Re: Wiki Debian "Release page" should have template (Was Re: Buster no release file)

[Robbi Nespu]

On 7/20/21 11:34 PM, Robbi Nespu wrote:

I send out this email first. So I can have a link to attach on my report 
bug later. Will replying this thread later with report bugs number, I 
hope this will be useful to prevent issue like this.


Thanks to Greg and Paul for great contribution on Debian Wiki.

p/s: Wiki Debian "Release page" == 
https://wiki.debian.org/Debian




Here the bug report https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=991322

--
Robbi Nespu 
D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
https://robbinespu.gitlab.io | https://mstdn.social/@robbinespu

Re: Wiki software.

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Cindy Sue Causey (2020-01-23 18:33:48)
> Found something called Sputnik. I like the sound of that word, always did.
> 
> The package sounds.. "robust", possibly maybe even a little too much.
> Implementation and some incidental screenshots are the only way to
> really find out.

Beware that Sputnik was last updated in 2012:

  https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/sputnik

Also seems to not be a static website compiler - one of the upstream 
pages look like it is puking Lua code today: 
http://sputnik.freewisdom.org/en/Sandbox

Possibly the Debian package works better than the upstream website so it 
does not puke Lua (yet...), but personally I would prefer a tool where 
when it grows old and no longer is maintained then eventually only 
_editing_ breaks but pages continue to be viewable for as long as the 
disk is readable.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: Wiki software.

[Jonas Smedegaard]

Quoting Peter Easthope (2020-01-23 17:22:49)
> A friend asked about setting up a wiki for development of a relatively 
> simple document.  Mostly text.  Possibly a few illustrations.  Running 
> on a personal machine or a hosting service; not determined yet. 
> Authenticated access to a large group of people; not public.
> 
> MediaWiki is an obvious possibility.  Too complex?  MoinMoin as used
> for wiki.debian.org isn't so visually appealing; just a configuration
> choice?  Many others.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software


There are lots of options.  Right one depends on many factors.

Rich expressivity of character placement - e.g. ability to express 
mathematical equations or specific kerning (i.e. character spacing)?

Rich expressivity of content layout - e.g. placement or coloring or size 
of all or specific headlines or footers?

Conformity of content layout - e.g. that 4 classes of document each 
follow a unique layout, and only two of them may contain custom 
deviations?

Reuse of content - e.g. maintaining a footer common across all pages, 
adding a sidebar to all blog entries, another sidebar to the bio page, 
and no sidebar on frontpage?

Administration - I agree with Dan that if your friend should not only 
edit content but also _maintain_ the service, then you want something 
not only easy to _use_, and a simple rule of thumb is then to steer 
clear of solutions requiring a database backend.

Security - if the service is public accessible and your friend is not a 
skilled admin, then (unlike Dan) I consider Docuwiki a bad choice 
because it executes code based on what each visitor requests, and the 
code executed is PHP which has a bad track record of security flaws.  
Maybe when only a closed group gets access it is ok, but I would still 
be worried...

I recommend to first consider solutions that generates a static website 
each time content is edited.  One of the first to do that was Ikiwiki.  
It is old and its default style is boring, and its user editing 
interface can feel clunky - but style can be easily changed to something 
more fancy (my partner and I made e.g. http://bsg.biks.dk/ ), and most 
other static web compilers lack the web-based editing interface included 
with Ikiwiki which I find important for projects where some of the 
content editors are not comfortable using a console-based interface.

If you want to edit locally but push to a cloud service, you can do that 
with Ikiwiki and https://www.branchable.com/ or and popular alternatives 
like hugo, jekyll, and nanoc.

For more technical "groupware" things mabe consider fossil or redmine.

Personally I've used MoinMoin in the past (and introduced it to Debian 
many many years ago) but nowadays _only_ use static web compilers - 
mostly¹ Ikiwiki.  If I could live without the web-based editing 
interface then I would first consider hakyll (for its powerful content 
parser based on Pandoc), and then hugo (for being extremely fast).


 - Jonas

¹ Where I don't use Ikiwiki I instead use a Makefile and pandoc, or 
mkdocs.

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private


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Re: Wiki software.

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 1/23/20, Peter Easthope  wrote:
> A friend asked about setting up a wiki for development of a relatively
> simple document.  Mostly text.  Possibly a few illustrations.  Running
> on a personal machine or a hosting service; not determined yet.
> Authenticated access to a large group of people; not public.
>
> MediaWiki is an obvious possibility.  Too complex?  MoinMoin as used
> for wiki.debian.org isn't so visually appealing; just a configuration
> choice?  Many others.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software
>
> Advice?


Hi.. I took a shot at this via "apt-cache search web wiki". That
search was decided upon by picking out something that easily popped as
"wiki", in this case "wiliki", then looking for similar by using a
VERY USEFUL tag, "web::wiki".

Found something called Sputnik. I like the sound of that word, always did.

The package sounds.. "robust", possibly maybe even a little too much.
Implementation and some incidental screenshots are the only way to
really find out.

Sputnik's "apt-cache show" description is:

+ BEGIN SPUTNIK'S DESCRIPTION +

Description-en: Extensible wiki
 Sputnik is a wiki written in Lua. It is also a platform for building a range
 of wiki-like applications, drawing on Lua's strengths as an extension
 language.
 .
 Out of the box Sputnik behaves like a wiki with all the standard wiki
 features: editable pages, protection against spam bots, history view of pages,
 diff, preview, per-page-RSS feed for site changes.
 .
 At the same time, Sputnik is designed to be used as a platform for a wide
 range of "social software" applications. Sputnik stores its data as versioned
 "pages" that can be editable through the web, and it allows those pages to
 store any data that can be saved as text (prose, comma-separated values, lists
 of named parameters, Lua tables, mbox-formatted messages, XML, etc.) While by
 default the page is displayed as if it carried Markdown-formatted text, the
 way the page is viewed (or edited, or saved, etc.) can be overridden on a
 per-page basis by over-riding or adding "actions".
 .
 The packages provide a wide range of storage modules that may require
 one of the suggested packages: git, lua5.1-sql-sqlite3, lua5.1-sql-mysql.
 .
 The easiest form of deployment is by using the Xavante web server.

+ END SPUTNIK'S DESCRIPTION +

I like the sound of that package enough to add it to my regular
downloads until I get a chance to play with it firsthand. :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: Wiki software.

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 23 ian 20, 10:22:49, Peter Easthope wrote:
> A friend asked about setting up a wiki for development of a relatively
> simple document.  Mostly text.  Possibly a few illustrations.  Running
> on a personal machine or a hosting service; not determined yet.
> Authenticated access to a large group of people; not public.
> 
> MediaWiki is an obvious possibility.  Too complex?  MoinMoin as used
> for wiki.debian.org isn't so visually appealing; just a configuration
> choice?  Many others.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software

ikiwiki?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Wiki software.

[Dan Ritter]

Peter Easthope wrote: 
> A friend asked about setting up a wiki for development of a relatively
> simple document.  Mostly text.  Possibly a few illustrations.  Running
> on a personal machine or a hosting service; not determined yet.
> Authenticated access to a large group of people; not public.
> 
> MediaWiki is an obvious possibility.  Too complex?  MoinMoin as used
> for wiki.debian.org isn't so visually appealing; just a configuration
> choice?  Many others.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_wiki_software
> 
> Advice?

If your friend is going to be the administrator, avoid anything
with a database.

Dokuwiki is likely about optimal.

-dsr-

Re: wiki

[Rodary Jacques]

Le lundi 19 février 2018, 08:12:57 CET Reco a écrit :
>   Hi.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:29:50AM +0100, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > Even if it did, the firewall have not come into play.
> > > Since the user saw HTTP 403 it means that HTTPS connection was
> > > established successfully, and a front-end (or back-end) webserver gave
> > > 403 code, which was transferred to a user.
> > > 
> > > >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
> > I was using Opera  browser,so quick,  but I just tried with firefox, so 
> > slow, but both mozilla, and the result is the same when google search ( 
> > which I don't use with  Opera)  gives me a lot of choices , all with 403 
> > result. My  public IP, 88.170.1.143 is the one my provider ( 
> > free.fr=proxad.fr)  gave me.
> 
> As I wrote earlier - try Tor.
> It seems that your network subnet was banned at wiki.debian.org.
> 
> Reco
I finally dared to install Tor an it works! So I will use wiki t o 
understand why the  "reply to" link in the list doesn't copy the subject 
'Re.;Re: < suject> in Kmail, as it did in Jessie without any setup by me. 
Thank you all  for your time.
Jacques 

Re: Suggest contacting w...@debian.org - was [Re: wiki]

[Steve McIntyre]

Brian wrote:
>On Mon 19 Feb 2018 at 05:55:54 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> > 
>> > This usually means your IP address was banned for spam.
>> > 
>> > Please reply to w...@debian.org giving your IP address.
>
>Three days after being informed of the existence of this mail address
>there is no sign that the OP has taken advantage of it. If blocking
>is the cause (using a VPN can be a reason), only the wiki admins can
>sort it out.

Nod. Please let us know via wiki@ and we'll at least have a chance of
working out the problem.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"Every time you use Tcl, God kills a kitten." -- Malcolm Ray

Re: Suggest contacting w...@debian.org - was [Re: wiki]

[Brian]

On Mon 19 Feb 2018 at 05:55:54 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 02/15/2018 07:42 PM, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > Forbidden
> > You are not allowed to access this!
> > is the message I get.
> 
> I just saw this post on debian-www
> 
> > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > 
> > This usually means your IP address was banned for spam.
> > 
> > Please reply to w...@debian.org giving your IP address.

Three days after being informed of the existence of this mail address
there is no sign that the OP has taken advantage of it. If blocking
is the cause (using a VPN can be a reason), only the wiki admins can
sort it out.

-- 
Brian.

Suggest contacting w...@debian.org - was [Re: wiki]

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/15/2018 07:42 PM, Rodary Jacques wrote:

Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
Forbidden
You are not allowed to access this!
is the message I get.


I just saw this post on debian-www 


You are not allowed to access this!


This usually means your IP address was banned for spam.

Please reply to w...@debian.org giving your IP address.

HTH

Re: wiki

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:42:59AM +, Curt wrote:
> On 2018-02-19, Reco  wrote:
> 
> >> > >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
> >> I was using Opera  browser,so quick,  but I just tried with firefox, so 
> >> slow, but both mozilla, and the result is the same when google search ( 
> >> which I don't use with  Opera)  gives me a lot of choices , all with 403 
> >> result. My  public IP, 88.170.1.143 is the one my provider ( 
> >> free.fr=proxad.fr)  gave me.
> >
> > As I wrote earlier - try Tor.
> > It seems that your network subnet was banned at wiki.debian.org.
> 
> So the French are right: there is an international conspiracy against
> them.

No, you got it wrong. There's an international conspiracy against wget,
and the existance of conspiracy was proven in France ☺.

Reco

Re: wiki

[Curt]

On 2018-02-19, Reco  wrote:

>> > >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
>> I was using Opera  browser,so quick,  but I just tried with firefox, so 
>> slow, but both mozilla, and the result is the same when google search ( 
>> which I don't use with  Opera)  gives me a lot of choices , all with 403 
>> result. My  public IP, 88.170.1.143 is the one my provider ( 
>> free.fr=proxad.fr)  gave me.
>
> As I wrote earlier - try Tor.
> It seems that your network subnet was banned at wiki.debian.org.

So the French are right: there is an international conspiracy against
them.

> Reco


-- 
New York was no mere city. It was instead an infinitely romantic notion, the
mysterious nexus of all love and money and power, the shining and the
perishable dream itself. To think of 'living' there was to reduce the
miraculous to the mundane; one does not 'live' at Xanadu. --Joan Didion

Re: wiki

[Rodary Jacques]

Le dimanche 18 février 2018, 21:47:59 CET Roberto C. Sánchez a écrit :
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:29:50AM +0100, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > what is  SNI?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication
> 
> Essentially, there was a time when you could not host more than one
> HTTPS-enabled site per IP address and port combination. This was a
> problem for virtual hosting configurations where the server name in the
> request was used to decide what content to serve. SNI allows for
> identifying the server associated with the request early in the
> connection so that a matching SSL certificate can be used for the
> connection. Or something along those lines.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Roberto
Reading all your posts, I realized that I didn't allow NEW connections 
by https (port 443) or by ssh (port 22) in my iptables setup. So I did but 
nothing changed neither with Opera, nor with Firefox.
So no wiki for me!  :-(

Re: wiki

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:29:50AM +0100, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > Even if it did, the firewall have not come into play.
> > Since the user saw HTTP 403 it means that HTTPS connection was
> > established successfully, and a front-end (or back-end) webserver gave
> > 403 code, which was transferred to a user.
> > 
> > >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
> I was using Opera  browser,so quick,  but I just tried with firefox, so slow, 
> but both mozilla, and the result is the same when google search ( which I 
> don't use with  Opera)  gives me a lot of choices , all with 403 result. My  
> public IP, 88.170.1.143 is the one my provider ( free.fr=proxad.fr)  gave me.

