Re: ThinkPad fan

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

Francesco Montanari wrote on 06/30/16 16:41:
> On 06/30/2016 10:58 AM, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
>> Does your ThinkPad contain hybrid graphic adapters, an NVidia GPU?
>>
>> Regards,
>> jvp.
>>
>>
> 
> Please find the info below (integrated Intel + discrete Nvidia). I


There may still be a problem with energy saving of the GPU. That's what the link
I sent in another mail was about. But may that link is not up to date. This one
from archlinux seems better:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA_Optimus

Regards,
jvp.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Francesco Montanari]

On 06/30/2016 10:58 AM, Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
> Does your ThinkPad contain hybrid graphic adapters, an NVidia GPU?
>
> Regards,
> jvp.
>
>

Please find the info below (integrated Intel + discrete Nvidia). I
replaced the thermal paste both on the CPU and the discrete graphic card
(just followed the hardware maintenance manual). One thing that I may
have not done properly is the quantity of paste, that the manual
suggested to be precisely 0.2g. I proceeded with an educated guess
rather than measuring it...

Anyway, now most of the time the temperature stays below 60C also when
video calling (before the maintenance it reached easily 80C with Jitsi),
and goes above it (70C-80C) only after few minutes of 100% CPU usage
(when before it reached 96C). Seems reasonable?

Regards,
Francesco

# lspci -vnn | grep VGA -A 12
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation 2nd
Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
[8086:0126] (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Subsystem: Lenovo Device [17aa:21d0]
Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 45
Memory at f140 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4M]
Memory at e000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
I/O ports at 6000 [size=64]
Expansion ROM at  [disabled]
Capabilities: [90] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit-
Capabilities: [d0] Power Management version 2
Capabilities: [a4] PCI Advanced Features
Kernel driver in use: i915

00:16.0 Communication controller [0780]: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200
Series Chipset Family MEI Controller #1 [8086:1c3a] (rev 04)
--
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GF119M
[Quadro NVS 4200M] [10de:1057] (rev a1) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Subsystem: Lenovo Device [17aa:21d0]
Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 47
Memory at f000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
Memory at c000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
Memory at d000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=32M]
I/O ports at 5000 [size=128]
Expansion ROM at f100 [disabled] [size=512K]
Capabilities: [60] Power Management version 3
Capabilities: [68] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+
Capabilities: [78] Express Endpoint, MSI 00
Capabilities: [b4] Vendor Specific Information: Len=14 
Capabilities: [100] Virtual Channel

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

Does your ThinkPad contain hybrid graphic adapters, an NVidia GPU?

Regards,
jvp.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Francesco Montanari]

On 06/30/2016 03:13 AM, Gener Badenas wrote:
> 
> Is it just hardware issue or do you think the OS play some role on
> heating issue?  Can using a different OS make temp better?
> One more suggestion is to polish the surface well before attaching the
> heatsink.
>  
>

It was mainly a hardware problem. Cleaning the fan and especially
replacing the thermal grease helped to reduce the max temp from 96C to
less than 80C.

Enabling the package 'thinkfan' with default configuration also helps
reducing further ~5C, and to slow down the rise in temperature when
above 60C.

Regards,
Francesco

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Lisi Reisz]

