Re: [OT]Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 20:08:37 +0100, Simon wrote in message 1297192117.1610.6.camel@Nokia-N900: Not kidding, is labtop a real word? As for being a member of the words listed in an English dictionary I'd state no. It is a misspelled form of laptop, I blindly guess. ..I'd say it depends on its use; a laptop that survives the (ab)use in my thermochemical gasification lab, probably deserves being called a labtop. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110421233111.5af583c1@celsius.local
Re: best labtop for debian
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 01:33:21PM -0500, Petrus Validus wrote: on them. The only trouble I have with mine is getting the SD card slot to work and the fingerprint reader working but since I am not Agent 007 I don't think I really need to worry about the latter. I wouldn't fancy losing a finger just because some thug thinks he can gain access that way. -- Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. -- Napoleon Bonaparte -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223102744.GA19918@fischer
Re: best labtop for debian
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:27:44PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 01:33:21PM -0500, Petrus Validus wrote: on them. The only trouble I have with mine is getting the SD card slot to work and the fingerprint reader working but since I am not Agent 007 I don't think I really need to worry about the latter. I wouldn't fancy losing a finger just because some thug thinks he can gain access that way. Touche. :) -- Petrus Validus petrus.vali...@gmail.com If there isn't a way, I make one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110223154209.GA3849@Neuron.8EEWS
Re: best labtop for debian
On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 00:47:19 -0600 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/16/2011 04:51 PM, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Yes. And use dodgy materials and shoddy engineering. The latter is indicated by common sense, but I'm not convinced of the former. Your basis? Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110221092107.daf9ac6a.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/21/2011 08:21 AM, Celejar wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 00:47:19 -0600 Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/16/2011 04:51 PM, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Yes. And use dodgy materials and shoddy engineering. The latter is indicated by common sense, but I'm not convinced of the former. Your basis? The same as why they use shoddy engineering: shave a few pennies here, a few pennies there, and you've got yourself a really cheap card. Might work great, might not. -- The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery. Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d627810.5060...@cox.net
Re: best labtop for debian
Any takes on this? What about the Satellites? Support for Satellites can be hit or miss, I've had better luck with the Tecra series. I have 3 of them here at the house and Debian works great on them. The only trouble I have with mine is getting the SD card slot to work and the fingerprint reader working but since I am not Agent 007 I don't think I really need to worry about the latter. The SD slot would be *very* nice actually. -- Petrus Validus petrus.vali...@gmail.com If there isn't a way, I make one. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110221183321.GA18615@Neuron.8EEWS
Re: best labtop for debian
On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:34:56 -0600 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/21/2011 08:21 AM, Celejar wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 00:47:19 -0600 Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/16/2011 04:51 PM, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Yes. And use dodgy materials and shoddy engineering. The latter is indicated by common sense, but I'm not convinced of the former. Your basis? The same as why they use shoddy engineering: shave a few pennies here, a few pennies there, and you've got yourself a really cheap card. Might work great, might not. But the question is, are cards with poor linux support generally cheaper? Why should that be? The decision to support linux is basically the decision to publish specs; once that's done, the community will generally write a driver, even if the manufacturer doesn't want to. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110221170549.21857c86.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Monday 21 February 2011 16:47:10 Ron Johnson wrote: On 02/21/2011 04:05 PM, Celejar wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:34:56 -0600 Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/21/2011 08:21 AM, Celejar wrote: Why should that be? The decision to support linux is basically the decision to publish specs; once that's done, the community will generally write a driver, even if the manufacturer doesn't want to. Unless there are FCC regulations, blah blah. Publishing specs really can't put you out of FCC regulations. Some devices have to be made tamper-resistant against casual attackers. Going from spec - to driver - through kernel - controlled by userland application is not considered a casual attack and is significantly more involved then tampering. Unless of course your device is clearly over-engineered for its stated purpose, and it intended, but veiled, purpose was the phreak community to begin with. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/21/2011 04:05 PM, Celejar wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 08:34:56 -0600 Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/21/2011 08:21 AM, Celejar wrote: On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 00:47:19 -0600 Ron Johnsonron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 02/16/2011 04:51 PM, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.comwrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Yes. And use dodgy materials and shoddy engineering. The latter is indicated by common sense, but I'm not convinced of the former. Your basis? The same as why they use shoddy engineering: shave a few pennies here, a few pennies there, and you've got yourself a really cheap card. Might work great, might not. But the question is, are cards with poor linux support generally cheaper? Can't answer that. Why should that be? The decision to support linux is basically the decision to publish specs; once that's done, the community will generally write a driver, even if the manufacturer doesn't want to. Unless there are FCC regulations, blah blah. -- The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery. Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d62eb6e.8030...@cox.net
Re: best labtop for debian
