Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 04 August 2019 11:44:23 David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 04 Aug 2019 at 19:02:01 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
> > On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > >>> [sudo] password for gene:
> > >>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > >>> gene@picnc:~$
> > >>
> > >> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
> > >
> > > Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked
> > > the only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!
> >
> > Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
> > names, and you gave it zero :-)
>
> May I agree with you, and say that the earlier comment disappoints me.
>
> A lot of linux man pages are written by people who have English as a
> second language (or even a third, fourth …), so we native English
> speakers ought to think ourselves lucky and privileged to have all the
> documentation primarily available in our own language. And if you're
> going to criticise, criticise constructively.
>
This is true, David. As a native English speaker, I tend to forget that. 
And I find I need reminded that 90% of the planets population has had to 
learn my language, and I should thank them more often for doing so. I am 
blessed that others have made the effort, thank you, a lot.

And that can lead to stronger responses when my native tongue gets 
mangled.  My apologies for that too.

> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Sun 04 Aug 2019 at 19:02:01 (+1200), Richard Hector wrote:
> On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> >>> [sudo] password for gene:
> >>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> >>> gene@picnc:~$
> >> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
> >>
> > Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
> > only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!
> 
> Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
> names, and you gave it zero :-)

May I agree with you, and say that the earlier comment disappoints me.

A lot of linux man pages are written by people who have English as a
second language (or even a third, fourth …), so we native English
speakers ought to think ourselves lucky and privileged to have all the
documentation primarily available in our own language. And if you're
going to criticise, criticise constructively.

Cheers,
David.

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Curt]

On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> But seat0-greeter.log(s) are all this:
> ** Message: 13:37:04.194: Starting lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.6 (Dec 27 
> 2018, 16:15:47)
> ** Message: 13:37:04.203: [Configuration] Reading 
> file: /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/01_debian.conf
> ** Message: 13:37:04.204: [Configuration] Reading 
> file: /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf

> ** (lightdm-gtk-greeter:424): WARNING **: 13:37:06.062: [PIDs] Failed to 
> execute command: upstart

I don't know what upstart is exactly, but I don't believe it's the
problem here.

You might look in /var/log/auth.log for other clues.

One kubuntu guy with a similar symptomatology removed (for safety's sake
you can just move the files out of the way by renaming them)

 .Xauthority .ICEauthority .cache

then 

 dpkg-reconfigured lightdm
   xfce4 (actually, in his case, kubuntu)

and rebooted.

Probably couldn't hurt. But might not help.

You could try another display manager if all else fails, or, as I see
suggested elsewhere (the ineluctable "just use Mutt" reflex) startx.

> (lightdm-gtk-greeter:424): Gtk-WARNING **: 13:37:10.850: Drawing a gadget 
> with negative dimensions. Did you forget to allocate a size? (node 
> menubar owner GreeterMenuBar)

I get this spam, too, but it's nothing but that.
-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Richard Hector]

On 4/08/19 2:46 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
>>> [sudo] password for gene:
>>> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
>>> gene@picnc:~$
>> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
>>
> Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
> only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!

Slightly odd wording, but the correct message - it needs one or two
names, and you gave it zero :-)

Richard



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 14:45:46 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 12:32:39 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU 
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo
> > > > > > > > > > > now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action
> > > > > > > > > > > on the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4".
> > > > > > > > > > > reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and
> > > > > > > > > > > buildbot, cups". reboot, worked once, login
> > > > > > > > > > > normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > > > > > > > > > > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and
> > > > > > > > > > > powered up again. Can't login, passwd no good. 
> > > > > > > > > > > Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > > > > > passwd no good.
>
> […]
>
> > > > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you
> > > > > > > revert from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so
> > > > > > > little about DEs that I don't know if that's possible.
> > > > > > > What does a DM buy you?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM
> > > > > do for you?
> > > > >
> > > > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of
> > > > > > > > encrypting passwds. Is it possible that something in
> > > > > > > > xfce4 has changed to the new method, but the passwd in
> > > > > > > > the passwd file was encrypted with the older method, and
> > > > > > > > that an ssh login is still useing the old method, so I
> > > > > > > > can login remotely only? So possibly it might be fixed
> > > > > > > > by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > > > > > upgrade:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all
> > > > > > 4 machines.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that
> > > > > could have been chosen.
>
> […]
>
> > > > > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has
> > > > > > > > not caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it
> > > > > > > > did work several times, then stopped.  Completely
> > > > > > > > changing my passwd from this ssh login worked, I backed
> > > > > > > > out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is
> > > > > > > > still rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it
> > > > > > > > back. ?? What library does that? Is there a version jump
> > > > > > > > that arm did, but got miss installed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing
> > > > > > > (which might be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> > > > >
> > > > > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said
> > > > > person mentioned it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > > > > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd
> > > > > passwords. I can recall things being written about VM here,
> > > > > but was it Virtual Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not
> > > > > having used any VM, my memory doesn't distinguish between
> > > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years.
> > > > However I just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit
> > > > out this: oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> > > > /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > > /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > > /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > >
> > > > Could one of those be sc