As I wrote earlier - try Tor.
It seems that your network subnet was banned at wiki.debian.org.

Reco

Re: wiki

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:29:50AM +0100, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> what is  SNI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication

Essentially, there was a time when you could not host more than one
HTTPS-enabled site per IP address and port combination. This was a
problem for virtual hosting configurations where the server name in the
request was used to decide what content to serve. SNI allows for
identifying the server associated with the request early in the
connection so that a matching SSL certificate can be used for the
connection. Or something along those lines.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: wiki

[Rodary Jacques]

Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 19:53:44 CET Reco a écrit :
>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:38:49AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:30:31AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > > > > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > > > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > > > > Forbidden
> > > > > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > > > > is the message I get.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble
> > > > > with? (What is its URL?)
> > > >
> > > > I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various
> > > > problems.
> > > 
> > > Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems navigating 
> > > the site.
> > > Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.
> > 
> > The original message was so incredibly vague that it could mean anything.
> > 
> > But.
> > 
> > If the actual complaint is "I get 403 Forbidden on https://wiki.debian.org;
> > then we need additional detail: what version of Debian the OP is using,
> > what browser, and any unusual aspects of the OP's network that could
> > be relevant (workplace firewall, China firewall, etc.).
> 
> My crystal ball says that OP is using home connection, and no, these
> details aren't needed. tcpdump/wireshark capture, combined with the SSL
> session key - that's what needed.
> Or someone from 11AS12322 willing to provide a temporary shell account.
> 
> E-mail headers say that e-mail came from 11AS12322 belonging to some
> French provider:
> 
> Received: from ns.rodary.net (unknown [88.170.1.143])
> by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154405FF27
> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 02:42:15 +0100 
> (CET)
> 
> With MUA which is uncommon in dull enterprise world:
> 
> User-Agent: KMail/5.2.3 (Linux/4.9.0-5-amd64; KDE/5.28.0; x86_64; ; )
> 
> I believe we can exclude such possibilities as China Great Firewall
> (unless they installed it in France for some reason), or workplace SSL
> Bump (else OP won't see HTTP 403).
> 
> 
> > There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the last
> > year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they get a
> > "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all have in
> > common is a LACK OF DETAIL.
> 
> Whose who know they way around don't have such problems. Whose who don't
> are unable to describe it. I see nothing unusual in this.
> 
> My suggestion to OP - try Tor, see if it works.
> 
> 
> > At this point nobody knows how to diagnose the problem, because nobody
> > who HAS the problem is willing or able to come forward and just say what
> > is happening and why.  Is it a DNS resolution error, in which they're
> > getting the wrong IP address?
> 
> No. Browsers do certificate validation, "wrong IP address" would be
> possible if the third party somehow produced a valid certificate for
> wiki.debian.org (you have to be a CA *or* the government to do this) and
> faked a DNS record (that's easy part).
> 
> > Does the wiki or its front-end web server have a firewall that
> > blacklists certain IP address ranges?
> 
> Even if it did, the firewall have not come into play.
> Since the user saw HTTP 403 it means that HTTPS connection was
> established successfully, and a front-end (or back-end) webserver gave
> 403 code, which was transferred to a user.
> 
> >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
I was using Opera  browser,so quick,  but I just tried with firefox, so slow, 
but both mozilla, and the result is the same when google search ( which I don't 
use with  Opera)  gives me a lot of choices , all with 403 result. My  public 
IP, 88.170.1.143 is the one my provider ( free.fr=proxad.fr)  gave me.
> 
> Hardly. Of course OP could use some ancient toy browser that does not do
> SNI, 
what is  SNI?
> but wiki.debian.org provides a correct certificate even for
> *those*. It's easy to check with (openssl does not use SNI unless you
> ask for it):
> 
> openssl s_client -host wiki.debian.org -port 443
> 
> Reco
> 
Will my comments help?
Jacques

Re: wiki

[Brian]

On Fri 16 Feb 2018 at 16:58:49 +, Andy Smith wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:38:49AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the last
> > year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they get a
> > "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all have in
> > common is a LACK OF DETAIL.
> 
> I seem to recall some comments made by someone in the know that
> there is extensive IP-based blocking used on wiki.debian.org within
> the web server and this sometimes causes collateral damage, i.e.
> some people unable even to read the site, let alone modify it.
> Unfortunately I can't remember any more details than that.

IP-based blocking is most probably the cause. The reason for it is
to prevent the wiki being spammed and reducing its usefulness for all
users. 

> I was going to say that it could be worth OP's time to create a bug
> against the wiki, and I already see this one:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this would tend to support the possibility of this being
> the culprit, though the lack of resolution here does suggest the OP
> may have a long road ahead if that is the case.

No bug reports, please. The preferred way is to report the details of
the issue by mail to w...@debian.org.

-- 
Brian.

Re: wiki

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 16 February 2018 11:53:44 Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:38:49AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:30:31AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > > Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a 
écrit :
> > > > > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques 
wrote:
> > > > > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > > > > Forbidden
> > > > > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > > > > is the message I get.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having
> > > > > trouble with? (What is its URL?)
> > > >
> > > > I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on
> > > > various problems.
> > >
> > > Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems
> > > navigating the site.
> > > Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.
> >
> > The original message was so incredibly vague that it could mean
> > anything.
> >
> > But.
> >
> > If the actual complaint is "I get 403 Forbidden on
> > https://wiki.debian.org; then we need additional detail: what
> > version of Debian the OP is using, what browser, and any unusual
> > aspects of the OP's network that could be relevant (workplace
> > firewall, China firewall, etc.).
>
> My crystal ball says that OP is using home connection, and no, these
> details aren't needed. tcpdump/wireshark capture, combined with the
> SSL session key - that's what needed.
> Or someone from 11AS12322 willing to provide a temporary shell
> account.
>
> E-mail headers say that e-mail came from 11AS12322 belonging to some
> French provider:
>
> Received: from ns.rodary.net (unknown [88.170.1.143])
> by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154405FF27
> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 02:42:15
> +0100 (CET)
>
> With MUA which is uncommon in dull enterprise world:
>
> User-Agent: KMail/5.2.3 (Linux/4.9.0-5-amd64; KDE/5.28.0; x86_64; ; )
>
> I believe we can exclude such possibilities as China Great Firewall
> (unless they installed it in France for some reason), or workplace SSL
> Bump (else OP won't see HTTP 403).
>
> > There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the
> > last year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they
> > get a "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all
> > have in common is a LACK OF DETAIL.
>
> Whose who know they way around don't have such problems. Whose who
> don't are unable to describe it. I see nothing unusual in this.
>
> My suggestion to OP - try Tor, see if it works.
>
> > At this point nobody knows how to diagnose the problem, because
> > nobody who HAS the problem is willing or able to come forward and
> > just say what is happening and why.  Is it a DNS resolution error,
> > in which they're getting the wrong IP address?
>
> No. Browsers do certificate validation, "wrong IP address" would be
> possible if the third party somehow produced a valid certificate for
> wiki.debian.org (you have to be a CA *or* the government to do this)
> and faked a DNS record (that's easy part).
>
> > Does the wiki or its front-end web server have a firewall that
> > blacklists certain IP address ranges?
>
> Even if it did, the firewall have not come into play.
> Since the user saw HTTP 403 it means that HTTPS connection was
> established successfully, and a front-end (or back-end) webserver gave
> 403 code, which was transferred to a user.
>
> >  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!
>
> Hardly. Of course OP could use some ancient toy browser that does not
> do SNI, but wiki.debian.org provides a correct certificate even for
> *those*. It's easy to check with (openssl does not use SNI unless you
> ask for it):
>
> openssl s_client -host wiki.debian.org -port 443
>
> Reco

That is quite a verbose tool, thank you Reco for enlightening me.


-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: wiki

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:38:49AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the last
> year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they get a
> "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all have in
> common is a LACK OF DETAIL.

I seem to recall some comments made by someone in the know that
there is extensive IP-based blocking used on wiki.debian.org within
the web server and this sometimes causes collateral damage, i.e.
some people unable even to read the site, let alone modify it.
Unfortunately I can't remember any more details than that.

I was going to say that it could be worth OP's time to create a bug
against the wiki, and I already see this one:



I think this would tend to support the possibility of this being
the culprit, though the lack of resolution here does suggest the OP
may have a long road ahead if that is the case.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
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Re: wiki

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:38:49AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:30:31AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > 
> > > Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > > > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > > > Forbidden
> > > > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > > > is the message I get.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble
> > > > with? (What is its URL?)
> > >
> > > I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various
> > > problems.
> > 
> > Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems navigating 
> > the site.
> > Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.
> 
> The original message was so incredibly vague that it could mean anything.
> 
> But.
> 
> If the actual complaint is "I get 403 Forbidden on https://wiki.debian.org;
> then we need additional detail: what version of Debian the OP is using,
> what browser, and any unusual aspects of the OP's network that could
> be relevant (workplace firewall, China firewall, etc.).

My crystal ball says that OP is using home connection, and no, these
details aren't needed. tcpdump/wireshark capture, combined with the SSL
session key - that's what needed.
Or someone from 11AS12322 willing to provide a temporary shell account.

E-mail headers say that e-mail came from 11AS12322 belonging to some
French provider:

Received: from ns.rodary.net (unknown [88.170.1.143])
by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154405FF27
for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 02:42:15 +0100 
(CET)

With MUA which is uncommon in dull enterprise world:

User-Agent: KMail/5.2.3 (Linux/4.9.0-5-amd64; KDE/5.28.0; x86_64; ; )

I believe we can exclude such possibilities as China Great Firewall
(unless they installed it in France for some reason), or workplace SSL
Bump (else OP won't see HTTP 403).


> There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the last
> year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they get a
> "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all have in
> common is a LACK OF DETAIL.

Whose who know they way around don't have such problems. Whose who don't
are unable to describe it. I see nothing unusual in this.

My suggestion to OP - try Tor, see if it works.


> At this point nobody knows how to diagnose the problem, because nobody
> who HAS the problem is willing or able to come forward and just say what
> is happening and why.  Is it a DNS resolution error, in which they're
> getting the wrong IP address?

No. Browsers do certificate validation, "wrong IP address" would be
possible if the third party somehow produced a valid certificate for
wiki.debian.org (you have to be a CA *or* the government to do this) and
faked a DNS record (that's easy part).

> Does the wiki or its front-end web server have a firewall that
> blacklists certain IP address ranges?

Even if it did, the firewall have not come into play.
Since the user saw HTTP 403 it means that HTTPS connection was
established successfully, and a front-end (or back-end) webserver gave
403 code, which was transferred to a user.

>  Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!

Hardly. Of course OP could use some ancient toy browser that does not do
SNI, but wiki.debian.org provides a correct certificate even for
*those*. It's easy to check with (openssl does not use SNI unless you
ask for it):

openssl s_client -host wiki.debian.org -port 443

Reco

Re: wiki

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 16 February 2018 10:38:49 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:30:31AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a 
écrit :
> > > > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > > > Forbidden
> > > > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > > > is the message I get.
> > > >
> > > > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having
> > > > trouble with? (What is its URL?)
> > >
> > > I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on
> > > various problems.
> >
> > Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems
> > navigating the site.
> > Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.
>
> The original message was so incredibly vague that it could mean
> anything.
>
> But.
>
> If the actual complaint is "I get 403 Forbidden on
> https://wiki.debian.org; then we need additional detail: what version
> of Debian the OP is using, what browser, and any unusual aspects of
> the OP's network that could be relevant (workplace firewall, China
> firewall, etc.).
>
> There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the
> last year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they
> get a "403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all
> have in common is a LACK OF DETAIL.
>
> At this point nobody knows how to diagnose the problem, because nobody
> who HAS the problem is willing or able to come forward and just say
> what is happening and why.  Is it a DNS resolution error, in which
> they're getting the wrong IP address?  Does the wiki or its front-end
> web server have a firewall that blacklists certain IP address ranges? 
> Is it a web browser bug?  Nobody knows!

That also is spot on Greg. Which is why I specified my install in my 
comment, but failed to mention it is a 32 bit install. Thats linuxcnc 
driven because a context switch takes measurably longer on a 64 bit 
system.