Hi, because it´s a question on the list I can offer a special Price of €599,-- for the following one: 17,3 Zoll Notebook E1707 * Display: 17,3 Zoll (43,9 cm) LED Glare Type, HD+ 1600 x 900 * CPU: Intel Pentium P6100 Dual Core, 2,00 GHz, 3 MB Cache, Chipsatz: Intel HM55 * Hauptspeicher: 2 GB RAM DDR3, max. 4 GB * Festplatte: 250 GB SATA, 5400 rpm * optisches Laufwerk: DVD Double Layer Brenner +/-RW, SATA * Wireless LAN: 300 MBit/s, 802.11n, LAN: 1 GBit/s, DSL Ready * integr. Grafik: Intel GMA HD, max. 1748 MB, DirectX 10, HDMI * HD Sound: 2 Speaker 2W + Subwoofer, Mikrofon- und Kopfhörer- Anschluß * abgesetzter Nummernblock, Touchpad mit Scrollfunktion * 5in1 Card-Reader (SD/MMC/MS/MS-Pro/XD) * 1,3 Mega Pixel WebCam integriert, Modem: 56k V92 * Anschlüße: HDMI, VGA, 4 x USB 2.0, 1 x eSATA, 1 x Express Card 34 * Maße: 414x267x37,2 mm, Gewicht inkl. Akku: 2,9 kg * Akku: 6 Zellen 4400 mA, Garantie: 6 Monate * Zubehör: Slot für Kensigton Sicherheitsschloß, Netzteil 19V 65W this one is tested by my self and run´s very well on Squeeze and with LinuxMint-DebianEdition. This is a new Notebook, which I offer in my sales-room for €649,--. Sorry, I know that this is not a business-place but in order of the question I do so only for this one time. Best regards and a nice day L I N U X W O L F Klaus Wolf Dresdner Straße 3 D - 08132 Muelsen 004937601639796 Am Freitag, den 18.02.2011, 17:23 -0600 schrieb Francis Southern: On 18 February 2011 16:39, shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: Snip as some have mentioned in this thread, even some of the Thinkpads are sold with cheaper keyboards and other hardware. but, if you read some reviews, spend a little (~$1k should do imo), you'll end up with a solid portable. 1,000 USD doesn't count as ``a little'' to all of us! We aren't all well-paid American programmers. ;-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298107058.11794.10.ca...@linux-r2dz.fritz.box
Re: best labtop for debian
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 20:16:27 -0500 Chris Jones cjns1...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 04:10:11PM EST, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:09:23 -0700 [..] Good to know, thanks - I've heard that before. The keyboard is the one thing about which I'm really dissatisfied with my Acer Aspire, although that's not Linux specific. Not sure which particular models, which part of the world they ship.. etc. but Lenovo now often install lower quality keyboards on at least some ThinkPads, the main difference being that where the old keyboard had a solid metal back plate, the newer model has a thinner sheet of metal with rectangular cutouts every couple of inches either to help dissipate the heat or reduce the weight of the machine by a few grams. As a result, the newer keyboards have considerably more flex than the older models. Thanks for the heads up. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110219193515.0d51d2e5.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/08/2011 10:47 PM, Bob wrote: I was liking the look of the G555 for my farther. Anyone tried one? on the plus side nice big screen, on the down its only 1366x768 I also like the full keyboard etc.. The integrated webcam is only VGA, but is there any real advantage to higher resolution webcams? I have a Lenovo G555. I bought it because it was cheap - about $329. For that money you're not getting a Thinkpad. Thinkpad is nowhere in the name, and that's for a reason. I sort of thought that I'd get some of the Thinkpad vibe with the G555, but that didn't really happen. It looks nice, the keyboard is great, the screen is short and wide like most laptops these days. The webcam is pretty awful. The Alps touchpad is REALLY awful. Windows users have it way worse than Linux users because the drivers in Windows 7 don't allow you to turn off tap to click like you can in most Linux distros. As a result, the cursor is erratic. You can totally turn off the touchpad on the G555 in any OS with Fn-F8. Yep, they have a key combination to completely turn off the touchpad but no way in their OS of choice, Windows 7, of turning off tap-to-click. So the experience in Debian Squeeze is way better than in Windows 7, I'll say that. There are 3 USB ports, which work great, But there's no Cardbus slot - I guess they're eliminating those in many laptops. It has nice memory-card slot that works well in Linux. There are sound-muting issues when you plug in headphones that are solved either with slight configuration changes, or in my case with Debian Squeeze by using the 2.6.37 Liquorix kernel. The wireless is pretty good. Both the wireless and wired Ethernet interfaces are Atheros, and it took awhile for most Linux and BSD system to catch up with the wired interface, which you should know is 10/100 mb and not gigabit speed. I really don't believe in spending $700+ for a laptop, but after using this bargain model for about eight months, I'd recommend spending $500-$600 for a theoretically better combination of hardware. There is a newer Lenovo for $499 that includes an Intel i3 CPU, more memory and a bigger hard drive. But I don't know if the other liabilities hardware-wise, especially the dodgy touchpad have been dealth with. The short version: Unless it says Thinkpad in the name, it's not a Thinkpad. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d5eea19.8000...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
So the experience in Debian Squeeze is way better than in Windows 7, I'll say that. linux users always have it better than windows users :) There are 3 USB ports, which work great, But there's no Cardbus slot - I guess they're eliminating those in many laptops. It has nice memory-card slot that works well in Linux. heh, i haven't used any built-in expansion slot in a laptop since i needed a pcmcia ethernet card ~10 years ago. The wireless is pretty good. Both the wireless and wired Ethernet interfaces are Atheros, and it took awhile for most Linux and BSD system to catch up with the wired interface, which you should know is 10/100 mb and not gigabit speed. heh, and i had questions about mentioning 'off brand nics'. so, let me explain that - if you don't recognize the brand of the network card as being a fortune 500 company, you might want to do some homework on it. I really don't believe in spending $700+ for a laptop, but after using this bargain model for about eight months, I'd recommend spending $500-$600 for a theoretically better combination of hardware. ... and people don't understand when i say 'you get what you pay for' - i don't believe in fighting with drivers for 10 hours - that's $500 of my time + money for bar tab to relieve my frustration. The short version: Unless it says Thinkpad in the name, it's not a Thinkpad. as some have mentioned in this thread, even some of the Thinkpads are sold with cheaper keyboards and other hardware. but, if you read some reviews, spend a little (~$1k should do imo), you'll end up with a solid portable. ps - good review.