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 12:32:39 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action on
> > > > > > > > > > the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot,
> > > > > > > > > > works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I
> > > > > > > > > > plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff
> > > > > > > > > > on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > > > > > > > > > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try
> > > > > > > > > > again several times, passwd no good.
[…]
> > > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert
> > > > > > from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about
> > > > > > DEs that I don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy
> > > > > > you?
> > > > >
> > > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do
> > > > for you?
> > > >
> > > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed
> > > > > > > to the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was
> > > > > > > encrypted with the older method, and that an ssh login is
> > > > > > > still useing the old method, so I can login remotely only?
> > > > > > > So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade?
> > > > > > > Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > > >
> > > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4
> > > > > machines.
> > > >
> > > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could
> > > > have been chosen.
[…]
> > > > > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd
> > > > > > > from this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it,
> > > > > > > worked as expected from ssh, but is still rejected from its
> > > > > > > own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library does
> > > > > > > that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss
> > > > > > > installed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like
> > > > > > LUKS1/LUKS2 rather than any change in passwd hashing (which
> > > > > > might be why you wrote "encrypting").
> > > > >
> > > > > Never touched LUKS, any version.
> > > >
> > > > In which case, can you quote your reference for where said person
> > > > mentioned it.
> > > >
> > > > Whether you've *used* LUKS is irrelevant. You might still have
> > > > *heard something* about it, and thought it was about passwd
> > > > passwords. I can recall things being written about VM here, but
> > > > was it Virtual Box, vbox, qemu, kvm, virt-manager—not having used
> > > > any VM, my memory doesn't distinguish between them.
> > >
> > > LUKS shouldn't matter David, I've never used it in 20 years. However
> > >  I just installed locate, updatedb, the locate luks spit out this:
> > > oot@picnc:~# locate luks
> > > /boot/efi/boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > /boot/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > > /usr/lib/grub/arm64-efi/luks.mod
> > >
> > > Could one of those be screwing with me?
> >
> > No. I'm trying to eliminate LUKS from the conversation. What would be
> > more useful is to discover what you were talking about when you wrote
> > "Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds."
> > Or am I to spike it, along with
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2

Re: odd passwd problem.

[tomas]

On Sat, Aug 03, 2019 at 10:32:02AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:

[...]

> > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.

Yep. In theory, there's no "way back" from the hash to the
password. In practice, though...

> And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here, and the 
> shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.

That's the salt. To make "reverse lookup" attacks more difficult
for "typical" passwords, some salt is added: a small random prefix,
which is typically included in the hashed password info (it better
had, otherwise you can't check the password)

Here's a typical shadow entry (somewhat modified and very much
shortened, to protect the innocent ;-)

  username:$6$lU7moTub$AmalgHken:18080:0:9:7:::
 ^  ^ ^--- ^
 |  | ||  other stuff
 |  | |hash of (salt + password) (here shortened)
 |  | salt
 |  hash algorithm (6 = sha512)
 user name

See man crypt(3) for details (the crypt chapter in libc's info is more
informative). The actual representation as characters is most probably
base64 encoded.

In short, yes, assuming your random number generator isn't broken,
you'll get a different salt every round and thus a different password
hash. So we hope :-)

Cheers
-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:56:38 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I
> > > > > > > > > thought I was selecting xfce4, so my first action on
> > > > > > > > > the reboot was to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot,
> > > > > > > > > works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I
> > > > > > > > > plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff
> > > > > > > > > on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > > > > > > > > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try
> > > > > > > > > again several times, passwd no good.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current
> > > > > > > > to mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you
> > > > > > > > could try removing it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could
> > > > > > > > try typing your password in the username field, to make
> > > > > > > > sure the keyboard works as expected. Just don't press
> > > > > > > > enter so the password is not logged ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I
> > > > > wrote my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert
> > > > > from a DM to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about
> > > > > DEs that I don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy
> > > > > you?
> > > >
> > > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > >
> > > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do
> > > for you?
> > >
> > > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> > >
> > > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed
> > > > > > to the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was
> > > > > > encrypted with the older method, and that an ssh login is
> > > > > > still useing the old method, so I can login remotely only?
> > > > > > So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade?
> > > > > > Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> > > > >
> > > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > > >
> > > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines
> > > > here, and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4
> > > > machines.
> > >
> > > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could
> > > have been chosen.
> > >
> > > > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > > > >
> > > > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> > > >
> > > > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the
> > > > rights for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy
> > > > them to someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as
> > > > me, specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the
> > > > cat5 to someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can
> > > > attach or include it.
> > >
> > > I don'

Re: odd passwd problem.

[mick crane]

On 2019-08-03 17:22, Gene Heskett wrote:
 to run.


When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's
called) Ctrl Alt F key ?
If so then is something about the display manager ?


ctrl+alt+F8, yes, so I opened a term and did an xset -dpms.
Whats the name of that lightdm config editor.


Pass, I don't do this very often.
could try another DM ?
https://itsfoss.com/switch-gdm-and-lightdm-in-ubuntu-14-04/

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:46:30 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-03 16:31, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:
> >> On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>   Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> >> I would probably add another user and see if they have same
> >> >> problem on the local machine.
> >> >>
> >> >> mick
> >> >
> >> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> >> > who is
> >> > a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll
> >> > use that as a guinea pig.
> >> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >> >
> >> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> >> > [sudo] password for gene:
> >> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> >> > gene@picnc:~$
> >> >
> >> > WTH?
> >>
> >> I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
> >> different. Can always delete them.
> >
> > That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar
> > is a
> > one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken.
> > Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of
> > its
> > misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and 
> > can do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So
> > I broke
> > down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is
> > mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken
> > POC. Failed of course.
> >
> > But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log
> > back
> > in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's
> > login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming
> > alive
> > at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?
> >
> > If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure
> > don't need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might
> > need an xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even
> > if, like wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes
> > over 28 hours
> > to run.
>
> When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's
> called) Ctrl Alt F key ?
> If so then is something about the display manager ?

ctrl+alt+F8, yes, so I opened a term and did an xset -dpms.
Whats the name of that lightdm config editor.

