB laptop, which is
painful. When I installed bullseye, it took 3 minutes for FF to
display the (empty) startup page. But it's useful to have a system
with zero monetary worth that I could trash or lose without worrying
about it.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Query

[Linux-Fan]

Chuck Zmudzinski writes:


On 2/7/2022 4:36 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 04:31:51PM -0500, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:

On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
    Debian 6.0: Squeeze

Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian
desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with such
an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for old
hardware.

Bah, silly.  Just use a traditional window manager instead of a bloated
Desktop Environment.  Problem solved.


Which windows manager for an extremely resource-limited system? Debian's


One could use one of e.g. the following list:

- IceWM
- i3
- Fluxbox

All of them are packaged for Debian and work on low-resource computers. I  
have successfully deployed i3 on a system with similar specs to the OP's.  
Mine is still on Debian 10 and not upgraded to Debian 11 yet, though.


wiki page on window managers lists more than 30 possibilities. Its not silly  
to take a look at a distro based on Debian that is tailored for low  
resources as a starting point to try and build a Debian 11.2 system that  
will work OK on a Pentium III with less than 1 GB of memory. Debian provides


Of course, its a valid approach :)

so many packages, and such distros like antiX can give one an idea about  
which packages to use when trying to build a Debian 11.2 system that will  
work well on an older system with such a small amount of memory and such an  
old CPU.


The other option is to ask here for recommendations. Debian is one of the  
last large/mainstream distributions to still support i386 architecture hence  
it is not unlikely that some people will be running old hardware here (I do  
for instance :) ).



But the *real* problem will come when they try to run a web browser.  That's
where the truly massive memory demand is.

756 MB is plenty of RAM for daily use of everything except a web browser.


Yes, it will be important to try to find a web browser that is the least  
bloated as possible. Again, looking at the browser choices of distros  
tailored for old hardware can help build a Debian 11.2 system that will work  
well on old hardware.


Independent of the other distros one will need to do a compromise here  
because:


* Any browser supporting all the modern features (mostly JS and CSS3) will
  be too slow for such old a machine.

* Any other browser will be too limited in features to satisfy a modern
  user's needs. E.g. try to access Gmail or Youtube over any lightweight
  browser and see how it goes (I suspect it will not work _at all_!)

In any case, it will need to be a carefully crafted selection of Debian 11.2  
packages to have a decent experience, and most definitely start with a small  
netinst installation with only the text console to start, and then build the  
GUI environment carefully from the ground up.


On such an old system one should only install what is needed because any  
additional background service will reduce the already very limited  
computational capacity. Rather than crafting a set of applications it might  
be easier to start with the question what the machine is going to be used  
for and then figure out if this is even possible for the hardware and only  
afterwards check which applications will fit the purpose _and_ resource  
constraints.


E.g. I regularly run `maxima` as a "calculator" app. On an old machine it  
takes many seconds to run and to compute even simple expressions. Hence I  
switched to `sc-im` (a lightweight spreadsheet program) on old machines for  
such tasks.


HTH and YMMV
Linux-Fan

öö

[...]


pgppno1xg3h5S.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Query

[Tim Woodall]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022, Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 04:31:51PM -0500, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:

On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

?? Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
?? memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
?? IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
?? Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
?? Debian 6.0: Squeeze


Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian
desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with such
an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for old
hardware.


Bah, silly.  Just use a traditional window manager instead of a bloated
Desktop Environment.  Problem solved.

But the *real* problem will come when they try to run a web browser.  That's
where the truly massive memory demand is.

756 MB is plenty of RAM for daily use of everything except a web browser.



I successfully run Debian on a 701 eeepc although I'm still on buster
for now using xfce. It's slow but not unusable, even firefox. updates do
take a while, allow at least 4-6 hours per dist-upgrade.

I mostly now use a kindle fire for 'walkabout' vpn and ssh access but
every now and again when something wifi won't work I return to the eeepc
for its better logging and debugging tools.

Re: Query

[Tixy]

On Mon, 2022-02-07 at 16:37 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
[...]
> > William Lee Valentine wrote:
> > > I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> > > and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a
> > > DVD.)
> > > 
> > > The computer is
> > > 
> > >    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
> > >    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
> > >    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
> > >    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
> > >    Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> > > 
[...]
> Anything pentium below "family 10" in its boot log, has no firmware 
> updates possible, and many have a halt bug that can only be recovered by 
> a powerdown reset. Dell makes pretty good stuff, but that is not 
> fixable. I would read its boot log very carefully. The OP would probably 
> be better off with a later off-lease machine with an i5 cpu, and 2Gigs of 
> ram or more, simply because there is firmware fixes for all known bugs. 
> Called microcode, the installer is smart enough to install the correct 
> one for those cpu's that can be updated.

Are you sure? The intel-microcode package is in the non-free section,
so I wouldn't expect this to be installed by the standard Debian
installer.

Also, touting the possibility of CPU bugs doesn't seem the most
compelling reason to upgrade upgrade hardware. The fact that it's a
1999 CPU with 768MB RAM and the tendency of software to bloat and
consume CPU and memory resources as time goes by should be enough. ;-)

-- 
Tixy

Re: Query

[Chuck Zmudzinski]

On 2/7/2022 4:36 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 04:31:51PM -0500, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:

On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
    Debian 6.0: Squeeze

Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian
desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with such
an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for old
hardware.

Bah, silly.  Just use a traditional window manager instead of a bloated
Desktop Environment.  Problem solved.


Which windows manager for an extremely resource-limited system? Debian's 
wiki page on window managers lists more than 30 possibilities. Its not 
silly to take a look at a distro based on Debian that is tailored for 
low resources as a starting point to try and build a Debian 11.2 system 
that will work OK on a Pentium III with less than 1 GB of memory. Debian 
provides so many packages, and such distros like antiX can give one an 
idea about which packages to use when trying to build a Debian 11.2 
system that will work well on an older system with such a small amount 
of memory and such an old CPU.




But the *real* problem will come when they try to run a web browser.  That's
where the truly massive memory demand is.

756 MB is plenty of RAM for daily use of everything except a web browser.



Yes, it will be important to try to find a web browser that is the least 
bloated as possible. Again, looking at the browser choices of distros 
tailored for old hardware can help build a Debian 11.2 system that will 
work well on old hardware.


In any case, it will need to be a carefully crafted selection of Debian 
11.2 packages to have a decent experience, and most definitely start 
with a small netinst installation with only the text console to start, 
and then build the GUI environment carefully from the ground up.


Again, good luck to the OP in trying out Debian 11.2 on his system.

Chuck

Re: Query

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 7, 2022 11:22:11 AM EST Dan Ritter wrote:
> William Lee Valentine wrote:
> > I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> > and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a
> > DVD.)
> > 
> > The computer is
> > 
> >Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
> >memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
> >IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
> >Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
> >Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> > 
> > If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it
> > preserve the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?
> 
> I'm going to assume you already have squeeze installed.
> 
> You should be able to upgrade in place from 6 to 7 to 8 to 9 to
> 10 to 11. On a machine that old and slow, I suspect it would
> take one day per upgrade.
> 
> However, it should work.
> 
> If you can find a SATA interface card and a cheap SSD, it will
> improve performance immensely.
> 
> Depending on the part of the world you are in, you can probably
> find a much faster machine being given away or sold second-hand
> for under $100.
> 
> If this is your only machine, I recommend not upgrading it, but
> finding a new one if at all possible, then installing on the new
> one and transferring over data from the old one.
> 
> -dsr-

Anything pentium below "family 10" in its boot log, has no firmware 
updates possible, and many have a halt bug that can only be recovered by 
a powerdown reset.  Dell makes pretty good stuff, but that is not 
fixable. I would read its boot log very carefully. The OP would probably 
be better off with a later off-lease machine with an i5 cpu, and 2Gigs of 
ram or more, simply because there is firmware fixes for all known bugs. 
Called microcode, the installer is smart enough to install the correct 
one for those cpu's that can be updated.

If the squeeze data is to be preserved, copy it to a big thumb drive, do 
the install, and copy it back.

The previous comments about SSD's are very valid advice. They are 
blazingly fast,

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Query

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 04:31:51PM -0500, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> > I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> > and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)
> > 
> > The computer is
> > 
> >    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
> >    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
> >    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
> >    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
> >    Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 
> Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian
> desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with such
> an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for old
> hardware.

Bah, silly.  Just use a traditional window manager instead of a bloated
Desktop Environment.  Problem solved.

But the *real* problem will come when they try to run a web browser.  That's
where the truly massive memory demand is.