Re: best labtop for debian
On 18 February 2011 16:39, shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: Snip as some have mentioned in this thread, even some of the Thinkpads are sold with cheaper keyboards and other hardware. but, if you read some reviews, spend a little (~$1k should do imo), you'll end up with a solid portable. 1,000 USD doesn't count as ``a little'' to all of us! We aren't all well-paid American programmers. ;-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=1bGyOiOoM=LnZVA+p3ruGxHVNzagFT55a7U=s...@mail.gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/18/2011 05:23 PM, Francis Southern wrote: On 18 February 2011 16:39, shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: Snip as some have mentioned in this thread, even some of the Thinkpads are sold with cheaper keyboards and other hardware. but, if you read some reviews, spend a little (~$1k should do imo), you'll end up with a solid portable. 1,000 USD doesn't count as ``a little'' to all of us! We aren't all well-paid American programmers. ;-) Heck, even the odd well-paid American programmer has wife, kids, mortgages, tuition, child support if he wasn't prudent, etc, etc that drag down the bank balance... -- The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery. Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d5f6707.6090...@cox.net
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/16/2011 04:51 PM, Celejar wrote: On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilsonag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Yes. And use dodgy materials and shoddy engineering. -- The normal condition of mankind is tyranny and misery. Milton Friedman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d5f6777.9020...@cox.net
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/19/2011 05:52 AM, Steven Rosenberg wrote: On 02/08/2011 10:47 PM, Bob wrote: I was liking the look of the G555 for my farther. Anyone tried one? on the plus side nice big screen, on the down its only 1366x768 I also like the full keyboard etc.. The integrated webcam is only VGA, but is there any real advantage to higher resolution webcams? I have a Lenovo G555. I bought it because it was cheap - about $329. For that money you're not getting a Thinkpad. Thinkpad is nowhere in the name, and that's for a reason. I sort of thought that I'd get some of the Thinkpad vibe with the G555, but that didn't really happen. It looks nice, the keyboard is great, the screen is short and wide like most laptops these days. The webcam is pretty awful. The Alps touchpad is REALLY awful. Windows users have it way worse than Linux users because the drivers in Windows 7 don't allow you to turn off tap to click like you can in most Linux distros. As a result, the cursor is erratic. You can totally turn off the touchpad on the G555 in any OS with Fn-F8. Yep, they have a key combination to completely turn off the touchpad but no way in their OS of choice, Windows 7, of turning off tap-to-click. So the experience in Debian Squeeze is way better than in Windows 7, I'll say that. There are 3 USB ports, which work great, But there's no Cardbus slot - I guess they're eliminating those in many laptops. It has nice memory-card slot that works well in Linux. There are sound-muting issues when you plug in headphones that are solved either with slight configuration changes, or in my case with Debian Squeeze by using the 2.6.37 Liquorix kernel. The wireless is pretty good. Both the wireless and wired Ethernet interfaces are Atheros, and it took awhile for most Linux and BSD system to catch up with the wired interface, which you should know is 10/100 mb and not gigabit speed. I really don't believe in spending $700+ for a laptop, but after using this bargain model for about eight months, I'd recommend spending $500-$600 for a theoretically better combination of hardware. There is a newer Lenovo for $499 that includes an Intel i3 CPU, more memory and a bigger hard drive. But I don't know if the other liabilities hardware-wise, especially the dodgy touchpad have been dealth with. The short version: Unless it says Thinkpad in the name, it's not a Thinkpad. Thanks for that, extremely informative. My father has a slightly abusive relationship with laptops judging by the other problems you've encountered the build quality's probably not good enough anyway. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d5f6cfb.6050...@homeurl.co.uk
Re: best labtop for debian
on 23:00 Wed 09 Feb, Bob Proulx (b...@proulx.com) wrote: Dr. Ed Morbius wrote: My avoiding use of GNOME/KDE (and hence network-manager and its GUI interfaces) doesn't help matters much. I suspect that if I were to run one or the other, I'd have fewer problems in that department. Have you tried wicd? It has a curses interface and so no need for any X components. I converted from network-manager to it at the suggestion of others on the mailing list and have been quite happy with it. It's installed though I clearly haven't messed with it enough to be fully comfortable or proficient with it. -- Dr. Ed Morbius, Chief Scientist /| Robot Wrangler / Staff Psychologist| When you seek unlimited power Krell Power Systems Unlimited| Go to Krell! signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
Hi On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 03:21, Kumar Appaiah a.ku...@alumni.iitm.ac.in wrote: On a related topic, could you please tell me which of the current ThinkPads have the same basic (awesome) feature-set which the old favourites (T61, T42 etc.) had? I am genuinely unaware, and wanted to know if all the ones available today (X-series, T-series, Edge etc.) carried similar goodness. Any takes on this? What about the Satellites? And eeePCs and similar? ducks for cover -- Mars 2 Stay! http://xkcd.com/801/ /etc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktikkg1ph4chhoods5hvsunmpw0qf+zfxwwa4o...@mail.gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
2011/2/16 Nuno Magalhães nunomagalh...@eu.ipp.pt Hi On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 03:21, Kumar Appaiah a.ku...@alumni.iitm.ac.in wrote: On a related topic, could you please tell me which of the current ThinkPads have the same basic (awesome) feature-set which the old favourites (T61, T42 etc.) had? I am genuinely unaware, and wanted to know if all the ones available today (X-series, T-series, Edge etc.) carried similar goodness. Any takes on this? What about the Satellites? And eeePCs and similar? ducks for cover yeah - the satellites and eeepcs are not in the same league (or price range) as the ibm t and x series (i don't know anything about 'edge'). again, you generally get what you pay for. sometimes more or less so. however, a $500 eeepc isn't going to be as nice as a $1800 x301 (or whatever they are now). that said, i generally like the eeepc stuff (as much as i've used them). i haven't taken them apart or anything. but they look like solid little machines for the price. i also like the olpc laptops - they are cheap, durable as hell (i want to go scuba diving with one and see how deep before it dies - that would be fun), and oh yeah, did i mention cheap. the olpc won't run any big graphic stuff and rally the display does look like shit (but you can read the screen in direct sun), but for basic use, you can't get better - anywhere. oh, and it's got three trackpads (not kidding). what i generally do when looking at a new machine is; figure out my price range, figure out what i really want in a machine (battery, graphics, durability), check a bunch of reviews, and jump. linux will probably support whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that.
