Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Paul Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 10:58:21AM +0200, Moritz Moeller-Herrmann wrote: There are still uses for NS4. I know of a proprietary java app, that works only with Java-1.1 and thus only with NS4 or IE. This is needed to access a law database at my university. Yikes! Why do you put up with your uni leaving you rather open? My university does not have any security measures in place. They do not even have a firewall. Noone there seems responsible or interested. -- Moritz Moeller-Herrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wiss. Mitarbeiter, IMGB La loi, dans un grand souci d'égalité, interdit aux riches comme aux pauvres de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain. (ANATOLE FRANCE) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Hi, Am So, 2003-09-07 um 23.44 schrieb Colin Watson: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:46:02PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. So nothing changes, I still don't own anything. :-) I always thought with a SSL-connection the man in the middle just gets useless binary trash? Am I wrong? Bye, Ratti -- -o)fontlinge | Font management for Linux | Schriftenverwaltung in Linux /\\ http://freshmeat.net/projects/fontlinge/ _\_Vhttp://www.gesindel.de https://sourceforge.net/projects/fontlinge/ signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Am Mo, 2003-09-08 um 02.12 schrieb Roberto Sanchez: How else would they ID a browser? The site I have personally had problems with (I've posted about it here a few times already) apparently identifies the browser with some really slick trick, since it goes out as hidden data in the POST for the login. Untested Code from my archives: script document.write(navigator.appCodeName+br); document.write(navigator.appName+br); document.write(navigator.appVersion+br); document.write(navigator.userAgent+br); /script When I fake my browserID with mozilla via Prefbar-extension, one of the lines above gives the faked ID, while the other one _always_ says Mozilla. Tested just on a macintosh. Bye, Ratti -- -o)fontlinge | Font management for Linux | Schriftenverwaltung in Linux /\\ http://freshmeat.net/projects/fontlinge/ _\_Vhttp://www.gesindel.de https://sourceforge.net/projects/fontlinge/ signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Hi, On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:00:28PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Hi, Am So, 2003-09-07 um 23.44 schrieb Colin Watson: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:46:02PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. You can not really mount a man-in-the-middle attack if the bank's certificate (and therefore the public key contained in it) has been signed by a trusted entity (eg, a CA). or maybe I am wrong So nothing changes, I still don't own anything. :-) I always thought with a SSL-connection the man in the middle just gets useless binary trash? Am I wrong? Bye, Ratti -- -o)fontlinge | Font management for Linux | Schriftenverwaltung in Linux /\\ http://freshmeat.net/projects/fontlinge/ _\_Vhttp://www.gesindel.de https://sourceforge.net/projects/fontlinge/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:00:28PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 23.44 schrieb Colin Watson: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:46:02PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. So nothing changes, I still don't own anything. :-) I always thought with a SSL-connection the man in the middle just gets useless binary trash? Am I wrong? A man-in-the-middle attack *means* that the man in the middle exploits a flaw in the system - such as a buggy browser - to get more than that. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
At 2003-09-09T19:00:28Z, Joerg Rossdeutscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. I always thought with a SSL-connection the man in the middle just gets useless binary trash? Am I wrong? That was the whole point: Netscape 4 has quite a few known vulnerabilities. It may very well be the case that a MITM could snoop a session from a Netscape 4 browser's broken SSL implementation. -- Kirk Strauser -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:29:34PM -0700, Jean-Michel besnard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 09:00:28PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 23.44 schrieb Colin Watson: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:46:02PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. You can not really mount a man-in-the-middle attack if the bank's certificate (and therefore the public key contained in it) has been signed by a trusted entity (eg, a CA). There have been bugs that caused the checking for such a trusted CA not to work properly. And, of course, people have often got used to dismissing obscure prompts about these certificate things ... Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am Mo, 2003-09-08 um 02.12 schrieb Roberto Sanchez: How else would they ID a browser? The site I have personally had problems with (I've posted about it here a few times already) apparently identifies the browser with some really slick trick, since it goes out as hidden data in the POST for the login. Untested Code from my archives: script document.write(navigator.appCodeName+br); document.write(navigator.appName+br); document.write(navigator.appVersion+br); document.write(navigator.userAgent+br); /script When I fake my browserID with mozilla via Prefbar-extension, one of the lines above gives the faked ID, while the other one _always_ says Mozilla. Tested just on a macintosh. Bye, Ratti Netscape 4.x's code name *is* Mozilla. That is where the name for Mozilla came from... The other way to do a browser check[actually the 'proper' way] is to check whether the browser supports document.layers or document.all or some other [obsolete] capability that you plan on using. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:26:23 +0200, Moritz Moeller-Herrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Paul Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 10:58:21AM +0200, Moritz Moeller-Herrmann wrote: There are still uses for NS4. I know of a proprietary java app, that works only with Java-1.1 and thus only with NS4 or IE. This is needed to access a law database at my university. Yikes! Why do you put up with your uni leaving you rather open? My university does not have any security measures in place. They do not even have a firewall. Noone there seems responsible or interested. ..if you for _any_ reason, _needs_ to use _their_ network, _make_ them sign a disclaimer. For your own legal ass. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Paul Johnson wrote: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 01:09:46PM +0200, Alexander Mikhailian wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Netscape 4 is dead. Move on already! You want mozilla. There are still uses for NS4. I know of a proprietary java app, that works only with Java-1.1 and thus only with NS4 or IE. This is needed to access a law database at my university. -- Moritz Moeller-Herrmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wiss. Mitarbeiter, IMGB La loi, dans un grand souci d'égalité, interdit aux riches comme aux pauvres de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain. (ANATOLE FRANCE) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 10:58:21AM +0200, Moritz Moeller-Herrmann wrote: There are still uses for NS4. I know of a proprietary java app, that works only with Java-1.1 and thus only with NS4 or IE. This is needed to access a law database at my university. Yikes! Why do you put up with your uni leaving you rather open? - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/XH0bUzgNqloQMwcRAk9VAKCAycRRN6dxPAAicV12RrujNZhkiwCgxJ50 RC0ZS3D2WBwTSonKKoyOyuI= =oEVU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, 2003-09-07 at 23:55, Jerry Quinn wrote: Joerg Rossdeutscher writes: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: On Son, 2003-09-07 at 21:05, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. I've never seen one. Mine. :-) Mine too. Check out www.usalliance.org Then spoof the user-agent string. 'Tis child's play. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] REMEMBER ED CURRY! http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry Bleed me! My memory is fried with your pork! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:48:02 +0200, Christophe Courtois [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I thought one of the points of open source [Ok, it is not open source, but free] was that a project was never dead, and that you upgrade when YOU want. Netscsape is not free software. So, why not NS 4.77 in Sarge ? Assuming someone wants to maintain it, of course. Debian does not contain non-free software. And even things on the archive servers that are not fre are only retained until free replacements obsolete them. Please read the social contract as to why Debian should not package netscape anymore. manoj -- Kilroe hic erat! Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Greg Folkert [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. I've never seen one. Mine. :-) Mine too. Check out www.usalliance.org Then spoof the user-agent string. 'Tis child's play. However, one of the points brought up early in the discussion was that some sites use a more sophisitcated check, and spoofing the UA string doesn't work. -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Alexander Mikhailian wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Well, first I ask myself: Why would anyone use Netscape 4? Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... But I guess you have a reason for doing so. So I went to www.netscape.com and could not find it even there... Since not even the company that made it supports yesterdays browser, why should the 'next generation' of Debian? You can still install it from stable. Seems to work. Netscape Communicator 4.77 sarge:/home/stw# apt-get install netscape Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed: communicator communicator-base-477 communicator-smotif-477 libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1 netscape-base-4 netscape-base-477 netscape-java-477 The following NEW packages will be installed: communicator communicator-base-477 communicator-smotif-477 libstdc++2.9-glibc2.1 netscape netscape-base-4 netscape-base-477 netscape-java-477 0 packages upgraded, 8 newly installed, 0 to remove and 8 not upgraded. Need to get 12.6MB of archives. After unpacking 23.3MB will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] You do need the woody-lines in your sources.list to do that though. HTH, Stefan PS: I found 4.x as tar.gz on netscape's ftp-site: In ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/communicator/english there are many versions to choose from. /pub/communicator/english/4.8/unix/supported/linux22/ complete_install/communicator-v48-us.x86-unknown-linux2.2.tar.gz seems to be the most current (one line!) And there is also a hint in the ftp-direcory: 250-ARCHIVED VERSIONS 250- 250-Can't find what you're looking for? Try accessing our archive site at 250-ftp://archive:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/archive/index.html to see if 250-the older version you are seeking is listed there. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 01:09:46PM +0200, Alexander Mikhailian wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Netscape 4 is dead. Move on already! You want mozilla. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/W2wgUzgNqloQMwcRAuEfAJ9SmzI1eRwulQNsPHkqyJ+x2LDRHQCgqFq+ vrCaGM7wHpniKywM3cc9QPU= =dJCu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Le Dimanche 7 Septembre 2003 17:51, Stefan Waidele jun. a déclamé : Well, first I ask myself: Why would anyone use Netscape 4? For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... For computers too old to run anything else than NS 3 or 4. Since not even the company that made it supports yesterdays browser, why should the 'next generation' of Debian? I thought one of the points of open source [Ok, it is not open source, but free] was that a project was never dead, and that you upgrade when YOU want. So, why not NS 4.77 in Sarge ? Assuming someone wants to maintain it, of course. -- Christophe Courtois - Ostwald, Alsace, France http://www.courtois.cc/ - Clé PGP : 0F33E837 -- We have a spider that comes crawling around our cubes every now and then. We don't kill him, figuring he helps keep the other bug populations inside down. We call him our little web developer. -- peterdaly, Slashdot, 26/06/02 19:59 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:48:02PM +0200, Christophe Courtois wrote: I thought one of the points of open source [Ok, it is not open source, but free] was that a project was never dead, and that you upgrade when YOU want. Netscape isn't open-source, and isn't free. It was never in Debian, it was in non-free. It had bugs, they were non-fixable, it went away. -- Marc Wilson | The sudden sight of me causes panic in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] | streets. They have yet to learn -- only the savage | fears what he does not understand. -- The Silver | Surfer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:48:02 +0200, Christophe Courtois [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le Dimanche 7 Septembre 2003 17:51, Stefan Waidele jun. a déclamé : Well, first I ask myself: Why would anyone use Netscape 4? For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... For computers too old to run anything else than NS 3 or 4. ...there is Dillo and gLinks and Sylpheed too: http://damnsmalllinux.org/applications.html -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 07:48:02PM +0200, Christophe Courtois wrote: Le Dimanche 7 Septembre 2003 17:51, Stefan Waidele jun. a d?clam? : Well, first I ask myself: Why would anyone use Netscape 4? For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 in my experience. I haven't really seen any pages that work in netscape 4 but not in mozilla, but even if there is such a thing, I doubt that people are coding for netscape 4 any more. Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... For computers too old to run anything else than NS 3 or 4. They can always run lynx or dillo :) Since not even the company that made it supports yesterdays browser, why should the 'next generation' of Debian? I thought one of the points of open source [Ok, it is not open source, but free] was that a project was never dead, and that you upgrade when YOU want. So, why not NS 4.77 in Sarge ? Assuming someone wants to maintain it, of course. It is impossible to maintain. Only netscape the company has the source and can fix actual problems with the program. If they give up on the program it's dead. This is one of the problems with proprietary software. If you really need it you should be able to find it on ftp.netscape.com. Bijan -- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.crasseux.com pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 02:41:46PM -0400, Bijan Soleymani wrote: The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 in my experience. I haven't really seen any pages that work in netscape 4 but not in mozilla, but even if there is such a thing, I doubt that people are coding for netscape 4 any more. Not that they should have been to start with. http://www.org/ - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/W4DkUzgNqloQMwcRArbTAJ9Uq30HR5COhJLi0Re0Ty0fYyjFeQCeJJ+L hwhgR6xfsWX3wfMBD0NoywM= =EDgy -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Hi, Am So, 2003-09-07 um 19.34 schrieb Paul Johnson: On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 01:09:46PM +0200, Alexander Mikhailian wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Netscape 4 is dead. Move on already! You want mozilla. A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. Just an annotation. I don't do online banking. Bye, Ratti -- -o)fontlinge | Font management for Linux | Schriftenverwaltung in Linux /\\ http://freshmeat.net/projects/fontlinge/ _\_Vhttp://www.gesindel.de https://sourceforge.net/projects/fontlinge/ signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Son, 2003-09-07 at 21:05, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. I've never seen one. If it happened to me, I'd take my business elsewhere and made sure they know why. You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 in my experience. I haven't really seen any pages that work in netscape 4 but not in mozilla, but even if there is such a thing, I doubt that people are coding for netscape 4 any more. Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it _only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: Your browser has been identified as indicated below: Netscape 5.0 (X11; en-US) This site supports the following browers: # Netscape Navigator version 4.06 or later # Netscape Communicator # Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later Changing the user agent string does not work wither, as it uses some ASP/IIS fingerprinting trick (at least that is what I think after looking at the live HTTP headers). My only other recourse was to run the Win32 version of Firebird in WINE (since IE in WINE won't do SSL), but since the current WINE is pretty b0rked, this isn't working at the moment. Talk about annoying. Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... For computers too old to run anything else than NS 3 or 4. They can always run lynx or dillo :) Not if they want frames and SSL (at least as far lynx goes, I don't know about dillo). Since not even the company that made it supports yesterdays browser, why should the 'next generation' of Debian? I thought one of the points of open source [Ok, it is not open source, but free] was that a project was never dead, and that you upgrade when YOU want. So, why not NS 4.77 in Sarge ? Assuming someone wants to maintain it, of course. It is impossible to maintain. Only netscape the company has the source and can fix actual problems with the program. If they give up on the program it's dead. This is one of the problems with proprietary software. I can see that, but I was under the impression that Netscape Communications actually released all the source code under the NPL. Is this wrong? Did they only release part of it? If you really need it you should be able to find it on ftp.netscape.com. That's what I did. Works great. Bijan -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: On Son, 2003-09-07 at 21:05, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. I've never seen one. Mine. :-) Gnucash would run also, so I don't blame them. But I don't like that. I want browserbased or no onlinebanking. You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Bye, Ratti -- -o)fontlinge | Font management for Linux | Schriftenverwaltung in Linux /\\ http://freshmeat.net/projects/fontlinge/ _\_Vhttp://www.gesindel.de https://sourceforge.net/projects/fontlinge/ signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Roberto writes: I can see that, but I was under the impression that Netscape Communications actually released all the source code under the NPL. Is this wrong? Did they only release part of it? They released all of the parts that they wrote. Unfortunately, they used some proprietary libraries. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Hello Arnt Karlsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 19:48:02 +0200, Christophe Courtois [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Le Dimanche 7 Septembre 2003 17:51, Stefan Waidele jun. a déclamé : Well, first I ask myself: Why would anyone use Netscape 4? For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... Numbers have arrived at 7.1 and there is Mozilla as a free alternative and there is mozilla-firebird,... For computers too old to run anything else than NS 3 or 4. ...there is Dillo and gLinks and Sylpheed too: http://damnsmalllinux.org/applications.html If running closed-source software is not a problem, Opera might also be worth a try. best regards Andreas Janssen -- Andreas Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP-Key-ID: 0xDC801674 Registered Linux User #267976 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Son, 2003-09-07 at 21:46, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Mine. :-) Hm, where I live in D there's no shortage of banks to choose from. I need only personal stuff though, and obviously don't know you needs :) May I ask which braindead bank this is, so I can avoid them? Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) I wouldn't even trust NS 4's SSL anymore -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Roberto Sanchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003:09:07:21:39:59+0200] scribed: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: For some people who are used to it and won't change For some badly coded enterprise websites... The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 in my experience. I haven't really seen any pages that work in netscape 4 but not in mozilla, but even if there is such a thing, I doubt that people are coding for netscape 4 any more. Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it _only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: Your browser has been identified as indicated below: Netscape 5.0 (X11; en-US) This site supports the following browers: # Netscape Navigator version 4.06 or later # Netscape Communicator # Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later I do *not* have this problem bringing up that URL under both: Konqueror v3.1.3 Mozilla v1.4-3 Of course, I do not have a logon, so I cannot test main program functionality; but, I successfully browsed to FAQ, About, Contact Us, c. -- Best Regards, mds mds resource 877.596.8237 - Dare to fix things before they break . . . - Our capacity for understanding is inversely proportional to how much we think we know. The more I know, the more I know I don't know . . . -- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Michael D Schleif [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: I do *not* have