[libreoffice-design] I'm going to leave the community - thanks to all of you!
Hi all, I'm very sorry that I have to announce this: I can't spend my time on LibreOffice any more. During the last weeks (to be honest: even the last months) I only read this list and some of the others I'm subscribed to, but my replies became very rare. I tried for a very long time to avoid compromising my private life with my LibreOffice (and previously OpenOffice.org) activities. But looking on my life I have to confess, that this didn't really work out. From now on I will try to spend more time with the most important people in my real life: my children and my friends. Even if I like being here very much, real life is more important - and if you understand that you have to spend your time wisely, your decision is clear... I'm not the one to reduce my activities until a certain amount of work: It turned out in the past that I had been as active as before (or even more) after a few week's time. So I have to stop all my LibreOffice activities and hope that you keep up the great work you already do. It has been very much fun to be a part of this community. I learned quite a lot during the 6 or 7 years of in the OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice community (I improved not only my English), but the most important part of the work here is to meet not only co-workers, but friends. I'm leaving very reluctantly, but as the day has less than 30 hours to work, I know that my decision is the right one. Thank you that I could be part of such a great community - and a design team that starts to become more and more important inside this community. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VOTE CLOSED] Christoph Noack is Design Team Lead!
Hi all, I think we can close this voting: Congratulations Christoph! The Design Team wants you to be their Lead! All the people posting in this thread (and in the other thread on flying ships) showed their support for this position. So, Christoph, there are at least 12 people willing to support you! Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Up to now several Design Team members posted their opinion: Björn Balasz (+1) Sabin Densmore (+1) Kévin Peignot (+1) Alexander Wilms (+1) Charles-H. Schulz (congratulations - don't know if for the Lead position) (added +1) Ivan Miskovic (+1) Tobias Bernard (+1) Rafael Rocha Daud (+1) Aleksandar Dev (+1) Sveinn í Felli (+1) Helio S. Ferreira (+1) Michel Renon (+1) My best wishes for a bright LibreOffice Design future! Bernhard ... just going to update the wiki page ... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] [VOTE] Christoph Noack as Design Team Lead focusing on UX (was: Flying the ship...)
Hi Christoph, all I already wrote a (inrelation to my other mails) short posting to this list, but my Internet connection here at work killed it instead of sending, so I can use this reply as formal starting point to an official voting. (and as my mail client is used to break threads, I can start a new one) Christoph Noack wrote: [...] it feels very good to see all your support concerning the Lead for User Experience as Bernhard phrased it. So why might this be useful? [... please read Christoph's mail [1] for details...] However, my question to Bernhard - when do we consider the voting as finished? If I remember correctly, Nik summarized the for/against votes after a few days ... assuming that everybody had a fair chance. So, please guys, add your opinion / vote ... Up to now several Design Team members posted their opinion: Björn Balasz (+1) Sabin Densmore (+1) Kévin Peignot (+1) Alexander Wilms (+1) Charles-H. Schulz (congratulations - don't konw if for the Lead position) Ivan Miskovic (+1) Tobias Bernard (+1) Rafael Rocha Daud (+1) Aleksandar Dev (+1) Every other Design Team member: Please cast your vote! (Just add your name and +1 or -1 in a reply to this mail) I think three more days will be enough for all the people not knowing that a thread of flying ships will help us with a more structured positioning inside and outside the LibreOffice community. Thus I'd like to close the voting on Tuesday 27th of September - allowing our website [2] to be updated on our first anniversary on Wednesday. And by the way - please have a look at the Team page [3] decide if you want to add or update your profiles... Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@global.libreoffice.org/msg03081.html [2]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design#Disciplines [3]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Team -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Private stuff: It seems that I'm back :-)
Hi Christoph, all, Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi all, a few months ago I've said that I will be offline for some time ... because of very good family reasons [1] *g* In the last weeks, I found myself involved in numerous topics, bug reports, discussions on libo-ux-advise, the Munich Hackfest, some LibO conference preparation, and SC stuff. It seems that I'm somehow back ... and I'm enjoying it (and my family, of course). You've been more active than most of us during the time you called parental leave or baby pause... Keep trying to find the right way between personal and family life on the one and LibreOffice on the other side. Still, I'm unsure how much time will be available - so far it works rather well. My personal goal is to slowly but steadily continue to work with you all on the items we've listed on the WhatWeNeed page [2]. Some points have been addressed so far, many points are still open ... Besides the points you mentioned there is one thing I'd like to finish now that you are back officially. It's a follow-up of the thread we discussed in May/June: Flying the ship... (http://www.mail-archive.com/design@global.libreoffice.org/msg02221.html) I'll reply to this last mail soon... Best regards and Welcome back :-) Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Flying the ship...
Hi all, yes - this is a really old thread, but I think it is important enough to revive it now that Christoph is (officially) back again: Nik schrieb: Hi Bernhard, all, On 6/7/2011 7:33 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: [...] One point I didn't mention even if it is very present for me: When Christoph has ended his parental leave I'll ask him if we can have a similar voting on his position as lead for User Experience, so I can concentrate on Visual Design (where I feel much more comfortable than in UX ;-)). [...] That is a most excellent idea! =) I think a co-lead situation would be ideal because decisions can be discussed/ideas can be bounced between the two of you. And it might even make for some pretty entertaining arguments on-list =D I have updated content about the team-lead decision on these pages; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off [...] So in my eyes it is the right time to ask all of you about your opinion on Christoph Noack becoming our UX-Lead inside the Design Team. If he wouldn't have been away because of his son's birth back in May, his election would have been part of the voting at this time. Now we have to run a separate voting... I'm quite sure most of you know about his past as OpenOffice.org User Experience Co-Lead (a position that has never been revoked BTW) and his huge contributions not only to OOo UX (please have a look at the Renaissance area in the OOo wiki [1] and find out who wrote these pages), but to LibreOffice design and UX from the very first beginning (including the basics of our present visual identity). If somebody wants to discuss this proposal before we start voting, feel free to ask your questions. Christoph told me that he would take the lead's hat if you want him to wear it. He already wrote in his I'm back mail about his goals for the next time, but he can be even more precise if you ask him... In case there are no objections and no need for more discussion I'd like to start the voting on Thursday (if I'll find the time...) Best regards Bernhard PS: Just to inform you: It have not only been holiday reasons causing me to reduce my presence here on the list during the last weeks. Even if I tried to read all the mails on des...@global.libo, I wasn't able to reply to all the interesting and important ones. Future seems not to add even more hours to day- (or better nighttime)... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] URGENT: we need the split logo of the LibreOffice Conference
Hi Christoph, Charles, all please DON'T USE the file I attached to the last mail, I found the reason for the wrong formatting of the triangle created O: The triangles have been cloned from an original not visible in the graphic and the clones are moved by Inkscape when they are converted to single elements (probably done at EPS conversion). I repositioned the single elements after de-cloning them, so the resulting EPS shows the O in the right position. Attached for Charles, for the others I uploaded it to the wiki: Unfortunately the wiki seems not to allow EPS files to be uploaded, so I had to use a trick: I uploaded the SVG file (newly created from the official SVG version with the right colors - just removed the left LibO logo part and added the necessary white space) to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Conference_Logo_2011Paris_color.svg I uploaded the EPS version as new version of the same file. Thus the EPS is downloadable as: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/4/47/Conference_Logo_2011Paris_color.svg But you have to rename it to Conference_Logo_2011Paris_color.eps after the download. The SVG version is reachable as previous version: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/4/47/Conference_Logo_2011Paris_color.svg I'll ask on the website list for the possibility to upload eps files to the wiki too. Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Thanks! Charles, when forwarding the file please tell the guys to double check the green color as well ... there have been reports last year that RGB to CMYK conversion might be bad. No solution yet for proper conversion ... I recreated the SVG version from the file with corrected colors as I don't know if you used Nik's original file (with wrong green tones) for your conference logo without LibO logo part. But you're right - conversion might cause different color tones, and even with the right tones they might look differently depending on the surface they are printed on. So please double-check the colors when they are printed. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice-ux-advise] Libre Icons.zip
Hi Toby, Astron, all Astron schrieb: Hello Toby, First of all, you are probably writing to the wrong list. Design question best go to design@global.libreoffice.org and you're invited to join there (I'm CC'ing this list). Thanks, Astron, for moving this topic to this list! Second, please note that I am only speaking as a single contributor to the design team and am in general not an important person in the project. Even if you speak on your own behalf, this doesn't mean that your voice doesn't have influence and wouldn't be heard... (especially as your comments and contributions show that you are one of the most active members of the Design team ;-) ) On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Richards, Toby toby.richa...@slo.courts.ca.gov wrote: I hope you can get attachments. We can't on the design list, but the ux-advise list you sent your mail to accepted the attachment (even if I didn't like to open a zipped attachment without knowing it's content). Would you mind to upload your proposal to the wiki (after creating an account) and send the link here, so it's easier for others to have a look? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org I realized that I really dislike the current Libre Office icon. Some people shared your opinion, but other like it quite well. But there is always room for improvement, so all your comments and proposals are welcome. It looks like the icon for a generic file, which makes it ambiguous. It looks a bit similar to a standard document icon, but I don't consider this as problem or fault: LibreOffice *is* (or at least should be) the product to open and work on a variety of documents, so it's positive in my eyes, if people consider our icon as a generic document icon. In some circumstances our main application icon looks a bit colorless to me, but the sub-application / document icons are a good contrast to this... I can understand your criticism that document and application icons look the same. That is not optimal. In fact, I don't consider this a problem: There is no document icon that looks like the main application icon. The sub-application icons might be considered as document icons, as they open an (empty) document - but this leads to the discussion about marketing single sub-applications or one integrated main application: An important, but different topic. [...] it takes a lot of time and energy to create modern icons and we (as in, the Libreoffice community) have changed them less than half a year ago. Changing them again radically now is probably not an option. If you'd like to read more about the design process, see this wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons . Any change to central branding elements like the icons or the logo need really good reasons - but provided such reasons are supported by the community (especially with regards to the marketing impact of the modification), any change might be possible. If you cannot get attachments on the list, then try https://sites.google.com/site/tobiasrichards/misc-files/LibreIcons.zip?attredirects=0d=1 Now on to your proposal. I am sorry, but I don't think it currently has the necessary quality: * Its meaning is unclear to me—it looks like a double traffic light and doesn't seem to have any relation to documents/a suite/an office etc. I don't understand the reason for eight corners - the icon looks like a shield, it resembles rather a virus protect product than an office suite. If you want to refer to the sub-applications, I would think of adding the symbolism of them at least in the larger scales... * There are only four key applications, not six—Base, Calc, Impress, Writer, and one smaller application, Math; even though Chart (like Math) is accessible from within Calc, Impress and Writer, it doesn't have an own menu shortcut, so it doesn't count You did forget Draw and Base. Depending on the status of Math, there are five or six sub-applications even without Chart. The Start Center shows all the six, so I don't think this is really wrong. * Google Images suggests that by BSG you mean Battlestar Galactica... if that is what you mean, please bear in mind that LibreOffice is supposed to appeal to wide international audience and not everyone will be able to make this connection. I don't see any reference to BSG, my ZIP file contains .png images only. Even in case you now decide to quit icon-making, you should know that as a manager of what is probably a larger deployment of Openoffice.org/LibO you can might be able to make a few good proposals for usability improvements. We still need icons (especially a consistent set of menu icons in different themes), and there is nobody who hinders you from keeping on working on the mimetype icons. But be aware, that your designs will most like be easier implemented in the product, when you work in an area where help is really necessary. If you have a look at the archives of
Re: [libreoffice-design] bug fdo#36946 - Slide Transitions
Hi Rob, all, Rob Snelders schrieb: Hi All, I'm trying to solve bug fdo#36946. Great! This is one of the features where MS Office is really in front of LibreOffice... But I'm trying to see what the best categories are. When I go for the, in my eyes, logical choice then I would have every transition and then afterwards you have a option to select the direction of the transition. For complete interactivity I would like to see three categories: - direction (up to 360 degrees - perhaps graphically) - velocity (10 values) - acceleration (positive and negative values) The utmost feature would be the possibility to follow a given (like swirl) or randomly drawn path. I don't know if this is feasible at all - but it could become an outstanding feature, pushing Impress back in a competitive position (even if I don't know if PowerPoint allows acceleration adjustment). That would mean that, for example, you choose the transition Wipe and then you'll have to choose a direction, for example up. Is this a good way or does anybody have a better idea. Thanks a lot for working on this feature! Please include me in the emails about this because I'm not subscribed to this list. Done Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Website buttons
Hi Klaus-Jürgen, all, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol schrieb: Am 17.07.2011 03:12, schrieb Marc Paré: [...] If we don't have any such page with buttons, could we have someone work out a few on a wiki page for user reference? IMO, I would prefer if these were offered up the same way as the OOo buttons. The sizes on the OOo page seem adequate. It would be nice if we even had some for the upcoming conference too! Here will be the place to work on: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements Especially on Electronical artwork - web buttons, a page I haven't had yet time to work on, so it doesn't exists up to now. I created the page (just the structure), so you can add your web buttons (and replace my dummy entry): http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Buttons With a reasonable number of buttons we could create subtitles for different sizes or a table with alternative buttons in these sizes. Best regards Bernhard PS: I'd keep buttons for download on the wiki, while buttons for external reference (keeping the graphic on our server) should be placed on the website in the mid- and longterm. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Question about UI plans
Hi Alex, all, Alex B schrieb: I just asked myself, if there are any plans for a new UI? In addition to Christoph's reply: Many people are interested in improving the UI - your comment below describes part of their work. I saw several really good mockups over the past view months, but i found nothing tangible in the wiki. There are several small proposals and improvements wich could be get discarded if a new UI is implemented. But like Christoph mentioned: A general UI overhaul will not only have advantages. Main point is: We need developers to work on such a major modification - and they need lot of time and dedication to struggle their way through the code. With a paid staff, this would probably work quite well, but based on the volunteer status of our developers I would propose a different approach: 1) split the design mockups in bits and pieces (and find out that some of these bits are part of several mockups) 2) define the improvements we would like to be implemented first. In my eyes this is docking/undocking behavior for windows and toolbars (including menus): With such a feature most of the different opinions on context sensitive menus would be handled quite easily by extensions for different target groups. 3) find developers to work on these features (as these are just single areas, the coding effort should be much less than on a general new design). 4) ship LibreOffice with improved UI with (nearly) every new version - leading to the general overhaul in quite the same time as a one-step-solution (or even faster, if the other way would lack developers) and allowing our present users to get accustomed to the improvements. 5) work on improving LibreOffice's theme handling and design extension handling in a parallel action - this would allow to create different UIs for different purposes, if someone would code such an extensions. So are there any designers/programmers out there actually working on a new UI? I already started with point 1 on a dedicated wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/UI_Elements Feel free to improve my example element (vertical tabs) by pointing to the different mockups containing such an element, adding an image or including your comment - but you can add your proposals and ideas too! If you pr somebody else would volunteer to have an eye on the evolution of this page and the action based on it, this would be great! Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] SVG logo problem (was: Packaging idea for LibreOffice software)
