Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Rich Kulawiec]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

None.

Free email services are wholly inadequate for professional uses like
participation in mailing lists.  They suffice for some "throwaway"
purposes but none of them have managed to demonstrate acceptable
levels of competence and diligence, and most of them are plagued
by systemic, chronic problems such as laughably bad anti-spam controls
(both in the sense of false negatives and false positives) and
completely non-responsive RFC 2142 role addresses (e.g., postmaster).
A number of them have been repeatedly hacked on a large scale, and
several of them continue to exhibit problems strongly suggesting
that the lights are on, but nobody's home.

If you want quality service, you're going to have to pay for it.
(Note that you also pay for free email services: it's just that the bill
isn't quite so overt.)  I recommend Panix (panix.com) as one provider
worthy of consideration.  (Note: I'm a long-time Panix customer,
however I get nothing for recommending them.)  There are others
who also provide quality service at reasonable rates and who have
demonstrated that they're run by clueful, attentive, responsive people.

---rsk

RE: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Edwin Pers]

-Original Message-
From: Francesco Porro  
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 12:12 PM
To: Debian Users 
Subject: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

>Now, i'm using a free account on yahoo, as you can see, but I get some of 
>email bounces and moreover spam filters are really awful: they mark as spam a 
>lot of non-spam, >genuine mails coming from i.e. the Gnome/Evolution mailing 
>list. Some months ago I was subscribed on my primary account which is a Gmail 
>one, but then I wanted to separat
>mailing lists from the rest (so I moved those to yahoo).


Why not just get another gmail account? Google lets you have as many as you 
like, and you can link them together.

-ed

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[David Wright]

On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 11:26:31 (-0500), John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
> > It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> > provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.
> 
> With Gandi at least, no hosting is required.  They will forward mail to
> your domain to any address you specify.  There needn't be any server of
> any kind associated with the domain.

I'm not sure what use a domain name is if no one is hosting the domain.
Anyway, see the last sentence of this posting.

"Domain registration information is maintained by the domain name
registries, which contract with domain registrars to provide
registration services to the public. An end user selects a
registrar to provide the registration service, and that registrar
becomes the designated registrar for the domain chosen by the
user.

Only the designated registrar may modify or delete information
about domain names in a central registry database. It is not
unusual for an end user to switch registrars, invoking a domain
transfer process between the registrars involved, that is governed
by specific domain name transfer policies." (Wikipedia)

So, for example, I switched registrar because I originally bought my
domain through my then ISP, but I later switched ISP and moved the
domain to an independent registrar because (a) the old ISP wouldn't
host it and (b) it was something not to have to think about again
when later switching ISP.

"Registration of a domain does not automatically imply the
provision of DNS services for the registered domain. Most
registrars do offer DNS hosting as an optional free service for
domains registered through them. If DNS services are not offered,
or the end-user opts out, the end-user is responsible for
procuring or self-hosting DNS services. Without DNS services for
the domain, the registration is essentially useless for Internet
services, although this situation is often encountered with domain
parking and cybersquatting." (ibid.)

"Registrars require the specification of usually at least two name
servers." (ibid.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 29 August 2018 11:58:49 David Wright wrote:

> On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 12:19:18 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > > We get what we pay for [...]
> > >
> > > This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service
> > > I pay 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server
> > > free [...]
> >
> > If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine
> > option. I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low
> > esteem (that might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with
> > something as (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.
>
> And, of course, if you move house, your current ISP might not be
> available. Or you decide you need/don't need cable TV/landline, and
> want to switch provider. Or Fibre To The Cabinet/Premises arrives via
> a different provider. These are all reasons not to commit to your ISP
> as email address provider.
>
> It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.
>
> Cheers,
> David.

I've had the same physical address for 29 years this fall.  I've moved 
providers several times, nearly always for improved service.  All of 
verizons landlines are 60 yo copper, and have been "discovered" by 
everybody in town who owns a garden spade. 5 years ago I lost telephone 
in January, had to complain to the PSC to get it fixed, repeat 4 days 
later, repeat, call the PSC, get cussed out by vz's people asking why I 
kept calling the PSC, wrong question, they hung up on my answer, twice. 

