Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 08/02/18 01:22 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:


On 08.02.18 08:42, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 01:36:41PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:

[...]


[...] Fastidious fusspotting on minor terminology matters [...]


Yikes :-)

May I steal this one when I need it badly?


It's escaped now, so please feel free. Here's hoping it's not badly
needed too often.


I'm still chuckling about "the entomological leviathan that is Windows."

--
cgi...@surfnaked.ca (Charlie Gibbs)

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Richard Hector]

On 08/02/18 15:36, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> Please don't use "class B" to mean /16. Firstly, it's decades out of
>> date, and secondly, that range was never in the class B section.
> I'm decades out of date too, so it's apt. The intended audience can
> probably discern the message that a broader common netmask doesn't weigh
> more than a precisely fitted one which might or might not work as
> expected. Fastidious fusspotting on minor terminology matters does not
> contribute anything to the meat of the matter, no matter how much it
> massages the author's ego.

The thing is, I don't consider this a minor terminology matter. It's
adding confusion to the subject by persisting with out of date concepts.
We'd all be better off forgetting about classes, but people keep
bringing them back up again ...

Richard




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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Erik Christiansen]

On 08.02.18 08:42, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 01:36:41PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > [...] Fastidious fusspotting on minor terminology matters [...]
> 
> Yikes :-)
> 
> May I steal this one when I need it badly?

It's escaped now, so please feel free. Here's hoping it's not badly
needed too often.

Erik

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

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On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 01:36:41PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:

[...]

> [...] Fastidious fusspotting on minor terminology matters [...]

Yikes :-)

May I steal this one when I need it badly?

Cheers
- -- tomás
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=25dI
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Erik Christiansen]

On 07.02.18 12:13, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 09:58:55PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > Michelle, that netmask is 0b1001 , which is
> > the first I have ever seen with a hole in it.
> 
> No, that would be       0111     (some spacing
> added for legibility). But the "hole" thing still is there. I have no idea
> what network equipment will do on that.

Rats, yes, a late-night addition of one when a subtraction was needed.

On 08.02.18 03:33, Richard Hector wrote:
> On 07/02/18 23:58, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > Not trusting the software to handle an unusual netmask, I might have
> > been tempted to just use a class B netmask, 255.255.0.0 , but then I can
> > be a Feigling in such matters.
> 
> Please don't use "class B" to mean /16. Firstly, it's decades out of
> date, and secondly, that range was never in the class B section.

I'm decades out of date too, so it's apt. The intended audience can
probably discern the message that a broader common netmask doesn't weigh
more than a precisely fitted one which might or might not work as
expected. Fastidious fusspotting on minor terminology matters does not
contribute anything to the meat of the matter, no matter how much it
massages the author's ego.

Erik

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 07 February 2018 07:09:59 Michael Stone wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 10:02:18AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> >However, the lead to the problem, that I need more then 256 IP
> > addresses and since I do not want to install my own  Linux  router 
> > behind  my  3G Gateway only to have 512 IP adresses or more, I
> > decided to increaase the network with 255.255.127.0. and if the IP
> > is e.g. 192.168.4.12, then the IP range become automatically
> > 192.168.4.0-192.168.5.255.
>
> As someone already pointed out, this is a bogus netmask. I recommend
>
> sipcalc as a handy tool for figuring out network information:
> > sipcalc 192.168.4.0/23
>
> -[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0/23] - 0
>
> [CIDR]
> Host address  - 192.168.4.0
> Host address (decimal)- 3232236544
> Host address (hex)- C0A80400
> Network address   - 192.168.4.0
> Network mask  - 255.255.254.0
> Network mask (bits)   - 23
> Network mask (hex)- FE00
> Broadcast address - 192.168.5.255
> Cisco wildcard- 0.0.1.255
> Addresses in network  - 512
> Network range - 192.168.4.0 - 192.168.5.255
> Usable range  - 192.168.4.1 - 192.168.5.254
>
> > sipcalc -4 "192.168.4.0 255.255.127.0"
>
> -[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0 255.255.127.0] - 0
>
> -[ERR : Invalid netmask]
>
> > sipcalc -4 "192.168.4.0 255.255.128.0"
>
> -[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0 255.255.128.0] - 0
>
> [CIDR]
> Host address  - 192.168.4.0
> Host address (decimal)- 3232236544
> Host address (hex)- C0A80400
> Network address   - 192.168.0.0
> Network mask  - 255.255.128.0
> Network mask (bits)   - 17
> Network mask (hex)- 8000
> Broadcast address - 192.168.127.255
> Cisco wildcard- 0.0.127.255
> Addresses in network  - 32768
> Network range - 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.127.255
> Usable range  - 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.127.254

Finally, some sanity in this thread, thank you Michael.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Richard Hector]

On 07/02/18 23:58, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 07.02.18 09:33, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Good morning,
>>
>> Am 2018-02-07 hackte Gene Heskett in die Tasten:
>>> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
 1. auto enp0s25
  iface enp0s25 inet
 static address 192.168.0.202
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 gateway 192.168.0.1
 network 192.168.0.0

 netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
 there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.

>>> You should go and read that man page again.
>>
>> Who do you mean?
>>
>> I have als a network with
>>
>> auto eth2
>> iface eth2 inet static
>> address 192.168.4.12
>> netmask 255.255.127.0
>> gateway 192.168.4.1
>> network 192.168.4.0
>>
>> So, it is not so good idea to leafe it out
> 
> Michelle, that netmask is 0b1001 , which is
> the first I have ever seen with a hole in it. For 512 addresses, I'd
> have expected 255.255.254.0, which has contiguous bits:
> 0b1110 (If 10 bits (1024 addresses) were the
> aim, then it would be 252, but never 127, if I have any kind of grip on
> this stuff.)
> 
> Not trusting the software to handle an unusual netmask, I might have
> been tempted to just use a class B netmask, 255.255.0.0 , but then I can
> be a Feigling in such matters.

Please don't use "class B" to mean /16. Firstly, it's decades out of
date, and secondly, that range was never in the class B section.

All it does is add confusion. Better never to refer to classes at all.

Richard



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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Curt]

On 2018-02-07, Michelle Konzack  wrote:
>
> Grmpf! -8°C and new snow over night!  We have arround 50cm here. Not even
> my Honda F400 (roten a replacment motor with 4,8kW) can cope with it.
> Again a day inside!
>


They're predicting (I mean the cute lady who weather reports for France
2) -6°C for tomorrow morning in Paris. Here in the suburbs where we lack
singularly in human warmth we should have -10°C or something. With one
of those nasty little northerlies that cut through you like a knife.
There is also a good deal of that fluffy crystalline white substance
around (10-15 cm?).

Respite today and tomorrow snow-wise (weather clears=mercury drops) but
*rebelote* Friday.

Of course they are unaccustomed and chronically and expressly unprepared
(walk or forget it, unless you want to spend the night in a train
station or a gymnasium or in the middle of the road behind and in front
of a line of cars stretching, for all intents and purposes, to infinity).


-- 
“True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class
is running the country.” – Kurt Vonnegut

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 10:02:18AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:

However, the lead to the problem, that I need more then 256 IP addresses
and since I do not want to install my own  Linux  router  behind  my  3G
Gateway only to have 512 IP adresses or more, I decided to increaase the
network with 255.255.127.0. and if the IP is e.g. 192.168.4.12, then the
IP range become automatically 192.168.4.0-192.168.5.255.


As someone already pointed out, this is a bogus netmask. I recommend 
sipcalc as a handy tool for figuring out network information:



sipcalc 192.168.4.0/23

-[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0/23] - 0

[CIDR]
Host address- 192.168.4.0
Host address (decimal)  - 3232236544
Host address (hex)  - C0A80400
Network address - 192.168.4.0
Network mask- 255.255.254.0
Network mask (bits) - 23
Network mask (hex)  - FE00
Broadcast address   - 192.168.5.255
Cisco wildcard  - 0.0.1.255
Addresses in network- 512
Network range   - 192.168.4.0 - 192.168.5.255
Usable range- 192.168.4.1 - 192.168.5.254


sipcalc -4 "192.168.4.0 255.255.127.0"

-[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0 255.255.127.0] - 0

-[ERR : Invalid netmask]


sipcalc -4 "192.168.4.0 255.255.128.0"

-[ipv4 : 192.168.4.0 255.255.128.0] - 0

[CIDR]
Host address- 192.168.4.0
Host address (decimal)  - 3232236544
Host address (hex)  - C0A80400
Network address - 192.168.0.0
Network mask- 255.255.128.0
Network mask (bits) - 17
Network mask (hex)  - 8000
Broadcast address   - 192.168.127.255
Cisco wildcard  - 0.0.127.255
Addresses in network- 32768
Network range   - 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.127.255
Usable range- 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.127.254

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 10:22:56AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:

"Defaults" looks in my eyes, it  count  for  the  private  networks  10,
172 and 192.168 which is logic and the eleminating  of  the  IP  classes
concern only PUBLIC IP addresses  and  NOT  the  three  defined  private
ranges.  However anything which is below of this, has to  be  configured
in a proper way.


No, I've never run into anyone using 10. address space as a single /8 
rather than dividing it into smaller networks. I'm sure someone does, 
but it's definitely not a normal configuration.


Mike Stone

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

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On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 09:58:55PM +1100, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 07.02.18 09:33, Michelle Konzack wrote:

[...]
> > auto eth2
> > iface eth2 inet static
> > address 192.168.4.12
> > netmask 255.255.127.0
> > gateway 192.168.4.1
> > network 192.168.4.0
> > 
> > So, it is not so good idea to leafe it out
> 
> Michelle, that netmask is 0b1001 , which is
> the first I have ever seen with a hole in it.

No, that would be       0111     (some spacing
added for legibility). But the "hole" thing still is there. I have no idea
what network equipment will do on that. But at least the Linux networking
stack keeps you from doing that:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.230.5 netmask 255.255.127.0
  SIOCSIFNETMASK: Invalid argument

Whereas:
  tomas@trotzki:~$ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.230.5 netmask 255.255.128.0

does work without complaints.