On Thursday 30 June 2016 01:13:48 Gener Badenas wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Francesco Montanari
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestions. I tried the following, which didn't change
> > much the situation. Can it be that the CPUs just warm up more when
> > getting old, or it shouldn't matter if cleaned properly?
> >
> > a) I disassembled and cleaned the fan. Fairly dusty (it's about 5 years I
> > have the laptop), I used a vacuum cleaner to remove the dust. I have the
> > impression that the fan now pushes out more air.
> >
> > b) I installed and configured thinkfan (despite the buggy installation
> > [1]). The package description [2] says it is helpful in the case the fan
> > is running too much (not really my problem), but it actually provides an
> > easy way in general to set the fan levels for given temperature ranges
> > [3]. In comparison to before, the fan runs faster now when above 60C.
> >
> > c) I also tried to turn on by hand the disentangled mode (~5500rpm
> > instead of ~4500rpm) [4].
> >
> > d) I had a look to the script suggested by Tom (thanks), but didn't try
> > it since I managed to install thinkfan. FYI, I think that
> > /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal is no longer the way to get the temperature.
> >
> > For "normal" use (browsing, video, music, ...) the temperature stays
> > below 60C using thinkfan. When I run with CPUs at 100% it reaches 90C in
> > less than two minutes. For work I need to launch short (few minutes) but
> > CPU expensive runs (mostly numerical integrations) on a daily basis. I'll
> > ask around if someone can lend me one of those fan pads to try it out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Francesco
>
> Is it just hardware issue or do you think the OS play some role on heating
> issue?  Can using a different OS make temp better?
> One more suggestion is to polish the surface well before attaching the
> heatsink.
>
> > 1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767127
> > 2. https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thinkfan
> > 3. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=118734
> > 4. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_control_fan_speed
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Sven Arvidsson  wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 12:58 +0300, Francesco Montanari wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
> >> > looks
> >> > reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs
> >> > are
> >> > running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at
> >> > those
> >> > temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> >> >
> >> > Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> >> > e.g.,
> >> > with thinkfan [1]?
> >>
> >> It isn't unusual with a temperature like that during load, but it
> >> mostly seems to happen when playing demanding games on a laptop.
> >>
> >> I wouldn't worry about it if it just happens momentarily, but long
> >> running tasks that stress the system like that is probably not suitable
> >> on a laptop.
> >>
> >> Anyway, as others have pointed out, check for dust and make sure that
> >> you don't impede air flow yourself (by placing it on bed for example).
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >> Sven Arvidsson
> >> http://www.whiz.se

A friend of mine recently solved a similar problem by updating the BIOS.  But 
that was on an Acer or Asus.

Lisi

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Francesco Montanari]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <
h...@debian.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016, Francesco Montanari wrote:
> > 60C using thinkfan. When I run with CPUs at 100% it reaches 90C in less
> > than two minutes. For work I need to launch short (few minutes) but CPU
>
> Looks like a cracked thermal interface between the heatsink and the CPU.
> The repair is easy, but rather annoying to do: you have to replace the
> thermal compound and reseat the heatsink.
>

I finally found the paste and the time to replace it. Indeed, now it works
nicely, temperature
max always around 60C also after several minutes of intense CPU usage.

Thanks for the help!

Francesco

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Sat, 18 Jun 2016, Francesco Montanari wrote:
> 60C using thinkfan. When I run with CPUs at 100% it reaches 90C in less
> than two minutes. For work I need to launch short (few minutes) but CPU

Looks like a cracked thermal interface between the heatsink and the CPU.
The repair is easy, but rather annoying to do: you have to replace the
thermal compound and reseat the heatsink.

Obviously, you have to be *very* careful about what you're doing, or
you're going to damage something, and replacing a planar (motherboard)
is *expensive*.

Warning: whatever you do, use only non-reactive, non-conductive,
high-quality thermal compounds.  Arctic Silver 5 is a good choice, and
the one I use.

Refer to the hardware maintenance manual for your specific thinkpad, and
look for extra information on youtube and the thinkpad forums if you
never did this kind of thing before.  You will have to properly clean up
the old thermal compound, btw.  Beware any thermal pads, some thinkpads
use them.

Alternatively, a decent repair shop that has some overclocker in house
will be quite good at doing this kind of repair.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Jörg-Volker Peetz]

Maybe, you'll find some hints here: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T420

Regards,
jvp.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Francesco Montanari]

> > I should probably clean the fans, but another thing I usually do for
> > normal
> > usage is to limit the cpu speed.
> >
> > As root:
> >
> > #echo 60 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/max_perf_pct
> >
> > Or whatever number you feel good with. Unless I am doing heavy usage,
> > I do not
> > notice performance penalties and temperatures do not get that high.
>
> This sounds like a good suggestion.

Indeed, this sounds like a great solution for me. Limiting CPUs to 80% does
not increase terribly the execution time, and with thinkfan active it stays
below 70C when running the same code that I was testing before (without
thinkfan it reaches 80C). I attach below the scripts that I am using to set
the cpu limit at boot time by enabling "systemctl enable
set_cpu_max_perf_pct".