When I looked at the logs about the middle of May, I'd had a working 
telephone for 11 days since the first of the year. I have patience, but 
that was too much since the bills arrived on time and were paid on time 
by my bank , so I moved it all to the local cable company and have had 
zero wishes to ever look back, barring power failures exceeding 12 
hours, it has Just Worked.

I put in a 20kw nat gas standby generator in about in that same time 
frame just so I could keep the AC and the missus's oxygen generator 
running.  Thats been a lifesaver for her.

AFAIAC, vz can go jump off a mountain, preferably west of the San Andreas 
fault, which will, sometime in the next few hundred years, slide into 
the pacific anyway.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:34:37AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomás writes:
> > You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.
> 
> Scarce resources *must* be allocated.  Trade, facilitated by money, is
> a decentralized way to do it.

(straying dangerously off-topic, so I'll stop at this)

...but money can put those who are able to "print" it at an
unfair advantage ("printing" in some figurative sense, speculation
is a form of printing), which tends to end badly when such resources
are vital.

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[John Hasler]

tomás writes:
> You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.

Scarce resources *must* be allocated.  Trade, facilitated by money, is
a decentralized way to do it.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[John Hasler]

David writes:
> It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
> provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.

With Gandi at least, no hosting is required.  They will forward mail to
your domain to any address you specify.  There needn't be any server of
any kind associated with the domain.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 10:48:27AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> tomás writes:
> > If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> > This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> > people fighting to change that, mind you).
> 
> It's not "the sad reality of today's society".  It's reality, period.
> What they do consumes resources.
> 
> > not that there aren't people fighting to change that, mind you
> 
> To what?

You can dream of a society where some basic things aren't monetized.
You can dream of a society where even breathing air is monetized
(the drinking water thing is being worked on right now, no worries).

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[David Wright]

On Wed 29 Aug 2018 at 12:19:18 (+0200), to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > > We get what we pay for [...]
> 
> > This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
> > 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free [...]
> 
> If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
> I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
> might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
> (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

And, of course, if you move house, your current ISP might not be
available. Or you decide you need/don't need cable TV/landline, and
want to switch provider. Or Fibre To The Cabinet/Premises arrives via
a different provider. These are all reasons not to commit to your ISP
as email address provider.

It's cheap to register your own domain and find a suitable hosting
provider. This makes moving and travelling much simpler.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[John Hasler]

tomás writes:
> If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
> I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
> might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
> (hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

Register a domain with Gandi (no need for a Web site) and they will
forward mail sent to it to your current provider.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[John Hasler]

tomás writes:
> If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> people fighting to change that, mind you).

It's not "the sad reality of today's society".  It's reality, period.
What they do consumes resources.

> not that there aren't people fighting to change that, mind you

To what?

> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)

>  - posteo.de
>  - mailbox.org

> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
> Worth every cent, IMHO.

Here in the USA I use Newsguy.  There are others.

> We get what we pay for.

Sometimes.  Want to buy a bridge?
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Francesco Porro]

Il 29/08/2018 10:34, to...@tuxteam.de ha scritto:
> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)
> 
>   - posteo.de
>   - mailbox.org
> 
> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
> Worth every cent, IMHO.

Ok, I'm taking note of these two in case I need a chep but safe place to
store private mails. Thnx :)

-- 
fp



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Francesco Porro]

Thank you for all your precious advices and considerations, expecially
for privacy-releaded concerns. Indeed, I'm very well aware of this
aspects, but perhaps you're missing my point: the mailbox will be used
*only* for mailing lists, which content is (usually) of public domain,
on the web. So privacy is not a strict requirement in this *specific*
use case. I won't feel too bad if my $MAIL_PROVIDER mines data from my
mails since they're not private ones, but i won't feel ok if the mailbox
don't work well technically. As I stated before, I want:

– no ramdom spam filtering (at least the chance to disable the spam
filter, which it seems Y don't let me to).
– full (no restrictions on the amount of data transferred) and stable
imap access.