The changeover to 64 bit is forceing some of us to spend upwards of 200 
dollars to offload some of linuxcnc's work to fpga cards because even 
the rtai patched kernels just aren't fast enough to generate in 
software, the steady step signals the stepper motors need.  Thats about 
how much I have in the 4 card stack driving an 11x36 Sheldon lathe from 
a raspberry pi-3b. But we still need IRQ responses in not less than 
millisecond times. So we patch kernels, and on real machinery, then pin 
them so the software updater cannot kill the machine. But I think that 
has been discussed here previously.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: wiki

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 10:30:31AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:
> 
> > Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > > Forbidden
> > > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > > is the message I get.
> > >
> > > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble
> > > with? (What is its URL?)
> >
> > I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various
> > problems.
> 
> Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems navigating 
> the site.
> Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.

The original message was so incredibly vague that it could mean anything.

But.

If the actual complaint is "I get 403 Forbidden on https://wiki.debian.org;
then we need additional detail: what version of Debian the OP is using,
what browser, and any unusual aspects of the OP's network that could
be relevant (workplace firewall, China firewall, etc.).

There have been several similar complaints in #debian IRC over the last
year or two, with random people coming in and saying that they get a
"403 Forbidden" on the Debian wiki, but the one thing they all have in
common is a LACK OF DETAIL.

At this point nobody knows how to diagnose the problem, because nobody
who HAS the problem is willing or able to come forward and just say what
is happening and why.  Is it a DNS resolution error, in which they're
getting the wrong IP address?  Does the wiki or its front-end web server
have a firewall that blacklists certain IP address ranges?  Is it a
web browser bug?  Nobody knows!

Re: wiki

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 16 February 2018 07:08:57 Rodary Jacques wrote:

> Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :
> > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > > Forbidden
> > > You are not allowed to access this!
> > > is the message I get.
> >
> > I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble
> > with? (What is its URL?)
>
> I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various
> problems.
>
> > Maybe you have to register and then login on that wiki.
>
> and I was never asked to register before you mention it.
>   Jacques

Old but uptodate wheezy install here. firefox had no problems navigating 
the site.
Perhaps your http->S<- is defective somehow.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: wiki

[Richard Owlett]

On 02/16/2018 06:08 AM, Rodary Jacques wrote:

Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:

Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
Forbidden
You are not allowed to access this!
is the message I get.


I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble with?
(What is its URL?)

I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various problems.

Maybe you have to register and then login on that wiki.

and I was never asked to register before you mention it.



I checked, https://wiki.debian.org is up and it is not a site requiring 
a login to view.


The next set of questions:
  1. What browser are you using?
   Do have any extensions/add-ons/etc enabled?
   Does your browser have a "safe" mode that disables them?
  2. Do other sites work?
(e.g. can you access your preferred search engine?)
  3. Are there other sites with problems? Which?
HTH

Re: wiki

[Rodary Jacques]

Le vendredi 16 février 2018, 06:42:52 CET rhkra...@gmail.com a écrit :
> On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> > Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> > Forbidden
> > You are not allowed to access this!
> > is the message I get.
> 
> I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble with?  
> (What is its URL?)
I first had this message on  https://wiki.debian.org, then on various problems.
> Maybe you have to register and then login on that wiki.
and I was never asked to register before you mention it. 
Jacques 

Re: wiki

[rhkramer]

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 08:42:14 PM Rodary Jacques wrote:
> Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> Forbidden
> You are not allowed to access this!
> is the message I get.

I think we need more information--which wiki are you having trouble with?  
(What is its URL?)

Maybe you have to register and then login on that wiki.

Re: wiki

[Andy Smith]

Hi Rodary,

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 02:42:14AM +0100, Rodary Jacques wrote:
> Why can't I access wikis from a Debian box:
> Forbidden
> You are not allowed to access this!
> is the message I get.

On this list we enjoy a challenge and I'm afraid that trying every
version of every different browser in every release of Debian against
every wiki on the Internet to try to replicate or understand your
problem is too simple for us.

Can you please try again at a later date with a query that contains
less information about your issue, in order to make it more suitable
to us.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
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Re: wiki debian - installing on

[Adriano Rafael Gomes]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 08:37:21PM -0200, Gustavo Rodrigues wrote:
> Boa noite, pessoal.
> Eu comprei um laptop lenovo g40-80, e eu gostaria de contribuir com a
> wiki do Debian adicionando uma página explicando como funciona o modelo,
> assim como o que se deve fazer para configurá-lo depois (são necessários
> alguns pacotes não-livres e atualizar o xserver-xorg-intel).
> Como eu posso fazer para poder editar a wiki? 

Gustavo, talvez você queira isso:
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/HowToContribute


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Re: Wiki Debian

[Antonio Terceiro]

On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:24:08AM -0300, Listeiro 037 wrote:
 
 Não. É por causa de deixarem uma página de cadastro que não cadastra e
 pedirem para enviar um e-mail. Teria algum critério para participar,
 sei lá, fiquei inseguro. O e-mail deve ser enviado apenas em inglês?
 Tem alguma fase de experiência?

pela mensagem, você deve ter caído num filtro antispam automático¹.
Simplesmente escreve pra eles (sim, precisa ser em inglês) dizendo que
você queria criar uma conta, e que recebeu essa mensagem.  Eles devem de
colocar uma whitelist e aí você consegue se cadastrar.

¹ pode ser o email do yahoo, que spammers adoram usar, pode ser o fato
  de que você usa um pseudonimo meio esquisito ao invés do seu nome
  verdadeiro, ou as duas coisas juntas, ou alguma outra coisa.

-- 
Antonio Terceiro terce...@debian.org


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Re: Wiki Debian

[Antonio Terceiro]

On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:53:00PM -0300, Listeiro 037 wrote:
 
 Agradeço, mas já fui nesta página e retorna esta mensagem:
 
 Account creation failed: Due to an ongoing spam attack, this wiki is
 configured to not automatically create wiki accounts for some users.
 Please contact w...@debian.org first if you wish to create an account..

e você fez isso (contactar w...@debian.org)?

-- 
Antonio Terceiro terce...@debian.org


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Re: Wiki Debian

[Listeiro 037]

Não. É por causa de deixarem uma página de cadastro que não cadastra e
pedirem para enviar um e-mail. Teria algum critério para participar,
sei lá, fiquei inseguro. O e-mail deve ser enviado apenas em inglês?
Tem alguma fase de experiência?

Em Wed, 25 Feb 2015 11:49:26 -0300
Antonio Terceiro terce...@debian.org escreveu:

 On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:53:00PM -0300, Listeiro 037 wrote:
  
  Agradeço, mas já fui nesta página e retorna esta mensagem:
  
  Account creation failed: Due to an ongoing spam attack, this wiki is
  configured to not automatically create wiki accounts for some users.
  Please contact w...@debian.org first if you wish to create an
  account..
 
 e você fez isso (contactar w...@debian.org)?
 


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Re: Wiki Debian

[Paulo Henrique Santana]

- Mensagem original -
 De: Listeiro 037 listeiro_...@yahoo.com.br
 
 Caros, bom dia.
 
 Como me inscrevo na Debian Wiki.

https://wiki.debian.org/FrontPage?action=newaccount

Abs

-- 
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Curador de Software Livre da Campus Party Brasil
Tim:  (41) 9638-1897
Vivo: (41) 9198-1897
Site: http://www.phls.com.br
Jabber: p...@jabber.org
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/phls00
GNU/Linux user: 228719  GPG ID: 0443C450


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Re: Wiki Debian

[Listeiro 037]

Agradeço, mas já fui nesta página e retorna esta mensagem:

Account creation failed: Due to an ongoing spam attack, this wiki is
configured to not automatically create wiki accounts for some users.
Please contact w...@debian.org first if you wish to create an account..


Em Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:15:59 -0300 (BRT)
Paulo Henrique Santana p...@softwarelivre.org escreveu:

 
 
 - Mensagem original -
  De: Listeiro 037 listeiro_...@yahoo.com.br
  
  Caros, bom dia.
  
  Como me inscrevo na Debian Wiki.
 
 https://wiki.debian.org/FrontPage?action=newaccount
 
 Abs
 


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Re: wiki page vlan_raw_device or vlan-raw-device

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 29 mar 13, 14:10:54, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
 
 Can someone make sure that page gets modified? Is currently has the 
 status Immutable page
 As that page is the top ranking page when looking for Debian vlan it 
 seems this page had better be correct.

It shows that only as long as you are not logged in. If you still have 
troubles contact debian-www.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Wiki Debian

[Walter O. Dari]

Hola...

El 02/03/12 19:08, JAP escribió:


http://wiki.debian.org/Compartir_red_fisica_con_WiFi

Aporte del día, por si a alguno le interesa.
No es nada nuevo, pero está escrito en castellano y un poco más claro
que lo que encontré por ahí.


Se agradece... no haberlo visto antes...  :-)


JAP


Saludos,
Walter

http://swcomputacion.com/


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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[JC]

Bonjour,

 je dois installer un serveur wiki 

J'aime beaucoup dokuwiki.
Moins lourd à mettre en place qu'un mastodonte comme mediawiki.
Nombreux plugins ...
Voir site officiel.

 - ihm 
Assez intuitif à mes yeux.

 - syntaxes tolérées
Syntaxe wiki.
Tu peux aussi intégrer du html ou PHP si vraiment motivé.

 - facilité d'imports de docs type .odt et autres
Import je ne sais pas (jamais utilisé) mais export je sais que ça
existe.


Cordialement.
-- 
Salutations.
Jean-Claude

Compromis : Ancien nom pour les fiançailles. 
Ex: Un contenu vaut mieux que deux compromis.

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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Bernard Schoenacker]

Le Mon, 15 Aug 2011 11:58:42 +0200,
jerome moliere jerome.moli...@gmail.com a écrit :

 Bonjour à tous ,
 je dois installer un serveur wiki sur une dedibox pro propulsée par
 une squeeze 64 bits
 j'aimerai avoir vos retours sur les différénts produits disponibles
 dans les repo standards (ou éventuellement en dehors)
 Pas la peine de me faire un apt-cache search |grep wiki |grep -i
 engine ou autre je sais faire seul par contre je n'ai pas le temps
 d'en installer et manipuler une dizaine jusqu'à trouver le bon
 Le wiki est a destination d'un projet sur lequel on sera environ 5 ou
 6 à intervenir et pas à plein temps donc je ne pense pas qu'il y ait
 de soucis de perfs à prendre en compte par contre ce qui est plus
 important à mes yeux:
 - ihm
 - syntaxes tolérées
 - facilité d'imports de docs type .odt et autres
 

bonjour,


puisque c'est jérôme :

apt-cache search wiki blog |grep java

java pô vu qu'il faille être le plus simple possible :

textile
hobix

autrement, avec libreoffice : mediawiki


documentation :

http://redcloth.org/hobix.com/textile/

http://debian.stevenrosenberg.net/index.php/2011/03/04/more-blogging-systems-with-debian-as-a-guide/




slt
bernard


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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Olivier Pavilla]

Le 15/08/2011 11:58, jerome moliere a écrit :
 Bonjour à tous ,
 je dois installer un serveur wiki sur une dedibox pro propulsée par
 une squeeze 64 bits
 j'aimerai avoir vos retours sur les différénts produits disponibles
 dans les repo standards (ou éventuellement en dehors)

Au taf, j'ai installé dokuwiki sur les vieilles bécanes en squeeze ou
lenny 32 bits. Et Mediawiki sur les serveurs en Squeeze 64bits.
J'ai fait des imports de documentations et tutos (de notre ancien wiki
en html statique) vers mediawiki sans aucun problème.
Sur les serveurs embarquant mediawiki que j'ai installé, il y a un admin
et 4 ou 5 rédacteurs.



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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le 15/08/2011 12:06, Olivier Pavilla a écrit :

Le 15/08/2011 11:58, jerome moliere a écrit :

Bonjour à tous ,
je dois installer un serveur wiki sur une dedibox pro propulsée par
une squeeze 64 bits
j'aimerai avoir vos retours sur les différénts produits disponibles
dans les repo standards (ou éventuellement en dehors)

Au taf, j'ai installé dokuwiki sur les vieilles bécanes en squeeze ou
lenny 32 bits. Et Mediawiki sur les serveurs en Squeeze 64bits.
J'ai fait des imports de documentations et tutos (de notre ancien wiki
en html statique) vers mediawiki sans aucun problème.
Sur les serveurs embarquant mediawiki que j'ai installé, il y a un admin
et 4 ou 5 rédacteurs.
Un GROS avantage de dokuwiki par rapport à mediawiki, c'est qu'il n'a 
pas besoin de base de donnée !

Donc, moins de maintenance, sauvegarde et récupération simplifié...