Re: best labtop for debian
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 17:13:17 -0500 shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... whatever you get as long as the hardware isn't too strange. strange might be a gsm modem, fingerprint reader, dual mode graphics, no name 802.11 card - stuff like that. Not sure what you mean by a 'no name 802.11 card' - they all use the same handful of chipsets, some of which have better linux support, and some worse. Are 'no name' cards more likely to use one of the less supported chipsets than brand name ones? Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110216175116.66651f0e.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Wed, Feb 09, 2011 at 04:10:11PM EST, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:09:23 -0700 [..] Good to know, thanks - I've heard that before. The keyboard is the one thing about which I'm really dissatisfied with my Acer Aspire, although that's not Linux specific. Not sure which particular models, which part of the world they ship.. etc. but Lenovo now often install lower quality keyboards on at least some ThinkPads, the main difference being that where the old keyboard had a solid metal back plate, the newer model has a thinner sheet of metal with rectangular cutouts every couple of inches either to help dissipate the heat or reduce the weight of the machine by a few grams. As a result, the newer keyboards have considerably more flex than the older models. Seems other folks have noticed: http://www.google.com/search?q=thinkpad+keyboard+flex In my case some of the keys, especially near the top right of the keyboard, in the area where the Backspace key lives, had the ‘under the fingers’ stability of a trampoline and produced unseemly ‘thunks’ every time I hit them. Better than my prose, here's an graphic illustration of the symptoms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKs1YqEWXD0 It was a bit of an uphill battle, but after spending over an hour of my time on the phone with Lenovo, I was able to have one of the older models overnighted to me free of charge under the machine's warranty. In the event you or anyone else acquires a ThinkPad in the near future, I advise you read recent reviews of the model you have in mind, paying attention to what they say about the keyboard. And be prepared to fork out an extra 50-70 dollars to buy a replacement keyboard from a 3rd party reseller in the event Lenovo cannot / will not replace it. Reminds me I need to buy a couple of spares while they last... cj -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110217011627.GH4201@pavo.local
Re: best labtop for debian
Jochen Schulz schreef: hamed hosseini: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop I have been using an X200 for the last two years and I am still very pleased with it. The X201 is a bit more expensive and features more recent CPUs, but you might want to consider getting an X200 with an old CPU and invest the money you saved in a high quality SSD. I am using an Intel X25m (1st generation) and I love it. Let me advertise my Dell XPS. It is a bit three years old, but almost everything worked straight from the beginning. I only had to tweak a bit with alsa to get the internal microphone working. For the rest, no issues. I have the model with an nvidia chip, it was also sold with intel graphics. They also used to be sold (I don't know the current status) with Debian, in case you don't want to pay the MS tax. As for the laptop: it has too much processor for the battery, it lasts only about 3 hours when new. The keyboard is fine, the touchpad great. Sjoerd signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 09:06:28AM -1000, Joel Roth wrote: I'm happy with my i5 ThinkPad T410 with Intel HD Graphics. I have problems with the Realtek 8191SE wireless network device. The Realtek driver built but didn't appear to support scanning for wireless networks. (I didn't manage to get ndiswrapper working.) I thought I'd try again after seeing another posting on this device. The native driver appears to work fine. -- Joel Roth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110210100036.GA25397@sprite
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 15:23 -0500, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. A lot of important aspects have already been noted in this thread, but apart from superb Linux support, wonderful keyboards, durable hardware and the good looks (sic!) another *very* important aspect is the hardware maintenance support from IBM/Lenovo. What I mean by that: * You have access to the original hardware maintenance manuals, used by Lenovo/IBM technicians themselves. (c.f. [0] for T60) These manuals contain detailed instructions to perferm almost *any* maintenance work you might ever want/have to perform on your Thinkpad. * You can easily order original replacement parts (CRU/FRU) directly from IBM/Lenovo or from third party retailer. You know the exact part numbers and have access to the complete range from screws to displays or mainboards. [1] Have a look! Where do you get this level of information and support? * You are *allowed* to perform a wide range of things without voiding your warranty. I am not aware of any other vendor that provides this kind of support for laptops or other hardware in general. [0] http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-62733.html [1] http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-62741 http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-50278.html -- .''`. Wolodja Wentlandwolodja.wentl...@ed.ac.uk : :' : `. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC `- 081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA 36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 15:23 -0500, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. A lot of important aspects have already been noted in this thread, but apart from superb Linux support, wonderful keyboards, durable hardware and the good looks (sic!) another *very* important aspect is the hardware maintenance support from IBM/Lenovo. What I mean by that: * You have access to the original hardware maintenance manuals, used by Lenovo/IBM technicians themselves. (c.f. [0] for T60) These manuals contain detailed instructions to perferm almost *any* maintenance work you might ever want/have to perform on your Thinkpad. * You can easily order original replacement parts (CRU/FRU) directly from IBM/Lenovo or from third party retailer. You know the exact part numbers and have access to the complete range from screws to displays or mainboards. [1] Have a look! Where do you get this level of information and support? * You are *allowed* to perform a wide range of things without voiding your warranty. I am not aware of any other vendor that provides this kind of support for laptops or other hardware in general. [0] http://bit.ly/bCAun7 (ibm.com) [1] http://bit.ly/2LWxkr (ibm.com) http://bit.ly/eI1Smo (ibm.com) -- .''`. Wolodja Wentlandwolodja.wentl...@ed.ac.uk : :' : `. `'` 4096R/CAF14EFC `- 081C B7CD FF04 2BA9 94EA 36B2 8B7F 7D30 CAF1 4EFC signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Wolodja Wentland babi...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 15:23 -0500, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. A lot of important aspects have already been noted in this thread, but apart from superb Linux support, wonderful keyboards, durable hardware and the good looks (sic!) another *very* important aspect is the hardware maintenance support from IBM/Lenovo. if you're going to go with pc hardware sturdiness / design, i'd go lenovo (or mac). if you're going to go with support (in the us at least) i'd go with dell and pay for the gold support. i haven't found better for desktops or servers. per replacement parts - i can open up most laptops (the cheaper ones i won't because they're a pita to deal with). however, on my own stuff, i get the warranty and after the warranty is up, i know that i will need to buy a new computer when something goes wrong. if the computer is for business, i buy a new machine at the end of the warranty (without a second thought). so, i suppose with support, it just depends on how much time you like to spend on the phone with people and whether you like to get work done or wait for rma's. either way, i think it's pretty universal that linux will support most of the hardware you'll find in a laptop. past this, just figure out what you want as far as cost, hardware, manufacturer, and support.