756 MB is plenty of RAM for daily use of everything except a web browser.

Re: Query

[Chuck Zmudzinski]

On 2/7/2022 10:50 AM, William Lee Valentine wrote:

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

   Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
   memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
   IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
   Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
   Debian 6.0: Squeeze


Based on what others are saying, it looks like a typical modern Debian 
desktop environment such as Gnome or Plasma KDE will not work well with 
such an old system. I suggest you look for a Distro that is tailored for 
old hardware. See, for example this page:


https://itsfoss.com/lightweight-linux-beginners/

A quick look at the 16 distros would make me try antiX-19 first:

http://download.tuxfamily.org/antix/docs-antiX-19/FAQ/index.html

and

https://antixlinux.com/blog/

It advertises support down to as low as Pentium II and uses Debian 
buster as the base. Perhaps a later version will be based on bullseye. 
Its 32-bit version does not need to use a pae kernel, and it is systemd 
free, and these are probably some of the hacks that are needed to keep 
such an old system working well with modern software.


There are also antiX 21 packages, but the blog page does not advertise 
version 21 as a release, perhaps it is a development or beta version 
based on bullseye.


Good luck,

Chuck



If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it preserve
the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

I am not subscribed to this mailing list. I would appreciate advices.

-- William Lee Valentine

Re: Query

[Patrick Bartek]

On Mon, 7 Feb 2022 08:50:36 -0700
William Lee Valentine  wrote:

> I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a
> DVD.)

And have something usable? With the default GNOME desktop? Probably
not. With a lightweight desktop like XFCE? Maybe.  With a window
manager only? Better chance, but still iffy.  Main problem is lack of
RAM and slow CPU. You'll need the 32-bit version of Debian.

Here's a real example with equivalent hardware from around 2004 or 5:
1GHz Duron (PIII equivalent), 1 GB or so RAM, Fedora Core 6, GNOME
desktop.  My system at the time. After numerous upgrades from FC2,
system had become sluggish, particularly with menus -- a second or so
pause before appearing. I was able to get a usable system for another
year or so by a very custom install of Debian Wheezy. Started with a
terminal-only install, then added a minimal X with a window manager
(Openbox), a few utilities and lastly apps. However, I doubt if
Debian 11 would run well on it, even if you abandoned a desktop and
went with a window manager.

All you can do is try and see what happens. Good luck.

> The computer is
> 
>     Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
>     memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
>     IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
>     Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
>     Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 
> If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it
> preserve the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

Re: Query

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 08:50:36AM -0700, William Lee Valentine wrote:
> I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)
> 
> The computer is
> 
>    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
>    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
>    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
>    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
>    Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 

Debian 32 bit should run on this architecture: it will be slow - this 
is now a minimum of a 17 year old machine - the Pentium III Katmai
was discontinued in 2004.


> If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it preserve
> the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?
> 

It should run. By default, it is likely to overwrite the previous partition
layout and thus overwrite Squeeze. Squeeze is well and truly out of support
by now and security patches are unavailable: Please do not connect the
machine to the internet until you have brought it up to date / installed
an up to date Debian on the machine..


> I am not subscribed to this mailing list. I would appreciate advices.
> 
> -- William Lee Valentine
> 
All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 

Re: Query

[Dan Ritter]

William Lee Valentine wrote: 
> I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
> and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)
> 
> The computer is
> 
>    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
>    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
>    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
>    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
>    Debian 6.0: Squeeze
> 
> If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it preserve
> the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

I'm going to assume you already have squeeze installed.

You should be able to upgrade in place from 6 to 7 to 8 to 9 to
10 to 11. On a machine that old and slow, I suspect it would
take one day per upgrade.

However, it should work.

If you can find a SATA interface card and a cheap SSD, it will
improve performance immensely.

Depending on the part of the world you are in, you can probably
find a much faster machine being given away or sold second-hand
for under $100.

If this is your only machine, I recommend not upgrading it, but
finding a new one if at all possible, then installing on the new
one and transferring over data from the old one.

-dsr-

Re: Query

[Bijan Soleymani]

On 2022-02-07 10:50, William Lee Valentine wrote:

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

    Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
    memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
    IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
    Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
    Debian 6.0: Squeeze

If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it preserve
the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?


My main worry would be performance if you use GUI applications. I don't 
know what apps you use, but browsers and desktop environments have 
probably gotten real greedy in terms of RAM since Squeeze and <1 GB is a 
very small amount of RAM these days.



I am not subscribed to this mailing list. I would appreciate advices.


I have BCC'd you but please follow your thread on the archives (or via 
one of the news relays):


https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/02/threads.html
and
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/02/msg00187.html

Bijan

Query

[William Lee Valentine]

I am wondering whether a current Debian distribution can be installed
and run on an older Pentium III computer. (I have Debian 11.2 on a DVD.)

The computer is

   Dell Dimension XPS T500: Intel Pentium III processor (Katnai)
   memory: 756 megabytes, running at 500 megahertz
   IDE disc drive: 60 gigabytes
   Debian partition: currently 42 gigabytes
   Debian 6.0: Squeeze

If I install Debian 11.2, will it run on this machine? Will it preserve
the files and directories that I have on Squeeze?

I am not subscribed to this mailing list. I would appreciate advices.

-- William Lee Valentine


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: KDE Icon query

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

On 28/01/2022 21:38, Hans wrote:

Am Freitag, 28. Januar 2022, 18:51:21 CET schrieb Peter Hillier-Brook:
Hi Peter,

the icons should be below /usr/share/icons/ and then within thwe required
themefolder.

If dolphin and the other apps are in the menus, but got no icon, try another
icon theme in the settings menu.

If then there is an icon, revert to the former theme and check, if dolphin and
the ones got now an icon.

Please note, that not all plasma themes got icons for ever application!

I am using i.e. oxygen where nightshift icon is missing, but in breeze is is
existent.

(Still could not discover, how to add a missing icon for an application in a
theme.)

Hope this helps.

Best

Hans


Hello All,

can anyone identify the file that holds the following KDE icons:
Application Launcher, Dolphin and Konsole?

I recently re-booted an already up-to-date bullseye system and they have
visually disappeared from the Panel, although the launchers themselves
are still present and functional.

Peter HB


Many thanks for your hints: I recovered them all by re-selecting 
"Breeze" as my theme. Why they disappeared during a re-boot is for 
another day.


Peter HB

Re: KDE Icon query

[Hans]

Am Freitag, 28. Januar 2022, 18:51:21 CET schrieb Peter Hillier-Brook:
Hi Peter,

the icons should be below /usr/share/icons/ and then within thwe required 
themefolder.

If dolphin and the other apps are in the menus, but got no icon, try another 
icon theme in the settings menu.

If then there is an icon, revert to the former theme and check, if dolphin and 
the ones got now an icon.

Please note, that not all plasma themes got icons for ever application!

I am using i.e. oxygen where nightshift icon is missing, but in breeze is is 
existent. 

(Still could not discover, how to add a missing icon for an application in a 
theme.)

Hope this helps.

Best

Hans  

> Hello All,
> 
> can anyone identify the file that holds the following KDE icons:
> Application Launcher, Dolphin and Konsole?
> 
> I recently re-booted an already up-to-date bullseye system and they have
> visually disappeared from the Panel, although the launchers themselves
> are still present and functional.
> 
> Peter HB

KDE Icon query

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

Hello All,

can anyone identify the file that holds the following KDE icons: 
Application Launcher, Dolphin and Konsole?


I recently re-booted an already up-to-date bullseye system and they have 
visually disappeared from the Panel, although the launchers themselves 
are still present and functional.


Peter HB

Re: strange file query

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Friday, January 21, 2022 10:46 AM, Andrei POPESCU  
wrote:

> On Lu, 17 ian 22, 17:00:48, ghe2001 wrote:
>
> > (I grew up, computer-wise, in the days of the 7" floppy disk -- a
> > megaByte still feels like a lot of disk space.)
>
> You generated more data than that with your first post sent to the 3000+
> d-u subscribers, not counting replies ;)

It wasn't me -- it was the headers, and somebody replied from a Winders OS :-)

--
Glenn English

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Version: ProtonMail

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Re: strange file query

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 17 ian 22, 17:00:48, ghe2001 wrote:
> 
> (I grew up, computer-wise, in the days of the 7" floppy disk -- a 
> megaByte still feels like a lot of disk space.)

You generated more data than that with your first post sent to the 3000+ 
d-u subscribers, not counting replies ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: strange file query

[Peter Hillier-Brook]

On 17/01/2022 17:00, ghe2001 wrote:




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, January 17, 2022 5:06 AM, piorunz  wrote:


Indeed it is. Mesa is a hero of Linux world. Thanks to it, we have
effortless GPU acceleration available everywhere, thousands of games are
working flawlessly on Linux, even Windows games (thats also thanks to
Wine and related projects). This wasn't possible 5 or 10 years ago, Mesa
didn't existed, GPU drivers sucked big time. Happy days.