(to the purists out there: I can't for the life of me remember what 'ip'
wants me to chant to achieve that! I keep using both...)


>   For 512 addresses, I'd
> have expected 255.255.254.0, which has contiguous bits:
> 0b1110 (If 10 bits (1024 addresses) were the
> aim, then it would be 252, but never 127, if I have any kind of grip on
> this stuff.)

Yes.

> Not trusting the software to handle an unusual netmask, I might have
> been tempted to just use a class B netmask, 255.255.0.0 , but then I can
> be a Feigling in such matters.

CIDR should Just Work. But holes, OTOH...

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Curt]

On 2018-02-07, Michelle Konzack  wrote:
> Hi Curt,
>
> Am 2018-02-07 hackte Curt in die Tasten:
>> On 2018-02-07, Michelle Konzack  wrote:
>>> The other thing is, I can not figure out, what gthumb is missing
>>> and lead to a SEGFAULT at startup...
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888568
>
> Yeah, this is my one.
>
>> (So you installed with systemd and then extirpated it in favor of
>> sysvinit?)
>
> I have not the time and nerv, to build a Debian  Installer-CD/DVD  which
> use sysv-init.  Which mean, I have to remove it directly after rebooting
> and install 8 of my replacement packages.

Oh, I see, I was thinking in terms of the netinstall method of
installation.

https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Installing_without_systemd
https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/6ssqyj/installing_debian_stretch_without_systemd/

Can't vouch for these techniques myself.

> I create a Meta-Package for the future, which also install automatically
> my own sources.list (Mirror with modified systemd free packages)
>
>> (At least) partially due to bug in libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37?
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=873084
>>
>> Have you 'libgl1-mesa-dri' installed?
>
> I just see, that it was a singel apt-get operation.
> Yes, I have installed this lib manually...
> ...and gthumb is woking since then!
>
> However, I have installed it because of  another  packages  which  ended
> also with a  SEGFAULT.   It  seems,  there  are  MANY  Packages  missing
> essential dependencies... :-(
>
> Have a nice day
>


-- 
“True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class
is running the country.” – Kurt Vonnegut

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Erik Christiansen]

On 07.02.18 09:33, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Good morning,
> 
> Am 2018-02-07 hackte Gene Heskett in die Tasten:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> >> 1. auto enp0s25
> >>  iface enp0s25 inet
> >> static address 192.168.0.202
> >> netmask 255.255.255.0
> >> gateway 192.168.0.1
> >> network 192.168.0.0
> >>
> >> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> >> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> >>
> > You should go and read that man page again.
> 
> Who do you mean?
> 
> I have als a network with
> 
> auto eth2
> iface eth2 inet static
> address 192.168.4.12
> netmask 255.255.127.0
> gateway 192.168.4.1
> network 192.168.4.0
> 
> So, it is not so good idea to leafe it out

Michelle, that netmask is 0b1001 , which is
the first I have ever seen with a hole in it. For 512 addresses, I'd
have expected 255.255.254.0, which has contiguous bits:
0b1110 (If 10 bits (1024 addresses) were the
aim, then it would be 252, but never 127, if I have any kind of grip on
this stuff.)

Not trusting the software to handle an unusual netmask, I might have
been tempted to just use a class B netmask, 255.255.0.0 , but then I can
be a Feigling in such matters.

Erik

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hi Curt,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Curt in die Tasten:
> On 2018-02-07, Michelle Konzack  wrote:
>> The other thing is, I can not figure out, what gthumb is missing
>> and lead to a SEGFAULT at startup...
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888568

Yeah, this is my one.

> (So you installed with systemd and then extirpated it in favor of
> sysvinit?)

I have not the time and nerv, to build a Debian  Installer-CD/DVD  which
use sysv-init.  Which mean, I have to remove it directly after rebooting
and install 8 of my replacement packages.

I create a Meta-Package for the future, which also install automatically
my own sources.list (Mirror with modified systemd free packages)

> (At least) partially due to bug in libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37?
>
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=873084
>
> Have you 'libgl1-mesa-dri' installed?

I just see, that it was a singel apt-get operation.
Yes, I have installed this lib manually...
...and gthumb is woking since then!

However, I have installed it because of  another  packages  which  ended
also with a  SEGFAULT.   It  seems,  there  are  MANY  Packages  missing
essential dependencies... :-(

Have a nice day

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Curt]

On 2018-02-07, Michelle Konzack  wrote:
> Hi Richard,
>
> Am 2018-02-07 hackte Richard Hector in die Tasten:
>> On 07/02/18 04:54, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>>> Sorry, I ment dbus-x11
>>
>> "apt-rdepends blueman" (you might want to install apt-rdepends) doesn't
>> list dbus-x11 anywhere. If blueman really needs it, then either it or
>> one of its other dependencies is failing to declare it, which would be a
>> bug.
>
> And it is.  Confirmed by the Maintainer!
>
> The other thing is, I can not figure out, what gthumb is missing
> and lead to a SEGFAULT at startup...

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=888568

(So you installed with systemd and then extirpated it in favor of
sysvinit?)

(At least) partially due to bug in libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37?

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=873084

Have you 'libgl1-mesa-dri' installed?

> If I have more time and a Monitor for my two Mini-ITX, I will redo
> the installation based on what I have on the T400 to fugure out,
> which depends are missing.
>
> Note:  I know apt-rdepends and use it since quiet a time
>
>> Richard
>
> Have a nice day
>


-- 
“True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class
is running the country.” – Kurt Vonnegut

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

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On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 07:07:55PM +, Brian wrote:

> [...] reducing the number of moving parts should please someone:

Touché ;-P

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Michael,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Michael Stone in die Tasten:
> Richard is correct here. The changelog is saying that the IF_NETMASK
> environment variable will reflect the defaults even if they aren't
> specified in the configuration (this differs from the documentation
> which otherwise states that the environment will reflect the
> configuration file contents). It is *not* saying that ifupdown will
> somehow guess what the correct netmask is. As I said earlier, it
> defaults to setting the mask based on the address class, as defined in
> RFC 791 back in 1981. So, for example, a 10. IP will use a /8 netmask, a
> 172. address will use a /16 netmask, etc. If you use a 192. address you
> might get lucky because those IPs were in the class C space and the
> netmask will default to /24--which is a common configuration for
> consumer network devices. But IP classes are obsolete and have been
> since the early 90s--so it's best not to rely on them being correct when
> setting up your network.

Not to offend anyone here, but I would say, everybody is right here.

"Defaults" looks in my eyes, it  count  for  the  private  networks  10,
172 and 192.168 which is logic and the eleminating  of  the  IP  classes
concern only PUBLIC IP addresses  and  NOT  the  three  defined  private
ranges.  However anything which is below of this, has to  be  configured
in a proper way.

> Mike Stone

Have a nice day
-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: Brian
> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 20:23:13 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> The changelog says:
>
>   * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
> one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
> specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.
>
> What is the significance of "...so even if a user haven't supplied ..."?

I assume, that the mean, AS LONG as you use standard configs e.g. Networks
with 256 IP addreses, then anythin work automatically...

Anything else require a MANUAL FULL CONFIGURATION

Have a nice day

Grmpf! -8°C and new snow over night!  We have arround 50cm here. Not even
my Honda F400 (roten a replacment motor with 4,8kW) can cope with it.
Again a day inside!

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Brian,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Brian in die Tasten:
> On Wed 07 Feb 2018 at 13:42:04 +1300, Richard Hector wrote:
>> The netmask line is an alternative to that. You need to tell it
>> _somehow_ how big the subnet is.
>
> As a changelog from May 2012 says:
>
>   * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
> one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
> specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.

Thats true, but this is only for a standard config using e.g.

192.168.0.0
10.0.0.0

networks.  Since Media Converter (Ethernet-Fiber) cost only arround  65€
I decided to cable my whole BioFarm with arround 2500m to connect all my
sensors to the grid.  And no, Wifi  is  no  option,  because  there  are
criminals using Wifi Jammer and then the WHOLE network is for the ass.

However, the lead to the problem, that I need more then 256 IP addresses
and since I do not want to install my own  Linux  router  behind  my  3G
Gateway only to have 512 IP adresses or more, I decided to increaase the
network with 255.255.127.0. and if the IP is e.g. 192.168.4.12, then the
IP range become automatically 192.168.4.0-192.168.5.255.

Without Netmask it can not be guessed by any systems, that you have more
then 256 IP addresses.

Have a nice day

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hi Richard,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Richard Hector in die Tasten:
> On 07/02/18 04:54, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Sorry, I ment dbus-x11
>
> "apt-rdepends blueman" (you might want to install apt-rdepends) doesn't
> list dbus-x11 anywhere. If blueman really needs it, then either it or
> one of its other dependencies is failing to declare it, which would be a
> bug.

And it is.  Confirmed by the Maintainer!

The other thing is, I can not figure out, what gthumb is missing
and lead to a SEGFAULT at startup...

If I have more time and a Monitor for my two Mini-ITX, I will redo
the installation based on what I have on the T400 to fugure out,
which depends are missing.

Note:  I know apt-rdepends and use it since quiet a time

> Richard

Have a nice day

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Richard,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Richard Hector in die Tasten:
> On 07/02/18 08:07, Brian wrote:
>> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
>> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>
> The examples use CIDR notation instead, eg "address 192.168.1.1/24".
>
> The netmask line is an alternative to that. You need to tell it
> _somehow_ how big the subnet is.

Thankyou, it seems, people have forgotten for what it is.

Because douing routing over several networks is to much work, I decide
to have all IP Sensors and cameras in a network with 512 IP adresses.

> Richard

Have a nice day

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Hi,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Brian in die Tasten:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
>> >
>> > 1. auto enp0s25
>> >  iface enp0s25 inet
>> > static address 192.168.0.202
>> > netmask 255.255.255.0
>> > gateway 192.168.0.1
>> > network 192.168.0.0
>> >
>> > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
>> > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>> >
>> You should go and read that man page again.
>
> I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".
>
> Some reading for you:
>
> https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ifupdown/interfaces.5.en.html

...and if you have a network with 512 IP adresses?
Section "The static Method" say definitively that I can use "netmask"
because auto configuration created to many problems in the past.

