Re: Email client programs
Craig Dickson wrote: ... If good IMAP support was common in mail clients, I'd probably be more inclined to explore it, but in my experience many clients either don't support IMAP, or the support is limited and/or buggy. it's getting better, IMO it's a lot simler than file storage support (mbox, maildir) because you don't have to worry about file locking (which never really works) and similar issues (file corruption when error occurs during moment file is in bad state for an error to occur:-) in netscape the IMAP folders have basically same functionality as native folders (even more, depending on IMAP server), in mutt it looks similar (almost as good as native folders (maybe even the same, I am not sure)), the other ones I haven't tried for few month, evolution certainly looked good, mozilla is somewhat better netscape (good IMAP support, IIRC)... and no, I am not paid by IMAP lobby, I am just extatic about how it works (together with fetchmail, postfix and cyrus sieve and deliver). all fairly simple programs, each focused on one thing, forming extremely flexible system... erik
Re: I want to ask a question
Ivan Kirov wrote: what is the command for uploading site in Linux Debian server, because it's not the same like in the Red Hat Linux. what do you mean by 'uploading site'? perhaps you could say which command you sued on redhat system... erik
Re: Fonts' strategy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which fonts should I install and why would I install xfs ? font server is useful if you want to provide fonts for more than one X server, otherwise you don't have a reason to run it (AFAIK) how can I use fonts from Windows ? apt-get install msttcorefonts if you have more true type fonts you need to have them accessible from linux, add a font path in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 and run mkfontdir for that directory (actually it's mkttfdir for true type fonts, there's also alternate utility with very similar name), not sure if latest mkfontdir supports true type fonts... that's assuming you are using X 4.x which has support for true type fonts, for older X 3.x you'd have to use separate font server (there are few available, not sure which is better) erik
Re: Threading Mail
csj wrote: On Saturday 29 December 2001 03:58, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach csj [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2001.12.28.0807 +0100]: From the powershell package description: PowerShell is a GNOME/Gtk+ based terminal emulator which supports many terminals in a single window (limited only by available RAM). Each terminal is given a notebook tab which makes switching between terminals easy. if powershell or KDE could (maybe now they can, not last time i checked) be spawned such that you'd have, say, four tabs with four command lines executed therein, it would be worth the consideration... i find the tabs rather confusing. but then again, my desktop is simply four xterms (10 desktops thereof), and i usually don't need more... I suppose you're talking about programs that require user interaction (foreground processes). Aside from the hassle of manually opening 10 different tabs, can you cite an instance where having ten instant shell sessions is actually useful? he says 10 desktops, not tabs. usually I open quite a few xterms as well, e.g. one for running program (and do msic interactive stuff), few for editing sources (those might be gvim windows instead), one for watching output from the program (tail -f logfile), one or two for manpages or other docs etc... and of course, the same thing often happens on multiple desktops (main program, one or two small programs to try something out etc.) erik
Re: Threading Mail
csj wrote: On Saturday 29 December 2001 06:55, Erik Steffl wrote: i find the tabs rather confusing. but then again, my desktop is simply four xterms (10 desktops thereof), and i usually don't need more... I suppose you're talking about programs that require user interaction (foreground processes). Aside from the hassle of manually opening 10 different tabs, can you cite an instance where having ten instant shell sessions is actually useful? he says 10 desktops, not tabs. That's the detail I decided to pass over. 10 desktops seems indecent. I can't see what applications you would run in 10 desktops that can't be done in 2 desktops and 10 (powershell/konsole) tabs. Personally I want the CLI stuff to go with other CLI stuff and the X stuff with other X stuff. of course, it COULD be also done in one desktop. some people don't like tabs that much, e.g. me (for xterm -like programs, for some other programs they make perfect sense). I use about 3 - 4 desktops on my home machine and about 4 - 7 on my work machine (on average). Usually I keep related apps on one desktop, so that I can see relevant things at one time. When you use tabs you cannot see any two (or more) of those at one time. the other problem is that when you use tabs you cannot use window manger level menus and keyboard shortcuts to switch between them (i.e. if you have ten xterms you can switch between any of them using WM's methods, but if you have two xterms with 5 tabs each you cannot switch between any shell prompt using WM, you have two methods to switch between shell prompts that you have to combine). I don't really make much fuss about whether it's GUI or CLI program, I keep together programs that are related based on task that I use them to acomplish (e.g. I might have version control system GUI, few gvim windows and few xterms that I want to keep together because they are all related to one task... I don't see a reason to group unrelated xterms together... but that's just me with my particular task that I use computer for. you might use different methods to acomplish similar or entirely different tasks... what I'm trying to say is that his 'desktops' and your 'tabs' are not technical details but suggest quite different way of working with system... you don't see much value in his (or mine) destops just like he doesn't see much value in the tabs... (not to say that one way of working with system is better then another, it probably depends on personal preference and the kind of tasks you tend to use computer for). erik
Re: Kernels - The Debian Way
Keith O'Connell wrote: Hi, As I wander about sites, I periodically see references to a document in ascii/html/pdf format with a title along the lines of Kernels - The Debian Way, but I cannot seem to find it, and I think I would like to read it. If it exists could someone give me the url for it please? not sure about the document of that name but get make-kpkg package and read its docs. erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Sunday, December 30, Dimitri Maziuk did write: * William T Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly: ... So... why *should* the programmer concern himself with individual bytes of memory? (Assuming he is writing an ordinary application and not a hardware driver or something similar). Because if he does not, his application will segfault and dump core. No. This level of concern is necessary only for non-type-safe languages. It is provably impossible for a program written in a type-safe language to segfault (assuming that the language's run-time system is implemented correctly, of course). ??? it's the resource allocation that's important, not types. garbage collectors are generally more robust as far as segfaulting (and similar errors) go (of course, just because the program doesn't segfault it doen't mean it's working correctly). the other important factor is how much runtime check language does (e.g. checking for array boundaries etc.) and as far as runtime system goes - only interpreted languages have runtime systems. erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Eric G. Miller wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:46:15 -0800, Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Sunday, December 30, Dimitri Maziuk did write: * William T Wilson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) spake thusly: ... So... why *should* the programmer concern himself with individual bytes of memory? (Assuming he is writing an ordinary application and not a hardware driver or something similar). Because if he does not, his application will segfault and dump core. No. This level of concern is necessary only for non-type-safe languages. It is provably impossible for a program written in a type-safe language to segfault (assuming that the language's run-time system is implemented correctly, of course). ??? it's the resource allocation that's important, not types. garbage collectors are generally more robust as far as segfaulting (and similar errors) go (of course, just because the program doesn't segfault it doen't mean it's working correctly). the other important factor is how much runtime check language does (e.g. checking for array boundaries etc.) But it's the type safety of the language that prevents the abuse of memory, not how it was allocated. Strong typing eliminates a huge number of error cases. C and C++ both subvert the ability of the compiler to do static type checking via casts and void pointers. Strong static type checking also has the possible advantage that the compiler can better optimize the generated code. consider perl which doesn't have strong types but it's quite impossible to make it segfault and C++ on the other side which is fairly dangerous even without casting (I would even go as far as saying that casting makes no difference (statistally), but I'd have to think about it). most of the segfaults are because of the resource allocation mistakes, not because of mistaken types... at last that's my impression. note that in c++ there's basically no need for casting and using void pointers (in general, there are special cases). That's of course, if you are willing to use templates (or, alternatively, multiple inheritance, in some cases). also note that in java you have to cast (when getting items from containers) but it doesn't make java programs more likely to segfault. and as far as runtime system goes - only interpreted languages have runtime systems. Well, I dare you to remove 'ld' or 'libc.so' and see how many programs run ;-) I think it's fair to characterize required language libraries as part of the run time system. Whether or not a program is statically compiled is unimportant, as the language library still performs actions at runtime that your program depends on, and which your program could not function without. Among those things, might be checking array accesses and raising exceptions for range errors... IMO the important distinction is whether the program runs itself (compiled programs) or whether it is run by other program, which controls it and takes care of various runtime checks etc. you do not necessarily need ld and standard libraries for c or c++ program, however you need vm for java program. or, in other words - runtime for compiled program is HW, runtime for interpreted program is SW (HW usually provides generic, basic low-level functionality, SW usually does provide higher level functionality, specific for given language). so IMO the 'runtime' for compiled languages (c, c++ etc.) is a lot different from what 'runtime' means when talking about interpreted languages (java, perl, VB) erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Monday, December 31, Erik Steffl did write: Eric G. Miller wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:46:15 -0800, Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... it's the resource allocation that's important, not types. garbage collectors are generally more robust as far as segfaulting (and similar errors) go (of course, just because the program doesn't segfault it doen't mean it's working correctly). the other important factor is how much runtime check language does (e.g. checking for array boundaries etc.) But it's the type safety of the language that prevents the abuse of memory, not how it was allocated. Strong typing eliminates a huge number of error cases. C and C++ both subvert the ability of the compiler to do static type checking via casts and void pointers. Strong static type checking also has the possible advantage that the compiler can better optimize the generated code. consider perl which doesn't have strong types but it's quite impossible to make it segfault and C++ on the other side which is fairly dangerous even without casting (I would even go as far as saying that casting makes no difference (statistally), but I'd have to think about it). Perl does have strong types, but they don't really correspond to the types that most people are used to thinking of. Perl's types are * scalars (no real distinction between strings, numbers, and the undefined value) * lists * hashes * filehandles (I haven't really used Perl since Perl 4, so this list may not be complete.) actually there is real distinction between string and number, it's just that it's internal only (perl stores numbers and strings differently, it also treats them differently). it also has references and it knows what kind of references they are (and since references are used to implement objects it even knows the type of reference (what it was blessed into, plus whether it's scalar, array, hash). the point was that it's not a strong type system - by which I mean that you can assign pretty much any value to any l-value, no questions asked. You don't get segfault but you still get non-working program (e.g. when you mistakenly assing array to scalar, you get size of array in scalar). the reason you don't get segfaults is that perl takes care of memory allocation, e.g. if you try to assign something to the variable that's undefined (no storage place yet), it allocates appropriate amount of memory or if you try to read a value of variable that doesn't have value it says that undefined variable was used (doesn't give you random piece of memory like you can get in c). most of the segfaults are because of the resource allocation mistakes, not because of mistaken types... at last that's my impression. Resource allocation mistakes (at least, the kind that typically lead to seg faults) *are* type errors, from a certain point of view. when you stretch it far enough. generally there are two distinct problems: 1. resource allocation error: you use resource after it was freed you use resouce that was never allocated e.g. char *string; strcpy(should segfault, string); 2. wrong type used: char c; int *i = (int*)(c); *i = 12345; /* BOOM! */ the first case COULD be described as type problem as well, if you say that the compiler should check what the string actually points to but it's not really the basic problem. just like the second problem can be described as allocation problem (not enough space allocated for value of i) but it would miss the point... Consider the following: char *a, *b; a = strdup(This is a sample string); b = a; free(a); /* Much code follows here, none of which modifies b. */ printf(%s\n, b); This may or may not segfault, but it's obviously not correct. The problem is, in fact, a type error in the reference to b in the printf() call. The compiler and library think that b is a pointer to a null-terminated character string, but this is in fact not the case. In a type-safe language, you would not be allowed to bring about this state of affairs. IMO it's good to have clear distinction between resource allocation and type safety. example of perl - it doesn't have type safety, it lets you assing (almost) anything to anything but you still don't get problems as you describe above because it handles the memory allocation automatically. also note that in java you have to cast (when getting items from containers) but it doesn't make java programs more likely to segfault. That's because Java's typecasts are safe (i.e., checked at run-time): they're equivalent to C++'s dynamic_cast, not static_cast. (Casting a float to an int, of course, is equivalent to C++'s static_cast, but errors with those sorts of casts are not likely to cause memory problems.) and as far as runtime system goes - only interpreted
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
William T Wilson wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2001, Erik Steffl wrote: consider perl which doesn't have strong types but it's quite impossible to make it segfault and C++ on the other side which is That is true but it doesn't mean that type safety won't prevent it also. Consider a hypothetical language that doesn't have any dynamic resource allocation at all and has a very weak type system. Actually a shell scripting language is not very far from this. It can never segfault although it is still possible to have the same sort of bugs which cause segfaults. are you trying to say same thing I said or are you saying the opposite? fairly dangerous even without casting (I would even go as far as saying that casting makes no difference (statistally), but I'd have to think about it). The presence of casting doesn't have too much of an impact on the reliability of a particular program (if anything it improves it because it means the programmer thought about what his data really meant) but a language that doesn't keep track of the type of its data on the programmer's behalf cannot detect many errors at compile-time. wrong cast can lead to segfault, even if you'd use GC. well, see perl. doesn't care about your types and still doesn't segfault. It can make sure that the programmer doesn't try to access a field that isn't present in the type of data that the pointer is supposed to represent, but it can't make sure that the pointer actually points to that sort of data. The ability to check that the pointer points to the right type of data catches both a huge number of nuisance bugs *and* detects many types of segfaulting bugs even at compile time (and provides useful error descriptions even if it slips through to runtime). providing you have pointers. again, compare perl and c++ - c++ has fairly strong (not really strong) types and yet you can make it segfault easily. perl doesn't care about types much but it doesn't segfault (of course, it has to keep track of types internally but that's mostly hidden from progammer). Programmers that haven't used a really strongly typed language may not even even realize that the compiler is able to catch these sorts of bugs. perhaps... most of the segfaults are because of the resource allocation mistakes, not because of mistaken types... at last that's my impression. In a lot of ways they are the same thing. Suppose you have a pointer to an integer, and you change it so it points to a dynamically allocated array of pointers to integers (i.e. a 2-dimensional array) - which is perfectly legal in C - and then you free() the pointer. Is this a resource allocation mistake or a type mistake? It's really a resource allocation mistake, but it's also a type mistake, and it's something that a compiler in a strongly typed language would catch. a man was very poor. hungry all the time. finally got to hospital emergency room with severe case of malnutrition. you can say it's both economic problem and nutrion problem, but I guess you would admit that economics and nutrition are separate disciplines and that generally problems can be solved as economic problems or nutrition problems... don't mix the two. it just spoils the whole picture. the type problem and the resource allocation problem are two separate problems, each can be solved by different means. note that in c++ there's basically no need for casting and using void pointers (in general, there are special cases). That's of course, Casting you can't really get away from nor do you really need to. In fact the more strongly typed the language is, the more casting you have to do. (void) pointers on the other hand are generally not your friend :} why wouldn't you get away from casting? requiring casting is usually a design problem (in java it's language design problem, but it's getting templates soon:-) you might require casts in c for certain tasks... erik
soundcard not detected (after moving of NIC)
I get the error from alsa that soundcard is not detected, it worked fine before I moved NIC to another PCI slot. I have ABIT VH6-II motherboard. here's the HW side (1 isa slot, 4 pci slots altogether): ISA 1 soundblaster awe 64 irq 5 PCI 1 voodoo 3irq 9 PCI 2 NIC RTL8139 irq 10 (or 11) PCI 3 NIC RTL8139 irq 11 (or 10) PCI 4 empty so it doesn't look like PCI sharing problem, I check BIOS boot screen, no conflicts with irq 5 the soundcard DOES work in windows. the second NIC used to be in PCI slot 4 on irq 9 (shared with USB) dmesg soundcard related messages: isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... isapnp: Calling quirk for 01:00 isapnp: SB audio device quirk - increasing port range isapnp: Calling quirk for 01:02 isapnp: AWE32 quirk - adding two ports isapnp: Card 'Creative SB AWE64 PnP' isapnp: 1 Plug Play card detected total (that's alsa isapnp that used to work before, I didn't change any settings) syslog message when I run /etc/init.d. alsa start: Jan 2 15:57:48 localhost kernel: ALSA card-sb16.c:606: Sound Blaster 16 soundcard not found or device busy Jan 2 15:57:48 localhost kernel: ALSA card-sb16.c:608: In case, if you have non-AWE card, try snd-card-sb16 module jojda:/home/erik# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0:4265524 XT-PIC timer 1: 6 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10: 2926 XT-PIC eth1 11: 18480 XT-PIC eth0 12: 26 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 240251 XT-PIC ide0 NMI: 0 LOC:4265306 ERR: 0 the card is recognized by isapnp (and by pnpdump) - do I need to fine tune it? Since I have BIOS set to 'OS doesn't support PnP' I guess the isapnp might try to set up the card and not succeed... any ideas? TIA! erik
