Re: Debian Jessie Release
Richard Hector wrote: > On 11/08/14 06:05, Sven Hartge wrote: >> The release will be sometimes after that, probably in the spring. > Ahem. Spring happens at different times in different places (if at > all). I don't consider it an appropriate description on an > international list ;-) Right. I meant the northern hemisphere spring, months March to July. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0athv2e7c...@mids.svenhartge.de
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On 08/12/2014 08:02 PM, Richard Hector wrote: On 11/08/14 06:05, Sven Hartge wrote: The release will be sometimes after that, probably in the spring. Ahem. Spring happens at different times in different places (if at all). I don't consider it an appropriate description on an international list ;-) Something like "First Quarter" would be better. :) Ric -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53eac276.6080...@gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On 11/08/14 06:05, Sven Hartge wrote: The release will be sometimes after that, probably in the spring. Ahem. Spring happens at different times in different places (if at all). I don't consider it an appropriate description on an international list ;-) Richard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53eaab31.2050...@walnut.gen.nz
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:14:48 +0300 Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Ma, 12 aug 14, 14:31:29, Joe wrote: > > > > > I believe there is, though I have not yet tried to use it. The > > point is that, going back two of your paragraphs, it is a *change*, > > and if not manually corrected will therefore break existing systems > > on upgrade. I would have preferred to see it done the other way > > around, i.e. that unfamiliar mount points listed in fstab would > > need some sort of 'abort the boot if this doesn't mount' flag to be > > added. > > See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756103#35 > > > By the way, if the boot is aborted, it would be nice to have some > > sort of shell access available. When this fstab issue bit me, there > > was no control available at all other than the Big Red Switch. Even > > grub2 drops you into a rescue shell when it's unhappy, as I know > > well. > > That's probably one of #755581 or #751624. > Yes, I'm sure it's not intended behaviour. But there's only so much point in trying to fix sid at the moment. Is there a word for 'beyond unstable'? I've installed apt-cacher-ng on my server to try to keep the downloads within some sort of reason. I have five sids, and they're all hungry, all the time... -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140812205531.76b43...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Ma, 12 aug 14, 14:31:29, Joe wrote: > > > I believe there is, though I have not yet tried to use it. The point is > that, going back two of your paragraphs, it is a *change*, and if > not manually corrected will therefore break existing systems on > upgrade. I would have preferred to see it done the other way around, > i.e. that unfamiliar mount points listed in fstab would need some sort > of 'abort the boot if this doesn't mount' flag to be added. See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756103#35 > By the way, if the boot is aborted, it would be nice to have some sort > of shell access available. When this fstab issue bit me, there was no > control available at all other than the Big Red Switch. Even grub2 > drops you into a rescue shell when it's unhappy, as I know well. That's probably one of #755581 or #751624. Kind regard, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:07:36 +0200 Sven Hartge wrote: > Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > On Du, 10 aug 14, 22:22:20, Sven Hartge wrote: > > >> All other were mostly misconfigrations which kinda worked before, > >> because sysvinit was more forgiving or just papered over the error, > >> for example unavailable volumes during boot without "nofail" or > >> "_netdev". > > > It's also very unforgiving of wrong fstab entries (see #756103). > > Right. > > >From a desktop users perspective, this behavior is quite astonishing. > More so if it has been working with sysvinit for the last umpteen > years. > > With my server admin hat on, I like this strictness. I _want_ a boot > to fail if not all filesystems are available. > All files required to *boot* must be available in / and/or /boot. I believe it is not trivial to require an additional filesystem to be available to grub2, hence the need to merge /usr into / at some point for those who have them separate at the moment. Additional filesystems may be mounted 'at boot', meaning automatically when the computer is started rather than manually later, while not being required for the boot process itself. I think the boot should not fail if such filesystems are unavailable, but that suitable error messages should be issued allowing the problems to be fixed. There seems to be a bluetooth issue in sid at the moment, but this doesn't halt the boot process, nor should it. I have a number of network filesystems mounted 'at boot', but I'd be very annoyed if a computer wouldn't boot because of network issues. Clearly, network-mounted filesystems are not considered essential for the boot process to complete, but local filesystems which are not mounted on well-known *nix system directories are. > Maybe some configurable option is in order here, to allow the admin to > set the level of strictness he wants. > I believe there is, though I have not yet tried to use it. The point is that, going back two of your paragraphs, it is a *change*, and if not manually corrected will therefore break existing systems on upgrade. I would have preferred to see it done the other way around, i.e. that unfamiliar mount points listed in fstab would need some sort of 'abort the boot if this doesn't mount' flag to be added. By the way, if the boot is aborted, it would be nice to have some sort of shell access available. When this fstab issue bit me, there was no control available at all other than the Big Red Switch. Even grub2 drops you into a rescue shell when it's unhappy, as I know well. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140812143129.3d882...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Du, 10 aug 14, 22:22:20, Sven Hartge wrote: >> All other were mostly misconfigrations which kinda worked before, >> because sysvinit was more forgiving or just papered over the error, >> for example unavailable volumes during boot without "nofail" or >> "_netdev". > It's also very unforgiving of wrong fstab entries (see #756103). Right. >From a desktop users perspective, this behavior is quite astonishing. More so if it has been working with sysvinit for the last umpteen years. With my server admin hat on, I like this strictness. I _want_ a boot to fail if not all filesystems are available. Maybe some configurable option is in order here, to allow the admin to set the level of strictness he wants. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/matfkq9en...@mids.svenhartge.de
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Andrei POPESCU wrote: >Sven Hartge wrote: >> All other were mostly misconfigrations which kinda worked before, >> because sysvinit was more forgiving or just papered over the error, for >> example unavailable volumes during boot without "nofail" or "_netdev". > > It's also very unforgiving of wrong fstab entries (see #756103). yes, i got bit by that one last week. i also put in a wishlist item for a better method of handling failed items rather than clobbering the terminals of the rescue mode. as the common suggestion is to open an alternate terminal i suggested to open that up immediately and then at least you have a way of interacting before considering something a fatal error. one comment i've seen in a few bugs is that how are the systemd developers supposed to know when something not coming up is really fatal or not. i think asking the user is one way to avoid a lot of unneeded failures. in my case if i'd gotten an alternate terminal asking me if having a cd player unavailable was fatal the answer would have easily been no, and then i could have known right away what the issue was related to, had a bootable system and not had to jump through a lot of hoops to figure out what was going on (turning off quiet boot, turning on persistent journaling, installing a bootable wheezy, etc.). songbird -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cfunbb-7o8@id-306963.user.uni-berlin.de
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Du, 10 aug 14, 22:22:20, Sven Hartge wrote: > > All other were mostly misconfigrations which kinda worked before, > because sysvinit was more forgiving or just papered over the error, for > example unavailable volumes during boot without "nofail" or "_netdev". It's also very unforgiving of wrong fstab entries (see #756103). Kind regards, Andrei -- http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On 8/11/14, Sven Hartge wrote: > Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: > >> I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. > > The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for > December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in > the spring. > > As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast > found bugs are fixed I would think it should not matter _how_ the devs fix bugs that are found fast. > and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release > teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. I trust the DDs to be above such silliness. Users on the other hand... On 8/11/14, Tom H wrote: > On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Erwan David wrote: >> >> PS: and I am still waiting for the replacement of policy-rc.d > > We know; you've complained here more than once. > > Have you filed a bug report? About the right to complain? On 8/11/14, Sven Hartge wrote: > Just sitting there and complaining ad infinitum and hoping someone > else will do the needed work is not going to make things happen. Where would we file a bug to axe complaining? Perhaps against the Debian CoC? Enough identical complaints might indeed make things happen... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caosgnsrmnyt6fftuh4obb9vbm2vxmbuwdadbqxqtvhmvm1f...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 08:05:46PM +0200, Sven Hartge wrote: > Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: > > > I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. > > The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for > December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in > the spring. > > As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast > found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release > teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. ... or love of systemd. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140811122214.GQ1063@tal
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Jimmy Johnson wrote: > Sven Hartge wrote: >> Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: >>> I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. >> >> The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for >> December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably >> in the spring. >> >> As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how >> fast found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the >> release teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. > With Squeeze now being LTS until 2016 and also oldstable too, what > will Wheezy be when Jessie goes stable, how do you think it's going to > be handled? I don't know. I guess it depends on how many companies want to spend money on paying DDs to keep maintaining Wheezy after the Release of Jessie. Same as it is with Squeeze right now. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/katcs3fen...@mids.svenhartge.de