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Good morning,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Gene Heskett in die Tasten:
> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
>> 1. auto enp0s25
>>  iface enp0s25 inet
>> static address 192.168.0.202
>> netmask 255.255.255.0
>> gateway 192.168.0.1
>> network 192.168.0.0
>>
>> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
>> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>>
> You should go and read that man page again.

Who do you mean?

I have als a network with

auto eth2
iface eth2 inet static
address 192.168.4.12
netmask 255.255.127.0
gateway 192.168.4.1
network 192.168.4.0

So, it is not so good idea to leafe it out

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Good morning,

Am 2018-02-07 hackte Brian in die Tasten:
> Would you post the URL(s) for the instructions you refer to.

It is in the official install tutorial (Debian website) and they also
suggested some free Windows tools to do this.

I downloaded "rufus-2.18p.exe" to write the Iso to the USB Stick because
Windows 7 refused to let me execute "win32diskimager"

> Which ISOs have you downloaded?

amd64

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 01:26:05AM +, Brian wrote:

On Wed 07 Feb 2018 at 13:42:04 +1300, Richard Hector wrote:

The examples use CIDR notation instead, eg "address 192.168.1.1/24".

The netmask line is an alternative to that. You need to tell it
_somehow_ how big the subnet is.


As a changelog from May 2012 says:

 * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
   one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
   specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.


Richard is correct here. The changelog is saying that the IF_NETMASK 
environment variable will reflect the defaults even if they aren't 
specified in the configuration (this differs from the documentation 
which otherwise states that the environment will reflect the 
configuration file contents). It is *not* saying that ifupdown will 
somehow guess what the correct netmask is. As I said earlier, it 
defaults to setting the mask based on the address class, as defined in 
RFC 791 back in 1981. So, for example, a 10. IP will use a /8 netmask, a 
172. address will use a /16 netmask, etc. If you use a 192. address you 
might get lucky because those IPs were in the class C space and the 
netmask will default to /24--which is a common configuration for 
consumer network devices. But IP classes are obsolete and have been 
since the early 90s--so it's best not to rely on them being correct when 
setting up your network.


Mike Stone

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Richard Hector]

On 07/02/18 14:29, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 20:23:13 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 01:16:28AM +, Brian wrote:
>>> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 19:53:16 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
>>>
 On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:00:12PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. auto enp0s25
>>>  iface enp0s25 inet
>>> static address 192.168.0.202
>>> netmask 255.255.255.0
>>> gateway 192.168.0.1
>>> network 192.168.0.0
>>>
>>> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
>>> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>>>
>> You should go and read that man page again.
>
> I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".

 If you don't specify a netmask it will default to something that was 
 correct
 in the 80s and is probably wrong on your network. The "netmask line" isn't
 required, but if you don't have a netmask line you should specify the
 netmask in the address line (using "ip/netmask" syntax).
>>>
>>> Indeed. But a netmask line (while not necessary) doesn't do any harm.
>>
>> More than that: either a separate netmask entry or a netmask specified as
>> part of the address are almost certainly required for proper operation. It's
>> not technically required, but it is practically required.
> 
> The changelog says:
> 
>   * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
> one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
> specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.
> 
> What is the significance of "...so even if a user haven't supplied ..."?

Calculate how? Using ancient classful addressing rules? Sounds like that
change is a bug, to me. Lack of a mask or prefix length should trigger
an error.

Richard



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 20:23:13 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 01:16:28AM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 19:53:16 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:00:12PM +, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. auto enp0s25
> > > > > >  iface enp0s25 inet
> > > > > > static address 192.168.0.202
> > > > > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > > > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > > > > network 192.168.0.0
> > > > > >
> > > > > > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > > > > > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > You should go and read that man page again.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".
> > > 
> > > If you don't specify a netmask it will default to something that was 
> > > correct
> > > in the 80s and is probably wrong on your network. The "netmask line" isn't
> > > required, but if you don't have a netmask line you should specify the
> > > netmask in the address line (using "ip/netmask" syntax).
> > 
> > Indeed. But a netmask line (while not necessary) doesn't do any harm.
> 
> More than that: either a separate netmask entry or a netmask specified as
> part of the address are almost certainly required for proper operation. It's
> not technically required, but it is practically required.

The changelog says:

  * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.

What is the significance of "...so even if a user haven't supplied ..."?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Wed 07 Feb 2018 at 13:42:04 +1300, Richard Hector wrote:

> On 07/02/18 08:07, Brian wrote:
> > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> 
> The examples use CIDR notation instead, eg "address 192.168.1.1/24".
> 
> The netmask line is an alternative to that. You need to tell it
> _somehow_ how big the subnet is.

As a changelog from May 2012 says:

  * Calculate netmask internally, so even if a user haven't supplied
one or have used CIDR notation, hook scripts will have it properly
specified in IF_NETMASK environment variable.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Feb 07, 2018 at 01:16:28AM +, Brian wrote:

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 19:53:16 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:


On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:00:12PM +, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > >
> > > 1. auto enp0s25
> > >  iface enp0s25 inet
> > > static address 192.168.0.202
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > network 192.168.0.0
> > >
> > > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> > >
> > You should go and read that man page again.
>
> I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".

If you don't specify a netmask it will default to something that was correct
in the 80s and is probably wrong on your network. The "netmask line" isn't
required, but if you don't have a netmask line you should specify the
netmask in the address line (using "ip/netmask" syntax).


Indeed. But a netmask line (while not necessary) doesn't do any harm.


More than that: either a separate netmask entry or a netmask specified 
as part of the address are almost certainly required for proper 
operation. It's not technically required, but it is practically 
required.


Mike Stone

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 19:53:16 -0500, Michael Stone wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:00:12PM +, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 1. auto enp0s25
> > > >  iface enp0s25 inet
> > > > static address 192.168.0.202
> > > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > > network 192.168.0.0
> > > >
> > > > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > > > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> > > >
> > > You should go and read that man page again.
> > 
> > I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".
> 
> If you don't specify a netmask it will default to something that was correct
> in the 80s and is probably wrong on your network. The "netmask line" isn't
> required, but if you don't have a netmask line you should specify the
> netmask in the address line (using "ip/netmask" syntax).

Indeed. But a netmask line (while not necessary) doesn't do any harm.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Richard Hector]

On 07/02/18 04:54, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Sorry, I ment dbus-x11

"apt-rdepends blueman" (you might want to install apt-rdepends) doesn't
list dbus-x11 anywhere. If blueman really needs it, then either it or
one of its other dependencies is failing to declare it, which would be a
bug.

Richard



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michael Stone]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:00:12PM +, Brian wrote:

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
>
> 1. auto enp0s25
>  iface enp0s25 inet
> static address 192.168.0.202
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.0.1
> network 192.168.0.0
>
> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>
You should go and read that man page again.


I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".


If you don't specify a netmask it will default to something that was 
correct in the 80s and is probably wrong on your network. The "netmask 
line" isn't required, but if you don't have a netmask line you should 
specify the netmask in the address line (using "ip/netmask" syntax).


Mike Stone

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Richard Hector]

On 07/02/18 08:07, Brian wrote:
> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.

The examples use CIDR notation instead, eg "address 192.168.1.1/24".

The netmask line is an alternative to that. You need to tell it
_somehow_ how big the subnet is.

Richard



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 06 February 2018 18:00:12 Brian wrote:

> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > > 1. auto enp0s25
> > >  iface enp0s25
> > > inet static address 192.168.0.202
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > network 192.168.0.0
> > >
> > > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them.
> > > Note there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these
> > > parameters.
> >
> > You should go and read that man page again.
>
> I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not
> required".
>
For dynamic, but for static, read on down the page some more.

> Some reading for you:
>
> https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ifupdown/interfaces.5.en.html

I am going by the man pages installed by stretch on a rock64. And looking 
at it just now as its building an rt-kernel, I see when its done, I need 
to do a make clean and see just why its building all the nouveau stuffs.  
It should only be building for dual mali cores. menuconfig isn't the 
best tool, it hides too much stuff.  Sigh...


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:11:03 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:06:36PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> > >
> > You should go and read that man page again.
> 
> In stretch, Brian is correct.

The OP has installed stretch. What other distribution would I be talking
about?
 
> In jessie and wheezy, Gene is correct.

Only with netmask. I suppose being half-misleading is better than being
totally misleading.

> Both of them seriously needs to learn how to delete lines of text.

Is that the best that can be done in response? A mini lecture on
trimming? Talk about shifting the goalposts; they are on their way to
becoming invisible!

At least two people are in total agreement that

 >  No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but not
 >  both.

Is this the accepted wisdom for now? auto and allow-hotplug cannot be
used at the same time? What happens if they are?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 17:06:36 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> >
> > 1. auto enp0s25   
> >  iface enp0s25 inet
> > static address 192.168.0.202
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > network 192.168.0.0
> >
> > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> >
> You should go and read that man page again.

I didn't have to but I did. A line beginning "netmask" is not required".

Some reading for you:

https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/ifupdown/interfaces.5.en.html

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:06:36PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:
> > netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> > there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
> >
> You should go and read that man page again.

In stretch, Brian is correct.

In jessie and wheezy, Gene is correct.