Thanks,
Francesco




== /usr/bin/set_cpu_max_perf_pct ==
#!/bin/sh

# Set the max CPU use percentage
start() {
echo 80 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/max_perf_pct
}

# Revert back to 100 percent
stop() {
echo 100 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/max_perf_pct
}

case $1 in
start|stop) "$1" ;;
esac




== /etc/systemd/system/set_cpu_max_perf_pct.service ==
[Unit]
Description=Limit global cpu usage

[Service]
Type=oneshot
ExecStart=/usr/bin/set_cpu_max_perf_pct start
ExecStop=/usr/bin/set_cpu_max_perf_pct stop
RemainAfterExit=yes


[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Sat, 2016-06-18 at 11:35 +0200, Luis Felipe Tabera Alonso wrote:
> I have the very same model and also suffer from the high temperature
> problem. 
> I should probably clean the fans, but another thing I usually do for
> normal 
> usage is to limit the cpu speed.
> 
> As root:
> 
> #echo 60 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/max_perf_pct
> 
> Or whatever number you feel good with. Unless I am doing heavy usage,
> I do not 
> notice performance penalties and temperatures do not get that high.

This sounds like a good suggestion. 

AFAIK modern CPUs use thermal throttling so even if you would run it
hot you wouldn't get full performance out of it anyway.

Disassembling the heatsink and applying a good thermal paste might
shave of a few degrees, but that involves a bit more work.

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Luis Felipe Tabera Alonso]

On sábado, 18 de junio de 2016 11:41:36 (CEST) Francesco Montanari wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions. I tried the following, which didn't change much
> the situation. Can it be that the CPUs just warm up more when getting old,
> or it shouldn't matter if cleaned properly?
> 
> a) I disassembled and cleaned the fan. Fairly dusty (it's about 5 years I
> have the laptop), I used a vacuum cleaner to remove the dust. I have the
> impression that the fan now pushes out more air.
> 
> b) I installed and configured thinkfan (despite the buggy installation
> [1]). The package description [2] says it is helpful in the case the fan is
> running too much (not really my problem), but it actually provides an easy
> way in general to set the fan levels for given temperature ranges [3]. In
> comparison to before, the fan runs faster now when above 60C.
> 
> c) I also tried to turn on by hand the disentangled mode (~5500rpm instead
> of ~4500rpm) [4].
> 
> d) I had a look to the script suggested by Tom (thanks), but didn't try it
> since I managed to install thinkfan. FYI, I think that
> /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal is no longer the way to get the temperature.

I have the very same model and also suffer from the high temperature problem. 
I should probably clean the fans, but another thing I usually do for normal 
usage is to limit the cpu speed.

As root:

#echo 60 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate/max_perf_pct

Or whatever number you feel good with. Unless I am doing heavy usage, I do not 
notice performance penalties and temperatures do not get that high.

Luis

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 18 June 2016 09:41:36 Francesco Montanari wrote:
> I'll ask
> around if someone can lend me one of those fan pads to try it out.

You do need a powered one.  Which may necessitate a powered USB hub. :-(

Lisi

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Francesco Montanari]

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions. I tried the following, which didn't change much
the situation. Can it be that the CPUs just warm up more when getting old,
or it shouldn't matter if cleaned properly?

a) I disassembled and cleaned the fan. Fairly dusty (it's about 5 years I
have the laptop), I used a vacuum cleaner to remove the dust. I have the
impression that the fan now pushes out more air.

b) I installed and configured thinkfan (despite the buggy installation
[1]). The package description [2] says it is helpful in the case the fan is
running too much (not really my problem), but it actually provides an easy
way in general to set the fan levels for given temperature ranges [3]. In
comparison to before, the fan runs faster now when above 60C.

c) I also tried to turn on by hand the disentangled mode (~5500rpm instead
of ~4500rpm) [4].

d) I had a look to the script suggested by Tom (thanks), but didn't try it
since I managed to install thinkfan. FYI, I think that
/proc/acpi/ibm/thermal is no longer the way to get the temperature.

For "normal" use (browsing, video, music, ...) the temperature stays below
60C using thinkfan. When I run with CPUs at 100% it reaches 90C in less
than two minutes. For work I need to launch short (few minutes) but CPU
expensive runs (mostly numerical integrations) on a daily basis. I'll ask
around if someone can lend me one of those fan pads to try it out.

