Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-13 Thread John Summerfield 
James Sinnamon wrote:
Thanks everyone for all your ideas.  My previously unmanageable
Mail directory will be manageable again very soon, but right now 
I will be putting it on hold until I get my own Mailman server 
working.

Some further questions (feel welcome to post any response to 
debian-user):

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:17 pm, John Summerfield wrote:
 

Better, turn on Kmail's expiration processing.
   

Where do I find this? What sub-menu? Does it allow me the option of putting
e-mails into an archive, or does it just purge them?
 

Choose a folder
Click Folder on the menu bar, choose properties.
Read the form.
I think it gets plonked.
You can also get the dialogue by right-clicking the folder.
 

Somewhere else, you get to choose _when_ it expires. Probably you don't 
want it asking silly questions all the time, or having to wait an hour 
or two:-)


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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread s. keeling 
Incoming from Karsten M. Self:
 :0
 * (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)debian
 {
 
 :0:
 * ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-openoffice/

With a little care, you might replace all of the latter with one
recipe:

  :0:
  * ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-\/@lists\.debian\.org
  $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-${MATCH}/


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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread s. keeling 
Incoming from James Sinnamon:
 Karsten and others,
 
 Firstly, thank you all for the responses.
 
 On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:35 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote:
  on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon 
 snip/
So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail 
   folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
 
  Procmail, or its equivalents.
  snip/
 
 On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:32 pm, S.D.A. wrote:
  What I do, is use a nice little utility called archivemail and set it up
 
 I take it that archivemail can handle mail folders and files which are

I don't know what he uses for archiving mail, but a shell script
wrapped around gzip that appends mail to a gzip archive works well.
cron runs mine:

  --
PATH=/usr/bin:/bin
MAILDIR=/home/keeling/Mail
YEAR=$(date '+%Y')

for f in abuse headhunters headhunter_reply procmail root spamcop-reports spam; do
   if [ -e ${MAILDIR}/${f} ]; then
  cat ${MAILDIR}/${f} | gzip  /home/keeling/dox/archive_Mail/${YEAR}_Mail_${f}.gz
  sleep 2
  sync ; sync ; sync
  echo ${0}: archived ${f} to: \$HOME/dox/archive_Mail/${YEAR}_Mail_${f}.gz
  cat /dev/null  ${MAILDIR}/${f}
   fi
done
  --

If your MUA (mutt?) is smart enough, it can even read gzipped mail
folders. 


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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread Karsten M. Self 
on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Dear List,
 
 My ${HOME}/Mail directory is currently nearly 350 Megs in size.  
 A lot of it is due to high volume mailing lists such as debian-user  
 (48 Meg so far), and this can only get much worse as I join more 
 and more high volume lists.
 
 So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
 folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
 
 I had thought of splitting the {HOME}/Mail into two and
 run a second instance of Kmail, with a different profile,
 to handle the mailing lists, but KMail doesn't seem to allow
 for this as far as I can tell (perhaps for some good reason).

What you want is procmail (or a similar utility).


There's a long history of tools in 'Nix for managing email.  Filtering
stuff to mailboxes by various criteria is only one side of it.

My own procmail recipies:

  - Add some useful headers to mail
  - Filter list mail to folders.
  - Deal with some high-priority mail (goes straight to my inbox).
  - Keeps track of senders who are on white or grey lists (or a couple
of others).
  - Handles spam with the addition of spamassassin.

You can do all sorts of stuff, including forwarding mail, executing
programs, and whatnot.  The syntax is slighly (ok, very) arcane, but
powerful.

There's a good set of prepared recipies in the spamtools package,
based on Lars Wirzenius's procmail filters.  Do *not* enable the
autoreply feature, but learn from the rest of it.

My own filters run over 24 files and 2000 lines, though most of it I
don't have to mess with (actually, splitting it into that many files
makes it easier to handle).

A small portion of my list management rules follows.  It handles my
Debian list mail.  The first rule identifies the lists globally, the
subsequent rules apply *only* to mail meeting the first, and drops mail
into the appropriate folder.