Re: best labtop for debian
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:25:07 + Wolodja Wentland babi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 15:23 -0500, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. A lot of important aspects have already been noted in this thread, but apart from superb Linux support, wonderful keyboards, durable hardware and the good looks (sic!) another *very* important aspect is the hardware maintenance support from IBM/Lenovo. ... Very interesting - thanks! Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110210160145.e11e2b79.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 13:32:35 -0500 shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com wrote: ... if you're going to go with pc hardware sturdiness / design, i'd go lenovo (or mac). if you're going to go with support (in the us at least) i'd go with dell and pay for the gold support. i haven't found better for desktops or servers. per replacement parts - i can open up most laptops (the cheaper ones i won't because they're a pita to deal with). however, on my own stuff, i get the warranty and after the warranty is up, i know that i will need to buy a new computer when something goes wrong. if the computer is for business, i buy a new machine at the end of the warranty (without a second thought). so, i suppose with support, it just depends on how much time you like to spend on the phone with people and whether you like to get work done or wait for rma's. either way, i think it's pretty universal that linux will support most of the hardware you'll find in a laptop. past this, just figure out what you want as far as cost, hardware, manufacturer, and support. Thanks for this analysis. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110210160222.e9f3939d.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
Andrei Popescu: Of course, a ThinkPad is not perfect for everyone, True. here are some possible cons: - battery life is not very good Depends on the model and the battery. - quite heavy Dito. My 12 X200 weighs less than 1.5kg. Quite portable, I would say. - many models have only a TrackPoint - not stylish That's a matter of taste. :) But you forgot the most miportant reason: price. J. -- As a child I pulled the legs from a spider. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/09/2011 03:45 PM, shawn wilson wrote: i agree, the thinkpad is solid. personally, i got a macbook pro because i wanted 2x+ the battery that even the best thinkpad could offer. however, this isn't linux (bsd at best). SWMBO has a Macbook, I couldn't even access the hard drive from Knoppix to back it up with dd, now they've gone Nvidia the open source support is worse that it was with Intel. i think that linux should work with most any laptop hardware with the exception of the new video cards that switch between the high end and low end for performance / battery - i don't know whether there is linux driver support for this yet. that said, i haven't checked the documentation, so the devs could have surpassed my expectations here. that said, since i just bought a laptop, when i was looking, i didn't check the documentation to narrow anything down. i went between a thinkpad x301 (iirc), alienware, and mbp. the alienware was too heavy, and the thinkpad was more than the mbp with half the battery. this made up my mind - not linux's hcl. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d52703f.5030...@homeurl.co.uk
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 21:24:28 Dr. Ed Morbius wrote: on 15:23 Tue 08 Feb, Celejar (cele...@gmail.com) wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. Hi, all, I'm just wondering how people feel about Toshiba Satellite laptops for debian. I bought an older, used one (1135-S125) for about $100. I installed squeeze on it with LXDE without any problems. I put a DLink pcmcia wireless adapter in it, and it works fine with wicd. I may upgrade soon, and I was wondering if newer Satellites work as well (especially any built-in wireless adapters). -Chris | Christopher Judd, Ph. D. | | Research Scientist III | | NYS Dept. of Health j...@wadsworth.org | | Wadsworth Center - ESP | | P. O. Box 509518 486-7829 | | Albany, NY 12201-0509 | IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or sensitive information which is, or may be, legally privileged or otherwise protected by law from further disclosure. It is intended only for the addressee. If you received this in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it to you, please do not distribute, copy or use it or any attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201102090908.39835.j...@wadsworth.org
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:02:31 -0500 Allan Wind allan_w...@lifeintegrity.com wrote: On 2011-02-08T15:23:29, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. The T and Z models that I have used or owned have held up well with use. Keyword is nice. I have a 1920x1200 screen on my current laptop which works well for me. Battery last for a while although I am usually plugged in. They are widely used so even specialized hardware usually get drivers and you have resources like thinkwiki.org. Thanks. Comparison to my Acer Aspire 3690: Keyboard is terrible (although that may be subjective), battery was meager to begin with, an hour and a half of basic use (but I bought a bottom of the barrel model), and is now almost useless, 2-3 minutes (but it's been four years). Just about all HW supported, except for the flash reader, which I've never gotten to work properly, but I haven't spent much time on it, the Winmodem, and I've never gotten suspend-to-ram working properly. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209160437.5eb8f529.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:09:23 -0700 Bob Proulx b...@proulx.com wrote: Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. The IBM ThinkPads were always solid equipment and all of the hardware was supported very well. They did what you expected a laptop to do in that all of the peripherals worked with Linux drivers. Networking worked with native drivers. Graphics display worked with native drivers. Suspend to ram works. Suspend to disk works. The volume buttons work. The keyboard light can be toggled on and off. The special function keys work. Battery life is reasonable. The keyboard is the best of any of the laptops I have used. In my experience everything just works. Good to know, thanks - I've heard that before. The keyboard is the one thing about which I'm really dissatisfied with my Acer Aspire, although that's not Linux specific. Contrast that experience to other brands of laptops I have used where only 80% of the peripherals had working Linux drivers. With one I had endless trouble with the graphics chip and eventually traded the machine out. With one I could only get suspend to work by using the kernel patches for suspend2 (now known as tux-on-ice). Excellent as those were it meant I always required a custom patched kernel. But I also required a custom kernel for the wifi driver on that machine. So I couldn't just install security upgrades for kernels but always had to spend the time to build patched new ones. Another machine I could never get all of the special function keys running. There seems to alway be pieces that never function with Linux. Vendors put on proprietary (often very cheap) hardware that causes endless problems for users. For a long time it was very useful for people who installed GNU/Linux on a new laptop to put up a page on the web documenting what was needed to make it work so that we could share progress in the struggle. And it was always a struggle. I have done that and it was useful. But I stopped doing it when I started using ThinkPads. The