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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Jean-Yves F. Barbier]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 14:51:12 +0200, Gilles Mocellin gilles.mocel...@free.fr
wrote:

 Un GROS avantage de dokuwiki par rapport à mediawiki, c'est qu'il n'a 
 pas besoin de base de donnée !
 Donc, moins de maintenance, sauvegarde et récupération simplifié...

+1
Que du bonheur à utiliser, pas de DB mais un excellent cache paramétrable
qui, avec le cache système est presque aussi rapide, des tas de plugins 
(mais en fait seuls 4 ou 5 sont réellement utiles en prod, renommage des
pages par ex).
Mediawiki c'est l'usine à gaz, plutôt pour les sites ≥ 30-50k pages.

Grosse communauté s/s doku et yaka 'gader le source d'une page de wiki pour
s'apercevoir que très souvent on le retrouve aux Cdes (doku.php dans le source)

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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Olivier Pavilla]

Le 15/08/2011 15:51, Jean-Yves F. Barbier a écrit :
[cut]

 Mediawiki c'est l'usine à gaz, plutôt pour les sites ≥ 30-50k pages.
Je vois pas trop en quoi est ce une usine à gaz. Avoir une DB MySql,
c'est pas la mère à boire sauf si on a des serveurs avec des CPUs 386sx25.
Pour Info. Dokuwiki et sa fonction de ramène à l'époque de ncsa mosaic
et du premier search engine Altavista, c'est pénible à l'utilisation.




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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Bernard Schoenacker]

Le Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:00:20 +0200,
Olivier Pavilla olivier.pavi...@linux-squad.com a écrit :

 Le 15/08/2011 15:51, Jean-Yves F. Barbier a écrit :
 [cut]
 
  Mediawiki c'est l'usine à gaz, plutôt pour les sites ≥ 30-50k pages.
 Je vois pas trop en quoi est ce une usine à gaz. Avoir une DB MySql,
 c'est pas la mère à boire sauf si on a des serveurs avec des CPUs
 386sx25. Pour Info. Dokuwiki et sa fonction de ramène à l'époque de
 ncsa mosaic et du premier search engine Altavista, c'est pénible à
 l'utilisation.
 
 
bonjour,


pour le moteur de recherche c'est htdig couplé avec mosaïc c'est
le retour des dinosaures 

slt
bernard

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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[Jean-Yves F. Barbier]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:00:20 +0200, Olivier Pavilla
olivier.pavi...@linux-squad.com wrote:

  Mediawiki c'est l'usine à gaz, plutôt pour les sites ≥ 30-50k pages.
 Je vois pas trop en quoi est ce une usine à gaz. Avoir une DB MySql,
 c'est pas la mère à boire sauf si on a des serveurs avec des CPUs 386sx25.

D'abord, j'évite toujours de boire ma mère, sauf à Noël...

Après, il y a justement des tas de vieilles machines qui, sans revenir au 386,
n'ont pas bcp de RAM ni de puissance, mais conviennent farpaitement en tant
que server HTTP + Wiki (je pense notamment à quelques P2/P3 450/500 qui
au lieu de traîner dans une cave sont l'idéal pour cela, mais ne peuvent
accepter que 384MB de RAM).

 Pour Info. Dokuwiki et sa fonction de ramène à l'époque de ncsa mosaic
 et du premier search engine Altavista, c'est pénible à l'utilisation.

En QUOI est-ce pénible???

* On doit toujours taper ses pages avec une syntaxe particulière et simplifiée,

* Retrouver une page est aussi rapide que dans un autre wiki,

* Le rendering n'est fait qu'une seule fois (contrairement à d'autres wikis qui
  considère que le temps gagné avec une DB est bon à rebouffer avec un
  recalcul de la page à chaque accès),

* Le système de cache (hiérarchique + hash des pages) allié au cache system
  est pratiquement aussi performant qu'une DB,
 
* Si mes souvenirs sont bons, pour ceux qui veulent il existe un plugin
  permettant d'utiliser une DB *vraiment* rapide et ayant une empreinte
  RAM ridicule: sqlite,

* Pour copier un DokuWiki, il suffit de copier le directory où se trouvent les
  fichiers et il se charge tout seul comme un grand de reconstruire les index
  et les liens,

* Dernier point, et non des moindres: vu le nombre d'admins qui ont choisi
  DokuWiki il ne semble pas que son exploitation/utilisation soit si pénible
  que ça - et sachant qu'il suffit de quelques scripts pour être à même de
  basculer d'une syntaxe de wiki à une autre, s'il n'était pas performant cela
  ferait longtemps que ces admins l'auraient remplacé.
  Après, tout dépend de ce que l'on souhaite faire; si on veut refaire
  wikipedia il est évident qu'il faut des moyens techniques
  dimensionnés, si c'est pour un wiki normal | de la doc technique sur un
  site (même très fréquenté), DokuWiki convient farpaitement.

Je parle d'autant plus en connaissance de cause que j'ai fais des tests juste
avant l'été sur un micro non-dédié avec C1.4GHz+760MB de RAM+X et que j'ai pu
voir ce que pas mal de wikis faisaient, ou plutôt étaient incapables de faire
malgré leurs prétentions.
Je ne parle même pas de la prise en main (certains nécessitent une bonne
1/2 heure de mise en place avant même de pouvoir taper un seul mot...)
N'oublions pas non-plus la taille de communauté et le nombre de plugins, qui
font toute la différence quand ça coince.

Il faudrait ptêt aussi arrêter la fuite en avant vers la puissance, telle qu'on
la trouve sur le web où de plus en plus de sites sont tellement mal écrits
qu'il faut un core2 duo pour y accéder avec une vitesse correcte.
Si j'ai besoin d'une tapette à mouche, je ne vais pas aller décrocher le fusil
de chasse.

Pour ceux qui veulent un aperçu de la dispo: http://www.wikimatrix.org/ (mais
cela ne vous dispensera en aucun cas de faire vos propres tests: on a souvent
de grosses surprises lors d'un test in-situ...)

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Re: Wiki sur debian squeeze

[JC]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 17:00:20 +0200
Olivier Pavilla olivier.pavi...@linux-squad.com wrote:


  Mediawiki c'est l'usine à gaz

Niveau administration DokuWiki est a des années lumières (plus proche) 
que mediaWiki. C'est un argument important à mes yeux.

Après c'est vrai que mon sentiment c'est que mediaWiki c'est la grosse machine
pour faire un wikipedia-like.
Faut voir l'usage qu'on en a aussi.

Cordialement.
-- 
Salutations.
Jean-Claude

Parole : Chose qui ne vaut si peu qu'on la donne.


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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Camaleón]

El Tue, 05 Jul 2011 16:21:41 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:

 El día 5 de julio de 2011 15:41, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:

(...)

 También podrías pedir consejo a los encargados de la wiki, te podrán
 orientar mejor sobre cuál sería la mejor sección:

 http://wiki.debian.org/es/DebianWiki

 Además de que el contenido en español es muy pobre. Los invito a la
 traducción, si les es posible.

 Pues sí, traductores y/o documentalistas siempre hacen falta :-)
 
 Sí, yo que no soy programador, intento cuando tengo tiempo hacer algo al
 respecto. Lastima de mi pobre inglés, por eso la invitación a la lista.
 Estoy comenzando con algo de la página en español, un trabajo que dice
 iniciado en el 2006 :-/

En Debian hay bastantes cosas para traducir y sitios en los que 
colaborar... tantos que desde el punto de vista del usuario puede 
resultar apabullante: demasiados datos, demasiada información y 
caóticamente clasificada :-P

Desde el punto de las traducciones, creo que hace falta una guía de esas 
tipo panfleto donde se exponga claramente en qué proyectos se puede 
colaborar y qué es lo que hay que hacer. En 3 o 4 pasos sencillos, para 
que la persona que vaya a colaborar pueda ver el dibujo completo del 
sistema de traducciones, para que tenga una imagen global. Una guía breve 
y eminentemente práctica porque de verdad que meterse a traducir sin 
saber de qué va la cosa da un poco de susto :-}

En cuanto a la wiki, pues la verdad es que me da mucha pereza traducirla, 
la wiki es muy poco agradecida porque los procesos (cómo hacer las cosas) 
cambian al poco tiempo y no se saborea apenas la traducción que haces, 
hay que estar modificando continuamente las páginas para que la 
información resulte de utilidad y la verdad, es muy pesado. 

Yo prefiero traducir las plantillas de Debian o los programitas y en eso 
estoy. Así que aprovecho para hacer campaña de captación de traductores 
que nunca está de más... si os animáis, daros de alta en la lista¹ donde 
se coordinan las traducciones y preparaos para sufrir :-)

¹http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-spanish/

Saludos,

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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Camaleón]

El Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:13:31 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:

 Buscando como configurar el cursor en openbox, he querido ponerlo en la
 wiki de Debian. Al revisar la wiki en español, no he visto claro donde
 ponerlo. 

¿Has pensando en crear una nueva página en español de esta inglesa?

http://wiki.debian.org/Openbox

Luego podrías añadir la información del cursor dentro de algún apartado 
(Trucos o algo así).

También podrías pedir consejo a los encargados de la wiki, te podrán 
orientar mejor sobre cuál sería la mejor sección:

http://wiki.debian.org/es/DebianWiki

 Además de que el contenido en español es muy pobre. Los invito a la
 traducción, si les es posible.

Pues sí, traductores y/o documentalistas siempre hacen falta :-)

Saludos,

-- 
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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Marcos Delgado]

El día 5 de julio de 2011 15:41, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
 El Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:13:31 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:

 Buscando como configurar el cursor en openbox, he querido ponerlo en la
 wiki de Debian. Al revisar la wiki en español, no he visto claro donde
 ponerlo.

 ¿Has pensando en crear una nueva página en español de esta inglesa?

 http://wiki.debian.org/Openbox

 Luego podrías añadir la información del cursor dentro de algún apartado
 (Trucos o algo así).

Me gusta la idea. Voy a ver.

 También podrías pedir consejo a los encargados de la wiki, te podrán
 orientar mejor sobre cuál sería la mejor sección:

 http://wiki.debian.org/es/DebianWiki

 Además de que el contenido en español es muy pobre. Los invito a la
 traducción, si les es posible.

 Pues sí, traductores y/o documentalistas siempre hacen falta :-)

Sí, yo que no soy programador, intento cuando tengo tiempo hacer algo
al respecto. Lastima de mi pobre inglés, por eso la invitación a la
lista. Estoy comenzando con algo de la página en español, un trabajo
que dice iniciado en el 2006 :-/

 Saludos,

 --
 Camaleón




Saludos.
Marcos Delgado


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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Gonzalo Rivero]

El mar, 05-07-2011 a las 16:21 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:
 El día 5 de julio de 2011 15:41, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
  El Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:13:31 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:
 
  Buscando como configurar el cursor en openbox, he querido ponerlo en la
  wiki de Debian. Al revisar la wiki en español, no he visto claro donde
  ponerlo.
 
  ¿Has pensando en crear una nueva página en español de esta inglesa?
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/Openbox
 
  Luego podrías añadir la información del cursor dentro de algún apartado
  (Trucos o algo así).
 
 Me gusta la idea. Voy a ver.
 
  También podrías pedir consejo a los encargados de la wiki, te podrán
  orientar mejor sobre cuál sería la mejor sección:
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/es/DebianWiki
 
  Además de que el contenido en español es muy pobre. Los invito a la
  traducción, si les es posible.
 
  Pues sí, traductores y/o documentalistas siempre hacen falta :-)
 
 Sí, yo que no soy programador, intento cuando tengo tiempo hacer algo
 al respecto. Lastima de mi pobre inglés, por eso la invitación a la
 lista. Estoy comenzando con algo de la página en español, un trabajo
 que dice iniciado en el 2006 :-/

pensé que se había roto mi evolution trayendo a la vida temas tratados
en 2006...
en fin, si quieren leer el tema de ese año, la discusión empezó por
aquí:
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/2006/01/msg02259.html


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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Marcos Delgado]

El día 5 de julio de 2011 17:01, Gonzalo Rivero
fishfromsa...@gmail.com escribió:
 El mar, 05-07-2011 a las 16:21 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:
 El día 5 de julio de 2011 15:41, Camaleón noela...@gmail.com escribió:
  El Tue, 05 Jul 2011 14:13:31 -0500, Marcos Delgado escribió:
 
  Buscando como configurar el cursor en openbox, he querido ponerlo en la
  wiki de Debian. Al revisar la wiki en español, no he visto claro donde
  ponerlo.
 
  ¿Has pensando en crear una nueva página en español de esta inglesa?
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/Openbox
 
  Luego podrías añadir la información del cursor dentro de algún apartado
  (Trucos o algo así).