:0
* (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)debian
{

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-openoffice/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-qa/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-private/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-changes/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-policy/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-(admintool|devel)@lists.debian.org
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-devel/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-user/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bugs/

# Debian Laptop
:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-laptop/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-security/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-pilot/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-devel/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-firewall/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-python/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-testing/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bugs/

:0:
* 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$INBOX

# Catch-all
:0:
$INBOX
}


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of Gestalt don't you understand?
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread John Summerfield 
Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 

Dear List,
My ${HOME}/Mail directory is currently nearly 350 Megs in size.  
A lot of it is due to high volume mailing lists such as debian-user  
(48 Meg so far), and this can only get much worse as I join more 
and more high volume lists.

So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
I had thought of splitting the {HOME}/Mail into two and
run a second instance of Kmail, with a different profile,
to handle the mailing lists, but KMail doesn't seem to allow
for this as far as I can tell (perhaps for some good reason).
   

What you want is procmail (or a similar utility).
 

Better, turn on Kmail's expiration processing.

--
Cheers
John
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread Karsten M. Self 
on Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 12:05:10AM -0600, s. keeling ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Incoming from Karsten M. Self:
  :0
  * (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)debian
  {
  
  :0:
  * ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-openoffice/
 
 With a little care, you might replace all of the latter with one
 recipe:
 
   :0:
   * ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-\/@lists\.debian\.org
   $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-${MATCH}/

Nick Moffitt's posted a similar recipie which matches on pretty much all
the common (and otherwise) list serv software headers, and
automagickally filters the mail accordingly.  Pretty slick, all told.

But I drive stick.


Peace.

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 http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss/


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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread Karsten M. Self 
on Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 03:49:25PM +1000, James Sinnamon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Karsten and others,
 
 Firstly, thank you all for the responses.

NP.
 
 On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:35 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote:
  on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon 
 snip/
So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail 
   folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
 
  Procmail, or its equivalents.

...

 Of course you would be aware that Kmail's filtering capabilities 
 can do something similar to what is done above.  Do you use procmail 
 instead of, or as a complement to, a GUI e-mail client such as Kmail?

The difference is this:

  - If you use KMail's filtering tools, when you decide to switch to
another mail client (permanently or temporarially), you lose the
filtering.

  - If you use procmail, your filters are independent of your mailer.  I
can access my mail with mutt, balsa, kmail, evolution, or the shell.
Procmail doesn't care.

This is the advantage of proper scoping and modularization of tools.
It's a powerful concept.
 
 
 I take it that archivemail can handle mail folders and files which are
 already broken down in to sub-folders, such as mine, some of which
 are shown below?

Procmail reads messages from stdin.  Generally as the mail is delivered.
So that when you open your mail client, the mail is filtered and waiting
for you.

You can also (re)filter existing mailboxes by various means.


Peace.

-- 
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 What Part of Gestalt don't you understand?
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-12 Thread John Summerfield 
Karsten M. Self wrote:
on Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 03:49:25PM +1000, James Sinnamon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 

Karsten and others,
Firstly, thank you all for the responses.
   

NP.
 

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:35 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote:
   

on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon 
 

snip/
   

So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail 
 

folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
   

Procmail, or its equivalents.
 

...
 

Of course you would be aware that Kmail's filtering capabilities 
can do something similar to what is done above.  Do you use procmail 
instead of, or as a complement to, a GUI e-mail client such as Kmail?
   

The difference is this:
 - If you use KMail's filtering tools, when you decide to switch to
   another mail client (permanently or temporarially), you lose the
   filtering.
 

It's a standard kmail feature. Most people do not want to come to terms 
with procmail: I've used it, I had some pretty fancy filters that could 
spot most mailing lists, even those I'd never seen before, and drop the 
email into the appropriate folder, creating it if necessary.

Of course, if I changed email client I'd have to change those filters 
too, because the email folder format would likely be different.

Now I have an IMAP email service where per-user procmail filters are not 
possible.

At the time I was using procmail, using it with kmail was unsafe - the 
authors said so.

 - If you use procmail, your filters are independent of your mailer.  I
   can access my mail with mutt, balsa, kmail, evolution, or the shell.
   Procmail doesn't care.
This is the advantage of proper scoping and modularization of tools.
It's a powerful concept.
 

