[libreoffice-design] Hi, interested in contribution to libreoffic design team,
Hello,Let me introduce myself for starters,My name is Jack Majlinger and I am a 17 year old Diesel Mechanicwith a strong hobby interest in computers.When I heard about libreofice, seeing it was in its infancy i thoughtit would be a great project to get involved in. I can help provide graphics, sound (if needed) and variousother things to help improve libre office. I am looking forwardto being an active member and this mailing list is a great ideaand I'd love to sign up. RegardsJack Majlinger -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example should be unchecked. Rick On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Ray sebast...@orniz.orgwrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker daniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Paulo, Christoph, Wow... I can't believe its been so long. This thread took quite the nap. I also like Style 1 best, top right corner, and 14x11. Although the orange seems a bit loud. I guess that is acceptable since it is likely the most appropriate color from our arsenal. It seems fine in Christoph's example. You may consider matching the gradient for the outline of the page in your icon to match the page icons in the zoom toolbar if they are going to be located so close. It may also give the icon a little more attention. Other than that, I think its great! Good job! Cheers, Jaron On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.comwrote: Hi all! Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 18:59 -0200 schrieb Paulo José: Hello everybody! Some days ago Some weeks ago ... sorry for the long delay :-\ , Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to represent this status. [...] So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the suggestion of some people. Thank you so much, Paulo. Personally, I think the Style 1 (upper right) works best. The main reason is, that the shape of the document is preserved well - although the icon is so tiny. And, the star seems to appear quite balanced in this version. I first worried about the orange color, because usually yellow is used for indicating new. But of course - yellow is (given the constraints) almost invisible, so orange seems a great compromise. What else? Mmh, I think the 14x11px version fits better to the overall style of the status bar. The larger ones seem to be out of place somehow. So, if somebody wants to have a look at it - I've created an example by adding Paulo's icon to a simple status bar image: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/tLL1kYfD-fNZ8d5wkSzydA?feat=directlink Any further thoughts? To me, it's already an improvement - so I'm happy to export the icons and create an issue for that. I'll keep the source ... Versions on 16x14px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg Versions on 14x11px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg I hope it can be useful in some way. :) By the way, I hope everybody noticed the interview with Paulo - I discovered more or less accidentally :-) http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/03/04/interview-with-paulo-jose-o-amaro/ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
First, as an element by itself, I like the four shadow borders, but I can't help but wonder how it fits in with any plan or vision for the future of the UI. Also, I don't understand how a shadow border is any trickier when zoomed. The scale of the shadow (and line width) don't need to change with the zoom. It's just a border. Rob On Mar 6, 2011 5:57 AM, Sébastien Le Ray sebast...@orniz.org wrote: Before the 4 borders thing (which creates new issues related to zoom handling), I'm working on finding a way to have a configurable shadow color to allow smooth integration into various themes. Next step will be to think about the four borders thing :) Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system resourced used to no real usability gain. Shadows make sense only when you need to visually separate between stacked elements on a multi element UI like a desktop, but LibO UI is *single* document. And even if multiple document UI is developed this should be through a split screen/tabbed interface because it make no sense to put all documents on a desktop inside the desktop like it was on old staroffice 5.x. And even if the reason is because aesthetics, that's also arguable: I always disable shadows on my kde box, even if I like other eye candy effects a lot... I think that a subtle gradient on the background, or even the possibility to set up your own walpaper will be a lot better than casting a shadow over a coloured void. Just my 2¢ Ricardo 2011/3/6 Rick Hansson rickhans...@gmail.com: Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example should be unchecked. Rick On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Ray sebast...@orniz.orgwrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker daniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft
Hullo Design! It's open-season on the Motif. *We have hit the week-long (business-week) Design phase!* So get your preferred tool of awesome-vector-creation out, whether that is Inkscape, Illustrator or even pencil+paper (not so scalable =). Here is a summary of the ideas resulting from the brainstorming phase; * History * Revival * People / Community * Imagination / Creativity * Possibility * Freedom * Openness * Security * Individuality * Professionalism * Others are listed in more general descriptions on the motif page Here is what our branding specifies; * Clean * Balanced * Friendly Recommended visual tools; * Colour * Pattern * Shape * (I would add: texture) So we have ideas and concepts, *It's time to Design!* * Pick a concept you'd like to convey and, while adhering to the branding, create a first draft of your motif. * Upload it to the Wiki page (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) under the new Motif proposals section (bottom of page). * Add a preview image (jpeg/gif/png) if possible (svg preview is quite bad). * Explain what you were aiming to do with the Design, or more importantly, what it communicates. * If possible, please provide a preview of how the Design would look in context: it should be the same context to keep everything consistent.* So the context should be: An A4-size letterhead for LibreOffice* (210mmx297mm). This is so you don't have to worry about creating content. And you can add this letterhead-info to make your life easier; Name Surnameson 123 Roadly drive, Suburbia SinCity, Countria. 54321 Tel: 9876 54321 Fax: 9876 54322 Email: name.surname...@generic-co.com Just add the logo somewhere on the letterhead too and your Design motif somewhere on the page. You can fill the page with Lorem Ipsum dummy-text (http://lipsum.lipsum.com/) to add realism. Head over to this page for more information: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif ... On 3/6/2011 10:32 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Nik! Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 03:33 +1100 schrieb Nik: Hi Design! 2 more days to go until the brainstorming of motif ideas is over and we begin design proposals (on Monday). Head over to this page for more information; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif I still try to figure out how to catch up with some of the older tasks ... if I won't manage that (well), I'll simply upload what I have tomorrow evening (my time). On 2/28/2011 10:45 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: ... Am Sonntag, den 27.02.2011, 22:36 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: ... http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html I'm glad to include these on the page, but we should expect that these previous elements will have no significant bearing on the Motif yet-to-be-designed. I don't like carrying-over elements just because they have been used, I think it would be better to craft new elements from scratch with clear purpose+intentions+context from the beginning. True, but I hope that gives an impression what we've used so far - maybe it is inspiring - maybe not :-) I still like it somehow, since the show-to-the-upper-right triangle (whether it is varied in size, color, position) is still a strong link to the Document Symbol. Hi Christoph, I think the triangle is great, but to continue to use it in exactly the same way as in the logo, I think that would be a mistake. It seems too obvious and repetitive (not in a consistent way, but in a tiring way) to use it in many places. And adding more clipped top-right corners and floating triangles will reduce the impact of the current logo's appeal. But that is just my opinion, obviously no-one is restricted from creating whatever motif they want to propose! And, personally, it does have some meaning for me (progress, freedom, direction, guidance). See you tomorrow ... Cheers, Christoph *C'mon crew, let's drop some jaws! =)* -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi Ricardo, all, On 3/7/2011 2:41 AM, RGB ES wrote: Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system resourced used to no real usability gain. Shadows make sense only when you need to visually separate between stacked elements on a multi element UI like a desktop, but LibO UI is *single* document. And even if multiple document UI is developed this should be through a split screen/tabbed interface because it make no sense to put all documents on a desktop inside the desktop like it was on old staroffice 5.x. And even if the reason is because aesthetics, that's also arguable: I always disable shadows on my kde box, even if I like other eye candy effects a lot... I think that a subtle gradient on the background, or even the possibility to set up your own walpaper will be a lot better than casting a shadow over a coloured void. Just my 2¢ Ricardo Must be a subjective thing then. Once you add that background-image though, you'll be mighty sorry you don't have a drop shadow to separate your document from that busy background image. Which would be a usability gain. And even if it doesn't there's that precious fleeting thing called User Experience. I for one, love drop shadows on my documents, makes it easier to focus. I'd propose having a drop shadow by default and having the option to turn it off, or turn it flat (like it is currently). I know; it's easy to say, but hard to implement. Sorry. Just out of curiosity, are the shadows going to have transparency/alpha? Once people add background images, you wouldn't want to see the edge between where the bg-image picks up and the shadow drops off. And the idea of coloured drop shadows truly turns my stomach, it's too unprofessional? On a Design note, while I'm glad we've proposed blurred border on all four sides (because nothing is worse and less-realistic than a default right+bottom dark blurred drop shadow), ...the apps use top-lighting. So the bottom border should be darker than the left,top and right borders. Any gradient on the back should be lighter at the top and no other direction. The size of the blur should be indicative of how far you want the user to perceive the piece of paper is from the background it is hovering above. Right now the blurred border is too dark to be that wide; The larger the blur-radius the further the background the more diffuse the shadow/lighting becomes the paler the shadow should be. And the shadow should scale with the zoom-level, when have you ever seen a thumbnail-size paper cast shadow twice its size in all four directions? At a football stadium, I'm guessing =) That will conveniently address the proximity-to-neighbouring-pages-issue too maybe? I'll actually chip in a mock-up in the next few days if time allows. Maybe the Motif-Design task can tie into this and become the subtle default bg-image? -Nik 2011/3/6 Rick Hanssonrickhans...@gmail.com: Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example should be unchecked. Rick On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Raysebast...@orniz.orgwrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merkerdaniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Jaron! On 06-03-2011 10:49, Jaron Kuppers wrote: Hi Paulo, Christoph, Wow... I can't believe its been so long. This thread took quite the nap. I also like Style 1 best, top right corner, and 14x11. Although the orange seems a bit loud. I guess that is acceptable since it is likely the most appropriate color from our arsenal. It seems fine in Christoph's example. Thank you! You may consider matching the gradient for the outline of the page in your icon to match the page icons in the zoom toolbar if they are going to be located so close. It may also give the icon a little more attention. Yeah, I tried your and Christoph's suggestions and the result seems to be actually better: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg (force reload if it doesn't work) The Style 1 and 2 have the same size of Page Zoom icons (9px large) and each one have a gradient style (the Style 2 matching the Page Zoom icon's gradient). The Style 3 and 4 are 1px larger (10px large), the exactly same size of my previous proposal. See you guys! ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Welcome again. I installed LibreOffice 3.3.1 some time ago. I noticed that all of new file type icons are too much bolded and they aren't smoothed as other file type icons (eg. PDF, BMP etc.). For this reason LibO file type icons are more visible than other. Screenshot with comparision: http://img52.imageshack.us/i/liboicon.jpg/ Greetings W dniu 4 lutego 2011 16:53 użytkownik Paweł K. polishnetw...@gmail.comnapisał: PS: How can I create (translate from english) polish version of LibreOffice site? http://www.libreoffice.org/international-sites/ W dniu 4 lutego 2011 16:39 użytkownik Paweł K. polishnetw...@gmail.comnapisał: Hi, I think that file type icons sent to me by you will be great. Interface graphics (small toolbar icons in fe. Writer) for me is also (for today) bad - this icons have too much colors and, some of them, too many detail (eg. Paste, Font color). This icons should be clear to understand and simple in design. Some of them have cold colors and others have more colors (eg. Increase indent [mainly white and dark blue] and Font color [blue and brown]) - they are diffrent in colors, I don't like it. *For me all of this icons should be similar in colors and simplicity*. It's my opinion. Greetings 2011/2/3 Ivan M. iv...@patentpending.co.nz Hi Pawel, 2011/2/3 Paweł K. polishnetw...@gmail.com: I am writing about file type icons (fe. DOC, DOCX, ODT) and also about icons in LibreOffice toolbars (fe. button Save, Bold). As I said, I like icons from OpenOffice 3.2.1. Thanks for fast reply and sorry for my bad English. Thanks for clarifying that - Christoph was right (he usually is ;P) We had lots of negative feedback on the OOo mailing lists about 3.2.1 icons (mainly because they lacked color) - it was quite a significant issue and it made lots of users angry. One of the first things LibO did was to revert the icons to the pre-3.2.1 style before new icons could be implemented. We are now (almost) ready with those new icons, and you can see them on this image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9MZR46ZEuS8/TURcR5CLQPI/AuA/6gLZ8h2RS9Y/s1600/RevisedIcons128px.png For me they offer the best of both worlds: an improved design and much needed color. What do you think? Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft
Hi Nik, argh, am I late? Or should I ask: am I too late? :-) Thanks a lot for the summary and making up the wiki page ... I felt free to add the brainstorming proposals I've talked about yesterday. Thus, I'm very sorry for the late submission. I wasn't able to bring up something really new within the last hours, but I tried to clean up my available stuff to - at least - present it to you. And I felt free to add two things: a triangle pattern that might serve as a motif, and a large scale motif (is there a better description in English) that serves different document types. Combine the two, and voilà ;-) Here you go: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif#Brainstorming Okay, and a small hint for those who want to start to design (see Nik's mail below) in Inkscape - there is an excellent Lore Ipsum Generator built in. And to all - thanks for your excellent input! Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 03:18 +1100 schrieb Nik: Hullo Design! It's open-season on the Motif. *We have hit the week-long (business-week) Design phase!* So get your preferred tool of awesome-vector-creation out, whether that is Inkscape, Illustrator or even pencil+paper (not so scalable =). Here is a summary of the ideas resulting from the brainstorming phase; * History * Revival * People / Community * Imagination / Creativity * Possibility * Freedom * Openness * Security * Individuality * Professionalism * Others are listed in more general descriptions on the motif page Here is what our branding specifies; * Clean * Balanced * Friendly Recommended visual tools; * Colour * Pattern * Shape * (I would add: texture) So we have ideas and concepts, *It's time to Design!* * Pick a concept you'd like to convey and, while adhering to the branding, create a first draft of your motif. * Upload it to the Wiki page (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) under the new Motif proposals section (bottom of page). * Add a preview image (jpeg/gif/png) if possible (svg preview is quite bad). * Explain what you were aiming to do with the Design, or more importantly, what it communicates. * If possible, please provide a preview of how the Design would look in context: it should be the same context to keep everything consistent.* So the context should be: An A4-size letterhead for LibreOffice* (210mmx297mm). This is so you don't have to worry about creating content. And you can add this letterhead-info to make your life easier; Name Surnameson 123 Roadly drive, Suburbia SinCity, Countria. 54321 Tel: 9876 54321 Fax: 9876 54322 Email: name.surname...@generic-co.com Just add the logo somewhere on the letterhead too and your Design motif somewhere on the page. You can fill the page with Lorem Ipsum dummy-text (http://lipsum.lipsum.com/) to add realism. Head over to this page for more information: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif ... On 3/6/2011 10:32 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Nik! Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 03:33 +1100 schrieb Nik: Hi Design! 2 more days to go until the brainstorming of motif ideas is over and we begin design proposals (on Monday). Head over to this page for more information; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif I still try to figure out how to catch up with some of the older tasks ... if I won't manage that (well), I'll simply upload what I have tomorrow evening (my time). On 2/28/2011 10:45 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: ... Am Sonntag, den 27.02.2011, 22:36 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: ... http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/11/libreoffice-33-artwork-improvements.html I'm glad to include these on the page, but we should expect that these previous elements will have no significant bearing on the Motif yet-to-be-designed. I don't like carrying-over elements just because they have been used, I think it would be better to craft new elements from scratch with clear purpose+intentions+context from the beginning. True, but I hope that gives an impression what we've used so far - maybe it is inspiring - maybe not :-) I still like it somehow, since the show-to-the-upper-right triangle (whether it is varied in size, color, position) is still a strong link to the Document Symbol. Hi Christoph, I think the triangle is great, but to continue to use it in exactly the same way as in the logo, I think that would be a mistake. It seems too obvious and repetitive (not in a consistent way, but in a tiring way) to use it in many places. And adding more clipped top-right corners and floating triangles will reduce the impact of the current logo's appeal. But that is just my opinion, obviously no-one is restricted from creating whatever motif they want to propose! And, personally, it
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Paulo! Before I start - wow, it's always amazing how quick you can come up with such stuff (I didn't even invested the time to look on your other icons, I'm totally curious...). Am Sonntag, den 06.03.2011, 15:04 -0300 schrieb Paulo José: ... Yeah, I tried your and Christoph's suggestions and the result seems to be actually better: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg The Style 1 and 2 have the same size of Page Zoom icons (9px large) and each one have a gradient style (the Style 2 matching the Page Zoom icon's gradient). The Style 3 and 4 are 1px larger (10px large), the exactly same size of my previous proposal. Mmh, from the visual point-of-view, I prefer the 10px large icons - it just looks more balanced with the '*' inside. And the new outline looks great as well ... Concerning the differences to the other icons - some people may call me Mr. Consistency, but in this case it might be okay to be different (having in mind that we finally will end up in revamping the whole interface). The difference is document (your icon) and page (the existing icons in the status bar). One little (last) thing - when I looked at the icons, I noticed that the behavior of the items in the status bar are different. To be honest, the status bar is no status bar (only), since there are control elements like the zoom slider etc. Therefore, I wanted to better separate the active and the inactive items - along with some better visibility of information is important (document unchanged) and it is important (document changed). Thus, I slightly increased the transparency in the former case: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/o1JxptFPXGwS8MdlFm5rOA?feat=directlink Paulo - in this case I'd like as you in the first place. Would this be still okay to you? Feel free to answer straightforward ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo
Hi Nik, hi Rob, Jaron, Johannes, Bernhard, ... :-) Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 04:34 +1100 schrieb Nik: [...] I'd like to know where you stand on the typeface in general? do you think it works? Good question! [...] But most of this is too nitpicky, no font is perfect (except HELVETICA =). ;-) I'm not trying to be nasty, but this typeface looks genuinely unfinished. I think we would do ourselves a huge favour by locating a better font for the next version of the logo. What do you think? change or stay? and if change, do you or your colleagues know of any good open-source fonts? You are right Nik, the font is indeed unfinished (e.g. the Unicode coverage)- and development won't continue as far as I know. But in the given situation some months ago, the font had some real advantages ... for example: having a modern but neutral look. On of the things I've never mentioned in the blog posting [1] was the importance of neutrality, so that there is a viable chance to replace the font by something better (if there is any alternative) without trashing all the material we've created so far. Of course, the new font shouldn't be that different ;-) I've used the font comparison that had been done by the OOo Artwork Team [2]. And since Bernhard had substantial impact in creating the comparison, I'd like to ask him for his experience whether there is something better. Bernhard? I know ... It's very late to be talking about such things, but discussion in this vein might make for a better future logo. I think we slowly start to target topics related to a community branding - not only applying tiny improvements concerning the current one. What are your thoughts here? Thinking about some major improvements is fine, but the timing is important as well ... Personally, I think that some improvements by Johannes should make it into the current logo for (maybe?) the minor release of LibreOffice. And from what I can see, there is consensus that most of the tiny improvements (like you said Nik - and also to me: except the f-i-connection) greatly improve the general visual impression. Cheers, Christoph [1] http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/fontastic-how-libreoffice-got-its-font.html [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Branding_Initiative/branding_guidelines_draftoldid=181144#Fonts -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo [was: LibO logo]
Hi Johannes! Yeah, you're right, we're not talking on the same thing. What I mean by kerning is correct pixel anti-alialing artifacts, when a letter becomes blurry and you can use a sharpening filter to sharp the edges (correcting the blurry). But none sharpening filter changes the shape or move objects. I actually didn't know it's called kerning too. Thank you for show me that! :-) By the way, I need to say your work is a actual improvement! I don't know yet if I'm updated to your last proposals, but I'll find it and give you feedback soon. See you, ~Paulo On 02-03-2011 07:00, Johannes Bausch wrote: Hey Paulo, 2011/3/1 Paulo José Amaropaul...@gmail.com Sadly I can't see any image from the imageshack server. Could you add to the wiki? I'm actually curious about your friend's proposal. http://tinyurl.com/48rgtw I guess that's something InDesign does with OpenType Pro fonts (Minion etc.). And with sharpening filter I mean this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsharp_masking or another GIMP plugin to sharp image's edges (IMO, the best is the Inverse Diffusion of GIMP's GMIC plugin). They can be used to correct some kerning problems on the final generated bitmaps. Ah okay. But are we talking about the same kerning? How can a sharpening filter move letters about? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning Maybe I just don't get it, sorry ^^. To the rest: Can we have a vote on the ligatures somehow? Or are there further suggestions? Thanks, Joey -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi Nik, Ricardo, all! Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 03:45 +1100 schrieb Nik: Hi Ricardo, all, On 3/7/2011 2:41 AM, RGB ES wrote: Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system resourced used to no real usability gain. [...] Must be a subjective thing then. Once you add that background-image though, you'll be mighty sorry you don't have a drop shadow to separate your document from that busy background image. Which would be a usability gain. And even if it doesn't there's that precious fleeting thing called User Experience. I for one, love drop shadows on my documents, makes it easier to focus. I'd propose having a drop shadow by default and having the option to turn it off, or turn it flat (like it is currently). I know; it's easy to say, but hard to implement. Sorry. Drop shadows are one way of telling the user which element currently has the focus. Some time ago, I've presented an idea how to present the document vs. the notes in Writer. Please have a look at the first two pictures (although it was based on the rather simple shadow in Writer): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Mockups_and_Screenshots Concerning the - turn it off option. For my point-of-view, wouldn't it be better to go with a design which a) performs well (in terms of speed), and b) is acceptable by the majority of users. We already have too many options and (at the moment) no way of presenting them somehow prioritized ... like Firefox. [...] And the shadow should scale with the zoom-level, when have you ever seen a thumbnail-size paper cast shadow twice its size in all four directions? At a football stadium, I'm guessing =) That will conveniently address the proximity-to-neighbouring-pages-issue too maybe? Mmh, this is a good point - we've discussed that some time ago in the OOo UX team. I think the major point is, that the document paper does not change its height in comparison to the background. Therefore most of the systems (although having only a right-bottom drop shadow) don't change the size of the shadow when the content of the document is zoomed. For example, the shadow size is kept if the user zooms in - the shadow doesn't convey valuable information in this case. Consequently, and this what I think you had in mind as well, a shadow should be defined in a certain size for 100%, and: * if the document is zoomed in, then the shadow should grow only slightly * if the document is zoomed out, then the shadow should decrease according to the document zoom level (but keeping a min size of e.g. 1 ... 2 px) That's the good thing when it comes to usability ... it's usually never simple ;-) I'll actually chip in a mock-up in the next few days if time allows. Maybe the Motif-Design task can tie into this and become the subtle default bg-image? Cool, thanks! And although some people might think I am stressing that a bit too much ... Johannes once put together some ideas: http://www.johannes-eva.net/2009-07-new-application-background-ooo And some things I still have in mind ... Nik, you mentioned the light comes from above issue (I deleted this section in this mail, so sorry for the late comment) - of course this is correct, but in one special (but most important) case - talking about Writer - we have continuous document content spread over different pages. So, if the content is scrolled, then all the pages show different lighting and it behaves a bit like a passing train in the night (bright, dark, bright, dar, ...). For all other cases (like icons, Impress, ...) the top-lighting will work. But for Writer, applying a constant shadow across the page is more than okay. There has been a proposal to use the background to differentiate between the different document types. This might be tricky, since even the main applications in LibreOffice sometimes miss an application background. Consequently, I wouldn't make this a key visual (by the way, Microsoft Office 2010 has solved this elegantly). Furthermore, color applied on a large surface like this one will distract ... And, since we talk about the application background. Please be aware that these are usually defined by the operating system. If we change it, then we miss to behave according platform requirements. And usually, this is against usability ... so this should only be changed if its a real (perceived) benefit. Cheers, Christoph 2011/3/6 Rick Hanssonrickhans...@gmail.com: Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg
Re: [libreoffice-design] Hi, interested in contribution to libreoffic design team,
Be welcome Jack! I hope you enjoy a lot to stay with us! :D I'd like to know more about your sound experiences. Can you talk more about it? Maybe it's a unexplored field to play with in LibreOffice. ~Paulo On 06-03-2011 03:15, Jack M wrote: Hello,Let me introduce myself for starters,My name is Jack Majlinger and I am a 17 year old Diesel Mechanicwith a strong hobby interest in computers.When I heard about libreofice, seeing it was in its infancy i thoughtit would be a great project to get involved in. I can help provide graphics, sound (if needed) and variousother things to help improve libre office. I am looking forwardto being an active member and this mailing list is a great ideaand I'd love to sign up. RegardsJack Majlinger -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons
Hi Paulo, all, thanks for keeping this running! Paulo José schrieb: Hi all! I have been away from these discussions, just reading and not participating, but here is one more contribution. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Toolbar-Mimetype-Icons.svg These are the Tango-inspired version of the Mimetype icons for toolbar usage. I'd like to know your opinion/criticism/suggestions.. :-) We discussed the shadow during the first few iterations and came to the conclusion not to use it. I don't remember the reason exactly, but I think that some OS add their own shadow to the icons on the desktop? And we didn't want to waste precious pixel... About size, they are 24px + 2px (1px empty border) = 26px. I don't know if it's the only needed size... Can anyone talk more about it? And also, are more icons needed? What I read from Thorsten is in the mail you attached: [...] On 10-02-2011 05:20, Christoph Noack wrote: [...] Am Donnerstag, den 10.02.2011, 08:15 +0100 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: Christoph Noack wrote: But, here comes the question to a new toto item - Thorsten: Kendy mentioned yesterday that some icons might be missing. Is it right that we lack toolbar icons for (e.g.) the File-New-Dropdown? If yes, what size is required here? Nope, we have those. Phew. :-) According to the Galaxy icon set page, it should be 26x26 - can you confirm? http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html Heh, no friggin' idea - but yeah, that page says: small size (16 x 16 pixel), large size (26 x 26 pixel), high contrast version of all icons. ;) [...] Large: 48×48 Medium: 32x32 Small: 22×22 pixels - blow up to 24×24 by adding a 1 pixel empty space on all sides Extra Small: 16×16 pixels So if I understand it correctly, we need 24x24 px icons already including one empty pixel at every side. This might be dependent on operating system and distribution, otherwise I don't know why Galaxy mentions 26x26, but perhaps Thorsten can enlighten us Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons
Hi all, I just perceived my LibreOffice version's icons are actually 26px large (and different from this [1] screenshoot), so I made a 26px version without shadow: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Toolbar-Mimetype-Icons-26px.svg And a version with the same 1px bottom from the other icons of the toolbar: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Toolbar-Mimetype-Icons-25px-shadow.svg Here you can see a comparison between the three proposals: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Toolbar-Mimetype-Icons-comparison.png What's your opinions? See you, guys! ~Paulo [1] - http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:2011-02-15_LibreOfficeInitialIcons_ToolbarIssue.png -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