Cheers Mick, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 11:38:27 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:
> > On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I
> > > > > > > > was selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was
> > > > > > > > to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged
> > > > > > > > in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll
> > > > > > > > need later and powered up again. Can't login, passwd no
> > > > > > > > good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > > passwd no good.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to
> > > > > > > mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try
> > > > > > > removing it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > > >
> > > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote
> > > > my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM
> > > > to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I
> > > > don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> > >
> > > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> >
> > Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for
> > you?
> >
> > I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
> >
> > > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to
> > > > > the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted
> > > > > with the older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the
> > > > > old method, so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might
> > > > > be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > > upgrade:
> > > >
> > > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> > >
> > > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here,
> > > and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.
> >
> > That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
> > been chosen.
> >
> > > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > > >
> > > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > > >
> > > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > > >
> > > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> > >
> > > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights
> > > for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to
> > > someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me,
> > > specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to
> > > someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can attach or
> > > include it.
> >
> > I don't understand any of that.
> >
> > $ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
> > $
> >
> > But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
> > as you just did, above, for apt update.
> >
> > > > > Or maybe its ssh 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[mick crane]

On 2019-08-03 16:31, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:


On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
  Cheers, Gene Heskett

>> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem
>> on the local machine.
>>
>> mick
>
> I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> who is
> a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
> that as a guinea pig.
> Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
>
> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> [sudo] password for gene:
> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> gene@picnc:~$
>
> WTH?

I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
different. Can always delete them.


That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar is 
a

one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken.
Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of 
its

misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and  can
do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So I 
broke

down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is
mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken POC.
Failed of course.

But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log 
back

in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's
login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming 
alive

at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?

If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure don't
need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might need an
xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even if, like
wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes over 28 
hours

to run.



When it logs you out can you log in at another screen (whatever it's 
called) Ctrl Alt F key ?

If so then is something about the display manager ?


--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 11:06:27 David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I
> > > > > > > was selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was
> > > > > > > to "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot,
> > > > > > > cups". reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged
> > > > > > > in a 120GB ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll
> > > > > > > need later and powered up again. Can't login, passwd no
> > > > > > > good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several times,
> > > > > > > passwd no good.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to
> > > > > > mess with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try
> > > > > > removing it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > > >
> > > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> > >
> > > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote
> > > my first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM
> > > to an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I
> > > don't know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> >
> > A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
>
> Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for
> you?
>
> I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.
>
> > > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting
> > > > passwds. Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to
> > > > the new method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted
> > > > with the older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the
> > > > old method, so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might
> > > > be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to
> > > > upgrade:
> > >
> > > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> >
> > And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here,
> > and the shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.
>
> That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
> been chosen.
>
> > > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > > >
> > > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease
> > > > [46.8 kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > > buster/updates/main Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > > Building dependency tree
> > > > Reading state information... Done
> > > > All packages are up to date.
> > > > gene@picnc:~$
> > > >
> > > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> > >
> > > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> >
> > but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights
> > for kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to
> > someplace neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me,
> > specifically denies root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to
> > someplace in /home/gene on this machine, then I can attach or
> > include it.
>
> I don't understand any of that.
>
> $ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
> $
>
> But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
> as you just did, above, for apt update.
>
> > > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not
> > > > caught up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work
> > > > several times, then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from
> > > > this ssh login worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as
> > > > expected from ss

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:35:17 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
>   Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> >> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem
> >> on the local machine.
> >>
> >> mick
> >
> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> > who is
> > a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
> > that as a guinea pig.
> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >
> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > [sudo] password for gene:
> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > gene@picnc:~$
> >
> > WTH?
>
> I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is
> different. Can always delete them.

That will take a real file manager, and theres only one, mc. thunar is a 
one armed, one legged paper hanger, and the arm it has is broken. 
Somebody should either give it some two pane tools, or put it out of its 
misery. Mc has the ncurses interface, butt ugly.  But it runs and  can 
do its job including from a text login on vt#roll of the die. So I broke 
down and installed mc mc-data. And the only diff in the home dirs is 
mine has a thunar entry. I tried to do something with that broken POC. 
Failed of course.

But I just went back out and that xsession has died, and I can't log back 
in.  Or maybe its the screen blanker kicking in and using lightdm's 
login to unblank ?  If the blanker is locking it instead of coming alive 
at a keypress or a jiggled mouse, how the h--- do I get rid of that?

If thats the case, I have more than enough paranoia, and I sure don't 
need a paranoid machine, one that when doing its job might need an 
xset -dpms so the job can be monitored until its done even if, like 
wheezy running my mill, a 70 line file of gcode text takes over 28 hours 
to run.

Thanks Mick.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Sat 03 Aug 2019 at 10:32:02 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > > > > > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > > > > > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > > workspaces.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups".
> > > > > > reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB
> > > > > > ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and
> > > > > > powered up again. Can't login, passwd no good.  Dbl check,
> > > > > > caps lock off, try again several times, passwd no good.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess
> > > > > with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing
> > > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > > >
> > > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > > password is not logged ;)
> > > >
> > > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> > >
> > > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
> >
> > Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote my
> > first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM to
> > an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I don't
> > know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
> >
> A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.