Happily granted.  Lots of things I don't know about in my Debian distro.  But 
1.3 megaHeros, all zero?  I can't see how that's doing anybody much good.

(I grew up, computer-wise, in the days of the 7" floppy disk -- a megaByte 
still feels like a lot of disk space.)


5.25" and 8" in the '70s on my planet. :-) I still have a few in my 
loft. In the '60s we used 8 Meg removable hard disks.


Peter HB

Re: strange file query

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256




‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, January 17, 2022 5:06 AM, piorunz  wrote:

> Indeed it is. Mesa is a hero of Linux world. Thanks to it, we have
> effortless GPU acceleration available everywhere, thousands of games are
> working flawlessly on Linux, even Windows games (thats also thanks to
> Wine and related projects). This wasn't possible 5 or 10 years ago, Mesa
> didn't existed, GPU drivers sucked big time. Happy days.

Happily granted.  Lots of things I don't know about in my Debian distro.  But 
1.3 megaHeros, all zero?  I can't see how that's doing anybody much good.

(I grew up, computer-wise, in the days of the 7" floppy disk -- a megaByte 
still feels like a lot of disk space.)

--
Glenn English


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Re: strange file query

[piorunz]

On 17/01/2022 06:21, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

I'd check dependencies first. Some of the mesa libraries are pretty
basic infrastructure for many a program making use of your GPU for
rendering.

This is possibly one of those unsung heros working down there in the
boiler room where's hot and while nobody notices:)


Indeed it is. Mesa is a hero of Linux world. Thanks to it, we have
effortless GPU acceleration available everywhere, thousands of games are
working flawlessly on Linux, even Windows games (thats also thanks to
Wine and related projects). This wasn't possible 5 or 10 years ago, Mesa
didn't existed, GPU drivers sucked big time. Happy days.

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: strange file query

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 10:40:43PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 2:13 PM, piorunz  wrote:
> 
> > If you delete this directory, probably it will get recreated.
> > Check what mesa packages you have installed:
> > dpkg -l | grep mesa | awk {'print $2'}
> 
> OK. dpkg lists a lot of libraries and drivers.  I'll just leave it alone, 
> sucking up all that disk space.  I've apparently got a Winders wannaBe 
> install (grumble...)

Hey, no. Pause for thirty seconds to think of all those stokers down
there in the boiler room having written that nifty software for you
(and, of course, for me :-D

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: strange file query

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 09:07:13PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> 
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 1:51 PM,  wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 08:25:25PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
> >
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > Hash: SHA256
> > > In my home dir, there's a dir called .cache/mesa_shader_cache.
> >
> > This looks like some cache data for the Mesa [1] 3D graphics rendering
> > library.
> 
> Looking at your link to Wikipedia, it does indeed seem to have something to 
> do with Mesa (there's a paragraph in there about 'shader').  But I've never 
> heard of Mesa, and I certainly didn't install it.
> 
> This sounds like one vote for deletion.  Or maybe .8 votes :-)

I'd check dependencies first. Some of the mesa libraries are pretty
basic infrastructure for many a program making use of your GPU for
rendering.

This is possibly one of those unsung heros working down there in the
boiler room where's hot and while nobody notices :)

Cheers
-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

Re: strange file query

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 2:13 PM, piorunz  wrote:

> If you delete this directory, probably it will get recreated.
> Check what mesa packages you have installed:
> dpkg -l | grep mesa | awk {'print $2'}

OK. dpkg lists a lot of libraries and drivers.  I'll just leave it alone, 
sucking up all that disk space.  I've apparently got a Winders wannaBe install 
(grumble...)

Thanks, both of you, for the help.

--
Glenn English

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Re: strange file query

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 17/01/2022 10:07, ghe2001 wrote:

Looking at your link to Wikipedia, it does indeed seem to have something to do 
with Mesa (there's a paragraph in there about 'shader').  But I've never heard 
of Mesa, and I certainly didn't install it.
This sounds like one vote for deletion.  Or maybe .8 votes :-)


No. Leave well enough alone. Mesa is a core part of the graphics stack. 
Heaps of Debian applications use OpenGL for hardware-accelerated 
graphics rendering. Shaders are tiny programs that run on your GPU. If 
you delete this cache, it will likely be recreated, or Bad Things May 
Happen.


You will have many Mesa libraries installed as dependencies:

dpkg -l "*mesa*"

On my system (sid), this removes 100 packages (note "-s" to simulate), 
including xserver-xorg!:


apt-get purge -s -V libglapi-mesa

There are likely other direct dependencies.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: strange file query

[piorunz]

On 16/01/2022 21:07, ghe2001 wrote:

Looking at your link to Wikipedia, it does indeed seem to have something to do 
with Mesa (there's a paragraph in there about 'shader').  But I've never heard 
of Mesa, and I certainly didn't install it.

This sounds like one vote for deletion.  Or maybe .8 votes:-)


Mesa is installed by default very often, in many DE. Certainly is on
mine, I know because I use it.
Applications which use OpenGL to draw like browsers or multimedia
programs may also use it, it's not only for games.

Quick 1 minute DDG search, second link, reveals:

"basically, any application which uses OpenGL (Mesa) might try to use
the shader cache directory."

If you delete this directory, probably it will get recreated.
Check what mesa packages you have installed:
dpkg -l | grep mesa | awk {'print $2'}

--
With kindest regards, Piotr.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄

Re: strange file query

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256



‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 1:51 PM,  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 08:25:25PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
>
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA256
> > In my home dir, there's a dir called .cache/mesa_shader_cache.
>
> This looks like some cache data for the Mesa [1] 3D graphics rendering
> library.

Looking at your link to Wikipedia, it does indeed seem to have something to do 
with Mesa (there's a paragraph in there about 'shader').  But I've never heard 
of Mesa, and I certainly didn't install it.

This sounds like one vote for deletion.  Or maybe .8 votes :-)

--
Glenn English


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Re: strange file query

[tomas]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 08:25:25PM +, ghe2001 wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> In my home dir, there's a dir called .cache/mesa_shader_cache.

This looks like some cache data for the Mesa [1] 3D graphics rendering
library.

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics)

-- 
t


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Description: PGP signature

strange file query

[ghe2001]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

In my home dir, there's a dir called .cache/mesa_shader_cache.  It contains a 
file called 'index.'  man knows nothing about the dir.  The web seems to say it 
has something to do with AppArmor; in another place it says "the distro is 
dead."  The file 1.3MB and contains nothing but 0x00s, according to hexedit.  
ls -lh says 'index' is owned by me, and has -rw-r--r-- permissions.

Anybody know what they are and what they're doing there?  Can I delete them?

--
Glenn English


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Re: osinfo-query os missing debian Bullseye

[David]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 00:44, john doe  wrote:
> On 12/20/2021 12:44 AM, David wrote:
> > On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 at 04:36, Dan Ritter  wrote:
> >> john doe wrote:

> > I just use '--os-variant debiantesting' until someone
> > gives better advice.

> According to (1), the better advice would be to use 'debian10'!!! :)
> 1)
> https://listman.redhat.com/archives/libvirt-users/2021-December/msg00057.html

Thanks for the update, but I don't see any suggestion of "better"
in that discussion.

Your question there does not even mention that 'debiantesting'
is a possible option, so it may not have been considered by
your respondent. It appears to me that they've simply told you
that it's ok to use what you said was available, without any
suggestion of it being "better" than something which was
never mentioned.

I suspect none of this is particularly important anyway.
It has been like this for some years, with the stable Debian
release not appearing in the libosinfo that it contains,
and it does not seem to cause any problems that I've noticed.
And it seems likely that 'debiantesting' will reliably point to
the next release. But what it actually does and whether
it matters I have no idea.

Re: osinfo-query os missing debian Bullseye

[john doe]

On 12/20/2021 12:44 AM, David wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 at 04:36, Dan Ritter  wrote:

john doe wrote:



As far as I can tell, the command 'osinfo-query os' does not
support/list 'debian11'.



I need to fire up a Bullseye VM what is the best way forward?



What does osinfo-query have to do with installing a VM?


I expect it will be something like seen here:
   https://wiki.debian.org/KVM?highlight=%28os-variant%29

'virt-install' takes an '--os-variant' argument. The known
values of that argument are queried by an 'osinfo-query'
command.