Hi Nik, all, Nik schrieb: Hi again, So, after nearly half a day of fiddling with this I've uploaded a new SVG which should be fine here; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/8/8e/ExtensionsLogo_Cleaned_110712NS.svg It seems the problem I'm having with SVGs originates from the SVG LibO logos on our branding page. While that file passes W3C validation, Illustrator seems not to like exporting any work created using the logos back to SVG. I'm sure it's the logos because I stripped everything else out of several test documents and only the logo alone returned an error. In Inkscape it was really easy to replace the bitmap with the SVG (I used the one I stored on my HD - if it doesn't produce the errors in your Illustrator, I'll upload this one). Please have a look if I didn't change positioning, opacity or shading. So for now, I've included raster versions of the LibO logo in the file above, feel free to replace with vector versions if you tinker with it. While this took long enough to fix on this very simple file (there were remnants of corrupt items in odd places), cleaning the Paper-case files is not going to be as straightforward, because the shapes are embedded everywhere across so many layers and in so many grouped objects. Bit of a nightmare really. And while I know this probably only affects me (probably one of the few people not using Inkscape), I can't use the logo in any further files without corrupting them if they need to be provided in SVG. Would I be able to get an EPS copy of the logos off someone, so that I can try translating them into Illustrator-friendly files? Sorry for the bother, I'd rather be doing more productive stuff, but the logo is one of those mandatory items and I can't keep giving people PNGs when we need vectors. I created different versions of the contemporary TDF subline logo from the original file: - Inkscape SVG - Plain SVG - Export to EPS (the export options included a conversion of the filters to raster, so the result might not be the best...) I sent a mail containing the three versions (with text as text or as path) to the test mailing list where we try out the new mail attachment service. Via this link you will reach the attachments: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/attachments/mail/ad5c5c08-699d-4c0c-9bc1-9b570139c52a/ Unfortunately the EPS versions have been stripped off, so I'll send them to Nik directly. Best regards Bernhard Looks like the Paper-case will have to wait for a while now =( I can't see me having any time in the near future to overhaul them. Very sorry! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Specifications for present UI and Graphics (was: Design Tenets Proposal)
Hi Rafael, all just taking a very small part of your mail to reply, because this is a different topic that shouldn't be hidden at the end of a long mail. Rafael Rocha Daud schrieb: [...] Talking of what, who do we need to talk to to get some directions on the capabilities of our current graphical libraries? Is there a specification, and someone who might be able to explain it if I get stuck? I want to continue working in the Styles and Formatting window, but I don't know what graphical elements I can throw in, explore etc. The best one to reply here is Christoph - but let him some time to reply as he is in parental leave (even if he is more and more active again...) As the UI is nearly unchanged from the OOo UI, you should have a look at the OpenOffice.org specifications. I found this index: http://specs.openoffice.org/ui_in_general/index.html Don't know if it is helpful at the moment. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Packaging idea for LibreOffice software
Hi Nik, all, Nik schrieb: Hi all, I've been buried under research for the last few months and I've just returned to see that I'm buried under hundreds of Emails to get through. While I'll work through them in the next few days to catch up, there was something I wanted to show you guys before I left, but didn't... It is a packaging idea for people who distribute LibO on CD/DVD. [...] http://liberated.nikashsingh.org/html/papercase.html Just great! Thanks a lot! And it may be the best existing indication of how I imagine our branding language could look and feel. Simple, clean, honest, pure and vibrant. +1 -Nik Bernhard, Christoph, I'm really off-tempo here, if there is anything I should work on immediately (while I have this break) or anything I left unfinished please let me know. It would be great if you could contribute to the new download page Christoph prepared: http://go.mail-archive.com/MMFitVgxxIb8J1es2D87zpuWImg= The discussion takes place on the website list, but no action seems to be taken in the meantime. I started a new wiki page for UI element proposals, trying to integrate different mockups by looking and discussion the single elements: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/UI_Elements There are some other threads active at the moment, but you'll find your way through the masses of mails... Best regards and welcome back Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi all, I don't have enough time, so anybody step in... Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Moved the page to the Design area: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/UI_Elements and added the Design category. Please play with the page, add your ideas, categorize and sort them, so we can discuss the next steps based on some examples. ... replace my example vertical tabs with real data - there have been several mockups mentioned here on the list containing this element. ... start a new thread pointing everybody to this new wiki page (at the moment buried in the deepest area of a thread on much more topics than just this one). ... link to the page from different areas in the wiki (whiteboard?, design kick-off?, how to contribute page - needs to be worked on too) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi all, Bernhard Dippold schrieb: Hi Björn, all Björn Balasz wrote: Hi Bernhard, all, Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 23:09:33 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add more fields than just one caption below each image. With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages to get the necessary information. A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each specific design element (if existing) and many more information. On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. Could you take care of this? Important to me seems to be that commitments are licenced correctly and allow to show mocks, designs and even prototypes at the same time. Don't know which technical solution is best for this... I can try to - but I'd really appreciate someone else to step in (too). My time is limited, but that's probably the same for each of our team members. I started with some thoughts on the single UI elements table. Here is the very first result: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bedipp/UI_Elements A table with different fields containing UI elements, a thumbnail image, name and date of upload, last activity, description, other implementations, advantages and disadvantages and finally the priority (or status of implementation). Please don't hesitate to comment and work on this table, find superfluous or lacking columns, add your own ideas - But most important: discuss it here. If there will be positive feedback I'll move this page out of my personal page. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
Hi Drew, Jean, all I'm really sorry, that I didn't comment on this design earlier. I had started to move something similar to the OpenSourcePress design to SVG, but my laptop decided to boil (Ubuntu fan control sucks) and all my work was gone... Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 09:22 -0400, drew wrote: [...] Hi Jean, Well, couldn't resist touching this one time over morning coffee. Decoupled the document icon from the textual part and put both no a growth hormone, also rolled back the color jab on the scatter patter as it was kaka (technical term for sucked)...you can see in the latest file http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png [...] The large gray LibO icon in the upper right-hand corner seems a bit of a harsh contrast to the rest of the image. It might work if smaller, or in a different color or something. I assume you removed the document icon from the logo in order to enlarge the LibreOffice text, which really seems a bit small on the other covers on the wiki gallery (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_DocumentationFronts). But I don't like this icon in this place and size either - it looks too bold in my eyes. [...] Doesn't look like anyone else has had time to look at this and coment. Sorry - different things to do :-( I don't have lots of other comments. I agree that the logo might be more prominent in order to have a larger LibreOffice text on the cover, but I would keep the logo intact as this is our main branding element. You probably tried already to have the full mimetype icons instead of just the symbols - this would be the only way I imagine with this design to include the sub-applications colors to the covers without becoming too prominent. But these are not very important considerations. Your design looks good - there is no reason at all to veto it: Please go ahead! And thanks for stepping in! Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi David, Jay, all, planas schrieb: Hi all, On Sun, 2011-06-26 at 23:43 +0300, David Nelson wrote: Hi, On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Jean Hollis Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: [...] To me having the user guide screenshots in gray DOES have advantages FOR THE USERS: they are less likely to be distracted by the difference between whatever colours they see on their screen and the gray in the screenshots; and the gray looks less foreign to Mac users. I agree with what Jean says. Gray is a practical choice. I personally think that a consistent color for window titles and highlights would not really distract people - but if we really want to know this exactly we would have to start a user survey on this topic. Having our green more present in the user's eye is a marketing topic - and of course it is less important than good readability in the documentation. But if we can achieve both without real drawbacks, I'd go for it. But, also, after having reflected on this subject since past discussions on the documentation ML, I'm no longer totally convinced of the need to have total uniformity in screenshots, nor even of the need to have them all done under Linux rather than Windows. Providing that a little common sense is used, having some variety only emphasizes that LibreOffice runs on a large variety of platforms and under a wide variety of GUIs. +1 Common sense doesn't help against Microsoft's restrictions. So I don't want to promote Windows screenshots on our website and in our documentation. If a court would tell us, that the Microsoft website is illegal in claiming their rights on windows decoration and prohibiting partial screenshots, I wouldn't mind anymore. But until then (or until we have enough money to spend a certain amount on a lawyer investigating this topic) I'd stay with non-Windows screenshots. Variety is good, if we want to show the different platforms LibreOffice is able to run. But for documentation (except for platform specific topics) a consistent look-and-feel is as important as in marketing. If we want to be considered professional, we have to play in their league. Of course it might be possible to create one document with one set of screenshots and another with a different one. But as they should be consistent inside one document and they should be able to created by different people a clear and easy to follow description is all you need to create screenshots with similar look-and-feel on different distros and platforms. And if we want to improve branding by our screenshots too, people should know about the recommended color of window title bars. Extending this description by the theme and the font we'd like them to use is not a huge topic and helps new contributors to create good screenshots. Where should they know about the best resolution for different purposes if not from this description? Where to put the info about cutting off all the desktop background and providing just the single relevant window? All this can be subsumed in a short description or specification people can be pointed to when they tell us they want to create screenshots. And finally they want to know exactly what should their screenshot show. This needs to be covered by an additional explanation at the mailing list or in a table of needed screenshots on the wiki too. From all my personal experience new contributors like very much to get a hand on how to provide their first contribution. A wiki page containing all the necessary information would serve them best in my eyes. And from this first contact with the wiki and our lists they are much more likely to stay within the active part of the community than being told to do some screenshots on their standard OS and left alone with the additional questions. In reality, it's important for us not to raise the entry barriers to contribution too high, Right - but a wiki page explaining the best parameters for LibO screenshots is not a barrier, but a help in my eyes. because I notice that most people only contribute for a short period of time and then tend to fall away. In the most cases this has nothing to do with high entry barriers, but with lack of personal approach to them, not telling them where they find the best area to contribute with their skills and especially no reaction (or negative reaction) on the work they present. There are lot of areas that would love to see regular contributions, but leading newcomers towards manageable work with visible positive impact on the community or the product is something that needs time and dedication. The developers provide such a guidance by patch review and approval - based on their easy hacks with manageable pieces of work.They have quite high entry barriers (get LibreOffice to compile on their machine), but with personal guidance this works quite well. The number of regular work contributors (as opposed to mailing list contributors) is quite low. But this is not because of the
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
Hi Andreas, all, nobody has any opinion on this topic? Even a I don't like it would be a reaction... Best regards Bernhard Bernhard Dippold schrieb: Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke schrieb: Hi all, in the last days I get a new environment for a extension and template repository for LibreOffice working. You can find the new site currently at http://kermit.documentfoundation.org:9089/LibreOffice-Extensions-and-Templates/ There is only a placeholder for a logo on the site at the moment. A short time ago there was a proposal for a logo for the new repo but the discussion stops. Maybe with the new site at the doors a discussion how the logo of the new site should look like is easier ;-) Thanks for the reminder :-) I just designed a quick version based on the conference logo by Nik: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO_Extensions_Templates_Logo.png I didn't add anything to the main logo (because I think the reasons not to do so for the conference logo are still valid), but replaced the conference addition by just the words Extensions Templates. Here we could add another graphic - something to be used as reference to extensions and templates inside the product an on our website/wiki. I stayed with the words, emphasizing the X in extensions (like Xtra) and the T in templates, creating XT as possible acronym. All: Jump in, comment, improve, propose better ideas! I consider it easier to provide other ideas when there is at least one visual proposal... Best regards Bernhard PS: I created another wiki page to collect the proposals: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Extensions_templates_site_logo using the gallery option of the wiki - quite easy to use, I think... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
hi Klaus-Jürgen, * klaus-jürgen weghorn ol schrieb: Hi Bernhard, Am 25.06.2011 22:22, schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Hi Andreas, all, nobody has any opinion on this topic? Only a little thing: It is more a web banner than a logo, but very good. Andreas' request has not been for a mimetype icon that represents the extension on the desktop, but for a logo at the extension / templates website: http://extensions2.libreoffice.org/ To stay consistent with the logo for the LibOCon already used on the website, I kept the same sizes. http://conference.libreoffice.org/ Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi Marc, all, Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2011-06-24 17:34, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi Marc, On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 16:43:22 -0400 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com wrote: [...] At this point, we should try to accommodate the comments from Jean Hollis Weber on this topic and try to find a theme OR create our own theme for this purpose. Maybe none of the pre-packaged themes will work for what we need. I'm not sure that I agree with your statement here. Bernhards goal was to have a theme that is widely available, that looks nice and modern. Not only: I want to combine the needs of the documentation team with marketing and branding. And if it would be possible to increase the number of contributors to LibreOffice by an easy way to create the screenshots we need, this would be the cherry on the cake. If we can modify one of the prepackaged themes that would mean, that many people have access to it [...] I think the goal of the theme was to have one suitable for screenshots and for print. This is the tool we are seeking for the website and documentation team. Of course looking modern and clean would be also involved in this search. No - my main point is consistency as part of our branding. Otherwise it would be much easier: We could use the best theme for web presence and another one for documentation. Bot not only branding is important. It is crucial for our recognition in public - and thus a relevant marketing topic - that Windows user get the right impression about our product from the screenshots they see (whether they be on the website, in documentation, press articles or any other place). We shouldn't present a XP like style telling the people that we believe in old-fashioned UI (and backed by the MS Office 2003 menu structure our UI is based on). The theme will have to take into account that most of our new users fell comfortable with Windows 7. My point about creating our own theme, if we cannot find a suitable one, is that we can develop it, maintain it, and submit it to the kde-look.org and gnome-look.org sites and this will make it available through the KDE/Gnome system settings for anyone's use. ... for anyone on a GNU/Linux OS. [...] IMO, if we do find a theme, if at all possible through the design team, we could decide to adopt the theme, and, if the licence permits it, rename it, and, from then on, take on the task of maintaining the theme. This way, again, we are in control of our quality assurance as far as the screenshots are concerned. I don't want to take this task, as I still hope that a standard theme like Clearlook would serve our needs (perhaps with some minor modifications for printable screenshots) - but perhaps someone else would. With a standard theme (and a good documentation of any modification) the necessary manpower is minimized, and people can use it on their platform with minor effort. From a marketing point of view, if the theme were to incorporate the LibreOffice name, it would be a plus for us, from the point of view of branding. People would then talk about adopting the LibreOffice theme or LibreOffice ScreenShot theme or ... Getting our name out in the wild will get us more brand recognition. For marketing a Win7 like theme would be great - and I'd rather like to see more theming in the LibreOffice UI to fit with the user's personal desktop theme than in modifying the user's desktop appearance to fit with LibreOffice. This said - a theme that transports the LibO branding to the users' desktops would of course support our marketing, but I would think that this might rather be used by people already convinced that LibreOffice is the best software package on earth ;-) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] User Research
Hi Björn, *, Björn Balazs schrieb: Hi all, as promised here is our suggestion for a user survey we would like to comduct. As you can see, we can do these surveys in multiple languages. I tried the German one ;-) http://usability-methods.com/survey/943138fd9025419a9a34e7b23e4c6c21/ What I would like to get most feedback on is the last page. People that have participated in this survey, should easily be acquired for further surveys. I think sending them to the general LO lists page is not a good solution. Facebook, LinkedIn groups seem to be ok - what else can we offer? What other ideas do you have? We already discussed the idea of a dedicated survey announcement list. So I'd rather see a phrase like: If you are interested in more LibreOffice related survey, helping us to improve our product, please provide your mail address, so we can reach you when a new survey is available. People don't need to know if they will be subscribed to a mailing list they don't ever write a mail to - this list would just be the easiest way for us to reach them. Pointing to the project resources (website, design list - where the results of the survey will be released and discussed in a few weeks)is good, Facebook and LinkedIn too. But I wouldn't switch to the LibreOffice site while people think they didn't finish the survey. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] KDE and Gnome theme design for use of screenshots