Re: 2 network cards; one not recognized
Petre Daniel wrote: yeah,like all new releases of mandrake,redhat autoconfigure 2 network cards,but with our beautiful debian we gotta work it out,and feel the taste of manual settings and confugiration.. perrsonally,i like this way best.. call me old fashion,i'll call you clickpointers :))) I didn't have to do anything extra, just add the aliases (you see a bit of my network history there as well:-) jojda:/home/erik# cat /etc/modutils/erik.eth # erik: this is a local file to take care of # modules for network card (from linksys webpage) # not using tulip anymore (linksys LNE100TX) # alias eth0tulip # rtl8139 driver from scyld, for d-link # alias eth0rtl8139 # rtl8139 driver from kernel (two cards) alias eth08139too alias eth18139too # force 10 Mbs half duplex # options tulip options=9 # EOF erik At 12:03 PM 1/2/02, Michael P. Soulier wrote: On 02/01/02 Petre Daniel did speaketh: i think there is an option in lilo.conf ,something with append= ... to make your system look for the second eth at boot time. check the www.linuxdocs.org for the boot parameters good luck. Strange. That's not required on my router using Linksys cards and the tulip driver. tulip.c:v0.92 4/17/2000 Written by Donald Becker [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.scyld.com/network/tulip.html eth0: ADMtek Comet rev 17 at 0xc181fc00, 00:20:78:0E:F8:F4, IRQ 11. eth1: ADMtek Comet rev 17 at 0xc1821800, 00:20:78:1F:32:55, IRQ 10. It just detects both at boot time automagickally. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier [EMAIL PROTECTED], GnuPG pub key: 5BC8BE08 ...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount of nerd-like effort. -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix Petre L. Daniel,System Administrator Canad Systems Pitesti Romania, http://www.cyber.ro, email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:+4048220044, +4048206200 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
soundcard not detected (after moving of NIC)
I get the error from alsa that soundcard is not detected, it worked fine before I moved NIC to another PCI slot. I have ABIT VH6-II motherboard. here's the HW side (1 isa slot, 4 pci slots altogether): ISA 1 soundblaster awe 64 irq 5 PCI 1 voodoo 3irq 9 PCI 2 NIC RTL8139 irq 10 (or 11) PCI 3 NIC RTL8139 irq 11 (or 10) PCI 4 empty so it doesn't look like IRQ sharing problem, I check BIOS boot screen, no conflicts with irq 5 the soundcard DOES work in windows. the second NIC used to be in PCI slot 4 on irq 9 (shared with USB) dmesg soundcard related messages: isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... isapnp: Calling quirk for 01:00 isapnp: SB audio device quirk - increasing port range isapnp: Calling quirk for 01:02 isapnp: AWE32 quirk - adding two ports isapnp: Card 'Creative SB AWE64 PnP' isapnp: 1 Plug Play card detected total (that's alsa isapnp that used to work before, I didn't change any settings) syslog message when I run /etc/init.d. alsa start: Jan 2 15:57:48 localhost kernel: ALSA card-sb16.c:606: Sound Blaster 16 soundcard not found or device busy Jan 2 15:57:48 localhost kernel: ALSA card-sb16.c:608: In case, if you have non-AWE card, try snd-card-sb16 module jojda:/home/erik# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0:4265524 XT-PIC timer 1: 6 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10: 2926 XT-PIC eth1 11: 18480 XT-PIC eth0 12: 26 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 240251 XT-PIC ide0 NMI: 0 LOC:4265306 ERR: 0 the card is recognized by isapnp (and by pnpdump) - do I need to fine tune it? Since I have BIOS set to 'OS doesn't support PnP' I guess the isapnp might try to set up the card and not succeed... any ideas? TIA! erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Wednesday, January 2, Erik Steffl did write: Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Monday, December 31, Erik Steffl did write: Perl does have strong types, but they don't really correspond to the types that most people are used to thinking of. Perl's types are * scalars (no real distinction between strings, numbers, and the undefined value) * lists * hashes * filehandles (I haven't really used Perl since Perl 4, so this list may not be complete.) actually there is real distinction between string and number, it's just that it's internal only (perl stores numbers and strings differently, it also treats them differently). Since Perl automatically converts between strings and numbers whenever it feels like it, there's really no important distinction between the ??? what's the difference? the point is you can assign almost anything to anything, and yet there is no segfault - i.e. the strength of types has nothing (sort of) to do with segfaults... the resource allocation is crucial... two from the programmer's perspective. (In other words: since you can't tell if a Perl scalar contains the number 33 or the string '33', there's no practical difference between the types.) Implementation details are really pretty irrelevant at the level at which I'm discussing the language. well, mostly... the point was that it's not a strong type system - by which I mean that you can assign pretty much any value to any l-value, no questions asked. You don't get segfault but you still get non-working program (e.g. when you mistakenly assing array to scalar, you get size of array in scalar). Oh, right. I'd forgotten about the whole scalar/array context thing. (You can tell that I don't use Perl that often, yes?) Since, however, the following two statements aren't inverses $bar = @foo; @foo = $bar; (the latter sets @foo's length, does it not?) I'd be tempted to explain the list-to-scalar conversion in terms of an implicit conversion, much like those performed by C++ in the presence of, say, single-argument constructors. Even if that doesn't work, though, then you can take the LISP tactic, and just consider everything to be the same (static) type: ThePerlDataType. This type has several variants for scalars, lists, references, and so forth. that's all interesting, but the point was that the perl type system is as weak as I can imagine yet it doesn't lead to segfaults... it's the resource allocation! the reason you don't get segfaults is that perl takes care of memory allocation, e.g. if you try to assign something to the variable that's undefined (no storage place yet), it allocates appropriate amount of memory or if you try to read a value of variable that doesn't have value it says that undefined variable was used (doesn't give you random piece of memory like you can get in c). most of the segfaults are because of the resource allocation mistakes, not because of mistaken types... at last that's my impression. Resource allocation mistakes (at least, the kind that typically lead to seg faults) *are* type errors, from a certain point of view. when you stretch it far enough. It's not a stretch at all; it simply requires thinking about types in a way not very common among C/C++/Java programmers. generally there are two distinct problems: [resource allocation errors and type errors] I'll agree that the two are related; in fact, I'd go so far as to say that if a language supports dynamic memory allocation and type-safety, it *has* to have some sort of automatic storage management system. Otherwise, you can delete objects too early and cause problems. My original point, though, was that early deletions like this actually short-circuit the type system, since they break the type-safety invariant. that's true, to certain extend. IMO it's good to have clear distinction between resource allocation and type safety. example of perl - it doesn't have type safety, it lets you assing (almost) anything to anything but you still don't get problems as you describe above because it handles the memory allocation automatically. Perl's a little weird, I'll grant you, but the fact that you can do this sort of `free assignment' doesn't preclude typesafety. Ferinstance, in Scheme, I can do this without any problems: (define x 3);; variable definition declaration (set! x three);; variable assignment Works just fine. Of course, if I then try to add x to 4 after the set!, I'll get a run-time error---thus type-safety. in this case yes, in other cases, no. I can't speak of lisp but in perl it's definitely not what I would call type safety. it makes sure that proper amount of memory is allocated but it doesn't care about types much. if you cannot make sure that MyUserType variable will only
Re: external monitor and X
Jerome BENOIT wrote: Bonjour, we can login to an external computer and run X stuff from there, can we do the reverse ? I mean, can we open an X session on an external screen (via internet connction) ? yes, you can run an X application anywhere you want and display it anywhere you want (as long as there is netwrok connection and you have rights run application on given computer and display it on given X server). run: that's no different than running any other application, you can e.g. ssh into a machine and run the application, e.g. xterm display: specify display suing either setting of the DISPLAY environmental variable: export DISPLAY=machine:n.m# sh and derivatives setenv DISPLAY machine:n.m# csh and derivatives xterm or use command line option (not all programs support this): xterm -display machine:n.m where machine is address of the machine (name or numeric IP) n is display number (usually 0 if only one X server is running) m is screen number (usually 0, can be omitted) to set be able to display on the given X server you can use various methods: NOT GOOD! INSECURE! (good for testing only, standalone (non-networked) machine): xhost +whereFrom whereFrom is the address of the machine where you run the program, see man xhost better: xauth merge .Xauthority where xauth is run on machine where you run application but .Xauthority is .Xauthority file from home directory of the user that owns the X server another option is to use ssh port forwarding. erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Richard Cobbe wrote: Lo, on Thursday, January 3, William T Wilson did write: On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Richard Cobbe wrote: I'll agree that the two are related; in fact, I'd go so far as to say that if a language supports dynamic memory allocation and type-safety, it *has* to have some sort of automatic storage management system. I don't think that necessarily follows; a manual mechanism for freeing resources would then just set the reference to a NULL value. Not in the general case, no. std::string *s = new string(foo); std::string *s2 = s; delete s; If we assume a variant of C++ that extends delete to set its argument pointer to NULL, you still have the problem of s2 hanging around. In the general case, it's not so obvious that you've got two pointers to reset. unless, of course, you also keep track of who points to given piece of memory ;-) whoops... erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Phil Beder wrote: ... I wish I was a good enough programmer to contribute to this great project. Maybe one day when I understand more about Linux I could write a more user friendly help interface with clear syntax, option, and flag usage. by that time you'll swear by man pages! :-)) erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Richard Cobbe wrote:
Lo, on Thursday, January 3, Erik Steffl did write:
what's the difference? the point is you can assign almost anything to
anything, and yet there is no segfault - i.e. the strength of types has
nothing (sort of) to do with segfaults... the resource allocation is
crucial...
Type safety (plus dynamic allocation) implies advanced memory
management. The converse is not true: you can slap Boehm's conservative
GC onto a C++ program, but you can still get segmentation faults:
char str[] = { 'b', 'a', 'd', ' ', 's', 't', 'r', 'i', 'n', 'g' };
// note the lack of a terminating '\0'!
cout str;
No allocation issues involved. As Ben Collins pointed out elsewhere in
this thread (bit of a tree-shaped thread, isn't it?), this won't
necessarily cause a segfault, but it can. It's also a violation of
type-safety: cout expects a null-terminated string, and as far as the
compiler is concerned, str fits this. However, there's no runtime check
in the output routine to verify that this is, in fact, the case. Ooops.
that's not really good analysis of what's actually going on. the str
is actually array of characters, it's not really a string (there's no
such thing in c++ language, there is a string as part of standard
library (runtime?-))
so the problem here is that the actual value of the variable is not
according the specs for cout, it's of correct type (char *). And str
certainly evaluates to char *, not a random collection of bits (it's not
really a char * but it doesn't matter in this case)
I don't see any type related problem here. cout assumes something
about the value, it's not true, BOOM!
Therefore, I claim that type safety is a more fundamental concept than
resource mangement.
well, why?
that's all interesting, but the point was that the perl type system is
as weak as I can imagine yet it doesn't lead to segfaults... it's the
resource allocation!
Type safety != `strong' types. They're orthogonal. (Well, sort of. It
turns out that `strong types' isn't a very well-defined concept;
language researchers prefer to discuss compile-time type verification.
*That* definitely has nothing to do with type safety.)
If you cannot make sure that MyUserType variable will only be assigned
MyUserType values then you have (almost) NO type safety.
That's only meaningful if you can declare a variable to be MyUserType at
runtime. This does not apply to a whole variety of languages, many of
which are still type-safe.
(I think I'm just going to decide that Perl's type system is on crack.
pretty much, it's quite strange.
But what do you expect when a linguist designs a programming language?)
perl?
In any case, memory allocation errors aren't the only cause of
segmentation faults---how about walking off the end of an array? Here,
I claim that Perl *does* maintain type-safety, although in a seriously
fscked-up way: it simply expands the array to make the reference valid.
it's not the types! it doesn't care about types at all. it just makes
sure you always have a place to store whatever you are about to store.
what does that have with types? not much. it has to know what are you
trying to store but it doesn't care at all what was there before, what's
the type of variable where you are storing it. again, I find it pretty
strange to call that kind of behaviour 'type safety'.
Yes, it *is* types. Remember the definition of type-safety:
If an expression E is determined at compile time to have type T,
then evaluating E will have one of two results:
1) The value of E is a valid object of type T and not just some
random collection of bits we're misinterpreting as a T.
perl definitely doesn't satisfy this one, or only in very pervert way.
the objects (any variables, not objects as in OO) can evaluate as
different things (e.g. scalar versus array context), even as nothing,
it's just that perl handles nothing better then C (it doesn't do
anything with nothing, because it knows what's allocated).
the other thing is that often it is not evaluated at compile time...
2) a well-defined runtime error occurs (e.g., Java's
ArrayBoundsException).
or segfault? just kidding...
is java type-safe? http://www.research.att.com/~vj/bug.html
perl often does not give you any error message, it just does something
it consider OK to do...
There are no other possibilities.
In this particular case, Perl chooses to use the memory allocation
system to satisfy type safety (it creates a new T, initializes it, and
returns it). It's not the only possibility, though; Java would throw an
exception in this case. No allocation involved.
you just wrote there are no other possibilites and then two lines
later you list another possiblity (what perl does).
Perl definitely doesn't guarantee that something will be evaluated as
some particular type. so
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Gary Turner wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:28:46 -0500, dman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:39:09PM -0600, Gary Turner wrote:
| On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:34:00 -0600 (CST), Richard Cobbe wrote:
|
| Lo, on Thursday, January 3, Erik Steffl did write:
|
| what's the difference? the point is you can assign almost anything to
| anything, and yet there is no segfault - i.e. the strength of types has
| nothing (sort of) to do with segfaults... the resource allocation is
| crucial...
|
| Type safety (plus dynamic allocation) implies advanced memory
| management. The converse is not true: you can slap Boehm's conservative
| GC onto a C++ program, but you can still get segmentation faults:
|
| char str[] = { 'b', 'a', 'd', ' ', 's', 't', 'r', 'i', 'n', 'g' };
| // note the lack of a terminating '\0'!
| cout str;
|
|
| No allocation issues involved. As Ben Collins pointed out elsewhere in
| this thread (bit of a tree-shaped thread, isn't it?), this won't
| necessarily cause a segfault, but it can. It's also a violation of
| type-safety: cout expects a null-terminated string, and as far as the
| compiler is concerned, str fits this. However, there's no runtime check
| in the output routine to verify that this is, in fact, the case. Ooops.
|
| Neophyte that I am, I feel like I'm bringing a knife to this gunfight.
| This example looks to be a cheat, in that you've defined an array and
| then treated it as a string (legal). Had you defined a string, it would
| be null terminated and index addressable.
He did define a string. In C++ there are 3 ways of defining a string
(in C there are 2). There is char[], char* and std::string.
Isn't 'char*' redundant, since an array var is a pointer by definition?
If I'm showing my ignorance again, I apologize.
it's not exactly the same, one thing is that you cannot change where
the array points to, the other difference is how they are treated by
sizeof (there might be other differences).
The latter is the best way because it provides the most protection.
I disagree. He defined an array of characters, just as
int a[] = 1,2,3;
is an array of integers.
To define a string he should say
char a[] = bad string;
or
char a[11];
the last one does not zero-terminate the array.
and btw in all cases the array of characters was defined. in some
cases the array is zero-terminated and can be used with certain
functions that assume it to be zero-terminated. but they are all of same
type.
...
I think that would be an allocation error since it is illegal to
access memory outside the allocated bounds.
It would be nice if c/c++ included array bounds checking, but since it
doesn't, the programmer *must* check and control it himself. The array
is properly allocated. It is the programmer who decided to go into
unmapped territory. If only Picard would release...
in c++ you can (should) use the template class (or string, which is
template instantiated for char) instead of array of characters. the
string class takes cares of checking the length etc.
erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
dman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:10:56PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
| Richard Cobbe wrote:
|
| Lo, on Thursday, January 3, Erik Steffl did write:
|
| what's the difference? the point is you can assign almost anything to
| anything, and yet there is no segfault - i.e. the strength of types has
| nothing (sort of) to do with segfaults... the resource allocation is
| crucial...
|
| Type safety (plus dynamic allocation) implies advanced memory
| management. The converse is not true: you can slap Boehm's conservative
| GC onto a C++ program, but you can still get segmentation faults:
|
| char str[] = { 'b', 'a', 'd', ' ', 's', 't', 'r', 'i', 'n', 'g' };
| // note the lack of a terminating '\0'!
| cout str;
|
| No allocation issues involved. As Ben Collins pointed out elsewhere in
| this thread (bit of a tree-shaped thread, isn't it?), this won't
| necessarily cause a segfault, but it can. It's also a violation of
| type-safety: cout expects a null-terminated string, and as far as the
| compiler is concerned, str fits this. However, there's no runtime check
| in the output routine to verify that this is, in fact, the case. Ooops.
|
| that's not really good analysis of what's actually going on. the str
| is actually array of characters,
yes,
| it's not really a string
it is. More formally it is a C-string, as opposed to std::string
no, it is not a string as there is no such type in C language. it is
used as string in many functions. but it is not a string, it is an array
of characters.
the C-string is '\0'-terminated array of characters but that's NOT a C
type.
| (there's no such thing in c++ language,
Then what is the type of the following expression ?
hello world
it is an array of characters. const (both it's address and value).
It is a string. The compiler calls it const char[11].
it is what compiler calls it, it's not a string.
| there is a string as part of standard library (runtime?-))
There are many types of string in C++.
? in C++ language there are no strings. in C++ standard libraries
there is a string class (template). you can, of course, define your own
string types in C++
| so the problem here is that the actual value of the variable is not
| according the specs for cout, it's of correct type (char *). And str
| certainly evaluates to char *, not a random collection of bits (it's not
| really a char * but it doesn't matter in this case)
|
| I don't see any type related problem here. cout assumes something
| about the value, it's not true, BOOM!