$ osinfo-query os | awk -e '/debian/ {print $1}'
debian1.1
debian1.2
debian1.3
debian10
debian2.0
debian2.1
debian2.2
debian3
debian3.1
debian4
debian5
debian6
debian7
debian8
debian9
debiantesting

$ cat /etc/debian_version
11.2

$ dpkg -S osinfo-query
libosinfo-bin: /usr/bin/osinfo-query
libosinfo-bin: /usr/share/man/man1/osinfo-query.1.gz

$ apt list --installed libosinfo-bin
Listing... Done
libosinfo-bin/stable,now 1.8.0-1 amd64 [installed]

I just use '--os-variant debiantesting' until someone
gives better advice.



According to (1), the better advice would be to use 'debian10'!!! :)

In short, the issue has been fixed upstream and will make it's way in
the Debian package in the next little while.

1)
https://listman.redhat.com/archives/libvirt-users/2021-December/msg00057.html

--
John Doe

Re: osinfo-query os missing debian Bullseye

[David]

On Mon, 20 Dec 2021 at 04:36, Dan Ritter  wrote:
> john doe wrote:

> > As far as I can tell, the command 'osinfo-query os' does not
> > support/list 'debian11'.

> > I need to fire up a Bullseye VM what is the best way forward?

> What does osinfo-query have to do with installing a VM?

I expect it will be something like seen here:
  https://wiki.debian.org/KVM?highlight=%28os-variant%29

'virt-install' takes an '--os-variant' argument. The known
values of that argument are queried by an 'osinfo-query'
command.

$ osinfo-query os | awk -e '/debian/ {print $1}'
debian1.1
debian1.2
debian1.3
debian10
debian2.0
debian2.1
debian2.2
debian3
debian3.1
debian4
debian5
debian6
debian7
debian8
debian9
debiantesting

$ cat /etc/debian_version
11.2

$ dpkg -S osinfo-query
libosinfo-bin: /usr/bin/osinfo-query
libosinfo-bin: /usr/share/man/man1/osinfo-query.1.gz

$ apt list --installed libosinfo-bin
Listing... Done
libosinfo-bin/stable,now 1.8.0-1 amd64 [installed]

I just use '--os-variant debiantesting' until someone
gives better advice.

Re: osinfo-query os missing debian Bullseye

[Dan Ritter]

john doe wrote: 
> As far as I can tell, the command 'osinfo-query os' does not
> support/list 'debian11'.
> 
> I need to fire up a Bullseye VM what is the best way forward?

What does osinfo-query have to do with installing a VM?

Pick a VM technology: kvm is built-in, but there are other
choices. libvirtd can manage most of them. You can get a
complete VM image to run, or build one via debootstrap or
another tool.

What are you trying to do?

-dsr-

osinfo-query os missing debian Bullseye

[john doe]

Debians,

As far as I can tell, the command 'osinfo-query os' does not
support/list 'debian11'.

I need to fire up a Bullseye VM what is the best way forward?


P.S.

Host and guest are Bullseye.

--
John Doe

Re: Query regarding Debian 9.9 (stretch)

[deloptes]

didier gaumet wrote:

> By default Stretch seems too ancient to support your chip and you would
> need is install both the kernel and the firmware from Backports to support
> it

In any case the OP is asking also if this is on the installer, which it is
obviously not.
So th answer to actually both questions is NO.

Re: Query regarding Debian 9.9 (stretch)

[didier gaumet]

Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 à 10:30:06 UTC+1, Pratiek N a écrit :
> Hello Team,
> 
> Greetings for the day!
> 
> I need your help regarding a query about Debian 9.9
> 
> Please help me understand if Intel Wi-Fi Module AC9260 supports Debian 9.9 ?
> 
> If it is supported then is the wifi driver part of the inbox driver for 
> Debian 9.9 iso?
> 
> Thank you for your time,
> 
> Regards,
> Pratiek N

Hello,

This is a user list, there is no Debian support team.

According to (1) AC9260 is supported by a Li,nux kernel from 4.14 on.
According to (2) Strecth has a 4.09 kernel but there is a 4.19 Backports kernel 
available.
According to (3) there is also a firmware for this chip in the Backports repo

By default Stretch seems too ancient to support your chip and you would need is 
install both the kernel and   
the firmware from Backports to support it

(1) 
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05511/network-and-i-o/wireless.html
(2) 
https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=linux-image-amd64
(3) 
https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=iwlwifi

If you do not know how to use Backports, there is a page in the wiki:
 https://wiki.debian.org/Backports

Re: Query regarding Debian 9.9 (stretch)

[tomas]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 02:42:38PM +0530, Pratiek N wrote:
> Hello Team,
> 
> Greetings for the day!
> 
> I need your help regarding a query about Debian 9.9
> 
> Please help me understand if Intel  Wi-Fi Module AC9260 supports Debian 9.9
> ?
> 
> If it is supported then is the wifi driver part of the inbox driver for
> Debian 9.9 iso?

I can't vouch for it firsthand, but at least there seems to be firmware
for it -- at least this seems promising:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ apt-file search -x "firmware.*9260"
  firmware-iwlwifi: /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-9260-th-b0-jf-b0-34.ucode
  firmware-iwlwifi: /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-9260-th-b0-jf-b0-38.ucode
  firmware-iwlwifi: /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-9260-th-b0-jf-b0-41.ucode
  firmware-iwlwifi: /lib/firmware/iwlwifi-9260-th-b0-jf-b0-46.ucode

But perhaps someone else is using that hardware right
now.

Good luck
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Query regarding Debian 9.9 (stretch)

[Pratiek N]

Hello Team,

Greetings for the day!

I need your help regarding a query about Debian 9.9

Please help me understand if Intel  Wi-Fi Module AC9260 supports Debian 9.9
?

If it is supported then is the wifi driver part of the inbox driver for
Debian 9.9 iso?

Thank you for your time,

Regards,
Pratiek N

Re: Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[_ nenu]

On Tue 08 Sep 2020 at 14:29:02 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 2020-09-08 03:45, nenu crok wrote:

> > i have read somewhere using ctrl alt f2 option to start new session. is 
> > word session correct ? by jumping using above option will log out from 
> > existing session.
> 
> That sounds like the Linux "virtual terminals" feature:
> 
> https://www.linux.org/threads/virtual-terminals.4135/
> 
> Switching between virtual terminals does not log you out.
> 
> Most graphical environments support a "terminal" application and the
> ability to run multiple programs inside windows on your screen.  One
> advantage over virtual terminals is that you can see multiple windows
> at the same time, and can copy-and-paste information between them.

> You should be able to copy-and-paste between virtual terminals (or
virtual consoles) too. Agreed, you can't see them both at the same
time, 

> and another disadvantage is that whenever you switch consoles,
the lines of output above the top of the screen can no longer be
reached by scrolling up.

thanks for heads up.

_ nenu

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[David Wright]

On Tue 08 Sep 2020 at 14:29:02 (-0700), David Christensen wrote:
> On 2020-09-08 03:45, nenu crok wrote:

> > i have read somewhere using ctrl alt f2 option to start new session. is 
> > word session correct ? by jumping using above option will log out from 
> > existing session.
> 
> That sounds like the Linux "virtual terminals" feature:
> 
> https://www.linux.org/threads/virtual-terminals.4135/
> 
> Switching between virtual terminals does not log you out.
> 
> Most graphical environments support a "terminal" application and the
> ability to run multiple programs inside windows on your screen.  One
> advantage over virtual terminals is that you can see multiple windows
> at the same time, and can copy-and-paste information between them.

You should be able to copy-and-paste between virtual terminals (or
virtual consoles) too. Agreed, you can't see them both at the same
time, and another disadvantage is that whenever you switch consoles,
the lines of output above the top of the screen can no longer be
reached by scrolling up.

Cheers,
David.

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[nenu crok]

>  i am privacy freak, hence not using android. however, after seeing size of 
> libreoffice, is there any way an option to download only small portion. i 
> have overheard aboout similar option in our os debian. this is must, only 
> metered ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i am specifically interested 
> about disadvantages compared to full package or normal update or upgrade.

just now i found correct words: delta update - on android or express updates 
-on windows. do we have similar option ?

> you can purchase Debian DVDs and have them sent to you in the mail

where can i find more info about debian dvd contents.

> the important thing is to choose a mail storage format that supports that.

> Maildir is the most useful. Any program that supports Maildir should also 
> support multiple sessions.

i will check which package supports.

> By "seti', do you mean:
> https://seti.org/
> I do not understand how mail and SETI are related (?). Please clarify.

there is no relation between both of them. i dont want to miss my important 
emails while using or checking other work.