Hi Marc, all, thank you very much for posting this topic here. I haven't been aware, but this seems to be something we should definitively be involved. Marc Paré schrieb: I was wondering if anyone on the design team could help out? The documentation team has adopted the following theme (XP-Silver theme)[1] for their use of screenshots. I was wondering if anyone could help in trying to make this theme more user friendly in the installation procedure. In my understanding a common lookfeel for all LibO screenshots in all the areas they are used (documentation, website, marketing material and press sources ...) is important for our visual identity. The necessity for installing a different theme to create screenshots is a hurdle I'd like to avoid if possible. I don't know if the XP-Silver theme has so much advantages over existing themes (perhaps even standard themes) on KDE and Gnome desktops, that it is worthwhile to install a different theme. Unfortunately a standard Windows theme will not be able to be used because of the unsolved legal problems with Windows EULA [1] - and I don't want to allow Microsoft to sue us some day when we caused them to lose more market share and they search for possibilities to harm us. As I think this topic should include different teams in the LibreOffice community, I'll start a new thread and invite the teams to join our discussion. [...] Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi again, I'll start with my thoughts on the topic. Fell free to provide yours. Once we finished this collection and basic discussion we should move the results to a dedicated wiki page for further reference. But for the direct discussion I prefer the mailing list more: Bernhard Dippold wrote: [...] Consistency is a relevant part of Visual Identity and therefore I'd like to ask you all provide your thoughts on 1) how such a UI theme should look like - It should be clean, balanced and friendly as we refer to LibreOffice on our branding wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Branding - It should look familiar to Windows users, so they don't consider the office suite as geeky and specially designed for GNU/Linux users. - It should look up-to-date to most users, so Windows XP style should be avoided (as it resembles too many people to an old-fashioned office suite). - It should be accessible for visually impaired people (at least for the most common cases like red-green color blindness). - It should have enough contrast to print well in greylevels. 2) what other conditions should be met - It should *not* use a standard Windows theme, because there are legal issues [1]. - It should be available for most users, because providing screenshots is a task that might be solved by new contributors on their first steps into our community (if we provide the necessary background to take the screenshots in a consistent way). 3) which existing UI theme would serve best as standard for screenshots Sigrid already uploaded a variety of themes to this wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/DE/Doku/Allgemein/Screenshots On the de-discuss list she voted for the theme Clearlooks because - it is the standard theme on Gnome - it has been ported to KDE as Cleanlooks - it is available for Windows XP too, so even Windows users can take screenshots without the legal restrictions mentioned above. (sorry, German:[2]) Do you think these 3 questions could lead to a consensus on a theme to be used? Should we add more points? Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg01950.html [2]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/msg06547.html (Mail-archive.com seems not to be reachable at the moment) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] [VI] Consistent theme for screenshots
Hi all, Marc mentioned a certain UI theme for screenshots in the documentation team [1], there is another thread on disc...@de.libo about the best UI theme for their documentation [2], Italo wants screenshots that serve our Windows users [3] and the wiki recommends screenshots for the website with a different theme [4]. In my eyes it is quite important to find a solution that fits all our needs in documentation (and its localizations), marketing material, website, press kit and any other place we need screenshots. Consistency is a relevant part of Visual Identity and therefore I'd like to ask you all provide your thoughts on 1) how such a UI theme should look like 2) what other conditions should be met 3) which existing UI theme would serve best as standard for screenshots Do you think these 3 questions could lead to a consensus on a theme to be used? Should we add more points? I'd like to see this discussion to take place here on the list - and send invitation mails to the teams involved in such a decision (documentation [Sigrid told be she would take this part], website, marketing, accessibility, projects, de-discuss) to join this discussion. Feel free to spread the message to any other team you think should be involved in this topic. Best regards Bernhard PS: I'll reply to the three points in my next message... [1]: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@global.libreoffice.org/msg00165.html [2]: http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss@de.libreoffice.org/msg06525.html [3]: ... mail not found in my local archive ... :-( relevant thread might be here: http://www.mail-archive.com/website@libreoffice.org/msg04745.html [4]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website#Contribution_and_Support (Mail-archive.com seems not to be reachable at the moment, so I add the TDF links too: [1]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg02398.html [2]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/de/discuss/msg06531.html [3]: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg04762.html -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Björn, all Björn Balasz wrote: Hi Bernhard, all, Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 23:09:33 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] This is a Free Software Project. As a design team, we will not need to convince ourselves about this need to change the GUI (we all agree on that), we will need to convince the people actually doing (and financing) it - the developers and the companies paying them. [...] if we can convince more than just a few developers by showing the needs our users to the entire community, this would get more developers interested and involved... I am argueing towards a single position we, the UI team needs to come up with. This position needs to shared by the whole team, paid and voluntary developers! In a community of volunteers shared positions by all team members are hard to establish, especially if you try to integrate designers and developers in one team. But your right: This needs to be our goal. And this will only be able to reached by clear (user) data and convincing scepticists by good and valid arguments. [...] I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add more fields than just one caption below each image. With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages to get the necessary information. A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each specific design element (if existing) and many more information. On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. Could you take care of this? Important to me seems to be that commitments are licenced correctly and allow to show mocks, designs and even prototypes at the same time. Don't know which technical solution is best for this... I can try to - but I'd really appreciate someone else to step in (too). My time is limited, but that's probably the same for each of our tema members. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Survey - Current Issues
Hi Björn, all, Thanks to all of you working on the survey topic! Scott, Javier: Do you think you could work with Björn's survey tool too? While he worked on this platform for quite a time now, it would be great if we could test it inside our team before we can point users, visitors and external people to this surveys. Surveys for such a large user base need a powerful and dedicated infrastructure to reach the goal of valid and easy to extract data we can use for further research and decision making. Björn Balazs schrieb: [...] let us try to move these surveys into a sustainable direction. This means that the results need to be available for all people and all times without too much effort. [...] As discussed with Bernhard and Christoph, we are working on a framework in which we can do these kind of surveys, which will be open and accessible for the whole team. Unfortunately it will take another 2-3 weeks of development (don't pin me on that!), before I can invite you to join this platform. Until then Isabel and me will be very happy to coordinate the set-up and conduction of a survey in a way that it will be accessible in future as well. So, I quickly set up your survey in the new framework. @All: please answer the survey there, so it will be accessible in future as well. Also, all that already have given an answer, please fill in your answers there again, to have them available in one place: bit.ly/iEkWrB As the survey infrastructure is not finalized, I think Björn wanted to avoid search engines to crawl for the link. So please add http://www. in front of the link above... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] [VI] Advertising space in Linux User Developer ...
Hi all, Michael Meeks asked me to forward his mail to the design list. Anybody interested in creating a A4 advert for LibreOffice during the next week? Best regards Bernhard Original-Nachricht Hi guys, So - first, good news; Russell has offered us a free full-page advert in Linux User and Developer - perhaps for a couple of months, which is fantastic. The required dimensions are A4 - so 210x297mm with a 5mm bleed all the way around. And I assume full colour. The deadline for the next issue is the ~30th of June - is that possible ? at least for the first month's copy ? It'd be fantastic to get LibreOffice promoted much more widely to the readership here. Sorry for the delay in forwarding; I've been somewhat buried recently; and I imagine Russell wants only the final deliverable, rather than to be CC'd on lots of discussion. I assume too that SVG would be a reasonable delivery format (?). Thanks, Michael. Forwarded Message From: Russell Barnes russell.bar...@imagine-publishing.co.uk To: michael.me...@novell.com Subject: Re: GNOME 3 advert Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:21:53 +0100 Hi Michael, No cost or complication on your part - we supply two ad spots for projects on a monthly basis to give a little something back to the communities involved. Obviously we hope it strengthens relations between us and the projects in question - oiling the cogs of a working relationship as it were. I know this issue is probably impossible now, so shall we aim for the end of the month - say complete copy with sign off by 30th June? Do you think that's realistic for your marketing people? Something we can run for a few issues to come (and you'd be welcome to make changes/updates on a monthly basis if you'd wish). Thanks in advance. Russell Barnes Editor russell.bar...@imagine-publishing.co.uk +44 (0)1202 586272 +44 (0)7904 766523 www.linuxuser.co.uk www.totalpcgaming.com Imagine Publishing Ltd, Richmond House, 33 Richmond Hill, Bournemouth, Dorset BH2 6EZ Registered company 5374037 (England): VAT No 864 6042 18 Directors: Damian Butt, Steven Boyd, Mark Kendrick, Alistair Ramsay, Harry Dhand, Sam Watkinson -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Joed, all jlopez777 schrieb: we can host it here www.libreofficedesign.weebly.com We should try to keep as many resources as possible in the LibreOffice/TDF infrastructure. Individual contributors can't assure future commitment and they should not feel forced to keep their resources open for the community when they had to leave our team for one reason or another. Backups and archives are another point why I strongly prefer our wiki for tasks manageable there. If we lack additional resources, we might ask for hosting them on the TDF infrastructure. But galleries are able to be presented on the wiki, so I don't see any need for external tools. With our Visual Elements page http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements we already use images linked to other wiki pages than the image files, so this might be a starting point... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
Hi Andreas, all, Andreas Mantke schrieb: Hi all, in the last days I get a new environment for a extension and template repository for LibreOffice working. You can find the new site currently at http://kermit.documentfoundation.org:9089/LibreOffice-Extensions-and-Templates/ There is only a placeholder for a logo on the site at the moment. A short time ago there was a proposal for a logo for the new repo but the discussion stops. Maybe with the new site at the doors a discussion how the logo of the new site should look like is easier ;-) Thanks for the reminder :-) I just designed a quick version based on the conference logo by Nik: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO_Extensions_Templates_Logo.png I didn't add anything to the main logo (because I think the reasons not to do so for the conference logo are still valid), but replaced the conference addition by just the words Extensions Templates. Here we could add another graphic - something to be used as reference to extensions and templates inside the product an on our website/wiki. I stayed with the words, emphasizing the X in extensions (like Xtra) and the T in templates, creating XT as possible acronym. All: Jump in, comment, improve, propose better ideas! I consider it easier to provide other ideas when there is at least one visual proposal... Best regards Bernhard PS: I created another wiki page to collect the proposals: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Extensions_templates_site_logo using the gallery option of the wiki - quite easy to use, I think... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] I just designed a quick version based on the conference logo by Nik: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibO_Extensions_Templates_Logo.png And here is the source, if you want to play with it... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Formalized team work structures
Hi Philip (H), Phil (J), all, Phil Howards wrote: Bernard, All, An initial draft of a wiki page prototype for new ideas is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/IdeaWorkflow Thanks for this structured approach for a general template. And thanks to Christoph for the template's structure ;-) It's just the DocumentBackground page stripped of its content. I'm in two minds about whether it is better to comment out everything from Specification onwards, leaving just Summary and Discussion visible initially. But that's something to do once we've finished deciding on the page. I would leave them visible, but add something like can be specified later to the other sections. This way people know they can work on these parts if they want to, but it's no problem to leave them empty at the beginning. Things I like from the DocumentBackground page: . Progresses from idea to implementation . Discussion section near the top means interested parties can read the relevant threads and handles the transition of an idea from discussion list to whiteboard. . Implementation history near the bottom lets the page tell the story of where an idea has got to, if it is to be implemented in stages, for example. . Open items gives space for leftover items so they don't slip through the net. Perhaps links to mockups (much of the whiteboard use in the initial stages) would go in Discussion. If Discussion includes all the different alternatives and approaches I would like to move it down below Specification. A 1-liner in Specification like Task still in discussion would probably not retract interest from Discussion, but would allow to define the specification finally decided on to become more prominent in the end (when discussion is just a part of it's history). Using whiteboard wikis for the process is great, because its asynchronous nature permits sporadic development in the same way wikipedia does. Also the specification can be fleshed out as it is developed in the discussions, ready for implementation. It hink the concept in my mind is coalescence - from an idea of a change to the details of its implementation. The workflow should be changed and refined to suit the process. If longer-standing members will consistently mark up a whiteboard as it progresses, we may be able to leave just the Summary and Discussion sections on the workflow template, and let people reuse the latest whiteboard that they like, to avoid having one more thing to keep up to date, or being too prescriptive. I start to think of the main whiteboad page more and more as a table: with a field showing the status of all the entries. If a entry has matured and finalized by the developers they should be moved to a implemented specifications page... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Design Tenets Proposal
Hi Scott, all thanks for bringing us back to the basics we need if we want to reach out to a general approach from individual ideas and great mockups. It's really superb to see the different UI rework proposals with lots of good ideas and proposals. But turning the multitude of them into one optimized design might take more time and dedication we imagine at the moment. And as you pointed out we need to define the main goals and rules for the overall UI design before we start to look at the individual mockups and design elements. Scott Pledger wrote: Hey all, One thing that I've noticed is that we have a lot of great redesign proposals floating around, but we have yet to establish a true direction for the Libre Office platform. +1 Someone recently posted this video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl9kD693ie4 ) which really made me realize the importance of having specific long-term goals for software design. Thanks for this link! It contains a multitude of interesting information we can use for our work too. Even if these videos have a total length of about 1 1/2 hours they are really worthwhile following them. Therefore, I wanted to propose a few simple goals that I think LibreOffice ought to have for its design as we move forward (maybe even for the 4.0 release) as well as the basic tenets that I think we can use to help achieve these goals. I think it would be worthwhile to put these goals and tenets on the wiki and refine them there. Would you be able to create a wiki page (perhaps starting as subpage to your userpage) containing this information? So, here we go: *The Goals:* - *Make LibreOffice easy to use while retaining its power.* I don't know if it is reasonable to have these two topics linked together so tigthly. Ease of use is of course one of the most important goals. But it relates reciprocally to the complexity of the task. If we come to a point where these two goals (ease of use and powerful feature-richness) are so oppositional that we had to reduce the importance of one in favour of the other, which one would be supported? This is by far one of the biggest complaints I have when I suggest that my clients use LibreOffice - they don't understand where things are in the menu/toolbar hierarchy. [...] I would not introduce details in this phase of the discussion, because they might lead to a narrowed view on the topic. Ease of use is far more than toolbars/menus: numbers of mouse clicks, mouse distances, tastature access/accessibility come to my mind - and there are even more like colors and contrast, positioning of objects and so on: Nearly every modification to the UI has an impact in this field. - *Lead current trends in technology, don't just follow.* [...] Instead of copying another office suite, let's pave the way for others to build on. While I fully support the second part of the statement, I don't want to have the first one as part of our main goals. I want to see LibreOffice having the *best* UI, not the newest or trendiest one. There are parts in other UIs being very interesting and clever. We can include them (if legally possible) in our general concept, if they fit well. If LibreOffice will be a trendsetter or not depends on the fact if we find *better* solutions than all the other designer out there (or if we manage to include them more consistently in our product). So just following others is as wrong as setting trends in technology while other existing ideas manage to fulfill the necessary task much better... - *Help people to be more efficient.* This is really important if we want to get LibreOffice used in more businesses and schools, and is ultimately the best way to get any piece of software adopted. This is tightly related to ease of use, so I'd combine these two goals. What I'd like to add as goals: - * Interoperability on different platforms.* LibreOffice wants to be present in a similar way on all the major platforms. Even if user switch from one platform to another, they should be able to work the way they are used to. A major task will be definition of fixed (platform independent) and OS-adapted (platform specific) parts in the UI in order to find a common way that provides LibreOffice's branding and behavior at the same time as smooth integration in the platform (with UI elements, behavior etc) - *Don't forget actual users for possible future ones.* Microsoft lost milions of users (to OOo/LibreOffice and others) because they didn't take into account, that people tend to keep the Ui they are used to. Even with a totally new approach we should be able to find the tasks in a similar way to the old one. - *Let people have fun.* Working with LibreOffice should provide positive feelings - have a look at the slogan we positioned on the website: Make it just work, and look great, too! *The Tenets:* - *Allow users to focus on the content,
Re: [libreoffice-design] Hi everybody!
