Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:11:30PM +0200, Lourens Steenkamp wrote: Lourens replying to Johann Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. ... [snipped] You should look at Cubit Accounting (www.cubit.co.za). It uses apache and postgresql, mainly written in php4. I have some CD's that I am dishing out to Clients and will be happy to pop a couple into the mail for you - just send me your postal address. Plse Note that I am not affiliated/connected with Cubit Accounting. I have heard about cubit. Isn't it part of the impi-CD-project? What type of license does it have? Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Oliver Elphick schrieb: I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) ACK. I tried SL [sql-ledger] AFAIR 2 years ago. The plan was, to use it for an small NGO, and for my small ltd.-company. Mainly I missed some standard functionality like payment corrections etc., only solvable by tricky workarounds in SL. It seems, that the basic design of SL lacks flexibility as the developer lacks bookkeeping knowledge. Second, the project is not open in the sense of open for volunteers and contributions, because of the one and lonely developer. Helmut Wollmersdorfer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Oliver Elphick schrieb: It might suit you better. I have written an accounting system in the past and now I have looked at sql-ledger I prefer to do the same again, since it doesn't suit my ideas of what such a system should be like. Ohhh, nice to hear. I have been working with more than a dozen of different ledgers, from very primitive ones up to SAP. Thus I am dreaming about an own designed and written ledger, integrating state of the art requirements. Helmut Wollmersdorfer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
John Hasler schrieb: Oliver Elphick writes: However, I would prefer a dedicated text input program without the web-browser overhead; so it would work like the old green-screen programs I used to write. The objective here is maximum convenience for data entry: type in the data, press return to go to the next field, predictive text where possible, in-field editing. Excellent, as long as the client is easily portable. I don't understand why people want graphics in accounting. Full time bookkeepers don't need graphics, but all the other users of a ledger. Helmut Wollmersdorfer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Helmut Wollmersdorfer writes: Please inform me about kick-off at helmut(at)wollmersdorfer.at I'm very interesting in contributing. I see a strong need for a flexible GPLed ledger, targeted for small to medium business, but even scalable to larger ones. Same here, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am particularly interested in the small business end. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Helmut Wollmersdorfer writes: Full time bookkeepers don't need graphics, but all the other users of a ledger. What for? -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 14:10, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 02:14, John Hasler wrote: Oliver Elphick writes: I have the beginnings of the design of such a system; if anyone else would like to contribute ideas, please email me. Your requirements sound good to me, though some of them are not relevant to my needs. Do you want to set up a mailing list, or maybe an Alioth project? I have requested an alioth project. Which has now been created: advacs -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Lourens replying to Johann Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:11:30PM +0200, Lourens Steenkamp wrote: Lourens replying to Johann Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. ... [snipped] You should look at Cubit Accounting (www.cubit.co.za). It uses apache and postgresql, mainly written in php4. I have some CD's that I am dishing out to Clients and will be happy to pop a couple into the mail for you - just send me your postal address. Plse Note that I am not affiliated/connected with Cubit Accounting. I have heard about cubit. Isn't it part of the impi-CD-project? There is a link to it, not sure about the details. What type of license does it have? Similar to the mysql license (I am told) The source is available and may be modified. An annual subscription of R950.00 Have fun * Lourens Steenkamp Enjoying Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r2 * Here is bigger than you can imagine, Now is forever ... Bruce Cockburn : Messenger Wind -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:49:56AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote: Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. Why? I see there is a an GNU eiffel compiler in Debian Main. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope. Romans 5:3,4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Johann Spies wrote: On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:49:56AM +0800, John Summerfield wrote: Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. Why? I see there is a an GNU eiffel compiler in Debian Main. Oh, cool. Any Eiffel programmers here tried it? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 03:00, John Hasler wrote: John Summerfield writes: Web interfaces have their advantages though: for example, you client machine can be anything anywhere running any web browser. One of the things users like about sql-ledger is that you can do work at a client site, connect to your accounts (possibly using their machine), print up an invoice, process the payment give them the receipt. I would never make my accounting system accessible from the Net. I would like it to be accessible on the LAN, though, and https seems like a good way to do that. You can also let your client program talk to the PostgreSQL postmaster through an SSL connection (for remote links) or Kerberos or directly (for a trusted network). I don't actively oppose a web interface; it's just that they are such a pain to debug that I don't want to write one. Also, using a web interface pretty much requires the application be multiuser. That's a given, isn't it? I'd also want a text interface. My wife hates GUIs. A well-written web-interface should support lynx and similar text-based browsers. However, I would prefer a dedicated text input program without the web-browser overhead; so it would work like the old green-screen programs I used to write. The objective here is maximum convenience for data entry: type in the data, press return to go to the next field, predictive text where possible, in-field editing. Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. I would not be interested in a non-free package. Eiffel is free. As has been pointed out, SmartEiffel is a GPL'd compiler (the official GNU Eiffel compiler, no less!) and the class libraries are free too. It can even be faster than a program written from scratch in C, because the optimisation looks at the entire program before generating the C code rather than the more limited optimisation that a C compiler can do (according to a current thread on the smarteiffel mainlig list). I have a toy system I spent some time on after I dropped out of the Gnucash project. It uses Python and Postgresql and illustrates some ideas I was unable to sell to the Gnucash folks, such as using a journal as the fundamental data structure. I haven't looked at it in years, so it has probably suffered bit-rot. Let me set out what I think are some of the requirements for a good accounting system (in no particular order): 1. It should properly maintain double-entry, so that a non-computer-literate bookkeeper can view accounts and understand them as if he were looking at a written ledger. 2. It should be fully integrated. Cashbook, sales and purchase invoicing, asset depreciation, employee expenses, tax deductions and direct journal entries should all interact; the journal should be able to address any ledger. 3. Account codes should be purely arbitrary. I hate these systems that force you to use numeric codes to sort the chart of accounts. The organisation of accounts should depend on separate attributes of the account definitions, not on their codes. 4. There should be no limits on the number of companies, customers, accounts or whatever. (Proprietary systems tend to impose these to make you pay for upgrades.) 5. The system should be modular, so that you only need to install the bits you use. 6. There needs to be a full printed audit trail. Entries should never be deleted, only reversed. Use printed checksums to enable it to be proved that the current system entries are the same as were originally entered. 7. The system should enforce separation of duties, if the organisation is large enough to need that. (For example, the people who write cheques should not be the same people as the bought ledger clerks). 8. In view of the many different legal and tax systems in the world, it should be easy to integrate tax modules in various places. 9. It should be easy to remove data relating to past years, without affecting the current data; equally it should be possible to keep multiple years' data on-line. I have the beginnings of the design of such a system; if anyone else would like to contribute ideas, please email me. -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope. Romans 5:3,4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Lourens replying to Johann Spies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. ... [snipped] You should look at Cubit Accounting (www.cubit.co.za). It uses apache and postgresql, mainly written in php4. I have some CD's that I am dishing out to Clients and will be happy to pop a couple into the mail for you - just send me your postal address. Plse Note that I am not affiliated/connected with Cubit Accounting. HTH * Lourens Steenkamp Enjoying Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r2 * Here is bigger than you can imagine, Now is forever ... Bruce Cockburn : Messenger Wind -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Oliver Elphick writes: However, I would prefer a dedicated text input program without the web-browser overhead; so it would work like the old green-screen programs I used to write. The objective here is maximum convenience for data entry: type in the data, press return to go to the next field, predictive text where possible, in-field editing. Excellent, as long as the client is easily portable. I don't understand why people want graphics in accounting. I have the beginnings of the design of such a system; if anyone else would like to contribute ideas, please email me. Your requirements sound good to me, though some of them are not relevant to my needs. Do you want to set up a mailing list, or maybe an Alioth project? -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. ... If any other database than sql-ledger is involved, the first of those two pg_hba.conf lines does not apply and the second is used instead. (If you weren't specifying any host at all, it would be trying a Unix socket connection rather than TCP/IP and neither of those lines would apply.) I think that its first action is to create a database, so it is quite likely connecting to template1 first (since that is the only database it can be sure exists). Try changing the database parameter of the pg_hba.conf line to all. Thanks for this. That will help me to debug in the future. Regards Johann -- Johann Spies Telefoon: 021-808 4036 Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I Corinthians 13:4-7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 11:41, Johann Spies wrote: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. It might suit you better. I have written an accounting system in the past and now I have looked at sql-ledger I prefer to do the same again, since it doesn't suit my ideas of what such a system should be like. But I wouldn't want my strong prejudice to overwhelm your own judgment! I think they made a very good choice of database! -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I Corinthians 13:4-7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Johann Spies wrote: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:44:38AM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) Thanks for your reply. This remark of yours makes me wonder whether it is worth while to try it out. Hie yourself off to the sql-ledger website. Follow the links and use one of the test sites. You don't even have to download it to try it. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Oliver Elphick writes: I have written an accounting system in the past and now I have looked at sql-ledger I prefer to do the same again, since it doesn't suit my ideas of what such a system should be like. Any chance that you will package it? Or let someone else do so? I'm not pleased with sql-ledger either, but I like the alternatives even less. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 13:52, John Hasler wrote: Oliver Elphick writes: I have written an accounting system in the past and now I have looked at sql-ledger I prefer to do the same again, since it doesn't suit my ideas of what such a system should be like. Any chance that you will package it? Or let someone else do so? I'm not pleased with sql-ledger either, but I like the alternatives even less. Once it is written, yes. If you would like to list features you would like to see, that could be helpful. There really needs to be a good free accounting package, but it has to cope with all kinds of things to be a good internationalised package, and I probably haven't even imagined some of them. The old one was written (in BASIC) for UniVerse, which is proprietary. The code is currently stuck on an HP-UX machine to which I have lost the passwords. -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I Corinthians 13:4-7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 18:09, bob parker wrote: Any chance that you will package it? Or let someone else do so? I'm not pleased with sql-ledger either, but I like the alternatives even less. Once it is written, yes. If you would like to list features you would like to see, that could be helpful. There really needs to be a good free accounting package, but it has to cope with all kinds of things to be a good internationalised package, and I probably haven't even imagined some of them. Are we talking about a web page interface here? Say Pg + Php? If so I have the beginnings of a payroll module I could contribute. It's built to ato rules of PAYE for dotAU but maybe there's enough in common to suit other places. I'm not all that keen on web interfaces; as far as I can see, from my limited and reluctant experience of writing them, the programming languages are poor and debugging is a nightmare. I was thinking on the lines of glade + Python or Eiffel. However the underlying database structure should be the same, and I would insist on putting all the consistency rules into the database (triggers, foreign keys, etc.) so you could possibly have two different interfaces to the same database. -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I Corinthians 13:4-7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 00:10, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 13:52, John Hasler wrote: Oliver Elphick writes: I have written an accounting system in the past and now I have looked at sql-ledger I prefer to do the same again, since it doesn't suit my ideas of what such a system should be like. Any chance that you will package it? Or let someone else do so? I'm not pleased with sql-ledger either, but I like the alternatives even less. Once it is written, yes. If you would like to list features you would like to see, that could be helpful. There really needs to be a good free accounting package, but it has to cope with all kinds of things to be a good internationalised package, and I probably haven't even imagined some of them. The old one was written (in BASIC) for UniVerse, which is proprietary. The code is currently stuck on an HP-UX machine to which I have lost the passwords. Are we talking about a web page interface here? Say Pg + Php? If so I have the beginnings of a payroll module I could contribute. It's built to ato rules of PAYE for dotAU but maybe there's enough in common to suit other places. Bob Parker -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Oliver Elphick wrote: Are we talking about a web page interface here? Say Pg + Php? If so I have the beginnings of a payroll module I could contribute. It's built to ato rules of PAYE for dotAU but maybe there's enough in common to suit other places. I'm not all that keen on web interfaces; as far as I can see, from my limited and reluctant experience of writing them, the programming languages are poor and debugging is a nightmare. I was thinking on the lines of glade + Python or Eiffel. However the underlying database structure should be the same, and I would insist on putting all the consistency rules into the database (triggers, foreign keys, etc.) so you could possibly have two different interfaces to the same database. Web interfaces have their advantages though: for example, you client machine can be anything anywhere running any web browser. One of the things users like about sql-ledger is that you can do work at a client site, connect to your accounts (possibly using their machine), print up an invoice, process the payment give them the receipt. Also, using a web interface pretty much requires the application be multiuser. Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