> You should only run two instances of any program if that program is designed 
> for concurrent operation. Otherwise, the two instances could both write to 
> the same file, losing or corrupting data.

thank you for heads up. i will prepare a list of packages and ask package 
coders about it or search package help manual.

> Most graphical environments support a "terminal" application and the ability 
> to run multiple programs inside windows on your screen.

i am trying to avoid accidental closing or quitting package.

> That sounds like the Linux "virtual terminals" feature:

i will do more research about "virtual terminals".

> I added an alias to my .profile so that --no-install-recommends is always 
> set: 2020-09-08 13:45:56 root@tinkywinky ~ # grep 'no-install-recommends' 
> .profile* .profile:alias apt-get='apt-get --no-install-recommends'

> You may wish to add this to your apt configuration file(s), /etc/apt/apt.conf 
> or /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/*, instead, like so: APT::Install-Recommends "false"; 
> That should apply to apt-get, (I believe) aptitude, and synaptic, as well as 
> apt, should you decide to use one of those.

i have added excellent suggestion to my must to-do list.

regards,
_ nenu

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[David Christensen]

On 2020-09-08 15:04, Charles Curley wrote:

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 13:48:03 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:


I added an alias to my .profile so that --no-install-recommends is
always set:

2020-09-08 13:45:56 root@tinkywinky ~
# grep 'no-install-recommends' .profile*
.profile:alias apt-get='apt-get --no-install-recommends'


You may wish to add this to your apt configuration
file(s), /etc/apt/apt.conf or /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/*, instead, like so:

APT::Install-Recommends "false";

That should apply to apt-get, (I believe) aptitude, and synaptic, as
well as apt, should you decide to use one of those.


Interesting possibility.  Thanks for the suggestion.  :-)


David

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 13:48:03 -0700
David Christensen  wrote:

> I added an alias to my .profile so that --no-install-recommends is 
> always set:
> 
> 2020-09-08 13:45:56 root@tinkywinky ~
> # grep 'no-install-recommends' .profile*
> .profile:alias apt-get='apt-get --no-install-recommends'

You may wish to add this to your apt configuration
file(s), /etc/apt/apt.conf or /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/*, instead, like so:

APT::Install-Recommends "false";

That should apply to apt-get, (I believe) aptitude, and synaptic, as
well as apt, should you decide to use one of those.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[David Christensen]

On 2020-09-08 03:45, nenu crok wrote:

hello debian users,


Hello.  :-)



after bit of research, i have decided to install debian. it is rock solid.

i have few queries. please be simple. english is not my native language.

i assumed kernel is most important for system security. do we have tweaked 
kernel packages. i dont mind a little of sluggishness or loss of performance.


Understand that Debian "stable" implies older kernels and software, 
which can be a double-edged sword with respect to "security".



i am privacy freak, hence not using android. 


I have not heard of privacy problems with the base Debian installation.


But, it is possible to have your privacy compromised on any platform by 
installing privacy-violating software, plug-in's, etc., and/or by using 
privacy-violating Internet services.




however, after seeing size of libreoffice, is there any way an option to 
download only small portion. i have overheard aboout similar option in our os 
debian. this is must, only metered ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i 
am specifically interested about disadvantages compared to full package or 
normal update or upgrade.


Consider purchasing a set of installation discs or an installation USB 
flash drive.



Study your package installation tool to see how you can control what 
packages get downloaded and why.  With sufficient effort, you should be 
able to limit downloads to only security patches.  (This could be as 
simple as only including security.debian.org in /etc/apt/sources.list).



to me email is important. i have decided to contribute bit similar to seti. 


By "seti', do you mean:

https://seti.org/


I do not understand how mail and SETI are related (?).  Please clarify.


can i run mail in two terminals. 


You should only run two instances of any program if that program is 
designed for concurrent operation.  Otherwise, the two instances could 
both write to the same file, losing or corrupting data.




i have read somewhere using ctrl alt f2 option to start new session. is word 
session correct ? by jumping using above option will log out from existing 
session.


That sounds like the Linux "virtual terminals" feature:

https://www.linux.org/threads/virtual-terminals.4135/

Switching between virtual terminals does not log you out.


Most graphical environments support a "terminal" application and the 
ability to run multiple programs inside windows on your screen.  One 
advantage over virtual terminals is that you can see multiple windows at 
the same time, and can copy-and-paste information between them.



David

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[David Christensen]

On 2020-09-08 10:27, Marko Randjelovic wrote:

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:45:41 +
nenu crok  wrote:


i am privacy freak, hence not using android. however, after seeing size of 
libreoffice, is there any way an option to download only small portion. i have 
overheard aboout similar option in our os debian. this is must, only metered 
ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i am specifically interested about 
disadvantages compared to full package or normal update or upgrade.


You can download only parts of libreoffice that you need, e.g.

apt install libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc

Also, you can use --no-install-recommends option:

apt-get --no-install-recommends install libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc


+1


I added an alias to my .profile so that --no-install-recommends is 
always set:


2020-09-08 13:45:56 root@tinkywinky ~
# grep 'no-install-recommends' .profile*
.profile:alias apt-get='apt-get --no-install-recommends'


David

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[Marko Randjelovic]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:45:41 +
nenu crok  wrote:

> i am privacy freak, hence not using android. however, after seeing size of 
> libreoffice, is there any way an option to download only small portion. i 
> have overheard aboout similar option in our os debian. this is must, only 
> metered ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i am specifically interested 
> about disadvantages compared to full package or normal update or upgrade.

You can download only parts of libreoffice that you need, e.g.

apt install libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc

Also, you can use --no-install-recommends option:

apt-get --no-install-recommends install libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc

Regards,
Marko

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[riveravaldez]

On 9/8/20, nenu crok  wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:45:41 +
> nenu crok  wrote:
>
>> after seeing size of libreoffice, is there any way an option to
>> download only small portion.
>
>> Consider other office software instead: ABIword, gnumeric, etc.

I always recommend AbiWord: it's not just much more small and
lightweight but also much more simple to use.

The same goes for GNUmeric.

Only thing I couldn't find still is an alternative to Impress...

Best luck.

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[nenu crok]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:45:41 +
nenu crok  wrote:

> after seeing size of libreoffice, is there any way an option to
> download only small portion.

> Consider other office software instead: ABIword, gnumeric, etc.

i will certainly consider your suggestion.

_ nenu

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[Charles Curley]

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 10:45:41 +
nenu crok  wrote:

> after seeing size of libreoffice, is there any way an option to
> download only small portion.

Consider other office software instead: ABIword, gnumeric, etc.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: query about kernel, download options, sessions

[Dan Ritter]

nenu crok wrote: 
> i have few queries. please be simple. english is not my native language.

That's true for lots of people here. 

> i assumed kernel is most important for system security. do we have tweaked 
> kernel packages. i dont mind a little of sluggishness or loss of performance.

The kernel is updated regularly, and the debian-security team is
generally on top of things. You should subscribe to
debian-security-announce 

> i am privacy freak, hence not using android. however, after seeing size of 
> libreoffice, is there any way an option to download only small portion. i 
> have overheard aboout similar option in our os debian. this is must, only 
> metered ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i am specifically interested 
> about disadvantages compared to full package or normal update or upgrade.

Options:

LibreOffice is about 600MB if you don't choose all the language
packs and dictionaries. There are 179 component packages, but
you only need a few.

- you can download packages to a USB stick at a library or
  university or internet cafe, then take them home and install
  them.

- you can purchase Debian DVDs and have them sent to you in the
  mail


> to me email is important. i have decided to contribute bit similar to seti. 
> can i run mail in two terminals. i have read somewhere using ctrl alt f2 
> option to start new session. is word session correct ? by jumping using above 
> option will log out from existing session.

ctrl-alt-F1 through F6 are usually set up as independent virtual
terminals. Changing to one or another should not log you out of
the one you were in, but only offer you a chance to log in to a
new one.

If you want to run mail in 2 sessions at the same time, the
important thing is to choose a mail storage format that supports
that. Maildir is the most useful. Any program that supports
Maildir should also support multiple sessions.