 Me gusta la idea. Voy a ver.

  También podrías pedir consejo a los encargados de la wiki, te podrán
  orientar mejor sobre cuál sería la mejor sección:
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/es/DebianWiki
 
  Además de que el contenido en español es muy pobre. Los invito a la
  traducción, si les es posible.
 
  Pues sí, traductores y/o documentalistas siempre hacen falta :-)

 Sí, yo que no soy programador, intento cuando tengo tiempo hacer algo
 al respecto. Lastima de mi pobre inglés, por eso la invitación a la
 lista. Estoy comenzando con algo de la página en español, un trabajo
 que dice iniciado en el 2006 :-/

 pensé que se había roto mi evolution trayendo a la vida temas tratados
 en 2006...
 en fin, si quieren leer el tema de ese año, la discusión empezó por
 aquí:
  http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/2006/01/msg02259.html


Pues si, es cuestión de tiempo, ganas, etc. Hay quien le gusta más
perseguir otras cosas.

Saludos.
Marcos Delgado.


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Re: wiki - mot de passe sans @mail

[xorox]

Le 20 mars 2009 04:47, Remys.Morrissette remys.morrisse...@gmail.com a
écrit :

 Bonjour,

 je ne sais pas où m'adresser, alors je le fais ici.

 sur le wiki de debian, http://wiki.debian.org/

 j'ai perdu mon mot de passe, et j'ai changé d'adresse électronique,
 mais je désire conserver le même identifiant.

 Quelqu'un connais une procédure

 Merci.

 --
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  debian-user-french-requ...@lists.debian.org


Bonjour,

pour ce genre de problème, je vous conseil de poster sur une autre
mailing-list plus approprié (debian-...@lists.debian.org)

Cordialement.
xorox

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Re: Wiki

[Gilles Mocellin]

Le Sunday 03 August 2008 07:25:05 Mumia W.., vous avez écrit :
 On 08/02/2008 11:34 PM, sadeq zabihi wrote:
  Hello Dear
 
  I am tring to install a wiki software on Debian (server) on my network.
  But I dont know which wiki software is better for my project (it is not a
  big project) and how i can install it on debian server. It it is possible
  for you please help me about both (wiki software and Debian)
 
  best Regards.
  Sadeq Zabihi
  Herat - Afghanistan
 
  Send instant messages to your online friends
  http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

 There are many wiki packages for Debian. Run this command:

 aptitude search wiki

 I recommend mediawiki since it's the most popular.

But really not the simpler.

Dokuwiki does not use a database, it's really simple to install and manage.

Concerning the debian way of install a package on Debian, just use aptitude :
# aptitude install dokuwiki





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Re: Wiki

[Magnus Therning]

sadeq zabihi wrote:
 Hello Dear
  
 I am tring to install a wiki software on Debian (server) on my network.
 But I dont know which wiki software is better for my project (it is
 not a big project) and how i can install it on debian server.
 It it is possible for you please help me about both (wiki software and
 Debian)
  
 best Regards.
 Sadeq Zabihi
 Herat - Afghanistan



It might be worth having a look at trac, it's a combination of wiki, VCS
web interface, and issue tracker.

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus＠therning．org
http://therning.org/magnus

Haskell is an even 'redder' pill than Lisp or Scheme.
 -- PaulPotts




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Re: Wiki

[Jon Dowland]

[ oops - replied to OP ]

You'll probably get a different answer from each person, but I think
ikiwiki is one of the best ones since it is very flexible and you can
easily get your data out of  it again should you want to (unlike
mediawiki)


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Re: Wiki

[Jerry]

sadeq zabihi wrote:
 I am tring to install a wiki software on Debian (server) on my network.
 But I dont know which wiki software is better for my project (it is not
 a big project) and how i can install it on debian server.
 It it is possible for you please help me about both (wiki software and
 Debian)

   Personally my vote goes for Mediawiki.  I like how easy it is to edit
and format.


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Re: Wiki

[Joseph Neal]

sadeq zabihi wrote:


 I am tring to install a wiki software on Debian (server) on my network.
 But I dont know which wiki software is better for my project (it is not a
 big project) and how i can install it on debian server. It it is possible
 for you please help me about both (wiki software and Debian)

I'm using moinmoin for one site because it works with FCKeditor and I have
many non-technical users who dislike writing markup of any kind.

Once you install moinmoin-common and python-moinmoin, follow the
instructions in /usr/share/doc/moinmoin-common/README.Debian.  Be aware of
this documentation bug:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=395137

For small project Dokuwiki works well.

While it's not in debian, I really like WikkaWikki 

http://wikkawiki.org/HomePage




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Re: Wiki

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:40:57 +0100, Jon Dowland wrote:

 [ oops - replied to OP ]
 
 You'll probably get a different answer from each person, but I think
 ikiwiki is one of the best ones since it is very flexible and you can
 easily get your data out of  it again should you want to (unlike
 mediawiki)

I've heard ikiwiki has recently been integrated with monotone.  I suppose
that could give a distributed wiki.

-- hendrik


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Re: Wiki

[Mumia W..]

On 08/02/2008 11:34 PM, sadeq zabihi wrote:

Hello Dear
 
I am tring to install a wiki software on Debian (server) on my network.

But I dont know which wiki software is better for my project (it is not a big 
project) and how i can install it on debian server.
It it is possible for you please help me about both (wiki software and Debian)
 
best Regards.

Sadeq Zabihi
Herat - Afghanistan

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 


There are many wiki packages for Debian. Run this command:

aptitude search wiki

I recommend mediawiki since it's the most popular.



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Re: Wiki page automation (POST method with urlencode)

[Dan Ritter]

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:49:58PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
 Hi folks,
 
 I am looking for tool to create application/x-www-form-urlencoded data.
 
 Here is the background.
 
 As I use wiki.debian.org sometime but I was tired of slow response.  So
 I now use local wiki to edit text fist and cut-and-pase to
 wiki.debian.org.  
 
 Then I was wondering how to do this more efficiently
 
 I know I can get raw text page quickly from wiki using w3m command.  I
 can use vim to edit it.  

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125
(It's all text) an extension for Firefox/Iceweasel that exports
and imports textareas to, say, a terminal running vim.

-dsr-


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Tyranny is something that creeps up on you.

http://tao.merseine.nu:81/~dsr/eula.html is hereby incorporated by reference.


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 02:48:50AM -0800, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
 Hey guys,
 
 I take notes in class and use the wiki markup system. Thus, a section
 of the notes would look like the following:
 
 
 
 == Timers ===
 
  * Timer0 - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit prescaler * Timer1 - 16-bit
  timer/counter with prescaler can be incremented during SLEEP via
  external crystal/clock.  * Timer2 - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit
  period register, prescaler, and postscaler.
 
 
 
 So I would like to be able to run this through a script/application
 that will automatically parse this and bold the headings and put
 bullets in the items.
 
 Does such a tool exist?

Why do you use wiki markup if you're not writing to a wiki?

That's what LaTex is for.

You have a plain-text file with wiki markup.  You want stuff bolded.
Plain text doesn't have 'bold'.  You'll need to turn it into a format
that can then create a pdf or ps file.  If you know how to write raw ps,
great.  Otherwise, I'd suggest you write a script to turn your wiki
stuff into LaTex then run latex to make the dvi, then turn that into
whatever you want.

Doug.


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 11/24/07 04:48, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
 Hey guys,
 
 I take notes in class and use the wiki markup system. Thus, a section of the 
 notes would look like the following:
 
 
 
 == Timers ===
 
  * Timer0
   - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit prescaler
  * Timer1
   - 16-bit timer/counter with prescaler can be incremented during SLEEP via 
 external crystal/clock.
  * Timer2
   - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit period register, prescaler, and postscaler.
 
 
 
 So I would like to be able to run this through a script/application that will 
 automatically parse this and bold the headings and put bullets in the items.
 
 Does such a tool exist?

If you have a wiki-viewer, then cups-pdf might be what you want.

- --
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Jefferson LA  USA

%SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels
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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Jochen Schulz]

Amit Uttamchandani:
 
 == Timers ===
 
  * Timer0
   - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit prescaler
  * Timer1
   - 16-bit timer/counter with prescaler can be incremented during SLEEP via 
 external crystal/clock.
  * Timer2
   - 8-bit timer/counter with 8-bit period register, prescaler, and postscaler.
 
 
 
 So I would like to be able to run this through a script/application
 that will automatically parse this and bold the headings and put
 bullets in the items.
 
 Does such a tool exist?

I don't know of any for your specific markup, but you might want to take
a look at reStructured Text, which is very similar and can be converted
to a lot of different formats.

J.
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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Amit Uttamchandani]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:49:10 +0100
Jochen Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I don't know of any for your specific markup, but you might want to take
 a look at reStructured Text, which is very similar and can be converted
 to a lot of different formats.
 

I took a look at it and it might be the thing that I am looking for. Thanks for 
the tip. So I guess this is all a part of the docutils package right?

Thanks,
Amit


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Amit Uttamchandani]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:29:37 -0500
Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Why do you use wiki markup if you're not writing to a wiki?
 
 That's what LaTex is for.
 
 You have a plain-text file with wiki markup.  You want stuff bolded.
 Plain text doesn't have 'bold'.  You'll need to turn it into a format
 that can then create a pdf or ps file.  If you know how to write raw ps,
 great.  Otherwise, I'd suggest you write a script to turn your wiki
 stuff into LaTex then run latex to make the dvi, then turn that into
 whatever you want.
 
 Doug.
 

Yes I actually did consider using latex. Maybe I should have since I use it for 
almost every other report or assignment I write. One of the reasons I wanted to 
do this in wiki markup was that it was quite simple to read in source format 
and I could post it to a wiki site later on.

Thanks for the input,
Amit


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Amit Uttamchandani]

 If you have a wiki-viewer, then cups-pdf might be what you want.


Yes that could be possible. The above markup is used in moinmoin but I am 
thinking its standard in all wikis. Do you know of any X based wiki viewer app.

Thanks,
Amit 


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Chris G]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 11:24:26AM -0800, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
 On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:49:10 +0100
 Jochen Schulz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  I don't know of any for your specific markup, but you might want to take
  a look at reStructured Text, which is very similar and can be converted
  to a lot of different formats.
  
 
 I took a look at it and it might be the thing that I am looking for. Thanks 
 for the tip. So I guess this is all a part of the docutils package right?
 
Yes, install docutils and you get the various RST converters.

-- 
Chris Green


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Re: wiki to pdf converter

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2007 at 11:27:39AM -0800, Amit Uttamchandani wrote:
 On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 11:29:37 -0500 Douglas A. Tutty
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Why do you use wiki markup if you're not writing to a wiki?
  
  That's what LaTex is for.
  
  You have a plain-text file with wiki markup.  You want stuff bolded.
  Plain text doesn't have 'bold'.  You'll need to turn it into a
  format that can then create a pdf or ps file.  If you know how to
  write raw ps, great.  Otherwise, I'd suggest you write a script to
  turn your wiki stuff into LaTex then run latex to make the dvi, then
  turn that into whatever you want.
 
 Yes I actually did consider using latex. Maybe I should have since I
 use it for almost every other report or assignment I write. One of the
 reasons I wanted to do this in wiki markup was that it was quite
 simple to read in source format and I could post it to a wiki site
 later on.

Normal LaTex is relatively easy to read.  There's a package/script
somewhere that will remove all markup from it to give you plain text.

You may want to see if there's a script that will turn latex or dvi into
wiki.

If neither script exists, it shouldn't be hard to write in your
script-lanuage-of-choice (or even something like Ada if you want it
compiled).  As always, start with the documentation and write the script
to match.

Doug.


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Re: Wiki page automation (POST method with urlencode)

[David Clymer]

On Mon, 2007-10-15 at 11:14 -0800, Ken Irving wrote:
 On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:49:58PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
  I am looking for tool to create application/x-www-form-urlencoded data.
  
  Here is the background.
  
  As I use wiki.debian.org sometime but I was tired of slow response.  So
  I now use local wiki to edit text fist and cut-and-pase to
  wiki.debian.org.  
  
  Then I was wondering how to do this more efficiently
 
 This is not what you're asking for/about, but mediawikiafs aims to
 map from/to a 'mediawiki' wiki as an ordinary filesystem, so you
 can edit files locally and so on.  It handles the wiki interface,
 and maybe it'd be worth seeing how they do it.  It only works for 
 the mediawiki flavor, so may or may not be applicable directly.
 
 I'll be interested in seeing other responses to your query, as I 
 have a hard time editing using browsers.  I wonder if there's a
 browser which uses a vi-like interface?...
 