Hi Isabel, all I just moderated your mail to the list - sorry for the delay. If you didn't already, please send a mail to design+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org and reply to the confirmation mail. After this you'll get all the mails sent to the list and you're able to post to the list without waiting for moderation. Isabel Menz schrieb: Hi all! As others before me I'm new here and I'd like to introduce myself! That's great! Welcome aboard! Did you already have a look at our wiki area: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design And it would be highly appreciated, if you could add some lines about yourself on http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Team . Together with Björn Balazs I'm gonna work on the user research by developing and realising surveys (as he already mentioned)! Im still studying to get my MSc in Human Factors in Berlin, so I cant impress with many years of experience, but I hope, I can help and we will find some interesting facts about the users that hopefully can help to improve the software! We definitely need people like you! Join us, comment on and contribute to any topic you like. I'm looking forward to your postings! Best regards Bernhard PS: If you don't want to get all the mails sent to the list in your inbox, but prefer following the list via Gmane (when it works again), Nabble or the archives, just subscribe with a nomail tag in the subscription request (design+subscribe-nom...@global.libreoffice.org) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] User Research
Hi Björn, * Björn Balazs schrieb: Hi *, Am Mittwoch, 15. Juni 2011, 17:03:04 schrieb planas: To add to your end user surveys, could Twitter help? Sending a link in a tweet about a user survey. Using the users group may get the group has problems not the ones who have none and skew the data. Not that we should ignore the user issues for ideas and suggestions. Yeah - Twitter is a great idea! An idea I just had: why dont we establish a mailing list? We could ask users that do participate in a survey (e.g. because they clicked on a twitter link) to sign into the mailing list, so we can easily ask them to participate on further surveys? Do you want to use this mailing list for communication or rather as a specialized announcement list? I don't like to spread discussions on even more mailing lists, but some kind of newsletter subscription for these topics does make sense IMHO. Who could do this? Florian? Probably - perhaps the other admins too. If we agree that such a tool would be reasonable, we should ask for help on the website@global mailing list. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Formalized team work structures
Hi Phil, all I'm really sorry, that I don't have the time to contribute to the numbers of highly interesting and active threads here on the list. But I don't even manage to read all the mails I receive on the most important LibO lists. (I read all the mails here, even if I don't reply). This mail (sent already three weeks ago [1]) needs some follow-up, and it is important enough to deserve it's own thread. Phil Jackson schrieb (in the thread flying the ship ...: Hi Bernhard [...] If possible, I'd like to see a degree of formalisation of how the design team will work together with suggestions of stages for taking an idea and transforming it into a form that we have agreement on for submission to the pool of programmers. I support the idea of a common approach for proposals and idea development leading to a final stage agreed upon by the team and proposed to the developers in a way they can work on them. This is about building relationships between the design team members but also between the design team and programmers so they feel part of the design team. It's like selling ideas to management - well articulated ideas with supporting evidence should make a difference in getting done what the Design Team thinks by consensus is necessary to improve the product. It's all about convincing one single developer that a proposal is important, so he is interested in coding in this area. And with some kind of formalism this might be easier - especially as we are in a period where several important ideas are thrown together on the mailing list, while the next steps (collective work, integration with existing designs, UI / UX areas covered...) are not clear to the participants. Here are some suggestions for stages; 1) Someone comes up with an idea :-) should be the basic... 2) Idea is posted on Design/WhiteBoards and emailed to team members In my eyes the /WhiteBoard wiki page should become a table of links to all the items that have been proposed by people really interested in working on them. We definitely need another area, where people can post their ideas for improvement who can't spend the time or have the expertise to work on these ideas. Such ideas need a team member being attracted by the topic and interested in working on it. If there is nobody interested / able to work in it, it might be reactivated by someone scrolling the whiteboard site... 3) Idea is discussed and debated with ample opportunity to test idea and gather arguments for and against ... and improved by the input of other team members. 4) Goes to vote stage by design members after member proposes that they do this - if passed goes to Stage 5) I don't think that we need a formal voting on each and every idea. Small changes should need much less formalism than larger modifications. Consensual discussion on the list will lead to a positive feeling of the team towards this idea. In such a case formal voting is not necessary. 5) A Design/Whiteboards paper for the idea if constructed giving a formalised breakdown of the idea - i.e. Overview, Introduction, Main Body with evidence, conclusions (why idea is a good one) and references/bibliography. Designing a mockup to show my ideas to people dedicated to design and UX is not very hard in comparison to preparing a description of modifications leading to developers interest and understanding. 6) Submitted to programmers pool for their feedback. If possible, developers should be involved much earlier. Knowledge about the necessary amount of work on this topic is important for us too. And they are not only asked for feedback - we should try to attract them to work on this topic. Otherwise the idea will need to become pushed by someone else - without any guarantee that it will be worked on sometimes in the future. 7) Followup We need to make this reasonably professional without turning it into a Phd. It makes it transparent for all. I imagine a wiki page containing these steps (perhaps as a follow-up an other introductory wiki page with all the information a new team member searches for) and all the necessary information about how to attract developers for such work. Christoph already mentioned some kind of design Easy-hacks, an idea we definitely need to follow. I know that some of these things are already done, but using a system will make it more likely that progress is seen to be made on some very interesting and beneficial ideas. What does everybody think? I think we should try it - and find out about the areas we can improve and further LibO without all these formalisms... Best regards Bernhard Cheers Phil Jackson [1]: http://go.mail-archive.com/80STRNtdj-ankO94T0iTN0CD_MU= -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to
Re: [libreoffice-design] Flying the ship... [please everybody, post a short reply]
Hi Vamsi, Phil, all sorry for this short reply (and top-posting), but I'm still more than busy with the discussion on how our larger community will evolve after the OpenOffice.org donation to Apache and the license shift from LGPL to Apache V 2.0 where every (free or corporate) entity (including Microsoft) can take the code without being obliged to contribute anything back. I marked Phil's mail for replying once I read it first - it is very reasonable and leads to more transparency in our team to have such a kind of formal guideline. What I'd like to see is a how we work area in the wiki we can point new members to - being quite similar to a formal paper, but more friendly to new contributors... Best regards Bernhard Vamsi Kodali schrieb: +1 to Bernhard. Now that that's out of the way, I request you to please consider Phil's proposal. I think that almost all (if not all) the steps he mentioned are being followed now too, just in a unorganized way. I believe that bringing a organized and managed scheme for new ideas and conveying it to the people involved in a clear manner will tidy up and improve the productivity of the entire process. Thanks, Vamsi. On 05/25/2011 04:59 PM, Phil Jackson wrote: Hi Bernhard We need some structure and therefore we need someone unofficially or officially to lead it. I'm more than happy for you to take on that role. If possible, I'd like to see a degree of formalisation of how the design team will work together with suggestions of stages for taking an idea and transforming it into a form that we have agreement on for submission to the pool of programmers. This is about building relationships between the design team members but also between the design team and programmers so they feel part of the design team. It's like selling ideas to management - well articulated ideas with supporting evidence should make a difference in getting done what the Design Team thinks by consensus is necessary to improve the product. Here are some suggestions for stages; 1) Someone comes up with an idea 2) Idea is posted on Design/WhiteBoards and emailed to team members 3) Idea is discussed and debated with ample opportunity to test idea and gather arguments for and against 4) Goes to vote stage by design members after member proposes that they do this - if passed goes to Stage 5) 5) A Design/Whiteboards paper for the idea if constructed giving a formalised breakdown of the idea - i.e. Overview, Introduction, Main Body with evidence, conclusions (why idea is a good one) and references/bibliography. 6) Submitted to programmers pool for their feedback. 7) Followup We need to make this reasonably professional without turning it into a Phd. It makes it transparent for all. I know that some of these things are already done, but using a system will make it more likely that progress is seen to be made on some very interesting and beneficial ideas. What does everybody think? Cheers Phil Jackson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] 'adopt-o-meter' for the download page
Hi Kendy, all, Jan Holesovsky schrieb: [...] [Having said that, it still differs a bit from the original idea - I hoped to have a set of 3 images that we wouldn't have to update with every upload of new version - we would be able just to stick it next to the download links, but still, this is good :-)] It took me quite a while to understand what you mean. Did you think about something like this? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/c/c4/Download_page_adapt-o-meter.png I uploaded the tachometers to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Adapt-o-meter_early.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Adapt-o-meter_standard.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Adapt-o-meter_conservative.png The source file is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Adapt-o-meter_tacho.svg Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Nik, * I hope you don't mind that I renewed your ZIP file with the original green values from RGB that have changed slightly by converting them to CMYK and back to RGB. I added a whitespace area to the logo to avoid interference with other graphics and text around the logo. This area is larger than the one on the main logo (from half the width to the full width of the symbol), because in the right part the logo is higher (due to the Eiffel tower and the subline). Even if the website needs a logo cut down slightly, I think we should ask for the full size wherever possible. What do you think? Nik: Could you have a look at the ZIP content, if it is still the quality you provided? Could you or somebody else add the whitespace to the EPS files and the greylevel/inverted files too? Do you think we need SVG files in CMYK color space? (As Inkscape doesn't include anything but RGB in it's files, I can't create them - perhaps take Nik's SVG as CMYK? Then they should get the whitespace too and be added back to the ZIP file.) Nik schrieb: Hi all, [...] I've uploaded a zip file containing EPS/PNG/SVG formats of the logo in colour and greyscale variations; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Conf-logo.zip Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] New default template for Impress?
