Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
Quoting Ric Moore (wayward4...@gmail.com): On 08/26/2015 08:03 PM, David Wright wrote: Quoting Ric Moore (wayward4...@gmail.com): not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. ↑↑↑ \ \ \ \ \ \ I want those people to be here for at least two reasons: Define those people. Testing and Un-stable isn't for Joe or Jane Lunchbucket and never has been. :) Ric Cheers, David.
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On Thursday 27 August 2015 09:52:58 Hans wrote: So, please apologize if I seem to annoying. Hans - your Debianese is spot on so far as I can see. Where problems may arise is, I suspect, when people misunderstand what you are saying. I had to do a double take at this. ;-) Lisi
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
Am Donnerstag, 27. August 2015, 01:39:32 schrieb Ric Moore: On 08/26/2015 08:03 PM, David Wright wrote: Quoting Ric Moore (wayward4...@gmail.com): not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. I want those people to be here for at least two reasons: Define those people. Testing and Un-stable isn't for Joe or Jane Lunchbucket and never has been. :) Ric Hi guys, please, I do not want to start any flamewars. If this list is only for stable users, then please point me to a better one. IMO people and also developers should know, if something is notworking as wanted. These might be caused by two options: 1. I am doing something wrong, misconfigure something or did not understand some things. Then, if I know that, I can change it, and I can learn it. 2. The system is wrong, there is a bug or something around the system has changed (i.e. a protocol has changed). Then all people should know this. Personally I am running debian/testing on some different machines, 32-bit and 64-bit-multiarch. As Im mostly updating all machines daily, I am very fast aware, if something is changing and not working correct. If so, first I take a look, if I did something wrong, read the manual and the changelogs. Also inspecting google, if this problem already occured somewhere else, maybe in another distribution. At last, when I find no solution, I am asking my last ressort: Developers and users, who know more than me. If you think, this is the wrong way, feel free to point me to a better way. If you think, I am asking to often, then it is caused by my often updates. So, please apologize if I seem to annoying. Happy hacking! Hans
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On 08/26/2015 11:26 AM, Hans wrote: If you think the way it is testing or unstable, who cares..., then the result will be a bad stable. Is it that what you want? Don't think so. What you do is google your butt off, first, to resolve the problem on your own if you walk on the wild side. Problems with testing and unstable are then reported via bug-report to the devels/maintainers of the borken package(s). They are the people who will release a package(s) as stable later. Debian-users is mainly for Debian stable users, not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. Debian has never had a bad stable, ever, since stable is not un-stable. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On 08/25/2015 06:33 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: Not to seem rude or demeaning in any way, but that is pretty much an axiom. Debian has made public notice in their documentation many times that no one should expect reliable behaviour from any version other than Debian Stable. Unfortunately, in the past, there have been many posts suggesting testing or sid as a way of getting later software. I suppose this is the result. That is the best advice the OP could get. If testing breaks, you get to keep both pieces if you cannot fix it or live with it. Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
Quoting Ric Moore (wayward4...@gmail.com): On 08/26/2015 11:26 AM, Hans wrote: If you think the way it is testing or unstable, who cares..., then the result will be a bad stable. Is it that what you want? Don't think so. What you do is google your butt off, first, to resolve the problem on your own if you walk on the wild side. There's a step missing here. In the spirit of Debian, you share the problem (and the solution or workaround if you find it) on this list. What's the point of trying to make everyone struggle independently; we're not taking an exam. Problems with testing and unstable are then reported via bug-report to the devels/maintainers of the borken package(s). But if people on this list demonstrate that it's not a bug but a user's mistake/hardware failure/whatever, an unnecessary bug report may be avoided. They are the people who will release a package(s) as stable later. Debian-users is mainly for Debian stable users, No, that would be debian-stable-users. not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. I want those people to be here for at least two reasons: they're generally more expert and give better advice, often the only advice, on obscure problems; and they discuss upcoming features/ changes so that you can prepare for the next distribution upgrade. Debian has never had a bad stable, ever, since stable is not un-stable. :) Ric Cheers, David.