Thanks,
Francesco

1. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=767127
2. https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thinkfan
3. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=118734
4. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_control_fan_speed

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Sven Arvidsson  wrote:

> On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 12:58 +0300, Francesco Montanari wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
> > looks
> > reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs
> > are
> > running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at
> > those
> > temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> > e.g.,
> > with thinkfan [1]?
>
> It isn't unusual with a temperature like that during load, but it
> mostly seems to happen when playing demanding games on a laptop.
>
> I wouldn't worry about it if it just happens momentarily, but long
> running tasks that stress the system like that is probably not suitable
> on a laptop.
>
> Anyway, as others have pointed out, check for dust and make sure that
> you don't impede air flow yourself (by placing it on bed for example).
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Sven Arvidsson
> http://www.whiz.se
>
>

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 12:58 +0300, Francesco Montanari wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
> looks
> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs
> are
> running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at
> those
> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> 
> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> e.g.,
> with thinkfan [1]?

It isn't unusual with a temperature like that during load, but it
mostly seems to happen when playing demanding games on a laptop.

I wouldn't worry about it if it just happens momentarily, but long
running tasks that stress the system like that is probably not suitable
on a laptop.

Anyway, as others have pointed out, check for dust and make sure that
you don't impede air flow yourself (by placing it on bed for example).

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 June 2016 10:21:26 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Friday 17 June 2016 15:01:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 17 June 2016 08:22:02 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> > > On 6/17/16, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> > > > On 6/17/16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
> > > >> Francesco Montanari wrote:
> > > >>> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan
> > > >>> usage looks
> > > >>> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when
> > > >>> CPUs are running intensively for more than one minute or so.
> > > >>> The fan speed at those
> > > >>> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower
> > > >>> temperatures, e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
> > > >>
> > > >> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies
> > > >> (IIRC, 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink
> > > >> too.
> > > >
> > > > Consider this an emergency situation that needs immediately
> > > > addressed. For example, if I personally didn't already have my
> > > > brain circuits mentally locked up on fighting setting up home
> > > > wifi, I'd be searching the Net for an external laptop fan, the
> > > > USB kind that sits under the laptop (oh, and a replacement
> > > > dialup modem). In the meantime, I currently have a desktop fan
> > > > faced toward mine, and it's definitely helping.
> > >
> > > I literally hate when this happens. A thought occurred as fast as
> > > that last email was sent. Low income types like myself don't
> > > always have enough pennies to rub together to even buy a cheap fan
> > > of any kind on demand. Doesn't mean we've completely run out of
> > > alternatives. The dogs busted my first laptop fan's USB connection
> > > couple years ago, but I still used the stand part of it
> > > successfully as a coolant aid for another year or so (until they
> > > broke that, too).
> > >
> > > ANYTHING that can *safely* get a laptop off the desktop surface
> > > helps even if no extra fan is available in an emergency. Give air
> > > every chance possible to circulate all around the machine.
> > >
> > > Mine's currently sitting on top of... knitting needles. They're
> > > placed so that they are not near the hottest parts of the laptop
> > > and so that they do not interfere with any other type of airflow,
> > > either. Just another #Life Lesson Learned the Hard Way due to
> > > losing couple machines over the years k/t the whole low income
> > > thing,
> > > yada-yada-grin...
> > >
> > > Cindy :)
> >
> > I would saw a couple of the old, small matching sized thread spools
> > in two, cutting so you have a long half and a short half. Put the
> > short ones under the front edge, and the long ones under the rear
> > edge, possibly securing them beside its existing feet with some
> > fabric glue I'd expect you have in the sewing kit.  That would leave
> > far more open space for the heat to be carried away than the
> > knitting needles would. And that sort of glue would allow easy
> > removal in the event you'd have to open it and they are hiding an
> > assembly screw.
>
> Like it: :-))
>
> But it requires equipment, like a hacksaw and vice to cut the spools
> smoothly and matching-ly, or your laptop would wobble.  Not all of us
> have fully equipped workshops, Gene. ;-)
>
Ordinary saw, and level the wobble out with sandpaper.  Spools these days 
are some sort of foam plastic moldings, might even be cuttable with a 
sharp knife.  Its even possible the glue could wreck the spool by 
dissolving it, one of the reasons I said fabric glue, that may be a 
safer formula than anything full of aromatics.  They are usually bad 
news for foamed plastic.