In C/C++ there is an invariant on strings (char*, which is
essentially equivalent to char[]) that they end with a NUL byte.
no, that's not true.
char* or char[] are arrays. SOME functions use them in a way that
requires '\0' character to be somewhere within allocated space for given
array. but that's strictly requirement of value for some pecific
functions, it has nothing to do with definition of language.
it is perfectly legal to use character arrays that have no '\0'
character (just don't use them in functions that assume the '\0' to be
last character to use).
The invariant is an implicit precondition for the operation that was
performed. The coder above broke that invariant, which means that the
precondition for the operation wasn't met, and the result is
undefined (a segfault, if you're lucky).
yes, but that's what was said before. it doesn't have anything to do
with types, it is simply bad value. just like you cannot divide by zero.
A better approach is to use classes with set interfaces to ensure that
any invariants on the type can't be broken, but C doesn't have such
capabilities. It is also better if the system can perform those
checks for you, but it isn't always possible or feasible.
Eiffel provides a way for you to specify the invariants,
preconditions, and postconditions of portions of code (classes and
methods); but even so, not everything can be checked.
that's all good, but the point here is that it's not type issue. the
type of variable and the domain of valid values are two separate issues
(well, you could define a new type where type would be the same as valid
domain but it's not always possible).
| Therefore, I claim that type safety is a more fundamental concept than
| resource mangement.
|
| well, why?
See the above discussion of invariants, preconditions, and
postconditions. Those are part of a type, but have little to do
with resource management.
above discussion is irrelevant to the issue at hand, there is no such
type in C and the preconditions are only for specific functions (and are
more part of specifying valid domain that valid types).
if you don't believe it, just check it again - there is no type error
in the C code quoted above. it's the value that's wrong for given
function (operator ).
erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
dman wrote:
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:39:09PM -0600, Gary Turner wrote:
| On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:34:00 -0600 (CST), Richard Cobbe wrote:
...
| char str[] = { 'b', 'a', 'd', ' ', 's', 't', 'r', 'i', 'n', 'g' };
| // note the lack of a terminating '\0'!
| cout str;
...
| Neophyte that I am, I feel like I'm bringing a knife to this gunfight.
| This example looks to be a cheat, in that you've defined an array and
| then treated it as a string (legal). Had you defined a string, it would
| be null terminated and index addressable.
He did define a string. In C++ there are 3 ways of defining a string
(in C there are 2). There is char[], char* and std::string.
The latter is the best way because it provides the most protection.
no, he did not define a string, he defined an array of chars, which is
often used as string, string manipulating functions in standard
libraries assume that a pointer to char (or char array) will be ended by
'\0' but a char array that does not end with zero is just as good char
array as any other (as far as its type goes).
therefore when the function fails (the one that assumes '\0' at the
end), it does not fail because of type problem but because of the wrong
value.
there is no such thing as string type in c or c++ language (there is a
string in c++ standard libraries).
erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
dman wrote: On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 09:38:01PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote: | dman wrote: ... | In C/C++ there is an invariant on strings (char*, which is | essentially equivalent to char[]) that they end with a NUL byte. | | no, that's not true. It is true. A type is more than the name a compiler gives it. A type the type in C is only what type in C is. what the type is in your head is irrelevant. also includes invariants and pre- and post-conditions of all operations on it. no, not in C. | char* or char[] are arrays. SOME functions use them in a way that | requires '\0' character to be somewhere within allocated space for given | array. but that's strictly requirement of value for some pecific | functions, it has nothing to do with definition of language. | | it is perfectly legal to use character arrays that have no '\0' | character (just don't use them in functions that assume the '\0' to be | last character to use). I agree with you that C/C++ compilers have a limited view on types and don't catch errors like the given example where an array of characters (that fails to meet the invariants on strings) is handed to a function that requires (a precondition) a valid string. Certainly character arrays that aren't strings are legal data types, and you can create the string is convenient name for certain values of character array. it's not a type. your own string type. Remember, though, that a type is more than a name. for you, maybe. for C, not. | The invariant is an implicit precondition for the operation that was | performed. The coder above broke that invariant, which means that the | precondition for the operation wasn't met, and the result is | undefined (a segfault, if you're lucky). | | yes, but that's what was said before. it doesn't have anything to do | with types, it is simply bad value. A bad value is one which fails to meet the invariants of the given type, thus it is not of that type. and which C type would that be? | just like you cannot divide by zero. A precondition to integer and floating point division is that the denominator != 0. If you fail to meet that precondition, the results are undefined. (As a prof of mine likes to say all bets are off) that's precondition of operation, not of type. notice that division accepts any two numbers (again, think of types and domains of valid values) | A better approach is to use classes with set interfaces to ensure that | any invariants on the type can't be broken, but C doesn't have such | capabilities. It is also better if the system can perform those | checks for you, but it isn't always possible or feasible. | | Eiffel provides a way for you to specify the invariants, | preconditions, and postconditions of portions of code (classes and | methods); but even so, not everything can be checked. | | that's all good, but the point here is that it's not type issue. the | type of variable and the domain of valid values are two separate issues | (well, you could define a new type where type would be the same as valid | domain but it's not always possible). It is a type issue. As stated above a type is more than a name; it also includes all the invariants that must be kept. type is what given language considers a type. not what you (or I) consider a type. and also, you need to differentiate between types and domains of valid values (not sure if these are correct english math terms but think of your math classes (mathematical analysis) and I'm quite sure you'll know what that menas - most of math fairy tales starts with: for all x, y from N, where xy (N is type, condition after where specifies domain of valid values)) | | Therefore, I claim that type safety is a more fundamental concept than | | resource mangement. | | | | well, why? | | See the above discussion of invariants, preconditions, and | postconditions. Those are part of a type, but have little to do | with resource management. | | above discussion is irrelevant to the issue at hand, there is no such | type in C and the preconditions are only for specific functions (and are | more part of specifying valid domain that valid types). | | if you don't believe it, just check it again - there is no type error | in the C code quoted above. it's the value that's wrong for given | function (operator ). I agree that the C compiler has an incomplete notion of 'types' (based solely on name) which is why *it* doesn't tell you that you made an error. yes, but: solely on name: not sure what you mean here, you refer to types by names in all languages, it's just that definition of type might be more complicated, in C you have certain primitive types that you can use to construct new type given specific operations (typedef, struct, ...), in some languages you might have a way to specify type using 'procedural' conditions. in the example above
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
Eric G. Miller wrote: ... merely a subset of them (0=ilength). The problem is that today's programming languages don't provide a mechanism to express this so programmers approximate it with types that describe supersets of the set they want. (this explains why I dislike java and its type system so much; for C it is acceptable because C excels at the low-level problems it was intended to solve) FYI: There are modern languages where you can define limimited range numerical types. Ada is one such language: type Tri_State is range 0 .. 2; or subtype Tri_State is Integer range 0 .. 2; doesn't pascal allow the same type definition? and btw you have enum in C (well, it's only for integers and good luck defining 0 .. 100 :-)) erik
Re: OT: Language War (Re: C Manual)
dman wrote:
On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 04:51:14PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
| dman wrote:
|
| On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 09:38:01PM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
| | dman wrote:
| ...
| | In C/C++ there is an invariant on strings (char*, which is
| | essentially equivalent to char[]) that they end with a NUL byte.
| |
| | no, that's not true.
|
| It is true. A type is more than the name a compiler gives it. A type
|
| the type in C is only what type in C is. what the type is in your head
| is irrelevant.
No, a type is a certain thing, irrespective of the language you are
currently working with. A type is a higher-level thing than a
compiler is. Each languge has its own way of (trying) to express
well, but it certainly doesn't make sense to complain about type error
when it refers to a type that's in your head only (which was at the
beginning of this thread).
...
| solely on name: not sure what you mean here, you refer to types by
| names in all languages,
In python you only refer to a type by referencing a factory for that
type (class objects are factories for their own instances). Eg the
what's the difference? there might be static or dynamic typing but you
still refer to it by its name (of class, factory or whatever the given
language chooses). or you just have it as a 'no-type' variable (which
basically means it's a default language type, it's basically a
shortcut).
function you have below would be written as :
def operator_star( i , j ) :
if i j : segfault()
else : return float( i*j )
note that there is no mention of the types of i, j, or the return
value. The closest it comes is calling a function named 'float' that
good. that makes it even more clear that the segfault is because of
the value, not because of the type:-)
converts it's argument to a floating point object.
| it's just that definition of type might be more
| complicated, in C you have certain primitive types that you can use to
| construct new type given specific operations (typedef, struct, ...), in
| some languages you might have a way to specify type using 'procedural'
| conditions.
'typedef' in C is the same as #define, except for the binding of, eg,
well, it's not a true type, you're right that it's basically a
shorthand even though a little bit different from define...
...
'struct' creates a name that refers to a combination of other names,
but still that is not the complete type.
it's really hard to tell what is a 'complete type'. the point is that
there are various ways to create a new type as various combinations of
old type (typedef being the most simple one, struct being somewhat more
complicated). in other languages you have more complex ways to specify
type (e.g. classes in OO languages).
| in the example above (sort of, it's not quoted anymore) there is only
| one variable involved and so you can try to make it an issue of type,
| why is it wrong and why you have to consider types and domains of valid
| values separately is clear when using more than one variable.
|
| imagine that you have a binary operator that only works for certain
| values of parameters:
Ok :
| int operator * (int i, int j)
| {
| if(ij) segfault()
| elsereturn (double)i * (double)j;
| }
The complete type of 'j' is _not_ int. The complete type is an
integer that is less than i.
the type is related to variable, not to a set of variables. show me a
way to define i (before definition of the function) so that it will be
proper type for function (function does not segfault. maybe this will
make it a bit more clear:
Type i;
int operator *(Type i)
{
int j = rand();
if(ij) segfault();
return (double)i * (double)j;
}
now specify Type (that can be used in the first line to define
variable i, suitable for operator *).
it is obviously impossible because the type of i must be specified as
property of variable i while acceptable values for function are property
of function. the type and set of valid input values are not the same
(again, remember the math analysis courses, I guess you took some)
notice that your solution above specified the condition as part of the
function (a precondition), not as part of the variable type.
| is there any way to specify types of i and j so that it never
| segfaults? no.
I agree that C has no way of expressing that, which is why you need to
C or any other language - type and set of valid values are NOT the
same thing. e.g. you have to specify type of variable when you create it
but the whether it's in the set of valid values might not be known until
it's inside of the function.
manually insert runtime checks on the values. You are asserting an
invariant on the real type of 'j' since the C compiler can't do it for
you.
nobody can do it because outside of the function there might be no j!
VMD-SL is a modelling language heavily based in discrete mathematics
Re: Freezing with Sound
Stephen Gran wrote: Thus spake Aldous B Bernardo: I recently installed ALSA (0.5.12) on my Potato. When I play something with freeamp or xmms my desktop freezes. The funny thing is that I notice freeamp or xmms still functions well, there is still sound but all the other parts of my desktop including the panel, the launchers, and menu freezes. If I stop freeamp or xmms, then all the icons that I clicked will execute. I tried monitoring it on gtop but it seems that cpu usage is about 10% or less only. Another thing... where do you place the skins in xmms? what directory? I have several skins for winamp and I want to use it in xmms but I dont know where to place it. For the freeze - I don't know. Look through your logs (.xsession-errors, kern.log, perhaps alsa's logs - don't use so don't know where it logs) and report back. The skins on the other hand, are easy. ~/.xmms/Skins/ the 'freezing' is probably caused by some gnome (or kde, whatever desktop you use) application trying to play a sound, since the dsp is already used by xmms (it must be one of the desktop thingies since you say that the whole desktop is frozen). last time I tried both kde and gnome were fairly broken as far as the sound capabilities go (e.g. programs would die when there's no soundcard available, programs would froze waiting for sound card to be available etc.). you might get better results using esd (with gnome, bnot sure if kde supports is), or disabling all sounds in gnome (kde). erik
Re: Debian, FHS /floppy
martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Romuald DELAVERGNE [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002.01.16.1837 +0100]: Le 2002.01.16 16:17, martin f krafft a écrit : exaclty. but say you have /mnt/cdrom and /mnt/floppy, and both mounted, and now you want to make proper use of what /mnt is, and you mount another partition on /mnt. byebye cdrom, byebye floppy. Yes I know. I just use '/mnt' as a directory which contains directories for all mountable peripherals. Before, I haved symbolic links in '/' to these directories. I removed them to make '/' cleaner. which is exactly the point, and which violates the FHS: section 3.11: /mnt : Mount point for a temporarily mounted filesystem ^ it is the mount point for *a* filesystem, not a directory to hold mount points for a number of filesystems. I think this point is well understood by all the parties but: if you have more then one temporarily mounted filesystem, where do you mount it? It does not make sense to have a mount point for one filesystem but not for few of them. erik
Re: Debian, FHS /floppy
martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002.01.16.2306 +0100]: if you have more then one temporarily mounted filesystem, where do you mount it? It does not make sense to have a mount point for one filesystem but not for few of them. as others have said and suggested, i also rarely use /mnt. if i need a mount point, i'll quickly create one on the fly. i believe there are the question was _WHERE_ (with implied: so that it doesn't break FHS). [we are not talking about mount for one user, (s)he can do it somewhere under ~, we are talking about system wide mounts (for everybody)] erik
Re: Windows vs. Linux
Bruce Burhans wrote: Someone asked me what the difference between Windows and Linux was, and I presumed to answer: Windows grew out of the work of self-involved gameplayers, and Linux grew out of the work of people concerned with using the computer to make the world a better place. origin of windows does not have anything to do with games, it took quite some time until games were available for windows (most of the games were for dos during beginning of windows). windows is a product of ms marketing mostly and that's why it behaves the way it does, it's main features are to lock you in, to force you to buy updates etc. erik
Re: Any interest in a cyrus2 package
Nigel Pauli wrote: On Saturday 02 February 2002 06:58, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: [Apologies if you're seeing this the second time, I post a couple of days ago but it doesnt seem to have shown up.] The Debian package of cyrus-imapd is rather old and the maintainer seems to be MIA so I'm thinking of doing a package for cyrus2. The limiting factor right now is my little girl is taking most of my available time but i'm interested and if others are too, I'll try to do it. So reply here if you want a cyrus2 package or have any suggestions about it. Yes please. The O'Reilly Imap book made very positive noises about Cyrus 2 and I had a go at building it on Mandrake [I think] but ran into a blizzard of dependency problems. definitely, from previous discussion it looks like people use: deb http://www.boxedpenguin.com/prototype release/ because debian packages are too old to be useful. However even the packages on boxed penguin are not very new (1.6.24) so 2.x packages would be appreciated. erik
Re: Proprietry Software - The Pain!
Paul Sargent wrote: ... Now Application A (What the apps are really doesn't matter. They're closed, I don't have source), for which the box was originally built, was developed by the software house on Debian. So when it came time to build our box we replicated their systems and used Debian (Testing). This also suited me for obvious reasons. This has worked so well that we're starting to look at running other jobs on this box. This is where the problems start. Application B is supplied by a different software house, one which has RedHat 6.2 as it's supported platform. Unfortunatly, during trials we've observed stability problems, with the application crashing in repeatable ways. ... the difference is almost 100% in shared libraries used. You have few options: - get them to build statically linked application, - get them to send you all the shared libraries they have on the working system and use force application to load those instead of the shared libs that are on your system (maybe chroot or jail the application). - get the exact versions of all the shared libs they use and build these on your system and do the same as in previous case. alternatively let them do the same (use your libs), it's more work for them so I guess they would be reluctant to do it but it would also make it possible to actually solve the problem (which is _probably_ on their side, from what you wrote). erik
Re: Fetchmail and Netscape
Marc Shapiro wrote: I use Netscape Communicator 4.77 for my e-mail client. (So fa,r, I haven't found anythiong else that I am happier with.) Sometimes, however, its mail filtering just doesn't seem to work quite right. I am thinking about using fetchmail to get my POP3 mail. I have done this before, though not recently, and I think that I can get it working again. My question, however, is how do I filter the mail into Netscape's mailboxes? Do I just set my server preferences to say that I am using movemail and then have procmail (or something like it) sort directly into Netscape's mailboxes, since it uses the standard mbox format? yes, even though IMO using IMAP is better (generally). depending o which IAMP server you'd use you would go with procmail or sieve (cyrus). Is procmail the best program to use for filtering, or does anyone have other suggestions? there is some fairly interesting perl module, don't remember the name but I guess you can find it on cpan.org erik
Re: (OT) chicago
Alex Malinovich wrote: On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 11:56, Rich Puhek wrote: tristate. And I've still never found the post office. Everyone in Chicago seems to go to the same post office, since they'll tell you how long it takes to get there! I'm guessing that you're just joking, but at least for the benefit of dman if/when he gets here, some clarification is in order. I can't for the life of me remember which road it is, (I stick to the Skyway for most of my city drives) but it runs right through a big building that says U.S. Post Office on it. So, next time you drive through a building, assuming, of course, that you're SUPPOSED to be driving through it, and didn't get there due to a traffic mishap, make note of where it is, and you'll have your Post Office. :) it's pretty amazing what one can learn on debian-user mailing list:-) erik
Re: C-A-Fx not working in XFree86 4.0.2?
Paul D. Smith wrote:
It seems to me that I saw something about this a few months ago, but 30
mins+ with Google and the Debian mailing list archive search engine
netted me zippo :(.