There's always vimperator (http://vimperator.mozdev.org/).

I vacillate between thinking that this is incredibly cool, and thinking
that it is completely insane.

-davidc

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Re: Wiki page automation (POST method with urlencode)

[Ken Irving]

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 08:49:58PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
 I am looking for tool to create application/x-www-form-urlencoded data.
 
 Here is the background.
 
 As I use wiki.debian.org sometime but I was tired of slow response.  So
 I now use local wiki to edit text fist and cut-and-pase to
 wiki.debian.org.  
 
 Then I was wondering how to do this more efficiently

This is not what you're asking for/about, but mediawikiafs aims to
map from/to a 'mediawiki' wiki as an ordinary filesystem, so you
can edit files locally and so on.  It handles the wiki interface,
and maybe it'd be worth seeing how they do it.  It only works for 
the mediawiki flavor, so may or may not be applicable directly.

I'll be interested in seeing other responses to your query, as I 
have a hard time editing using browsers.  I wonder if there's a
browser which uses a vi-like interface?...

Ken
 
 I know I can get raw text page quickly from wiki using w3m command.  I
 can use vim to edit it.  
 
 I should be able to post data with w3m using POST method.  But the data
 needs to be encoded etc.  which makes it a bit cumbersome.  Is there any
 tool set or script example to upload page to wiki.

-- 
Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Wiki for Java Developers Using Debian

[Alec Berryman]

Redefined Horizons on 2006-07-11 08:22:28 -0700:

 I have created a little wiki to assist newbies to Debian with Java
 development on the operating system.

It would be great if that were integrated into the Debian wiki,
wiki.debian.org.


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Re: Wiki for Java Developers Using Debian

[Linas Žvirblis]

Redefined Horizons wrote:

 Other developers that are working with Debian are welcome to
 contribute to the wiki page. Hopefully it will mature into a helpful
 knowledge base for Java development on Debian.

Why not integrate it into official Debian wiki?


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Re: Wiki recommendation

[Nikolai Hlubek]

Storm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I need to do some collaboration with a friend and intend to set up an OpenVPN 
 connection for him to access a wiki located on one of my servers. Which wiki 
 is generally best? I'm looking for something that is simple to maintain and 
 simple for collaboration. 
 
 Suggestions?

I can recommend Zwiki because it features ReStructured Text which is
very easy to learn and use. See the example below:


This is the Header
==

1. One
--

Text


2. Two
--

Foo.


(The database management there is done through zope. )

Cheers,
Nikolai

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Re: Wiki recommendation

[Paul Johnson]

On Saturday 06 May 2006 14:54, Storm wrote:
 Hi,

 I need to do some collaboration with a friend and intend to set up an
 OpenVPN connection for him to access a wiki located on one of my servers.
 Which wiki is generally best? I'm looking for something that is simple to
 maintain and simple for collaboration.

I'm partial to mediawiki myself.  http://en.wikipedia.org/ is probably the 
best known wiki running that software.

-- 
Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP  Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber


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Re: Wiki recommendation

[Martin A. Brooks]

Paul Johnson wrote:
I'm partial to mediawiki myself.  http://en.wikipedia.org/ is probably the 
best known wiki running that software.
  


I've heard good things about MW also.  The only reason I didn't use it 
last time the need came up was because a database backend was severe 
overkill,  I used moinmoin instead.


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Re: Wiki recommendation

[Jeff]

Storm wrote:

Hi,

I need to do some collaboration with a friend and intend to set up an OpenVPN 
connection for him to access a wiki located on one of my servers. Which wiki 
is generally best? I'm looking for something that is simple to maintain and 
simple for collaboration. 


Suggestions?
  
The best, of course, depends on your specific needs.  But if you want 
the ease of a flat-file wiki (i.e. no database required), that also has 
tons of flexibility, Pmwiki can't be beat.


Jeff


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Re: Wiki recommendation

[Storm]

On Saturday 06 May 2006 20:43, Jeff wrote:

 The best, of course, depends on your specific needs.  But if you want
 the ease of a flat-file wiki (i.e. no database required), that also has
 tons of flexibility, Pmwiki can't be beat.

Specifically I am working on an idea for a podcast, and want to use a wiki 
plan to use it to lay out the shows, giving my cohost access to collaborate 
before we record. I don't necessarily need a beefy database-based one, but 
OTOH, I also think that something like Didiwiki is a little too light, as it 
seems to be more of a personal note-taking app (I have it on my Zaurus). I'll 
give Pmwiki a spin. 

Thanks,
-- 
--Brad

Bradley M. Alexander   |
IA Analyst, SysAdmin, Security Engineer|   storm [at] tux.org
Debian/GNU Linux Developer |   storm [at] debian.org

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Re: Wiki !

[Gerson Henrique Diesel]

Este FCKEditor é o editor visual ? Sergio, nao custa nada pesquisar nao e ?? :p
http://www.fckeditor.net/This HTML text editor brings to the web many of the powerful functionalitiesof desktop editors like MS Word. It's lightweight and doesn't require any kind
of installation on the client computer.Because it is Open Source, you may use it however you want. Abraços, hAtOrYEu uso Wiki da mediawiki, e gosto muito de usá-lo. Uso este site como manual: 
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User's_GuidePessoalmente não acho interessante usar um editor WYSIWYG, como o FCKedit para colocar textos no wiki. Até porque aprendendo bem a linguagem wiki, posso usá-la em outros sites de terceiro para colaborar também.
-- Gerson Henrique DieselICQ - 6807620MSN - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[OT] Re: Wiki !

[Pedro Henrique de Lira]

Olá sergio, blz.

então não sei se foi de meu tópico, mas postei aqui uma pergunta sobre e 
depois fui dar uma boa estudada no site do wikimedia.org, eu até cheguei 
a instalar o pluguin do FCKeditor, mas tem vantagens e desvantagens de 
usar ele e optei em não usar, mas qualquer coisa estamos ai.


Só não posso passar o endereço da instalação que fiz por que é da 
empresa e uso interno, e por isso tive um trabalhinho com segurança e 
configurar as coisas.


[]s

Sergio Berlotto escreveu:
Pessoal, quem aqui que trabalha ou tem um wiki, sabe informar quais os 
principais comandos para formatação de uma página, quais as premissas 
básicas para se poder trabalhar com um wiki ?


Eu montei tb um wiki, com base em um email que vi de um colega aqui e 
achei interessantíssimo !

Parabéns pela idéia e desculpe pela cópia ! :-)

Enfim...

qq coisa: http://www.berlotto.com.br/wiki está a disposição ...

--
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Sérgio Hilton Berlotto Junior

e-mail: sergio.berlotto em gmail.com http://gmail.com
msn:berlottocdd em hotmail.com http://hotmail.com
http://www.berlotto.com.br
 




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Re: [OT] Re: Wiki !

[Sergio Berlotto]

Este FCKEditor é o editor visual ?On 4/10/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Olá sergio, blz.então não sei se foi de meu tópico, mas postei aqui uma pergunta sobre e
depois fui dar uma boa estudada no site do wikimedia.org, eu até chegueia instalar o pluguin do FCKeditor, mas tem vantagens e desvantagens deusar ele e optei em não usar, mas qualquer coisa estamos ai.
Só não posso passar o endereço da instalação que fiz por que é daempresa e uso interno, e por isso tive um trabalhinho com segurança econfigurar as coisas.[]sSergio Berlotto escreveu: Pessoal, quem aqui que trabalha ou tem um wiki, sabe informar quais os
 principais comandos para formatação de uma página, quais as premissas básicas para se poder trabalhar com um wiki ? Eu montei tb um wiki, com base em um email que vi de um colega aqui e
 achei interessantíssimo ! Parabéns pela idéia e desculpe pela cópia ! :-) Enfim... qq coisa: http://www.berlotto.com.br/wiki está a disposição ...
 -- Att, Sérgio Hilton Berlotto Junior  e-mail: sergio.berlotto em gmail.com http://gmail.com
 msn:berlottocdd em hotmail.com http://hotmail.com http://www.berlotto.com.br
 --To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact 
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 em gmail.commsn:berlottocdd em hotmail.comhttp://www.berlotto.com.br

Re: Wiki !

[Xfree99]

Sergio Berlotto sergio.berlotto at gmail.com writes:

Este FCKEditor é o editor visual ?

 Sergio, nao custa nada pesquisar nao e ?? :p

http://www.fckeditor.net/

  This HTML text editor brings to the web many of the powerful functionalities
of desktop editors like MS Word. It's lightweight and doesn't require any kind
of installation on the client computer.
Because it is Open Source, you may use it however you want.

 Abraços, hAtOrY






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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

Perdonad la repetición del mensaje, pero a las 22:45 h no había
llegado el mensaje que envié a las 16:57 y pensé que se había perdido.

Un saludo

-- 
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Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Gonzalo Rivero]

El 3/02/06, Gonzalo Rivero[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
 reenvio a la lista porque me olvido que gmail no lo hace...
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Gonzalo Rivero [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 03-feb-2006 11:52
 Subject: Re: Wiki de Debian en español
 To: Manuel Parrilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 2006/1/28, Manuel Parrilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Hola
 
  Para el que no lo conozca, existe el wiki de Debian en español.
  Su dirección es:
 
  http://wiki.debian.org/FrontPageSpanish
 
  Os animo a que ayudéis a a dotarlo de contenido, ya que de momento está
  bastante vacío.
 
  Un saludo.
 
 estoy apunto de hacer mi pequeño aporte. Es un documento que antes
 venía con la ayuda de apt, pero se perdió y despues de mucho google lo
 encontré en ingles, y lo traduje (así que seguramente alguien tendrá
 que entrar a corregirlo despues que lo suba), se llama 'usando apt
 offline'

 pd: tal ves en un rato entre, porque mientras escribo esto se puso
 lentísima la red

listo, http://wiki.debian.org/UsandoAptOffline
Ahora solo falta revisar que esté bien escrito y cosas letras de ancho
fijo en algunas partes, y tambien algunos enter que no los tomó
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Ya volvieron las pequeñas historias de mi vida:
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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

El Viernes, 3 de Febrero de 2006 16:23, Gonzalo Rivero escribió:
 El 3/02/06, Gonzalo Rivero[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

  estoy apunto de hacer mi pequeño aporte. Es un documento que antes
  venía con la ayuda de apt, pero se perdió y despues de mucho google lo
  encontré en ingles, y lo traduje (así que seguramente alguien tendrá
  que entrar a corregirlo despues que lo suba), se llama 'usando apt
  offline'
 
  pd: tal ves en un rato entre, porque mientras escribo esto se puso
  lentísima la red

 listo, http://wiki.debian.org/UsandoAptOffline
 Ahora solo falta revisar que esté bien escrito y cosas letras de ancho
 fijo en algunas partes, y tambien algunos enter que no los tomó
 --
Gracias por tu aportación. He modificado un poco la página de trucos y 
consejos  http://wiki.debian.org/TrucosyConsejos para darle un aspecto 
homogéneo. 

He visto algunas erratas y ortografía que habrá que corregir.

Un saludo

-- 
Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Re: wiki

[Bartsch, Steffen]

Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Steffen Bartsch 

Ihr BCC Domain Support Team
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Steinfeldstrasse 3   Tel. 0391-7374-400
39179 Barleben   Fax. 0391-7374-455

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Communication for Your Business 

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

El Jueves, 2 de Febrero de 2006 00:43, EleckttrusS escribió:
 Como puedo ingresar informacion en el wiki de debian?

En principio, cualquiera puede introducir información en la wiki, lo único que 
tienes que hacer es registrarte, para lo cual debes seleccionar el enlace
correspondiente de los que aparecen en el margen de la derecha de las páginas 
del wiki y seguir los pasos sencillos que se te irán indicando.

Una vez que estés registrado, ya puedes introducir información. He incluido
en la wiki una pequeña guía sobre cómo hacerlo. La página es:

http://wiki.debian.org/EditarPagina

 Quien regula ese contenido?

No sé exactamente a qué te refieres por regular el contenido, pero en el wiki 
existe la figura del WikiMaster, que es un poco el administrador de la wiki. 
El que entienda el inglés y quiera más detalle sobre esta figura puede 
visitar:

http://wiki.debian.org/WikiMaster

Espero haberte aclarado tus dudas.

Un saludo
-- 
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Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

El Jueves, 2 de Febrero de 2006 16:57, escribió:
 El Jueves, 2 de Febrero de 2006 00:43, EleckttrusS escribió:
  Como puedo ingresar informacion en el wiki de debian?

 En principio, cualquiera puede introducir información en la wiki, lo único
 que tienes que hacer es registrarte, para lo cual debes seleccionar el
 enlace correspondiente de los que aparecen en el margen de la derecha de
 las páginas del wiki y seguir los pasos sencillos que se te irán indicando.