Isn't that provided by the DE. What specifically does the DM do for you?

I run X and a WM, but I don't use them to login. Just a VC.

> > > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds.
> > > Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to the new
> > > method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted with the
> > > older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the old method,
> > > so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might be fixed by an
> > > apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
> >
> > AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
> And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here, and the 
> shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.

That's because there are 4096 different values of salt that could have
been chosen.

> > > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> > >
> > > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > > [sudo] password for gene:
> > > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [46.8
> > > kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > > arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > > Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > > Reading package lists... Done
> > > Building dependency tree
> > > Reading state information... Done
> > > All packages are up to date.
> > > gene@picnc:~$
> > >
> > > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
> >
> > Posting your sources.list would be more typical.
> 
> but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights for 
> kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to someplace 
> neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me, specifically denies 
> root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to someplace in /home/gene 
> on this machine, then I can attach or include it.

I don't understand any of that.

$ ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 981 Jan 20  2018 /etc/apt/sources.list
$ 

But in any case, you can cat it and then copy/paste it,
as you just did, above, for apt update.

> > > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught
> > > up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times,
> > > then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login
> > > worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but
> > > is still rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ??
> > > What library does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but
> > > got miss installed?
> >
> > ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
> >
> > But are you're sure you're not thinking

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:12:59 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Sb, 03 aug 19, 09:57:27, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:
> > > I would probably add another user and see if they have same
> > > problem on the local machine.
> >
> > I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda
> > who is a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So
> > I'll use that as a guinea pig.
>
> I wouldn't mess with users needed by packages. Why not just create a
> 'test' user or something?
>
> > Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> >
> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> > [sudo] password for gene:
> > adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> > gene@picnc:~$
>
> I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)
>
Ac the manpage, correct. And I didn't give it a name, so it picked the 
only error answer it had. Really helpfull, NOT!

So I repeated from here, adding a "test" user, went out and tried it 
there, worked, once, now we wait 15 minutes to see if it times out.
test of course doesn't have sudo rights, so is of questionable utility.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei
Thanks Andrei

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[mick crane]

On 2019-08-03 14:57, Gene Heskett wrote:
 Cheers, Gene Heskett


I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
the local machine.

mick


I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who 
is

a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use
that as a guinea pig.
Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:

gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
[sudo] password for gene:
adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
gene@picnc:~$

WTH?


I dunno, if they have no problems might be able to see what is 
different. Can always delete them.


--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 10:03:18 David Wright wrote:

> On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > > >
> > > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > > >
> > > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > > > > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > > > > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4
> > > > > workspaces.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups".
> > > > > reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB
> > > > > ssd which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and
> > > > > powered up again. Can't login, passwd no good.  Dbl check,
> > > > > caps lock off, try again several times, passwd no good.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess
> > > > with your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing
> > > > it.
> > >
> > > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> > >
> > > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try
> > > > typing your password in the username field, to make sure the
> > > > keyboard works as expected. Just don't press enter so the
> > > > password is not logged ;)
> > >
> > > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> >
> > And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.
>
> Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote my
> first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM to
> an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I don't
> know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?
>
A nice gui with lots of workspaces. Menu's to run stuff.
> > Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds.
> > Is it possible that something in xfce4 has changed to the new
> > method, but the passwd in the passwd file was encrypted with the
> > older method, and that an ssh login is still useing the old method,
> > so I can login remotely only? So possibly it might be fixed by an
> > apt update/upgrade? Unforch, there is nothing to upgrade:
>
> AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.
And apparently each hash is unique? I've checked 4 machines here, and the 
shadow files entry for me is different on all 4 machines.

> > copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> >
> > gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> > [sudo] password for gene:
> > Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates
> > InRelease [39.1 kB]
> > Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> > Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [46.8
> > kB] Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security
> > buster/updates/main Sources [25.9 kB]
> > Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> > Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main
> > Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> > Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> > Reading package lists... Done
> > Building dependency tree
> > Reading state information... Done
> > All packages are up to date.
> > gene@picnc:~$
> >
> > But is that the proper list of repo's to query?
>
> Posting your sources.list would be more typical.

but much more difficult to copy and chown to get it in the rights for 
kmail-trinity to attach or include. I have to copy them to someplace 
neutral, chown the perms, as my sshnet runs as me, specifically denies 
root, so once I can copy it across the cat5 to someplace in /home/gene 
on this machine, then I can attach or include it.

> > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught
> > up. I haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times,
> > then stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login
> > worked, I backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but
> > is still rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ??
> > What library does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but
> > got miss installed?
>
> ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.
>
> But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like LUKS1/LUKS2
> rather than any change in passwd hashing (which might be why you wrote
> "encrypting").