I upgraded to the latest testing version a few days ago, and ever since
I did I can't use C-A-F{1,2,3...} to switch back to my text console.
The key sequence is simply ignored as if I'd done nothing at all.
Prior to this I was using a testing version from about 4-5 weeks ago,
with X 4.0.1 (IIRC).
I switched window managers (from fvwm2 beta to sawfish), but the problem
persists, so I it's not a WM taking those keys (is that even possible,
or does X intercept them too early?)
I haven't changed my XF86Config-4 file (I have nothing in my ServerFlags
section). I haven't changed anything in any other setup that I can
think of. I _do_ have getty's running on the first 6 consoles; once I
quit X I can A-F2, etc. to switch to them.
I've tried this both with a DM (GDM) started, and without one (using
startx from the console).
Darn weird: anyone know what's going on here?
does chvt work?
are any other key-combinations ignored? there is this application
(can't remember the name) that hsows which keys were pressed - try it to
see how your keyboard works...
erik
Re: FW: OT : GUI Interfaces
csj wrote: ... Which brings me to my favorite lite-wm peeve. Why do most of them lack a persistent menu/taskbar? Take Blackbox (a favorite from the posts I have read). To open a new app you have to click at the desktop (or is there some abstruse keyboard shortcut?) to bring up the app-ropriate menu The problem: how do you click at the desktop when you have a maximized app filling the screen? Ditto for WindowMaker (though I have found out there's a keyboard shortcut). Here's one problem the Windows folks have solved pretty well. A menu/taskbar that lets you launch apps and Amazon through them. fvwm can be configured to do almost everything - you can have keyboard shortcuts, panel (with icon manager, launch menu, launch buttons, almost any X application swallowed (I wouldn't recommend swallowing staroffice though:-) etc...) etc... the only problem is that I still do not know the full functionality of fvwm:-) the configuration is via config file(s) mostly but there is already a fairly sophisticated theme engine (you can change different parts separately, e.g. change window decorations look but not keyboard shortcuts etc.) ready for next version (usable but beta)... erik
Re: what i've learned, and explanation.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... read for those who have little familiarlity with Linux. Personally, I don't think either of those resources were of any help to me until I was at least 3 months in, and I had a pretty solid background in general computing concepts, and the willingness to spend a lot of time reading this stuff. how long did it take you to learn to readwrite? were books helpful since the beginning? some things are just not simple and take some time... (and yes, some things in linux are unneccessarily complicated) I guess my point is that people who just brush off requests for help and say, the man pages and HOWTOs should be good enough, are avoiding the nobody said that. everybody ackowledged that the documentation needs work... (just like the rest of the linux) erik
Re: how to avoid the X windiws login?
Duser wrote: Well everytime i make X windows work on my pc on a debian installation the next login i'm forced to have a graphic login (on tty7)wich leads me directly to a working windows system (even if at installation time i told the system not to set xdm to give me the grph login), as you can imagine i'm certainly not a linux guru and i cant menage to avoid an x window session start and eat my memory and my processor time, can you help me? others already told you what to do but here's some background info: as long as you don't actually use it it does not eat your cpu cycles and its eventually swapped out to disk so unless you have very small swap space you don't have to worry about having X started - it's not a big deal, basically you should NOT be able to tell whether X was started on not from system performance, try using top to see system load and programs that are eating up cpu/memory. you probably already know you can use ctrl-alt-Fn (n is 1 thourgh 6 by default) to switch to text consoles. erik
Re: computer hangs when idle
Gil Elad wrote: Hello, I'm running Potato with kernel 2.2.17 compiled with apm support on an Intel PIII with an Intel D815EEA motherboard with apm enabled at BIOS. When the computer is busy -- for example downloading a file from the web everything's fine, console blanks after a few minutes, and I get control back when I press a key at the keyboard. If, however, the computer is completely idle for the same period of time, either the console or the entire computer hangs (I can't tell the difference since the system won't respond to neither the keyboard nor the mouse), and I have to use the one finger kick to get back to work - which of course takes a while since fsck needs to finish it's thing. Any ideas as to what could be the problem and what I can do to solve it is wholeheartedly welcome. I would say it's related to apm. try to see what you can set in bios and in kernel, there are various options. if you can't get it to work try to disable it (that would be actually a good start, disable it and then try to enable various options). erik
Re: Debian compatibility with MP3 devices
Noah L. Meyerhans wrote: Hey all. I am considering purchasing some kind of small portable mp3 player, but I don't want to get one that can only download its songs from a Windows box. I know that there's kernel support for a USB link to a Diamond Rio 500 (and later models?). But it seems like there are better players out there (i.e. players with more memory). Does anybody here own such a device? Which ones can talk to Linux? I have my eyes set on http://pjbox.com/ with 20GB HD, it was reported as working well with linux. It's quite expensive but they also have cheaper 6GB version. It looks like it's fairly good technically, it has 10min. memory (so the HD can sleep longer = longer battery life)... erik
Re: bad minute?
Stephen E. Hargrove wrote: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, David Jardine wrote: On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 06:03:00PM -0500, Stephen E. Hargrove wrote: When I edit my crontab (crontab -e) and try to save my changes, I get the following messages: crontab.16288 54L, 1391C written crontab: installing new crontab /tmp/crontab.16288:1: bad minute errors in crontab file, can't install. Do you want to retry the same edit? ^^ Does it dislike octal numbers? huh? numbers beginning with zero (with at least one number after that) are considered octal numbers in C. Not sure if it applies here (if cron would think it's octal number, but if it would why would it read it is octal zero (which is the same as any other zero...)) erik
Re: 2.4.3 + X 4.0.2 + star office = dead box
Gerd Bürger wrote: Hi, Try running an xosview and watching your usage creep up. If you're really desperate to use StarOffice, try adding an extra swapfile as described in mkswap(8) and swapon(8). Same problem for me. I only have 8Mb memory and 30Mb swap. vmstat shows the swapping (very!) slowly increasing, with heavy disk activity. X applications run relatively fast, so it seems to come from StarOffice. staroffice starts slowly on any machine, I have 1GHz pentium and 128MB RAM and it still takes much longer to start staroffice then all other apps (only netscape comes close). I think it's because of disk traffic, I use gkrellm to watch the swap, disks, load and cpu load does not go very high, it's mostly the disk, sometime swap (depending on how much memory was already used). kernel 2.4.2 (I think) has some VM problems, it is encouraged to use -ac patch (at least 18?), I had some problems - when netscape is running for a long time it takes up almost all the memory, when I start something memory intensive at that point the load on machine goes high (1000% and the mouse pointer is almost not moving, the window do not change fucos in an HOUR or more!), the machine is basically unusable (not sure if it would come back to its senses, I never waited more then few hours). But I guess this was fixed in 2.4.3 erik
Re: any women here?
Deirdre Saoirse wrote: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, will trillich wrote: Like most places in GNU/Linux land, and IT in general for that matter, the project (newbiedoc) isn't getting all the help that it needs because: the help of women is lacking. It's sad to see 1/2 the human race is missing, once again. There are some women working on tech. projects here and there, but as we well know, it's male dominated. It could be because a lot of women are brushed off, or feel that they are. I must confess that sometimes it seems like men have invisible rays with which they communicate, because women aren't a part of that hive mind, not how the hell did you find out? it was supposed to be never-to-be-revealed secret. even women engineers with 25 years experience. erik (notice no smiley)
Re: [alsa-user] Linux ALSA sound ThinkPad 380ED
are these PCI devices? if so, do not use isapnp, set your bios so that it does not expect plug and play support in OS and all should be fine... try lspci to see if the sound card is listed as pci device erik Terry Hancock wrote: [Cross-posted to debian-user and alsa-user, not sure which is more appropriate] Okay, I have a ThinkPad 380ED (Actually two of them -- so I'll refer to them as #1 and #2, I'm installing #1 while using #2, which has a pre-installed Windows 95 OS and working sound). I'm trying to install ALSA (=Advanced Linux Sound Architecture http://www.alsa-project.org ) sound support onto it. The problem seems to be that I don't know whether this is actually a plug-and-play (PnP) device or not. If not, I do not see how to select parameters for it. If so, I am not able to detect it with the isapnptools package in Linux, which reports no boards found. DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM: Supposedly this has a CS4236B chipset sound system (and I have no reason to doubt this, though I'm just quoting the specifications from other sources). Sound was working fine with pre-installed Windows. It still does on #2. Laptop #1 however, has now got Debian Potato 2.2 Linux installed. Kernel 2.2.17. I download ALSA support for 0.4.1i from the testing version of Debian. From the Windows INI file on Laptop #2, I see the following information: [PNP] WssIO=534 WssInt=5 WssDmaPlay=1 WssDmaCapture=0 SbIO=220 OplIO=388 OplInt=Disabled GameIO=200 4232IO=538 4232Int=Disabled MPU401IO=330 MPU401Int=9 CDIO=Disabled CDInt=Disabled CDDma=Disabled A peek at the Device Manager in windows, gives: Crystal PnP Audio System CODEC/Joystick I/O range 0201-0201 I/O range 0534-0537 I/O range 0388-038B I/O range 0220-022F IRQ 05 DMA 01 DMA 00 Crystal PnP Audio System Control Registers I/O range 0538-053F (I'm not too familiar with Windows, so I'm just making educated guesses about the meanings of these lines in both the INI and the Device Manager). It appears that Device Manager is only reporting the resources consumed, and not what their function is, though the INI is a bit more informative. I know the 0x388 port is the old Adlib compatibility FM synth port, which was preserved in the Soundblasters. I also know 0x220 is a default Soundblaster port. Manually configured sound cards usually use IRQ 5 or 7. Not really familiar with the rest of it. I have tried various permutations of these numbers in the alsa configuration (/etc/modutils/alsa). Here is the present incarnation, plus some notes about variations I tried (on Laptop #1): # --- BEGIN: Generated by ALSACONF, do not edit. --- # --- ALSACONF verion 0.4.2 --- alias char-major-116 snd alias snd-card-0 snd-card-cs4236 alias char-major-14 soundcore alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0 alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm1-oss alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm1-oss options snd snd_major=116 snd_cards_limit=1 snd_device_mode=0660 snd_device_gid=29 snd_device_uid=0 options snd-card-cs4236 snd_index=1 snd_id=CARD_1 snd_port=0x538 snd_cport=0x538 snd_mpu_port=0x330 snd_fm_port=0x388 snd_irq=5 snd_mpu_irq=9 snd_dma1=0 snd_dma1_size=64 snd_dma2=1 snd_dma2_size=64 # --- END: Generated by ALSACONF, do not edit. --- Most of the relevant parts ar in the options part. I have tried: snd_port= 0x538, 0x534, 0x53f, 0x53e 0x53d 0x535,0x220 (with 0x534, 0x538 being tested the most) snd_irq= 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,15 (actually some of these aren't supposed to be legal) snd_mpu_irq=9,11,12,15 With any of these I get the same behavior: Starting ALSA sound driver (version 0.4.1i):isapnp: No Plug Play device found snd: isapnp detection failed and probing for CS4236+ is not supported snd: CS4236+ soundcard #1 not found at 0x534 or device busy snd: CS4236+ soundcard #2 not found or device busy (cs4236) I thought that the 0x534 part changed according to what I had snd_port set to, but I tried changing this to 0x220 while working on this e-mail, and it didn't change. I DID use update-modules and modules.conf shows my selection of snd_port. I don't know what that means, but it suggests that my settings aren't being used somehow. Okay I investigated this a little just now -- using modprobe with the snd-card-cs4236 and the above options shows the failure at the address I selected, but if I edit the config file, run update-modules, and then either reboot or stop and start alsa, I get the message referring to 0x534. Hmm. I've been struggling with this for four days now, so I'm getting pretty frustrated with it! If you can offer any suggestions, I'd really appreciate it! -- Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list send message 'unsubscribe' in the body of
mutt, email and ssl: SSL is unavailable.
I have the following setting in mutt:
set folder={localhost/ssl}mail
I start mutt and it says:
SSL is unavailable.
is there anything I have to do to enable ssl? Since the description of
mutt package says it supports ssl I thought it would work right away.
There is no separate mutt-ssl package...
this is what package description says:
o Advanced IMAP client supporting Kerberos authentication (and in some
situations SSL encryption).
BTW: I can access the same server using ssl from netscape (at least I
think it uses ssl, I specified it in mail server properties and it asks
to confirm the certificate)
TIA
erik
Re: xdm on beta-blockers (2)
Martin WHEELER wrote: Sorry; on previous, forgot to add: [Please cc any replies to author, as not subscribed to this list. Thank you.] OK, I give up. Can anyone explain to me why xdm now takes a full 60 seconds to load and kick in? you can replace the /dev/urandom by /dev/mem (grep random /etc/X11/xdm/*), it fixes the problem I am not sure how good it is overall (it might cause some security problems, I believe that device is used to get some random numbers and generally the more random numbers you get the better the security, see also docs for ssh, it says something about slow starts which I think is the same problem) erik
Re: Karsten's browser reviews (updated)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2001, ktb wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 08:34:22PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: I've updated my review of GNU/Linux web browsing alternatives, largely in light of recent advances by the Mozilla and Galeon teams. I'm looking for feedback, particularly on anything I might have missed. http://home.netcom.com/GNU/Linux/FAQs/browsers.html I might add that I'm quite pleased with Galeon. That URL doesn't resolve for me. Couldn't find a combination that worked. kent http://kmself.home.netcom.com/Linux/FAQs/browsers.html worked for me. Thanks for the comparisons, Karsten! I have a sort-of-related question - I've seen the netscape customization on the page and I use basically the same set-up for wheel mouse and experience following scrolling problem: the wheel works pgup/pgdown works arrows DO NOT work funny thing is that when I press the left/right arrows the Location: field becomes active and up/down arrows scroll the wv page viewed! left right continue to work in Location: field. I just tried the exact settings from your (Karsten's) page and they cause exactly the same problem. When I do not use anything related to wheel mouse in customization the arrow keys work properly. netscape 4.77, debian unstable... any ideas? anybody else seen this problem? TIA erik
no mutt-ssl but we can have apacvhe-ssl? what's the deal?
the README.Debian for mutt says: SSL support ~~~ SSL support has been disabled because debian cannot legally distribute binaries of a GPLed program like mutt linked with a library with a four clauses BSD-style license like the one of OpenSSL. If you want SSL support you'll have to install the libssl09-dev package and recompile the package yourself after editing debian/rules. No source changes are needed. there are other *-ssl packages like apache ssl. why can't we have mutt-ssl? is there any chance there will be mutt-ssl in the future? what's the story? thanks for any insight erik
logitech mouseManPlus and fourth button: how to make it work?