Both of them seriously needs to learn how to delete lines of text.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 06 February 2018 14:07:55 Brian wrote:

> On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 09:01:21 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 06:58:50AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > > > auto enp0s25
> > > > iface enp0s25 inet static
> > > > address 192.168.0.202
> > > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > > network 192.168.0.0
> > > >
> > > > allow-hotplug enp0s25
> > >
> > >   ^
> > > Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in
> > > every example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its
> > > static, not dhcpd.
> >
> > No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but
> > not both.
>
> On the basis that whatever is not forbidden is allowed, I cannot see
> what the basis for this statement is from a reading of interfaces(5).
>
> (And what is wrong with having either auto or allow-hotplug below the
> iface line?)
>
> > If the interface is *important*, and you want services to wait for
> > it before starting, then you should use "auto".
>
> It is (in systemd terms) obliged to be run before network.target is
> reached.
>
> > If you use "allow-hotplug", this tells Debian that the interface is
> > optional, and services should feel free to start up before the
> > interface is ready.  This breaks ALL KINDS of shit on a traditional
> > workstation that participates in a network.  It's even worse on a
> > server.
>
> If you could use both - best of both worlds.
>
> > For some reason, Debian defaults to "allow-hotplug", perhaps because
> > they think most people are installing on laptops.
>
> I wonder whether it does the same as auto at boot time? Testing time?
>
> Two other points arising from other posts (reducing the number of
> moving parts should please someone):
>
> 1. auto enp0s25   
>  iface enp0s25 inet
> static address 192.168.0.202
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.0.1
> network 192.168.0.0
>
> netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
> there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.
>
You should go and read that man page again.

> 2. auto lo
>iface lo inet loopback
>
> can be removed. ifupdown sorts this out all by itself. The stanza is
> put in by the installer because it has always done it; bug #836016.
>
> No example for loopback in interfaces(5) either.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Bernd Gruber]

Hello Michell,
To try out, I just set up a new debian stretch on an VM (qemu/kvm):
I used the netinstall CD, because I didn't want to download full DVDs.

I had no problem configuring the network manually with ip-address and 
everything (only I didn't know exactly the addresses that are used by qemu, 
so in the end I had no connection and used the automatic setup, but the 
installer let me put in the values)
First I Installed only the base system.
Then installed the packages you mentioned (with APT::Install-Rcommends no; 
as thomas suggested).
I had everything done automatically. No problem.
The used disk-space is 1,4 GiB !

I know:
Grub instead of LILO and systemd instead of sys-v, if you relly do need 
these, I have no experience. You might try devuan.

Maybe there's a problem with your install medium or the repo on it.
Some time ago I had a directory as a local repository (only for self-built 
packages) to be used by apt, so I think this might ba a solution for your 
Problem with the usb-stick. I don't remeber exactly ho to configure this, 
but it wasn' too difficult (otherwise I wouldn' have done it).

Hope this can help you somehow.

Bernd

P.S: We have been to Estonia two years ago and liked it very much! Our 
daughter was studying in Tartu. And it was summer.



Michelle Konzack wrote:
> 
> The dependendies are only satisfait if you install a full DE like Gnome,
> KDE or  other defaults by Debian.
> 
> If you install the bare minimum like
> 
> Debian base
> xorg
> wdm
> fvwmg
fvwm
> thumb
gthumb 
> blueman
> alsa
no package alsa, took alsa-tools
> mc
> 
> you have a non-working system!
> 
>>> 11 Packages are now working and I try to figure out, WHICH  depends  are
>>> missing to write the appropriated Bug Reports.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 15:53:24 +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:

> I was following the instructions from the Debian Website and downloaded
> a Windows tool, which extract the content of an ISO image and copy it
> bootable on the USB Stick.
> 
> The second DVD was copied into a subfolder DVD2/
> 
> I could boot from USB, installed the base and rebooted.
> And now I could not more access the USB stick even if it was registered
> in /etc/apt/sources.list because apt want to mount a DVD Rom and not an
> USB Stick.
> 
> So, something is wrong in the install instructions

Would you post the URL(s) for the instructions you refer to.

Which ISOs have you downloaded?

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Brian]

On Tue 06 Feb 2018 at 09:01:21 -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 06:58:50AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > > auto enp0s25 
> > > iface enp0s25 inet static
> > > address 192.168.0.202
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > network 192.168.0.0
> > >
> > > allow-hotplug enp0s25
> >   ^
> > Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in every 
> > example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its static, not 
> > dhcpd.
> 
> No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but not
> both.

On the basis that whatever is not forbidden is allowed, I cannot see
what the basis for this statement is from a reading of interfaces(5).

(And what is wrong with having either auto or allow-hotplug below the
iface line?)

> If the interface is *important*, and you want services to wait for it
> before starting, then you should use "auto".

It is (in systemd terms) obliged to be run before network.target is
reached.
 
> If you use "allow-hotplug", this tells Debian that the interface is
> optional, and services should feel free to start up before the
> interface is ready.  This breaks ALL KINDS of shit on a traditional
> workstation that participates in a network.  It's even worse on a
> server.

If you could use both - best of both worlds.

> For some reason, Debian defaults to "allow-hotplug", perhaps because
> they think most people are installing on laptops.

I wonder whether it does the same as auto at boot time? Testing time?

Two other points arising from other posts (reducing the number of moving
parts should please someone):

1. auto enp0s25 
iface enp0s25 inet static
address 192.168.0.202
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
network 192.168.0.0

netmask and network are not needed. ifupdown will compute them. Note
there are no examples in interfaces(5) which use these parameters.

2. auto lo
   iface lo inet loopback

can be removed. ifupdown sorts this out all by itself. The stanza is put
in by the installer because it has always done it; bug #836016.

No example for loopback in interfaces(5) either.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2018-02-06 hackte to...@tuxteam.de in die Tasten:
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:54:08PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Sorry, I ment dbus-x11

> Ah, ok. No, it's not installed on my machine (I managed to avoid
> dbus up to now). But since you are doing bluetooth stuff, you are
> going to need dbus. And dbus-x11 is just the infrastructure to
> get the dbus user session started at the X11 login (other DEs
> like Gnome and KDE have other methods). So yes, dbus-x11 does
> make sense for you.

;-)

> I *guess* you might get away without dbus-x11, but then you'd
> have to start your dbus user session yourself (and somehow pass
> the relevant tidbits to all relevant environments, so the
> applications can "find" the dbus session). But I'm far from an
> expert here, since I've been avoiding that for years ;-)

Hmmm, if I find the time, I will look into it.  Sounds interesting

>> Recommends are not Depends and blueman depends on dbus-x11
>
> Not directly, as far as I can see... perhaps indirectly. Perhaps
> "aptitude why" sheds some light on that.

>> > Shudder :-)
>>
>> Such thing happen if someone is sitting the whole day in front of a
>> screen...  Hihihi!  Look for some puppies and o walking twice a day!
>
> I'm just an exported flowerpot from much farther south, and then,
> age brings the old cat in me which only
>
>> 
>>
>> They where born on 2017-11-20 and need very much attention!
>
> Nice. The "heat wave of +5°C" sounds most attractive :-)

In some days will will have again this heatwave... around 0-3°C!
The whole snow will melt and transform again anything into mud!

>> append="net.ifnames=0"
>>
>> However, I can not find in /proc or /sys the Kernel commandline.
>> In the older kernels the file was named "comandline" but it is
>> not more there.
>
> Oh, yes, it should be there: /proc/cmdline

Ah, that it was, and yes, the "append" stuff is not shown, because
I have setuop in Lilo three startup methods (runlevel 2, 3 and 4)
but it is not shown in /proc/cmdline.

I have only

BOOT_IMAGE=Home ro root=802

So, there is something wrong with "append"

> Yes, you might want to fix that first before decorating your
> kernel command line further.
>
>> In case of problems with runlevel 2 I want to boot directly into
>> another one and also I have a runlevel which launch a very special
>> environment, which can not be done trough telinit and I do not want
>> to do this as root.
>
> I see.

SELinux disallow it

>> I have still my CDs from Hamm, and on a DVD I have Buzz Rex and Bo.
>> Long time ago!
>
> :)
>
>> True, but currently anything is working fine.
>> Hmmm, what is the lifetime of 3Com 100base-TX Network adapters?
>
> No idea. Perhaps hundred years?

I wonder since many years why they do not break.

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 05:54:08PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
> > On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 03:53:24PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> >> Do you have glib-x11 installed on your system?
> >
> > Hm. I don't find any library/package which has a similar name. I guess
> > you mean libglib, but I might guess wrong.
> 
> Sorry, I ment dbus-x11

[...]

Ah, ok. No, it's not installed on my machine (I managed to avoid
dbus up to now). But since you are doing bluetooth stuff, you are
going to need dbus. And dbus-x11 is just the infrastructure to
get the dbus user session started at the X11 login (other DEs
like Gnome and KDE have other methods). So yes, dbus-x11 does
make sense for you.

> The question is only, which package must pull in dbus-x11?

I don't see the explicit dependency at the moment, but you
can ask with

  aptitude why dbus-x11

> I assume blueman, because bluez can be also used without blueman.

I don't think so: all of bluez is deeply dependent on dbus.

> >> But glib-x11 has nothing to du with Recommends, because it is essential
> >> for a working blueman..
> >
> > Hm. Sorry. I can't find that package.
> 
> loock for dbus-x11

I *guess* you might get away without dbus-x11, but then you'd
have to start your dbus user session yourself (and somehow pass
the relevant tidbits to all relevant environments, so the
applications can "find" the dbus session). But I'm far from an
expert here, since I've been avoiding that for years ;-)

> 
> >> > [fine tuning of your package system]
> >>
> >> "fine tuning" is good, if you even don't know, what is missing!
> >
> > Seems you had already got rid of Recommends...
> 
> Recommends are not Depends and blueman depends on dbus-x11

Not directly, as far as I can see... perhaps indirectly. Perhaps
"aptitude why" sheds some light on that.

[...]

> > Shudder :-)
> 
> Such thing happen if someone is sitting the whole day in front of a
> screen...  Hihihi!  Look for some puppies and o walking twice a day!

I'm just an exported flowerpot from much farther south, and then,
age brings the old cat in me which only

> 
> 
> They where born on 2017-11-20 and need very much attention!

Nice. The "heat wave of +5°C" sounds most attractive :-)


> 
> > I see. I haven't much experience there: I'll have to look that up.
> > Perhaps someone with more experience can chime in here.
> 
> >> He sayed unknown device
> >
> > Yes. It seems that for some reason, the init script is trying
> > to bring up the device under its old name. So you might try to
> > boot once appending " net.ifnames=0" to your kernel command
> > line (I forgot how that is done with LILO, but I guess you know).
> 
> append="net.ifnames=0"
> 
> However, I can not find in /proc or /sys the Kernel commandline.
> In the older kernels the file was named "comandline" but it is
> not more there.