Never touched LUKS, any version.
> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers David, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 09:45:49 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 01 Aug 2019 at 16:51:35 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 August 2019 08:01:40 Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
> > > My experience for many years has been that the first console is
> > > especially a stinker about having a super fast keystroke repeat
> > > setting. We can see it visually when typing in normal commands but
> > > would have no idea it's occurring for passwords where there's no
> > > visual cue as to what's occurring.
> >
> > Back in jessie days, it did not set the keyboard repeat at boot, so
> > the first thing was to call up that util and set the repeat down
> > from around 1000 to 15 or 20, then it worked fine until the next
> > reboot, but I've seen nothing like that on stretch by raspian.
>
> Just put
> @reboot   /sbin/kbdrate -r 8 -d 500 -s
> into /root/crontab and then type
> ~# crontab crontab
>
That would have been useful when it was running 
raspian jessie, but I've now an sd card thats booting raspian stretch, 
doesn't suffer from that, and which runs the machine smoother but still 
suffers from the cold molasses video. They have now updated to buster, 
twice, the second time incorporating new drivers from broadcom that 
speed the video up by actually using the broadcom video hardware. Full 
screen glxgears runs at 19 fps instead of 1.6 fps  using the 
framebuffer.  And I need that AND at least a fully pre-emptible kernel.

> > > Not too long ago, I saw a User asking about the ability to add a
> > > visual aid, e.g. those classic asterisks, to a password entry
> > > field that currently just sat there blank. The ability to make
> > > that User CHOICE would sure come in handy for at least that
> > > initial login console, depending on one's accessibility needs.
> > > Persons with disabilities related to mobility, dexterity would
> > > potentially benefit the most.
> >
> > Absolutely.
> >
> > > Afterthought.. That option may currently exist. The above just
> > > reflects that I haven't tripped over it yet. :)
> >
> > Me either Cindy.  Sigh.
>
> Possibly myself, if you're thinking of:
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/06/msg00585.html

Thats the best possibility of what I recall.

> But that was really about encryption passphrases rather than login
> passwords.

But the useage is not via the same lib?

> Cheers,
> David.

Thanks David.  See my other reply to Curt, its locked me out again, and 
wont even let me add another user to test with. I've never heard of an 
xsession timing out in 10 minutes, but...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Sb, 03 aug 19, 09:57:27, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:
> >
> > I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
> > the local machine.
> 
> I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who is 
> a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use 
> that as a guinea pig.

I wouldn't mess with users needed by packages. Why not just create a 
'test' user or something?

> Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:
> 
> gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
> [sudo] password for gene:
> adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
> gene@picnc:~$  

I'm guessing 'adduser' needs at least a name for the new user ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Fri 02 Aug 2019 at 22:41:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > > >
> > > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > > >
> > > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > > > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > > > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > > >
> > > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups".
> > > > reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd
> > > > which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered
> > > > up again. Can't login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off,
> > > > try again several times, passwd no good.
> > >
> > > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess with
> > > your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing it.
> >
> > Its a 5 amp switcher.
> >
> > > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try typing
> > > your password in the username field, to make sure the keyboard works
> > > as expected. Just don't press enter so the password is not logged ;)
> >
> > I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
> 
> And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.

Well, I didn't realise you were using a DM to login when I wrote my
first reply. As with the SSD, I would have you revert from a DM to
an ordinary VC login. But I know so little about DEs that I don't
know if that's possible. What does a DM buy you?

> Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds. Is it 
> possible that something in xfce4 has changed to the new method, but the 
> passwd in the passwd file was encrypted with the older method, and that 
> an ssh login is still useing the old method, so I can login remotely 
> only? So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, 
> there is nothing to upgrade:

AIUI passwords are not encrypted, they're hashed.

> copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.
> 
> gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
> [sudo] password for gene:
> Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease 
> [39.1 kB]
> Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
> Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [46.8 kB]
> Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
> Sources [25.9 kB]
> Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
> arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
> Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
> Translation-en [28.9 kB]
> Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
> Reading package lists... Done
> Building dependency tree
> Reading state information... Done
> All packages are up to date.
> gene@picnc:~$
> 
> But is that the proper list of repo's to query?

Posting your sources.list would be more typical.

> Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught up. I 
> haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times, then 
> stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login worked, I 
> backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is still 
> rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library 
> does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss installed?

ssh has -v (up to 3 times) for monitoring its behaviour.

But are you're sure you're not thinking of something like LUKS1/LUKS2
rather than any change in passwd hashing (which might be why you wrote
"encrypting").

Cheers,
David.

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 07:08:08 mick crane wrote:

> On 2019-08-01 11:28, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> >
> > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> >
> > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> >
> > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> > worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> > times, passwd no good.
> >
> > Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> > running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> > passwd fails.
> >
> > Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo
> > -i works.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on
> the local machine.
>
> mick

I'd thought of that but not tried it yet. I'll need a user amanda who is 
a member of group backup for the backup program amanda.  So I'll use 
that as a guinea pig.
Or will I? copy/paste from konsole logged in as gene:

gene@picnc:~$ sudo adduser
[sudo] password for gene:
adduser: Only one or two names allowed.
gene@picnc:~$  

WTH?

Thanks Mick Crane.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 06:49:41 Curt wrote:

> On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > [+3038.26s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Authentication complete with
> > return value 7: Authentication failure
>
> Check permissions on '~.Xauthority' file maybe (think it should be
> gene:gene). Maybe that file is 'stale' (whatever that might mean).
> Maybe you could move it out of the way and see if you can log in then.
>
> curty@einstein:~$ ls -l .Xauthority
> -rw--- 1 curty curty 102 Aug  3 09:17 .Xauthority

rm'd it.

> I'm a lightdm user myself.
>
> You might also try 'dpkg-reconfigure lightdm' (which might overwrite a
> corrupted config with something fresh).