> But I love the idea!  Really ingenious.  Have you tried it??
>
> Lisi

No.  My only lappy, an ancient HP DV-5120-us, doesn't run that hot. The 
fan kicks in for maybe 10 seconds at 30+ second intervals.  I've used it 
for my "on the road" computer since about 2002.  Email, and a bit of web 
browsing, and acting like a terminal occasionally is about it. OEM 
battery still runs it for a little while but its getting tired too.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Francesco Montanari  writes:

> Hi,
>
> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
> looks reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when
> CPUs are running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan
> speed at those temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
>
> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> e.g., with thinkfan [1]?
>
> Thanks,
> Francesco
>
> [1] https://packages.debian.org/jessie/thinkfan

That's unlikely to hurt anything, but from the package description it
sounds like will only slow a fan down if it doesn't need to run fast,
which isn't your problem.

>From my experience on overheating laptops, the first thing I'd do would
be to clean everything.  Laptops have much more constrained air paths
than desktops, and it's easy for air inlets (this is where I've seen
problems most frequently) or heat sinks to get clogged so you don't get
the flow you need.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 June 2016 15:01:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 17 June 2016 08:22:02 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> > On 6/17/16, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> > > On 6/17/16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
> > >> Francesco Montanari wrote:
> > >>> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan
> > >>> usage looks
> > >>> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when
> > >>> CPUs are running intensively for more than one minute or so. The
> > >>> fan speed at those
> > >>> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> > >>>
> > >>> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower
> > >>> temperatures, e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
> > >>
> > >> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies
> > >> (IIRC, 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.
> > >
> > > Consider this an emergency situation that needs immediately
> > > addressed. For example, if I personally didn't already have my brain
> > > circuits mentally locked up on fighting setting up home wifi, I'd be
> > > searching the Net for an external laptop fan, the USB kind that sits
> > > under the laptop (oh, and a replacement dialup modem). In the
> > > meantime, I currently have a desktop fan faced toward mine, and it's
> > > definitely helping.
> >
> > I literally hate when this happens. A thought occurred as fast as that
> > last email was sent. Low income types like myself don't always have
> > enough pennies to rub together to even buy a cheap fan of any kind on
> > demand. Doesn't mean we've completely run out of alternatives. The
> > dogs busted my first laptop fan's USB connection couple years ago, but
> > I still used the stand part of it successfully as a coolant aid for
> > another year or so (until they broke that, too).
> >
> > ANYTHING that can *safely* get a laptop off the desktop surface helps
> > even if no extra fan is available in an emergency. Give air every
> > chance possible to circulate all around the machine.
> >
> > Mine's currently sitting on top of... knitting needles. They're placed
> > so that they are not near the hottest parts of the laptop and so that
> > they do not interfere with any other type of airflow, either. Just
> > another #Life Lesson Learned the Hard Way due to losing couple
> > machines over the years k/t the whole low income thing,
> > yada-yada-grin...
> >
> > Cindy :)
>
> I would saw a couple of the old, small matching sized thread spools in
> two, cutting so you have a long half and a short half. Put the short
> ones under the front edge, and the long ones under the rear edge,
> possibly securing them beside its existing feet with some fabric glue
> I'd expect you have in the sewing kit.  That would leave far more open
> space for the heat to be carried away than the knitting needles would.
> And that sort of glue would allow easy removal in the event you'd have to
> open it and they are hiding an assembly screw.

Like it: :-))

But it requires equipment, like a hacksaw and vice to cut the spools smoothly 
and matching-ly, or your laptop would wobble.  Not all of us have fully 
equipped workshops, Gene. ;-) 

But I love the idea!  Really ingenious.  Have you tried it??

Lisi

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 June 2016 09:25:57 Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Friday 17 June 2016 13:52:51 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> > (I guess some logical solutions aren't under consideration.)
>
> I have yet to meet a dog-owner whose logical faculties extend to their
> dogs. :-/
>
> Lisi

Now that you mention it, Lisi...   When our Blaze (an AKC registered 
Shelty, good house dog, good watch dog) died about 6 years back, he was 
such a part of the family I wanted to get another.  But Dee, my bride of 
26 years now also understood that it was a lot of work she with her 
copd, no longer felt like doing, she took him to the vet, and to be 
shampooed and groomed. I still miss him, and while he was "it was always 
there" fed, if I got out a bowl of anything, I could count on him 
sitting beside my chair in sphinx position because he knew he'd get to 
lick the bowl.  And it took me about a year to quit putting my ice cream 
or cereal bowls on the floor when I was done.  I'd only been doing it 
for a decade.  Old habits...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: ThinkPad fan