John Summerfield writes: Web interfaces have their advantages though: for example, you client machine can be anything anywhere running any web browser. One of the things users like about sql-ledger is that you can do work at a client site, connect to your accounts (possibly using their machine), print up an invoice, process the payment give them the receipt. I would never make my accounting system accessible from the Net. I would like it to be accessible on the LAN, though, and https seems like a good way to do that. Also, using a web interface pretty much requires the application be multiuser. That's a given, isn't it? I'd also want a text interface. My wife hates GUIs. Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. I would not be interested in a non-free package. I have a toy system I spent some time on after I dropped out of the Gnucash project. It uses Python and Postgresql and illustrates some ideas I was unable to sell to the Gnucash folks, such as using a journal as the fundamental data structure. I haven't looked at it in years, so it has probably suffered bit-rot. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
John Hasler wrote: John Summerfield writes: Web interfaces have their advantages though: for example, you client machine can be anything anywhere running any web browser. One of the things users like about sql-ledger is that you can do work at a client site, connect to your accounts (possibly using their machine), print up an invoice, process the payment give them the receipt. I would never make my accounting system accessible from the Net. I would like it to be accessible on the LAN, though, and https seems like a good way to do that. It's a good way to demonstrate it:-) Also, using a web interface pretty much requires the application be multiuser. That's a given, isn't it? I'd also want a text interface. My wife hates GUIs. Write so it works with links, elinks, lynx and w3m Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. I would not be interested in a non-free package. I have a toy system I spent some time on after I dropped out of the Gnucash project. It uses Python and Postgresql and illustrates some ideas I was unable to sell to the Gnucash folks, such as using a journal as the fundamental data structure. I haven't looked at it in years, so it has probably suffered bit-rot. I've looked at gnucash over some years, but it has never seemed likely to do anything useful to me. Python seems sensible to me. given what RH has done with Anaconda - text-mode and GUI installer plus completely automatic installs. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
John Hasler wrote: John Summerfield writes: Web interfaces have their advantages though: for example, you client machine can be anything anywhere running any web browser. One of the things users like about sql-ledger is that you can do work at a client site, connect to your accounts (possibly using their machine), print up an invoice, process the payment give them the receipt. I would never make my accounting system accessible from the Net. I would like it to be accessible on the LAN, though, and https seems like a good way to do that. It's a good way to demonstrate it:-) Also, using a web interface pretty much requires the application be multiuser. That's a given, isn't it? I'd also want a text interface. My wife hates GUIs. Write so it works with links, elinks, lynx and w3m Eiffel would offend those users who are especially keen on free software, and ensure that the sotware would, at best, be in contrib. I would not be interested in a non-free package. I have a toy system I spent some time on after I dropped out of the Gnucash project. It uses Python and Postgresql and illustrates some ideas I was unable to sell to the Gnucash folks, such as using a journal as the fundamental data structure. I haven't looked at it in years, so it has probably suffered bit-rot. I've looked at gnucash over some years, but it has never seemed likely to do anything useful to me. Python seems sensible to me. given what RH has done with Anaconda - text-mode and GUI installer plus completely automatic installs. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
Johann Spies wrote: After seeing the article in Linuxjournal about sql-ledger I wanted to try it out. The article referred to the installation as a breeze. That was not my experience. I found the documentation confusing to say the least. The README.Debian says: If you don't like the deb, try the source from sql-ledger.org. The easiest way to test this package is to add a postgres-users with the name of www-data. This however will mean that every apache process will be able to authenticate to your DB. To make a more robust security scheme, please read your postgres documentation, but for now, do , as root, a su - postgres createuser -d www-data ... snip ... To finally test this, point your browser at http://localhost/sql-ledger/admin.pl to create the DB and the initial user, and afterwards: http://localhost/sql-ledger/login.pl to log in. Why would the documentation suggest a scheme that is not secure? Trying to create more secure schemes I had a lot of problems with the standard Debian ident-scheme in postgresql. Reading the FAQ of sql-ledger, I found: ident is not secure. Just let me near your network with my Laptop:-) I can make _m,y_ ident