Q: is there any way to get the fourth button (on the side of the logitech mouseMan with wheel) working? It does not work at all - not even with xev. I have: logitech cordless mouseMan wheel mouse (4 buttons wheel) XFree86 Version 4.0.3 here's what works and how (so far): MouseManPlusPS/2 buttons 123 are working plain PS/2buttons 123 are working IMPS/2buttons 123 and wheel are working so IMPS/2 is almost pefect, only thing not working is the side button. here's the relevant part of XF86Config-4: Section InputDevice Identifier Logitech Driver mouse Option CorePointer # OptionProtocol MouseManPlusPS/2 Option Protocol IMPS/2 # works too: Option Protocol PS/2 Option Device/dev/psaux Option Emulate3Buttons false Option Buttons 6 Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection btw I've read the README.mouse and debian-user but haven't found answer (that would work, the settings in X docs for mouseMan+ do not work with mouseMan wheel) TIA erik
wheel scrolls but arrows keys don't in netscape
I have set up the netscape according to: http://www-sop.inria.fr/koala/colas/mouse-wheel-scroll/ now the scrolling with mouse works fairly ok but I cannot scroll using space (full page) or arrow keys. what's strange is that when I use left/right arrow keys the Location: fields becomes activated (and cursor moves right left as I press arrow keys), now with Location field active I can use up/down arrows to scroll the html document! The space does not work in this case either. is there any way to make both wheel and arrow keys/space work in netscape? TIA here are the settings from the page above I used (I also tried various combinations of these and the defualt settings that come with netscape, it made no difference): !## NETSCAPE Netscape*drawingArea.translations: #replace\ Btn1Down: ArmLink() \n\ Btn2Down: ArmLink() \n\ ~ShiftBtn1Up: ActivateLink() \n\ ~ShiftBtn2Up: ActivateLink(new-window) \ DisarmLink()\n\ ShiftBtn1Up:ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink()\n\ ShiftBtn2Up:ActivateLink(save-only) \ DisarmLink()\n\ Btn1Motion: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ Btn2Motion: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ Btn3Motion: DisarmLinkIfMoved() \n\ Motion: DescribeLink() \n\ Btn3Down: xfeDoPopup()\n\ Btn3Up: ActivatePopup() \n\ CtrlBtn4Down: PageUp()\n\ CtrlBtn5Down: PageDown()\n\ ShiftBtn4Down: LineUp()\n\ ShiftBtn5Down: LineDown()\n\ NoneBtn4Down: LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ NoneBtn5Down: LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ AltBtn4Down: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ AltBtn5Down: xfeDoCommand(back)\n Netscape*globalNonTextTranslations: #override\n\ ShiftBtn4Down: LineUp()\n\ ShiftBtn5Down: LineDown()\n\ NoneBtn4Down:LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()LineUp()\n\ NoneBtn5Down:LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()LineDown()\n\ AltBtn4Down: xfeDoCommand(forward)\n\ AltBtn5Down: xfeDoCommand(back)\n erik
Re: various selection/clipboard mechanisms in X
this works with most application (I guess you already know it): drag left mouse button to select click middle mouse button to copy the selected text to focused window (field) here comes the saviour: when it does not work, notably with staroffice, use xcutsel, try to select, click one of the buttons in xcutsel, try to copy ... it usually works with one button (there are only two buttons in xcutsel) or another (depending if you copy from or to staroffice or other non-standard program) this is not much of an explanation but it might help you anyway, I was able to copy almost everything so far (don't remeber anything I couldn't copy), it helps a lot if you use X servers under ms windows... or use vnc... etc... erik Alan Eugene Davis wrote: Greetings to everyone. May I ask where I may find a tutorial or explanation about the use of the mouse under X? I am puzzled by the variations. Some programs can cut and paste into others, while others cannot. Reading mail in Sylpheed, I just noticed, I was able to just highlight a URL (left button drag) and then just click with middle button in Netscape Location slot. Then, in another instance when the url was highlighted by Sylpheed this didn't work. Presumeably this is because the URL did not have http://; prefixed to it in the first instance. This is not a problem isolated to Sylpheed, however. There are three different selection buffer/clipboard programs, not one of which can do exactly what I need: xclipboard, xpaste, and xcutsel. I haven't yet figured out the difference. I think xclipboard is the best; but I cannot print without again copying into one of the others! (Why can't I just highlight a paragraph in Netscape and print the highlighted region? Emacs rules!) Emacs has it's own way of working with the mouse, and interoperability isn't assured, but it seems to be getting better recently. Is there some setup to get all these things talking? Alan Davis Marianas High School, -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-670-235-6580 Alan E. Davis, PMB 30, Box 10006, Saipan, MP 96950-8906, CNMI I have steadily endeavored to keep my mind free, so as to give up any hypothesis, however much beloved -- and I cannot resist forming one on every subject -- as soon as facts are shown to be opposed to it. -- Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
aptitude holds back packages (while pt-get does not)
since some time ago the aptitude started to act strangely - everytime I do update (u) and then upgrade (g) it holds back huge number of packages (20+). when I run apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade no packages (or only two or three) are held back. I can manually set the packages to be updated (+) and they are updated, so there is no reason to hold them back, I am pretty sure that I did not put the packages on hold manually (it happens repeatedly) - anybody knows what's the deal? should I file a bug (there's no such bug yet) I thought that the information about state of packages (like package being held back) is shared among all the apt application (aptitude, apt-get etc...), how come they are on hold in aptitude but not in apt-get? TIA erik
cups: The requested resource was not found on this server
the cups was working just a minute ago and I was able to print using lp filename I checked the default samba command and tried if it works: lpr -r -P%p %s (I used epson740 instead of %p and filename instead of %s) it didn't print because of printer error (paper jam). from then on (not sure if there's any causality there, I also upgraded system at the same time) the printers do not work: jojda:/home/erik# lp rrr lp: unable to print file: The requested resource was not found on this server. jojda:/home/erik# lpq epson740 is ready no entries it doesn't even get to queue... I haven't found anything suspicious (or even related) in syslog or cups logs... any ideas? I tried enable/disable printers (no error messages from therese), restarting of cups (no error messages) nothing helps. any ideas? haven't found anything related on the web... but I have found out there is a huge number of OLD bugs (more or less serious) files against cupsys package. anybody knows the story? is it going to orphaned or something? I thought it's on the way to become primary printing system. it certainly was easy to set up and it _was_ working nicely. when it was working. now the web interface doesn't work anymore (plus there are other problems). TIA erik
Re: cups: The requested resource was not found on this server
Erik Steffl wrote: the cups was working just a minute ago and I was able to print using lp filename I checked the default samba command and tried if it works: lpr -r -P%p %s (I used epson740 instead of %p and filename instead of %s) it didn't print because of printer error (paper jam). from then on (not sure if there's any causality there, I also upgraded system at the same time) the printers do not work: jojda:/home/erik# lp rrr lp: unable to print file: The requested resource was not found on this server. jojda:/home/erik# lpq epson740 is ready no entries it doesn't even get to queue... I haven't found anything suspicious (or even related) in syslog or cups logs... any ideas? I tried enable/disable printers (no error messages from therese), restarting of cups (no error messages) nothing helps. any ideas? haven't found anything related on the web... but I have found out there is a huge number of OLD bugs (more or less serious) files against cupsys package. anybody knows the story? is it going to orphaned or something? I thought it's on the way to become primary printing system. it certainly was easy to set up and it _was_ working nicely. when it was working. now the web interface doesn't work anymore (plus there are other problems). it's even worse. I rebooted, printing still does not work (same eror message). I can't find anything printing related that changed recently: jojda:/home/erik# dpkg -L cupsys cupsys-bsd cupsys-client |xargs -l ls -dl|grep 'May 17' only prints out few directories, there are only two files changed in /etc/cups: /etc/cups/printers.conf /etc/cups/certs/0 the printers.conf looks like this: # Printer configuration file for CUPS v1.1.6 # Written by cupsd on Thu May 17 08:22:52 2001 DefaultPrinter epson740 Info Epson Stylus Color 740 (360 dpi) Location local DeviceURI parallel:/dev/lp0 State Idle Accepting Yes JobSheets none none /Printer Printer epson740_720 Info Epson Stylus Color 740 (720 dpi) Location local DeviceURI parallel:/dev/lp0 State Idle Accepting Yes JobSheets none none /Printer the certs directory looks like this: jojda:/home/erik# ls -l /etc/cups/certs/ total 9 -r--r-1 root lpadmin32 May 17 02:04 0 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:23 12759 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:23 12772 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:36 12932 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:51 13692 -r1 lp sys32 Jan 21 16:12 15339 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:58 15569 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:59 15582 -r1 lp sys32 Apr 29 23:59 15596 and now the most surprising part: I just tried xpp, it worked! and now lp works as well... samba default command 'lpr -r -Pepson740 rrr' work... what the hell happened??? any ideas anybody? erik
Re: nautilus 1.0.3-2 won't start
Philipp Bliedung wrote: hi I apt-get nautilus from unstable and the installation went without any errors, but when I try to start it I get this error message: nautilus: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: cannot load shared object file: No such file or directory error while loading shared libraries: nautilus: undefined symbol: xmlCheckVersion it works here on 'pure' unstable, just installed it. which package am I missing? What does the xmlCheck mean? (originally I'm on a potato machine but I have A LOT of stuff from unstable, which I need for games and multimedia - so it could well be that there is a package that I miss ... or maybe two ...) then why not have unstable? my experience is that unstable is the best way to go for a computer that is not mission critical... I have been using unstable most of the time since the time potato was unstable and had no major problems. I tried testing for some time but as far as I can tell it combines the worst of both words: - you don't have the latest stuff (which is important in lot of cases - e.g. kernel etc...), the gap is often in range of months - the fixes are slow to come (weeks in testing compared to days in unstable) I had considerably less problems since I switched back to unstable about a month ago... that leaves you with two choices - unstable and stable. since stable is too 'old' for you then obvious choice is unstable... you do not gain any stability by combining the unstable and stble, you actually loose some as shown by the nautilus problem... that's just IMO, of course... erik
Re: potato or woody?
Bill Wohler wrote: Stefano [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm going to install debian gnu/linux on a new computer and I'm wondering if woody is stable enough. What would you suggest me: potato or woody? I find that the biggest problem with woody is the update process. Packages are often installed with broken dependencies. Once I finally get a clean install, the software itself works just fine. It can be extremely frustrating, but this is the price you pay to stay on the bleeding edge. broken dependencies? then how come it's installed? I use unstable and it works fine (and fixes are fast, in most cases). considering the interval between releases and quality the terms unstable/stable are a bit misleading when compared to the rest of computer world. unstable is unstable but is generally fully usable and about the same level of quality as newest releases of other distros... unstable is suitable for servers or other computers that are mission critical (which most of the home machines or personal workstations are not). do not forget to backup your data though (and that's valid for both stable and unstable) erik
Re: What's up with the list?
John Willey wrote: Now, I appreciate seeing the word die and Outlook in the same sentence as much as the next guy, but why are all the messages on this list suddenly in German? Is something on the listserve screwed up, or is it just me? Is anybody else suddenly receiving the German version of this list? I get them too... probably some mailing list problem... erik John PS. Sample message included in case it is just me. Things were fine until a half an hour ago... X-Apparently-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] via web3602; 19 May 2001 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 15: 40 Received: from murphy.debian.org (216.234.231.6) by mta506.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2001 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 495 invoked by uid 38); 19 May 2001 22:40:09 - X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 307 invoked from network); 19 May 2001 22:40:03 - Received: from klecker.debian.org ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 19 May 2001 22:40:03 - Received: from jengate.thur.de [217.17.193.190] (root) by klecker.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 151FOB-0008G9-00; Sat, 19 May 2001 15:40:00 -0700 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by jengate.thur.de (8.11.3/8.10.1) with UUCP id f4JMdn611647 for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Sun, 20 May 2001 00:39:49 +0200 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by einstein.holzland.thur.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id OAA02253 for debian-user@lists.debian.org; Sat, 19 May 2001 14:13:14 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: einstein.holzland.thur.de: news set sender to news using -f From: Jens Müller [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Newsgroups: de.sci.informatik.misc Subject: Re: Pascal Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 13:42:58 +0200 Organization: eNode Internet Services GbR Lines: 14 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 990273060 05 24167 Y6plSn5VbVAgED 010519 11:51:00 X-Complaints-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.22.0 X-Korrnews: Used To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Resent-Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: debian-user@lists.debian.org archive/latest/149385 X-Loop: debian-user@lists.debian.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dixit Frank Homann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Versuch's mal unter www.dokuwelt.de Frank www.fhworld.de Hallo Leute, Lern bitte quoten und pack Deine Werbung in eine Signatur. -- The fact that he relies on facts - says things that are not factual - are going to undermine his campaign. - George Walker Bush in New York Times, March 4, 2000 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- All warfare is based on deception. --Sun Tzu [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.johnwilley.com/ [horribly under construction, still] [No longer under construction, now intentionally bad as an example to my web design students. See it improve as the quarter progresses.] (C) 2001 John Randolph Willey _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My favorite German post
John Willey wrote: I think I learned something from the recent German crossover on this list. This message was especially useful: Re: Outlook, die Schweinepest des Internets My German is terrible/nonexistent, but I like to think that this translates as: Outlook, the swine-pest of the Internet Still true, even if it isn't, ya know? actually I think it's a combined english german message, it starts with english then drifts into german, here's the same message divided into english and german parts (using !): Re: Outlook, die! Schweinepest des Internets erik
Re: lprng problem. Problem Solved :-)
Joel Mayes wrote: On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 11:17:18AM -0500, Dana J . Laude wrote: On Sat, 19 May 2001 00:22:35 Joel Mayes wrote: Thanks to everyone who responded, both on and off list, I've installed CUPS and everything is now A-KO Did you happen to use the debian packages, or did you try the ones from cups.org? I tried the .deb from cups.org, although it seems you have to pay for canon printer support. Dana G'day Dana I used to Deb packages, cupsys cupsys-clients, I thinks you might be right about having to pay for Canon printer support, I can't find a driver for one anywhere in the /usr/lib/cups or /usr/share/cups directories, You get Epson drivers and HP drivers, and a couple of generic drivers but no Canon. At a guess I'd say this is probable 'cause Canon won't release specs for there printers. did you check the gimp-print (provides drivers for cups as well, not sure if it has drivers for cannon) erik
Re: Netscape , problem again...!
Steve Kieu wrote: Hi, Any one noticed the problem if using Netscape 4.77 (not sure for older version) browse this page http://download.cnet.com/ And sometime Netscape doesn't not display anything after loading a page for a while, for example if type http://www.slackware.com/ After a while it stop, document done!, and nothing is displayed. SOmetimes it works as normal. But if you type http://www.slackware.com/index.php it works. I noticed the same - in all cases I've seen so far it helped when I turned off javascript (or java), it happens in both linux and windows versions of netscape... if you need javascaipt you have to restart browser. erik
Re: for i in *
Hans wrote: I still don't understand the proper syntax for this: I want to process multiple files, e.g. symlinking a bunch or converting graphics. for i in *;do 'ln -s $i /home/newdir/$i';done you got some responses already but here's some more info: to see how quotes work: export VAR='something' echo 'single quotes $VAR' echo double quotes $VAR echo `echo this is backtick talking` so in your example above the $i stays $i. Of course, you don't need quotes there at all... erik
files disappearing??? apt-get fun?
not sure how it happened but this is second time that I have found out files missing on my computer, I think it's after upgrade but can't be sure. some time ago I suddenly found out that xvncviewer file is no longer on my computer, it was still listed in locate output and xvncviewer package was installed but the program itself was gone. reinstalling xvncviewer worked, I didn't find anything else missing. today same thing happened with /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm* files (they were in locate output, the package was listed as installed but the files were not there!) not sure if there's anything else missing - is there any way to easily check the integrity of debian system (whether the files that system thinks are installed are really there)? I used apt-get and aptitude (didn't find similar bug for apt, aptitude or dpkg). any ideas? TIA erik
cd writer setup questions (SONY CRX175A2)
system: debian unstable, kernel 2.4.17 I just installed Sony CRX175A2 CD-r/RW drive (atapi/eide internal drive). It looks like the drive is almost properly recognized, dmesg contains: hdc: SONY CD-RW CRX175E2, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive Note that there is E instead of A in model number and it says CD/DVD ROM drive while my drive is actually CD-R/RW (no DVD), not sure if that's relevant. Now when I try to mount a data cd or play music cd it says that there is no media in the drive (first command is with data CD in the drive, second command is with the music CD in drive): jojda:/home/erik# mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: No medium found jojda:/home/erik# workbone Ú´ number pad ÿ ³ ³ ³þþ|||o³ ³ ³ ³|p##o|³ ³ ³ ³pp..oo³ ³ ³ ³ quit ?³ ³ ³ ÀÄÄÙ /dev/cdrom: No medium found I tried to use the SCSI emulation but cannot find the docs how to do it, I enabled the drivers, the kernel help mentions that there has to be a kernel option hdc=scsi, but when I included this option in lilo (in append) it errored out. line from /etc/lilo.conf append = hdc=scsi error message: Kernel command line: auto BOOT_IMAGE=linux ro root=304 hdc=scsi ide_setup: hdc=scsi -- BAD OPTION and the /dev/scd0 does not work: jojda:/home/erik# mount /dev/scd0 /mnt mount: /dev/scd0 is not a valid block device I've read The Linux CD-ROM HOWTO and CD-Writing HOWTO but it only mentions scsi emulation with no real info on how to set it up. here's the list of modules I have currently loaded jojda:/home/erik# lsmod Module Size Used byNot tainted ide-cd 26272 0 (autoclean) isofs 24224 0 (autoclean) inflate_fs 17760 0 (autoclean) [isofs] sg 28068 0 (autoclean) (unused) sr_mod 11800 0 (autoclean) (unused) scsi_mod 84648 2 (autoclean) [sg sr_mod] cdrom 28384 0 (autoclean) [ide-cd sr_mod] tdfx 34904 1 ipt_MASQUERADE 1216 1 (autoclean) iptable_nat12724 0 (autoclean) [ipt_MASQUERADE] ip_conntrack 12588 1 (autoclean) [ipt_MASQUERADE iptable_nat] parport_pc 14244 1 (autoclean) lp 6624 0 (autoclean) parport23456 1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp] snd-seq-midi3136 0 (autoclean) (unused) snd-synth-emu8000 4740 0 (autoclean) (unused) snd-synth-emux 22656 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-emu8000] snd-seq-virmidi 2504 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-emux] snd-util-mem1104 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-emu8000 snd-synth-emux] snd-synth-opl3 8348 0 (autoclean) (unused) snd-seq-instr 4048 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-opl3] snd-seq-midi-emul 4176 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-emux snd-synth-opl3] snd-ainstr-fm 1444 0 (autoclean) [snd-synth-opl3] snd-seq-oss22624 0 (unused) snd-seq-midi-event 2584 0 [snd-seq-midi snd-seq-virmidi snd-seq-oss] snd-seq35628 2 [snd-seq-midi snd-synth-emux snd-seq-virmidi snd-synth-opl3 snd-seq-instr snd-seq-midi-emul snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event] snd-pcm-oss34944 0 (unused) snd-mixer-oss 8864 0 [snd-pcm-oss] snd-card-sbawe 5920 0 snd-sb16-dsp5120 0 [snd-card-sbawe] snd-pcm45664 0 [snd-pcm-oss snd-sb16-dsp] snd-sb16-csp 15200 0 [snd-card-sbawe] snd-sb-common 5848 0 [snd-card-sbawe snd-sb16-dsp snd-sb16-csp] snd-opl35120 0 [snd-synth-opl3 snd-card-sbawe] snd-hwdep 3584 0 [snd-sb16-csp snd-opl3] snd-timer 9760 0 [snd-seq snd-pcm snd-opl3] snd-emu800010336 0 [snd-synth-emu8000 snd-card-sbawe] snd-mpu401-uart 2448 0 [snd-card-sbawe snd-sb16-dsp] snd-rawmidi11392 0 [snd-seq-midi snd-seq-virmidi snd-mpu401-uart] snd-seq-device 3728 0 [snd-seq-midi snd-synth-emu8000 snd-synth-emux snd-synth-opl3 snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-opl3 snd-emu8000 snd-rawmidi] snd23304 0 [snd-seq-midi snd-synth-emux snd-seq-virmidi snd-util-mem snd-synth-opl3 snd-seq-instr snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-card-sbawe snd-sb16-dsp snd-pcm snd-sb16-csp snd-sb-common snd-opl3 snd-hwdep snd-timer snd-emu8000 snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device] soundcore
Re: cd writer setup questions (SONY CRX175A2)
Tim Dijkstra wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:53:19 -0800 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to use the SCSI emulation but cannot find the docs how to do it, I enabled the drivers, the kernel help mentions that there has to be a kernel option hdc=scsi, but when I included this option in lilo (in append) it errored out. line from /etc/lilo.conf append = hdc=scsi I think it has to be: append = hdc=ide-scsi Hope that helps a bit, thanks, it helps a bit (the drive doesn't work anyway though, it always says there's no media, both under linux and windows) where did you find this information? I've read the howtos (cd writing and cd rom, the help in linux kernel says hdc=scsi (I guess I should file a bug)... erik
CDROM: hdc: lost interrupt (how to troubleshoot?)
