RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Matthew: You do not need an abuse or postmaster account for mail to function properly. You do not need to accept Null sender to have email function properly. But the mail system on the Internet only works because of "cooperative interoperability". The RFCs are the standards out there and it things will work better by adherence to a set of standards. The increase in Spam has caused all of us to change how we operate (otherwise we would not be on this list). When we set up our first mail server, I did not filter for spam, did not require SMTP Authentication, did not care about the configuration of sending servers, and had Imail set to relay for local users for a year and a half. I cannot run my business nor my mail servers like I did back then. People that do not want to run their servers in accordance with industry standards are going to find that it will be more challenging for them over time. I do agree with you about it making us all look better. Chuck Schick Warp 8, Inc. 303-421-5140 www.warp8.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Matthew Bramble > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:16 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > Why not just require everyone in the world to show the secret sign > before having their E-mail accepted? Sarcasm obviously, but > reverse DNS > entries are not necessary for E-mail to function properly, > and in many > cases won't even match the domain given in HELO...so why require it? > This also will do near nothing to stop the flood of spam over the > long-haul, so it appears to be a net negative due to the > problems that > this creates. > > Sorry, but I just see this as another blunt weapon, and > again, something > that becomes our problem to deal with when problems occur. > Just like I > expect to see many legit servers sending E-mail without DNS > entries, I > also expect companies which take such actions to be almost > impossible to > reach for corrections because they are obviously causing widespread > problems and don't have the staff to handle all of the inquiries that > would result, and of course, their lack of logic appears to > have spread > to other highly imperfect anti-spam measures which have > blacklisted at > least three list members reported in the last few days. > > The only positive about all of this is that it continues to prove the > incompetence of such companies to deal with spam, and that > just makes me > look all the better. > > Naturally, this is all just my opinion, so please don't be > offended that > I disagree so strongly. > > Matt > > > > Andy Schmidt wrote: > > >>>1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying > RDNS entries. > >>> > >>> > >They need to do a better job of this, but have little > motivation to do this. > ><< > > > >Well - I see your point and admit that there will be a > painful time of > >adjustment. > > > >But frankly, providers like yours will adopt their policies, > when many of > >their business customers suddenly have valid complaints that > they are unable > >to send emails anymore. There is no need for them to > DELEGATE DNS, but at > >least they have to offer to adopt their Reverse DNS to your > needs (e.g. > >generic host entries for your domain). > > > >In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? > > > >Best Regards > >Andy Schmidt > > > >Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) > >Fax:+1 201 934-9206 > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt > >Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 01:33 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > > > >Jason, > >Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > > >For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is > business class. > >It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as > >acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to > delegate RDNS. > > > >And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria > that would > >classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic > IP bunch because > >of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > > >The most common reason for this reasoning is that most > admins consider "DSL" > >to be equal to "consumer". But there is suc
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
For those wondering what we are talking about: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1912.html RFC 1912 - Common DNS Operational and Configuration Errors Please consider RFC1912 section 2.1 that doesn't *require* that the reverse DNS entries, but makes it clear that not having one is a "use at your own risk" type of situation. --Jason Jason, I think I have been convinced to push this issue with MPower. First I hope that John's contact can help me out, but I will also forward the RFC to them. Thanks for the debate! :) Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:35 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > Todd, thanks for the insight. > > >Jason, > >Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > Instead of delegating the RDNS to you, would they make the changes for > you? > Say, give them a list of your IPs and what you would like the RDNS to be? > > I guess I'm very fortunate to have worked with competent, and cooperative > ISPs the past 5 years. I too had my servers once on SDSL. and in 2 > different colo facilities. All gave me RDNS the way I wanted it. (btw, all > the providers I used were great, I just moved a few times) > > >And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would > >classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch > >because of our RNDS from MPower: > >las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > That's just not fair, AND not worth your money. You should demand that > they > serve you the way you need to be! > > >The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider > >"DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL > >(symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than > my > >T-1. > > ARgggH!! Agreed. Stupid admins! Is the world not full of too many of them > already? > > Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. I think you need to pressure > your > provider to give you RDNS entries with your own domain name content, after > all you are a paying business-class customer. You might want to refer them > to the RFC that states RDNS is a good thing, your being lumped into > dynamic > block lists based on the contents of the existing RDNS name is a serious > operational issue, and AOL's policies for blocking email. > > --Jason > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Jason, I think I have been convinced to push this issue with MPower. First I hope that John's contact can help me out, but I will also forward the RFC to them. Thanks for the debate! :) Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:35 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > Todd, thanks for the insight. > > >Jason, > >Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > Instead of delegating the RDNS to you, would they make the changes for > you? > Say, give them a list of your IPs and what you would like the RDNS to be? > > I guess I'm very fortunate to have worked with competent, and cooperative > ISPs the past 5 years. I too had my servers once on SDSL. and in 2 > different colo facilities. All gave me RDNS the way I wanted it. (btw, all > the providers I used were great, I just moved a few times) > > >And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would > >classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch > >because of our RNDS from MPower: > >las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > That's just not fair, AND not worth your money. You should demand that > they > serve you the way you need to be! > > >The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider > >"DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL > >(symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than > my > >T-1. > > ARgggH!! Agreed. Stupid admins! Is the world not full of too many of them > already? > > Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. I think you need to pressure > your > provider to give you RDNS entries with your own domain name content, after > all you are a paying business-class customer. You might want to refer them > to the RFC that states RDNS is a good thing, your being lumped into > dynamic > block lists based on the contents of the existing RDNS name is a serious > operational issue, and AOL's policies for blocking email. > > --Jason > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