-dsr-

query about kernel, download options, sessions

[nenu crok]

hello debian users,

after bit of research, i have decided to install debian. it is rock solid.

i have few queries. please be simple. english is not my native language.

i assumed kernel is most important for system security. do we have tweaked 
kernel packages. i dont mind a little of sluggishness or loss of performance.

i am privacy freak, hence not using android. however, after seeing size of 
libreoffice, is there any way an option to download only small portion. i have 
overheard aboout similar option in our os debian. this is must, only metered 
ethernet or wifi connections in my area. i am specifically interested about 
disadvantages compared to full package or normal update or upgrade.

to me email is important. i have decided to contribute bit similar to seti. can 
i run mail in two terminals. i have read somewhere using ctrl alt f2 option to 
start new session. is word session correct ? by jumping using above option will 
log out from existing session.

regards,
nenu

Re: OT:hardware query

[Dan Ritter]

mick crane wrote: 
> On 2019-07-01 11:05, Dan Ritter wrote:
> 
> > > Would seem that a processor without integrated graphics might be
> > > better ?
> > 
> > It's irrelevant: hardly any Steam games will play acceptably
> > using integrated graphics.
> 
> what I meant was not much point having integrated graphics as chip without
> integrated graphics probably runs cooler ?

If you aren't using the integrated graphics, it won't contribute
to any significant degree of heating.

-dsr-

Re: OT:hardware query

[mick crane]

On 2019-07-01 11:05, Dan Ritter wrote:

Would seem that a processor without integrated graphics might be 
better ?


It's irrelevant: hardly any Steam games will play acceptably
using integrated graphics.


what I meant was not much point having integrated graphics as chip 
without integrated graphics probably runs cooler ?

seems under 300 is more the target with a decent graphics card.

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: OT:hardware query

[Dan Ritter]

mick crane wrote: 
> On 2019-06-29 17:17, Dan Ritter wrote:
> > Martin Smith wrote:
> > > On 28/06/2019 17:11, mick crane wrote:
> > General advice:
> > 
> > - look for a generic PC, avoiding laptops and anything described
> >   as "mini".
> > 
> > - Don't obsess over CPUs. The last 8 years have only given
> >   incremental improvements.
> > 
> > - Look for PCIe slots on the motherboard instead of PCI.
> > 
> > - Look for 4 DIMM slots for RAM, either DDR3 or DDR4. DDR2 is
> >   too old to find in useful quantity.
> > 
> > - Assume that you're going to replace a spinning disk in the
> >   near future. As long as it has a sufficient number of SATA2 or
> >   SATA3 ports, you'll be fine. 4 is the minimum.
> > 
> > - Assume that you need to replace the graphics card in order to
> >   play games.
> > 
> > -dsr-
> 
> are you saying that there's not much noticeable difference between
> i3,i5,xeon E3,i7
> with the same graphics card ?

I'm saying that, among the range of CPUs you can purchase in
used machines for under 200 quid, there's not much difference.

It is *also* the case that for most games on Steam, the quality
of your graphics card (again in the used, low price range) will
make more difference in game playing than the CPU.

There are certainly combinations that will escape this
generalization.

> Would seem that a processor without integrated graphics might be better ?

It's irrelevant: hardly any Steam games will play acceptably
using integrated graphics. 

-dsr-

Re: OT:hardware query

[mick crane]

On 2019-06-29 17:17, Dan Ritter wrote:

Martin Smith wrote:

On 28/06/2019 17:11, mick crane wrote:
> The first concern if getting a new PC is that it can play the steam
> games and they are getting really pushy what they need to work.
> I never have proper available funds for this stuff these days and
> generally buy used..
> The idea is each year or so get something else and move the last one
> down to doing more useful work.
> That would mean it should have facility to attach 2 or more internal
> drives and slots for network cards.
> If that makes sense what advise something used for 200 UKP ?
> mick
>
if you are anywhere near london you should go to the Stratford 
computer fair

lots of good quality secondhand stuff


General advice:

- look for a generic PC, avoiding laptops and anything described
  as "mini".

- Don't obsess over CPUs. The last 8 years have only given
  incremental improvements.

- Look for PCIe slots on the motherboard instead of PCI.

- Look for 4 DIMM slots for RAM, either DDR3 or DDR4. DDR2 is
  too old to find in useful quantity.

- Assume that you're going to replace a spinning disk in the
  near future. As long as it has a sufficient number of SATA2 or
  SATA3 ports, you'll be fine. 4 is the minimum.

- Assume that you need to replace the graphics card in order to
  play games.

-dsr-


are you saying that there's not much noticeable difference between 
i3,i5,xeon E3,i7

with the same graphics card ?
Would seem that a processor without integrated graphics might be better 
?


mick


--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: OT:hardware query

[Dan Ritter]

Martin Smith wrote: 
> On 28/06/2019 17:11, mick crane wrote:
> > The first concern if getting a new PC is that it can play the steam
> > games and they are getting really pushy what they need to work.
> > I never have proper available funds for this stuff these days and
> > generally buy used..
> > The idea is each year or so get something else and move the last one
> > down to doing more useful work.
> > That would mean it should have facility to attach 2 or more internal
> > drives and slots for network cards.
> > If that makes sense what advise something used for 200 UKP ?
> > mick
> > 
> if you are anywhere near london you should go to the Stratford computer fair
> lots of good quality secondhand stuff

General advice:

- look for a generic PC, avoiding laptops and anything described
  as "mini".

- Don't obsess over CPUs. The last 8 years have only given
  incremental improvements.

- Look for PCIe slots on the motherboard instead of PCI.

- Look for 4 DIMM slots for RAM, either DDR3 or DDR4. DDR2 is
  too old to find in useful quantity.

- Assume that you're going to replace a spinning disk in the
  near future. As long as it has a sufficient number of SATA2 or
  SATA3 ports, you'll be fine. 4 is the minimum.

- Assume that you need to replace the graphics card in order to 
  play games.

-dsr-

Re: OT:hardware query

[Martin Smith]

On 28/06/2019 17:11, mick crane wrote:
The first concern if getting a new PC is that it can play the steam 
games and they are getting really pushy what they need to work.
I never have proper available funds for this stuff these days and 
generally buy used..
The idea is each year or so get something else and move the last one 
down to doing more useful work.
That would mean it should have facility to attach 2 or more internal 
drives and slots for network cards.

If that makes sense what advise something used for 200 UKP ?
mick

if you are anywhere near london you should go to the Stratford computer 
fair lots of good quality secondhand stuff


--
Martin

OT:hardware query

[mick crane]

The first concern if getting a new PC is that it can play the steam 
games and they are getting really pushy what they need to work.
I never have proper available funds for this stuff these days and 
generally buy used..
The idea is each year or so get something else and move the last one 
down to doing more useful work.
That would mean it should have facility to attach 2 or more internal 
drives and slots for network cards.

If that makes sense what advise something used for 200 UKP ?
mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Quick Query

[Joe Thomas]

Hey,

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readers.

This would be a complementary article, so there would be no cost. Would this 
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Looking forward to your response,

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Re: Automounting query

[Ron]

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 20:57:40 +0100
Sven Arvidsson  wrote:

> > always /media/label when automounted.  
> 
> Not using udisks2, or maybe you have entries in /etc/fstab?

Same behaviour for me, nothing in /etc/fstab but I remember I had to modify 
something to get that behaviour.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 De tous ceux qui n'ont rien à dire,
 les plus agréables sont ceux qui se taisent.
  -- Pierre Desproges

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Automounting query

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Sat, 2016-03-05 at 11:28 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> I ask because I have _never_ seen it.  I have also never used GNOME
> except on 
> live CDs and, very occasionally, other people's computers.  But it
> is 
> always /media/label when automounted.

Not using udisks2, or maybe you have entries in /etc/fstab?

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5



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Re: Automounting query

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Fri, 2016-03-04 at 14:42 -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
> drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?

See https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/udisks#Mount_to_.2Fmedia_.28udisks2.29

Not sure why /media/user/label would be a problem though?

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Automounting query

[Gary Dale]

On 05/03/16 06:28 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Saturday 05 March 2016 10:39:13 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 09:31:26 +

Lisi Reisz  wrote:

Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?

Is this a GNOME problem??

Or a systemd one?

Neither; non-systemd jessie, with XFCE.

I remember doing a modification on my system shortly after installing a
couple years ago, completely forgot what; and now I need to do the same on
an install for Eldest Daughter.

I ask because I have _never_ seen it.  I have also never used GNOME except on
live CDs and, very occasionally, other people's computers.  But it is
always /media/label when automounted.

Lisi

Not lately. I'm using Stretch and the behaviour is as reported. I've 
never considered it a problem so I'm not sure when the change happened 
but at least in the current testing distro, auto-mounts come in under 
/media//

Re: Automounting query

[Brian]

On Sat 05 Mar 2016 at 07:39:13 -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:

> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 09:31:26 +
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> 
> > > > Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
> > > > drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?
> 
> > > Is this a GNOME problem??
> > Or a systemd one?
> 
> Neither; non-systemd jessie, with XFCE.
>  
> I remember doing a modification on my system shortly after installing
> a couple years ago, completely forgot what; and now I need to do the
> same on an install for Eldest Daughter.