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Bret Busby wrote: With Squeeze now being LTS until 2016 and also oldstable too, what will Wheezy be when Jessie goes stable, how do you think it's going to be handled? Does that last post, mean that "Jessie" is the version of Debian, that comes after Debian 7.x? Wheezy is the current stable and Jessie is the current testing, so yes Jessie will be the new stable release. -- Jimmy Johnson Debian-Live - Wheezy - KDE 4.8.4 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda1 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e85f4e.8040...@gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On 11/08/2014, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > Sven Hartge wrote: >> Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: >> >>> I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. >> >> The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for >> December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in >> the spring. >> >> As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast >> found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release >> teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. > > > With Squeeze now being LTS until 2016 and also oldstable too, what will > Wheezy be when Jessie goes stable, how do you think it's going to be > handled? > -- > Jimmy Johnson > > Debian-Live - Wheezy - KDE 4.8.4 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda1 > Registered Linux User #380263 > > Does that last post, mean that "Jessie" is the version of Debian, that comes after Debian 7.x? -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CACX6j8Md9wdNUNZm2u2SU7tdvMUkOUG0QqHxpe=qKV==-tb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Sven Hartge wrote: Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in the spring. As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. With Squeeze now being LTS until 2016 and also oldstable too, what will Wheezy be when Jessie goes stable, how do you think it's going to be handled? -- Jimmy Johnson Debian-Live - Wheezy - KDE 4.8.4 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda1 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e80b11.7050...@gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Erwan David wrote: > Le 10/08/2014 20:05, Sven Hartge a écrit : >> Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: >>> I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. >> The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for >> December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably >> in the spring. >> As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how >> fast found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the >> release teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. > When I see bugs whose result is "some configurations cannot boot", and > which are not rlagged RC, I do not doubt that jessie will be released. The only not-running configuration I have seen so far has been with crypto-volumes using a keyfile. This is a real bug and should be resolved before release. All other were mostly misconfigrations which kinda worked before, because sysvinit was more forgiving or just papered over the error, for example unavailable volumes during boot without "nofail" or "_netdev". > I however doubt it will run on all configuratons it should. Maybe. Report bugs for those configurations which don't work and help the maintainers and developers sorting them out. Just sitting there and complaining ad infinitum and hoping someone else will do the needed work is not going to make things happen. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/gatb8sjen...@mids.svenhartge.de
Re: Debian Jessie Release
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Erwan David wrote: > > PS: and I am still waiting for the replacement of policy-rc.d We know; you've complained here more than once. Have you filed a bug report? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAOdo=SxP7nPAjjGkqShEM0kL2ga1zv=x3jlj0uwvuwwaida...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian Jessie Release
2014-08-10 19:51 keltezéssel, Gábor Hársfalvi írta: > Dear List, > > I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. > > Thanks When it is ready. -- --- Friczy --- 'Death is not a bug, it's a feature' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e7ba0c.7020...@freemail.hu
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Le 10/08/2014 20:05, Sven Hartge a écrit : > Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: > >> I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. > The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for > December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in > the spring. > > As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast > found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release > teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. When I see bugs whose result is "some configurations cannot boot", and which are not rlagged RC, I do not doubt that jessie will be released. I however doubt it will run on all configuratons it should. PS: and I am still waiting for the replacement of policy-rc.d -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53e7b604.7070...@rail.eu.org
Re: Debian Jessie Release
Gábor Hársfalvi wrote: > I wish to know when will be the final release of Debian Jessie. The soft-freeze will be in September. The hard-freeze is planned for December, AFAIK. The release will be sometimes after that, probably in the spring. As always: it will be ready when it's ready. It all depends on how fast found bugs are fixed and how many DDs try to throw sticks in the release teams wheels over their hatred of systemd. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/datb14aen...@mids.svenhartge.de
