Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Andy Smith]

Hi Gene,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 06:58:34AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> I only made the apple comment after receiving bounce msgs 
> 3 times from attempting to post to @cups.org.

I've already asked once that you show us the exact text of those
bounces, so that we might determine where the problem lies.

> Doing to the site that originated the bounce msgs, and finding
> that the cups mailing list was not listed there,

I've already pointed out that the cups list does still appear to be
mentioned here:

https://lists.cups.org/mailman/listinfo/cups

and that it last had traffic back in November, which doesn't seem
to be an unusual state of affairs for that list. You did confirm
that this was the list you meant.

So, its web interface and archives still exist. Whether it still
accepts email we do not know.

> the fact that the lists going away had been announced on 
> that list months ago,

Do you recall which month? Perhaps you could find that announcement
in the archives?

https://lists.cups.org/pipermail/cups/

I had a quick glance and couldn't find it, but might have missed it.
I did some web searches but only get hits from this thread!
It would definitely help to know what has been announced.

> I posted the only theory I had left.

While you obviously could be correct in your claim that the cups
list at lists.cups.org has been decommissioned, you haven't actually
given us any way to verify that, and it's not for wont of asking.

> If there actually still is a cups list, lay it on me. But it
> hasn't been yet.

A strange assertion since you did already tell me that you were
talking about c...@cups.org and that you had now attempted to (re-?)
subscribe to it. Doesn't that make it your turn to clarify?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Brian]

On Wed 15 Dec 2021 at 07:35:16 -0500, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> And I got my sig fixed.

Excellent! Your sig. is generally the most reliable, informative and
helpful item in postings :). It also upholds the inalienable rights
of some people to conduct massacres on school premises.

-- 
Brian.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 6:58:34 AM EST gene heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 3:05:50 AM EST Andy Smith wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 04:31:55PM -, Curt wrote:
> > > On 2021-12-14, David Wright  wrote:
> > > > On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > >> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> > > >> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting
> > > >> a
> > > >> new, blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not
> > > >> copy/paste it to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
> > > > 
> > > > What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
> > > > to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)
> > > 
> > > My guess is personal mail. But who's Andy?
> 
> Andrew Cater
> 
> > I think he's referring to me, since I was one of the first people to
> > respond to his CUPS questions (plus bonus conspiracy theories about
> > Apple), and his response came directly to my personal email not the
> > list.
> > 
> > As usual I struggled to understand what Gene is asking for but I
> > parsed it as something like, "I have no idea how to send email with
> > Firefox such that it goes only to the list, not to you directly, so
> > can you help me by not including your own email address?"
> > 
> > Which still makes very little sense to me, but this is nothing new.
> > 
> > As far as I can see no one needs to change how they are sending
> > email to this list, Gene just needs to learn how to work whatever
> > mail software he is using.
> 
> I'm on kmail now, Which does handle replys properly. But when using FF, in
> order to get the list included, you must reply-all, then clear the to: box
> in order to stop the automatic PM. More useless mouse work.
> 
> And I might add that I only made the apple comment after receiving bounce
correction for typu here
> msgs 3 times from attempting to post to @cups.org. Going to the site that
> originated the bounce msgs, and finding that the cups mailing list was not
> listed there, and the fact that the lists going away had been announced on
> that list months ago, I posted the only theory I had left. If there
> actually still is a cups list, lay it on me. But it hasn't been yet.
> 
> > Cheers,
> > Andy
> 
> .
And I got my sig fixed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 3:05:50 AM EST Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 04:31:55PM -, Curt wrote:
> > On 2021-12-14, David Wright  wrote:
> > > On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> > >> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a
> > >> new, blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not
> > >> copy/paste it to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
> > > 
> > > What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
> > > to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)
> > 
> > My guess is personal mail. But who's Andy?
> 
Andrew Cater

> I think he's referring to me, since I was one of the first people to
> respond to his CUPS questions (plus bonus conspiracy theories about
> Apple), and his response came directly to my personal email not the
> list.
> 
> As usual I struggled to understand what Gene is asking for but I
> parsed it as something like, "I have no idea how to send email with
> Firefox such that it goes only to the list, not to you directly, so
> can you help me by not including your own email address?"
> 
> Which still makes very little sense to me, but this is nothing new.
> 
> As far as I can see no one needs to change how they are sending
> email to this list, Gene just needs to learn how to work whatever
> mail software he is using.
> 
I'm on kmail now, Which does handle replys properly. But when using FF, in 
order to get the list included, you must reply-all, then clear the to: box in 
order to stop the automatic PM. More useless mouse work.

And I might add that I only made the apple comment after receiving bounce msgs 
3 times from attempting to post to @cups.org. Doing to the site that 
originated the bounce msgs, and finding that the cups mailing list was not 
listed there, and the fact that the lists going away had been announced on 
that list months ago, I posted the only theory I had left. If there actually 
still is a cups list, lay it on me. But it hasn't been yet.