Hi Alex, * Alexander Wilms schrieb: Hi Christoph, thanks for all the tips and links. I have to say that this new template looks quite cool, too :)(http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Impress_Template_-_Bachianas_Brasileiras_No1_-_Green_Theme.odp). Yes, indeed. With it's colorful areas it might aim to a different audience (or context of presentation), but I like it too. What I don't understand are the two-parted slides with green an white backgrounds. Perhaps they are used for images on one and text on the other side - but Paulo Jose will have had a use-case for them... I started to make a business-orientaed template based on your slideshow. However I didn't know how to edit the background image. I unzipped the otp and found all the single visual elements used. Does this mean the background images are defined in some of the xml files? I' m a bit confused as I have read somewhere else that the backgrounds would consist a single bitmap each. You never need to extract any part of the ODF files (if you don't want to manipulate them without LibreOffice). What you need is to edit the master slides. They contain single bitmaps with the triangles. Christoph probably copied and pasted them, I don't know if they are arranged manually... Thats what I've achieved so far: http://ubuntuone.com/p/w5D/ I like the look for LibreOffice related presentations. Don't know if it works for unrelated presentations too. And for a default template we probably need to have Christoph's approval to use the design and it's elements under public domain license - with the present licenses (I think it's CC-by-SA, LGPL 3+ and MPL) corporate presentations with internal content might have to be considered as non-compliant (as they can't be licensed similarly). Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Discussion via Chat/Skype
Hi Joed, all, jlopez777 schrieb: Hello, I would like to get to know those who are part of the team a little more as well as their ideas and views on LO and related topics. Anyone interested? At least form my side there is lot of interest for online discussion. Unfortunately there are two restrictions that come to my mind: Time - a very important topic, because the online exchange of opinions and ideas should never lead to reducing the importance of our mailing list. The reason for this is the second restriction: Timezones - we are a team spread over the world, living in very different time zones. While I'm in Europe, Marc is in North America, Paulo in South America, Nik in Asia and Ivan in Pacific Area. There is no chance to get all of us together at any time of the day (or night). Therefore we can't discuss or decide anything finally online, but need to have the discussion on the mailing list too. If so, simply let me know so we can exchange skype or aim or whatever is used. Thanks! We have a general IRC channel on freenode: irc://freenode/documentfoundation It doesn't seem to be used by a lot of people, so there is no problem to use it for design topics. If we're going to establish and use such a resource more or less regularly, we might ask for creation of a dedicated IRC channel like libreoffice-design. (In fact we could already use it - just open the following link: irc://freenode/libreoffice-design - but the name is not secured, so everybody can open this channel even if he is not related to our team) I think this channel fits quite well with the needs for online contact. Of course it would be easier to have a possibility to share uploads so we can discuss design topics with shared visuals. But we can use our wiki to upload such drafts and proposals, as this is the place they belong when the topic is raised on the mailing list. Given that Skype is proprietary and other (open source) protocols might be not available on all platforms or not stable enough to be used from all over the world, the solution IRC + wiki is easy and should work quite well (we have some experience from OOo times...) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Charles, I haven't been able to catch up with the mails in my inbox (still about 100 to read), but this has to be addressed, if nobody repiled in the meantime: Charles Schulz wrote: [...] I 'll use the logo as it is on the conference pages and brochures for the moment.. You're free to use any logo for private usage. But if you want to have an offiicial LibreOffice logo for the conference, you are *not* the entity to decide about it. There has not been any agreement on a final draft by the Design Team. Without this agreement there is no official logo. And I'm quite sure that the SC would *not* have a decision on a topic that should be decided in a dedicated team, as long as there are no opposite opinions in this team hindering them from working. Even if there is no formalized workflow in the Design Team, we believe in consensus or at least broad agreement on all important topics. If someone else decides on work in progress (even if it is a SC member), this would resemble many of the Design Team members of the OOo community, where Sun/Oracle decided about nearly all central artwork in the product. This led to a situation where nearly all gifted artists turned their back on OpenOffice.org. I will do anything necessary to avoid such a situation here at LibreOffice. So please tell us a deadline when you need the final logo (but let us at least three days to decide internally) and you'll get a conference logo you can call official. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Ribbons and Background Color UX
Hi all, sorry for stepping in here so late, especially as this topic has been discussed over and over again in OOo UX (Renaissance) and here in LibreOffice too. Irrelevant of the fact that some people understand the word ribbon as a red flag they start to rant against, we neither copy any competitor's design decisions without really good reasons nor we drop support to our present users just because we want to establish something new and cool. I'm quite sure that we'll be able to combine a static menu structure with a context sensitive one and provide this to the user in an easy-to-use and eye-pleasing way. And this structure will be at least as configurable as the present UI. You all are right that this needs thorough development and research - it's one of our most important tasks for the next months and years. But please stop discussing the word ribbon and what MS created by using this word - this keeps us away from real work on LibreOffice design. Create a wiki page containing our UI goals - for all of our target groups. Start defining the context sensitive areas and find out how they can be accessed via static menus without double effort. Have a look what Renaissance already did on OOo - and use these results as basis for your own work. We have many areas where our presence is really important - this topic is one of them. But we should avoid to discuss details like graphical approach, menu positioning and so on: The first thing to do is defining the functionality - form will follow function when we really know how it should work... Best regards Bernhard PS: And please keep in mind, that we need to convince our developers to work in this area - otherwise none of our ideas will come true... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Flying the ship... [please everybody, post a short reply]
Hi all, Within such a vivid team, things evolve quite fast - it's great to see what can be done here in short time frames! With this mail I want to reply to Nik and his suggestion in the thread about the mail subject [tags]. If this mail is too long for you, please scroll down to the end, read and reply there. Nik wrote: I know Christoph wasn't too keen on the Leadership thing, but you're flying the ship solo now. We can get more done if the rest of us focus on Designing, and you focus on steering. I didn't want to be called leader too, thought of senior team member instead (this would include more people experienced in this special kind of collaboration). But you're right. There are more important decisions to be taken by our team - and the minor ones (with minimal or no impact on our work) should be just established. My time is limited - and especially during these days with uncertainty by Oracle's announcements and the remnant OOo community thinking about re-unification - so I can't reply to all mails in the way I want to, I can't draw mockups and drafts of what I have in mind, I don't even can create the website and wiki pages I consider important for our work. So I have to focus. And if you all want me to focus on steering - and if this would help you to focus on designing - I'll try to fulfill these wishes. I will certainly not stop throwing in some drafts and ideas (sometimes we just need to see what we don't want to become true in order to start contributing our ideas), I will comment on topics where some important points have not been mentioned in my eyes. But I will try to reduce the number of my mails, when my thoughts have already been mentioned by one of your postings. You will not have me in a position of being the one and only deciding on official artwork or to approve a certain design - this is one of the most important tasks for our team in my eyes. But I will step in if I see a possible move in the general branding language or any other important area ... The first case I'll try to follow this way is the Conference Logo: I will not comment on the thread (even if Nik asked me directly). I really like the way you all work collaboratively on the design and you are very near to the final draft, I think. The general question of two-parted logos should be discussed in a separate thread (we can re-use them for team logos too), but in my eyes this is a good idea. So I want to come to an end and invite the people scrolling down to start reading here again: Conclusion -- Work might become easier and less distractive, if someone would focus on structure, orientation and organization of the design team, while all the others can focus on designing. All of you know me as someone with high interest in collaborative work and concordant decision making. I took care of the members of the OOo Art and Branding Project without being formally approved and we had some impact these days. Here our tasks are much broader and more important, because there is no main sponsor art team responsible for all the central design decisions. I still feel hesitant to any official title and position, but if you want me to decide on less important topics, if you feel represented by me talking to other parts of the community, I'll assume the duty of steering our team. You will have to post your opinion even (no: especially) if it is different from mine. If I propose a draft or design, it's quality is nothing better than your's and it should be criticized in the same way as any other design. If you think you can live with an unofficial lead and the conditions I describe above, please reply here: (And if you don't, your reply is even more important!) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi all, Bernhard Dippold schrieb: Hi Charles, all, thanks for the request - anybody has some spare time and ideas to work on this topic? Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Hello Design Team, As you know we will have our first LibreOffice conference in October 2011 in Paris. Do you think it would be possible to design a logo for the event? We may have either one specific logo, or a generic logo for all the future LibreOffice conference with only the name of the location changing or slightly amended graphically. While Charles told me, that he personally don't like the skyline graphics we had on some of the OOoCon logos, I think it would be good for our branding, if we had a generic logo dedicated to all LibreOffice conferences with some modifiable parts: The main visual should stay the LibreOffice logo (with TDF subline as official community event). As Charles already mentioned, the name of the location is necessary. I'd like to see the number in the line of LibreOffice conferences too, but this might mean that we have to localize the logo (1st / 1ere / 1ste)... Additionally I think of a constant visual element for all conferences as well as an area for a dedicated graphic for the specific event. I don't know if I'll have the time to work on this topic during the next days (I'll have to attend a congress at Hamburg until Tuesday), so I would be glad if you don't hesitate to comment, draft and design... Now I took the time and tried to do something graphically to show you what I mean: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOCon_logo.png Central part is the official LibreOffice logo - even with the other content of the logo, the main focus stays on this logo. I added a part of the scatter motif (tried first to just cut it off at the border, but it didn't look good), moved some of the triangles around to keep a more or less balanced impression. This part could be considered as the constant part of the logo - perhaps as basis for other community logos too. Didn't add 1st or 1ere, because this would have to become translated and could have not been positioned in front of the LibO logo, what would be necessary IMHO if we want to call the conference 1st LibreOffice Conference instead of LibreOffice 1st Conference. Finally added a graphic that could be considered as specific for Paris (in fact it isn't - the barét hat can be taken as symbol for France in general, but for other regions too) - just to show you what I meant with a specific graphic. I positioned the hat in a way that it resembles the cut-off corner of the document symbol. In general I wanted to keep the visual impression of our branding: Light, open, free and following our color language. Do you think I managed to describe what I want to convey with the conference logo? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Obsoleted Mac installer icon
Hi Korrawit, all Korrawit Pruegsanusak schrieb: Hello all, From this bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36906 The Mac installer icon is currently an OOo icon located at http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/components/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns So, which file should we replace this? Do we have to draw new icon, or just copy from another file? (and where is that file?) All the new icons have been integrated in the package by Thorsten Behrens following the related bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229 The installer icon is already used for the main LibreOffice download and even in the German language pack I didn't see the wrong icon (but I might be wrong). The right icon is a document symbol with a green download arrow. I can't point you to the png file in the size you need (probably Thorsten can), but here is the SVG source file containing the icon (second column from the right). Hope this helps, if not, please come back. It would be really great if we could replace the wrong icon before the final release of LibreOffice 3.4.0 Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hello Charles, all, Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Hello Bernhard, Le Mon, 23 May 2011 17:49:42 +0200, Bernhard Dippoldbernh...@familie-dippold.at a écrit : [...] In general I wanted to keep the visual impression of our branding: Light, open, free and following our color language. Do you think I managed to describe what I want to convey with the conference logo? You did, at least for me. To me the logo is enough like that and it's beautiful and simple. But let's get rid of the hat, it's awful and nobody knows why people think French wear that hat :-) Could you provide any other visual idea to describe Paris (without a skyline you don't like)? Such an element in the logo could allow the team working on future conferences to identify better with their dedicated logo... Nevertheless I removed the hat: Version with cut-off corner: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/archive/6/6a/20110523192740%21LibOCon_logo2.png Version with full corner: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOCon_logo2.png Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: UX collaboration
Hi Marc, hi Gustavo, Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard and Gustavo Many thanks Gustavo for your generous offer. It is very appreciated. Bernhard could we also see if Gustavo's Tactio Interaction Design be added to our supporters page[1] on the TDF wiki page? Reading Florian's request for adding a statement to this page: http://go.mail-archive.com/wwkakBiAxgBaciMwsLDmUhAoRFc= I think, such a request should be done on the webs...@libreoffice.org list. Gustavo could then perhaps add a supporting comment to the listing, if this is agreeable to him. To my understanding Gustavo has to agree to any listing, even without a comment. But a comment like the one's already posted there would be appreciated, I suppose. I am not sure if there is a certain protocol to follow, perhaps just sending a follow up mail to a SC member? I don't know about such a protocol. I'd start with a mail to the website list. If this doesn't work, you might address Florian or the SC. Best regards Bernhard Cheers Marc [1] http://www.documentfoundation.org/supporters/ Le 2011-05-18 17:21, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Gustavo, all, welcome to our team! Gustavo Gawryszewski schrieb: Hello, My name is Gustavo Gawryszewski, I'm the founder of Tactio Interaction Design, which is a brazilian interaction design and usability consultancy and local leader of the IxDA Rio de Janeiro chapter. With such a background I'm quite sure you will feel quite comfortable here in our group. We are professionals and amateurs in design and user experience working together in the related areas of branding / visual design and UX / UI design. Even if our wiki is not in a final state, most of our work is presented there - and discussed here on this mailing list. We were planning to help with the project, That's great! Help is what we need most :-) I thought that It could be useful to run some usability tests so you guys have more data available to work on. This would be very useful indeed. Such data will give our comments and opinion on coding efforts with UI implication more importance and might lead to a situation where developers start to ask us how our different target groups will react to changes they develop. At the moment I don't have a feature in mind where we might need usability testing instantly. But if you stay with us for some time here on the list, you will find out about topics where your expertise and usability testing might be helpful. If we don't see these points (or don't think about asking you), please step in and post your opinion! I could work on the interaction design too, but as we know that is a very large and complex project and we don't have that many resources available to help. Even if such contributions would be helpful too, I think it is much more important to contribute with presence and expertise inside our team - if you are interested in being a part of it. We all are volunteers, spending more or less of our spare time to further LibreOffice and improve it by committing our dedication and expertise to the community. I would like to know from you guys what it would be more relevant If we can ask for support with usability tests from time to time, this would be great. I CC'd Christoph, our main UX expert (on parental leave at the moment), to inform him about your offer. Best regards and welcome again! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Marc, * Marc Paré schrieb: Le 2011-05-16 16:24, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Jean, * Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: Thanks, Bernhard, for moving this request to the proper list. What is the Motif you mention? I am not familiar with this term. It's a graphical element we want to be used in LibreOffice branding: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Motif It can be used in parts or as a whole and fits quite well with other design ideas - keeping the general language of our branding.[] IMO, we should consider the motif a very important part of our branding tools giving it as much importance as the LibreOffice icon. The motif is meant to become a central part of our branding, but I don't think it should be handled like the icons. We could perhaps give guidelines as to white space suggested around the scatter so that we are all using it with a certain amount of consistency. The guidelines Nik provided on the Motif page (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) already cover the intended use quite well IMHO. The motif should be used not only as a whole, but in parts and cut-off, so whitespace rules don't make really sense. But we should look at it's consistency - and when someone finds out about a usage that might not follow our general branding language, please tell us, so we can try to define better rules. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Presenting new piece for publication
Hi Drew, all drew schrieb: Hi, If you look at the picture of the NA-DVD kit Tim posted the other day note the small pamphlet inserted inside the cover: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Na-dvd-lightscribe.jpg It is the pamphlet at the left side, isn't it? The new design is much better! ;-) The team has been working on the final art work for the phamplet: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/8/86/Na-dvd-insert.pdf So - open for any comments from the design list? I like it (even if I didn't print and fold it to get an impression when it is folded together). It conveys our branding language very well. Just two remarks (not to be taken as requests to change, but only as input - perhaps you already took them into account) about the front page (right third of page 2): At the bottom Mac OS X seems to have more distance from GNU/Linux than GNU/Linux from Microsoft Windows. Perhaps the OS X characters are a bit larger than the rest?. And: Did you have a certain reason to use these colors for the languages in the NA DVD logo? While green, red and blue are easy to recognize, did you think of using some colors from the LibreOffice branding colors? (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Colors) (and avoiding Green as our main color for the languages might produce a more equal impression about the languages) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Presenting new piece for publication
sent too early... Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] Could you imagine that the source of this pamphlet might be helpful for others working on LibreOffice pamphlets in future? In this case uploading it to the wiki as well might be a good idea. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Presenting new piece for publication
Hi Drew, * drew schrieb: On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 11:36 -0400, drew wrote: On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:58 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Drew, all drew schrieb: Hi, Just two remarks (not to be taken as requests to change, but only as input - perhaps you already took them into account) about the front page (right third of page 2): At the bottom Mac OS X seems to have more distance from GNU/Linux than GNU/Linux from Microsoft Windows. Perhaps the OS X characters are a bit larger than the rest?. hmm - shouldn't be...will ensure. Good Eyes... OK- both the pdf and odt files are updated with that fix and some new colors in the graphic.. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Na-dvd-insert.pdf Thanks! (and for the .odt too) You know that the PDF has been exported with different parameters than the previous ones? The size has been reduced to 1/4 (670 kB from 2.8 MB), and you can see the minor quality when scaling it to more than 100%. For preview it's okay, but I wouldn't use it for printing... Best regards Bernhard PS: I'd like to see this pamphlet included in the visual elements gallery: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements Even if the page doesn't exist by now, might this be the right place for it? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Flyers -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] new team member (was:[VI] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference)
Hi Joed, welcome to our team! jlopez777 schrieb: Hello all, I am new here so please forgive me if I am not using proper form. Just a small correction: If you want to start a new topic, just send a mail to the list without replying to an existing one. This avoids the mail clients to handle your posting as reply to the existing thread and people not interested in the general topic of the thread will get notice about your mail (what you did is called thread hijacking, but you won't be punished for than ;-)) I had a question, basically, we can bring up anything regarding design and user experience? Yes! (In an new thread with proper subject it is most likely to get noticed). Or are there submailing lists regarding certain topics? No - we want to keep all the topics on this mailing list. Just add short tags to the subject as you see here: [UX] for user experience, the tag for Visual Identity/Branding Design needs a few more thoughts, I'll start a voting in the other thread. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] voting on Visual Design tag (was:Re: Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?)