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 01:23:25PM -0400, Ric Moore wrote: On 08/26/2015 11:26 AM, Hans wrote: If you think the way it is testing or unstable, who cares..., then the result will be a bad stable. Is it that what you want? Don't think so. What you do is google your butt off, first, to resolve the problem on your own if you walk on the wild side. Problems with testing and unstable are then reported via bug-report to the devels/maintainers of the borken package(s). They are the people who will release a package(s) as stable later. Debian-users is mainly for Debian stable users, not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. Debian has never had a bad stable, ever, since stable is not un-stable. :) Ric It's fine to ask for support regarding testing or unstable, but the OP should know the risks, and if there is a transition going on then the OP should be aware of this. If the OP shows that they have done as much as they can diagnosing the problem, then sure ask here and someone may have some helpful advice. But I agree, the majority of problems can be fixed via a google or a nosy through the bug reports, quite often there is a work around explained in the bug report, and can be applied until an updated package gets uploaded and eventually end up in the repositories. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On 08/26/2015 08:03 PM, David Wright wrote: Quoting Ric Moore (wayward4...@gmail.com): not those of us who ~willingly~ subject ourselves to breakages. I want those people to be here for at least two reasons: Define those people. Testing and Un-stable isn't for Joe or Jane Lunchbucket and never has been. :) Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
That is the best advice the OP could get. If testing breaks, you get to keep both pieces if you cannot fix it or live with it. Ric Yes, of course I know this. This is not a sharp productive system, but a system, where I dare to check new things. One of it is KDE, and I think it important, to tell the folks, when things do not work properly. Or will you wait until it is in stable? If you think the way it is testing or unstable, who cares..., then the result will be a bad stable. Is it that what you want? Don't think so. Hans
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 05:20:27PM -0500, T. J. Duchene wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:59:13 +0200 Hans hans.ullr...@loop.de wrote: Yes, I admit, we are at the moment in an unlucky situation, and I admit, I have no solution for it. For the users I only can give the advice: Do not update your running system, when you are running debian/stable. If you are running debian/stable - leave it that way! Hi Hans! You should not be using Testing or Unstable if you are not prepared to deal with bugs that can possibly break your system. Not to seem rude or demeaning in any way, but that is pretty much an axiom. Debian has made public notice in their documentation many times that no one should expect reliable behaviour from any version other than Debian Stable. Unfortunately, in the past, there have been many posts suggesting testing or sid as a way of getting later software. I suppose this is the result. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:59:13 +0200 Hans hans.ullr...@loop.de wrote: Yes, I admit, we are at the moment in an unlucky situation, and I admit, I have no solution for it. For the users I only can give the advice: Do not update your running system, when you are running debian/stable. If you are running debian/stable - leave it that way! Hi Hans! You should not be using Testing or Unstable if you are not prepared to deal with bugs that can possibly break your system. Not to seem rude or demeaning in any way, but that is pretty much an axiom. Debian has made public notice in their documentation many times that no one should expect reliable behaviour from any version other than Debian Stable. Like all of Testing, the version of KDE in Testing is updated via complete automation. It is not patched for security and other possible problems in a timely basis when it is not in a frozen state prior to the next release. You can read more here: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting Take care T.J.
kde5 - the problems do not stop
Hello list, upgrading in debian/testing let me install kde5. Although I got some problems at the beginning, I managed to get it working. However, some minor problems still occured, for example sddm will not start and the process konsole will not end, although I closed konsole. But these are minor problems, as I can change to kdm or lxdm, and for konsole I can kill the process manually. But now, after my last update, KDE will not start. The splashscreen of KDE5 is starting, its progress bar fullfilles to the end and then it hangs. I reverted the last libs and packages (of the last update, where it was working), but got no success. Additionally I moved ~/.kde from my home- directory, with the same result. IMO it could be caused by the mix of kde4 and kde5 libs and packages. Of course, I could revert to debian/stable or maybe to debian/unstable, but both solutions brings a lot other disadvantages. I do not believe the users could do much, as it is a problem with the packages and their versions. IMO it would help, if all KDE5 dependencies would be available in debian/testing, not only in debian/unstable. To remove all kde4 packages is no good idea, as it will affect a lot of other kde applications, which the user might not want to deinstall. Yes, I admit, we are at the moment in an unlucky situation, and I admit, I have no solution for it. For the users I only can give the advice: Do not update your running system, when you are running debian/stable. If you are running debian/stable - leave it that way! Debian/stable is running fine, no problems here. Maybe someone has more ideas and maybe someone has an idea, why KDE5 is no starting no more. Would be appreciated! Hope, this helps a little bit. Best regards Hans
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
But now, after my last update, KDE will not start. The splashscreen of KDE5 is starting, its progress bar fullfilles to the end and then it hangs. I had the same issue and fixed it by reverting libkdecorations2-5 and libkdecorations2private5 to 5.3.2-1 as indicated in [1]. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794581#117 -- Gabriel
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:19:28 +0200 Hans hans.ullr...@loop.de wrote: Hello Hans, Something with archive.debian.org or similar snapshot.debian.org, IIRC. -- Regards _ / ) The blindingly obvious is / _)radnever immediately apparent Bet you thought you had it all worked out Problem - Sex Pistols pgpTZbeSnHZXR.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
Am Donnerstag, 20. August 2015, 12:03:43 schrieb Gabriel Corona: But now, after my last update, KDE will not start. The splashscreen of KDE5 is starting, its progress bar fullfilles to the end and then it hangs. I had the same issue and fixed it by reverting libkdecorations2-5 and libkdecorations2private5 to 5.3.2-1 as indicated in [1]. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794581#117 Oh, that is interesting. This is exactly, what I wanted to do. But the former version was no more in the repo. Just disappeared! I know, there is a repo, that helds all packages removed from the repo, but fogot the URL. Something with archive.debian.org or similar. Or did you get them some elsewhere? Best Hans
Re: kde5 - the problems do not stop
I know, there is a repo, that helds all packages removed from the repo, but fogot the URL. Something with archive.debian.org or similar. Or did you get them some elsewhere? I installed them from my cache: cd /var/cache/apt/archives sudo dpkg -i libkdecorations2-5_4%3a5.3.2-1_amd64.deb \ libkdecorations2private5_4%3a5.3.2-1_amd64.deb -- Gabriel