[deloptes]

Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Friday 17 June 2016 13:52:51 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
>> (I guess some logical solutions aren't under consideration.)
> 
> I have yet to meet a dog-owner whose logical faculties extend to their
> dogs. :-/
> 
> Lisi

(y) those were good jokes

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 17 June 2016 08:22:02 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> On 6/17/16, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> > On 6/17/16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
> >> Francesco Montanari wrote:
> >>> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan
> >>> usage looks
> >>> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when
> >>> CPUs are running intensively for more than one minute or so. The
> >>> fan speed at those
> >>> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> >>>
> >>> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower
> >>> temperatures, e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
> >>
> >> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies
> >> (IIRC, 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.
> >
> > Consider this an emergency situation that needs immediately
> > addressed. For example, if I personally didn't already have my brain
> > circuits mentally locked up on fighting setting up home wifi, I'd be
> > searching the Net for an external laptop fan, the USB kind that sits
> > under the laptop (oh, and a replacement dialup modem). In the
> > meantime, I currently have a desktop fan faced toward mine, and it's
> > definitely helping.
>
> I literally hate when this happens. A thought occurred as fast as that
> last email was sent. Low income types like myself don't always have
> enough pennies to rub together to even buy a cheap fan of any kind on
> demand. Doesn't mean we've completely run out of alternatives. The
> dogs busted my first laptop fan's USB connection couple years ago, but
> I still used the stand part of it successfully as a coolant aid for
> another year or so (until they broke that, too).
>
> ANYTHING that can *safely* get a laptop off the desktop surface helps
> even if no extra fan is available in an emergency. Give air every
> chance possible to circulate all around the machine.
>
> Mine's currently sitting on top of... knitting needles. They're placed
> so that they are not near the hottest parts of the laptop and so that
> they do not interfere with any other type of airflow, either. Just
> another #Life Lesson Learned the Hard Way due to losing couple
> machines over the years k/t the whole low income thing,
> yada-yada-grin...
>
> Cindy :)

I would saw a couple of the old, small matching sized thread spools in 
two, cutting so you have a long half and a short half. Put the short 
ones under the front edge, and the long ones under the rear edge, 
possibly securing them beside its existing feet with some fabric glue 
I'd expect you have in the sewing kit.  That would leave far more open 
space for the heat to be carried away than the knitting needles would.
And that sort of glue would allow easy removal in the event you'd have to 
open it and they are hiding an assembly screw.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 June 2016 13:52:51 cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:
> (I guess some logical solutions aren't under consideration.)

I have yet to meet a dog-owner whose logical faculties extend to their 
dogs. :-/

Lisi

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 17 June 2016 13:22:02 Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> They're placed
> so that they are not near the hottest parts of the laptop

Provided they are not in any way obstructing airflow, then assuming they are 
metal ones you WANT them near or under the heat to help conduct it away.  I 
am assuming they are not plastic (shudder - how does anyone manage to knit on 
plastic?), and bamboo is expensive, but you might have saved those pennies 
up   So metal seems reasonably likely.

Lisi

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Tom Grace]

On 17/06/2016 10:58, Francesco Montanari wrote:

I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
looks reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when
CPUs are running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan
speed at those temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
Back when I had a ThinkPad, I found it would shut itself down at around 
that temperature. I also found that 4500 RPM isn't exactly the highest 
speed the fan can run.


I wrote https://github.com/theothertom/thinkpad-temp_mon to control the 
fan and have it spin faster over 80C. Before you have a go, note that 
I've not touched that code in >4 years (and don't have a thinkpad any 
more), so it might take a bit of poking before it works.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[cbannister]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 08:22:02AM -0400, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:
> I literally hate when this happens. A thought occurred as fast as that
> last email was sent. Low income types like myself don't always have
> enough pennies to rub together to even buy a cheap fan of any kind on
> demand. Doesn't mean we've completely run out of alternatives. The
> dogs busted my first laptop fan's USB connection couple years ago, but
> I still used the stand part of it successfully as a coolant aid for
> another year or so (until they broke that, too).

Then logically it sounds like you should sell the dogs, get cash and
will save on further expenditure relating to them *plus* your household
appliances will be under less risk! :)

(I guess some logical solutions aren't under consideration.)