Procmail is fine for handling email at the time of delivery. In this 
case, the email's already in the folders.Kmail folders. Kmail can expire 
old email, all by itself.


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John
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread S.D.A. 
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000 or thereabouts, James Sinnamon wrote:
 Dear List,
 
 My ${HOME}/Mail directory is currently nearly 350 Megs in size.  
 A lot of it is due to high volume mailing lists such as debian-user  
 (48 Meg so far), and this can only get much worse as I join more 
 and more high volume lists.
 
 So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
 folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
 
 I had thought of splitting the {HOME}/Mail into two and
 run a second instance of Kmail, with a different profile,
 to handle the mailing lists, but KMail doesn't seem to allow
 for this as far as I can tell (perhaps for some good reason).

What I do, is use a nice little utility called archivemail and set it up via
CRON to archive my mail folders (mbox) at least once a month. Then I use another
utility called grepmail which can search both my active mboxes and the
compressed archived mail.

-- 
Steve
+
  Sunday Jul 11 2004 08:21:02 AM EDT
+
The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a strange
protein -- it rejects it.
-- P. Medawar


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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread s. keeling 
Incoming from S.D.A.:
 On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000 or thereabouts, James Sinnamon wrote:
  
  My ${HOME}/Mail directory is currently nearly 350 Megs in size.  
  A lot of it is due to high volume mailing lists such as debian-user  
  (48 Meg so far), and this can only get much worse as I join more 
  and more high volume lists.
  
  So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
  folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?

Though I use and recommend mutt, it has little to do with this problem.

 What I do, is use a nice little utility called archivemail and set it up via
 CRON to archive my mail folders (mbox) at least once a month. Then I use another
 utility called grepmail which can search both my active mboxes and the
 compressed archived mail.

I do all that too.  However, for the OP, it might be simpler to just
not archive mailing list mail.  You're duplicating lists.debian.org.
If it's all out there in a searchable archive, why do you also need it
on your box?


-- 
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread S.D.A. 
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 09:23:20AM -0600 or thereabouts, s. keeling wrote:
 Incoming from S.D.A.:
  On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000 or thereabouts, James Sinnamon wrote:

snip

   So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
   folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?
 
 Though I use and recommend mutt, it has little to do with this problem.
 
  What I do, is use a nice little utility called archivemail and set it up via
  CRON to archive my mail folders (mbox) at least once a month. Then I use another
  utility called grepmail which can search both my active mboxes and the
  compressed archived mail.
 
 I do all that too.  However, for the OP, it might be simpler to just
 not archive mailing list mail.  You're duplicating lists.debian.org.
 If it's all out there in a searchable archive, why do you also need it
 on your box?

Good point. Personally, I prefer to have an archive locally as opposed to
online, for those occasional times, one can't reach the 'net.

-- 
Steve
+
  Sunday Jul 11 2004 12:26:01 PM EDT
+



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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread Kenward Vaughan 
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 09:23:20AM -0600, s. keeling wrote:
...
 I do all that too.  However, for the OP, it might be simpler to just
 not archive mailing list mail.  You're duplicating lists.debian.org.
 If it's all out there in a searchable archive, why do you also need it
 on your box?

The letters I hold on to typically have some info I figure I may
want/need later.  I could see holding those locally since searching
them can be much easier/faster than anything online (including Google).

If the OP holds ALL the list mail, then I see that as a waste of space,
and agree with your assessment.  

Time for me to look at those tools... heheh.

Kenward
-- 
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread Karsten M. Self 
on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Dear List,
 
 My ${HOME}/Mail directory is currently nearly 350 Megs in size.  
 A lot of it is due to high volume mailing lists such as debian-user  
 (48 Meg so far), and this can only get much worse as I join more 
 and more high volume lists.
 
 So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail
 folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?

Procmail, or its equivalents.

There's a long, long tradition of tools in 'Nix to automate filtering
(and other processing) of email.  Procmail is one of the traditional
tools for doing this.  You can even start with some largely configured
scripts by installing the spamfilter package (based on Lars Wirzenius's
procmail recipies).