> Cheers,
> Andy

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Curt]

On 2021-12-15, Andy Smith  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 04:31:55PM -, Curt wrote:
>> On 2021-12-14, David Wright  wrote:
>> > On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:
>> >> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
>> >> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a 
>> >> new,
>> >> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
>> >> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
>> >
>> > What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
>> > to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)
>> 
>> My guess is personal mail. But who's Andy?
>

I thought I saw that Andrei responded to this post of Gene's, and
believed maybe Gene was referring to Andrei as "Andy" which is funny (or
not, maybe depending on whether you're Andrei or not) and kind of
American its easy-going and familiar geniality.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 04:31:55PM -, Curt wrote:
> On 2021-12-14, David Wright  wrote:
> > On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> >> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a 
> >> new,
> >> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> >> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
> >
> > What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
> > to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)
> 
> My guess is personal mail. But who's Andy?

I think he's referring to me, since I was one of the first people to
respond to his CUPS questions (plus bonus conspiracy theories about
Apple), and his response came directly to my personal email not the
list.

As usual I struggled to understand what Gene is asking for but I
parsed it as something like, "I have no idea how to send email with
Firefox such that it goes only to the list, not to you directly, so
can you help me by not including your own email address?"

Which still makes very little sense to me, but this is nothing new.

As far as I can see no one needs to change how they are sending
email to this list, Gene just needs to learn how to work whatever
mail software he is using.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Brian]

On Mon 13 Dec 2021 at 18:41:15 -0800, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec, 2021 at 2:45 PM, Brian  wrote:
> 
> > Incidentally, your prejudiced remarks about Apple were (at best) on the
> > misleading side. Debian CUPS does not use Apple's repositories.
> 
> So I shouldn't be bothering Mike Sweet? The man that wrote cups? I've only 
> known Mike since the late 80's.

That is for you to decide when you have fully grasped the import of the
information I provided.

> OTOH, if you know a magic way to make it work driverless, lay it on me and 
> I'll create a 3rd and 4th profile to test it.

Normally I enjoy a challenge but, for now, I will pass. I am confident
you will achieve the printing setup you deserve without my intervention.

-- 
Brian.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Gene Heskett]

On Tue, 14 Dec, 2021 at 11:00 AM, David Wright  wrote:
 

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:

> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
> 
> Cheers, Gene

What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)

Cheers,
David.

PM=Personally addressed, directly to you.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Curt]

On 2021-12-14, David Wright  wrote:
> On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
>> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
>> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
>> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
>> 
>> Cheers, Gene
>
> What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
> to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)

My guess is personal mail. But who's Andy?

> Cheers,
> David.
>
>


-- 

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[David Wright]

On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 (-0800), Gene Heskett wrote:

> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.
> 
> Cheers, Gene

What's a PM, and where is it? (There are too many meanings for me
to guess which one applies here, even while examining Andy's posts.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Gene Heskett]

On Tue, 14 Dec, 2021 at 4:00 AM, Andrei POPESCU  
wrote:
 

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Du, 12 dec 21, 11:14:37, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.

What happens if you just delete the address from To: and leave the list 
address only in Cc:?



Humm, now it works, thanks.


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Gene Heskett]

On Tue, 14 Dec, 2021 at 4:00 AM, Andrei POPESCU  
wrote:
 

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Du, 12 dec 21, 11:14:37, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.

What happens if you just delete the address from To: and leave the list 
address only in Cc:?


Tried that once, got complaints, doing it again.



Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 12 dec 21, 11:14:37, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> Andy, plz remove your PM when posting to debian-user, firefox makes
> it very difficult to put the list address as the To: without starting a new,
> blank msg. It puts the list in the Cc: box and will not copy/paste it 
> to the To: box w/o stripping at the @.

What happens if you just delete the address from To: and leave the list 
address only in Cc:?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Gene Heskett]

On Mon, 13 Dec, 2021 at 2:45 PM, Brian  wrote:
 

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Mon 13 Dec 2021 at 08:44:44 -0800, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec, 2021 at 9:35 AM, Brian 
> mailto:a...@cityscape.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>> Let's try a driverless network solution. OK with you? Please give the
>> output of 'driverleess'.
> 
> ipp://Brother%20MFC-J6920DW._ipp._tcp.local/
> 
> That's the crippled, incomplete, extremely slow version, USB-2 is many 

> times faster.

It is probably best we part company at this point. You have rejected my
direction of travel in advance of any help to be offered and do not want
to follow it.



Because its been tried several times and doesn't work. It was told to use the 

lower tray to duplex print a 19 page text file in landscape mode, but landscape
was the only order it recognized, it used the last 3 sheets of 50 cent a sheet
photo paper and 16 more sheets of copy paper I had to put in the upper tray,
single sided and took about 45 minutes. It should have followed orders and
done it in duplex, long edge binding, in a few seconds over 3 minutes.


