Re: A viable mutt
* Steve Lamb ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [25.08.08 08:31]: This has never been true and is still not true. It is, of course, the easiest way to weed out the mutt zealots who have never touched a true multi-account client from those mutt users who have and know the difference. Then please state which MUA it is, that is a true multi-account client, so I can test, and see what is so much better, than configuring mutt the right way. Greetings Sebastian -- Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. Karl Marx [EMAIL PROTECTED]@N GÜNTHER mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpCgpQcsaMTN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: A viable mutt
Sebastian Günther wrote: Look at account-hook and folder-hook and in combination with a nice source statement, you everything some bloated GUI mailer has. Even more you can easily adjust your profile on folder basis. This has never been true and is still not true. It is, of course, the easiest way to weed out the mutt zealots who have never touched a true multi-account client from those mutt users who have and know the difference. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote: Are you sure about this ? As of the last time I tested mutt imap, yes, without question. In fact I had gone so far as to take a screencast of mutt deleting 200 messages by copying it to the local machine then uploading it to the trash folder. However, those configuration files have since disappeared. I deleted the screencast when someone else confirmed what I was saying. Posting a screencast at that time seemed overly pedantic. Indeed, when I copy one or several messages from one folder to another, the server log shows me mutt used a COPY command: Ok, that is manual copies, I presume. It's all fine IMHO. Now enable trash and see what it does there. It is entirely possible they have fixed that issue since the last time I tried mutt over imap (which was, incidentally, not all that long ago http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2008-02/msg00724.html). Of course it would be rather humorous since it would make pretty much most of this thread, including my starting it, moot. Which is fine. I can laugh at myself. ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:44:53PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Nicolas KOWALSKI wrote: It's all fine IMHO. Now enable trash and see what it does there. It is entirely possible they have fixed that issue since the last time I tried mutt over imap (which was, incidentally, not all that long ago Ok, I see also this behaviour with the trash patch/options. You may want to use the poor man's trash folder managment, as explained in http://wiki.mutt.org/?MacroSamples. This one works fine with IMAP. -- Nicolas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Wed,20.Aug.08, 16:19:57, Steve Lamb wrote: [...] I prefer that it handle multiple accounts sanely. I haven't looked into it, but 'muttprofile' seems interesting. Of course, it will probably need a lot of fiddling first. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A viable mutt
* Andrei Popescu ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [23.08.08 09:49]: On Wed,20.Aug.08, 16:19:57, Steve Lamb wrote: [...] I prefer that it handle multiple accounts sanely. I haven't looked into it, but 'muttprofile' seems interesting. Of course, it will probably need a lot of fiddling first. mutt has everything on board to use multiple accounts sanely. Of course you have to adjust your muttrc with an editor. Look at account-hook and folder-hook and in combination with a nice source statement, you everything some bloated GUI mailer has. Even more you can easily adjust your profile on folder basis. Regards, Andrei Sebastian -- Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. Karl Marx [EMAIL PROTECTED]@N GÜNTHER mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] pgptEMLBAnQUB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: A viable mutt
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:19:57PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: One of the many faults I find with mutt is its IMAP implementation. In two words, it fails. Copying individual messages from the current folder to any other folder, especially trash, by downloading the message and then uploading it back to the server over the IMAP connection instead of issuing an IMAP copy operation is horribly slow and inefficient. I use mutt regularly with secure imap on my home network. I handle quite a large number of emails. I also use a Macbook with imap to the same server on the same network and I must say I prefer mutt to the very good Macbook Mail-program. Sometime I even prefer mutt on the macbook. My experience is not that it is 'horribly slow and inefficient'. Are you sure that it is not a network-related slowness? To use mutt with more than one imap-account, just create a different mutt-configuration file for each one. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I Thessalonians 4:16,17 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 16:19:57 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: With that one glaring wart hidden I have to say that I've upgraded mutt to viable again. I still don't like having to search for my new mail. If you use the mutt-patched package you can take advantage of the sidebar to have a toggleable list of mailboxes on the left side of the screen. I've further updated that to allow it to show you only folders with new messages. See here for details, and here for packages for Etch: http://blog.steve.org.uk/tags/mutt/ http://www.steve.org.uk/Software/mutt-tagging/packages/ Steve -- Managed Anti-Spam Service http://mail-scanning.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
Daniel Burrows wrote: Do you know how this compares to offlineimap? I've been using that to synchronize mailboxes more-or-less happily for the last few years. I do not, no. I have not used offlineimap so cannot make any comparison. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