At its simplest, procmail allows you to direct mail into appropriate
buckets by mailing list.   I use mine to additionally:

  - Filter duplicate messages
  - Filter spam
  - Filter out blacklisted addresses/domains
  - Add various headers to mail

It runs to 24 files and 2700+ lines, most of which is largely stock.
Sounds intimidating, but works pretty damned well, and rarely needs
tweaking.  Primary exeptions are the list rules as I subscribe to new
mailing lists (and there are ways to largely automate this, if you trust
headers).

A small section of my own list.rules file, handling Debian mailing
lists, looks like the following.  Basically, it says if this was a
Debian list mail..., then tests for various list signatures and drops
the mail into an appropriate box:


* (^TO)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bad/

:0
* (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)debian
{

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-openoffice/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-qa/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-private/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-changes/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-policy/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-(admintool|devel)@lists.debian.org
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-devel/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-user/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bugs/

# Debian Laptop
:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-laptop/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-security/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-pilot/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-devel/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-firewall/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-python/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-testing/

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bugs/

:0:
* 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
$INBOX

# Catch-all
:0:
$INBOX
}



Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of Gestalt don't you understand?
GNOME (and real UI developers) READ THIS:
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Re: OT: Managing huge Mail/ folders (with mutt?)

2004-07-11 Thread James Sinnamon 
Karsten and others,

Firstly, thank you all for the responses.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:35 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote:
 on Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:18:55PM +1000, James Sinnamon 
snip/
   So could anyone tell me how they handle ever growing Mail 
  folders?  Perhaps 'mutt' is the way to go?

 Procmail, or its equivalents.
snip/
 A small section of my own list.rules file, handling Debian mailing
 lists, looks like the following.  Basically, it says if this was a
 Debian list mail..., then tests for various list signatures and drops
 the mail into an appropriate box:

 
 * (^TO)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-bad/

 :0

 * (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)debian
 {

 :0:

 * ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-openoffice/

 :0:

 * ^X-Mailing-List:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 $LISTDIR/Debian/debian-qa/

snip/
 :0:

 * 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 * 1^0 (^TO|^X-Mailing-List:.*)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 $INBOX

 # Catch-all

 :0:

 $INBOX
 }
 
Thanks for the explanation of procmail and the example. 

Of course you would be aware that Kmail's filtering capabilities 
can do something similar to what is done above.  Do you use procmail 
instead of, or as a complement to, a GUI e-mail client such as Kmail?

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:32 pm, S.D.A. wrote:
 What I do, is use a nice little utility called archivemail and set it up
 via CRON to archive my mail folders (mbox) at least once a month. Then I
 use another utility called grepmail which can search both my active
 mboxes and the compressed archived mail.

I take it that archivemail can handle mail folders and files which are
already broken down in to sub-folders, such as mine, some of which
are shown below?

---
  me:Mail$ find .
  .
  ./inbox
  ./.inbox.index
  ./outbox
  ./.outbox.index
  ./sent-mail
  ./.sent-mail.index
  ./trash
  ./.trash.index
  ./drafts
  ./.drafts.index

  ...

  ./.lists.directory

  ...

  ./.lists.directory/zope
  ./.lists.directory/zope/new
  ./.lists.directory/zope/cur
  ./.lists.directory/zope/cur/1084688626.13214.23Wk:2,S
  ./.lists.directory/zope/cur/1084707019.13214.qrEX:2,S

  ...

  ./.lists.directory/zope/cur/1087378026.2080.H4Yb:2,S
  ./.lists.directory/zope/tmp
  ./.lists.directory/.zope.index
  ./.lists.directory/.zope.index.ids

  ...

  ./.lists.directory/debian-user
  ./.lists.directory/debian-user/new
  ./.lists.directory/debian-user/cur
  ./.lists.directory/debian-user/cur/1085365323.1786.Ui0D:2,S
  ./.lists.directory/debian-user/cur/1085365323.1786.Ejn3:2,S

  ...

  ./.djvm.index.sorted
  ./.srec.index.sorted
  ./.tmp.index.sorted

---

Thanks again all,

regards,

James

-- 
James Sinnamon
[EMAIL PROTECTED] net au 
+61 412 319669, +61 2 95692123
(aka jaymz-.a.t.-bigpond-net-auStralia)


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