Took several seconds to sudo it, no errors.
>
> Stabs in the dark. You enter username/password and it says: "Incorrect
> password. Try again, Gene"?
"incorrect password, please try again"

So I clicked back in the username box, and verified my pw as displayed 
there, then back to geneTAB, put in pw againENTER, incorrect yadda
so I refreshed the pw again, but rather than an ENTER, picked up the 
mouse and clicked the login button, worked. WTH? I've been using enter 
for 20 years. If this is how it works NOW, its a bug. That also has been 
tried, several times, always failed. This is so crazy I'm going to 
reboot it and try again. BRB.

And this is crazier yet, I had a ready to work xfce4 screen with 4 
workspaces when I walked away, stopping for about a minute in front of 
another machine which has been digging a woodruff key socket in the side 
of a Rockwell 60C shaft, which its been doing by EDM since yesterday 
mid-morning, part of the big lathe this pi is running, long enough to 
note that using EDM, I've burnt more off the end of the carbide tool 
doing the erosion than the slot is deep. 35 thou to go, but the slot 
needs another 100 thou yet.

Then came back in here and typed the above.  And after I said BRB, I 
refilled my morning coffee and walked back out to be greeted by a blank 
screen with the login greeter asking for my pw, tried twice, once with 
an enter, once with a mouse click on the login button, both failed, 
incorrect passwd.

Next?

Thanks Curt.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Thu 01 Aug 2019 at 16:51:35 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 01 August 2019 08:01:40 Cindy Sue Causey wrote:
> > My experience for many years has been that the first console is
> > especially a stinker about having a super fast keystroke repeat
> > setting. We can see it visually when typing in normal commands but
> > would have no idea it's occurring for passwords where there's no
> > visual cue as to what's occurring.
> >
> Back in jessie days, it did not set the keyboard repeat at boot, so the 
> first thing was to call up that util and set the repeat down from around 
> 1000 to 15 or 20, then it worked fine until the next reboot, but I've 
> seen nothing like that on stretch by raspian.

Just put
@reboot   /sbin/kbdrate -r 8 -d 500 -s
into /root/crontab and then type
~# crontab crontab

> > Not too long ago, I saw a User asking about the ability to add a
> > visual aid, e.g. those classic asterisks, to a password entry field
> > that currently just sat there blank. The ability to make that User
> > CHOICE would sure come in handy for at least that initial login
> > console, depending on one's accessibility needs. Persons with
> > disabilities related to mobility, dexterity would potentially benefit
> > the most.
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> > Afterthought.. That option may currently exist. The above just
> > reflects that I haven't tripped over it yet. :)
> >
> Me either Cindy.  Sigh.

Possibly myself, if you're thinking of:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2019/06/msg00585.html

But that was really about encryption passphrases rather than login passwords.

Cheers,
David.

Re: odd passwd problem.

[mick crane]

On 2019-08-01 11:28, Gene Heskett wrote:

Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;

No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.

netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was selecting
xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
"sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.

Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
times, passwd no good.

Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
passwd fails.

Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo -i
works.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett




I would probably add another user and see if they have same problem on 
the local machine.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Curt]

On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> [+3038.26s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Authentication complete with return 
> value 7: Authentication failure

Check permissions on '~.Xauthority' file maybe (think it should be
gene:gene). Maybe that file is 'stale' (whatever that might mean). Maybe
you could move it out of the way and see if you can log in then.

curty@einstein:~$ ls -l .Xauthority 
-rw--- 1 curty curty 102 Aug  3 09:17 .Xauthority

I'm a lightdm user myself.

You might also try 'dpkg-reconfigure lightdm' (which might overwrite a
corrupted config with something fresh).

Stabs in the dark. You enter username/password and it says: "Incorrect
password. Try again, Gene"?

-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 05:58:49 Curt wrote:

> On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >> as well as the contents of
> >>
> >>  /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log
>
> What about the log?

Since the logs have been rotated, I find many stanza's of this in the 
lightdm.log.old

[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Greeter start authentication for  gene
[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Session pid=460: Sending SIGTERM
[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Started with service 'lightdm', 
username ' gene'
[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Session pid=460: Terminated with signal 15
[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Session: Failed during authentication
[+3030.13s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Session stopped
[+3030.16s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Got 1 message(s) from PAM
[+3030.16s] DEBUG: Prompt greeter with 1 message(s)
[+3035.97s] DEBUG: Continue authentication
[+3038.26s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Authentication complete with return 
value 7: Authentication failure
[+3038.26s] DEBUG: Authenticate result for user  gene: Authentication 
failure
[+3038.26s] DEBUG: Session pid=490: Exited with return value 1
[+3038.26s] DEBUG: Seat seat0: Session stopped
[+3038.27s] DEBUG: Greeter start authentication for  gene

> What happens exactly?
>
> >> might provide some clue.
Thanks Curt.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 03:55:32 Curt wrote:

> On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught
> > up. I
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg745969.ht
>ml
>
> You're using lightdm as a display manager (graphical login)?
>
> If so
>
>  sudo tail -f /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log
>
> as well as the contents of
>
>  /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log
>
> might provide some clue.
>
> > haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times, then
> > stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login worked,
> > I backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is still
> > rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What
> > library does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got
> > miss installed?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett

I should add that the login greeter looks complete and normal.
I could supply a pix but 2x problems, my camera outputs 4.5 megabyte 
jpg's, and it looks completely normal, until I hit return at the end of 
the pw, or click on the login button.