reason is that I stopped needing to do anything special to install a working system on a ThinkPad. Everything just worked. Having used other brands it was always like being beaten with a stick. Moving to the ThinkPad was like having the pain stop. The ThinkPads traditionally have been just very normal and standard hardware. Being mainstream this meant the Linux kernel drivers were sufficient and well supported. This is what made them so nice. But as unsupported wifi chips and graphics drivers get added to newer machines this means that now you have to be careful not to get one of those. Now you have to watch out and make sure the components are supportable. I don't think future ThinkPads will be as uniformly supportable as the older models. Yes - the very message I was responding to stated: I have problems with the Realtek 8191SE wireless network device. The Realtek driver built but didn't appear to support scanning for wireless networks. (I didn't manage to get ndiswrapper working.) On various ThinkPads of mine and others I have replaced fans (three), keyboards (once), individual keys (once), display (backlight died), busted plastic case parts (once). You can repair them. And taking them apart and putting them together with the new parts is usually pretty straight-forward. My 2004 T42 is still running great. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Bob Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209161011.e0264f03.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 18:24:28 -0800 Dr. Ed Morbius dredmorb...@gmail.com wrote: on 15:23 Tue 08 Feb, Celejar (cele...@gmail.com) wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. Generally: solid construction, good hardware support for Linux, excellent online product information (I don't know if the *1991* 486 ThinkPad I'd aquired (originally supporting OS/2) is still listed, but it certainly was well into the 2000s). The keyboards are full-featured and full-sized. For those who like it (and I do), the Trackpoint has no substitutes. I had for a time a work-issued Dell system, with its own variant of the Trackpoint. Dell's implementation used a hard, abrasive rubber which quickly rubbed your fingers raw. IBM's got an attention to detail here (an unfortunately, ThinkPad nibs didn't fit the Dell device). Under warrantee, support service is excellent. I had my current display swapped with 3 days downtime. One key point to remember is that ThinkPad is no longer an IBM product (though there stills eems to be a strong brand relationship between the two, including a lot of current info on IBM's website). Under Lenovo's guidance, I've seen some warts, and my current T410s has some issues: wireless, suspend/hibernate, and display, largely. All work pretty reliably much of the time, but with some warts: - I can't switch from X after starting a GUI session -- console won't display. - After suspending by closing the lid, display won't reactivate. - Suspend/hibernate periodically doesn't restore. I'm also not entirely happy with the 1440x900 screen resolution (a comperable 17 MacBook Pro offers 1680x1050). That said, given alternatives, it's the least bad solution, if not one that leaves me smiling all the time. Thanks for the detailed report. Suspend and wireless are generally the sorts of things where one runs into problems. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209161516.c032bc68.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
on 16:15 Wed 09 Feb, Celejar (cele...@gmail.com) wrote: On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 18:24:28 -0800 Dr. Ed Morbius dredmorb...@gmail.com wrote: on 15:23 Tue 08 Feb, Celejar (cele...@gmail.com) wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. Generally: solid construction, good hardware support for Linux, excellent online product information (I don't know if the *1991* 486 ThinkPad I'd aquired (originally supporting OS/2) is still listed, but it certainly was well into the 2000s). The keyboards are full-featured and full-sized. For those who like it (and I do), the Trackpoint has no substitutes. I had for a time a work-issued Dell system, with its own variant of the Trackpoint. Dell's implementation used a hard, abrasive rubber which quickly rubbed your fingers raw. IBM's got an attention to detail here (an unfortunately, ThinkPad nibs didn't fit the Dell device). Under warrantee, support service is excellent. I had my current display swapped with 3 days downtime. One key point to remember is that ThinkPad is no longer an IBM product (though there stills eems to be a strong brand relationship between the two, including a lot of current info on IBM's website). Under Lenovo's guidance, I've seen some warts, and my current T410s has some issues: wireless, suspend/hibernate, and display, largely. All work pretty reliably much of the time, but with some warts: - I can't switch from X after starting a GUI session -- console won't display. - After suspending by closing the lid, display won't reactivate. - Suspend/hibernate periodically doesn't restore. I'm also not entirely happy with the 1440x900 screen resolution (a comperable 17 MacBook Pro offers 1680x1050). That said, given alternatives, it's the least bad solution, if not one that leaves me smiling all the time. Thanks for the detailed report. Suspend and wireless are generally the sorts of things where one runs into problems. Of these, wireless is the larger hassle. My avoiding use of GNOME/KDE (and hence network-manager and its GUI interfaces) doesn't help matters much. I suspect that if I were to run one or the other, I'd have fewer problems in that department. The suspend/restore behavior is actually pretty reliable. I can think of one recent restart which failed, going back over the past month or two, with 2-3 daily hibernations. It's also very /quick/, especially suspend/restore (to RAM), though hibernate (to disk) ain't too shabby either with SDD -- the longer delay is going through the BIOS + GRUB + initial kernel boot sequence. I've taken to running a pm-suspend-hybrid rather than pm-suspend as a belt-and-braces security measure. I can afford the extra few seconds on shutdown and appreciate the state preservation on restore should I manage to run the battery flat. -- Dr. Ed Morbius, Chief Scientist /| Robot Wrangler / Staff Psychologist| When you seek unlimited power Krell Power Systems Unlimited| Go to Krell! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209231843.gk5...@altaira.krellpowersys.exo
Re: best labtop for debian
Dr. Ed Morbius wrote: My avoiding use of GNOME/KDE (and hence network-manager and its GUI interfaces) doesn't help matters much. I suspect that if I were to run one or the other, I'd have fewer problems in that department. Have you tried wicd? It has a curses interface and so no need for any X components. I converted from network-manager to it at the suggestion of others on the mailing list and have been quite happy with it. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
best labtop for debian
i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop
Re: best labtop for debian
hamed hosseini: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop I have been using an X200 for the last two years and I am still very pleased with it. The X201 is a bit more expensive and features more recent CPUs, but you might want to consider getting an X200 with an old CPU and invest the money you saved in a high quality SSD. I am using an Intel X25m (1st generation) and I love it. J. -- When standing at the top of beachy head I find the rocks below very attractive. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