Oh, yes, it should be there: /proc/cmdline

> I was séarching for it, because I have to boot from LILO prompt in a
> non-default runlevel by using
> 
> append="3"
> 
> but it does not boot into runlevel 3.  It is always the default 2.
> 
> I do not know, where the error is.

Yes, you might want to fix that first before decorating your
kernel command line further.

> In case of problems with runlevel 2 I want to boot directly into
> another one and also I have a runlevel which launch a very special
> environment, which can not be done trough telinit and I do not want
> to do this as root.

I see.

[...]

> I have still my CDs from Hamm, and on a DVD I have Buzz Rex and Bo.
> Long time ago!

:)

> True, but currently anything is working fine.
> Hmmm, what is the lifetime of 3Com 100base-TX Network adapters?

No idea. Perhaps hundred years?

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 03:53:24PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Do you have glib-x11 installed on your system?
>
> Hm. I don't find any library/package which has a similar name. I guess
> you mean libglib, but I might guess wrong.

Sorry, I ment dbus-x11

>   Depends: libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>=
> 2.31.8),
> libpython3.5 (>= 3.5.0~b1), dconf-gsettings-backend |
> gsettings-backend,
> python3 (<< 3.6), python3 (>= 3.5~), dbus, bluez (>= 4.61),
> obexd-client
> (>= 0.47) | bluez-obexd, obexd-server (>= 0.47) | bluez-obexd,
> python3-dbus, python3-gi, notification-daemon, librsvg2-common,
> gnome-icon-theme, libpulse-mainloop-glib0, gir1.2-gtk-3.0,
> gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0, gir1.2-glib-2.0, gir1.2-pango-1.0,
> gir1.2-notify-0.7, python3-cairo, python3-gi-cairo,
> gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1
>   Recommends: policykit-1

> No glib-x11 around, either...

dbus-x11 too

The question is only, which package must pull in dbus-x11?

I assume blueman, because bluez can be also used without blueman.

>> But glib-x11 has nothing to du with Recommends, because it is essential
>> for a working blueman..
>
> Hm. Sorry. I can't find that package.

loock for dbus-x11

>> > [fine tuning of your package system]
>>
>> "fine tuning" is good, if you even don't know, what is missing!
>
> Seems you had already got rid of Recommends...

Recommends are not Depends and blueman depends on dbus-x11

> Yes, but what/where is glib-x11? No package with this name, no package
> containing a file named like this (all on Debian Stretch, aka 9, aka
> stable). What am I missing?

Mistake be me:  dbus-x11


>> >> It is a huge work, especially when I currently work in my 5,6ha
>> forest
>> >> on my BioFarm in Estonia (-10°C and 30cm snow).
>> >
>> > That sounds like some amount of fun (I always complaing about Berlin
>> being
>> > too cold :-/
>>
>> :-D
>>
>> Normally our winter is colder up to -30°C (not very often, but it
>> happen)
>
> Shudder :-)

Such thing happen if someone is sitting the whole day in front of a
screen...  Hihihi!  Look for some puppies and o walking twice a day!



They where born on 2017-11-20 and need very much attention!

> I see. I haven't much experience there: I'll have to look that up.
> Perhaps someone with more experience can chime in here.

>> He sayed unknown device
>
> Yes. It seems that for some reason, the init script is trying
> to bring up the device under its old name. So you might try to
> boot once appending " net.ifnames=0" to your kernel command
> line (I forgot how that is done with LILO, but I guess you know).

append="net.ifnames=0"

However, I can not find in /proc or /sys the Kernel commandline.
In the older kernels the file was named "comandline" but it is
not more there.

I was séarching for it, because I have to boot from LILO prompt in a
non-default runlevel by using

append="3"

but it does not boot into runlevel 3.  It is always the default 2.

I do not know, where the error is.

In case of problems with runlevel 2 I want to boot directly into
another one and also I have a runlevel which launch a very special
environment, which can not be done trough telinit and I do not want
to do this as root.

> To be fair, hardware beneath this has changed *a lot*, although we
> perceive those boxes as just "PCs" from the outside. And nowadays
> network interfaces, mass storage, etc. "come and go" even on low
> end hardware. So I do understand how that has come. But OTOH, learning
> and hacking has become more difficult.

True

>> Seufz, I liked the time of Debian Slink 2.1 in 1999!
>> Anything was s easy!
>
> :-)

I have still my CDs from Hamm, and on a DVD I have Buzz Rex and Bo.
Long time ago!

>> I nailed in the past the ethN on the HWAddress.
>
> This is a good idea, but it has its downsides too: Whenever you
> exchange the network card (or move the disk to another "identical"
> box), things stop working. Sometimes it does what you want,
> sometimes it doesn't :-)

True, but currently anything is working fine.
Hmmm, what is the lifetime of 3Com 100base-TX Network adapters?

Long time ago, they where the best on the market and ALL of my
computers (which do not have Ethernet on board) have them...

At least since 18 years

> Cheers
> - -- tomás

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: Greg Wooledge
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 06:58:50AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> > allow-hotplug enp0s25
>>   ^
>> Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in every
>> example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its static, not
>> dhcpd.
>
> No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but not
> both.

I have already removed it.

> If the interface is *important*, and you want services to wait for it
> before starting, then you should use "auto".

> If you use "allow-hotplug", this tells Debian that the interface is
> optional, and services should feel free to start up before the
> interface is ready.  This breaks ALL KINDS of shit on a traditional
> workstation that participates in a network.  It's even worse on a
> server.

Grmpf!

> For some reason, Debian defaults to "allow-hotplug", perhaps because
> they think most people are installing on laptops.

Welcome to Windian.

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 09:01:21AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 06:58:50AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > > auto enp0s25 
> > > iface enp0s25 inet static
> > > address 192.168.0.202
> > > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > > network 192.168.0.0
> > >
> > > allow-hotplug enp0s25
> >   ^
> > Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in every 
> > example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its static, not 
> > dhcpd.
> 
> No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but not
> both.
> 
> If the interface is *important*, and you want services to wait for it
> before starting, then you should use "auto".

Yes, totally agreed: I think you want auto and not allow-hotplug.
But then there's still that /etc/init.d/networking throwing an error
as if it were starting the "wrong" interface, while it should be
doing the moral equivalent of "ifup -a". Hmmm.

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 09:18:20AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:03:15PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > If you install the bare minimum like
> > 
> > Debian base
> > xorg
> > wdm
> > fvwmg
> > thumb
> > blueman
> > alsa
> > mc
> > 
> > you have a non-working system!
> 
> Um, what?  No.  That's not correct.
> 
> > yes, if you know, WHICH package you need, it can be installed manually
> > which is already confirmed by 3 Package  maintainers.
> 
> ... OK.  So, you install the packages you want.  Just like I do.
> No problem.  I even use fvwm.  Never heard of fvwmg though.

I think the 'g' belongs one line further (transpose 'g' and '\n').

> You seem to be doing a lot of weird, low-level, retro-style modifications
> to Debian.  Replacing systemd with sysvinit.  Replacing GRUB with LILO.
> Why?  What's the point of this?  To see how many different ways you can
> break it?

Ohmigod, the horrors =:-o

;-)

Cheers
- -- t
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 03:53:24PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
> > On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:03:15PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> >> I do not know currently, except that blueman depends on  glib-x11  which
> >> is confirmed by the maintainer.  It seems gthumb has the same dependency
> >> because sinde blueman is working gthumb too.
> >
> > I can't parse very well your last sentence.
> 
> Do you have glib-x11 installed on your system?

Hm. I don't find any library/package which has a similar name. I guess
you mean libglib, but I might guess wrong.

For reference, here's what apt show has to say about blueman on my
box:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ apt show blueman
  Package: blueman
  Version: 2.0.4-1
  Priority: optional
  Section: x11
  Maintainer: Christopher Schramm 
  Installed-Size: 4959 kB
  Depends: libbluetooth3 (>= 4.91), libc6 (>= 2.4), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.31.8),
libpython3.5 (>= 3.5.0~b1), dconf-gsettings-backend | gsettings-backend,
python3 (<< 3.6), python3 (>= 3.5~), dbus, bluez (>= 4.61), obexd-client
(>= 0.47) | bluez-obexd, obexd-server (>= 0.47) | bluez-obexd,
python3-dbus, python3-gi, notification-daemon, librsvg2-common,
gnome-icon-theme, libpulse-mainloop-glib0, gir1.2-gtk-3.0,
gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0, gir1.2-glib-2.0, gir1.2-pango-1.0,
gir1.2-notify-0.7, python3-cairo, python3-gi-cairo,
gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1
  Recommends: policykit-1
  Homepage: https://github.com/blueman-project/blueman
  Tag: role::program, uitoolkit::gtk
  Download-Size: 1703 kB
  APT-Sources: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian stretch/main amd64 Packages
  Description: Graphical bluetooth manager
   Blueman is a GTK+ bluetooth management utility for GNOME using bluez D-Bus

No glib-x11 around, either...

> > Anyway, since I have a similarly minimalistic system [...]

> > So it does try to install quite a bit, but far from the whole Gnome,
> 
> Looks quit the same, if I look in the install log

Ah, OK.

> > Do you have somewhere in your apt configuration an "Install-Recommends
> > no"?
> >
> > I have, for example in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/95no-recommends:
> >
> >   APT::Install-Recommends no;
> 
> If I would say yes, it would install several 100 MByte more, which I
> absolutely not want.  I have nearly all packages installed, which I also
> had under Wheeze but Stretch is more then twice as bib as Wheeze.
> 
> The partition is 10 GByte big and I have only 1100 MByte left over.

OK, I see. Sorry if I sometimes ask things which may be obvious to
you.

[...]

> But glib-x11 has nothing to du with Recommends, because it is essential
> for a working blueman..

Hm. Sorry. I can't find that package.