-- 
The media's the most powerful entity on earth. 
They have the power to make the innocent guilty 
and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power.
 -- Malcolm X

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 6/17/16, Cindy-Sue Causey  wrote:
> On 6/17/16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
>> Francesco Montanari wrote:
>>> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
>>> looks
>>> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs are
>>> running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at
>>> those
>>> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
>>>
>>> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
>>> e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
>>
>> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies (IIRC,
>> 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.
>
>
> Consider this an emergency situation that needs immediately addressed.
> For example, if I personally didn't already have my brain circuits
> mentally locked up on fighting setting up home wifi, I'd be searching
> the Net for an external laptop fan, the USB kind that sits under the
> laptop (oh, and a replacement dialup modem). In the meantime, I
> currently have a desktop fan faced toward mine, and it's definitely
> helping.


I literally hate when this happens. A thought occurred as fast as that
last email was sent. Low income types like myself don't always have
enough pennies to rub together to even buy a cheap fan of any kind on
demand. Doesn't mean we've completely run out of alternatives. The
dogs busted my first laptop fan's USB connection couple years ago, but
I still used the stand part of it successfully as a coolant aid for
another year or so (until they broke that, too).

ANYTHING that can *safely* get a laptop off the desktop surface helps
even if no extra fan is available in an emergency. Give air every
chance possible to circulate all around the machine.

Mine's currently sitting on top of... knitting needles. They're placed
so that they are not near the hottest parts of the laptop and so that
they do not interfere with any other type of airflow, either. Just
another #Life Lesson Learned the Hard Way due to losing couple
machines over the years k/t the whole low income thing,
yada-yada-grin...

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 6/17/16, Dan Purgert  wrote:
> Francesco Montanari wrote:
>> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage
>> looks
>> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs are
>> running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at
>> those
>> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
>>
>> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
>> e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
>
> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies (IIRC,
> 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.


Ditto (same thought process here). I just this week lost a ~3-year-old
*external*, i.e. not even internal, dialup modem to (external) heat in
the house. If you run disks in an internal laptop DVD writer/player,
they'll be so hot they'll almost burn you.

Consider this an emergency situation that needs immediately addressed.
For example, if I personally didn't already have my brain circuits
mentally locked up on fighting setting up home wifi, I'd be searching
the Net for an external laptop fan, the USB kind that sits under the
laptop (oh, and a replacement dialup modem). In the meantime, I
currently have a desktop fan faced toward mine, and it's definitely
helping.

The thing to remember about fans is they don't "cool" like an air
conditioning. They only blow hot air around. Our ongoing job is to
make sure our fans have the easiest time possible shoving hot air
*_out and away from_* our machines.

Just thinking out loud... :)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with duct tape *

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Norbert Kiszka]

Dnia 2016-06-17, pią o godzinie 10:26 +, Dan Purgert pisze:
> Francesco Montanari wrote:
> > I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage looks
> > reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs are
> > running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at those
> > temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
> >
> > Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> > e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?
> 
> Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies (IIRC,
> 100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.
> 
> 

Personally on too much dust, i screwing heatsink out and put into water
- but after initial blowing.

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Hans]

Hi, 

the rotation of the fan does not mean, it is cooling! I believe, there is a 
lot of dust in the exit for the warm air. So, I suggest, to open your notebook 
and make sure, that the air is good flooding.

The temperature for Intel cpus (as far as I know), should be about 40-60 
degrees, whilst those from AMD are at the same clock speed a little bit 
higher, so about 60-80 degrees Celsius.
 
These are no absolutely temeperatures, just a mark. 90-100 degrees is much too 
high.

Also check, what is controlling the fan: BIOS or some software.

Good luck, 

Hans


>Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures, e.g., 
>with thinkfan [1]?

>Thanks,
>Francesco

Re: ThinkPad fan

[Dan Purgert]

Francesco Montanari wrote:
> I recently installed Jessie on a Lenovo ThinkPad T420. The fan usage looks
> reasonable. However, high temperatures (96 C) are reached when CPUs are
> running intensively for more than one minute or so. The fan speed at those
> temperatures is about 4500 rpm.
>
> Do you think it is ok, or do you suggest to force lower temperatures,
> e.g.,with thinkfan [1]?

Absolutely.  95C is pushing the thermal thresholds of CPU dies (IIRC,
100C is the burnout temp on most).  Clean your heatsink too.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O|