Hi Marc, all, While [UX] is quite universal understood, I want you to think (and decide) about a short tag for Visual Identity / Branding Design. Marc mentioned the necessity for newcomers to understand the tag, but I think most of us agree to keeping as much room for a descriptive subject. Possible tags would be: [VI] for Visual Identity [BD] for Branding Design [VD] for Visual Design [ViDes] for Visual Design None of them are self-descriptive, but we should provide a wiki page for new members where such abbreviations have to be explained (together with more general information about our team). What do you like most? (I for one prefer [VD]) Could you just add +1 to the tag of your preference? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Marc, * Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard Le 2011-05-21 10:26, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : We could perhaps give guidelines as to white space suggested around the scatter so that we are all using it with a certain amount of consistency. The guidelines Nik provided on the Motif page (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) already cover the intended use quite well IMHO. The motif should be used not only as a whole, but in parts and cut-off, so whitespace rules don't make really sense. But we should look at it's consistency - and when someone finds out about a usage that might not follow our general branding language, please tell us, so we can try to define better rules. Best regards Bernhard Thanks for the note. I had not looked closely enough on that particular page. It would be helpful if that particular section showed up on the index at the top of the wiki page. Perhaps a sub-title that would show under section 1.1 This would help members who are looking for guidance on the motif's usage. I added the title. Feel free to add some more explanations, if you think they could help. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Question about stages of Design changes to Implementation
Hi Phil, all You raise very important questions - but at the present state of our team and the entire community I can't provide you more than just a few thoughts... Phil Jackson schrieb: I'm interested in learning about the process for taking suggestions for changes to the Interface that have been worked out in collaboration via email and Whiteboards, to the stage where programmers are either assigned or decide to carry out the changes. In a volunteer community programmers can't be assigned - they decide about the area they want to work on, and nobody can force them to do anything else. When we will have reached a status where developers might be payed for programming following the needs and requests of the community, this might differ. But the most important and successful way to have a feature or a bug to be worked on (if you don't have the skill to code it on your own) is to convince others (in this case: developers) about the importance of your problem or feature. I understand the need for a formalised approach with checks and balances and appropriate authorisation. We don't have this approach by now. There are structures to be defined like UX-Tags in bugzilla or an Easy-hacks page for UX / UI code development. UX needs to be present in any UI related code development (but not necessarily involved with personal assistance for minor changes). We need to define goals and a consistent way how to reach them by visual means. And we need developers interested in implementing our recommendations. Is there an overview or paper on this somewhere that someone can direct me to? Not yet. If you or anybody else could draw a first outline or draft, we had a basis to discuss here on the list and later on with the developers. I would like to understand this in order to know what roles I can provide assistance for. There will be people who liase between programmers and designers and I might be able to help in this area having experience of both design and programming. Having people with insight on both sides of the curtain will help very much. Programmer's language is quite different from designer language, but from time to time we're able to understand each other. But the most important area is trust - if both sides trust each other that they take into account the other one's needs, ideas and proposals, this will lead to the most effective way of working together towards an even better and stable product. So if you could help us by reading the developer's list, comment there on UX/UI related topics and integrate in this area, your work will be highly appreciated. Best regards Bernhard PS: Please bear in mind, that the developer list is quite a technical list. Discussing new features might be necessary, but in a positive and integrative way. If the new feature is a positive development from what had been used before, the new feature can be modified later on in the time until the final release... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] UX collaboration
Hi Gustavo, all, welcome to our team! Gustavo Gawryszewski schrieb: Hello, My name is Gustavo Gawryszewski, I'm the founder of Tactio Interaction Design, which is a brazilian interaction design and usability consultancy and local leader of the IxDA Rio de Janeiro chapter. With such a background I'm quite sure you will feel quite comfortable here in our group. We are professionals and amateurs in design and user experience working together in the related areas of branding / visual design and UX / UI design. Even if our wiki is not in a final state, most of our work is presented there - and discussed here on this mailing list. We were planning to help with the project, That's great! Help is what we need most :-) I thought that It could be useful to run some usability tests so you guys have more data available to work on. This would be very useful indeed. Such data will give our comments and opinion on coding efforts with UI implication more importance and might lead to a situation where developers start to ask us how our different target groups will react to changes they develop. At the moment I don't have a feature in mind where we might need usability testing instantly. But if you stay with us for some time here on the list, you will find out about topics where your expertise and usability testing might be helpful. If we don't see these points (or don't think about asking you), please step in and post your opinion! I could work on the interaction design too, but as we know that is a very large and complex project and we don't have that many resources available to help. Even if such contributions would be helpful too, I think it is much more important to contribute with presence and expertise inside our team - if you are interested in being a part of it. We all are volunteers, spending more or less of our spare time to further LibreOffice and improve it by committing our dedication and expertise to the community. I would like to know from you guys what it would be more relevant If we can ask for support with usability tests from time to time, this would be great. I CC'd Christoph, our main UX expert (on parental leave at the moment), to inform him about your offer. Best regards and welcome again! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Interest in UX
Hi Mahmadul, (CC'ing you because I had to moderate your mail to the list) mahmudul islam tapu schrieb: i want to join design team.i am interested to: User experience User support and training While User support and training is not the direct focus of our team (you might join the marketing mailing list as well as the general discussion list), we work on User Experience for LibreOffice here on this list and in our wiki area: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design There you find information about subscribing to this mailing list as well as our recent works in UX and Branding Design. If you have any questions, just post here to the mailing list - and if you want to join any activity or start a new topic you want to work on: Don't hesitate to send us a mail... Best regards and Welcome! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Tobias, all I'm sorry to be way back with my mails (still about 150 to be read). Thanks for your proposals! I'll comment on them during the next days. Best regards Bernhard Tobias Bernard schrieb: here's my proposal for a conference logo. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libreoffice_conference_logo_paris_11.svg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Conference_paris_11_PNG.png http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_conference_logo.png what do you think? greetings, tobias bernard Am Montag, den 09.05.2011, 18:34 +0200 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Hello Design Team, As you know we will have our first LibreOffice conference in October 2011 in Paris. Do you think it would be possible to design a logo for the event? We may have either one specific logo, or a generic logo for all the future LibreOffice conference with only the name of the location changing or slightly amended graphically. I'm not designer myself, so feel free to jump in. Best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Membre du Comité exécutif The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding [UX] and [VI] tags to mail subjects?
Hi Jaron, * Jaron Kuppers schrieb: Hi everyone, Great idea! I prefer to use shorter tags such as [UX] and [VI] as opposed to full words. Otherwise the subject of the email may get cut off, especially since all our emails are automatically tagged with the list at the beginning ex: [libreoffice-design][UX]. +1 As for the specific tags I would prefer [UX] and [BD] (Branding Design) and of course no tag would be general purpose (such as announcements). Later we might add 1 or 2 more but I think it should be kept very simple, otherwise new members might get confused about which tags to use. +1 (I didn't want to propose [BD] because of my name ;-) ) Honestly: I don't know if Visual Design or Branding Design covers our goals better and are better known in public or among designers. So I'm open to any of these tags. Best regards Bernhard Cheers, Jaron On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi all, would you like to add special tags to the subjects of your mails to show even more clearly, if the topic related to User Experience [UX] or Visual Identity / Branding Design [VI]? This might make it easier to browse the list for topics you are interested in. Do you think this makes sense? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi M. King Duck schrieb: Bernhard, I have the name that I do because that was what I used when I first signed up for GMail. I don't mind your eMail address at all, I just prefer to have serious discussions with people I can talk to by name. I'm not too comfortable giving out my real name on the Internet. Sorry for not being clear - I just wanted to have a first name I can talk to, I don't need your full name, if you don't want it to share with all the world... Please do not think that I want you to think of me as a king; the name I really wanted was already taken so I just reversed the two. I didn't take your name this way ;-) As for the Scatter motif triangles, it sounds like a good idea. Do you have an image showing exactly what you mean by this? Not yet - perhaps in a few days... I imagine an area with a small area of the Scatter motif as consistent part of the logo, while an other area should contain a graphic dedicated to the single conference. If the Scatter part could be understood as representing the community consisting of a multitude of people and skills, this would be great. I'm new to working on open source projects and I wanted to contribute to help LibreOffice become the best application that it can be. Please ask for help, descriptions or any other support if you don't understand the way we work here. The main topic is that nobody can be forced to do anything - therefore it is important to describe what each of us wants to achieve and how we can reach there. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [UX] - Big Picture [was: LibreOffice Toolbar Usability Interface ...]
Hi Jared, all, one of the mails still marked as to-be-replied-to, but never found the time - sorry! Jared Meidal schrieb: Because I like the “big picture” I would like to make some comments to help me, and perhaps others, formulate the trajectory and philosophy for the UX future of LibreOffice. [...] As an open source application, The Document Foundation has the great opportunity before them to show the wise maturity borne in the FLOSS community of how to present accessibility to the user--customized control. [...] To offer innovation within the GUI (emphasis on USER) would be a benefit not simply because everyone else is doing it, but because it fits exactly in-line with the philosophy of free software, if done right. [...] LibreOffice will be successful not because of innovation (dictation) but because of freedom (customization) and user-focused design (as a reminder, users are very diverse). My practical suggestion, is to take the best of tabs, ribbons and docks. Take the finest customization techniques built into LibreOffice and already available in the FLOSS-sphere and pack them into an upgrade of this suite that will offer users what they want, what they need, and what works for them--all at the same time. What this would look like is ever-present, full customization of tool properties: grouping, position, appearance and visibility. My term for this is “toolgroups.” This reaches beyond the function of static tools grouped within a ribbon tab. Rather, this is a user-customized group of tools tagged to appear always, or workspace dependent. The group can be placed in a sidebar, floating dock or in an inactive tabset (invisible or simply unusable). [...] I tried to shorten your mail without losing it's main content - I hope I kept the most important information. During the last months we had a few discussions with developers on customization and options. While it is reasonable from a user point of view to be given a broad area of modifiable options, this might mean a enormous programming effort for developers, a larger code base, slower execution and more bugs. Even from UX point of view it might not be as easy as you describe: An average user will not change the UI - either he likes it and can work with it or he can't (and stops using the product). That's why the standard configuration is more important in my eyes than any possible customization. You're right that there are different user groups with different needs that might be addressed with a specialized UI. But I think providing pre-formatted themes are a better way to go. And even here the workload for the developers is quite high... My take is: What we need is an easy way to create extensions for UI customization. This way the standard theme can be overridden by an extension with a different theme or with an additional customization tool. Toolbar content, size and positioning, docking and context sensitivity (probably the most problematic part) can be defined there. But we should keep in mind: One of the main advantages of LibreOffice is it's platform independency. On each of the operating systems People can work with LibreOffice in the same way - mainly because the position of their toolbars, menu entries and buttons are similar among Windows, Linux and Mac OS X. We definitely should keep this behavior for the standard theme. Defining this theme will be one of the most important tasks for us during the years to come, and we will have to hear on our user base very closely... Allowing this configuration will probably cause some developer effort and I don't know if there is already one willing to spend his/her spare time to this task. But your statement is true: A more user-oriented UI can be used as marketing tool and promotional item - and it fits very well with the idea of Freedom and Liberty. Toolbars are already quite configurable - even if most people don't use this feature. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Jean, * Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: Thanks, Bernhard, for moving this request to the proper list. What is the Motif you mention? I am not familiar with this term. It's a graphical element we want to be used in LibreOffice branding: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Gallery_Motif It can be used in parts or as a whole and fits quite well with other design ideas - keeping the general language of our branding. There are already some use cases on our Existing designs page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs#Distribution Even if we need to define better what should be an official design (and I'd like to see the LibO documentation be part of this), you might get an impression what is possible with the motif. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [UX] Bug 37245 - Make 2nd column selection more intuitive for unchecked Evenly distribute text
Hi Rainer, Rainer Bielefeld schrieb: Hi, this is a very particular Design question, but may be you can help? In https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37245 it's really unintuitive that there is no way to get into second column. May be there are altrenatives? I added a comment to the bug. Perhaps it could be more intuitive, if the second column had a grey background to show that it's inactive until you access it by floating over the height of the first column or adding a manual break. Adding a manual column break automatically when you click in the right column seems to me even more unintuitive than the present behavior (remove the break when clicking out of the column without writing?). But if someone is interested, please go ahead - I can't at the moment... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Gallery of Visual Elements [was: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Are there icons...]