> > [fine tuning of your package system]
> 
> "fine tuning" is good, if you even don't know, what is missing!

Seems you had already got rid of Recommends...

> > See above -- you need some tools to understand *why* the package system
> > "wants" to do things. One very nice one is the -s option to apt (or
> > apt-get),
> 
> apt does not tell me (Recommends/Suggests) that I need glib-x11 to get
> something working, because even if you have Recommends/Suggests set to
> no, apt-get show always what can be also installed together.

Yes, but what/where is glib-x11? No package with this name, no package
containing a file named like this (all on Debian Stretch, aka 9, aka
stable). What am I missing?

[...]

> I have just extracted my "base install" into a chroot and tried to
> install blueman but it does not suggest or recommend essential the
> essential package to get blueman working.
> 
> This has absolutely nothing to do with Recommends/Suggests.

Yes agreed, but... where is glib-x11? Is blueman complaining? in which
way?

[...]

> >> It is a huge work, especially when I currently work in my 5,6ha forest
> >> on my BioFarm in Estonia (-10°C and 30cm snow).
> >
> > That sounds like some amount of fun (I always complaing about Berlin being
> > too cold :-/
> 
> :-D
> 
> Normally our winter is colder up to -30°C (not very often, but it happen)

Shudder :-)

> > How did you do that exactly? How do you get two DVDs ont one stick?
> 
> I was following the instructions from the Debian Website and downloaded
> a Windows tool, which extract the content of an ISO image and copy it
> bootable on the USB Stick.
> 
> The second DVD was copied into a subfolder DVD2/
> 
> I could boot from USB, installed the base and rebooted.
> And now I could not more access the USB stick even if it was registered
> in /etc/apt/sources.list because apt want to mount a DVD Rom and not an
> USB Stick.
> 
> So, something is wrong in the install instructions
> 
> > I see... it should be possible to refer APT to a file system instead
> > of a DVD/CDROM.
> 
> But it seems not to work under Stretch, because in the past I have
> created from /var/cache/apt/archives a local mirror for other
> installations.

I see. I 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:03:15PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> If you install the bare minimum like
> 
> Debian base
> xorg
> wdm
> fvwmg
> thumb
> blueman
> alsa
> mc
> 
> you have a non-working system!

Um, what?  No.  That's not correct.

> yes, if you know, WHICH package you need, it can be installed manually
> which is already confirmed by 3 Package  maintainers.

... OK.  So, you install the packages you want.  Just like I do.
No problem.  I even use fvwm.  Never heard of fvwmg though.

> They  assumed,
> that Debian User install always  a  complete  system,  but  where  not
> thinking on users which do not need a full DE.

Baloney.  I install without a DE all the time.  I've got two stretch
systems (one at work, one at home) that I installed without a DE.  I'm
writing this email on one of them.

> Hence, some packages missing dependencies.

Nonsense.  There is literally NO "apt-get install" command you can issue
that will cause your system to have "missing dependencies".  If apt can't
find all the dependencies for your requested packages, it does nothing.

You've broken something some OTHER way.  Perhaps by "removing systemd"?

It would help a whole lot if you told us HOW you "removed systemd" and
what you replaced it with.  Exactly how.  Step by step.  Every single
command you issued, in order.

Or, try this experiment: do a base install and LEAVE SYSTEMD ALONE.
Then install the packages you want (fvwm, etc.).

Be sure to change "allow-hotplug" to "auto" in /e/n/i and reboot.

Does it work?  Does your network interface consistently come up
before your network-dependent services?

Now that you have a working Debian system with systemd and your desired
packages, you can either leave it alone, or attempt to replace systemd
with your desired init system.  If this step causes the breakage that
you reported earlier, THEN we know that the problem comes from whatever
crazy steps you are performing to replace your init system.  And we can
move on from there.

> I will install a second stretch in a VM and install only  the  minimum
> and then Package by Package to  figure  out,  which  dependencies  are
> missing.

OK.  Sounds like a reasonable approach.  Be sure to keep a log of all
your steps.  No "writing it down".  Use script(1) or something.

> Yes, because Debian Stretch does not more boot and I can not see the
> Lilo command prompt

You should be using GRUB, not LILO.

You seem to be doing a lot of weird, low-level, retro-style modifications
to Debian.  Replacing systemd with sysvinit.  Replacing GRUB with LILO.
Why?  What's the point of this?  To see how many different ways you can
break it?

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 06:58:50AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > auto enp0s25 
> > iface enp0s25 inet static
> > address 192.168.0.202
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > network 192.168.0.0
> >
> > allow-hotplug enp0s25
>   ^
> Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in every 
> example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its static, not 
> dhcpd.

No.  You either want "auto enp0s25" or "allow-hotplug enp0s25" but not
both.

If the interface is *important*, and you want services to wait for it
before starting, then you should use "auto".

If you use "allow-hotplug", this tells Debian that the interface is
optional, and services should feel free to start up before the
interface is ready.  This breaks ALL KINDS of shit on a traditional
workstation that participates in a network.  It's even worse on a
server.

For some reason, Debian defaults to "allow-hotplug", perhaps because
they think most people are installing on laptops.

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
> On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:03:15PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> I do not know currently, except that blueman depends on  glib-x11  which
>> is confirmed by the maintainer.  It seems gthumb has the same dependency
>> because sinde blueman is working gthumb too.
>
> I can't parse very well your last sentence.

Do you have glib-x11 installed on your system?

> Anyway, since I have a similarly minimalistic system as you have (I think
> I'm a tad worse: I tend to avoid DBUS when I can. I think it's ugly), I
> tried a simulated install of blueman:



> So it does try to install quite a bit, but far from the whole Gnome,

Looks quit the same, if I look in the install log

> Do you have somewhere in your apt configuration an "Install-Recommends
> no"?
>
> I have, for example in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/95no-recommends:
>
>   APT::Install-Recommends no;

If I would say yes, it would install several 100 MByte more, which I
absolutely not want.  I have nearly all packages installed, which I also
had under Wheeze but Stretch is more then twice as bib as Wheeze.

The partition is 10 GByte big and I have only 1100 MByte left over.

Looks like I have installed Windows 10 light!

> This is the only way to preserve sanity if you do care about a
> minimalistic install, as you seem to do (the default is made for
> people who want a "kinda-works-out-of-the-box" thing, which is
> fine, but one should be aware of that).

But glib-x11 has nothing to du with Recommends, because it is essential
for a working blueman..

> See above. For such a system (I've myself Fvwm too, heh) some fine
> tuning of your package system seems necessary.

"fine tuning" is good, if you even don't know, what is missing!

> See above -- you need some tools to understand *why* the package system
> "wants" to do things. One very nice one is the -s option to apt (or
> apt-get),

apt does not tell me (Recommends/Suggests) that I need glib-x11 to get
something working, because even if you have Recommends/Suggests set to
no, apt-get show always what can be also installed together.

> which means "simulate": there you can see what is going
> to be installed. Another is apt show"  which will tell
> you what's in the package, which others it depends on (and which other
> are "recommended" or "suggested", which may also be installed
> automatically depending on your packager config: my hunch is that
> this is what's happening to you).

I have just extracted my "base install" into a chroot and tried to
install blueman but it does not suggest or recommend essential the
essential package to get blueman working.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Recommends/Suggests.

>> I will install a second stretch in a VM and install only  the  minimum
>> and then Package by Package to  figure  out,  which  dependencies  are
>> missing.
>>
>> It is a huge work, especially when I currently work in my 5,6ha forest
>> on my BioFarm in Estonia (-10°C and 30cm snow).
>
> That sounds like some amount of fun (I always complaing about Berlin being
> too cold :-/

:-D

Normally our winter is colder up to -30°C (not very often, but it happen)

> How did you do that exactly? How do you get two DVDs ont one stick?

I was following the instructions from the Debian Website and downloaded
a Windows tool, which extract the content of an ISO image and copy it
bootable on the USB Stick.

The second DVD was copied into a subfolder DVD2/

I could boot from USB, installed the base and rebooted.
And now I could not more access the USB stick even if it was registered
in /etc/apt/sources.list because apt want to mount a DVD Rom and not an
USB Stick.

So, something is wrong in the install instructions

> I see... it should be possible to refer APT to a file system instead
> of a DVD/CDROM.

But it seems not to work under Stretch, because in the past I have
created from /var/cache/apt/archives a local mirror for other
installations.

> Heh. You can have that back (I personally don't like those new
> network names -- see below[1]).
>
>> I get an error "Device unknown"
>>
>> ifup enp0s25
>
> So "ifup -a" leads to "Device unknown", did I understand you there?

"ifup eth0" gaved it.

> That would at least explain why the init script isn't working. So
> you might want to try what john doe proposed: stop your network (yes
> it won't work) with the init script:
>
>   sudo /etc/init.d/networking stop
>
> ...and then start it again:
>
>   sudo /etc/init.d/networking start
>
> Watch carefully for error messages.

He sayed unknown device

if I vet the prompt and log into as root and then type

   ifup enp0s25

it works.

>> > How should we know? Is the broken display important?
>>
>> Yes, because Debian Stretch does not more boot and I can not see the
>> Lilo command prompt
>
> Hm. This is, of course, nasty.

Unfortunately I have not my old P4 here, because the HDD is booting in
it properly.  But the compay HDD do not boot in the T400

> Uh... are 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 06 February 2018 05:42:53 Michelle Konzack wrote:

> #  Do not Cc: me, I am on THE LIST and I do not need 
> ## #  messages twice which make it very hard to
> answer.  ##
>
>
> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
>
> > This is all? No "lo" stanza? Hm.
>
> it is:
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
>
> > In that case, it looks more or less correct. Issuing "ifup -a"
> > should bring up your enp0s25 interface. Does it?
>
> Yes, it is up.
>
> The problem since Jessie is, that my PostgreSQL instances (I have 4)
> and the nfs mounts plus VPN are ALWAYS started before the network and
> exit with errors.
>
> I have to start ALL services by hand in order!
>
> If PostgreSQL can not start, then NO USER can log into the systenm!
>
> > But in this case it isn't clear what is triggering your DHCP
> > client.
>
> I have already deinstalled the isc-dhcp-client.
>
> > Nothing else in some subdirectory /etc/network/interfaces.d?
>
> No.
>
> I have now moved the config for ethernet to
>
> /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25
>
> So the content of the files show
>
> [ /etc/network/interfaces
> ]- # This file describes the
> network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate
> them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
>
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
>
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
> --
IF lack of a gateway "UG" entry in route -n is the problem, try this.