 Una vez que estés registrado, ya puedes introducir información. He incluido
 en la wiki una pequeña guía sobre cómo hacerlo. La página es:

 http://wiki.debian.org/EditarPagina

  Quien regula ese contenido?

 No sé exactamente a qué te refieres por regular el contenido, pero en el
 wiki existe la figura del WikiMaster, que es un poco el administrador de la
 wiki. El que entienda el inglés y quiera más detalle sobre esta figura
 puede visitar:

 http://wiki.debian.org/WikiMaster

 Espero haberte aclarado tus dudas.

 Un saludo

-- 
Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
 On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
  Ante todo agradeceros el interés demostrado.
 
   El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 17:12, Carlos Alegria escribió:
   Yo me uno tambien cualquier cosa que necesiten me avisan con un mail
 
  En principio, no se trata de que te avisen para hacer algo, sino que si
  crees disponer de alguna información de interés relacionada con Debian
  (información propia o de un tercero pero con una licencia que lo permita
  y respetando su autoría) la añadas al wiki.

 Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
 tiene??

No entiendo mucho de derecho ni temas legales, quizás alguien nos lo pueda 
aclarar mejor. Yo te puedo dar mi opinión, pero es sólo eso: una opinión.

Yo creo que normalmente lo que se publica en la lista no va protegido por 
ningún tipo de licencia, de hecho no he visto ningún mensaje en el que alguien 
especifique que lo que comenta lo hace bajo algún tipo de derecho de autor. 
Pienso que es semejante a lo que puedas hablar con alguien en una 
conversación.

Sin embargo creo que, por cortesía, se debe mencionar la fuente de la que
se ha obtenido la información, en este caso de la lista de correo de usuarios 
de Debian debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org, y si crees que la información 
se puede atribuir a una persona en concreto, pues mencionar su nombre y 
agradecérselo.

¿Puede alguien aclarar un poco el tema?

Un saludo

-- 
Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Guimi]

- Original Message - 
From: Manuel Parrilla
El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
 On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
 Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
 tiene??


Al menos en España la ley dice que los derechos de autor son intransferibles e
irrenunciables y se generan en el mismo momento de crear la obra. Además estos 
derechos
son perennes.
Aparte están los derechos de copia, reproducción y explotación que sí son 
transferibles y
renunciables. Estos derechos caducan.

Y creo que esta base es igual en todo el mundo. Para los detalles, como el 
tiempo de
caducidad del derecho de copia, se podría litigar que lo he escrito desde 
España, pero que
el servidor está en ?dónde? y cualquier otra cosa que pueda inventarse un 
abogado (que es
mucho).

Se ve mejor con un ejemplo:
Sobre la obra El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha los derechos de 
autor siguen
siendo de Miguel de Cervantes.
Esto significa básicamente que no puedo decir que El Quijote lo escribí yo.
Sin embargo los derechos de copia ya caducaron. Esto quiere decir que 
cualquiera puede
reproducir, publicar y copiar el quijote libremente... siempre que no infrinja 
los
derechos de autor. Es decir, siempre que no diga que el autor no es Cervantes.

Así pues, este mismo comentario, en el momento mismo de escribirlo, me genera 
derechos
intransferibles e irrenunciables de autor (nadie, ni yo, puede decir que lo 
escribió
otro).
Sin embargo si alguien quisiera publicar mi comentario en un libro y cobrar por 
ello... ya
no lo tengo claro.
En todo caso puedo proteger mis derechos de copia añadiendo lo siguiente:

Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Guimi
Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar los documentos bajo los 
términos de la GNU
Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License visite
http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt.

:-P

Saludos
Guimi
http://www.guimi.net


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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Guimi]

Saludos
Guimi
http://www.guimi.net
- Original Message - 
From: Guimi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Wiki de Debian en español


 - Original Message - 
 From: Manuel Parrilla
 El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
  On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
  Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
  tiene??
 

 Al menos en España la ley dice que los derechos de autor son intransferibles e
 irrenunciables y se generan en el mismo momento de crear la obra. Además 
 estos derechos
 son perennes.
 Aparte están los derechos de copia, reproducción y explotación que sí son 
 transferibles
y
 renunciables. Estos derechos caducan.

 Y creo que esta base es igual en todo el mundo. Para los detalles, como el 
 tiempo de
 caducidad del derecho de copia, se podría litigar que lo he escrito desde 
 España, pero
que
 el servidor está en ?dónde? y cualquier otra cosa que pueda inventarse un 
 abogado (que
es
 mucho).

 Se ve mejor con un ejemplo:
 Sobre la obra El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha los derechos de 
 autor
siguen
 siendo de Miguel de Cervantes.
 Esto significa básicamente que no puedo decir que El Quijote lo escribí yo.
 Sin embargo los derechos de copia ya caducaron. Esto quiere decir que 
 cualquiera puede
 reproducir, publicar y copiar el quijote libremente... siempre que no 
 infrinja los
 derechos de autor. Es decir, siempre que no diga que el autor no es Cervantes.

 Así pues, este mismo comentario, en el momento mismo de escribirlo, me genera 
 derechos
 intransferibles e irrenunciables de autor (nadie, ni yo, puede decir que lo 
 escribió
 otro).
 Sin embargo si alguien quisiera publicar mi comentario en un libro y cobrar 
 por ello...
ya
 no lo tengo claro.
 En todo caso puedo proteger mis derechos de copia añadiendo lo siguiente:

 Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Guimi
 Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar los documentos bajo los 
 términos de la
GNU
 Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
 Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License visite
 http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt.

 :-P

Por cierto en la web especifican las condiciones que rigen los comentarios de 
la lista
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer

Un extracto:
Any emails sent by any one person directly to the list, or replies by others to 
those
emails sent to the list, are considered published, in accordance with the 
United States
law.

Obviously the author still owns the copyright to the content of these emails 
that they
have written. However, that does not mean that the Debian Project is under 
obligation to
remove them from a list archive once published.


Para los que no saben inglés, a vuelapluma sería:
Todos los correos enviados por una persona directamente a la lista, o 
respuestas de otros
a esos correos enviados a la lista, se condieran publicados, de acuerdo a la 
ley de USA.
Obviamente el autor todavía mantiene el copyright (aquí más bien en el sentido 
de derechos
de autor) del contenido de esos correos que han escrito. Sin embargo eso no 
significa que
el proyecto Debian tenga obligación de borrarlos del archivo de la lista una vez
publicados.

 Saludos
 Guimi
 http://www.guimi.net


 -- 
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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

El Miércoles, 1 de Febrero de 2006 18:11, Guimi escribió:
  - Original Message -
  From: Manuel Parrilla
 
  El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
   On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
   Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
   tiene??
 
  Al menos en España la ley dice que los derechos de autor son
  intransferibles e irrenunciables y se generan en el mismo momento de
  crear la obra. Además estos derechos son perennes.
  Aparte están los derechos de copia, reproducción y explotación que sí son
  transferibles

 y

  renunciables. Estos derechos caducan.
 
  Y creo que esta base es igual en todo el mundo. Para los detalles, como
  el tiempo de caducidad del derecho de copia, se podría litigar que lo he
  escrito desde España, pero

 que

  el servidor está en ?dónde? y cualquier otra cosa que pueda inventarse un
  abogado (que

 es

  mucho).
 
  Se ve mejor con un ejemplo:
  Sobre la obra El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha los
  derechos de autor

 siguen

  siendo de Miguel de Cervantes.
  Esto significa básicamente que no puedo decir que El Quijote lo escribí
  yo. Sin embargo los derechos de copia ya caducaron. Esto quiere decir que
  cualquiera puede reproducir, publicar y copiar el quijote libremente...
  siempre que no infrinja los derechos de autor. Es decir, siempre que no
  diga que el autor no es Cervantes.
 
  Así pues, este mismo comentario, en el momento mismo de escribirlo, me
  genera derechos intransferibles e irrenunciables de autor (nadie, ni yo,
  puede decir que lo escribió otro).
  Sin embargo si alguien quisiera publicar mi comentario en un libro y
  cobrar por ello...

 ya

  no lo tengo claro.
  En todo caso puedo proteger mis derechos de copia añadiendo lo siguiente:
 
  Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Guimi
  Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar los documentos bajo los
  términos de la

 GNU

  Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
  Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License
  visite http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt.
 
  :-P

 Por cierto en la web especifican las condiciones que rigen los comentarios
 de la lista http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer

 Un extracto:
 Any emails sent by any one person directly to the list, or replies by
 others to those emails sent to the list, are considered published, in
 accordance with the United States law.

 Obviously the author still owns the copyright to the content of these
 emails that they have written. However, that does not mean that the Debian
 Project is under obligation to remove them from a list archive once
 published.


 Para los que no saben inglés, a vuelapluma sería:
 Todos los correos enviados por una persona directamente a la lista, o
 respuestas de otros a esos correos enviados a la lista, se condieran
 publicados, de acuerdo a la ley de USA. Obviamente el autor todavía
 mantiene el copyright (aquí más bien en el sentido de derechos de autor)
 del contenido de esos correos que han escrito. Sin embargo eso no significa
 que el proyecto Debian tenga obligación de borrarlos del archivo de la
 lista una vez publicados.

Vaya, pues estoy más liado que al principio. Entonces:

¿Se podría incluir en el wiki información recopilada de la lista?

¿Habría que pedir permiso explícito al autor del comentario?

Si se desea facilitar la difusión libre del conocimiento ¿Sería conveniente 
empezar a añadir a la firma algo como lo que ha comentado Guimi?:

Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar este comentario bajo los
términos de la GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License
visite http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt

-- 
Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[consultores1]

El Miércoles 01 Febrero 2006 7:49 AM, Manuel Parrilla escribió:
 El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
  On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
   Ante todo agradeceros el interés demostrado.
  
El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 17:12, Carlos Alegria escribió:
Yo me uno tambien cualquier cosa que necesiten me avisan con un mail
  
   En principio, no se trata de que te avisen para hacer algo, sino que si
   crees disponer de alguna información de interés relacionada con Debian
   (información propia o de un tercero pero con una licencia que lo
   permita y respetando su autoría) la añadas al wiki.
 
  Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
  tiene??

 No entiendo mucho de derecho ni temas legales, quizás alguien nos lo pueda
 aclarar mejor. Yo te puedo dar mi opinión, pero es sólo eso: una opinión.

 Yo creo que normalmente lo que se publica en la lista no va protegido por
 ningún tipo de licencia, de hecho no he visto ningún mensaje en el que
 alguien especifique que lo que comenta lo hace bajo algún tipo de derecho
 de autor. Pienso que es semejante a lo que puedas hablar con alguien en una
 conversación.

 Sin embargo creo que, por cortesía, se debe mencionar la fuente de la que
 se ha obtenido la información, en este caso de la lista de correo de
 usuarios de Debian debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org, y si crees que la
 información se puede atribuir a una persona en concreto, pues mencionar su
 nombre y agradecérselo.

 ¿Puede alguien aclarar un poco el tema?

Hola Manuel

Creo que esto amerita una explicacion de diferentes angulos, mi aportacion es 
desde el punto de vista dominio mundial.

En concreto, todo lo que un hombre puede hacer solo son dos cosas: 1. 
descubrir y la otra 2. construir usando como base lo descubierto + lo no 
descubierto. (no puede crear)

Sobre esta base, nada tiene propietario ni dueno, pero aparecen los usureros y 
se inventan la moneda, los precios, las patentes, el derecho romano, etc.  y 
todo en base a mentiras para gobernar el mundo y manipular a los pueblos; ej. 
E. U. alli todo mundo acepta cosas como que le pongan un chip bajo la piel 
que lo tenga controlado, usando la mentira de que eso le dara comodidad y 
aceptan cualquier cosa que les diga el gobierno. Esto desde que asesinaron el 
movimiento de los anos 60.

Como podras ver la antitesis utilizada para contrarestar y confundir es decir 
que sin normas la humanidad no puede existir y le dicen Anarquia y no se que 
mas. Pero en realidad solo son formas de manipulacion.

Sabias que las multinacionales hacen lo que se les antoja, practicamente en 
todo el mundo. Ej. Si no pueden ganar terreno en Espana, se van a un pais 
pequeno para introducir su patente y luego extender sus tientaculos hasta 
ser duenos de todo.

En sintesis, de acuerdo a este punto de vista aceptar normas y regirse por 
ellas en vez de las normas del sentido comun es igual que contribuir con los 
usureros que quieren dominar el mundo.

Bueno eso es lo que indican los que conocen ese punto de vista.