this problem bringing up that URL under both: Konqueror v3.1.3 Mozilla v1.4-3 Of course, I do not have a logon, so I cannot test main program functionality; but, I successfully browsed to FAQ, About, Contact Us, c. The problem only occurs when trying to log on. It's a real pain, trust me ;-) -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:39:59PM +0200, Roberto Sanchez wrote: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?: They can always run lynx or dillo :) Not if they want frames and SSL (at least as far lynx goes, I don't know about dillo). Try w3m, which does both. (Hit shift-F to render frames.) It is impossible to maintain. Only netscape the company has the source and can fix actual problems with the program. If they give up on the program it's dead. This is one of the problems with proprietary software. I can see that, but I was under the impression that Netscape Communications actually released all the source code under the NPL. Is this wrong? Did they only release part of it? As I understand it, which may be wrong, they released a broken pile of code which was somewhere halfway between Netscape 4 and what would have been Netscape 5: basically just their current development tree. That's one of the reasons why it took Mozilla so long to get going. I don't believe that the source for Netscape 4 itself was ever released. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:46:02PM +0200, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: You probably don't even get security fixes fo NS 4 anymore! Uninteresting, since one would use NS4 only with the bank's site. They don't need to hack me. They own everything I have... :-) Whoa, sure it's interesting. Consider a man-in-the-middle SSL attack: now somebody else owns everything you have. This is a real example, although I don't know if Netscape 4 has such vulnerabilities. IE was reported as having such a vulnerability last year. It is certainly not the case that you only need to worry about sites you visit, since given such a browser vulnerability anyone who happens to control or take control of a router between you and your bank can hijack what you think are secure connections. Attackers on your local network could even spoof ARP traffic to make your system think that theirs is the router. It's a tough world out there. Cheers, -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 01:09:46PM +0200, Alexander Mikhailian ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Noteing without repeating that NS 4 is non-free, proprietary, unmaintained, and never part of Debian aside from an installer. There are numerous vastly better browser alternatives available today, a review of many is at: http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/NixBrowsers Netscape provides an archive of versions of its browsers back to 2.x at: http://wp.netscape.com/download/archive.html If you're interested in a set of ancient product for compatibility purposes, go there. Install these under /usr/local or /opt (I symlink the latter to /usr/local/opt on my systems). If the issue is browser compatibility with broken web transaction sites: - Inform the site maintainer that NS 4.x is three generations and four years old. I tcontains numerous compliance issues with web standards (see http://w3c.org/) and unaddressed security holes. - You can often get around user-agent string tests by changing the user-agent string sent by your browser, or if using a sitewide proxy, all users on your site. My own preferred user-agent string is W3C standards are important. Stop fucking obsessing over user-agent already. You can find instructions on how to set user-agent string (and why you might want to do so) at http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/UserAgentString Some browsers (Konqueror, Opera) allow specifying an arbitrary user-agent string, including several preconfigured strings to impersonate other browsers. This works for the vast majority of sites whose designers are stupid enough to perform user-agent string discrimination. - Go ahead and install an ancient browser, but realize that you are compromising the security and integrity of your system by doing so. Peace. -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Defeat EU Software Patents! http://swpat.ffii.org/ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:39:59PM +0200, Roberto Sanchez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?: Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it _only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: You want some press focus on this stellar example of military security? They can always run lynx or dillo :) Not if they want frames and SSL (at least as far lynx goes, I don't know about dillo). IIRC lynx has rudimentary frames support. lynx-ssl supports SSL. w3m, another console browser, supports both frames and SSL. And images, if you really insist. Dillo's pretty rudimentary, though its frames support is primitive (open each as window). I can see that, but I was under the impression that Netscape Communications actually released all the source code under the NPL. Is this wrong? Yes. Did they only release part of it? Yes. There's this problem common to proprietary code of viral infection by third-party proprietary licenses. The result is that you don't actually own and control the code you use and develope. This was a major problem for Netscape (and any other company which has tried opening up proprietary products). It's among the reasons that OS/2 remains closed, and was specifically a reason Bruce Perens recommended to HP that they _not_ open source the HP OpenMail product (HP instead spun this off to Samsung). Peace. -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? I managed to love simultaneously -- and this is not easy -- women and justice. -- Albert Camus, _The Fall_ pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 11:47:31PM +0100, Karsten M. Self wrote: IIRC lynx has rudimentary frames support. lynx-ssl supports SSL. lynx is sort of last resort. You want elinks or elinks-ssl. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/W774UzgNqloQMwcRAqc9AKCedBkxzibNFm+lKWIRuUIcmzPiLACfXkc0 N7VSkI6bhFRTyStIIFyaB8g= =+73b -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Some browsers (Konqueror, Opera) allow specifying an arbitrary user-agent string, including several preconfigured strings to impersonate other browsers. This works for the vast majority of sites whose designers are stupid enough to perform user-agent string discrimination. How else would they ID a browser? The site I have personally had problems with (I've posted about it here a few times already) apparently identifies the browser with some really slick trick, since it goes out as hidden data in the POST for the login. I'm just interested to know how they do it and how I might be able to fake them out. -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:47:31 +0100, Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:39:59PM +0200, Roberto Sanchez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?: Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it_only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: You want some press focus on this stellar example of military security? ..https://mypay.dfas.mil/ hacked; al-Quaeda on DoD payroll!? ;-) Peace. ..insh-Allah! ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Bijan Soleymani wrote: .. The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 ... Huh? The number of websites that work in Mozilla but fail in Netscape 4 is one measurement. What's the other one? (You need two things to be able to say there's a 10-to-1 ratio between them.) Daniel -- Daniel Barclay [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Daniel B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: Bijan Soleymani wrote: .. The number of websites that work in mozilla but fail in netscape 4 is about 10 to 1 ... Huh? The number of websites that work in Mozilla but fail in Netscape 4 is one measurement. What's the other one? (You need two things to be able to say there's a 10-to-1 ratio between them.) There are two measurements: 1. Sites that function properly in Mozilla and Netscape 4 2. Sites that function properly in Mozilla, but not in Netscape 4 -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Alexander Mikhailian wrote: I recently upgraded to testing and found out that netscape 4 is missing in the list of packages. Where can I get a working version of netscape 4 for testing? Netscape is based on mozilla, so install that instead. Mozilla has options to stop pop-up ads, but netscape has not. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
On Sunday 07 September 2003 06:47 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote: on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:39:59PM +0200, Roberto Sanchez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?: Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it _only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: -snip-- Just tried it with Konqueror 3.1.3 I was able to log in and view my Retiree Account Statement. Recommend you upgrade to KDE 3.1.3 and give it a whirl. Who know the latest Mozilla may already be able to log in as well. -- Jose [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ - 24092988 Don't make me come down there -God Retired 1SG - Army -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
--- Jose Mirles [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: On Sunday 07 September 2003 06:47 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote: on Sun, Sep 07, 2003 at 09:39:59PM +0200, Roberto Sanchez ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: --- Bijan Soleymani [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribi?: Try https://mypay.dfas.mil/ , where I access my payroll info. From *nix it _only_ works in Netscape 4.x. I have gone around and around for some time on this, but with Mozilla, Firebird, Epiphany, and Galeon it IDs the browser as: -snip-- Just tried it with Konqueror 3.1.3 I was able to log in and view my Retiree Account Statement. Recommend you upgrade to KDE 3.1.3 and give it a whirl. Who know the latest Mozilla may already be able to log in as well. Your browser has been identified as indicated below: Konqueror 5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.1; Linux) Looks like a no go. Did you do something to change your User Agent string? I have also tried the latest bleeding edge tarballs from Mozilla, as well as the latest Netscape directly from netscape.com, none of them worked. This is really annoying me now :-) -Roberto ___ Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más... http://messenger.yahoo.es -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where is netscape 4 in testing?
Joerg Rossdeutscher writes: Am So, 2003-09-07 um 21.11 schrieb Mario Vukelic: On Son, 2003-09-07 at 21:05, Joerg Rossdeutscher wrote: A lot of banks here in germany allow online banking for linux only with netscape 4. I've never seen one. Mine. :-) Mine too. Check out www.usalliance.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