> [ /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25
> ]

> auto enp0s25 
> iface enp0s25 inet static
> address 192.168.0.202
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.0.1
> network 192.168.0.0
>
> allow-hotplug enp0s25
  ^
Doesn't the above line belong ABOVE the iface line? It has been in every 
example I've looked at. I am not using that line as its static, not 
dhcpd.

I just went thru around 3 days of screwing around with a 'static' setup 
on an arm64 rockchip, could not get it to take a gateway assignment so I 
couldn't go anyplace out of my home network, until I added this last 
line to /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0:

up route add default gw 192.168.xx.1

The usual gw assignment seems to be broken in stretch, but now it works 
as shown by a route -n. And has continued to work over several reboots.

[...]

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:10:36PM +0100, john doe wrote:
> On 2/6/2018 11:42 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

[...]

> >[ /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25 ]---
> >auto enp0s25
> >iface enp0s25 inet static
> > address 192.168.0.202
> > netmask 255.255.255.0
> > gateway 192.168.0.1
> > network 192.168.0.0
> >
> >allow-hotplug enp0s25
> >
> 
> Not sure if it makes any difference but I would put 'allow-hotplug
> ...' beneath 'auto ...' and not at the end of the file:
> 
> https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/ifupdown/interfaces.5.en.html

I would throw out this allow-hotplug altogether. This one is waiting
for udev detecting the hardware coming up -- if I understood you
right, the eth is built-in. Not needed, then (and one moving part
less).

If it is an eth USB dongle, OTOH... you might need it.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 12:03:15PM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>  DO not Cc: me, I am on THE LIST and I do not need 
>  messages twice which make it very hard to ansewer 
> 
> Hello Tomas,
> 
> Am 2018-02-06 hackte to...@tuxteam.de in die Tasten:
> >> I have installed on my ThinkPad T400 recently Stretch (base, xorg,  wdm,
> >> fvwm, gthumb, blueman, alsa...) only to discover, that 17 Packages  have
> >> missing Dependencies!
> >
> > the missing dependencies?
> 
> I do not know currently, except that blueman depends on  glib-x11  which
> is confirmed by the maintainer.  It seems gthumb has the same dependency
> because sinde blueman is working gthumb too.

I can't parse very well your last sentence.

Anyway, since I have a similarly minimalistic system as you have (I think
I'm a tad worse: I tend to avoid DBUS when I can. I think it's ugly), I
tried a simulated install of blueman:

  tomas@trotzki:~$ apt -s install blueman 
  NOTE: This is only a simulation!
apt needs root privileges for real execution.
Keep also in mind that locking is deactivated,
so don't depend on the relevance to the real current situation!
  Reading package lists... Done
  Building dependency tree   
  Reading state information... Done
  The following additional packages will be installed:
bluez bluez-obexd dbus gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1 gir1.2-gtk-3.0
gir1.2-notify-0.7 libapparmor1 libappindicator3-1 libbluetooth3
libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libical2 libindicator3-7
libnotify4 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 notification-daemon python3-cairo
python3-dbus python3-gi python3-gi-cairo
  Suggested packages:
pulseaudio-module-bluetooth default-dbus-session-bus | dbus-session-bus
python-dbus-doc python3-dbus-dbg
  Recommended packages:
policykit-1
  The following NEW packages will be installed:
blueman bluez bluez-obexd dbus gir1.2-appindicator3-0.1 gir1.2-gtk-3.0
gir1.2-notify-0.7 libapparmor1 libappindicator3-1 libbluetooth3
libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libical2 libindicator3-7 libnotify4
libpulse-mainloop-glib0 notification-daemon python3-cairo python3-dbus
python3-gi python3-gi-cairo
  [...]

So it does try to install quite a bit, but far from the whole Gnome,
Do you have somewhere in your apt configuration an "Install-Recommends
no"?

I have, for example in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/95no-recommends:

  APT::Install-Recommends no;

This is the only way to preserve sanity if you do care about a
minimalistic install, as you seem to do (the default is made for
people who want a "kinda-works-out-of-the-box" thing, which is
fine, but one should be aware of that).

> The dependendies are only satisfait if you install a full DE like Gnome,
> KDE or  other defaults by Debian.
> 
> If you install the bare minimum like
> 
> Debian base
> xorg
> wdm
> fvwmg
> thumb
> blueman
> alsa
> mc
> 
> you have a non-working system!

See above. For such a system (I've myself Fvwm too, heh) some fine
tuning of your package system seems necessary.

[...]

> yes, if you know, WHICH package you need, it can be installed manually
> which is already confirmed by 3 Package  maintainers.   They  assumed,
> that Debian User install always  a  complete  system,  but  where  not
> thinking on users which do not need a full DE.
> 
> Hence, some packages missing dependencies.

See above -- you need some tools to understand *why* the package system
"wants" to do things. One very nice one is the -s option to apt (or
apt-get), which means "simulate": there you can see what is going
to be installed. Another is apt show"  which will tell
you what's in the package, which others it depends on (and which other
are "recommended" or "suggested", which may also be installed
automatically depending on your packager config: my hunch is that
this is what's happening to you).

> I will install a second stretch in a VM and install only  the  minimum
> and then Package by Package to  figure  out,  which  dependencies  are
> missing.
> 
> It is a huge work, especially when I currently work in my 5,6ha forest
> on my BioFarm in Estonia (-10°C and 30cm snow).

That sounds like some amount of fun (I always complaing about Berlin being
too cold :-/

> > Is this your problem? Would you like to install (mostly) from a set of
> > ISOs on an USB stick or similar?
> 
> My T400 was under Windows 7 and had a "hardware" error which refuse to
> burn ANY DVDs. So I installed the ISO bootable on the  USB  Stick  and
> added the second ISO to it.
> 
> But it does not work.

How did you do that exactly? How do you get two DVDs ont one stick?

> Since my Interanet Server is also not running, I can not even install
> a local mirror.

I see... it should be possible to refer APT to a file system instead
of a DVD/CDROM.

> > Is this your problem? You can set a fixed IP address at install time,
> > or...
> 
> This was exactly what was not working!
> The Installer 

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[john doe]

On 2/6/2018 11:42 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

#  Do not Cc: me, I am on THE LIST and I do not need  ##
#  messages twice which make it very hard to answer.  ##


Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de

This is all? No "lo" stanza? Hm.


it is:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback


In that case, it looks more or less correct. Issuing "ifup -a"
should bring up your enp0s25 interface. Does it?


Yes, it is up.

The problem since Jessie is, that my PostgreSQL instances (I have 4) and
the nfs mounts plus VPN are ALWAYS started before the network and exit
with errors.

I have to start ALL services by hand in order!

If PostgreSQL can not start, then NO USER can log into the systenm!


But in this case it isn't clear what is triggering your DHCP
client.


I have already deinstalled the isc-dhcp-client.


Nothing else in some subdirectory /etc/network/interfaces.d?


No.

I have now moved the config for ethernet to

/etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25

So the content of the files show

[ /etc/network/interfaces ]-
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback


[ /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25 ]---
auto enp0s25
iface enp0s25 inet static
 address 192.168.0.202
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 gateway 192.168.0.1
 network 192.168.0.0

allow-hotplug enp0s25



Not sure if it makes any difference but I would put 'allow-hotplug ...' 
beneath 'auto ...' and not at the end of the file:


https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/ifupdown/interfaces.5.en.html

--
John Doe

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

#  Do not Cc: me, I am on THE LIST and I do not need  ##
#  messages twice which make it very hard to answer.  ##


Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: to...@tuxteam.de
> This is all? No "lo" stanza? Hm.

it is:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

> In that case, it looks more or less correct. Issuing "ifup -a"
> should bring up your enp0s25 interface. Does it?

Yes, it is up.

The problem since Jessie is, that my PostgreSQL instances (I have 4) and
the nfs mounts plus VPN are ALWAYS started before the network and exit
with errors.

I have to start ALL services by hand in order!

If PostgreSQL can not start, then NO USER can log into the systenm!

> But in this case it isn't clear what is triggering your DHCP
> client.

I have already deinstalled the isc-dhcp-client.

> Nothing else in some subdirectory /etc/network/interfaces.d?

No.

I have now moved the config for ethernet to

/etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25

So the content of the files show

[ /etc/network/interfaces ]-
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback


[ /etc/network/interfaces.d/enp0s25 ]---
auto enp0s25
iface enp0s25 inet static
address 192.168.0.202
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
network 192.168.0.0

allow-hotplug enp0s25


> OK. Let's try to debug that: since you're doing SysV init, the
> whole magic is done in  /etc/init.d/networking. This one is controlled
> by parameters set in /etc/default/networking. What is in there?

[ /etc/default/networking ]-
# Configuration for networking init script being run during
# the boot sequence

# Set to 'no' to skip interfaces configuration on boot
CONFIGURE_INTERFACES=yes

# Don't configure these interfaces. Shell wildcards supported/
#EXCLUDE_INTERFACES=

# Set to 'yes' to enable additional verbosity
VERBOSE=yes


> Next time you boot: could you watch your boot process and see whether
> you see anything special around "Configuring network interfaces" (that
> should be the message issued by /etc/init.d/networking). Perhaps there
> is something enlightening around that.
>
> Cheers

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: john doe
> On 2/6/2018 10:27 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: john doe
>>> - Are you using '/etc/network/interfaces' or
>>> /etc/systemd/network/INT-NAME.network?
>>
>> I have removed systemd from Stretch!
>>
>>> - What is the content of your interface file?
>>
>> auto enp0s25
>> iface enp0s25 inet static
>>  address 192.168.0.202
>>  netmask 255.255.255.0
>>  gateway 192.168.0.1
>>  network 192.168.0.0
>>
>
> Do you get any errors while doing:
>
> $/etc/init.d/networking restart

The usually messages for stoping and starting the network  and not more

> Do you get any error related to this issue in the log?