Have a look at UDISKS_FILESYSTEM_SHARED in udisks(8).

  

Re: Automounting query

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 05 March 2016 10:39:13 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 09:31:26 +
>
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > > > Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
> > > > drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?
> > >
> > > Is this a GNOME problem??
> >
> > Or a systemd one?
>
> Neither; non-systemd jessie, with XFCE.
>
> I remember doing a modification on my system shortly after installing a
> couple years ago, completely forgot what; and now I need to do the same on
> an install for Eldest Daughter.

I ask because I have _never_ seen it.  I have also never used GNOME except on 
live CDs and, very occasionally, other people's computers.  But it is 
always /media/label when automounted.

Lisi

Re: Automounting query

[Ron]

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 09:31:26 +
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> > > Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
> > > drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?

> > Is this a GNOME problem??
> Or a systemd one?

Neither; non-systemd jessie, with XFCE.
 
I remember doing a modification on my system shortly after installing a couple 
years ago, completely forgot what; and now I need to do the same on an install 
for Eldest Daughter.

Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 See, these two penguins walked into a bar, which was really stupid,
  'cause the second one should have seen it.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Automounting query

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 05 March 2016 09:23:03 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Friday 04 March 2016 17:42:15 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
> > Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable
> > drives automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ron.
>
> Is this a GNOME problem??
>
> Lisi

Or a systemd one?

Lisi

Re: Automounting query

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 04 March 2016 17:42:15 Renaud  OLGIATI wrote:
> Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable drives
> automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?
>
> TIA
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ron.

Is this a GNOME problem??

Lisi

Re: Automounting query

[Gary Dale]

On 04/03/16 12:42 PM, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote:

Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable drives 
automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?

TIA
  
Cheers,
  
Ron.


I believe that if you have the drive identified in /etc/fstab to mount 
where you want it, it will override the default location.


For a more general solution, look at 
http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html.

Automounting query

[Ron]

Would a kind soul remind me the invocation needed to have removable drives 
automount to /media/label instead of /media/user/label ?

TIA
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 The first draft of anything is shit.
  -- Ernest Hemingway

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Fonts query

[Ron]

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:03:59 +0100
Siard  wrote:

> > Ta, I'll risk the hackish way as I want those fonts to be available
> > to all users.  
 
> In that case, there is a third way:
> su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts /usr/local/share/fonts"
 
> But the usual way to install fonts system wide beyond the package
> manager is as follows:
> put your fonts into /usr/local/share/fonts instead of ~/MyFonts.

Except that your font collection is lost on the day you format the / partition 
for a new install.

The ln way at least lets them be kept safe in the /home partition.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   If your income doesn't keep up with your outgo,
   then your upkeep will be your downfall.

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Fonts query

[Siard]

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI:
> Reco:
> > Debian-correct upgrade-safe way:
> > su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts ~/.fonts"
> 
> > Hackish you've-been-warned way:
> > Add "~/MyFonts" stanza into /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.
> > Second way is hackish *and* wrong because Keith Packard himself
> > tells you that from the comments of /etc/fonts/fonts.conf :)
> 
> Ta, I'll risk the hackish way as I want those fonts to be available
> to all users.

In that case, there is a third way:
su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts /usr/local/share/fonts"

But the usual way to install fonts system wide beyond the package
manager is as follows:
put your fonts into /usr/local/share/fonts instead of ~/MyFonts.

Re: Fonts query

[Ron]

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:44:03 -0500
Felix Miata  wrote:

> > Ta, I'll risk the hackish way as I want those fonts to be available to all 
> > users.  
> 
> Make symlink from ~/MyFonts to /usr/local/share/fonts

Ta, that should remain through updates.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
Some people are worried about the difference between right and wrong.
I'm worried about the difference between wrong and fun
 -- P.J. O'Rourke

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Fonts query

[Felix Miata]

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI composed on 2016-02-12 16:05 (UTC-0300):

> On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:46:55 +0300 Reco wrote:

>> > Given a collection of .ttf font files I keep in my ~/MyFonts/ directory.
>> > How do I instruct Wheezy to also look in that dir when I run
>> >root@ron:/home/ron # fc-cache -fv
>> > to reload the font cache ?

>> Debian-correct upgrade-safe way:
>> su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts ~/.fonts"

~/.fonts has been deprecated to ~/.config/fonts ?or? ~/.share/fonts, IIRC.

>> Hackish you've-been-warned way:
>> Add "~/MyFonts" stanza into /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.
>> Second way is hackish *and* wrong because Keith Packard himself tells
>> you that from the comments of /etc/fonts/fonts.conf :)

> Ta, I'll risk the hackish way as I want those fonts to be available to all 
> users.

Make symlink from ~/MyFonts to /usr/local/share/fonts

bind mount them if need be

alternatively, move the content of MyFonts to /usr/local/share/fonts. # what
I usually do
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Fonts query

[Ron]

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:46:55 +0300
Reco  wrote:

> > Given a collection of .ttf font files I keep in my ~/MyFonts/ directory.
> > How do I instruct Wheezy to also look in that dir when I run
> > root@ron:/home/ron # fc-cache -fv
> > to reload the font cache ?

> Debian-correct upgrade-safe way:
> su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts ~/.fonts"

> Hackish you've-been-warned way:
> Add "~/MyFonts" stanza into /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.
> Second way is hackish *and* wrong because Keith Packard himself tells
> you that from the comments of /etc/fonts/fonts.conf :)

Ta, I'll risk the hackish way as I want those fonts to be available to all 
users.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 Toute loi qui viole les droits imprescriptibles de l'homme,
 est essentiellement injuste et tyrannique; elle n'est point une loi.
-- Maximilien Robespierre

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Fonts query

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:37:56 -0300
Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI  wrote:

> Given a collection of .ttf font files I keep in my ~/MyFonts/ directory.
> 
> How do I instruct Wheezy to also look in that dir when I run
> 
>   root@ron:/home/ron # fc-cache -fv
> 
> to reload the font cache ?

Debian-correct upgrade-safe way:

su -l  -c "ln -sf ~/MyFonts ~/.fonts"

Hackish you've-been-warned way:

Add "~/MyFonts" stanza into /etc/fonts/fonts.conf.

Second way is hackish *and* wrong because Keith Packard himself tells
you that from the comments of /etc/fonts/fonts.conf :)

Reco

Fonts query

[Ron]

Given a collection of .ttf font files I keep in my ~/MyFonts/ directory.

How do I instruct Wheezy to also look in that dir when I run

root@ron:/home/ron # fc-cache -fv

to reload the font cache ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
 Toute loi qui viole les droits imprescriptibles de l'homme,
 est essentiellement injuste et tyrannique; elle n'est point une loi.
-- Maximilien Robespierre

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 

Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bob Proulx]

Bret Busby wrote:
> And, with Debian 6 LTS, in /etc/apt/sources.list, I have, apart from
> the commented out lines,
> 
> deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
> deb http://http.debian.net/debian squeeze-lts main contrib non-free
> deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian squeeze-lts main contrib non-free

I am only commenting for the archive to confirm that those should be
good.  Here are references for those reading later and wish to check
for updated information.

  https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

  https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using

Bob


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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bret Busby]

On 23/05/2015, Bob Proulx  wrote:
> Bret Busby wrote:
>> ... so, upon checking (using Synaptic) the tzdata package(s), and
>> finding they needed updating, apparently without depending on the
>> kernel update(s), I have now updated the tzdata packages. There are
>> tzdata and tzdata-java, both of which had updates available.
>
> The tzdata package is updated through the stable-updates section, not
> to be confused with the security stable/updates section.  They are
> similarly named but different update channels.  The stable-updates
> path is the one time named "volatile" section for those that remember
> it.  It is for updates that by their nature must update more often
> than the Debian Stable release and point release cycle.
>
> Packages such as tzdata are updated when governments change the
> timezones.  This happens outside of distribution release cycles.
>
> For Debian Stable Jessie 8 the following shows all three sets of
> sources that one should have in their sources.list in order to get all
> of the updates they should be getting.[*] This is the main archive
> where most packages exist, the updates source for packages such as
> tzdata, and the security source for security upgrades.
>
> deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main
> deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main
>
> deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main
> deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main
>
> deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main
> deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main
>

And, with Debian 6 LTS, in /etc/apt/sources.list, I have, apart from
the commented out lines,

"
deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

deb http://http.debian.net/debian squeeze-lts main contrib non-free

deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian squeeze-lts main contrib non-free
"

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bob Proulx]

Bret Busby wrote:
> ... so, upon checking (using Synaptic) the tzdata package(s), and
> finding they needed updating, apparently without depending on the
> kernel update(s), I have now updated the tzdata packages. There are
> tzdata and tzdata-java, both of which had updates available.