when I try to rip the CD I get the following messages and the ripping is VERY slow (few hours per one song): Mar 24 04:10:09 localhost kernel: hdc: lost interrupt system: debian unstable, kernel 2.4.17 cdrom (burner) /dev/hdc TDK CDRW321040B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive jojda:/home/erik# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 120626 XT-PIC timer 1: 1818 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5:436 XT-PIC SoundBlaster 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10:135 XT-PIC eth1 11:963 XT-PIC eth0 12: 20591 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 21722 XT-PIC ide0 15: 11763 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 120587 ERR: 0 the situation is the same regardless of whether I use scsi emulation or not. what's even more strange is that after I try to rip the audio CD I cannot mount the data CD anymore. I get the following message: jojda:/home/erik# mount /dev/hdc /mnt/cd /dev/hdc: Input/output error mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only /dev/hdc: Input/output error mount: you must specify the filesystem type jojda:/home/erik# if I specify file system type it complains again: jojda:/home/erik# mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt/cd mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, or too many mounted file systems however if I try to mount it before I rip anything it works OK. any ideas? TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CDROM: hdc: lost interrupt (how to troubleshoot?)
one more relevant fact: data CD can be read without problems and it seems fairly fast (whole CD is read in few minutes), no 'lost interrupt' or other messages in syslog. erik Erik Steffl wrote: when I try to rip the CD I get the following messages and the ripping is VERY slow (few hours per one song): Mar 24 04:10:09 localhost kernel: hdc: lost interrupt system: debian unstable, kernel 2.4.17 cdrom (burner) /dev/hdc TDK CDRW321040B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive jojda:/home/erik# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 120626 XT-PIC timer 1: 1818 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5:436 XT-PIC SoundBlaster 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10:135 XT-PIC eth1 11:963 XT-PIC eth0 12: 20591 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 21722 XT-PIC ide0 15: 11763 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 120587 ERR: 0 the situation is the same regardless of whether I use scsi emulation or not. what's even more strange is that after I try to rip the audio CD I cannot mount the data CD anymore. I get the following message: jojda:/home/erik# mount /dev/hdc /mnt/cd /dev/hdc: Input/output error mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only /dev/hdc: Input/output error mount: you must specify the filesystem type jojda:/home/erik# if I specify file system type it complains again: jojda:/home/erik# mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt/cd mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, or too many mounted file systems however if I try to mount it before I rip anything it works OK. any ideas? TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CDROM: hdc: lost interrupt (how to troubleshoot?)
Brooks R. Robinson wrote:
| when I try to rip the CD I get the following messages and the ripping
| is VERY slow (few hours per one song):
|
| Mar 24 04:10:09 localhost kernel: hdc: lost interrupt
| the situation is the same regardless of whether I use scsi emulation
| or not.
Greetings,
I had the same problem a few months ago. The only thing that I found
was
that *perhaps* the hard drive controller was bad. I kept swapping drives
around to different channels and it turned out that my secondary controller
always seemed to be the culprit, not the drive, not the cable, not the OS.
I ended up purchasing a Maxtor PCI ATA/IDE/100 card, and everything is
working now. So, you might try re-cabling to see if it helps.
it works under windows, I should have tried it before but somehow I
didn't. But after I sent the message you replied to I booted windows and
ripped a song (I don't have a space for a whole album under windows) and
it was ripped ok (fast), it created wav file that sounds the same (as
far as I can tell) as CD itself.
but I have found another strange behaviour:
I can copy the whole data CD, no problems (fast, no errors, no
messages in syslog). However when I run either of the following:
cat /dev/hdc |od
hdparam -t /dev/hdc
the program (cat or hdparm) runs for awhile (5-10s) but then freezes
(cannot even be kill-9-ed, which means that it's stuck in system call, I
guess) and there are following messages in syslog (repeated over and
over, even after shutdown prints out the Power down message, at that
time they are displayed on the console):
...
Mar 25 01:24:49 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:49 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:52 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:52 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 16:00
(hdc), sector 3276
...
not sure how to do the same test under windows to see if that would
work.
erik
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CDROM: hdc: lost interrupt (how to troubleshoot?)
Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 11:49:44AM -0800, Erik Steffl wrote:
[[ snip ]]
I can copy the whole data CD, no problems (fast, no errors, no
messages in syslog). However when I run either of the following:
cat /dev/hdc |od
hdparam -t /dev/hdc
the program (cat or hdparm) runs for awhile (5-10s) but then freezes
(cannot even be kill-9-ed, which means that it's stuck in system call, I
guess) and there are following messages in syslog (repeated over and
over, even after shutdown prints out the Power down message, at that
time they are displayed on the console):
...
Mar 25 01:24:49 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:49 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:52 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:52 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: status=0x51
{ DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: cdrom_decode_status: error=0x30
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: hdc: ATAPI reset complete
Mar 25 01:24:55 localhost kernel: end_request: I/O error, dev 16:00
(hdc), sector 3276
...
You don't mention which kernel you're running...
2.4.17, it was in original message but got lost in the subsequent
messages...
In your kernel config, what is the setting of CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE?
From 2.4.18's Configure.help:
Use multi-mode by default
CONFIG_IDEDISK_MULTI_MODE
If you get this error, try to say Y here:
hda: set_multmode: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
hda: set_multmode: error=0x04 { DriveStatusError }
If in doubt, say N.
thanks a lot, it might be relevant (I'll try that), I have more
detials on the problem described above:
those particular errors occur only when the certain part of data CD is
read (each data CD I tried so far), the 'bad' part is somewhere between
1.6 MB and 200 MB - i.e. I can read beginning of the CD and most of the
rest. When I mount data CD it works fine (everything can be read) so the
'bad' part might be simply feature of the file system used (iso9660).
Anybody has more insight?
TIA,
erik
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: installing oracle 9i
Jason Majors wrote: Where I work we need to use oracle 9i (I'm pushing for mySQL conversion) on Linux boxes to communicate with oracle 8i on a Solaris box. Our DBA tried to do the 9i install (when he looked for a d drive I got scared), and keeps having problems that he won't share with the rest of us. He talked to oracle support and they said that since debian doesn't have a bourne shell, it won't install and that they can't help, because they only support Redhat and SuSE. Has anybody here installed oracle successfully on Debian? If so can you give me details of the special steps you had to take? Or if there's a better lib that will allow C++ programs on a Debian box access an oracle server on a solaris box using Pro/C and whatever protocol oracle uses for select/update/insert/etc. commands from C code, can somebody give me some tips on that? Unfortunately, I'm database illiterate, so I don't know any more about our needs than what I said here. I kinda like otl http://www.geocities.com/skuchin/otl/home.htm (for C++) you still need oracle libraries installed (not sure what else). I haven't used it much so I don't know how stable it is but as far as I can tell it is a *LOT* better than ProC (which is a sorry piece of excuse for a db library/preprocessor). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cdrom: lost interrupt
system: hdc: TDK CDRW321040B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive Linux jojda 2.4.17 #1 Wed Mar 13 01:33:28 PST 2002 i686 unknown debian unstable the cdrom is a cd r/rw writer problem: when I try to rip the audio it doesn't work much (it works VERY slowly, hours per songs) and I get the following messages in /var/log/syslog: Mar 29 00:47:12 localhost kernel: hdc: lost interrupt what works: reading raw cd using cat /dev/cdrom|od (it cannot read certain part of CD but I guess that's the feature of filesystem) reading data CDs, when I mount data CD I can read it to my heart content (and more) writing CD: so far I only tried to burn one data CD which worked without any problems, CD is readable. other info: the same problem occurs with another CD-ROM drive and also when I connect cdrom to ide0 (as slave, /dev/hdb). Hardrive connected to both ide0 and ide1 works without any problems. I also tried to turn off dma and 32 bit access, no change. I don't see any IRQ conflict, ide1 is on 15, nothing else is on 15 (as listed by BIOS and /proc/interrupts). Is it possible that it's a HW problem considering that data cd reading and buring works? I mean those use IRQs too (and I see the numbers rising when I read data CD and cat /proc/interrupts). Could it be some kernel problem? I mean how could the interrupt be lost when trying to read audio but not when reading data? I don't really know what the difference is, anybody can shed some light on this? BTW cd ripping works fine under windows, even though I've read that it doesn't mean much 'cause windows often pools hw instead of using IRQ. The web search revealed nothing interesting, only that most people who have lost interrupt problem can't even mount the CD. This is what /proc/interrupts says (I haven't used the CD since I rebooted and I cannot use it now since there's no CD inside and I am not around): jojda:/home/erik# cat /proc/interrupts CPU0 0: 15518706 XT-PIC timer 1: 8968 XT-PIC keyboard 2: 0 XT-PIC cascade 5: 0 XT-PIC SoundBlaster 8: 1 XT-PIC rtc 9: 0 XT-PIC usb-uhci, usb-uhci 10: 33210 XT-PIC eth1 11: 530613 XT-PIC eth0 12: 39386 XT-PIC PS/2 Mouse 14: 593071 XT-PIC ide0 15: 21 XT-PIC ide1 NMI: 0 LOC: 15518583 ERR: 0 TIA! erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: multimedia keyboard
Patrik Modesto wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 03:48:50PM +0100, Mirek Dobsicek wrote: Hi all, I'd like to ask if is it good idea to buy a multimedia keyboard? Can the extra keys be used in X as they are in windoze? (eg. slide volume in xmms ... etc.) I have some Logitech multimedia keyboard and works well with xmms. 1) find the keycodes for the new keys 2) make your home xmodmap file (mine is bellow) 3) xmodmap the file 4) bind the new keys. I use sawfish, but it should works with others WM with X 4.x you probably don't even need xmodmap, just use the following settings in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 Section InputDevice Identifier Logitech Cordless iTouch Driver keyboard Option CoreKeyboard Option XkbRules xfree86 # erik: default commented out: Option XkbModel pc104 Option XkbModel logicordless Option XkbLayout us EndSection depending on exact version of logitech keyboard you might need different XkbModel (or you might still need xmodmap), /etc/X11/xkb files for more info (it looks like rules/xfree86 is the most interesting one, also check symbols/inet) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is Mozilla mail brian dead? SOLVED
Patrick Kirk wrote: Unless you told Mozilla in the first get messages to save the password you gave, you will be asked to give it each time you want to access the mailbox. -- It doesn't ask for a password when I click get messages. I think its best just assume that Moz can't cope with IMAP on localhost and stick with Evolution. it definitely works, I have just tried it, I too have imap on localhost (cyrus), I use the following settings: in Edit|Mail Newsgroups Account Settings... I have an account (created using Add Account button) that has following Settings under Server settings section: Server Type: IMAP Mail Server (this one is set during account cretion, it is not possible to change it later) Server Name: localhost User Name: whatever is your username Port: 993 (was set automatically when I checked the Use Secure connection (SSL)) Use secure connection checked (uncheck if you don't use SSL) Check for new mail at startup checked Check for new messages every 10 minutes checked ... etc. IMAP on localhost is handled just like any other IMAP server, as long as the server that you specify in Server name is found it tries to connect to it, it can be 127.0.0.1, your IP, the name of your machine etc... (and it's the same for any other host name or IP number, there's no difference in how localhost is treated). IIRC the mail client asked for password and now remembers it (because I checked the box when it asked before), if the password were to change it would say authentification error and ask for password again. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where to install openoffice
martin f krafft wrote:
hi folks,
i've always installed OpenOffice or StarOffice or whatever into
/usr/local/apps/{open,s}office or /usr/local/lib/{open,s}office,
depending on whether the day was even or odd -- as in, there was no
pattern. now i am installing a couple of new systems and would like to
do it right.
it seems that these software packages should install into
/opt/{open,s}office to keep the system in accordance with the FHS.
however, there's something deep inside me speaking against /opt at the
top of the filesystem hierarchy. i know it's a standard but i don't
like it as i believe that these packages *should* really sit under
/usr/local. but /usr/local/lib and /usr/local/apps are also wrong.
debian does not control /opt and /opt is not part of debian, which is
a good thing. despite openoffice not being part of debian, i would
still like for it to be integrated into the system in a logical way.
so where does it go? /usr/local/opt/{open,s}office?
/usr/local/{open,s}office?
please don't let this become a lengthy discussion, only post if you
know the FHS inside out or you know the answer exactly. i don't want
opinions (sorry if this sounds arrogant).
IMO you don't need to know FHS inside out, the crucial part is that
add on packages should go into /opt. so that's where openoffice and
other packages that are not debian packages should go.
to make it easier to set the PATH etc. I like using stow to create
(AND manage) links from /opt/package/* to /usr/local/*
that kind of setup is fairly clean, is in accordance with FHS, it's
easy to manage and programs are easy to access (all add-on programs are
accessbinle via links in /usr/local/bin, but since they are links it's
clear which package they are part of).
erik
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Otazka
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dobry den. Mam zaujem si nainstalovat Debian do pocitaca ale chcem tam mat aj windows xp profesional ktory mam taktiez uz zakupeny. Akym stylom to treba instalovat tak aby tam boli obidva systemy? ktory prvy a ktory druhy? ja mam uz v notebooku nainstalovanu verziu debian gnu/linux a potrebujem tam dostat este ten windows xp profesional. Co mam teraz spravit? riaditel asks how to install both win xp pro and debian on same computer riaditel: this is english language mailing list so you'd get a lot more responses if you'd write in english (toto je anglicky hovoriaci mailing list, dostal by si o dost viac odpovedi keby si komunikoval po anglicky) not sure how to make win wp stop fighting, I resolved the issue by installing linux on hdc (c:) and set lilo so that it tricks win xp into thinking d: is c: so it happily sits on D: and think it has disk C: available (so whatever it does to MDR etc. is not a problem for LILO). this is LILO entry for windows: other = /dev/hdb2 label = win boot-as = 0x80 # pretend to be C: you can do similar trick using grub, I just don't know how:-) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PCI IDE controller - how to make it work?
I just got PCI IDE controller and have troubles making it work with linux (2.4.18). the docs in linux/Documentation/ide.txt say that linux will probe for ide devices that have device files in /dev or that I can force it to probe using ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 (kernel option). So I thought it should almost work by itself but it doesn't. Here's what I did: in /etc/lilo.conf, I tried these (and some other) variations: append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide3=0x168,0x36e,11 hdg=cdrom append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide3=0x168,0x36e append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee ide3=0x168,0x36e I also tried it without append and it wasn't recognized at all (ide2, ide3 wasn't mentioned anywhere during boot and it, of course, didn't work either). ide.txt says that the above addresses usually work but the PCI controller setup (I can enter during boot) shows different addresses, those are also listed in /proc/ioports: cc00-cc07 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d000-d003 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d400-d407 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d800-d803 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 dc00-dc0f : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 should I use these in kernel line? which ones? the output during boot shows that the kernel options are used: Kernel command line: auto BOOT_IMAGE=linux ro root=304 ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide3= 0x168,0x36e,11 hdg=cdrom ide_setup: ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide_setup: ide3=0x168,0x36e,11 ide_setup: hdg=cdrom but the ide2 and 3 do not work: Uniform Multi-Platform E-IDE driver Revision: 6.31 ide: Assuming 33MHz system bus speed for PIO modes; override with idebus=xx VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 39 VP_IDE: chipset revision 6 VP_IDE: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later VP_IDE: VIA vt82c686b (rev 40) IDE UDMA100 controller on pci00:07.1 ide0: BM-DMA at 0xc000-0xc007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA ide1: BM-DMA at 0xc008-0xc00f, BIOS settings: hdc:pio, hdd:pio hda: WDC AC22000L, ATA DISK drive hdb: Maxtor 94098U8, ATA DISK drive hdg: no response (status = 0xff), resetting drive hdg: no response (status = 0xff) hdg: ATAPI cdrom (?) ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 ide3 at 0x168-0x16f,0x36e on irq 11 hda: 3907008 sectors (2000 MB) w/256KiB Cache, CHS=969/64/63, UDMA(33) hdb: 80041248 sectors (40981 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=79406/16/63, UDMA(66) Partition check: hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 hda4 hdb: [PTBL] [4982/255/63] hdb1 hdb5 hdb6 hdb7 hdb2 I thought that the problem might be shared interrupt (11 is also used by usb ports) but it doesn't work even when I disable USB in BIOS setup. When I connect everything to PCI controller and disable the ide on motherboard the computer starts booting, the disks show just like they should (hda, hdb for HD, hdc for cdrom), the lilo boots kernel but for some reason kernel doesn't want to mount root file system, it's excuse being that root device 304 was not found... what does that mean? I thought that as long as it's on the same ide (ide0) and same position (master) it shoudl work. another confusing thing is that the pci ide controller is listed as follows in lspci: 00:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Artop Electronic Corp: Unknown device 0009 (rev 02) what could that mean? the motherboard is using VIA chipset, here's the full output of lspci: jojda:/home/erik# lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C693A/694x [Apollo PRO133x] (rev c4) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C598/694x [Apollo MVP3/Pro133x AGP] 00:07.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super South] (rev 40) 00:07.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. Bus Master IDE (rev 06) 00:07.4 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super ACPI] (rev 40) 00:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Artop Electronic Corp: Unknown device 0009 (rev 02) 00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: D-Link System Inc RTL8139 Ethernet (rev 10) 00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139 (rev 10) 00:0f.0 VGA compatible controller: 3Dfx Interactive, Inc. Voodoo 3 (rev 01) any ideas on how to make it work? TIA! erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cdrecord/burn problem
ktb wrote: My burner used to work fine until I installed woody. I've been searching the net and found the suggestion to use the -dao switch. That didn't help. I'm running a 2.4.18 kernel. Here is the output of - which kernel you used when it worked? I also have some funny problem with cdrom burner (I cannot rip audio CDs, everything else works), which I didn't have long time ago (different kernel, different motherboard so I am not sure who to blame:-) # cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord 1.10 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2001 Jörg Schilling Linux sg driver version: 3.1.22 Using libscg version 'schily-0.5' scsibus0: 0,0,0 0) 'SONY' 'CD-RW CRX0811 ' 'MYS2' Removable CD-ROM Here is a snip of what I get when I run - # cdrecord -v speed=4 dev=0,0,0 woody_netinst-20020215-i386.iso Starting to write CD/DVD at speed 4 in write mode for single session. Last chance to quit, starting real write in 0 seconds. Operation starts. Waiting for reader process to fill input buffer ... input buffer ready. Performing OPC... Starting new track at sector: 0 Track 01: 0 of 29 MB written.cdrecord: Input/output error. write_g1: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 2A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 1F 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 24 00 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x24 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in cdb) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 0.002s timeout 40s write track data: error after 0 bytes Sense Bytes: 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Writing time:5.031s Fixating... cdrecord: Input/output error. close track/session: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 5B 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 72 04 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x72 Qual 0x04 (empty or partially written reserved track) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 0.001s timeout 480s cmd finished after 0.001s timeout 480s Fixating time:0.002s cdrecord: fifo had 64 puts and 1 gets. cdrecord: fifo was 0 times empty and 0 times full, min fill was 100%. what does /var/log/syslog say? do you have all the required modules? you need something like this: jojda:/home/erik# cat /etc/modutils/erik.cdrom # start of /etc/modutils/erik.cdrom # erik: drivers that make the scsi emulation work (for ide cd writer) # from CD-Writing-HOWTO.html # old, home made line: alias block-major-11 ide-scsi options ide-cd ignore=hdb# tell the ide-cd module to ignore hdb alias scd0 sr_mod# load sr_mod upon access of scd0 pre-install sg modprobe ide-scsi # load ide-scsi before sg pre-install sr_mod modprobe ide-scsi # load ide-scsi before sr_mod pre-install ide-scsi modprobe ide-cd # load ide-cd before ide-scsi # end of /etc/modutils/erik.cdrom and in /etc/lilo.conf: append = hdc=ide-scsi I guess you have it set up but one or another part is probably missing/not working... might be one of the kernel modules... messages in syslog should be helpful... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Solved but some Qs remain WAS: Re: PCI IDE controller - how to make it work?
Jerome Acks Jr wrote: On Wed, Apr 24, 2002 at 12:59:07PM -0700, Erik Steffl wrote: I just got PCI IDE controller and have troubles making it work with linux (2.4.18). the docs in linux/Documentation/ide.txt say that linux will probe for ide devices that have device files in /dev or that I can force it to probe using ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 (kernel option). So I thought it should almost work by itself but it doesn't. Here's what I did: in /etc/lilo.conf, I tried these (and some other) variations: append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide3=0x168,0x36e,11 hdg=cdrom append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee,11 ide3=0x168,0x36e append = ide2=0x1e8,0x3ee ide3=0x168,0x36e Just some guessing: From below it looks like hardware probing is finding something. Maybe try mounting devfs on /dev and then use devfs naming conventions to access the new ide devices rather than specifying ports in append. I was trying various things and what finally helped was specifying the addresses from /proc/ioports in append line: this is what linux thinks it has (from /proc/ioports): cc00-cc07 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d000-d003 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d400-d407 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 d800-d803 : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 dc00-dc0f : Artop Electronic Corp ATP865 and this is append line from /etc/lilo.conf that worked: append = ide2=0xcc00,0xd000 ide3=0xd400,0xd800 what I don't understand why would linux find it out (without any append line), after all it found the device, the ioports, why doesn't it use it? could it be related that it thinks it's scsi storage device? from lspci output: 00:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Artop Electronic Corp: Unknown device 0009 (rev 02) yet it works as IDE... (yes, I know I should use ide-scsi for most work with cd burner but still, lspci doesn't have anything to do with drivers - why does it think it's scsi device?) [snip] When I connect everything to PCI controller and disable the ide on motherboard the computer starts booting, the disks show just like they should (hda, hdb for HD, hdc for cdrom), the lilo boots kernel but for some reason kernel doesn't want to mount root file system, it's excuse being that root device 304 was not found... what does that mean? I This is saying it can't find the root device on ide0. If you switch your hardware from ide0 to new PCI controller, I thing you will need to reconfigure lilo to boot from that device or at least rerun lilo. lilo booted ok, it's just that kernel couldn't find root file system (device 304). since I disabled internal ide the pci board became ide0 and ide1, lilo even booted properly... ??? thanks! erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
woody install problems
I used the woody_netinst-20020215-i386.iso and weverything worked fine until the point when the basic system configuration started - I believe that's part of the base, nothing to do with woody_netinst-20020215-i386.iso itself. the problem is that at the point when the timezone and passwords are configured the install script (IIRC it was basic-config) went into neverending loop of configuring the time-zone and passwords over and over... this is how the installation went: boot the cd: ok setup disk: ok setup kernel drivers: ok setup network: ok download base and some other stuff: ok reboot: ok at this point the base-config executes all the scripts in /tmp/base-config-pid (pid is the pid of base-config), it's a simple loop executing all the programs in /tmp/base-config-pid, two of them being NNtimezone and NNpasswords (I don't remember exact names, NN stands for two digits) and these two are executed over and over... the system is working but not completely configured, e.g. the /apt/sources.list is empty (I think the default is not empty, even though it's a long time since I installed debian) etc. I didn't see anything related to this on the list - is this a known problem? I am not sure how to search the bug database (I checked package 'base'). Any ideas? TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
Is it possible to make ATI proprietary driver fglrx work with the latest xorg packages? I installed fglrx packages (build the kernel module etc.) but it doesn't seem to accept xorg 7: (II) fglrx(0): UMM Bus area: 0xd0acb000 (size=0x07535000) (II) fglrx(0): UMM area: 0xd0acb000 (size=0x07535000) (II) fglrx(0): driver needs X.org 6.8.x.y with x.y = 99.8 (II) fglrx(0): detected X.org 7.0.0.0 (II) Loading extension ATIFGLRXDRI (II) fglrx(0): doing DRIScreenInit drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0 drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: Open failed drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0 drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: Open failed [drm] failed to load kernel module fglrx (II) fglrx(0): [drm] drmOpen failed (EE) fglrx(0): DRIScreenInit failed! (WW) fglrx(0): *** (WW) fglrx(0): * DRI initialization failed! * (WW) fglrx(0): * (maybe driver kernel module missing or bad) * (WW) fglrx(0): * 2D acceleraton available (MMIO) * (WW) fglrx(0): * no 3D acceleration available* (WW) fglrx(0): * * does it mean it's not going to work until ATI releases a new driver with support for xorg 7? Anybody had any success with the free driver (it has at least some 3D experimental features). relevant packages: ii fglrx-control 8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-driver8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-driver-dev8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-kernel-2.6.15jojda8.24.8-1+jojda.0 ii fglrx-kernel-src8.24.8-1 ii xserver-xorg7.0.22 TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
thanks, seems like changing kernel config helped, still no cigar though, xorg log says: (II) fglrx(0): DRI initialization successfull! and lsmod confirms that fglrx is loaded but then fglrxinfo says: display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.4.1) despite the fact the ldd confirms that /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 is used which is a diversion by fglrx-driver to: /usr/lib/fglrx/diversions/libGL.so.1 and the openGL programs are slow so I'm pretty sure software rendering is used. any ideas where to go from here? Would you (or somebody else) mind posting relevant parts of xorg.conf (and perhaps kernel but I guess I have that part working since the kernel module is loaded) TIA erik Richard wrote: On 19/06/06, Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to make ATI proprietary driver fglrx work with the latest xorg packages? I installed fglrx packages (build the kernel module etc.) but it doesn't seem to accept xorg 7: (II) fglrx(0): UMM Bus area: 0xd0acb000 (size=0x07535000) (II) fglrx(0): UMM area: 0xd0acb000 (size=0x07535000) (II) fglrx(0): driver needs X.org 6.8.x.y with x.y = 99.8 (II) fglrx(0): detected X.org 7.0.0.0 (II) Loading extension ATIFGLRXDRI (II) fglrx(0): doing DRIScreenInit drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0 drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: Open failed drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0 drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device) drmOpenDevice: Open failed [drm] failed to load kernel module fglrx (II) fglrx(0): [drm] drmOpen failed (EE) fglrx(0): DRIScreenInit failed! (WW) fglrx(0): *** (WW) fglrx(0): * DRI initialization failed! * (WW) fglrx(0): * (maybe driver kernel module missing or bad) * (WW) fglrx(0): * 2D acceleraton available (MMIO) * (WW) fglrx(0): * no 3D acceleration available* (WW) fglrx(0): * * does it mean it's not going to work until ATI releases a new driver with support for xorg 7? Anybody had any success with the free driver (it has at least some 3D experimental features). relevant packages: ii fglrx-control 8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-driver8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-driver-dev8.24.8-1 ii fglrx-kernel-2.6.15jojda8.24.8-1+jojda.0 ii fglrx-kernel-src8.24.8-1 ii xserver-xorg7.0.22 TIA, erik Hi Eric I also had a lot of trouble to get this going on debian ... it seems the fglrx driver doesn't like it when the kernel was compiled with including CONFIG_DRM=y and CONFIG_DRM_RADEON=y ... When you compiled this kernel-module you also have to modprobe this into the kernel modprobe fglrx ... when DRM was already compiled into the kernel this modprobe will fail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Determinate the directory whithin a script
Paolo Pantaleo wrote: 2006/6/18, Paolo Pantaleo [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have a script in something like /media/sda1/backup/script.sh since sda1 could be also sda2 or anything, I want to determintate at run-time what is the directory in which the script is located, how can I do? pwd doesn't work, since I cuold call the script from some other direcotry Thnx PAolo -- if you have a minute to spend please visit my photogrphy site: http://mypic.co.nr $0 is just the command line... maybe `pwd` + $0 could do the work... but not if the scipt is in the PATH... I can't use udev... but maybe I'll read something about it Well for now I will assume that the script is launched only from the directory in which it is located... it seems the easyer way. I don't think you can reliably figure out where the script was loaded from, after all it didn't even had to be loaded from file system. guess you know it but just in case: general practice is to put script in some bin dir (~/bin or /usr/local/bin or /opt/myVeryOwnBackupSystem-version/bin or something along those lines) and use a command line argument to specify directory to process (script.sh --dir /media/sda1/backup). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
Liam O'Toole wrote: On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:16:15 -0700 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to make ATI proprietary driver fglrx work with the latest xorg packages? Yes. I have fglrx working with xorg and the stock Debian 686 kernel in an up-to-date sid installation. ... The first thing you should do is ignore xorg and check whether the fglrx kernel module can be loaded. What does 'modprobe fglrx' tell you? I removed drm from kernel and now the module is loaded: jojda:/home/erik# lsmod | grep fglrx fglrx 462048 - and even xorg log indicates that everything works, at least I think that's what this message means: (II) fglrx(0): DRI initialization successfull! but it's still not working, fglrxinfo says: display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.4.1) any ideas? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
Liam O'Toole wrote: On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 06:19:38 -0700 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Liam O'Toole wrote: On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:16:15 -0700 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to make ATI proprietary driver fglrx work with the latest xorg packages? Yes. I have fglrx working with xorg and the stock Debian 686 kernel in an up-to-date sid installation. ... The first thing you should do is ignore xorg and check whether the fglrx kernel module can be loaded. What does 'modprobe fglrx' tell you? I removed drm from kernel and now the module is loaded: jojda:/home/erik# lsmod | grep fglrx fglrx 462048 - and even xorg log indicates that everything works, at least I think that's what this message means: (II) fglrx(0): DRI initialization successfull! but it's still not working, fglrxinfo says: display: :0.0 screen: 0 OpenGL vendor string: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.4.1) any ideas? erik Do you load the GLcore module explicitly in the Module section of xorg.conf? If so then remove that line. no I don't, here's the module section of my xorg.conf: Section Module # erik: does not exist: LoadGLcore Loadbitmap Loaddbe Loadddc # erik: nvidia doesn't use it: Load dri Loadextmod Loadfreetype # Load glx Loadint10 # erik: does not exist: Loadpex5 Loadrecord # erik: no symbols found: Load speedo Loadtype1 Loadvbe # erik: does not exist: Loadxie # erik: for ati radeon 9800 # This loads the miscellaneous extensions module, and disables # initialisation of the XFree86-DGA extension within that module. SubSection extmod Optionomit xfree86-dga # don't initialise the DGA extension EndSubSection # This loads the GLX module Loadglx # libglx.a Loaddri # libdri.a EndSection see anything suspicious? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SOLVED Re: xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
Liam O'Toole wrote: On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:04:58 -0700 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [SNIP] ... The next thing I would check is that various symlinks in /usr/lib/ point to the fglrx libraries rather than the mesa ones. You should at least look at /usr/lib/libGL.so* and /usr/lib/libGLcore.so*. The command 'strace fglrx' will help you to identify any others. I checked that before and it looks ok (diversion by fglrx-driver to: /usr/lib/fglrx/diversions/libGL.so.1.2) however I did strace fglrxinfo and here's what it revealed: open(/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri//fglrx_dri.so, O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) it indeed is not in that directory (it's in /usr/lib/dri/fglrx_dri.so). now imagine this, it turns out that ATI tools modified my /etc/profile (2005/07/13 or before): ### START ATI FGLRX ### ### Automatically modified by ATI Proprietary driver scripts ### Please do not modify between START ATI FGLRX and END ATI FGLRX ... doing nasty things with LD_LIBRARY_PATH, LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH which is why it didn't work. One simple command (unset LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH) and it works again. thanks a lot for the pointers! erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SOLVED Re: xorg 7 and ATI proprietary driver (fglrx)
Liam O'Toole wrote: On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:20:02 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [SNIP] Is there an ATI Debian package? Yes, but only in unstable. The packages of interest are fglrx-driver and fglrx-kernel-src. The latter can conveniently be built using module-assistant. I use these on my Thinkpad, although they can be a bit flaky. that's what I'm using but I think the ATI change in /etc/profile was from before, back from times when I used their rpm package (converted to deb) overall the quality of the driver and packaging is pretty sad, like freezing if you have more than one X server or not being able to get console back after X server exits, nasty behavior like writing into /etc/profile, aticonfig overwriting (and rearranging in weird ways) your xorg.conf (at least they create a backup) etc. Considering they could get people doing the stuff for free (there is an ongoing effort to create free drivers) it is kinda funny... ventlook how far we got since the days of free and pretty much perfect drivers for voodoo with openGL and everything/vent erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Xorg 7.0 and ATI working!