thank you On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Jochen Schulz m...@well-adjusted.de wrote: hamed hosseini: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop I have been using an X200 for the last two years and I am still very pleased with it. The X201 is a bit more expensive and features more recent CPUs, but you might want to consider getting an X200 with an old CPU and invest the money you saved in a high quality SSD. I am using an Intel X25m (1st generation) and I love it. J. -- When standing at the top of beachy head I find the rocks below very attractive. [Agree] [Disagree] http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk1RHSgACgkQ+AfZydWK2zkEkwCeIOEMcWCdE25y+Sk2lJI13EDX FQoAnjUnQJXPF915HOa7i4E3PLyT3pQB =0C8T -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: best labtop for debian
On Ma, 08 feb 11, 13:52:35, hamed hosseini wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop I would go for a ThinkPad. They might be a bit more expensive, but in my experience it's worth it. Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:52:35 +0330 hamed hosseini hoss...@gmail.com wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop On solar power so must use a laptop as a desktop - been using an Acer Aspire 3614WLCI for just over 4 years - rock solid but hard drive had to be replaced after 4 years. Brother in law used a Toshiba A100 for 4 years and then passed it onto me, and it's sound as a drum. He used it as a desktop as well. It didn't need any replacements over that time. Hope that helps. Charlie -- http://www.skymesh.net.au/~taogypsy/ - Registered Linux User:- 329524 *** What is to give light must endure burning. ---VIKTOR FRANKL *** Debian GNU/Linux - just the best way to create magic - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110208221452.3bc01c15@taowild
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 2011-02-08 at 12:50 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: I would go for a ThinkPad. They might be a bit more expensive, but in my experience it's worth it. absolutely. I was (and still am) using a T42p and now I have a X301 which is just great. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1297165651.860.21.ca...@peanut.datentraeger.li
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:22 PM, hamed hosseini hoss...@gmail.com wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop Have you seen this? http://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed -- Sincerely Yours' Mark Goldshtein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTin_yPQyx0nrHoGiyA83W02=nwnbte1jurrhb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
hamed hosseini wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop Not kidding, is labtop a real word? -- Jimmy Johnson Debian Wheezy - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda13 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d5190a0.6030...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On Ma, 08 feb 11, 10:51:12, Jimmy Johnson wrote: hamed hosseini wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop Not kidding, is labtop a real word? Does this count? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=labtop Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 12:47:31PM +0100, Peter Beck wrote: On Tue, 2011-02-08 at 12:50 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: I would go for a ThinkPad. They might be a bit more expensive, but in my experience it's worth it. absolutely. I was (and still am) using a T42p and now I have a X301 which is just great. I'm happy with my i5 ThinkPad T410 with Intel HD Graphics. I have problems with the Realtek 8191SE wireless network device. The Realtek driver built but didn't appear to support scanning for wireless networks. (I didn't manage to get ndiswrapper working.) To get better video performance, I ended up compiling Intel's Xorg video driver (xf86-video-intel). Shrinking the Windows 7 partition was awkward, although it looks like Partition Wizard (based on Linux =) will handle this task easily. Cheers, -- Joel Roth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110208190628.GA11962@sprite
[OT]Re: best labtop for debian
Not kidding, is labtop a real word? As for being a member of the words listed in an English dictionary I'd state no. It is a misspelled form of laptop, I blindly guess. As for 'valid' word: you cannot create invalid words out of a (valid) combo of valid chars. 'Gans' is such a word, just as 'qyf', but 'have milk' and 'n074nym0r€$' are not. That's grammar, rules are courtesy of English(tm). I hope u enjoy reading this as much as I did recalling our lecture. Greets Simon this post is sponsored by Yah0o Answres - We'll find a Stupid Question!
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 09:06:28 -1000 Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 12:47:31PM +0100, Peter Beck wrote: On Tue, 2011-02-08 at 12:50 +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote: I would go for a ThinkPad. They might be a bit more expensive, but in my experience it's worth it. absolutely. I was (and still am) using a T42p and now I have a X301 which is just great. I'm happy with my i5 ThinkPad T410 with Intel HD Graphics. I have problems with the Realtek 8191SE wireless network device. The Realtek driver built but didn't appear to support scanning for wireless networks. (I didn't manage to get ndiswrapper working.) I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. Celejar -- foffl.sourceforge.net - Feeds OFFLine, an offline RSS/Atom aggregator mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110208152329.005e35f6.cele...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On 2011-02-08T15:23:29, Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. The T and Z models that I have used or owned have held up well with use. Keyword is nice. I have a 1920x1200 screen on my current laptop which works well for me. Battery last for a while although I am usually plugged in. They are widely used so even specialized hardware usually get drivers and you have resources like thinkwiki.org. /Allan -- Allan Wind Life Integrity, LLC http://lifeintegrity.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110208210231.GA7343@vent.lifeintegrity.localnet
Re: best labtop for debian
Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. The IBM ThinkPads were always solid equipment and all of the hardware was supported very well. They did what you expected a laptop to do in that all of the peripherals worked with Linux drivers. Networking worked with native drivers. Graphics display worked with native drivers. Suspend to ram works. Suspend to disk works. The volume buttons work. The keyboard light can be toggled on and off. The special function keys work. Battery life is reasonable. The keyboard is the best of any of the laptops I have used. In my experience everything just works. Contrast that experience to other brands of laptops I have used where only 80% of the peripherals had working Linux drivers. With one I had endless trouble with the graphics chip and eventually traded the machine out. With one I could only get suspend to work by using the kernel patches for suspend2 (now known as tux-on-ice). Excellent as those were it meant I always required a custom patched kernel. But I also required a custom kernel for the wifi driver on that machine. So I couldn't just install security upgrades for kernels but always had to spend the time to build patched new ones. Another machine I could never get all of the special function keys running. There seems to alway be pieces that never function with Linux. Vendors put on proprietary (often very cheap) hardware that causes endless problems for users. For a long time it was very useful for people who installed GNU/Linux on a new laptop to put up a page on the web documenting what was needed to make it work so that we could share progress in the struggle. And it was always a struggle. I have done that and it was useful. But I stopped doing it when I started using ThinkPads. The reason is that I stopped needing to do anything special to install a working system on a ThinkPad. Everything just worked. Having used other brands it was always like being beaten with a stick. Moving to the ThinkPad was like having the pain stop. The ThinkPads traditionally have been just very normal and standard hardware. Being mainstream this meant the Linux kernel drivers were sufficient and well supported. This is what made them so nice. But as unsupported wifi chips and graphics drivers get added to newer machines this means that now you have to be careful not to get one of those. Now you have to watch out and make sure the components are supportable. I don't think future ThinkPads will be as uniformly supportable as the older models. On various ThinkPads of mine and others I have replaced fans (three), keyboards (once), individual keys (once), display (backlight died), busted plastic case parts (once). You can repair them. And taking them apart and putting them together with the new parts is usually pretty straight-forward. My 2004 T42 is still running great. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
On Ma, 08 feb 11, 15:09:23, Bob Proulx wrote: Celejar wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. The IBM ThinkPads were always solid equipment and all of the hardware was supported very well. [snip] Of course, a ThinkPad is not perfect for everyone, here are some possible cons: - battery life is not very good - quite heavy - many models have only a TrackPoint - not stylish Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: best labtop for debian
on 15:23 Tue 08 Feb, Celejar (cele...@gmail.com) wrote: I'm curious - everyone has always seemed to love ThinkPads, but I've never understood what exactly makes them so popular. I'm not disagreeing or challenging - I've never used one, and I just want to understand why everyone swears by them. Generally: solid construction, good hardware support for Linux, excellent online product information (I don't know if the *1991* 486 ThinkPad I'd aquired (originally supporting OS/2) is still listed, but it certainly was well into the 2000s). The keyboards are full-featured and full-sized. For those who like it (and I do), the Trackpoint has no substitutes. I had for a time a work-issued Dell system, with its own variant of the Trackpoint. Dell's implementation used a hard, abrasive rubber which quickly rubbed your fingers raw. IBM's got an attention to detail here (an unfortunately, ThinkPad nibs didn't fit the Dell device). Under warrantee, support service is excellent. I had my current display swapped with 3 days downtime. One key point to remember is that ThinkPad is no longer an IBM product (though there stills eems to be a strong brand relationship between the two, including a lot of current info on IBM's website). Under Lenovo's guidance, I've seen some warts, and my current T410s has some issues: wireless, suspend/hibernate, and display, largely. All work pretty reliably much of the time, but with some warts: - I can't switch from X after starting a GUI session -- console won't display. - After suspending by closing the lid, display won't reactivate. - Suspend/hibernate periodically doesn't restore. I'm also not entirely happy with the 1440x900 screen resolution (a comperable 17 MacBook Pro offers 1680x1050). That said, given alternatives, it's the least bad solution, if not one that leaves me smiling all the time. -- Dr. Ed Morbius Chief Scientist / Robot Wrangler When you seek unlimited power Krell Power Systems Unlimited Go to Krell! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209022428.gh5...@altaira.krellpowersys.exo
Re: best labtop for debian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 03:09:23PM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: The IBM ThinkPads were always solid equipment and all of the hardware was supported very well. They did what you expected a laptop to do in that all of the peripherals worked with Linux drivers. Networking worked with native drivers. Graphics display worked with native drivers. Suspend to ram works. Suspend to disk works. The volume buttons work. The keyboard light can be toggled on and off. The special function keys work. Battery life is reasonable. The keyboard is the best of any of the laptops I have used. In my experience everything just works. On a related topic, could you please tell me which of the current ThinkPads have the same basic (awesome) feature-set which the old favourites (T61, T42 etc.) had? I am genuinely unaware, and wanted to know if all the ones available today (X-series, T-series, Edge etc.) carried similar goodness. Thanks! Kumar -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO (or Linux) is the answer. (Taken from a .signature from someone from the UK, source unknown) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110209032135.ga18...@bluemoon.alumni.iitm.ac.in
Re: best labtop for debian
Andrei Popescu wrote: On Ma, 08 feb 11, 10:51:12, Jimmy Johnson wrote: hamed hosseini wrote: i want buy labtop,tell me best labtop for debian os? 900$-1300$ my choice is lenovo labtop Not kidding, is labtop a real word? Does this count? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=labtop Regards, Andrei That's what I thought. LOL -- Jimmy Johnson SimplyMEPIS Beta-2 - KDE 4.5.3 at sda9 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d521438.6090...@gmail.com
Re: best labtop for debian
On 02/09/2011 11:21 AM, Kumar Appaiah wrote: On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 03:09:23PM -0700, Bob Proulx wrote: The IBM ThinkPads were always solid equipment and all of the hardware was supported very well. They did what you expected a laptop to do in that all of the peripherals worked with Linux drivers. Networking worked with native drivers. Graphics display worked with native drivers. Suspend to ram works. Suspend to disk works. The volume buttons work. The keyboard light can be toggled on and off. The special function keys work. Battery life is reasonable. The keyboard is the best of any of the laptops I have used. In my experience everything just works. On a related topic, could you please tell me which of the current ThinkPads have the same basic (awesome) feature-set which the old favourites (T61, T42 etc.) had? I am genuinely unaware, and wanted to know if all the ones available today (X-series, T-series, Edge etc.) carried similar goodness. I was liking the look of the G555 for my farther. Anyone tried one? on the plus side nice big screen, on the down its only 1366x768 I also like the full keyboard etc.. The integrated webcam is only VGA, but is there any real advantage to higher resolution webcams? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d523879.2090...@homeurl.co.uk
Re: best labtop for debian
i agree, the thinkpad is solid. personally, i got a macbook pro because i wanted 2x+ the battery that even the best thinkpad could offer. however, this isn't linux (bsd at best). i think that linux should work with most any laptop hardware with the exception of the new video cards that switch between the high end and low end for performance / battery - i don't know whether there is linux driver support for this yet. that said, i haven't checked the documentation, so the devs could have surpassed my expectations here. that said, since i just bought a laptop, when i was looking, i didn't check the documentation to narrow anything down. i went between a thinkpad x301 (iirc), alienware, and mbp. the alienware was too heavy, and the thinkpad was more than the mbp with half the battery. this made up my mind - not linux's hcl.