> In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? Obviously you have never relayed your outbound mail through an ISP! If you had, you would not suggest that course of action. :) Currently, I have no problems. I hope that I can keep it this way! Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:46 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > >> 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. > They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do > this. > << > > Well - I see your point and admit that there will be a painful time of > adjustment. > > But frankly, providers like yours will adopt their policies, when many of > their business customers suddenly have valid complaints that they are > unable > to send emails anymore. There is no need for them to DELEGATE DNS, but at > least they have to offer to adopt their Reverse DNS to your needs (e.g. > generic host entries for your domain). > > In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? > > Best Regards > Andy Schmidt > > Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) > Fax:+1 201 934-9206 > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 01:33 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > Jason, > Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business > class. > It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as > acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate RDNS. > > And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would > classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch > because > of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider > "DSL" > to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL (symmetric > DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my T-1. > > In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: > 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. > They > need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. > > 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail > classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot of > stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really appreciate > Pete > McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks for the same things > that I would look for by hand, in the content, not the context. I think > we > need more out of the box thinking like this. > > Todd Holt > Xidix Technologies, Inc > Las Vegas, NV USA > www.xidix.com > 702.319.4349 > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > > I wanted to throw this question to the list: > > > > 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their > mailservers? > > > > 2) If so, why not? > > > > Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to > who > > actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to > me > > by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I > > haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something > like: > > Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them > that > > "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. > > > > 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry > > with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" > > exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is > multi-homed > > with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the > appropriate > > owner of the IP, say our mail server was doing something "bad" (which > it > > never has) they would know that &q
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
I have been told many times that MPower will create an RDNS entry, but only the using the standard format for all MPower RDNS entries (which is obviously inaccurate). I would love to have it changed to reflect our company name. Can you forward the name of your contact or have them contact me? Thanks, Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Tolmachoff (Lists) > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:43 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > Todd, by understanding at Mpower is they will not delegate, but will make > an > entry for you for what you need. If they are not allowing an entry for > you, > contact me off list as I have a contact at Mpower that may be able to look > into it. > > John Tolmachoff > Engineer/Consultant/Owner > eServices For You > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:33 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > > Jason, > > Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > > > For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business > > class. It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most > > as acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate > > RDNS. > > > > And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would > > classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch > > because of our RNDS from MPower: > > las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > > > The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider > > "DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL > > (symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my > > T-1. > > > > In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: > > 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. > > They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do > > this. > > > > 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail > > classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot > > of stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really > > appreciate Pete McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks > > for the same things that I would look for by hand, in the content, not > > the context. I think we need more out of the box thinking like this. > > > > Todd Holt > > Xidix Technologies, Inc > > Las Vegas, NV USA > > www.xidix.com > > 702.319.4349 > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > > > > I wanted to throw this question to the list: > > > > > > 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their > > mailservers? > > > > > > 2) If so, why not? > > > > > > Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to > > who > > > actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to > > me > > > by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I > > > haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something > > like: > > > Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them > > that > > > "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. > > > > > > 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry > > > with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" > > > exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is > > multi-homed > > > with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the > > appropriate > > > owner of the IP, say our mail server was doing something "bad" (which > > it > > > never has) they would know that "freedom2be.net" is the domain to > > email. > > > (such as [
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Agreed. However, this is happening to us. (a la AOL policies and others to follow) and we have to adapt. As I pointed out, I think the value of RDNS (regardless of it not stopping or slowing down spam) is that it identifies the operator of an IP address more clearly than the large netblock allocated to the upstream ISP. I once had an ISP that allocated my tiny netblock to me personally!!! They actually created a sub-netblock and I was listed in the ARIN whois! Not saying that is a good idea. However RDNS can help identify the operator of the IP in cases with tiny netblocks for colo, SDSL, and other business class connections. --Jason At 02:16 AM 12/17/2003, you wrote: >Why not just require everyone in the world to show the secret sign before >having their E-mail accepted? Sarcasm obviously, but reverse DNS entries >are not necessary for E-mail to function properly, and in many cases won't >even match the domain given in HELO...so why require it? >This also will do near nothing to stop the flood of spam over the >long-haul, so it appears to be a net negative due to the problems that >this creates. > >Sorry, but I just see this as another blunt weapon, and again, something >that becomes our problem to deal with when problems occur. Just like I >expect to see many legit servers sending E-mail without DNS entries, I >also expect companies which take such actions to be almost impossible to >reach for corrections because they are obviously causing widespread >problems and don't have the staff to handle all of the inquiries that >would result, and of course, their lack of logic appears to have spread to >other highly imperfect anti-spam measures which have blacklisted at least >three list members reported in the last few days. > >The only positive about all of this is that it continues to prove the >incompetence of such companies to deal with spam, and that just makes me >look all the better. > >Naturally, this is all just my opinion, so please don't be offended that I >disagree so strongly. > >Matt > > > >Andy Schmidt wrote: > >>>>1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. >>>> >>They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. >><< >> >>Well - I see your point and admit that there will be a painful time of >>adjustment. >> >>But frankly, providers like yours will adopt their policies, when many of >>their business customers suddenly have valid complaints that they are unable >>to send emails anymore. There is no need for them to DELEGATE DNS, but at >>least they have to offer to adopt their Reverse DNS to your needs (e.g. >>generic host entries for your domain). >> >>In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? >> >>Best Regards >>Andy Schmidt >> >>Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) >>Fax:+1 201 934-9206 >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt >>Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 01:33 AM >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? >> >> >>Jason, >>Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. >> >>For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business class. >>It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as >>acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate RDNS. >> >>And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would >>classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch because >>of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net >> >>The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider "DSL" >>to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL (symmetric >>DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my T-1. >> >>In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: >>1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They >>need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. >> >>2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail >>classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot of >>stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really appreciate Pete >>McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks for the same things >>that I would look for by hand, in the content, not the context. I think we >>need more out of the box thinking like this. >> >>Todd Ho
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Todd, thanks for the insight. >Jason, >Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. Instead of delegating the RDNS to you, would they make the changes for you? Say, give them a list of your IPs and what you would like the RDNS to be? I guess I'm very fortunate to have worked with competent, and cooperative ISPs the past 5 years. I too had my servers once on SDSL. and in 2 different colo facilities. All gave me RDNS the way I wanted it. (btw, all the providers I used were great, I just moved a few times) >And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would >classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch >because of our RNDS from MPower: >las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net That's just not fair, AND not worth your money. You should demand that they serve you the way you need to be! >The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider >"DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL >(symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my >T-1. ARgggH!! Agreed. Stupid admins! Is the world not full of too many of them already? Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. I think you need to pressure your provider to give you RDNS entries with your own domain name content, after all you are a paying business-class customer. You might want to refer them to the RFC that states RDNS is a good thing, your being lumped into dynamic block lists based on the contents of the existing RDNS name is a serious operational issue, and AOL's policies for blocking email. --Jason --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Why not just require everyone in the world to show the secret sign before having their E-mail accepted? Sarcasm obviously, but reverse DNS entries are not necessary for E-mail to function properly, and in many cases won't even match the domain given in HELO...so why require it? This also will do near nothing to stop the flood of spam over the long-haul, so it appears to be a net negative due to the problems that this creates. Sorry, but I just see this as another blunt weapon, and again, something that becomes our problem to deal with when problems occur. Just like I expect to see many legit servers sending E-mail without DNS entries, I also expect companies which take such actions to be almost impossible to reach for corrections because they are obviously causing widespread problems and don't have the staff to handle all of the inquiries that would result, and of course, their lack of logic appears to have spread to other highly imperfect anti-spam measures which have blacklisted at least three list members reported in the last few days. The only positive about all of this is that it continues to prove the incompetence of such companies to deal with spam, and that just makes me look all the better. Naturally, this is all just my opinion, so please don't be offended that I disagree so strongly. Matt Andy Schmidt wrote: 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. << Well - I see your point and admit that there will be a painful time of adjustment. But frankly, providers like yours will adopt their policies, when many of their business customers suddenly have valid complaints that they are unable to send emails anymore. There is no need for them to DELEGATE DNS, but at least they have to offer to adopt their Reverse DNS to your needs (e.g. generic host entries for your domain). In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? Best Regards Andy Schmidt Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) Fax:+1 201 934-9206 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 01:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? Jason, Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business class. It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate RDNS. And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch because of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider "DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL (symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my T-1. In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot of stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really appreciate Pete McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks for the same things that I would look for by hand, in the content, not the context. I think we need more out of the box thinking like this. Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? I wanted to throw this question to the list: 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their mailservers? 2) If so, why not? Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to who actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to me by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something like: Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them that "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is multi-homed with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the ap
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