The tzdata package is updated through the stable-updates section, not
to be confused with the security stable/updates section.  They are
similarly named but different update channels.  The stable-updates
path is the one time named "volatile" section for those that remember
it.  It is for updates that by their nature must update more often
than the Debian Stable release and point release cycle.

Packages such as tzdata are updated when governments change the
timezones.  This happens outside of distribution release cycles.

For Debian Stable Jessie 8 the following shows all three sets of
sources that one should have in their sources.list in order to get all
of the updates they should be getting.[*] This is the main archive
where most packages exist, the updates source for packages such as
tzdata, and the security source for security upgrades.

deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main
deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie main

deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main
deb-src http://httpredir.debian.org/debian jessie-updates main

deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main

Bob

[*] Note that httpredir.debian.org is the redirector and the same as
if one had the geographic alias ftp.XX.debian.org where XX is your
country code such as ftp.us.debian.org.  Either is okay.  I am using
the redirector in the documentation above so that it is generic.  If
you have the country code alias version that is fine too.


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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bret Busby]

On 22/05/2015, Iain M Conochie  wrote:
>
>
> On 21/05/15 22:15, Bob Proulx wrote:
>> Iain M Conochie wrote:
>>> Bret Busby wrote:
 I have today seen the news report below, and wonder whether it needs
 some kind of patch for Debian Linux, and, if so, whether it has
 already been done, or is pending.
>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=679882#87
>> Good to see that Debian has already implemented the patches through
>> Debian Squeeze LTS.
> To be fair, this was implemented when squeeze was still stable, as
> according to the below link Wheezy was officially released over 7 months
> after this fix
>
> https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
>
>>
>> A reasonably good summary and description of the leapsecond issues
>> appears in the up-voted answer posted here:
>>
>>
>> http://serverfault.com/questions/403732/anyone-else-experiencing-high-rates-of-linux-server-crashes-during-a-leap-second
>>
>> Bob
> Nice one Bob. This link also points out this was an issue with the NTP
> server software (although it seemed in 2012 the main issue was with the
> kernel)
>
>
> Bret
>
>   You may want to also check your version of NTP (if you are running the
> software). You may also want to check your version of the tzdata package
> if you are *not* running NTP. This should be 2015d-0+deb6u1
>
> Iain
>

Hello.

Thank you for that, Iain.

Due to some of my web browsers not having the capability to save
sessions, and with them having multiple windows open, and with kernel
updates requiring a system reboot, each time, this system has not been
updated for a little while, so, upon checking (using Synaptic) the
tzdata package(s), and finding they needed updating, apparently
without depending on the kernel update(s), I have now updated the
tzdata packages. There are tzdata and tzdata-java, both of which had
updates available.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Iain M Conochie]

On 21/05/15 22:15, Bob Proulx wrote:

Iain M Conochie wrote:

Bret Busby wrote:

I have today seen the news report below, and wonder whether it needs
some kind of patch for Debian Linux, and, if so, whether it has
already been done, or is pending.

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=679882#87

Good to see that Debian has already implemented the patches through
Debian Squeeze LTS.
To be fair, this was implemented when squeeze was still stable, as 
according to the below link Wheezy was officially released over 7 months 
after this fix


https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/



A reasonably good summary and description of the leapsecond issues
appears in the up-voted answer posted here:

   
http://serverfault.com/questions/403732/anyone-else-experiencing-high-rates-of-linux-server-crashes-during-a-leap-second

Bob
Nice one Bob. This link also points out this was an issue with the NTP 
server software (although it seemed in 2012 the main issue was with the 
kernel)



Bret

 You may want to also check your version of NTP (if you are running the 
software). You may also want to check your version of the tzdata package 
if you are *not* running NTP. This should be 2015d-0+deb6u1


Iain



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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bob Proulx]

Iain M Conochie wrote:
> Bret Busby wrote:
> >I have today seen the news report below, and wonder whether it needs
> >some kind of patch for Debian Linux, and, if so, whether it has
> >already been done, or is pending.
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=679882#87

Good to see that Debian has already implemented the patches through
Debian Squeeze LTS.

A reasonably good summary and description of the leapsecond issues
appears in the up-voted answer posted here:

  
http://serverfault.com/questions/403732/anyone-else-experiencing-high-rates-of-linux-server-crashes-during-a-leap-second

Bob


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Re: Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Iain M Conochie]

On 21/05/15 09:45, Bret Busby wrote:

Hello.

I have posted this message to the general Debian Users list, rather
than to only the LTS list, as, whilst my interest is limited to Debian
6 LTS, I believe that, if the issue involving any possible problem,
applies, then it would likely apply to all existing versions of Debian
Linux in use.

I have today seen the news report below, and wonder whether it needs
some kind of patch for Debian Linux, and, if so, whether it has
already been done, or is pending.




https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=679882#87

Iain


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Query about possible impact of leap second on Debian Linux

[Bret Busby]

Hello.

I have posted this message to the general Debian Users list, rather
than to only the LTS list, as, whilst my interest is limited to Debian
6 LTS, I believe that, if the issue involving any possible problem,
applies, then it would likely apply to all existing versions of Debian
Linux in use.

I have today seen the news report below, and wonder whether it needs
some kind of patch for Debian Linux, and, if so, whether it has
already been done, or is pending.

At
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-21/warning-issued-over-addition-of-leap-second-to-worlds-clocks/6485976
is

"
Leap second could cause problems for stock market, corporate regulator warns
AM By Jessica Kidd
Updated May 21, 2015 09:51:09

Australia's corporate regulator is warning the addition of a leap
second to 2015 could cause havoc for the stock market and IT
companies.

On June 30 at 11:59.59pm (GMT), an extra second will be added so the
Earth's rotational spin can catch up with the world's atomic clocks.

But while the idea of an extra second in the day might seem small,
computer security expert Dr Suelette Dreyfus warned the consequences
could be significant.

"The last time a leap second was added was on June 30, 2012 and that
did cause some technical problems for popular websites like Reddit and
Mozilla and LinkedIn," she said.

"I understand that Qantas computer systems went down for a period of
time partially because of it.

"So is it going to be the end of the world as we know it? Probably
not, but for companies that haven't actually spent some time thinking
through what it might mean for their systems, there is a risk that
things could go astray."

That risk has prompted the Australian Securities and Investments
Commission (ASIC) to issue a warning on its website.

It urged financial market stakeholders to review their IT systems in
order to address any unwelcome impacts.

"I think ASIC's warning is a really good idea because it's just
basically saying, 'Heads up everybody, you need to stop and think
about whether or not this leap second is going to cause problems for
the type of business that you're in'," Dr Dreyfus said.

"If you're building pools in people's backyards then it's probably not
going to be such an issue for your company.

"If you're doing complex trades second by second in currencies or
commodities, it might actually be an issue."

End of the leap second?

There have been 25 leap seconds since they were introduced in 1972,
but they could soon be lost to time.

The world's governments are due to vote on whether to abolish the leap
second at the World Radiocommunications Conference in Geneva in
November.

Dr Fred Watson, an astronomer with the Australian Astronomical
Observatory, said the Moon was the reason the Earth was slowing down.

"It all comes about because of the tides. The tides essentially use up
energy and it's the Earth's rotational energy that is lost," he said.

"That actually goes to the Moon. In fact, it's what is driving the
Moon to move very slowly further away from the Earth at about 3.5
centimetres per year."

Supporters of the leap second argue corrections are needed to maintain
accurate time for some branches of science.

Those opposed say it is not worth the energy to change the clocks
infrequently and that it will be beneficial for computing to have a
timescale that never needed changing.

Without leap seconds there would be a slip of two to three minutes by
2100 and about half an hour by 2700.
"

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Query about GRUB comand line functionality

[Brian]

On Wed 25 Feb 2015 at 16:55:07 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:

> My query is this; given the specified version of GRUB, and, given that
> the computer does not have an operable operating system, does the GRUB
> command line that is present, have the functionality of being able to
> mount (and then, later, to unmount) a USB thumb drive, and then create
> a file on the thumb drive, and, from a start point to an end point,
> write all commands entered, and the respective output responses, so as
> to be able to save to the file, text that can be conveyed to a mailing
> list, showing exactly what commands are entered, and the response for
> each command entered, for seeking a solution to restore and repair the
> system?

No.


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