> I finally got two versions of it's profile running yesterday by re running 
> the 
> 
> installer from brother, which downloaded and installed 2 of the 6 files, new 
> 
> and improved, as of Dec 6th, and except for the speed, a bit slower than the
> stretch versions but tolerable. So duplex now works as does paper tray 
> selection.

Everything is under control. Try to keep it that way.

Incidentally, your prejudiced remarks about Apple were (at best) on the
misleading side. Debian CUPS does not use Apple's repositories.



So I shouldn't be bothering Mike Sweet? The man that wrote cups? I've only 

known Mike since the late 80's.


OTOH, if you know a magic way to make it work driverless, lay it on me and 

I'll create a 3rd and 4th profile to test it.


Thanks & Cheers, Gene

-- 
Brian.

.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Brian]

On Mon 13 Dec 2021 at 08:44:44 -0800, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec, 2021 at 9:35 AM, Brian  wrote:
> 
>> Let's try a driverless network solution. OK with you? Please give the
>> output of 'driverleess'.
> 
> ipp://Brother%20MFC-J6920DW._ipp._tcp.local/
> 
> That's the crippled, incomplete, extremely slow version, USB-2 is many times 
> faster.

It is probably best we part company at this point. You have rejected my
direction of travel in advance of any help to be offered and do not want
to follow it.

> I finally got two versions of it's profile running yesterday by re running 
> the 
> 
> installer from brother, which downloaded and installed 2 of the 6 files, new 
> 
> and improved, as of Dec 6th, and except for the speed, a bit slower than the
> stretch versions but tolerable. So duplex now works as does paper tray 
> selection.

Everything is under control. Try to keep it that way.

Incidentally, your prejudiced remarks about Apple were (at best) on the
misleading side. Debian CUPS does not use Apple's repositories.

-- 
Brian.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Gene Heskett]

On Mon, 13 Dec, 2021 at 9:35 AM, Brian  wrote:
 

To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 -0800, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I have reconfigured one of the 3 copies cups discovered for ipp-Everywhere
> getting this in the printer menu:
> 
> 
> Description:Brother MFC-J6920DW duplex copy Location:coyote.coyote.den 
> Driver:MFC-J6920DW - IPP Everywhere (color, 2-sided printing)
> Connection:ipp://Brother%20MFC-J6920DW._ipp._tcp.local/ 
> Defaults:job-sheets=none, none
> media=na_letter_8.5x11in
> sides=two-sided-long-edge
> 
> but when I goto the maintenance tab an try to print a test page, cups
> does not accept me as user and my passwd that works for logins and
> sudo on a rootless system. All I can do is cancel. This is a VERY OLD
> problem I've been saddled with since at least wheezy. I assume from
> the tcp.local above its trying to use the printers net address, not its
> usb. Both are connected but the net connection is slower than the usb.
> Or I should say that was on stretch. This is bullseye now.
> 
> The brother drivers, updated for bullseye are installed but don't work 
> at all well. no duplex and about 15x slower than stretches install.

Let's try a driverless network solution. OK with you? Please give the
output of 'driverleess'.


ipp://Brother%20MFC-J6920DW._ipp._tcp.local/



That's the crippled, incomplete, extremely slow version, USB-2 is many times 
faster.


I finally got two versions of it's profile running yesterday by re running the 

installer from brother, which downloaded and installed 2 of the 6 files, new 

and improved, as of Dec 6th, and except for the speed, a bit slower than the
stretch versions but tolerable. So duplex now works as does paper tray 
selection.


Contrary to your opinion, brother does support their products on linux. All it 

takes is a decently descriptive message to support.



-- 
Brian.

.

Re: cups problems in bullseye

[Brian]

On Sun 12 Dec 2021 at 11:14:37 -0800, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I have reconfigured one of the 3 copies cups discovered for ipp-Everywhere
> getting this in the printer menu:
> 
> 
> Description:Brother MFC-J6920DW duplex copy Location:coyote.coyote.den 
> Driver:MFC-J6920DW - IPP Everywhere (color, 2-sided printing)
> Connection:ipp://Brother%20MFC-J6920DW._ipp._tcp.local/ 
> Defaults:job-sheets=none, none
> media=na_letter_8.5x11in
> sides=two-sided-long-edge
> 
> but when I goto the maintenance tab an try to print a test page, cups
> does not accept me as user and my passwd that works for logins and
> sudo on a rootless system. All I can do is cancel. This is a VERY OLD
> problem I've been saddled with since at least wheezy. I assume from
> the tcp.local above its trying to use the printers net address, not its
> usb. Both are connected but the net connection is slower than the usb.
> Or I should say that was on stretch. This is bullseye now.
> 
> The brother drivers, updated for bullseye are installed but don't work 
> at all well. no duplex and about 15x slower than stretches install.

Let's try a driverless network solution. OK with you? Please give the
output of 'driverleess'.

-- 
Brian.