I trolled thru the /var/log/apt/history.log.1.gz, which of course starts 
with the netinstall stuff. The first thing I installed after discovering 
I had a text login, was xfce4 that pulled in several hundred 
dependencies.  Rebooted, had x login. Opened a konsole and did:
sudo apt install synaptic build-essential. That also pulled in at least 
100 dependencies.  Expected.

The reboot after that failed to accept my pw, and has been failing since. 
Those logs could be supplied but are locked down pretty tightly. I'd have 
to install mc and mc-data before I could copy them someplace where I 
could attach them to an email. But I'd druther not destroy the scene of 
the crime just yet.  You tell me... history.log.1.gz I was able to move 
with thunar. But while I did move the history to my home dir, where I 
should have been able to fetch it over sshnet mounts, the first use on 
picnc is no longer pi, but gene, and not even root can touch that 
mountpoint. Ahh, finally got it. Attached. Now if the server doesn't 
strip it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


history.log.1.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Curt]

On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> as well as the contents of
>>
>>  /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log

What about the log?

What happens exactly?

>> might provide some clue.


-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 03 August 2019 03:55:32 Curt wrote:

> On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught
> > up. I
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg745969.ht
>ml
>
> You're using lightdm as a display manager (graphical login)?
>
> If so
>
>  sudo tail -f /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log
>
No such file. ls -l of that dir:
root@picnc:/var/log/lightdm# ls -l
total 900
-rw--- 1 root root   3686 Aug  1 13:37 lightdm.log
-rw--- 1 root root  12377 Aug  1 13:36 lightdm.log.old
-rw--- 1 root root 407863 Aug  3 05:05 seat0-greeter.log
-rw--- 1 root root 472719 Aug  1 13:36 seat0-greeter.log.old
-rw--- 1 root root889 Aug  1 13:36 x-0.log
-rw--- 1 root root948 Aug  1 13:36 x-0.log.old

But seat0-greeter.log(s) are all this:
** Message: 13:37:04.194: Starting lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.6 (Dec 27 
2018, 16:15:47)
** Message: 13:37:04.203: [Configuration] Reading 
file: /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/01_debian.conf
** Message: 13:37:04.204: [Configuration] Reading 
file: /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf

** (lightdm-gtk-greeter:424): WARNING **: 13:37:06.062: [PIDs] Failed to 
execute command: upstart

(lightdm-gtk-greeter:424): Gtk-WARNING **: 13:37:10.850: Drawing a gadget 
with negative dimensions. Did you forget to allocate a size? (node 
menubar owner GreeterMenuBar)

With this last line repeating at 1 minute intervals, almost half a meg of 
them. From then until now. Confirmed by a tail -f.

This looks like something that might be fixable, but I don't grok this 
process enough to do more than report.

> as well as the contents of
>
>  /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log
>
> might provide some clue.
>
> > haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times, then
> > stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login worked,
> > I backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is still
> > rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What
> > library does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got
> > miss installed?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Curt]

On 2019-08-03, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught up. I 

https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-user@lists.debian.org/msg745969.html

You're using lightdm as a display manager (graphical login)?

If so

 sudo tail -f /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log

as well as the contents of
 
 /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log

might provide some clue.

> haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times, then 
> stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login worked, I 
> backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is still 
> rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library 
> does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss installed?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


-- 
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” 
― Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 01 August 2019 16:58:46 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> > >
> > > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> > >
> > > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> > >
> > > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups".
> > > reboot, worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd
> > > which had a bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered
> > > up again. Can't login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off,
> > > try again several times, passwd no good.
> >
> > Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess with
> > your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing it.
>
> Its a 5 amp switcher.
>
> > Also, since you're not worried about security you could try typing
> > your password in the username field, to make sure the keyboard works
> > as expected. Just don't press enter so the password is not logged ;)
>
> I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.
>
> > Kind regards,
> > Andrei
>
> Thanks Andrei
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

And I am being ignored. So here is a thought.

Someone has recently mentioned a new method of encrypting passwds. Is it 
possible that something in xfce4 has changed to the new method, but the 
passwd in the passwd file was encrypted with the older method, and that 
an ssh login is still useing the old method, so I can login remotely 
only? So possibly it might be fixed by an apt update/upgrade? Unforch, 
there is nothing to upgrade:

copy/paste from a konsole logged into it.

gene@picnc:~$ sudo apt update
[sudo] password for gene:
Get:1 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates InRelease 
[39.1 kB]
Hit:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster InRelease
Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-updates InRelease [46.8 kB]
Get:4 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
Sources [25.9 kB]
Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
arm64 Packages [51.5 kB]
Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates/main 
Translation-en [28.9 kB]
Fetched 192 kB in 2s (81.9 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
gene@picnc:~$

But is that the proper list of repo's to query?

Or maybe its ssh thats using the new way, and xfce4 has not caught up. I 
haven't a clue whats changed, but it did work several times, then 
stopped.  Completely changing my passwd from this ssh login worked, I 
backed out and tried it, worked as expected from ssh, but is still 
rejected from its own keyboard, so I changed it back. ?? What library 
does that? Is there a version jump that arm did, but got miss installed?

Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 01 August 2019 10:20:57 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> >
> > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> >
> > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> >
> > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> > worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> > times, passwd no good.
>
> Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess with
> your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing it.
>
Its a 5 amp switcher.

> Also, since you're not worried about security you could try typing
> your password in the username field, to make sure the keyboard works
> as expected. Just don't press enter so the password is not logged ;)

I've done that too, its displaying exactly what I typed.