Johann Spies wrote: My experience is not that it is 'horribly slow and inefficient'. Are you sure that it is not a network-related slowness? Of course it is, the fact that mutt is using the network to download-then-upload the messages is the entire problem! Which is going to be faster: A: Downloading 2000 messages totaling 10Mb over a 300kps connection then upload them to the Trash folder on a 35kps upload. B: Tell the server, copy these 2000 messages to the Trash folder using the local system BUS oh, and mark them as deleted, thanks. Local system BUS pretty much any broadband connection there is. To use mutt with more than one imap-account, just create a different mutt-configuration file for each one. Yeah, not the same, not even close. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
Steve Kemp wrote: If you use the mutt-patched package you can take advantage of the sidebar to have a toggleable list of mailboxes on the left side of the screen. I've further updated that to allow it to show you only folders with new messages. See here for details, and here for packages for Etch: I'll have to check those out, thanks! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:19:57PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: One of the many faults I find with mutt is its IMAP implementation. In two words, it fails. Copying individual messages from the current folder to any other folder, especially trash, by downloading the message and then uploading it back to the server over the IMAP connection instead of issuing an IMAP copy operation is horribly slow and inefficient. Are you sure about this ? In the mutt sources, imap/message.c, there is the function imap_copy_messages: /* imap_copy_messages: use server COPY command to copy messages to another * folder. * Return codes: * -1: error * 0: success * 1: non-fatal error - try fetch/append */ int imap_copy_messages (CONTEXT* ctx, HEADER* h, char* dest, int delete) Indeed, when I copy one or several messages from one folder to another, the server log shows me mutt used a COPY command: - one message: 1219318281a0045 UID COPY 9048 Junk 1219318281a0045 OK [COPYUID 1219310686 9048 3] Completed - several messages: 1219318299a0046 UID COPY 9037:9048 Junk 1219318299a0046 OK [COPYUID 1219310686 9037:9048 4:15] Completed - several messages at different positions: 1219318385a0087 UID COPY 9036:9039,9044:9048 Junk 1219318385a0087 OK [COPYUID 1219310686 9036:9039,9044:9048 16:24] Completed It's all fine IMHO. -- Nicolas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 03:55:35AM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Of course it is, the fact that mutt is using the network to download-then-upload the messages is the entire problem! Which is going to be faster: A: Downloading 2000 messages totaling 10Mb over a 300kps connection then upload them to the Trash folder on a 35kps upload. B: Tell the server, copy these 2000 messages to the Trash folder using the local system BUS oh, and mark them as deleted, thanks. Well, I have got about 17000 messages on my server and mutt works very fast downloading nothing of them. I use this in my .muttrc to achieve that: set spoolfile=imaps://192.168.0.1/INBOX set folder=imaps://192.168.0.1 set imap_user=js set imap_login=js set imap_pass=mypassword I am not sure whether the imap_user and imap_login both have to be there. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I Thessalonians 4:16,17 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
Hello Steve, Thanks for your heads up on mbsync. I might try it with my GMail accounts, since I still have them on POP precisely for the reason that mutt isn't really capable of handling IMAP fine. But... Quoth Steve Lamb ... The lack of multi-account functionality... What exactly are your issues with Mutt not handling multiple accounts? I use about 4 accounts with Mutt just fine. fetchmail downloads from them all, piping into procmail which actually doesn't really look at the (Delivered-)To: header, since I don't care which account a mail was sent to. Then when sending the mail, I can set the From: field easily (I actually have keyboard macros for my four accounts). The problem is that Mutt is agnostic to 'accounts', I'll give you that one, but I don't think it'd a useful feature -- think about it, what's an account other than a From: field? Or maybe it's been to long since I've used anything besides Mutt and the metaphor is completely lost on me. In that case it would be nice to find out what exactly mutt is lacking. Best, Aleks PS: I think that Claws Mail is a GUI application that has many of Mutt's benefits (including list-reply and the usage of an external editor). Well, except it's a graphical application and it's not so easily scriptable... signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: A viable mutt
?? ?. wrote: The problem is that Mutt is agnostic to 'accounts', I'll give you that one, but I don't think it'd a useful feature -- think about it, what's an account other than a From: field? For those that needs it different SMTP servers with different SMTP settings, different filters, different folders, different incoming mail servers, in short, the ability to completely divorce two utterly different roles of mail without having to apply the carpentry needed to built a small house. IE, when I get promoted if I have a completely separate account that is handled properly I should be able to hand over any account associated with that role to someone else without too much trouble for either of us. Or maybe it's been to long since I've used anything besides Mutt and the metaphor is completely lost on me. In that case it would be nice to find out what exactly mutt is lacking. I admit, it is one of those features where, if you've never really utilized it it is hard to miss. However it is also one of those features that one finds indispensable once you've used it and grown used to it. Kind of like multiple-desktops that are everywhere except for Windowsland. ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A viable mutt
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 04:19:57PM -0700, Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Enter a tool which made mutt viable for my needs, mbsync (debian package - isync). It is a tool which syncronizes a local Maildir folder with a remote imap folder. In essence it is a local imap cache. Mutt's failings as an imap client are masked since all of its operations are local. mbsync is in my crontab syncronizing the local cache with the remote folders once every 5 minutes. Do you know how this compares to offlineimap? I've been using that to synchronize mailboxes more-or-less happily for the last few years. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