Hi Marc, Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard Le 2011-05-11 17:56, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Thanks for pointing here, as we haven't been able to finish the work on our galleries containing graphical resources for internal and external visual representation of LibreOffice: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements I wasn't aware of this page. Could we then link the items on the Marketing/Material page[1] to this new page and then delete the page? It doesn't really serve any purpose and the organisation is more useful on the Visual_Elements page. You could also add two categories to make it a one-stop shop for members: videos; presentations. We can extend the galleries of course. I just added a new line for presentations, videos and flyers. If you want to modify the structure, just tell us here on the list and go ahead - if there are different opinions, we can revert your change at any time... It's nice to pull all of these elements on one page. We would have to agree on the visuals as official resources here on the list. But I think for the moment adding a strong line like: The artwork and design presented here has not yet been approved as official LibreOffice resources. This may take a bit of time, but can become faster if you ask for approval for the artwork you want to use at our [[Design#Communication|design mailing list]]. should be sufficient. Let me know if you need help to do this. I could do it for you. This would be great! Klaus-Jürgen already started to create the first sub-pages. I modified their titles and descriptions a bit in order to allow people to see the visuals without scrolling and to understand that this is a structured gallery. For the gallery entries I don't think that we need to duplicate all the content of the file page we link to. Just adding a description / name should be enough as this gallery entries don't allow to download the graphics directly. If anybody of you can spend some time on this topic, it would be highly appreciated. And when we start to use these pages as official resources, we should add the categories Marketing, Design and Gallery (at least) to them. I already did this for the main gallery page and logo, icons, product graphics and motif. Best regards Bernhard Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Material -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Cover designs for printed copies of LibreOffice user guides
Hi Jean, all moving this message to the design list where I think it belongs. Please follow up there! just one short point from my side: I'd propose to use the Motif on the book covers. Best regards Bernhard Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: When I published the printed version of Getting Started with LibreOffice in great haste last year, I put together a cover design based on the TDF logo.[1] That same design was used for the more recently-published printed version of the Writer Guide. Today someone wrote to the Documentation list to say how awful the cover looks, particularly because of the black border. I agree. I'm not a graphic designer, and I didn't have the time to consult anyone else... but the time has now come to do so. One idea I've had (and others expressed a similar idea) was to use the colour of the component's icon for the cover border colour. I think that would be an improvement, but a more attractive overall design would be an even greater improvement. Other ideas are being expressed on the Docs list. So I turn to the Marketing team, and in particular the Art Team, for guidance and, I hope, a book cover design. I know that this will take some time, so the next book (Calc Guide) will use the original design, but with perhaps a different colour than black for the border. Thanks in advance for your help. --Jean LibreOffice Documentation Team [1] http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/getting-started-with-libreoffice-33/14703788 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi ... (I'd prefer to talk to real people using their real name - and I definitely won't call you King or Duck) King Duck schrieb: Is there a way to take a look at logos from previous conferences? We didn't have any previous LibreOffice conference, so we can start more or less right from the beginning. What we did in OpenOffice.org, can be found here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOo_Conference_Logos I do not speak French, but I might be able to help in designing the new logo. This would be great! What do you think about the points I mentioned below (as you didn't cut off the rest of the mail, I can refer there too)? Perhaps we could use a group of three or four of the Scatter motif triangles (as outlines?) for the consistent logo part? Just an idea... Best regards Bernhard On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: Hi Charles, all, thanks for the request - anybody has some spare time and ideas to work on this topic? Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Hello Design Team, As you know we will have our first LibreOffice conference in October 2011 in Paris. Do you think it would be possible to design a logo for the event? [...] While Charles told me, that he personally don't like the skyline graphics we had on some of the OOoCon logos, I think it would be good for our branding, if we had a generic logo dedicated to all LibreOffice conferences with some modifiable parts: The main visual should stay the LibreOffice logo (with TDF subline as official community event). As Charles already mentioned, the name of the location is necessary. I'd like to see the number in the line of LibreOffice conferences too, but this might mean that we have to localize the logo (1st / 1ere / 1ste)... Additionally I think of a constant visual element for all conferences as well as an area for a dedicated graphic for the specific event. I don't know if I'll have the time to work on this topic during the next days (I'll have to attend a congress at Hamburg until Tuesday), so I would be glad if you don't hesitate to comment, draft and design... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Are there icons and banners to use on the documentation blog?
Hi John, all I can't work on the topic at the moment - anybody else? Perhaps some brainstorming about the questions I already posted... John Shabanowitz schrieb: On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: [...] We need to avoid some misinterpretations: 1) The icon does not open LibreOffice locally on the iPad. 2) The icon does not link to the official LibreOffice homepage. 3) The icon does not link to the main LibreOffice blog. So the icon needs to identify the link target as - web based - being a blog - dedicated to the documentation team. Adding some graphics inside the document symbol could interfere with the branding guidelines (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding), because the application icons is just a refined symbol from the logo. [...] It would appear that the icons would be available only from the documentation blog. That should let the user know the icons link to the documentation blog only. There will be different blogs (marketing for example), so we need some special blog icons for the different blogs. The requirements are for two images, one a cover image and one that as described, sounds like a splash screen. I quote from the wordpress.com iPad OnSwype section of the settings for the documentation blog, * Cover Logo -For best results use a 200×200px transparent PNG This would be quite large - perhaps we can include all the information I mentioned... Launch Screen Image Readers can add your site to their iPad’s home screen for quick access from an app-like icon. The launch screen image is briefly displayed after your site is opened from an iPad home screen icon, before the cover image appears. And this I can't understand at all. Does anybody with an iPad can describe what happens? - There is an icon on the iPad, called home screen icon? - What does it show? How does it open a website? - Can it be linked to any image, changing it's visual appearance? - The large icon (preview? Splash screen?) is shown just for a few seconds, and then the cover image appears. - Is the cover image the same as the cover logo? - Why doesn't is sits on the desktop all the time? Use a PNG exactly 768×1004px * There is an option to use a cover image or not. (This would display a recent post from the blog) So the cover image is a recent blog posting? Does the cover image contain the cover logo? Sorry, I can't imagine. Is there any iPad image around with such an image? What do you think? Is this do-able? If we understand how they are used, it should be possible - but not by me at the moment. I have to prioritize the work stacked before me... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] designing a logo for the LibreOffice conference
Hi Charles, all, thanks for the request - anybody has some spare time and ideas to work on this topic? Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: Hello Design Team, As you know we will have our first LibreOffice conference in October 2011 in Paris. Do you think it would be possible to design a logo for the event? We may have either one specific logo, or a generic logo for all the future LibreOffice conference with only the name of the location changing or slightly amended graphically. While Charles told me, that he personally don't like the skyline graphics we had on some of the OOoCon logos, I think it would be good for our branding, if we had a generic logo dedicated to all LibreOffice conferences with some modifiable parts: The main visual should stay the LibreOffice logo (with TDF subline as official community event). As Charles already mentioned, the name of the location is necessary. I'd like to see the number in the line of LibreOffice conferences too, but this might mean that we have to localize the logo (1st / 1ere / 1ste)... Additionally I think of a constant visual element for all conferences as well as an area for a dedicated graphic for the specific event. I don't know if I'll have the time to work on this topic during the next days (I'll have to attend a congress at Hamburg until Tuesday), so I would be glad if you don't hesitate to comment, draft and design... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Are there icons and banners to use on the documentation blog?
Hi John, all, John Shabanowitz schrieb: On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 5:46 AM, David Nelsoncomme...@traduction.bizwrote: Hi, :-) On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 05:56, Jean Hollis Weberjeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 22:01 -0400, John Shabanowitz wrote: I was going through the settings on Wordpress.com and saw the settings to upload graphics to use as IPad app icons. Wordpress will use those icons for IPad users to display the blog webpage. Wordpress will allow an iPad user to have a link to the site on their desktop like an app. LibreOffice does not work on iOS yet, but it does work on OSX. I can resize any graphics that have been approved, to fit the requirements of wordpress. Are there graphics we can use? Apart from the Marketing/Branding page you mentioned, it would be a good idea to post to the Design team's list, where - as Jean said - Bernard and co can suggest and validate graphics, colors and other aspects. HTH. Thanks for pointing here, as we haven't been able to finish the work on our galleries containing graphical resources for internal and external visual representation of LibreOffice: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements [...] We're working on the libodocs.wordpress.com blog for the documentation team. We're looking for graphics to use on the blog for iPad users. Can you help? If I understand you right, you need an icon to be used on iPad desktops as direct link to the documentation blog http://libodocs.wordpress.com/ Do you want to use a similar icon on the blog itself? While on the blog it would be no problem to use the main application icon (like this one: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-list-icon.png), for iPads the question is a bit different: We need to avoid some misinterpretations: 1) The icon does not open LibreOffice locally on the iPad. 2) The icon does not link to the official LibreOffice homepage. 3) The icon does not link to the main LibreOffice blog. So the icon needs to identify the link target as - web based - being a blog - dedicated to the documentation team. Adding some graphics inside the document symbol could interfere with the branding guidelines (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding), because the application icons is just a refined symbol from the logo. For such a dedicated design it would be important to know the size of other icons on iPad, so we can include the possibility for more or less details our ideas and drafts. Does anybody know about the size for standard iPad application icons? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] A LibreOffice logo for use on an external web site
Hi Drew, drew schrieb: Hi, The folks at the OO.o user community forum will be adding a sub-page for LibreOffice under the Setup and Troubleshooting section. Currently that section is split along OS lines only - you can see that here: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 So an icon, 32x32 px, for LibreOfficce - any reason not to use the standard contemporary document icon? I'd rather use the main LibreOffice application icon, as this has been pixel-adjusted for 32x32 px. I assume you have it already extracted from the source [1]. If not I'll use this png file as such: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo-list-icon.png But the differences are not too large, so you might use this one too. I know that I don't need to tell you, but can you have an eye on the whitespace around the icon when it is integrated in this menu? Perhaps it would be necessary to use a smaller symbol in order to follow the guidelines. And I don't know about the licenses on the OOo wiki, if there is a way to attach the license(s) to the icon if the wiki doesn't use one of our licenses. But in general I don't see any reason not to use the document symbol / main application icon for reference to LibreOffice. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Venezuela logo - a proposal
Hi Helio, all, at the moment with poor Internet connection - so I can't reply as verbose as I use to ;-) Helio S. Ferreira schrieb: Hi Daniel, all. I'm proposing an alternative to the Community Venezuela logo. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1582639/logo_libre_venezuela_01.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1582639/logo_libre_venezuela_02.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1582639/logo_libre_venezuela_03.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1582639/logo_libre_venezuela_04.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1582639/logo_libre_venezuela_05.png I like the idea of integrating the LibreOffice logo in a larger community logo for different official teams. What I think is still lacking: A reply by the SC on Daniel's request on the SC-discuss list: http://go.mail-archive.com/qIpxGmTkV1eCZS-dfUWGwCnBUD0= If he would ask for a local marketing logo, I would not object at all. But starting a local group including activities that have always been covered by *language* and are not necessarily bound to national borders is quite the opposite to what the OOo community tried to achieve. There are very important political issues we avoided in the past by concentrating on languages. Macedonia and China are just two points to mention. If the community doesn't decide differently, I would strongly suggest not to integrate country flags in any official LibreOffice logo. If you could explain me and the SC why it is so important not to use a logo for an officially supported language team like the ES LibreOffice team, I could change my mind of course... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design Team Kick-Off Step 4: What We Need - Review, Please (With Links)
Hi Jay, all, Jay Lozier (planas) schrieb: [...] What I was thinking about is what are the mandatory branding elements for LO worldwide and how would a localization team (Spanish, French, etc) get approval for their design. I think you are totally right: We have to provide international branding elements that can/should be used by everybody in their design - irrespective of the language or the different teams. These elements are: - logo - icons - motif - color theme - general visual language (containing light, reflexion, shading etc) For different teams we should provide a consistent design describing the team - in a way that all the official teams look similar: Therefore a team logo is necessary. In addition to that we need some kind of design container, where each team can include their own design elements or identification artwork allowing the general impression to stay consistent. Can you or somebody else add these points to the WWN wiki page [1]? (I'm still short in time and have to work on my Internet access...) For example if we had worldwide brand template that had the required elements already included, the localization teams could concentrate on local needs and issues. Yes - such templates need to be created, approved and presented in the wiki. The approval process could be informal or formal as we decide, I prefer a semi-formal process. Designs would be posted for comments from interested parties and revised if necessary. If the teams use pre-existent templates in the way they are intended to be used, I don't think that any approval will be necessary. But it would be great to have them listed on the wiki (probably on the Existing_Designs page [2]). For new introduced graphical elements a more formal process should be followed: Presenting the work here on the list, approval on the elements and perhaps implementing them in the official design repository would be the way to go. Other work just including official branding elements in a larger design depend on the way they are presented to the public: While using a logo or the LibO icons in a marketing folder is not necessary to be posted here, I'd like to see a link to new graphical artwork like DVD labels, web buttons or posters that should represent LibreOffice in an official way (link to our website, community DVD, representing the community on a fair). If there is no official artwork in this category of our gallery [3], we should use this new artwork as basic for an official resource (or use it as it is). If the category already contains an other design already approved as official, the new design should improve the existing one, so it can replace it after approval. I think it is important to be presented in public by consistent graphical material. Adding an alternative design to the official branding can be positive for the community's recognition in public if we restrict the alternative artwork to two or three design themes - different enough to be used in different situations. But if visual design becomes arbitrary, our branding will lose power and strength. After the redesign is approved by consensus of the interested parties it is released. As mentioned above - such consensus should be only needed for new official material. For example, my Spanish is miserable and my French is slightly better, so I would not comment on purely local items for those teams. I don't think so: As design is basically a visual area, language dependency is less important. Slogans, text lines and similar elements are necessarily bound to the language teams. But the general visual impression is design - quite independent to the language. Best regards Bernhard [1]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed [2]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs [3]: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements (very early stage) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposition to combine the Apply/Reset buttons