> Kind regards,
> Andrei

Thanks Andrei

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 01 August 2019 09:45:42 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 01 Aug 2019 at 06:28:17 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
>
> … about which I know nothing. (A physicist once showed me an original
> pi in the pub, I think.)
>
> > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> >
> > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> >
> > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> > worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> > times, passwd no good.
> >
> > Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> > running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> > passwd fails.
> >
> > Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo
> > -i works.
>
> My first action would be to revert the change: remove the SSD.

I've also tried that, no help.

> I'm assuming that typing the username ± Caps behaves normally.

Seems to act normally.

> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 01 August 2019 08:01:40 Cindy Sue Causey wrote:

> On 8/1/19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> >
> > No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> >
> > netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was
> > selecting xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> > "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> >
> > Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> > worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> > bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> > login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> > times, passwd no good.
> >
> > Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> > running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> > passwd fails.
> >
> > Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo
> > -i works.
>
> Hi, Gene.. Are you logging in from a terminal/console interface or
> graphical GUI?
>
> If it's console... is there any chance your keyboard might be
> sticking, even if for only an extra nanosecond too long?

I thought of that, and tried very quick pecks so keyboard repeat wouldn't 
have time to kick in, didn't  help. At the machines own keyboard it 
didn't help. Thats a lightdm login I believe, where from here its ssh.

I just tried resetting it to a trash but long word from here, login 
worked from here in house, but not at the machine, then changed it back 
from here in the house, works from here but not at the machines own 
keyboard and mouse.

I think I've found a bug! But what package do I blame it on?

This is the 5th net-install I've done that has upchucked for something at 
about the 6th or 7nth reboot as I'm building it up to replace a raspian 
stretch install with very slow video.

> My experience for many years has been that the first console is
> especially a stinker about having a super fast keystroke repeat
> setting. We can see it visually when typing in normal commands but
> would have no idea it's occurring for passwords where there's no
> visual cue as to what's occurring.
>
Back in jessie days, it did not set the keyboard repeat at boot, so the 
first thing was to call up that util and set the repeat down from around 
1000 to 15 or 20, then it worked fine until the next reboot, but I've 
seen nothing like that on stretch by raspian.

> Not too long ago, I saw a User asking about the ability to add a
> visual aid, e.g. those classic asterisks, to a password entry field
> that currently just sat there blank. The ability to make that User
> CHOICE would sure come in handy for at least that initial login
> console, depending on one's accessibility needs. Persons with
> disabilities related to mobility, dexterity would potentially benefit
> the most.

Absolutely.

> Afterthought.. That option may currently exist. The above just
> reflects that I haven't tripped over it yet. :)
>
Me either Cindy.  Sigh.

> Cindy :)


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 01 aug 19, 06:28:17, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
> 
> No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> 
> netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was selecting 
> xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to 
> "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> 
> Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot, 
> worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a 
> bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't 
> login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several 
> times, passwd no good.

Maybe the SSD is drawing just enough additional current to mess with 
your keyboard. As already suggested, you could try removing it.

Also, since you're not worried about security you could try typing your 
password in the username field, to make sure the keyboard works as 
expected. Just don't press enter so the password is not logged ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: odd passwd problem.

[David Wright]

On Thu 01 Aug 2019 at 06:28:17 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;

… about which I know nothing. (A physicist once showed me an original
pi in the pub, I think.)

> No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
> 
> netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was selecting 
> xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to 
> "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
> 
> Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot, 
> worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a 
> bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't 
> login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several 
> times, passwd no good.
> 
> Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions 
> running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage, 
> passwd fails.
> 
> Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo -i 
> works.

My first action would be to revert the change: remove the SSD.
I'm assuming that typing the username ± Caps behaves normally.

Cheers,
David.

Re: odd passwd problem.

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 8/1/19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Debian-arm netinstall on a pi3b;
>
> No root pw set, I am housebroken to using sudo now.
>
> netinstall didn't install x anything although I thought I was selecting
> xfce4, so my first action on the reboot was to
> "sudo apt install xfce4". reboot, works, have x and 4 workspaces.
>
> Then "sudo apt install build-essential and buildbot, cups". reboot,
> worked once, login normal. Then I plugged in a 120GB ssd which had a
> bunch of src stuff on it I'll need later and powered up again. Can't
> login, passwd no good.  Dbl check, caps lock off, try again several
> times, passwd no good.
>
> Come to the house and ssh -Y picnc. passwd good, I have 2 sessions
> running right now from konsoles on this machine. Back to the garage,
> passwd fails.
>
> Suggested course of action? I do have access to it via ssh. And sudo -i
> works.


Hi, Gene.. Are you logging in from a terminal/console interface or
graphical GUI?

If it's console... is there any chance your keyboard might be
sticking, even if for only an extra nanosecond too long?

My experience for many years has been that the first console is
especially a stinker about having a super fast keystroke repeat
setting. We can see it visually when typing in normal commands but
would have no idea it's occurring for passwords where there's no
visual cue as to what's occurring.

Not too long ago, I saw a User asking about the ability to add a
visual aid, e.g. those classic asterisks, to a password entry field
that currently just sat there blank. The ability to make that User
CHOICE would sure come in handy for at least that initial login
console, depending on one's accessibility needs. Persons with
disabilities related to mobility, dexterity would potentially benefit
the most.

Afterthought.. That option may currently exist. The above just
reflects that I haven't tripped over it yet. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *