Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017, Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:16:55PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Actually,
the problem is that people have to MAKE assumptions and guesses
because you didn't state all the details up front.


The question is in the subject line.  given how I knew details might only 
create further afield  posts, I put the question there for all to 
discover.  what is to guess?

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:16:55PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Actually,
> the problem with the assumption here is, I am using a Linux shell, not a
> computer running Linux.

Actually,
the problem is that people have to MAKE assumptions and guesses
because you didn't state all the details up front.

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[davidson]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi Davidson,
Let me try to answer your good questions in context.


I am not a user of elinks, so I can present no direct solution to
your problem here. Nonetheless, I have a comment or two, which I
hope will be understood in accordance with the constructive spirit
in which I offer them.


Actually, your question is a good one, and lets me provide some
context for my own goals.



First comment: Is there prior context to this question? I see none
on this mailing list. Just FYI.


If you are asking why I broached the issue here, it is because
e-links, links, and lynx, are discussed here as all are part of
Debian distributions.


Of course. This question of mine arose from my own failure to read
your email carefully. In particular, I neglected to pay attention to
information you provided in the subject line.

I apologise for my ineptitude.


Given the development background of many here as well, if a back
door exists to my goals my hope is that someone will know it, or
confirm that it does not exist.


I completely agree that debian-user is a promising forum in which to
investigate the issue.


 does elinks have a way to change the character set display?


Second comment: You have not, as far as I can tell, fully described
here the context that motivates you to seek to change the character
set. In other words, what is the specific problem you experience
(on paypal's website, I gather) that makes you want to change the
character set?


Having failed to read the subject line, I confused myself here,
again. So embarrassing.


Granted I am sure I was not overly detailed, sometimes when working
against a personal deadline, and or writing from my office, I aim
for the simplest question to solve the goal.


You were sufficiently informative, and got straight to the point. I,
on the other hand, was too dumb to read the subject line.


My first question was if e-links has a way to display hidden links.
that I feel might solve the problem.  However I base that assumption
on my use of a browser that does provide this option lynx.

Now to answer your question.

A few months back Paypal changed the method of displaying
information in some communications, and on the site.
For example, while my e-mails discussing master debit card
transactions are still presented in my mail reader, which is pine,
an option with shellworld, who provides my direct contact with Linux
based programs.

We have alpine too, but I am not personally fond of Alpine.


I have (quite happily) used both pine and alpine, but it has been a
long time since I had access to a working instance of pine.


 Back to the issue.  Some e-mails from paypal, say the ones telling
me that I have earned cash back, appear to be blank text wise again
at least in pine. Once I checked with alpine, finding the text could
be read.


So it sounds like paypal is sends you html email. Apparently alpine
does a better job of rendering it. Got it.


Now, I suspect that the default character set for each program is
different.  I admit that some other term may better explain what I
mean, for example, another term related to display, but I am using
character set as a way to explain what I mean.


Okay.


Here is how all that relates to the website.



I received a money request from a friend.  Because paypal only
allows me to access my accounts using elinks,


Incidentally, I assume you have already tried changing the user-agent
header in lynx, to see whether paypal is merely blacklisting lynx by
its user-agent header? (As I know you well know, this is an
infuriatingly common practice.)


 Because paypal only allows me to access my accounts using elinks, I
find a way to both read the e-mail in elinks and reach my account.
I will explain how that is done if important, but I do not feel it
is where the problem is concerned.


Okay. Fine by me.


The email has a pay now link which is one I can select from the
keyboard. I am taken to a page where I can log in to pay, and I do
so.  However, while the page is labeled at the top suggesting I
could make a payment, the section of the page where such information
would appear is well garbled.  I have the same experience if I try
reading so called secured messages on the site too.  whatever is
being displayed is not appearing, perhaps the coding is dynamic, I
do not know.


So using elinks, you traverse three documents:

1. view email (document 1)
2. follow pay-now link, which loads a log-in page (document 2)
3. after log-in, a payment-page is loaded (document 3)

The third document is where the trouble arises, when elinks fails to
render some form or link on that page.

If it were me, I would want to save the problematic document (the
payment page), so that I could examine it at my leisure, using
whatever tools suited my purposes.

I understand that paypal won't communicate with you if you use
lynx.

But you could use elinks to obtain the payment-page, *save that page*,
and then view it in lynx. 

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Curt,
while i admit to feeding the distraction, the really important question 
has been  in the subject line the entire time,  if elinks has a show 
hidden links option comparative to lynx.

Cheers and thanks for your help,
Kare



On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, Curt wrote:


On 2017-12-14, Karen Lewellen  wrote:


Hi Curt, actually your answer was both kind and perhaps a step in the
solution direction ..I hope.  Will be more detailed when I answer
someone else, but I am wondering if it
is possible to change these settings or impact them short term say
in options?  Lynx is my  solution standard so to speak.  If I could
access paypal in lynx, the  show hidden links  option might address
my issue.  Thoughts?  With appreciation, for the Noble giggle as well,
Kare



Lynx? I thought you said elinks.

Briefly (I mean to be brief) I installed elinks, pressed escape, went
into the scroll-down 'Setup/Character set' menu and there you have a
list of character sets to choose from for your display; however, how
this Y answer helps with your X problem, I don't know (I have no paypal
account; otherwise, in the name of science and the holiday spirit of the
season, I'd try it out on elinks (or is it lynx?) in order to perhaps
experience whatever it is you are experiencing, however annoying it
might be.

Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.

Good luck.

--
"The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics."
— Charles Bukowski

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

I would add too that since my main question is in the subject line, i. e. 
yes elinks has this option or no, it does not...end of discussion.  If any 
aspect of the thread reflects that amusing x y  theory, it is the focus 
upon the  captcha smiles.

Kare



On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Actually,
the problem with the assumption here is, I am using a Linux shell, not a 
computer running Linux.

When using a shell, one cannot access playback in that fashion at all.
Do those steps from a command line shell, and you might be getting close.
I will add again,  the shell does not reach a sound card etc.
Now if the captcha reflected the thoughts of some with the w3c, i. e. its a 
math problem, its a honey pot, its something that does not require images at 
all,
The captcha..which is not the main thrust of my problem, would be  nowhere in 
this discussion.
The main thrust of my problem is accessing the hidden links, assuming they 
are there,  on the paypal page after I have logged in, and am trying to pay a 
money request.

Kare


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017, davidson wrote:


 On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, didier gaumet wrote:

>   Le 14/12/2017 ? 09:56, Curt a ?crit?:
>   [...]
> >   Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
> >   elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
> >   categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.
>   [...]
>   Curt's post reminded me that I do have a Paypal account and I have used
>   elinks from time to time in the past.
> 
>   So I Installed elinks on my Debian strech.

>   In order to be as close as possible to the context of Karen, I launched
>   elinks from the second virtual terminal (not from a X11 terminal), with
>   elinks default settings.
>   My system is configured in french (France) and Unicode 8 bits:
>   fr_FR.UTF-8.
>   The paypal dot fr  web page (I suppose it would the same with paypal 
>   dot

>   com) prompted me to connect and I was asked to enter a CAPTCHA code
>   (wich would have been displayed in an image in a graphic session) but
>   showed me an "Audio Button".
>   Pressing that "Audio Button" (I suppose this is its name because in
>   french it is called "bouton audio"), a panel proposed different options
>   and I pressed "Enter" to select "play" and the VLC media player played
>   an audio mp3 file spelling the code to enter.
>   I had to press "q" key to exit the VLC panel and the I could then
>   navigate on the paypal webpage to the "enter the hereupon code" zone to
>   type the code previously played.
> 
>   I did not enter the code because the headphone volume was to feeble on

>   the console for me to properly recognise english letters spelled by a
>   synthetic voice, sorry :-(

 To enable some interactive control (like making volume adjustments)
 over the application that my text browser launches to play external
 audio files, I put the following lines in my home directory's .mailcap
 file:

  $ grep '^audio' ~/.mailcap
  audio/x-wav; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.wav; needsterminal;
  description="WAV Audio"
  audio/mpeg; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mpg; needsterminal;
  description="MPEG Audio"
  audio/mpegurl; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.m3u; needsterminal;
  description="MPEG Audio URL"
  audio/x-mp3; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mp3; needsterminal;
  description="MPEG Audio"
  audio/mpeg4; vlc -I rc %s; needsterminal; description="MPEG-4 Audio"

 (The "-I rc" option string to vlc seems to be synonymous with "-I cli")

 When the browser launches vlc, there is a command line interface (with
 prompt '>') that understands commands like

 help   # view all available commands
 [hint: there are many; use Shift+UpArrow to see what scrolled off the
 screen]

  quit   # quit vlc
  repeat # toggle playing track over and over
  loop   # toggle playing playlist over and over; easier to type than
  repeat
  volume 300 # unsure what the scale is, but 256 seems to mean "100%"
  pause  # toggle pause state; paused/unpaused
  play   # resume playback
  seek 150   # go to 150 second mark)
  rate 0.5   # play at half-speed; only works reliably with local files

 For example, the following session toggles looping on (default was
 off), resumes playback (in case it had already ended), pauses
 playback, sets volume to 300, resumes (unpauses) playback, and then
 quits

 VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella (revision 2.2.7-0-g6e32381286)
 [various error messages snipped]
 [some memory address] [cli] lua interface: Listening on host "*console".
 VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella
 Command Line Interface initialized. Type `help' for help.
>   loop
>   play
>   pause
>   volume 300
>   pause
>   quit

 Lynx 

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

Actually,
the problem with the assumption here is, I am using a Linux shell, not a 
computer running Linux.

When using a shell, one cannot access playback in that fashion at all.
Do those steps from a command line shell, and you might be getting close.
I will add again,  the shell does not reach a sound card etc.
Now if the captcha reflected the thoughts of some with the w3c, i. e. its 
a math problem, its a honey pot, its something that does not require 
images at all,
The captcha..which is not the main thrust of my problem, would be  nowhere 
in this discussion.
The main thrust of my problem is accessing the hidden links, assuming they 
are there,  on the paypal page after I have logged in, and am trying to 
pay a  money request.

Kare


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
opposite." Nelson Mandela.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017, davidson wrote:


On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, didier gaumet wrote:


 Le 14/12/2017 ? 09:56, Curt a ?crit?:
 [...]
>  Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
>  elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
>  categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.
 [...]
 Curt's post reminded me that I do have a Paypal account and I have used
 elinks from time to time in the past.

 So I Installed elinks on my Debian strech.
 In order to be as close as possible to the context of Karen, I launched
 elinks from the second virtual terminal (not from a X11 terminal), with
 elinks default settings.
 My system is configured in french (France) and Unicode 8 bits:
 fr_FR.UTF-8.
 The paypal dot fr  web page (I suppose it would the same with paypal dot
 com) prompted me to connect and I was asked to enter a CAPTCHA code
 (wich would have been displayed in an image in a graphic session) but
 showed me an "Audio Button".
 Pressing that "Audio Button" (I suppose this is its name because in
 french it is called "bouton audio"), a panel proposed different options
 and I pressed "Enter" to select "play" and the VLC media player played
 an audio mp3 file spelling the code to enter.
 I had to press "q" key to exit the VLC panel and the I could then
 navigate on the paypal webpage to the "enter the hereupon code" zone to
 type the code previously played.

 I did not enter the code because the headphone volume was to feeble on
 the console for me to properly recognise english letters spelled by a
 synthetic voice, sorry :-(


To enable some interactive control (like making volume adjustments)
over the application that my text browser launches to play external
audio files, I put the following lines in my home directory's .mailcap
file:

 $ grep '^audio' ~/.mailcap
 audio/x-wav; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.wav; needsterminal;
 description="WAV Audio"
 audio/mpeg; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mpg; needsterminal;
 description="MPEG Audio"
 audio/mpegurl; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.m3u; needsterminal;
 description="MPEG Audio URL"
 audio/x-mp3; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mp3; needsterminal;
 description="MPEG Audio"
 audio/mpeg4; vlc -I rc %s; needsterminal; description="MPEG-4 Audio"

(The "-I rc" option string to vlc seems to be synonymous with "-I cli")

When the browser launches vlc, there is a command line interface (with
prompt '>') that understands commands like

help   # view all available commands
[hint: there are many; use Shift+UpArrow to see what scrolled off the screen]

 quit   # quit vlc
 repeat # toggle playing track over and over
 loop   # toggle playing playlist over and over; easier to type than
 repeat
 volume 300 # unsure what the scale is, but 256 seems to mean "100%"
 pause  # toggle pause state; paused/unpaused
 play   # resume playback
 seek 150   # go to 150 second mark)
 rate 0.5   # play at half-speed; only works reliably with local files

For example, the following session toggles looping on (default was
off), resumes playback (in case it had already ended), pauses
playback, sets volume to 300, resumes (unpauses) playback, and then
quits

VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella (revision 2.2.7-0-g6e32381286)
[various error messages snipped]
[some memory address] [cli] lua interface: Listening on host "*console".
VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella
Command Line Interface initialized. Type `help' for help.

 loop
 play
 pause
 volume 300
 pause
 quit


Lynx consults mailcap. And, according to this manual page, so does
elinks:

 Chapter 10. Managing External Viewers with Mailcap
 http://elinks.or.cz/documentation/html/manual.html-chunked/ch10.html

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Davidson,
Let me try to answer your good questions in context.




I am not a user of elinks, so I can present no direct solution to your
problem here. Nonetheless, I have a comment or two, which I hope will
be understood in accordance with the constructive spirit in which I
offer them.
Actually, your question is a good one, and lets me provide  some context 
for my  own goals.




First comment: Is there prior context to this question? I see none on
this mailing list. Just FYI.
If you are asking why I broached the issue here, it is because e-links, 
links, and lynx, are discussed here as  all are part of Debian 
distributions.
Given the development background of many here as well, if a back door 
exists to my goals my hope is that someone will know it, or confirm that 
it does not exist.


 >


 does elinks have a way to change the character set display?

Second comment: You have not, as far as I can tell, fully described
here the context that motivates you to seek to change the character
set. In other words, what is the specific problem you experience (on
paypal's website, I gather) that makes you want to change the
character set?


Granted I am sure I was not overly detailed, sometimes when working 
against a personal deadline, and or writing from my office, I aim for the 
simplest question to solve the goal.
My first question was if e-links has a way to display hidden links.  that 
I feel might solve the problem.  However I base that assumption on my use 
of a browser that does provide this option lynx.

Now to answer your question.
A few months back Paypal changed the method of displaying information in 
some  communications, and on the site.
For example, while my e-mails discussing master debit card transactions 
are still presented in my mail reader, which is pine, an option with 
shellworld, who provides my direct contact with Linux based programs.  We 
have alpine too, but I am not personally fond of Alpine.  Back to the 
issue.  Some e-mails from paypal,  say the ones telling me that I have 
earned cash back, appear to be blank text wise again at least in pine. 
Once I checked with alpine, finding the text could be read.
Now, I suspect that the default character set for each program is 
different.  I admit that some other term may better explain what I mean, 
for example,   another term related to display, but I am using character 
set  as a way to explain what I  mean.

Here is how all that relates to the website.
I received  a money request from a friend.  Because paypal only allows  me 
to access my accounts using elinks, I  find a way to both read the e-mail 
in elinks and reach my account.  I will explain how that is done if 
important, but  I do not feel it is where the problem is concerned.
The email has a pay now link which is  one I can select from the keyboard. 
I am  taken to a page where I can  log in to pay, and I do so.  However, 
while the page is labeled at the top suggesting  I could make a payment, 
the section  of the page where such information would appear is well 
garbled.  I have the same experience if I try reading so called secured 
messages on the site too.  whatever is being displayed is not appearing, 
perhaps the coding is dynamic, I do not know.
If elinks has a display hidden inks option the way lynx does, perhaps the 
information would appear.  If there are ways to choose other character 
sets, perhaps I can match the same one Alpine uses,  or try some 
options, and thereby also 
display the content...and make my payment.
I want to give you a chance to read these details before considering the 
other information in your e-mail.


Frankly the people solving the problem should be Paypal, but they have 
stated  that even with paid staff in charge of accessibility,  no one in 
Customer service knows anything about accommodations.

Thanks,
Karen




[Note: I, davidson, do not wish to suggest that wanting to change the
character set in elinks is a "strange problem". But your original post
appears to leave entirely to our imaginations the specific problem you
are experiencing with paypal's website when using elinks.]

|* After much interaction and wasted time, it finally becomes clear
|  that the user really wants help with X, and that Y wasn't even a
|  suitable solution for X.
| 
|  The problem occurs when people get their train of thought stuck on

|  one approach and become unable to take a step back. Remaining open
|  to having a new look at the bigger picture, these people might find
|  their way back to X and continue searching for alternative
|  solutions.


 No idea if this will help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
 now..all others generate an image verification.


That is appalling. Encountering such arbitrary design decisions
(willful breakage of accessibility, really) must be very frustrating.

I hope you find a remedy in this instance.

Good luck!

--

@wakandaho 10 Dec 2017

ppl on twitter who use a dense sociopolitical vocabulary 

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[davidson]

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017, davidson wrote:


help   # view all available commands
[hint: there are many; use Shift+UpArrow to see what scrolled off the screen]


*sigh*

use Shift+PgUp, I should have said. Shift+UpArrow is not helpful.

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[davidson]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2017, didier gaumet wrote:


Le 14/12/2017 à 09:56, Curt a écrit :
[...]

Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.

[...]
Curt's post reminded me that I do have a Paypal account and I have used
elinks from time to time in the past.

So I Installed elinks on my Debian strech.
In order to be as close as possible to the context of Karen, I launched
elinks from the second virtual terminal (not from a X11 terminal), with
elinks default settings.
My system is configured in french (France) and Unicode 8 bits: fr_FR.UTF-8.
The paypal dot fr  web page (I suppose it would the same with paypal dot
com) prompted me to connect and I was asked to enter a CAPTCHA code
(wich would have been displayed in an image in a graphic session) but
showed me an "Audio Button".
Pressing that "Audio Button" (I suppose this is its name because in
french it is called "bouton audio"), a panel proposed different options
and I pressed "Enter" to select "play" and the VLC media player played
an audio mp3 file spelling the code to enter.
I had to press "q" key to exit the VLC panel and the I could then
navigate on the paypal webpage to the "enter the hereupon code" zone to
type the code previously played.

I did not enter the code because the headphone volume was to feeble on
the console for me to properly recognise english letters spelled by a
synthetic voice, sorry :-(


To enable some interactive control (like making volume adjustments)
over the application that my text browser launches to play external
audio files, I put the following lines in my home directory's .mailcap
file:

 $ grep '^audio' ~/.mailcap
 audio/x-wav; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.wav; needsterminal; description="WAV 
Audio"
 audio/mpeg; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mpg; needsterminal; description="MPEG 
Audio"
 audio/mpegurl; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.m3u; needsterminal; description="MPEG 
Audio URL"
 audio/x-mp3; vlc -I rc %s; nametemplate=%s.mp3; needsterminal; description="MPEG 
Audio"
 audio/mpeg4; vlc -I rc %s; needsterminal; description="MPEG-4 Audio"

(The "-I rc" option string to vlc seems to be synonymous with "-I cli")

When the browser launches vlc, there is a command line interface (with
prompt '>') that understands commands like

 help   # view all available commands
[hint: there are many; use Shift+UpArrow to see what scrolled off the screen]

 quit   # quit vlc
 repeat # toggle playing track over and over
 loop   # toggle playing playlist over and over; easier to type than repeat
 volume 300 # unsure what the scale is, but 256 seems to mean "100%"
 pause  # toggle pause state; paused/unpaused
 play   # resume playback
 seek 150   # go to 150 second mark)
 rate 0.5   # play at half-speed; only works reliably with local files

For example, the following session toggles looping on (default was
off), resumes playback (in case it had already ended), pauses
playback, sets volume to 300, resumes (unpauses) playback, and then
quits

VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella (revision 2.2.7-0-g6e32381286)
[various error messages snipped]
[some memory address] [cli] lua interface: Listening on host "*console".
VLC media player 2.2.7 Umbrella
Command Line Interface initialized. Type `help' for help.

loop
play
pause
volume 300
pause
quit


Lynx consults mailcap. And, according to this manual page, so does
elinks:

 Chapter 10. Managing External Viewers with Mailcap
 http://elinks.or.cz/documentation/html/manual.html-chunked/ch10.html

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[didier gaumet]

Le 14/12/2017 à 09:56, Curt a écrit :
[...]
> Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
> elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
> categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.
[...]
Curt's post reminded me that I do have a Paypal account and I have used
elinks from time to time in the past.

So I Installed elinks on my Debian strech.
In order to be as close as possible to the context of Karen, I launched
elinks from the second virtual terminal (not from a X11 terminal), with
elinks default settings.
My system is configured in french (France) and Unicode 8 bits: fr_FR.UTF-8.
The paypal dot fr  web page (I suppose it would the same with paypal dot
com) prompted me to connect and I was asked to enter a CAPTCHA code
(wich would have been displayed in an image in a graphic session) but
showed me an "Audio Button".
Pressing that "Audio Button" (I suppose this is its name because in
french it is called "bouton audio"), a panel proposed different options
and I pressed "Enter" to select "play" and the VLC media player played
an audio mp3 file spelling the code to enter.
I had to press "q" key to exit the VLC panel and the I could then
navigate on the paypal webpage to the "enter the hereupon code" zone to
type the code previously played.

I did not enter the code because the headphone volume was to feeble on
the console for me to properly recognise english letters spelled by a
synthetic voice, sorry :-(

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Curt]

On 2017-12-14, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

> Hi Curt, actually your answer was both kind and perhaps a step in the
> solution direction ..I hope.  Will be more detailed when I answer
> someone else, but I am wondering if it
> is possible to change these settings or impact them short term say
> in options?  Lynx is my  solution standard so to speak.  If I could
> access paypal in lynx, the  show hidden links  option might address
> my issue.  Thoughts?  With appreciation, for the Noble giggle as well,
> Kare
>

Lynx? I thought you said elinks.

Briefly (I mean to be brief) I installed elinks, pressed escape, went
into the scroll-down 'Setup/Character set' menu and there you have a
list of character sets to choose from for your display; however, how
this Y answer helps with your X problem, I don't know (I have no paypal
account; otherwise, in the name of science and the holiday spirit of the
season, I'd try it out on elinks (or is it lynx?) in order to perhaps
experience whatever it is you are experiencing, however annoying it
might be.

Maybe some other kind soul (not that I am one of those) is both an
elinks guru and a paypal client (if they aren't mutually exclusive
categories) and he or she will pipe up here in this forum.

Good luck.

-- 
"The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics."
— Charles Bukowski

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

 Accept that your disclosure had nothing to do with   elinks the focus of 
my 
question  not how you mange something unrelated  at the core to my 
problem.
The nature of my body is the business of no one on this list. Your 
generalization  unrelated to elinks made it needful or the discussion 
would flow  of track.
why would how you manage a captcha be relevant if you did not feel your 
solution could apply to me  or  the topic?




On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Jude DaShiell wrote:

This disclosure of yours arrived after your original post and had it been 
included in your original post, I wouldn't have bothered answering your post 
at all.  No, I do not choose to think all people are interchangeable either.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:50:33
 From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
 To: Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com>
 Cc: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 04:51:03 + (UTC)
 Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

 good for you, however, you are not me.
 because of a condition tied to anesthetic over exposure resulting in a
 auditory processing challenge, all software produced speech stimulates the
 dizzy centres of my brain.
 While I am thrilled for your solution, I fail to see how it applies to my
 question, or its place in this thread...unless you wish to claim all those
 who  may share a label are equally interchangeable for one another?



 On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Jude DaShiell wrote:

>   With a compatible device iphone/ipad or android and the be my eyes app
>   loaded on it it's possible to use the app and request assistance 
>   solving

>   the captchas if lios won't work and firefox has been modified so often
>   webvisum is no longer useable.
> 
>   On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> 
> >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:28:16

> >From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
> >To: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
> >    Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
> >Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:28:35 + (UTC)
> >Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> > 
> >As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and 
> >paypal

> >does
> >not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, 
> >doing

> >the
> >verification is not an option.
> >Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so 
> >the

> >answer   to my actual question?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > 
> > > Karen Lewellen wrote:

> > > > Hi,
> > > > working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks 
> > > > have a way

> > > > to change  the character set display?
> > > > No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one 
> > > > browser

> > > > now..all  others generate an image verification.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Karen
> > > 
> > > Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the 
> > > browser
> > > before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to 
> > > do the

> > > verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > |_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947

> > > |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
> > > |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>   -- 
> 
> 
> 






--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Curt,
actually your answer was both kind and perhaps a step in the solution 
direction ..I hope.
Will be more detailed when I answer someone else, but I am wondering if it 
is possible to change these settings or impact them short term say in 
options?
Lynx is my  solution standard so to speak.  If I could access paypal in 
lynx, the  show hidden links  option might address my issue.

Thoughts?
With appreciation, for the Noble giggle as well,
Kare



On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Curt wrote:


On 2017-12-13, Karen Lewellen  wrote:


As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal does
not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing the
verification is not an option.
Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the
answer   to my actual question?




"Elinks guesses the charset of the terminal from the environment
variables LANG, LC_CTYPE, and LC_ALL. ELinks 0.11 versions do not
support UTF-8 as this charset."

There are various charset options that can be set in 'elinks.conf',
notably:

terminal._template_.charset  (default: System)

Codepage of charset used for displaying content on terminal.
'System' stands for a codepage determined by a selected locale.

I hope this answers the actual question; if not, please be so kind as to
reformulate your question in order that it be congruent with my
answer (holiday spirit of congruity).

;-)

--
"The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics."
— Charles Bukowski

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 06:09:19PM +, Curt wrote:
> Or maybe the tacit rule is to always recapitulate the subject line in
> the body of the post.

I'd go with that one.

Many people don't read the subject lines at all, due to years of
conditioning on Usenet and mailing lists where the subject line stopped
being relevant after the first few responses, if it was ever relevant
in the first place.  These people just hit "next" and start reading
the next message, not looking at the headers at all, and then decide
whether to spend more than 1-2 seconds thinking about the message,
or just hit "next" again.

On the other hand, many people DO read subjects.  These people start
from the message index, seeing all the subjects only, and delete the
messages that don't have an interesting or useful subject, and then
possibly cherry pick from the remainder.

The subject also helps people who are skimming the mailing list archive,
trying to find an answer to their own, similar, question, or trying to
find a prior discussion that they vaguely remember.

So, you should put your full question with all relevant details in
the body, *and* you should have a concise but useful subject.

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Curt]

On 2017-12-13, davidson  wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, davidson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>
>> Hi Karen.
>>
>> I am not a user of elinks, so I can present no direct solution to your
>> problem here. Nonetheless, I have a comment or two, which I hope will
>> be understood in accordance with the constructive spirit in which I
>> offer them.
>>
>>> working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it,
>>
>> First comment: Is there prior context to this question? I see none on
>> this mailing list. Just FYI.
>
> Ah, I see the prior context now. Silly me. It's in your subject line,
> isn't it?
>

That escaped me too. Seems there is an unwritten rule to never put the
thematic crux of your article in the subject line (which contradicts the
written rule of always using a precise, meaningful subject line).

Or maybe the tacit rule is to always recapitulate the subject line in
the body of the post.

Or maybe I'm confabulating and there is no tacit rule at all (or maybe
it's written down somewhere--I'm not going to look anyway).


-- 
"The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics."
— Charles Bukowski

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[davidson]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, davidson wrote:


On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi,


Hi Karen.

I am not a user of elinks, so I can present no direct solution to your
problem here. Nonetheless, I have a comment or two, which I hope will
be understood in accordance with the constructive spirit in which I
offer them.


working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it,


First comment: Is there prior context to this question? I see none on
this mailing list. Just FYI.


Ah, I see the prior context now. Silly me. It's in your subject line,
isn't it?

You want to know, in the first place, whether elinks has a "show
hidden links" command like lynx does (ie, like lynx's 'A' and 'L'
commands, which map to ":ADDRLIST" and ":LIST"), because links you
expect to see on some page at paypal's website are not being rendered
by elinks.

Can you provide the URL for the offending page?

Or, if the page in question is a personalised page whose URL contains
personal information you don't wish to post, could you perhaps
describe how someone (with a paypal account) could view their own
version of that page? (That someone probably won't be me, btw, since I
have no paypal account and am likely unwilling to provide paypal with
whatever information is prerequisite to setting one up.)

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[David Wright]

On Tue 12 Dec 2017 at 21:36:53 (-0500), Karen Lewellen wrote:
…a Subject line.

Would puttingdocument.browse.links.numbering 1
into the configuration file help? Presumably it would either
reveal the link by numbering it or there would be a gap in the
numbering. I don't know of an equivalent command to Lynx's "l".

> […] come to think of it, does elinks have a
> way to change  the character set display?

It appears to follow your locale, so the only way I can think of
as a workaround is to set some consoles to different locales.
Fortunately in linux you can run multiple instances of the same
program handling the same files, so you could browse a single
document in multiple languages from multiple consoles.

It gets more complicated if the target of the browsers is, say,
a bank, and you're trying to carry out a transaction, but it
should work for just browsing.

I'm assuming elinks still doesn't handle Unicode well.

Cheers,
David.

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[davidson]

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Hi,


Hi Karen.

I am not a user of elinks, so I can present no direct solution to your
problem here. Nonetheless, I have a comment or two, which I hope will
be understood in accordance with the constructive spirit in which I
offer them.


working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it,


First comment: Is there prior context to this question? I see none on
this mailing list. Just FYI.


does elinks have a way to change the character set display?


Second comment: You have not, as far as I can tell, fully described
here the context that motivates you to seek to change the character
set. In other words, what is the specific problem you experience (on
paypal's website, I gather) that makes you want to change the
character set?

This skipping past the step of specifying the actual problem might be
an instance of the X-Y Problem, as described on Greg Wooledge's wiki
at http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem

Below is an excerpt of the discussion that can be found there:

| The X-Y Problem, as it is sometimes called, is a mental block which
| leads to enormous amounts of wasted time and energy, both on the
| part of people asking for help, and on the part of those providing
| help. It often goes something like this:
| 
|   * User wants to do X.

|   * User doesn't know how to do X, but thinks they can fumble their
| way to a solution if they can just manage to do Y.
|   * User doesn't know how to do Y either.
|   * User asks for help with Y.
|   * Others try to help user with Y, but are confused because Y seems
| like a strange problem to want to solve.

[Note: I, davidson, do not wish to suggest that wanting to change the
character set in elinks is a "strange problem". But your original post
appears to leave entirely to our imaginations the specific problem you
are experiencing with paypal's website when using elinks.]

|   * After much interaction and wasted time, it finally becomes clear
| that the user really wants help with X, and that Y wasn't even a
| suitable solution for X.
| 
| The problem occurs when people get their train of thought stuck on

| one approach and become unable to take a step back. Remaining open
| to having a new look at the bigger picture, these people might find
| their way back to X and continue searching for alternative
| solutions.


No idea if this will help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
now..all others generate an image verification.


That is appalling. Encountering such arbitrary design decisions
(willful breakage of accessibility, really) must be very frustrating.

I hope you find a remedy in this instance.

Good luck!

--

@wakandaho 10 Dec 2017

ppl on twitter who use a dense sociopolitical vocabulary even when
they aren't tweeting about an issue are annoying af. Sometimes they
can make a point using language everyone can understand but they
choose not to, which is linguistically inappropriate and a form of
exclusion

@wakandaho 10 Dec 2017 | @wakandaho

wish yall would get some basic knowledge on sociolinguistics and how
not only language but also language use can be a form of
exclusion. Yall sometimes use sociopolitical jargon a)
inappropriately, b)just to sound faux intellectual, c)with people whom
YOU KNOW don't understand

@gollygrahams 10 Dec 2017 | @wakandaho

not everyone can understand this . u should say: do not use long word.

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Jude DaShiell]

This disclosure of yours arrived after your original post and had it 
been included in your original post, I wouldn't have bothered answering 
your post at all.  No, I do not choose to think all people are 
interchangeable either.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:50:33
From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
To: Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com>
Cc: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 04:51:03 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

good for you, however, you are not me.
because of a condition tied to anesthetic over exposure resulting in a 
auditory processing challenge, all software produced speech stimulates the 
dizzy centres of my brain.
While I am thrilled for your solution, I fail to see how it applies to my 
question, or its place in this thread...unless you wish to claim all those 
who  may share a label are equally interchangeable for one another?




On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Jude DaShiell wrote:


 With a compatible device iphone/ipad or android and the be my eyes app
 loaded on it it's possible to use the app and request assistance solving
 the captchas if lios won't work and firefox has been modified so often
 webvisum is no longer useable.

 On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


  Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:28:16
  From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
  To: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
  Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
  Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
  Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:28:35 + (UTC)
  Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

  As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal
  does
  not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing
  the
  verification is not an option.
  Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the
  answer   to my actual question?



  On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Dan Purgert wrote:

>Karen Lewellen wrote:
> >Hi,
> >working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a 
> >way

> >to change  the character set display?
> >No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
> >now..all  others generate an image verification.
> >Thanks,
> >Karen
> 
>Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the browser
>before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to do 
>the

>verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.
> 
> 
>-- 
> |   _|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947

> |   _|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
> |   O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
> 
>





 -- 










--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Curt]

On 2017-12-13, Karen Lewellen  wrote:

> As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal does 
> not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing the 
> verification is not an option.
> Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the 
> answer   to my actual question?
>
>

 "Elinks guesses the charset of the terminal from the environment
 variables LANG, LC_CTYPE, and LC_ALL. ELinks 0.11 versions do not
 support UTF-8 as this charset."

There are various charset options that can be set in 'elinks.conf',
notably:

 terminal._template_.charset  (default: System)

 Codepage of charset used for displaying content on terminal.
 'System' stands for a codepage determined by a selected locale. 

I hope this answers the actual question; if not, please be so kind as to
reformulate your question in order that it be congruent with my
answer (holiday spirit of congruity).

;-)

-- 
"The world is full of shipping clerks who have read the Harvard Classics."
— Charles Bukowski

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

good for you, however, you are not me.
because of a condition tied to anesthetic over exposure resulting in a 
auditory processing challenge, all software produced speech stimulates the 
dizzy centres of my brain.
While I am thrilled for your solution, I fail to see how it applies to my 
question, or its place in this thread...unless you wish to claim all those 
who  may share a label are equally interchangeable for one another?




On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Jude DaShiell wrote:

With a compatible device iphone/ipad or android and the be my eyes app loaded 
on it it's possible to use the app and request assistance solving the 
captchas if lios won't work and firefox has been modified so often webvisum 
is no longer useable.


On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:28:16
 From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
 To: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
 Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:28:35 + (UTC)
 Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

 As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal does
 not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing the
 verification is not an option.
 Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the
 answer   to my actual question?



 On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Dan Purgert wrote:

>   Karen Lewellen wrote:
> >   Hi,
> >   working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a 
> >   way

> >   to change  the character set display?
> >   No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
> >   now..all  others generate an image verification.
> >   Thanks,
> >   Karen
> 
>   Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the browser

>   before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to do the
>   verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.
> 
> 
>   -- 
> |  _|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947

> |  _|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
> |  O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281
> 
> 





--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

I haven't the slightest idea, as I am not using  the program.
Frankly encouraging the use of  w3c suggested verification's, things like 
math problems, or using  a honeypot test instead of graphical ones at all

 is a better focus.
Especially since my elinks question, where I prefer focusing my attention, 
has not even been touched laughs.




On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Jude DaShiell wrote:


I'm curious, could lios be used to handle captchas?

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:53
 From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
 To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
 Subject: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
 Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:46:14 + (UTC)
 Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

 Hi,
 working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way to
 change  the character set display?
 No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
 now..all others generate an image verification.
 Thanks,
 Karen


 "No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
 skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
 hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
 love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
 opposite." Nelson Mandela.




--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Jude DaShiell]

With a compatible device iphone/ipad or android and the be my eyes app 
loaded on it it's possible to use the app and request assistance solving 
the captchas if lios won't work and firefox has been modified so often 
webvisum is no longer useable.


On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:28:16
From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
To: Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 03:28:35 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal does 
not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing the 
verification is not an option.
Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the 
answer   to my actual question?




On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Dan Purgert wrote:


 Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Hi,
 working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way
 to change  the character set display?
 No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
 now..all  others generate an image verification.
 Thanks,
 Karen


 Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the browser
 before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to do the
 verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.


 -- 
| _|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947

| _|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
| O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281







--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Jude DaShiell]

I'm curious, could lios be used to handle captchas?

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:53
From: Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: does elinks have a show hidden links option?
Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:46:14 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org

Hi,
working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way to 
change  the character set display?
No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser now..all 
others generate an image verification.

Thanks,
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
opposite." Nelson Mandela.




--

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

As I experience blindness meaning I cannot read the image, and paypal does 
not provide  as I experience things  inclusive ways around this, doing the 
verification is not an option.
Oddly enough I have used the browser before, many times in fact...so the 
answer   to my actual question?




On Wed, 13 Dec 2017, Dan Purgert wrote:


Karen Lewellen wrote:

Hi,
working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way
to change  the character set display?
No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser
now..all  others generate an image verification.
Thanks,
Karen


Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the browser
before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to do the
verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.


--
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Dan Purgert]

Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Hi,
> working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way 
> to change  the character set display?
> No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser 
> now..all  others generate an image verification.
> Thanks,
> Karen

Sounds like your cookies have expired (or you've not used the browser
before, or you've cleaned the cache, etc.).  Should just need to do the
verification, and tell paypal to remember you again.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

does elinks have a show hidden links option?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi,
working with PayPal e-mail  come to think of it, does elinks have a way 
to change  the character set display?
No idea if this will  help, but paypal only lets me use one browser 
now..all  others generate an image verification.

Thanks,
Karen


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his
skin or his background or his religion ... People must learn to
hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to
love... For love comes more naturally to the human heart than its
opposite." Nelson Mandela.