This is WHY I ask here, there are no error messages.


Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 11:27:08AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: john doe
> > - Are you using '/etc/network/interfaces' or
> > /etc/systemd/network/INT-NAME.network?
> 
> I have removed systemd from Stretch!
> 
> > - What is the content of your interface file?
> 
> auto enp0s25
> iface enp0s25 inet static
> address 192.168.0.202
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.0.1
> network 192.168.0.0

This is all? No "lo" stanza? Hm.

In that case, it looks more or less correct. Issuing "ifup -a"
should bring up your enp0s25 interface. Does it?

But in this case it isn't clear what is triggering your DHCP
client.

Nothing else in some subdirectory /etc/network/interfaces.d?
(But then, for that to have any effect, you'd have to have some
"source  /etc/network/interfaces.d/*" or similar in your e/n/i
file.

OK. Let's try to debug that: since you're doing SysV init, the
whole magic is done in  /etc/init.d/networking. This one is controlled
by parameters set in /etc/default/networking. What is in there?

Next time you boot: could you watch your boot process and see whether
you see anything special around "Configuring network interfaces" (that
should be the message issued by /etc/init.d/networking). Perhaps there
is something enlightening around that.

Cheers
- -- tomás
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

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=G096
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[john doe]

On 2/6/2018 10:27 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: john doe

- Are you using '/etc/network/interfaces' or
/etc/systemd/network/INT-NAME.network?


I have removed systemd from Stretch!


- What is the content of your interface file?


auto enp0s25
iface enp0s25 inet static
 address 192.168.0.202
 netmask 255.255.255.0
 gateway 192.168.0.1
 network 192.168.0.0



Do you get any errors while doing:

$/etc/init.d/networking restart

Do you get any error related to this issue in the log?

--
John Doe

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

 DO not Cc: me, I am on THE LIST and I do not need 
 messages twice which make it very hard to ansewer 

Hello Tomas,

Am 2018-02-06 hackte to...@tuxteam.de in die Tasten:
>> I have installed on my ThinkPad T400 recently Stretch (base, xorg,  wdm,
>> fvwm, gthumb, blueman, alsa...) only to discover, that 17 Packages  have
>> missing Dependencies!
>
> the missing dependencies?

I do not know currently, except that blueman depends on  glib-x11  which
is confirmed by the maintainer.  It seems gthumb has the same dependency
because sinde blueman is working gthumb too.

The dependendies are only satisfait if you install a full DE like Gnome,
KDE or  other defaults by Debian.

If you install the bare minimum like

Debian base
xorg
wdm
fvwmg
thumb
blueman
alsa
mc

you have a non-working system!

>> 11 Packages are now working and I try to figure out, WHICH  depends  are
>> missing to write the appropriated Bug Reports.
>
> what does exactly mean "not working"? Due to dependencies which should
> be there but aren't? Due to dependencies which are there, but the needed
> packages can't be downloaded?

yes, if you know, WHICH package you need, it can be installed manually
which is already confirmed by 3 Package  maintainers.   They  assumed,
that Debian User install always  a  complete  system,  but  where  not
thinking on users which do not need a full DE.

Hence, some packages missing dependencies.

I will install a second stretch in a VM and install only  the  minimum
and then Package by Package to  figure  out,  which  dependencies  are
missing.

It is a huge work, especially when I currently work in my 5,6ha forest
on my BioFarm in Estonia (-10°C and 30cm snow).

> Is this your problem? Would you like to install (mostly) from a set of
> ISOs on an USB stick or similar?

My T400 was under Windows 7 and had a "hardware" error which refuse to
burn ANY DVDs. So I installed the ISO bootable on the  USB  Stick  and
added the second ISO to it.

But it does not work.

Since my Interanet Server is also not running, I can not even install
a local mirror.

> Is this your problem? You can set a fixed IP address at install time,
> or...

This was exactly what was not working!
The Installer could not continue.

>> Now  I  have  tried  to  change  this  to  a   fixed   IP   address   in
>> /etc/network/interfaces, but it showed no reaction, still  started  DHCP
>> even if it is not configured.
>
> ...is this your problem? What did you do to your /etc/network/interfaces?
> What is your init system?

auto enp0s25
iface enp0s25 inet static
address 192.168.0.202
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
network 192.168.0.0


SysV

> What do you do exactly? "ifup -a"? Or "ifup eth0"? What's the name of your
> ethernet interface? The old-fashioned "ethX" or the new-fangled "en0pXXX"?

the old fashion does not work anymore.
I get an error "Device unknown"

ifup enp0s25

> How should we know? Is the broken display important?

Yes, because Debian Stretch does not more boot and I can not see the
Lilo command prompt

> Quoting a very famous (and in a way fundamental) book: don't panic 8-)

SEGFAULT!

> Thanks for your patience, cheers
> - -- tomás

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[Michelle Konzack]

Am DATE hackte AUTHOR in die Tasten: john doe
> - Are you using '/etc/network/interfaces' or
> /etc/systemd/network/INT-NAME.network?

I have removed systemd from Stretch!

> - What is the content of your interface file?

auto enp0s25
iface enp0s25 inet static
address 192.168.0.202
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.0.1
network 192.168.0.0

Thanks in advance

-- 
Michelle KonzackMiila ITSystems @ TDnet
GNU/Linux Developer 00372-54541400

Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[tomas]

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On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 10:50:48AM +0200, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Hello *,

Calm down. Try to structure your request. You see, you've got to help
us help you :-)

Now what's your problem:

> I have installed on my ThinkPad T400 recently Stretch (base, xorg,  wdm,
> fvwm, gthumb, blueman, alsa...) only to discover, that 17 Packages  have
> missing Dependencies!

the missing dependencies?

> 11 Packages are now working and I try to figure out, WHICH  depends  are
> missing to write the appropriated Bug Reports.

what does exactly mean "not working"? Due to dependencies which should
be there but aren't? Due to dependencies which are there, but the needed
packages can't be downloaded?

> However, I instaleld Stretch from an 8 GByte USB Stick and it  was  more
> or less working, except that afterwards the  download  of  8 GByte  ISOs
> and copying to the USB stick was worthless, because apt  can  not  mount
> the USB Stick and install from there (after reboot)...
> 
> Note: Where I live (Estonia), we do not DSL and I am on GSM/LTE
>   and the download has cost me 1/3 of my nmonthly contingent.
>   Direct installing from the internet is no real option,
>   because I have to install a WHOLE Network and it mean, I
>   have to download 17 times 2,5 Gbyte

Is this your problem? Would you like to install (mostly) from a set of
ISOs on an USB stick or similar?

> However, the Stretch installer had not accept at install time  my  fixed
> IP addresds because it could not connect to   the  internet  and  I  was
> forced to use DHCP which in  turn  is  not  allowed  to  connect  to  my
> Intranet Server for security reason (SE_Linux)

Is this your problem? You can set a fixed IP address at install time, or...

> Now  I  have  tried  to  change  this  to  a   fixed   IP   address   in
> /etc/network/interfaces, but it showed no reaction, still  started  DHCP
> even if it is not configured.

...is this your problem? What did you do to your /etc/network/interfaces?
What is your init system?

> Note: I have network-manager is NOT installed!
> 
> /etc/default/networking is set to configure network at boottime.
> 
> But whenever I boot my computer, I have to login as root and run "ifup".

What do you do exactly? "ifup -a"? Or "ifup eth0"? What's the name of your
ethernet interface? The old-fashioned "ethX" or the new-fangled "en0pXXX"?

> Can someone tell me, WTF is going on here?

No, unless you show us your /etc/network/interfaces. And we might have more
questions, then :-)

> Note:  I upgraded my broken (Display) Compaq CQ58 also to Stretch
>and I have no networking anymore.  Why is this?

How should we know? Is the broken display important?

> Any hints welcome
> 
> I am now realy angry!

Quoting a very famous (and in a way fundamental) book: don't panic 8-)

Thanks for your patience, cheers
- -- tomás
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Re: Ethernet is not started at boot

[john doe]

On 2/6/2018 9:50 AM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

Hello *,

I have installed on my ThinkPad T400 recently Stretch (base, xorg,  wdm,
fvwm, gthumb, blueman, alsa...) only to discover, that 17 Packages  have
missing Dependencies!

11 Packages are now working and I try to figure out, WHICH  depends  are
missing to write the appropriated Bug Reports.

However, I instaleld Stretch from an 8 GByte USB Stick and it  was  more
or less working, except that afterwards the  download  of  8 GByte  ISOs
and copying to the USB stick was worthless, because apt  can  not  mount
the USB Stick and install from there (after reboot)...

Note: Where I live (Estonia), we do not DSL and I am on GSM/LTE
   and the download has cost me 1/3 of my nmonthly contingent.
   Direct installing from the internet is no real option,
   because I have to install a WHOLE Network and it mean, I
   have to download 17 times 2,5 Gbyte

However, the Stretch installer had not accept at install time  my  fixed
IP addresds because it could not connect to   the  internet  and  I  was
forced to use DHCP which in  turn  is  not  allowed  to  connect  to  my
Intranet Server for security reason (SE_Linux)

Now  I  have  tried  to  change  this  to  a   fixed   IP   address   in
/etc/network/interfaces, but it showed no reaction, still  started  DHCP
even if it is not configured.

Note: I have network-manager is NOT installed!

/etc/default/networking is set to configure network at boottime.

But whenever I boot my computer, I have to login as root and run "ifup".

Can someone tell me, WTF is going on here?

Note:  I upgraded my broken (Display) Compaq CQ58 also to Stretch
and I have no networking anymore.  Why is this?

Any hints welcome

I am now realy angry!



- Are you using '/etc/network/interfaces' or 
/etc/systemd/network/INT-NAME.network?


- What is the content of your interface file?

--
John Doe