>> 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. << Well - I see your point and admit that there will be a painful time of adjustment. But frankly, providers like yours will adopt their policies, when many of their business customers suddenly have valid complaints that they are unable to send emails anymore. There is no need for them to DELEGATE DNS, but at least they have to offer to adopt their Reverse DNS to your needs (e.g. generic host entries for your domain). In the meantime, why not relay your outbound mail through your ISP? Best Regards Andy Schmidt Phone: +1 201 934-3414 x20 (Business) Fax:+1 201 934-9206 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 01:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? Jason, Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business class. It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate RDNS. And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch because of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider "DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL (symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my T-1. In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot of stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really appreciate Pete McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks for the same things that I would look for by hand, in the content, not the context. I think we need more out of the box thinking like this. Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > I wanted to throw this question to the list: > > 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their mailservers? > > 2) If so, why not? > > Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to who > actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to me > by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I > haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something like: > Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them that > "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. > > 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry > with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" > exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is multi-homed > with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the appropriate > owner of the IP, say our mail server was doing something "bad" (which it > never has) they would know that "freedom2be.net" is the domain to email. > (such as [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Isn't this a good idea? > > --Jason > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type > "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at > http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Todd, by understanding at Mpower is they will not delegate, but will make an entry for you for what you need. If they are not allowing an entry for you, contact me off list as I have a contact at Mpower that may be able to look into it. John Tolmachoff Engineer/Consultant/Owner eServices For You > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd Holt > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:33 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > Jason, > Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. > > For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business > class. It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most > as acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate > RDNS. > > And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would > classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch > because of our RNDS from MPower: > las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net > > The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider > "DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL > (symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my > T-1. > > In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: > 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. > They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do > this. > > 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail > classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot > of stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really > appreciate Pete McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks > for the same things that I would look for by hand, in the content, not > the context. I think we need more out of the box thinking like this. > > Todd Holt > Xidix Technologies, Inc > Las Vegas, NV USA > www.xidix.com > 702.319.4349 > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > > > I wanted to throw this question to the list: > > > > 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their > mailservers? > > > > 2) If so, why not? > > > > Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to > who > > actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to > me > > by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I > > haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something > like: > > Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them > that > > "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. > > > > 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry > > with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" > > exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is > multi-homed > > with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the > appropriate > > owner of the IP, say our mail server was doing something "bad" (which > it > > never has) they would know that "freedom2be.net" is the domain to > email. > > (such as [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Isn't this a good idea? > > > > --Jason > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > > (http://www.declude.com)] > > > > --- > > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > > (http://www.declude.com)] > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS?
Jason, Many ISPs refuse (for one reason or another) to delegate RDNS. For example, we have a T-1 from MPower in Las Vegas. It is business class. It has is a static block of 8 IPs. Normally considered by most as acceptable to host a mail server. But Mpower refuses to delegate RDNS. And a few times people on this list have set forth criteria that would classify us as unacceptable. Bundling us into the dynamic IP bunch because of our RNDS from MPower: las-DSL224-cust089.mpowercom.net The most common reason for this reasoning is that most admins consider "DSL" to be equal to "consumer". But there is such a thing as SDSL (symmetric DSL) at speeds > 2Mbit! A better hosting environment than my T-1. In conclusion, I see two distinct problems here: 1. ISPs are not accurately, clearly and fairly specifying RDNS entries. They need to do a better job of this, but have little motivation to do this. 2. Mail admins need to do a better job of creating criteria for mail classification. Don't lump all DSL into spam source. Don't put a lot of stock into what an RDNS says, just that it exists. I really appreciate Pete McNeil's unique approach in building a tool that looks for the same things that I would look for by hand, in the content, not the context. I think we need more out of the box thinking like this. Todd Holt Xidix Technologies, Inc Las Vegas, NV USA www.xidix.com 702.319.4349 > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:52 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Does anyone not have Reverse DNS? > > I wanted to throw this question to the list: > > 1) Who does *NOT* have Reverse DNS (PTR) entries for their mailservers? > > 2) If so, why not? > > Personally I think reverse DNS entries adds an ounce of ownership to who > actually uses an IP address. For instance, I have several IPs given to me > by my colo provider. I have reverse DNS on all of them, even the IPs I > haven't used yet. If anyone looks my IPs up they will see something like: > Number.freedom2be.net as reverse DNS. This is basically telling them that > "freedom2be.net" is the operator of the IP address. > > 3) Shouldn't all mail servers on the internet have a reverse DNS entry > with some valid "administrative" domain name? We use "freedom2be.net" > exclusively for our reverse DNS entries. As our mail server is multi-homed > with many different domains. If someone needs to contact the appropriate > owner of the IP, say our mail server was doing something "bad" (which it > never has) they would know that "freedom2be.net" is the domain to email. > (such as [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Isn't this a good idea? > > --Jason > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