say I'm whoever I want you to think I am. This error has everything to do with the way distros set up access rights for postgres. They are way too restrictive and leave you wondering what to do next. Do yourself a favour and change authentication type in pg_hba.conf to local all trust Trust is probably okay if you control all the network. I'd change to password authrntication. until you have figured out what all this stuff in pg_hba.conf does. Read about the different authentication settings and change them as you see fit. Now that does not help at all! Other documentation (README.gz) suggests a safer scheme: if you use passwords to access postgres use this command $ createuser -d -P sql-ledger So I did that as well as 'createdb sql-ledger' and put the following in /etc/pg_hba.conf: # All IPv4 connections from localhost hostsql-ledger sql-ledger 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 md5 host all all 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 ident sameuser After reloading the postgresql-configuration I tried http://localhost/sql-ledger/admin.pl but when I try to create a dataset as sql-ledger I get the following error: FATAL: IDENT authentification failed for user sql-ledger. Why is postgresql trying to do an IDENT-authentication? Comment out the line(s) that say it can. Is there an SQL-HOWTO somewhere that can explain in simple terms how to set up sql-ledger in a secure way. postgresql isn't a simple package. However, the documentation is copies and readily accessible at the postgresql.prg website. sql-ledget isn't hard to set up, but I've not done it from a deb or on debian. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Mon, 2004-08-02 at 21:48, Johann Spies wrote: After seeing the article in Linuxjournal about sql-ledger I wanted to try it out. The article referred to the installation as a breeze. That was not my experience. I found the documentation confusing to say the least. I agree with that. (Once I got it working, I found sql-ledger to be cumbersome and not in my opinion suitable for use as an enterprise accounts system. ) ... Why would the documentation suggest a scheme that is not secure? Trying to create more secure schemes I had a lot of problems with the standard Debian ident-scheme in postgresql. Reading the FAQ of sql-ledger, I found: This error has everything to do with the way distros set up access rights for postgres. They are way too restrictive and leave you wondering what to do next. Do yourself a favour and change authentication type in pg_hba.conf to local all trust until you have figured out what all this stuff in pg_hba.conf does. Read about the different authentication settings and change them as you see fit. Yuck! Such an attitude to security makes me wonder a bit about the whole package! Accounting applications MUST be secure! Now that does not help at all! Other documentation (README.gz) suggests a safer scheme: if you use passwords to access postgres use this command $ createuser -d -P sql-ledger Yes. With web applications, passwords are the only way to go, because otherwise you have no verification of the user's identity. So I did that as well as 'createdb sql-ledger' and put the following in /etc/pg_hba.conf: # All IPv4 connections from localhost hostsql-ledger sql-ledger 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 md5 host all all 127.0.0.1 255.255.255.255 ident sameuser After reloading the postgresql-configuration I tried http://localhost/sql-ledger/admin.pl but when I try to create a dataset as sql-ledger I get the following error: FATAL: IDENT authentification failed for user sql-ledger. Why is postgresql trying to do an IDENT-authentication? If any other database than sql-ledger is involved, the first of those two pg_hba.conf lines does not apply and the second is used instead. (If you weren't specifying any host at all, it would be trying a Unix socket connection rather than TCP/IP and neither of those lines would apply.) I think that its first action is to create a database, so it is quite likely connecting to template1 first (since that is the only database it can be sure exists). Try changing the database parameter of the pg_hba.conf line to all. -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; II Timothy 3:16 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sql-ledger and postgresql: HOWTO?
On Tue, 2004-08-03 at 00:01, John Summerfield wrote: ident is not secure. Just let me near your network with my Laptop:-) I can make _m,y_ ident say I'm whoever I want you to think I am. The postgresql package (by default) does not enable ident authentication except for localhost (and for Unix sockets, which don't use the ident server). This is stipulated to be secure because identd is under the control of the same administrator who is installing postgresql. Ident authentication is not recommended for use from remote machines except those whose administration is similarly verifiable. Trust is probably okay if you control all the network. I'd change to password authrntication. I would always recommend password authentication for web-based applications. FATAL: IDENT authentification failed for user sql-ledger. Why is postgresql trying to do an IDENT-authentication? Comment out the line(s) that say it can. Better to find out why it is matching one of those lines. From the details given, it must either be because the connection is using a Unix socket or because it is connecting to a different database. -- Oliver Elphick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver GPG: 1024D/A54310EA 92C8 39E7 280E 3631 3F0E 1EC0 5664 7A2F A543 10EA All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; II Timothy 3:16 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