Since I'm not reading (particular) complaints about Gmx, I think I'm
going to give it a try, subscribing to MLs I'm already sub on this Y
account. Just to see how it behaves, and then I'll decide whether making
the "switch" or not.

Thank everyone again!


-- 
fp

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 12:24:36 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

Hello mick,

>I use Brave browser mostly with handy shields option.
>Some of these media sites have like 80 trackers and wotnot which is
>just daft.

Agreed, but that's something else.

"I don't care..." blocks EU required _warnings_ about cookies being used
on a website(1), nothing more.  If you wish to block cookies selectively,
you need to use some sort of cookie manager - the Firefox internal
'manager' is woefully inadequate.

(1) The warning is asinine;  Everyone knows cookies are used anyway.
It's another case of---
Being seen to be doing something, whilst maintaining the status quo.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Tell the dinosaurs they just won't survive
The History Of The World (Part 1) - The Damned


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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[mick crane]

On 2018-08-29 12:09, Brad Rogers wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:05:21 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

Hello mick,


I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close
on every website anyway.


If you use Firefox, install "I don't care about cookies", which 
disables

those warnings on most sites.  If the warning /isn't/ disabled, there's
an option to submit a report, so that the website can be checked and an
existing rule can be improved or a new rule added to cover it.


I use Brave browser mostly with handy shields option.
Some of these media sites have like 80 trackers and wotnot which is just 
daft.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Brad Rogers]

On Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:05:21 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

Hello mick,

>I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close
>on every website anyway.

If you use Firefox, install "I don't care about cookies", which disables
those warnings on most sites.  If the warning /isn't/ disabled, there's
an option to submit a report, so that the website can be checked and an
existing rule can be improved or a new rule added to cover it.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
I'm not here for your entertainment
U & Ur Hand - P!nk


pgp7HwXkN2wPd.pgp
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

Perhaps relevant in this discussion's context:

  
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/08/29/0919244/yahoo-bucking-industry-scans-emails-for-data-to-sell-advertisers

Some people might feel comfy with that. They're gettint a
no-monetary-cost service, after all. Some not. And I don't
believe this from the original article blindly: "The U.S.
tech industry has largely declared it is off limits to scan
emails for information to sell to advertisers.". Rather it
seems to me about being caught or not. Or about waiting for
more propice times.

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 06:12:39AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > We get what we pay for [...]

> This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
> 40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free [...]

If your connectivity provider treats you well, this is a fine option.
I have my current connectivity provider in relatively low esteem (that
might change), so I wouldn't like to entrust them with something as
(hopefully) permanent as my mail address.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:05:21AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2018-08-29 10:00, Eric S Fraga wrote:
> >On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:
> >>But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?
> >
> >Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
> >protection they may currently have.
> 
> I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to
> close on every website anyway.

Disable javascript in your browser: most cookie notifications (and other
obnoxious things) *poof!* disappear as if by magic.

(Ah, and I disable cookies for most purposes anyway).

Some websites disappear in a black (sometimes white) hole. But sometimes,
it's better to not see some things, anyway. We're entering an era of
attention economy. May those sites go broke, as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 29 August 2018 04:34:38 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> > Ciao,
> >
> > As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for
> > you: which is the best free email service around to receive mailing
> > lists?
>
> As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you
> mean "no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.
>
> If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
> This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't
> people fighting to change that, mind you).
>
> My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
> to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
> which I'd tend to support, were I you)
>
>   - posteo.de
>   - mailbox.org
>
> Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1
> Espresso/month. Worth every cent, IMHO.
>
> We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
> obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
> took the "cheap way out".
>
> Cheers
> -- tomás

This is also true, but on this side of the pond, the inet service I pay 
40 USD a month for, is expected to supply the mail server free, in this 
case a copy of dovecot which has a pop3 portal too and is surprisingly 
low spam because it has an extensive blacklist of crap it doesn't even 
accept so extensive I've had to whitelist half of the mailing lists I'm 
on. For that I have their cable modem, facing a router running dd-wrt, 
which feeds an 8 port switch to connect up the rest of the machines here 
so all have access to the 10 megabyte DL service that usually shows 
around 11, and the correspondingly slower DSL upload thats just under 3 
megabytes/second in actual speed.

dd-wrt's firewall is bullet-proof, nothing comes in that wasn't invited 
except other folks accessing my web page, listed in the sig.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[mick crane]

On 2018-08-29 10:00, Eric S Fraga wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:

But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?


Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
protection they may currently have.


I'm a bit fed up with that stupid cookie notification I have to close on 
every website anyway.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Eric S Fraga]

On Wednesday, 29 Aug 2018 at 09:49, mick crane wrote:
> But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?

Maybe, maybe not, but you can get that UK residents will lose any data
protection they may currently have.
-- 
Eric S Fraga via Emacs 27.0.50 & org 9.1.13 on Debian buster/sid

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[mick crane]

On 2018-08-29 09:34, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:

Ciao,

As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for 
you:

which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?


As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you 
mean

"no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.

If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't 
people

fighting to change that, mind you).

My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
which I'd tend to support, were I you)

  - posteo.de
  - mailbox.org

Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
Worth every cent, IMHO.

We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
took the "cheap way out".


But surely email will stop working after Brexit ?

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 06:12:15PM +0200, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
> 
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

As many others have pointed out in this thread, "free" (I think you mean
"no money" aka "cheap") and "best" somehow are in conflict.

If you're not paying money, they are monetizing you in some other way.
This is the sad reality of today's society (not that there aren't people
fighting to change that, mind you).

My recommendation over here in Germany (which should be as accessible
to you as an Italian, but perhaps there are equivalent Italian offers,
which I'd tend to support, were I you)

  - posteo.de
  - mailbox.org

Each of them cost you 1 EUR/month, which is less than 1 Espresso/month.
Worth every cent, IMHO.

We get what we pay for. Short term (obvious) and long term (less
obvious): those small companies would cease to exist if everyone
took the "cheap way out".

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[mick crane]

On 2018-08-28 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:

Ciao,

As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for 
you:

which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

<>
I'm not knowledge enough to have my own email server advertising its 
presence or host my own domain because it seems like too much work when 
other people will do it for a few quid a year or for free.
I have dovecot, roundcube, sieve, exim, getmail on a PC locally and use 
my Internet service provider's SMTP.

Seems to work OK.
If it's anything important I write a letter.

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Ben Finney]

Francesco Porro  writes:

> Sorry, I forgot to mention that I dont't want to run a mail server by
> myself.
>
> Only *free* mail services, please.

In that case, I recommend against all such services.

The cost of running a mail server that anyone can join for no fee,
practically requires that the operators must make lots of money
exploiting the email users.

So your options are:

* Pay for the valuable service of running an email system, with you as
  the customer, and with a direct interest in not screwing you over.

* Find someone you trust to never screw you over (maybe this is
  yourself), and get that person to put in lots of time and expertise
  operating a mail system indefinitely for you.

* Use a zero-fee email service that is practically guaranteed to exploit
  its users in many ways.

I strongly recommend against the third option.

-- 
 \  “I got an answering machine for my phone. Now when someone |
  `\  calls me up and I'm not home, they get a recording of a busy |
_o__)  signal.” —Steven Wright |
Ben Finney

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Mittwoch, 29. August 2018 schrieb Dominic Knight:
> > > have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the
> > > spam
> > > folder to be able to download them with my precious email client.
> > > I've
>
> That's the fault of your email client or methodology, rather than GMX.
> Mine has the spam folder available on the client where they can be
> viewed, moved or deleted - Evolution/IMAP

Right, I could configure my client to use IMAP.

Thanks,
Stefan

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Dominic Knight]

On Tue, 2018-08-28 at 21:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
> Stefan Krusche  wrote:
> 
> Hello Stefan,
> 
> > have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the
> > spam
> > folder to be able to download them with my precious email client.
> > I've
> 
That's the fault of your email client or methodology, rather than GMX.
Mine has the spam folder available on the client where they can be
viewed, moved or deleted - Evolution/IMAP

> Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?
> 
> > recently started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log
> > in
> > and use the website 
> 
> Of course they do.
> 
I've only had to log in once this year and that was for an upload into
my music folder. While I'm sure they would love you to log in and see
the 'adds' they provide, they never _require_ me to do so.

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Dienstag, 28. August 2018 schrieb Brad Rogers:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
> Stefan Krusche  wrote:

> >have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam
> >folder to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've
>
> Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?

Yes, it is, and being done automatically when you move mails out of the spam 
folder, I think, it's just always another sender which gets sorted out as spam. 
I never saw this happening until about a year ago or so. They probably changed 
their configuration or policy of treating free mail accounts, I think.

Cheers!

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Brad Rogers]

On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 22:23:46 +0200
Stefan Krusche  wrote:

Hello Stefan,

>have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam
>folder to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've

Is it not possible to whitelist the addresses?

>recently started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log in
>and use the website 

Of course they do.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Everything in life should be free, except the bits that belong to me
Selfish Rubbish - Public Image Ltd


pgpBwcFGeHQ4x.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Dienstag, 28. August 2018 schrieb Francesco Porro:
> Ciao,
>
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?
>
> I mean, somethihng that has a good Imap server, good enough to be
> accessed by a MUA like Thunderbird without issues, and good spam filter
> which won't bother me with false-positives?.
>
> Now, i'm using a free account on yahoo, as you can see, but I get some
> of email bounces and moreover spam filters are really awful: they mark
> as spam a lot of non-spam, genuine mails coming from i.e. the
> Gnome/Evolution mailing list. Some months ago I was subscribed on my
> primary account which is a Gmail one, but then I wanted to separate
> mailing lists from the rest (so I moved those to yahoo).
>
> What do you think about GMX?? Is it a good solution for that purpose?
> I've already one signed up so i'd would be trivial to set this apart and
> move to the @gmx.com one.
>
> Thank you!

Hi Francesco,

I'm on gmx.net since long and they frequently give me false positives even with 
addresses which I've been receiving for years or seemingly random messages from 
this or other mailing lists. Everytime I see those in the daily spam report I 
have to log in via their website interface to free them out of the spam folder 
to be able to download them with my precious email client. I've recently 
started to think this provider *wants* me to have to log in and use the website 
with all the horrible ads and articles... and so have been considering, as 
recommended by John Hasler, to switch to a paid email service provider, which 
I'm gonna do soon.

My two cents...

Kind regards,
Stefan

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Mark Rousell]

On 28/08/2018 19:08, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> I would suggest looking for somebody who runs Sympa.
>
> Open source, well supported, more "industrial strength" than Mailman
> (designed for universities, supporting lots of lists).
>
> I've been running it on our servers, for at least a decade (who's
> counting) - it's rock solid, well supported by both a core team (at
> Renater - the French Research & Education Network), and a larger
> community.  (For example, a patch for DMARC came out almost
> immediately.  It took a lot longer for a mailman patch to show up, and
> even longer for it to make into the standard release).  Also, Sympa is
> built around a database, mailman isn't - makes a difference for folks
> running multiple lists.  Lots more things that can be customized.
>
> There's a list of hosting providers at
> https://www.sympa.org/users/custom - but they're mostly in France. 
> You might have to do a little hunting - or post on the sympa users list.
>
> There's also Groupserver (http://groupserver.org) - a rather
> interesting package that does a good job of melding traditional lists,
> with a web-based forum interface.  It's open source, with hosting
> available - from a small group in New Zealand.  It has a bit of
> traction in the "electronic democracy" community.