 Un saludo

-- 
LQH Consultores S.A. de C.V.
Agricultura, Industria, Servicios.

Re: Wiki de Debian en espa ñol

[Luis Rodrigo Gallardo Cruz]

 El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
  On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
  Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
  tiene??

 Yo creo que normalmente lo que se publica en la lista no va protegido por
 ningún tipo de licencia, de hecho no he visto ningún mensaje en el que
 alguien especifique que lo que comenta lo hace bajo algún tipo de derecho
 de autor. Pienso que es semejante a lo que puedas hablar con alguien en una
 conversación.

 Sin embargo creo que, por cortesía, se debe mencionar la fuente de la que
 se ha obtenido la información, en este caso de la lista de correo de
 usuarios de Debian debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org, y si crees que la
 información se puede atribuir a una persona en concreto, pues mencionar su
 nombre y agradecérselo.

 ¿Puede alguien aclarar un poco el tema?

Esto de los derechos de autor es un poco complicado, por que los
detalles dependen del pais. Tomen lo que sigue con un grano de sal,
porque además no soy abogado.

En los paises signatarios de la convención de Berna
(Para fines prácticos todos:
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ShowResults.jsp?lang=entreaty_id=15)
no es necesario que los derechos de autor se declaren o registren ante
autoridad alguna para que tengan validez. Dicha validez empieza a partir
de que las ideas se fijan en algún medio. Por eso el estatus legal es
diferente al de una conversación.

Es posible argumentar que, dado que el autor lo está enviando a la lista
por su propia voluntad y que al suscribirse vió la página que dice que
esta es una lista pública, hay una licencia implícita para
redistribuirlo a los suscriptores de la lista y para incluirlo en los
archivos. Fuera de eso, cualquier otro uso se debe suponer prohibido.

Así que, para estar fuera de problemas y no sólo por cortesía, si se
añade material obtenido de
la lista a cualquier otro sitio (la wiki, por ejemplo), lo adecuado es
buscar el permiso explícito del autor del mensaje.


-- 
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Fingerprint: 7C81 E60C 442E 8FBC D975  2F49 0199 8318 ADC9 BC28
http://www.nul-unu.com  http://www.nul-unu.com/blogs/elucubrando


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[EleckttrusS]

Como puedo ingresar informacion en el wiki de debian? Quien regula ese contenido?

Re: Wiki de Debian en espa ñol

[Romo]

Hola Manuel...

decías, el 01-feb-2006 [07:15 +0100]:

 El Miércoles, 1 de Febrero de 2006 18:11, Guimi escribió:
   - Original Message -
   From: Manuel Parrilla
  
   El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 22:44, elboube escribió:
On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia
tiene??
  
   Al menos en España la ley dice que los derechos de autor son
   intransferibles e irrenunciables y se generan en el mismo momento de
   crear la obra. Además estos derechos son perennes.
   Aparte están los derechos de copia, reproducción y explotación que sí son
   transferibles
 
  y
 
   renunciables. Estos derechos caducan.
  
   Y creo que esta base es igual en todo el mundo. Para los detalles, como
   el tiempo de caducidad del derecho de copia, se podría litigar que lo he
   escrito desde España, pero
 
  que
 
   el servidor está en ?dónde? y cualquier otra cosa que pueda inventarse un
   abogado (que
 
  es
 
   mucho).
  
   Se ve mejor con un ejemplo:
   Sobre la obra El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha los
   derechos de autor
 
  siguen
 
   siendo de Miguel de Cervantes.
   Esto significa básicamente que no puedo decir que El Quijote lo escribí
   yo. Sin embargo los derechos de copia ya caducaron. Esto quiere decir que
   cualquiera puede reproducir, publicar y copiar el quijote libremente...
   siempre que no infrinja los derechos de autor. Es decir, siempre que no
   diga que el autor no es Cervantes.
  
   Así pues, este mismo comentario, en el momento mismo de escribirlo, me
   genera derechos intransferibles e irrenunciables de autor (nadie, ni yo,
   puede decir que lo escribió otro).
   Sin embargo si alguien quisiera publicar mi comentario en un libro y
   cobrar por ello...
 
  ya
 
   no lo tengo claro.
   En todo caso puedo proteger mis derechos de copia añadiendo lo siguiente:
  
   Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Guimi
   Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar los documentos bajo los
   términos de la
 
  GNU
 
   Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
   Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License
   visite http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt.
  
   :-P
 
  Por cierto en la web especifican las condiciones que rigen los comentarios
  de la lista http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer
 
  Un extracto:
  Any emails sent by any one person directly to the list, or replies by
  others to those emails sent to the list, are considered published, in
  accordance with the United States law.
 
  Obviously the author still owns the copyright to the content of these
  emails that they have written. However, that does not mean that the Debian
  Project is under obligation to remove them from a list archive once
  published.
 
 
  Para los que no saben inglés, a vuelapluma sería:
  Todos los correos enviados por una persona directamente a la lista, o
  respuestas de otros a esos correos enviados a la lista, se condieran
  publicados, de acuerdo a la ley de USA. Obviamente el autor todavía
  mantiene el copyright (aquí más bien en el sentido de derechos de autor)
  del contenido de esos correos que han escrito. Sin embargo eso no significa
  que el proyecto Debian tenga obligación de borrarlos del archivo de la
  lista una vez publicados.
 
 Vaya, pues estoy más liado que al principio. Entonces:
 
 ¿Se podría incluir en el wiki información recopilada de la lista?
 
 ¿Habría que pedir permiso explícito al autor del comentario?
 
 Si se desea facilitar la difusión libre del conocimiento ¿Sería conveniente 
 empezar a añadir a la firma algo como lo que ha comentado Guimi?:
 
 Copyright de este comentario (c) 2006 Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
 Está permitido copiar, distribuir y/o modificar este comentario bajo los
 términos de la GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
 Para obtener una copia de la licencia GNU Free Documentation License
 visite http://www.fsf.org/licenses/fdl.txt

Independientemente de los problemas de licencia, derechos de autor y
demas. La verdad es que opino que un resumen de opiniones vertidas en
esta lista u otra (o otra fuente de datos) no supone ninguna violacion
de derechos asi como poner la referencia de en que se basa

Por lo que la inserccion de referencias mediante links de los historicos
de la lista no supone ninguna violacion (ya estan alli)

Otro aspecto es el derecho de que el interlocutor que vertio su opinion
en la lista referente a un tema de defenderse o opinar sobre lo lo bueno
o mal interpretado de sus palabras. Es un aspecto que puede dar
problemas

No se si me he explicado claramente, pero resumiendo, el poner una
referencia a algo que ya esta disponible y acesible a todo el mundo no
menos precia o pisotea los derechos del autor. Si fuera asi empecemos
por apagar todas las maquinas y empecemos ha vivir todos en nuestra
propia burbuja (sin la interconectividad de internet, moviles..) y
volvamos un siglo atras

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Carlos Alegria]

Yo me uno tambien cualquier cosa que necesiten me avisan con un mail



saludos
El día 30/01/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

Genial!!!Manuel, cuenta conmigo;)Atte.Norma:) Hola Para el que no lo conozca, existe el wiki de Debian en español.
 Su dirección es: http://wiki.debian.org/FrontPageSpanish Os animo a que ayudéis a a dotarlo de contenido, ya que de momento está
 bastante vacío. Un saludo. -- Manuel Parrilla Sánchez Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/) Debian GNU/Linux
--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]-- Carlos Patricio Alegría Muñoz.Alumno de Ingenieria (E) en Computacion e Informatica
Debian GNU/LINUX Userfono (08)4024690http://vassili.zapto.org 

Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[Manuel Parrilla]

Ante todo agradeceros el interés demostrado.

 El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 17:12, Carlos Alegria escribió:
 Yo me uno tambien cualquier cosa que necesiten me avisan con un mail

En principio, no se trata de que te avisen para hacer algo, sino que si crees 
disponer de alguna información de interés relacionada con Debian (información
propia o de un tercero pero con una licencia que lo permita y respetando su 
autoría) la añadas al wiki.


 saludos

 El día 30/01/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
  Genial!!!  Manuel, cuenta conmigo  ;)
 
Ánimo Norma.
 
   Hola
  
   Para el que no lo conozca, existe el wiki de Debian en español.
   Su dirección es:
  
   http://wiki.debian.org/FrontPageSpanish
  
   Os animo a que ayudéis a a dotarlo de contenido, ya que de momento está
   bastante vacío.
  

Un saludo a todos
-- 
Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
Debian GNU/Linux

Re: Wiki de Debian en espa ñol

[elboube]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:35:43PM +0100, Manuel Parrilla wrote:
 Ante todo agradeceros el interés demostrado.
 
  El Martes, 31 de Enero de 2006 17:12, Carlos Alegria escribió:
  Yo me uno tambien cualquier cosa que necesiten me avisan con un mail
 
 En principio, no se trata de que te avisen para hacer algo, sino que si crees 
 disponer de alguna información de interés relacionada con Debian (información
 propia o de un tercero pero con una licencia que lo permita y respetando su 
 autoría) la añadas al wiki.

Una preguntonta: La informacion que se publica en la lista que licencia tiene??

  saludos
 
  El día 30/01/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
   Genial!!!  Manuel, cuenta conmigo  ;)
  
 Ánimo Norma.
  
Hola
   
Para el que no lo conozca, existe el wiki de Debian en español.
Su dirección es:
   
http://wiki.debian.org/FrontPageSpanish
   
Os animo a que ayudéis a a dotarlo de contenido, ya que de momento está
bastante vacío.
   
 
 Un saludo a todos
 -- 
 Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
 Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
 Debian GNU/Linux
 

-- 

Las autoridades sanitarias advierten que usar software propietario 
es perjudicial para su maquina. Sé libre. Usa GNU/Linux.



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Re: Wiki de Debian en español

[norma]

Genial!!!  Manuel, cuenta conmigo  ;)

Atte.
Norma  :)

 Hola

 Para el que no lo conozca, existe el wiki de Debian en español.
 Su dirección es:

 http://wiki.debian.org/FrontPageSpanish

 Os animo a que ayudéis a a dotarlo de contenido, ya que de momento está
 bastante vacío.

 Un saludo.

 --
 Manuel Parrilla Sánchez
 Usuario de Linux Registrado nº 403863 (http://counter.li.org/)
 Debian GNU/Linux






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Re: Wiki

[Still]

* Konnichiwa Datacom - Tavares-sama:
 
 Esclarecendo ..
 
  $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount']   = false;
 
 Visitantes nao podem criar contas, o admin deve cria-las?

Na verdade, vc desabilita a criação de usuários e senhas.
Eu não precisei criar mais do que uma conta, portanto não tive
problemas.
Na documentação fala algo sobre cadastrar a conta e o admin
validá-la.

 
  $wgGroupPermissions['*']['read']= true;
 
 Visitantes podem ler, usuarios tb..

Como eles dizem lá, so far, so good.

 
  $wgGroupPermissions['*']['edit']= false;
 
 Visitantes nao podem editar, usuarios podem?

Bingo!! Exatamente isso.

[]'s,

Still
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Re: Wiki

[Datacom - Tavares]

On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 06:47 -0200, Still wrote:
 * Konnichiwa Datacom - Tavares-sama:
  
  Esclarecendo ..
  
   $wgGroupPermissions['*']['createaccount']   = false;
  
  Visitantes nao podem criar contas, o admin deve cria-las?
 
   Na verdade, vc desabilita a criação de usuários e senhas.
   Eu não precisei criar mais do que uma conta, portanto não tive
 problemas.
   Na documentação fala algo sobre cadastrar a conta e o admin
 validá-la.
 
  
   $wgGroupPermissions['*']['read']= true;
  
  Visitantes podem ler, usuarios tb..
 
   Como eles dizem lá, so far, so good.
 
  
   $wgGroupPermissions['*']['edit']= false;
  
  Visitantes nao podem editar, usuarios podem?
 
   Bingo!! Exatamente isso.

Agora que percebi que existe um asterico ali...
E o asterisco eh um grupo que significa qualquer pessoa .. :)

Na minha lista de ToDo estah anotado estudar o mediawiki :)

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[]
JA Tavares


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Re: Wiki

[Guilherme Rocha]

Em 05/01/06, Pedro Henrique de Lira[EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu:
 Pessoal, olhando a discursão sobre o Wiki, fiquei interessado, baixei no
 site do wikimedia e já instalei, li alguma coisa das configurações mas
 não achei nada que diz como configurar para que somente usuários logados
 possam editar os artigos, como criar menus no lado esquerdo.


amigo, existem milhões de wikis, qual vc estah usando, qual versão,
seja mais especifico.

 alguem pode mandar uma dica.

 []s


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