Bill Wohler wrote: In case there are still folks out there that like me have xserver-xorg 6.8 on hold because of the reports that X would freeze up if you had an ATI card, I'd like to report that all is well. I share the sentiments that the upgrade was a non-event for such a major upgrade (at least now that the problems exposed with the early reports have been fixed). I went into aptitude, unheld xorg-xserver, hit U, and then g. Although I was expecting to have to apt-get install -f a few times, I didn't have to run it once! I have: IBM ThinkPad t40p ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R250 Lf [FireGL 9000] (rev 02) Debian etch I haven't seen any strange behavior in a few days now. I believe I read that the ATI fixes were applied to Xorg 7.1, but it appears that the these fixes were also applied to xserver-xorg-video-ati 6.5.8.0-1 which is available to Debian users of Xorg 7.0. My thanks and appreciation go out to the X Strike Force. A couple of notes: 1. glxgears missing The fix was to install mesa-utils. do you have 3D hw acceleration working? I thought it's not working or VERY experimental in free ati driver 2. The courier fonts were ugly. The fix was to rebuild xorg.conf (I'm assuming with a proper font path). I did not have to resort to the workaround presented in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=367593 some of my fonts look prety ugly too, how did you figure out what the proper font path is? Whatever was there after dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg? TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Xorg 7.0 and ATI working!
Liam O'Toole wrote: On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 23:39:52 -0700 Erik Steffl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill Wohler wrote: [SNIP] 2. The courier fonts were ugly. The fix was to rebuild xorg.conf (I'm assuming with a proper font path). I did not have to resort to the workaround presented in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=367593 some of my fonts look prety ugly too, how did you figure out what the proper font path is? Whatever was there after dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg? TIA, erik Hi again, Erik. Fonts are looking pretty good here (deja-vu and msttcorefonts, with bitmap fonts enabled too). What problems are you having? pretty much everything looks ok except of fonts in fvwm - window titles, menus, fonts in pager. The menu and window titles look like really badly resized bitmap fonts (before xorg 7 upgrade they looked ok) this is the font specified in fvwm config: default: -adobe-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-12-* menu:-adobe-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-12-* the font in pager is too small for any font to appear good but I think it's somewhat worse than before pager font: -*-times-medium-r-*-*-*-80-*-*-*-*-*-* tried these in xfontsel and they still look pretty bad even though they don't have exactly same look as in fvwm (and there's no 80 size for times, only 120) these look like pretty common fonts, not sure what happened, they are not missing, just ugly. btw what's deja-vu? I assume it's a font or set of fonts but apt-cache found nothing thanks, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ATI Driver Installer ATI Installer Version: 8.27.10
Mitch wrote: On 08/09/06 00:12 AM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote: Hello, Has anyone tried the new ati driver installer. Here is what I did: Well now all I get is: Mesa GLX Indirect (*). Is there a step that I am missing ? I use those drivers on two machines. I build my modules with make-kpkg, but that's not important. The problem is that fglrx looks for dri drivers in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/fglrx_dri.so, but it doesn't get installed there. You'll find it in /usr/lib/dri. I'm pretty sure you'll need to mkdir that modules dir and then I just ln -s the dri dir. You can confirm this with 'setenv LIBGL_DEBUG verbose' (tcsh, translate to yours) before running glxinfo. BTW you can also strace fglrxinfo which will reveal what it's trying to open you can specify where openGL programs look for the driver (sh and derivates syntax): LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH=/usr/lib/dri export LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH for csh and derivates: setenv LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH /usr/lib/dri erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
drupal error: cannot instantiate xmlrpc_client (cron)
since latest upgrade of drupal I get the following error from Cron [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ -x /usr/share/drupal/scripts/cron.sh ] /usr/share/drupal/scripts/cron.sh: Fatal error: Cannot instantiate non-existent class: xmlrpc_client in /usr/share/drupal/modules/drupal.module on line 142 I suspect it has something to do with the xmlrpc security fix, anybody else seen it? Just asking before filing a bug report (don't want to file a bug report if it's something wrong on my end). BTW the error is in function that tries to ping the drupal directory server. TIA, erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gaim/gtk themes
Wayne Sitton wrote: I'm running etch,KDE, and Gaim. Problem is the incomming messages window, the text is too small to read. I've changed the type of gtk theme, and even increased the font size. But it increases the font size for everything but the incoming messages window. does anyone know how to increase the font size on the incoming messages. I looked at Gaim's website and followed their direction on how to change it, but once again it increased the size for everything but the incoming message window. which messages appear small? yours: you can set the font etc. in Tools | Preferences | Intrerface | Conversations | Message text, check the 'Send default formatting with outgoing messages' and use the dialog below it to set the font style/size etc. your buddy: not sure how to set default for that but you can ask it to ignore font sizes (which might or might not help) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: installation problems with SATA drives
SALAH NOURI wrote: Hi, did anybody figure out how to install debian on a machine with 2 or more SATA drives? i get the error no partitionable media when booting the installer with the default parameters. and booting with expert26 gives me no common cd-rom drive was detected. - make sure you have recent install, I think you need at least kernel 2.6.9 (or maybe higher, the early 2.6.x kernels didn't work) - you can choose SATA disks to appear as regular IDE disks (/dev/hd*) or SCSI disks (in kernel config: CONFIG_SCSI_SATA=y, plus module for your chipset (lspci should tell you what you have) and SCSI disk support) then check your boot messages, the disks should be recognized... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
drupal package status?
Any ideas what's the status of drupal package in debian? drupal 4.6.x is tagged pending (for about a year), maintainer said he has no time, drupal version 4.7.0 is out now but if there's no update it's going to be hard to update (drupal site recommends to upgrade to 4.7 only from 4.6) ? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian: abandon ship?
Jeronimo Pellegrini wrote: ... Windows may be not behave decently at all, but it sells as it is, and it's not only marketing. I can see some of the reasons: 1 - They do invest in their product, but thy'll target the users and do whatever they want.The UI, for example, that most hackers find terrible, works well for most clueless users. Microsoft gives people what they ... as far as I can tell that's not true. it doesn't work well, they cannot do basic stuff even after years of use - they just repeat few tasks they learned (talking about clueless users). I see them completely fooled by windows interface again and again... 2 - Development tools. This is how they built the empire. Don't exepct all developers to be brilliant. Build tools with graphical interfaces and a lot of automated stuff. No complexity -- languages like VB are just perfect for the person who just wants to see their Hello world program working. They won't understand too much about the underlying framework. These people will gradually move to making useful programs (well, if pople use them they're useful) in VB (or ASP, or wahtever). The point is: if you target the *good* developer, you won't sell too much. And if you don't sell a lot of compilers and devel tools, you won't have a lot of applications written for your OS (who's going to write the applications? You, alone?) Ironically, Microsoft has used the power of thousands of developers all over the world to build their Empire. Hm, suddenly Open Source comes to mind. Wow. Subtle. Efficient. People usually don't see this, but it's an absolutely important point. Let the clueless develop. They'll build an empire for you. consider how big the unix-side empire is (I mean the free software mostly), built using mostly vi/cc/make (with little marketing, compared to ms win). while people might be willng to code for windows for the money they don't have to be dragge to unix, in fact volunteers built unix(-like) environment (=linux, gnu and the rest). perhaps the underlying quality of system has something to do with it... Now... See that quality is not necessarily what people want. Maybe ease-of-use is a priority to them. most people are simply too passive to resist what's rammed down their throats. it doesn't have anything to do with properties/features of windows. example - at my job we use win nt workstations to connect to unix servers, therefore middle mouse button is fairly important (to paste selection). however I am probably the only person who has three button mouse, everybody else struggles with emulation, trying to click both buttons at the same time, loosing selection in the process... (they didn't even find that shift-ins pastes just like in the windows programs!) day after day after day... all while worshipping the god of blinking 12:00 not that this matters that much, I basically agree with all your points... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3dwm - how to make it do anything?
I installed 3dwm but I can't make it do anything (interesting). When I start the server it opens the window, it's completely black and stays the same, no matter which client I run (except of pick client, which displays three squares). shouldn't clock display clock? and vncclient display vnc? here are the packages that I installed: ii 3dwm-clock 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm apps ii 3dwm-csgclient 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm client ii 3dwm-geoclient 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm client ii 3dwm-pickclien 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm client ii 3dwm-server0.3.1-9Binary server daemon ii 3dwm-texclient 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm client ii 3dwm-vncclient 0.3.1-9A 3Dwm client this is on debian unstable... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
postfix cleanup stuck (cannot kill it)
it happened twice in last few weeks: the cleanup (part of postfix) eats up all the cpu cycles and cannot be killed (even with -9). I guess that means that it's stuck in system call - it looks like kernel problem. any ideas on what to do (well, I know I can reboot:-)? how to troubleshoot? this is debian unstable, postfix 1.1.7-7, kernel 2.4.18. this doesn't seem to be related to kernel upgrade (which I did long time ago), I am not even sure if it's postfix related, it seems like updated some part of postifx during may following messages in syslog might be related (other than I've found nothing suspicious): Jun 20 11:12:02 localhost postfix/smtpd[6575]: warning: premature end-of-input from public/cleanup socket while reading input attribute name Jun 20 11:12:02 localhost postfix/smtpd[6575]: fatal: unable to connect to the public cleanup service Jun 20 11:12:03 localhost postfix/master[505]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 6575 exit status 1 Jun 20 11:12:03 localhost postfix/master[505]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling there's no bug for this (in postfix package), should I file one - does it look like cleanup bug? or kernel bug? TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: postfix cleanup stuck (cannot kill it)
Erik Steffl wrote: it happened twice in last few weeks: the cleanup (part of postfix) eats up all the cpu cycles and cannot be killed (even with -9). I guess that means that it's stuck in system call - it looks like kernel problem. any ideas on what to do (well, I know I can reboot:-)? how to troubleshoot? this is debian unstable, postfix 1.1.7-7, kernel 2.4.18. this doesn't seem to be related to kernel upgrade (which I did long time ago), I am not even sure if it's postfix related, it seems like updated some part of postifx during may following messages in syslog might be related (other than I've found nothing suspicious): Jun 20 11:12:02 localhost postfix/smtpd[6575]: warning: premature end-of-input from public/cleanup socket while reading input attribute name Jun 20 11:12:02 localhost postfix/smtpd[6575]: fatal: unable to connect to the public cleanup service Jun 20 11:12:03 localhost postfix/master[505]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd pid 6575 exit status 1 Jun 20 11:12:03 localhost postfix/master[505]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup -- throttling there's no bug for this (in postfix package), should I file one - does it look like cleanup bug? or kernel bug? TIA now this is really strange - after few days of load 99% and not being able to interrupt cleanup (I attached gdb to it and hit ctrl-c) it was finally interrupted and now it's in: (gdb) where #0 0x401f82e4 in open () from /lib/libc.so.6 #1 0x4004354c in rewrite_clnt_stream () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-global.so.1 #2 0x40038151 in mail_stream_file () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-global.so.1 #3 0x0804be05 in dict_changed () #4 0x08049a65 in dict_changed () #5 0x40027b85 in _init () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-master.so.1 #6 0x40027ce1 in _init () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-master.so.1 #7 0x40051e05 in event_loop () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-util.so.1 #8 0x400286ce in single_server_main () from /usr/lib/libpostfix-master.so.1 #9 0x08049c4e in dict_changed () #10 0x4014e14f in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 (gdb) I guess that since it's still in open function of libc it was stuck in open system call? any ideas about what's going on? erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xorg in sid
Paul Scott wrote: I see that some xorg packages are now in sid. Are there enough packages to switch from xfree86? Are there any problems? the new open gl packages remove the old ones and thus whole bunch of programs: apt-get install libglu1-xorg (or x-window-system-core wich installs libglu1-xorg) and the following packages are removed (on my system, there are probably whole lot more): 3dwm-server amarok-engines amarok-xine armagetron audacity billard-gl bittornado-gui blender bzflag celestia-glut chromium chromium-data csound freeglut3 freeglut3-dev frozen-bubble gliv glutg3 glutg3-dev gtkglarea5 junior-games-gl libclan2-gl libfltk1 libfltk1.1c102 libgle3 libglut3 libglut3-dev libgtkglext1 libpolhem libqt3-mt-dev libsdl-perl libsdl1.2-dev libwxgtk2.4 libwxgtk2.4-python libwxgtk2.5.3 libwxgtk2.5.3-python libxine1 planetpenguin-racer plib1.8.4 pornview qt3-apps-dev qt3-examples race rss-glx snd snd-gtk space-orbit ssystem tipptrainer tipptrainer-data-de tuxkart tuxracer vreng wmanager wxpython2.5.3 xine-ui xlibmesa-dev xlibmesa-glu xlibmesa-glu-dev xlibmesa3 xlockmore-gl xpp xracer xscreensaver-gl xt I guess that's going to be fixed over time... erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cyrus21: Address family not supported by protocol
got the following error message from cyrus after reboot: Sep 13 03:06:40 jojda cyrus/master[9483]: unable to create imaps listener socket: Address family not supported by protocol and cyrus imapd does not listen on 993 (MUAs cannot connect to it). It was working fine before reboot. Other than not being able to listen cyrus seems to be working, the emails are received and stored as usual. system: debian unstable kernel 2.6.11 cyrus21-admin 2.1.18-1 cyrus21-clients 2.1.18-1 cyrus21-common 2.1.18-1 cyrus21-docs 2.1.12-2 cyrus21-imapd 2.1.18-1 shorewall 2.4.3-2 (is this relevant?) any ideas what this means? google didn't find any answers (found same Qs), didn't find any relevant bugs either. TIA erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SOLVED: Re: cyrus21: Address family not supported by protocol
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005, Erik Steffl wrote: Sep 13 03:06:40 jojda cyrus/master[9483]: unable to create imaps listener socket: Address family not supported by protocol Something gone wrong in your IPV6 (or lack thereof) setup? Tell cyrus to bind explicitly to a ipv4 socket, and the error might go away. Also, make sure you are not refering by name to a service that is not defined in /etc/services. I don't recall the exact error message Cyrus outputs (or, actually, glibc does) in that case. Refer to the service by port number, instead. thanks, further investigation revealed that imap (143) is working, imaps(993) is not. What happened: famd was listening on imaps, after adding proto=tcp4 to imap and imaps in cyrus.conf cyrus complained that address is already in use (too bad it didn't say which one and even worse that it wasn't complaining before I added proto=tcp4). anyway, fam NEWS/Debian.gz mentions the problem and refers to bug http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=277528 hmmm... seems like a pretty bad idea to use well known ports for random daemons... Also seems like it would be really nice for cyrus to actually complain about the problem in the first place (would have saved me few hours). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: weirdest network problems of my ilfe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ok after installing the new router that came w/ my dsl i'm having the most mind-boggling internet problems of my life. Here's some background on my network: +Linux box |Linux laptop (wireless) Wireless/Wired Router/Modem+Windows box #1 |Windows laptop +Windows laptop (wireless) Ok, so first off... all of my family's windows boxes are working fine. Everything is just normal. The linux boxen however, have problems. Internet generally works (although some sites (slashdot, gmail, etc) won't load in firefox (for some reason they will in links). I can't connect to yahoo/jabber/msn/etc w/ gaim, but i can w/ centericq. I've been trying to figure out all this for forever and so i tried to tcptraceroute my way to messenger.hotmail.com as an experiment (on port 1863 or whatever it was). It took a while, but the route was traced. The funny thing is that if i start tracing the route, and then start up gaim, i connect just fine. same goes for the sites that didn't load up in my browser... I can't figure out why everything works on the windows, but not on my linux boxen. the network stuff is all assigned by the router (dhcp). What should i do? you might want to try few liveCD distros to see if some of them works differently, if some of them works better see what settings it uses you can use some network monitoring tool to see what's being sent (e.g. tcpdump) so that you can see what's going on, it might give you soem ideas... use ping with different packet sizes to different destinations (your ISP gateway etc.), see response times, packet loss etc. and compare to windows boxes (the ones that work OK). erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mouse
sela wrote: I am going to sound like a goof ball but, my mouse roller working in the wrong direction mean scrolling up will take down and vice verse. here is my debian XF86Config-4 , which work wrong: Section InputDevice Identifier Configured Mouse Driver mouse Option CorePointer Option Device/dev/psaux Option Protocol ImPS/2 Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection and here is my RH XF86config which works just fine with the same mouse Section InputDevice Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol IMPS/2 Option Device /dev/psaux Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 Option Emulate3Buttons no BTW i am not emulating 3 buttons on the debian.. anyone ? anyone ? :) did you try to replace non-working debian config by working redhat config? (just the mouse section) erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aptitude keeps trying to replace my vim-gtk and ftpd
Wayne Topa wrote: Jules Dubois([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:54:56 -0500, Wayne Topa wrote: I just ran aptitude and it got The following packages are unused and will be REMOVED. There are 8 packages it wants to remove, one of which is bluefish, which I am using as I run aptitude.(?) ... If you want to keep bluefish, tell aptitude you installed it manually. I didn't install it manually. I had a total system wipeout about a AFAIK aptitude considers the package intentionally installed if you do installation using aptitude. Otherwise it will try to remove the package (if nothing else depends on it). to fix it just hit '+' (ask aptitude to install it) when it tries to remove it. From then on it will know you want the package. I guess the underlying problem is that apt-get doesn't differentiate between packages installed as a dependency and packages installed explicitly by user so aptitude has nothing to decide whether you installed the package. erik -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