If I understand correctly, I think that Francesco was asking for a good
(free) email service provider at which he could receive emails from mail
lists, rather than a mail list provider.

Nevertheless, thanks for your mail list software suggestions. I've heard
of Sympa but never seen them described in the manner you did here. And I
am sorry to say that I had never heard of GroupServer before. Thanks for
the useful information.


-- 
Mark Rousell
 
 
 

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Miles Fidelman]

I would suggest looking for somebody who runs Sympa.

Open source, well supported, more "industrial strength" than Mailman 
(designed for universities, supporting lots of lists).


I've been running it on our servers, for at least a decade (who's 
counting) - it's rock solid, well supported by both a core team (at 
Renater - the French Research & Education Network), and a larger 
community.  (For example, a patch for DMARC came out almost 
immediately.  It took a lot longer for a mailman patch to show up, and 
even longer for it to make into the standard release).  Also, Sympa is 
built around a database, mailman isn't - makes a difference for folks 
running multiple lists.  Lots more things that can be customized.


There's a list of hosting providers at 
https://www.sympa.org/users/custom - but they're mostly in France.  You 
might have to do a little hunting - or post on the sympa users list.


There's also Groupserver (http://groupserver.org) - a rather interesting 
package that does a good job of melding traditional lists, with a 
web-based forum interface.  It's open source, with hosting available - 
from a small group in New Zealand.  It has a bit of traction in the 
"electronic democracy" community.


Miles Fidelman


On 8/28/18 12:25 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:

On 28/08/2018 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:

Ciao,

As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?


I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service 
providers.


Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for 
this, assuming you have some kind of always-on connection with a 
static IP you can utilise.


Although incoming spam is a potential problem the real difficulties 
with running your own mail server in my opinion are (a) maintaining 
deliverability of outgoing mail and (b) making sure you're not 
relaying spam. Keeping software and configuration up to date is 
important. However, in the sort of scenario you describe, you might 
not need to use your mail server for outgoing mail which could 
simplify things. Ideally you could use your ISP's or domain provider's 
mail server for outgoing mail whilst directing incoming mail for your 
domain to your own server. (I should add that using your own domain is 
always wise, rather than relying on service providers' email addresses).


Learning how to do all this could involve a learning curve but it's 
entirely feasible.


--
Mark Rousell
  
  
  


--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Francesco Porro]

Il 28/08/2018 18:25, Mark Rousell ha scritto:
> Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for this

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I dont't want to run a mail server by
myself.

Il 28/08/2018 18:39, John Hasler ha scritto:
> I can personally recommend a paid email service: newsguy.com.

Only *free* mail services, please.

Thanx.

-- 
fp

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[John Hasler]

Francesco Porro wrote:
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

Mark writes:
> I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service
> providers.

I can personally recommend a paid email service: newsguy.com.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT] Best (o better than yahoo) mail provider for malinglists

[Mark Rousell]

On 28/08/2018 17:12, Francesco Porro wrote:
> Ciao,
>
> As a member of this mailing list, I have a little (OT) question for you:
> which is the best free email service around to receive mailing lists?

I cannot personally recommend any free, proprietary email service providers.

Instead I'd say that running your own mail server would be best for
this, assuming you have some kind of always-on connection with a static
IP you can utilise.

Although incoming spam is a potential problem the real difficulties with
running your own mail server in my opinion are (a) maintaining
deliverability of outgoing mail and (b) making sure you're not relaying
spam. Keeping software and configuration up to date is important.
However, in the sort of scenario you describe, you might not need to use
your mail server for outgoing mail which could simplify things. Ideally
you could use your ISP's or domain provider's mail server for outgoing
mail whilst directing incoming mail for your domain to your own server.
(I should add that using your own domain is always wise, rather than
relying on service providers' email addresses).

Learning how to do all this could involve a learning curve but it's
entirely feasible.

-- 
Mark Rousell