Hi Christoph, all I just want to add an idea - not even thought to the end, but perhaps some valuable input to reduce the numbers of buttons... It's not too different to Heinzs/Astron's proposal when he started the thread, but avoids name changes on the buttons.: [Help] needs quite a lot of work, but I think it i reasonable to place it at the left border in every dialog. If you click on it, you will get a help window, while the dialog stays open. But this is no button to discuss about (except the position). What I would like to be discussed is an easy to be used multi-function [Apply] button: It should get a two-state behavior: Depending on a pre-defined option it's standard state is pressed (leading to changes preview on the fly) or released (changes are only visible when the button is pressed during your work). Clicking on the pressed button leads to reversion of the just added changes (can be indicated by mouse-over) in the document - and with a double-click, all changes are reverted in the dialog too. This is clearly indicated by changing the button's style from pressed to released. Clicking on the released button applies the changes to the document, but keeps the dialog open. This is the present behavior of the [Apply] button. Double-click on the released button applies the changes to the document and closes the dialog. This would replace an additional [OK] button. The only other button to add would be a [Close] button to exit the dialog. This is a minimalistic approach, but should work for the scenarios I can imagine: 1. [Apply] button pressed as standard: Every change is visible immediately (or after a short time as Christoph suggests) in the document. a. The user wants to keep the changes and leave the dialog: - Just press [Close] b. The user wants to revert the changes and leave the dialog: - press [Apply] to switch to the released style, so no change is applied to the document, and press [Close]. You should reach the same result with [Esc] on the keyboard or [x] in the dialog's upper corner by just one click. c. The user wants to revert the changes, but keep the dialog: - double-click on [Apply]: The style is changes to released, and all entries in the dialog have been reverted. 2. [Apply] is released as standard behavior: Changes are only visible when applied to the document manually: a. The user wants to apply the changes and leave the dialog: - Double-click on [Apply]. b. The user wants not to apply the changes and leave the dialog: - press [Close] (or [Esc] or [x]) c. The user wants to apply the changes with open dialog: - press [Apply]. d. The user wants revert the changes while the dialog stays open: - this is tricky here, because it would mean to introduce a [Revert] button. In my eyes it should not be too hard for the user to close the dialog and re-open it again. Sorry - I'm too tired to think on (additional buttons to avoid double clicks), but I want to send this nevertheless... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Hi Drew, all, drew schrieb: On Sun, 2011-04-24 at 23:16 +0200, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Drew, hi Astron! [...] Hillar was so kind and adapted some characters - he provided it here: http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00468.html Could you please install it and provide feedback whether it behaves better? I've never designed Spanish material, so I simply lack the answer. Alright well my feedback is that this isn't going so well. I installed the file referenced in the email, under Linux 64bt (Ubuntu) GNOME (a few times - with and without the old vegur files on the system) Results [GIMP and InkScape] - only light font is available. Regular, Medium and Bold actually use the Light font. Space character is so small that the break between words is for all intent an purpose none-existent. The OTF link (http://ubuntuone.com/p/Zmf/) is called Medium, but the properties describe them as Light. I thought I installed four different files, but I can't find them again. Nevertheless you're right: The blank width has been reduced (probably on error), so it can't be used at the moment. - the height metric changed a bit, the updated font is slightly taller then it was from the Oct 2010 files Didn't compare. Results [LibreOffice (3.3.2)] - Vegur again only displays light - New twist, bold a word with special characters (some - the ones used for Spanish) now they display as blank spaces. [see screenshot] http://lo-portal.us/temp/vegur-libo.png It seems that the font doesn't only contain the Light version - otherwise the bold characters would be calculated from the light ones without losing them in Bold. But for the moment this font is not able to be used in languages with unsupported characters. So we are in a similar situation as last year in the OOo branding team. Over there we searched thoroughly and decided to use M+ P1 as accompanying font for the OOo logo. I'd suggest to do the same here until the work on the Vegur font reaches a more or less final status: http://mplus-fonts.sourceforge.jp/mplus-outline-fonts/design/index-en.html#prop Direct download: http://downloads.sourceforge.jp/mplus-fonts/6650/mplus-TESTFLIGHT-038.tar.gz I don't know at the moment if this archive works on Windows too, but I can't spend the time to look at it in dept at the moment. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Little problem with the Vegur font
Hi Marc, * Marc Paré schrieb: Hi Bernhard [...] So, should we then advise the different language marketing groups to make use of the Mplus fonts for their design and content until the Vegur font work is completed? Why should we just not adopt and improve on the Mplus font set instead of Vegur? Is there a technical reason why we are so set on Vegur? No - not technical. It's just visual / consistency. Our logo is based on Vegur (and one of the reasons to do so are the round dots on the i looking much more friendly and inviting than square dots). An accompanying font should work well with the logo font - and I'd like to avoid a mixture of rounded and square dots, if there are no other issues with the fonts. Try to recreate the LibO logo with the M+ font and you will get a different feeling about what the logo means. When we'll think about a new iteration of the logo, we'll have to include thoughts about the logo font too... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi marc, just a short reply ... Marc Paré wrote: Hi Bernhard and especially Drew [...] Le 2011-04-22 18:12, Bernhard Dippold a écrit : Hi Drew, Finally, the ODF logo screamed so I borrowed from here and there, did a little aggregating and a little touch with the airbrush tool and well..see for yourself. Without you mentioning it, I would have not realized. You created a new ODF logo? And where did you get the SVG logo? [...] We should try as much as possible to fit in a proper ODF and SVG logo. I noticed on the SVG site that they make use of different logos. We could leave a note with the W3C-SVG people to see if they have a logo (with descriptor) available on their site (http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/) (Note that there is one at the top of that page.). I only see the W3C logo there... The SVG logo (orange flower) used by drew on previous versions seems not to be used very much, as Google images don't show more than just the source page... Not really sure where to get ODF logo versions. Where did you get your ODF version? I couldn't find any ODF site with an ODF logo. The bird is (part of) the ODF community logo. I don't have a link at hand, but you'll find it easily via Google (or any other search engine ;-) ) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [en] NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Drew, Drew Jensen wrote: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lrge-cover-alt-3.png I won't comment anything more - even if I told you that it would not be necessary from my point of view, you implemented my thoughts in a breathtaking time... ;-) But I don't see any reasons to nit-pick again: Leave the cover as it is, it looks really good and professional! Thanks a lot! Best regards Bernhard PS: When you finished the label, we should ask the other LibreOffice-Box teams, if they would feel comfortable with a similar design - so we can define an official community DVD design... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: NA-Comm-DVD Label
Hi Drew, Marc, Marc wrote: Le 2011-04-23 04:44, Marc Paré a écrit : [...] I have found the logo site for SVG here: http://www.w3.org/2009/08/svg-logos.html I don't know if you already checked, but this page contains a FAQ where point 8 reads: Q: 8. May I use the SVG logo on product packaging or advertisements? A: Yes, if your product renders or outputs SVG natively, without the use of plug-ins, you are encouraged to promote your product using the SVG logo. Please note that in order to do so, however, you must obtain explicit permission from W3C, which shall be granted without prejudice or fee. Did you get explicit permission from W3C? Does this include reproducing the logo for other DVDs too? The W3C Document license requires attribtution and linking to their wabsite. Will this be done on the inside of the cover? I think this license is too restrictive (this might be the reason why the logos are not very present in public). Should we approach W3C with the question of including a phrase in their license that allows the use of their logo (without W3C part) just as a reference for the file format? I think without the need to add an attribution and a link (even if the graphic is not used on a website) public acceptance of the logo could be increased... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] Community opinion on Libreoffice Venezuela logo
Hi Daniel, all, Daniel Gonzalez wrote: On 04/22/2011 07:44 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Daniel, all, Daniel Gonzalez schrieb: [...] Hi Guys Recently completed a logo for the Community of LibreOffice in Venezuela and I like to read your comments before passing it to production. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22620135/Logotipo%20Comunidad%20LIbO%20Venezuela.jpg I'm sorry to say, that this logo doesn't fit with my idea of a consistent visual design for LibreOffice. [...] Three new version http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22620135/Logotipo%20Comunidad%20LIbO%20Venezuela_v2.png I'll raise the topic of country based LibreOffice teams to the steering-discuss list, as I'm still not convinced that this is the right approach except for marketing. As you may know there is a lot of work to be done (membership application process, foundation and bylaws, the Oracle announcement about the future of OOo...), so it might take a bit, until they react. Once the community's position on teams is clear, we at the Design team will create a logo template for all the teams - and your input will be very valueable. Sorry, that I can't just approve one of your proposals, but even in No.3 the distance between the logo and the two addings (Communidad and Venezuela) is too small for using the logo just based on the branding guidelines. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] Git Artwork guide
Hi Björn, Christoph, all Bjoern Michaelsen schrieb: Hi designers, Hi developers, following the discussion on: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/756895 I created a short tutorial for designers on how to get setup to contribute artwork directly to the project at without a complete build: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/GitArtworkGuide I read it and can't wait to try it. Unfortunately this will take some time, because my days (and nights) are much too short... But I want to thank you very much for this possibility! @Designers: Feel free to move it, beautify it and most of all: link to it. Thanks to Christoph for his integrative work here. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons
Hi Paulo, all, Paulo José Amaro schrieb: Hi, Sorry for replying too late. It's never too late ;-) I'm without internet access in home again, but at university, in the weekends, Im can use a little. :-) You have to go to university at the weekend? Shorting the discussion, we need higher versions to Tango and Galaxy mimetype icons, right? Ok, I think I can help on it. I'll look in the Bugzilla and see what I can to do. This would be great! Oxygen is described as non-existent, so this would be another task to work on. If you find a way to specify the differences between Tango, Galaxy and Oxygen, perhaps someone else could pick one of the themes and adapt shading, light sources and reflexion. I'm not quite sure if we need to follow the color styles of the different themes, because this would mean to reduce our consistency on different platforms and with different themes. There is no common color palette for Tango, Galaxy and Oxygen, so we don't have any chance to comply with all of them, if we want to stay consistent. A question not very related to, anyway (sorry if it was already replied): Why can't we use SVG files to icons, otherwise bitmap converted ones? I know Ubuntu support SVG icons and they don't lost quality on resizing. Would it because other operational systems? We can, but we can't use them inside LibreOffice. At least this is what I read from the Google Summer of Code proposal here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Gsoc/Ideas#Use_svg_for_LibreOffice_icons Another point I mentioned already in the bug report: I don't know an easy way to extract single SVG files for each icon from the central document. I don't want to copy and paste them manually every time when they have been updated... Best regards Bernhard [...] 2011/4/7 Bernhard Dippoldbernh...@familie-dippold.at Hi Christoph, all, Christoph Noack wrote: [...] Here is a link: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Scatter brained?
drew schrieb: On Sun, 2011-04-17 at 00:26 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Would it be reasonable to upload the source and/or a high res bitmap of the card to the wiki Yes and link it to the existing design page? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Existing_Designs added to the page, as example, just now Thanks a lot! If Nik can provide the high res, we should integrate the link too... Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Located in Venezuela logo
Hi Daniel, all, sorry for stepping in so late - sometimes real life is more important than LibreOffice... I crossposted this mail to the marketing list, because I think this is a topic with some importance over there. Please follow up on market...@libreoffice.org. Daniel Gonzalez wrote: On 04/10/2011 03:45 PM, Helio S. Ferreira wrote: Hi Daniel, wat do you need? Maybe can help you. Thanks Helio for replying and showing our interest! On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Gonzalez gonzale...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Guys, I wanted to know how I can help with a logo located to the user group LibreOffice in Venezuela, [...] Thanks for answering, I need a logo approved by the members of the design team for the community LibreOffice LibreOffice in Venezuela, so I like that this was located in my country. This topic is related to team interaction and marketing, even if it looks pretty simple at the first sight. While crossposting to marketing I'll inform projects@LibO as another relevant mailing list about our thread. Traditionally our community is organized on language rather than on countries. Therefore the Spanish language team is designed to work together on language related issues, user support, documentation and so on, because most resources can be shared. The only area, where this language based approach is limited, is Marketing: Here local activities are important: Physical presence on fairs and conferences, personal contact to journalists, business people and administration decision makers can't be reached by community members from other parts of the world. Back to dedicated logos for different teams: It is very reasonable to design a common logo theme consisting of the LibreOffice logo in combination with a graphical (or textual) representation of the dedicated team. But as mentioned above, I don't know if the team you want to create a logo for shares most of it's interests with the other Spanish teams - in this case I'd like to see you share a common logo strengthening the language based character of the LibreOffice community. If you need a logo to represent the local marketing activities in Venezuela, I'm fine with it. Do you know about marketing activities in other areas of Spanish speaking Middle- and South America? Can yo collaborate and use your material interactively? Should we think of a Central American LibreOffice Marketing Logo? When I speak of localized concerns me putting the flag of Venezuela or any particular icon of my country, can be an icon of a typical meal or some typical musical instrument of Venezuela, clear that these ideas should be approved by team members. I hope I understood your points and described well enough, why it is not just creating a Venezuela logo, but one of the central topics of the international and interlingual approach of LibreOffice. If you are uncertain about one of my thoughts, please ask for explanation. If you disagree, just tell me. And if you can reply to some of my questions above, it would be great to get some replies. My single concern is that our power could become split in small and micro teams when we don't combine our efforts wherever possible. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [us-marketing] North American Community DVD - cover art updated
Hi Drew, all, drew schrieb: [...] ps - will add the design list here also to get even more input. Sorry - I've been away for the weekend, so I couldn't comment earlier. But what I see on the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lrge-cover-alt-3.png looks really good I think. (especially if you revert the suite slogan ;-) ) On the first sight the white space area around the logo on the back looks quite small at the top, but this doesn't mean to ask for another iteration of the cover. We don't have official logos with version designation, so I'm fine with your work on this. You already spent enough time on this design - so from my side: Just go on! Best regards Bernhard PS: The icon shadows on the back are different from Paulo's new Tango theme - but this has only been worked on in small scales. Once we define the Branding guidelines for these items, shading will probably be a topic... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Icons
Hi Christoph, all, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi all, as you may know, LibreOffice still lacks complete support concerning the new MIME icons. Thus, I'd like to invite everybody who is interested in this topic (Paulo, Nik, ... ?) to subscribe to the corresponding bug. To me, it would be very desirable to get you updated automatically :-) And if you could have a look at the most recent comments. Here is a link: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229 One point to consider are the different themes in LibreOffice using the same iconset at the moment (or staying with a design without thight relation to LibreOffice). Some shading/shadowing (perhaps coloring) modifications need to be done in order to fit with the Oxygen Theme or Crystal Theme. For smaller sizes Paolo already worked on Tango Theme, but this need to be adapted for larger scales too. Another point is extraction of single SVG files from the source, even if this seems no longer to be necessary for Gnome 3 (using high resolution bitmaps). I can't spend time on this topic at the moment, but I don't want it to be forgotten, so I just mention it... Best regards Bernhard PS: When we finished the WWN work on the wiki and defined our work's structures, these topics should be added to the collection of work-to-be-done (easy / less easy design) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] icon in GNOME3
Hi David, all, David Tardon wrote: On Tue, Apr 05, 2011 at 11:42:42AM +0100, Caolán McNamara wrote: On Tue, 2011-04-05 at 11:34 +0200, Andreas Proschofsky wrote: *) Add 256x256 pixel versions of the LO icons caolanm-dtardon: didn't you fix this already, or at least tweak something to generate the correct size ? Well, not really. I just fixed the sysui/desktop/shared/create_tree.sh script to use 128x128 px versions of the icons (that we had had already) in addition to the other, smaller, resolutions. Could you implement 256x256 px versions too? Of course the best thing to do would be to install scalable versions of the icons alongside the scaled ones, but I haven't found these anywhere in the tree... Do we have SVG's of the icons? They are part of the large source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d4/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg While extraction of .png bitmaps is realized via a script by Thorsten Behrens, I don't see a solution for automatic creation of flat SVG files for the single icons. We could do this for the present icons manually, but I think this is not reasonable to do this on every new iteration of the icons. Does anybody know about UI integration of SVG icons on other platforms and distribtutions? Would it be reasonable to create single SVG files now? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] icon in GNOME3
Hi Andreas, Florian, all (CC'ing two lists because I can't reach all the people involved on one of them) Andreas Proschofsky schrieb: Hi Florian, Well yes and no. The icons in the Linux binary are the right ones, but if you build from source you still get the old ones by default. So this is a bug - the source shouldn't contain old OOo icons any more. The relevant bug report is https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229, but I don't know how far Thorsten (or anybody else?) has been able by now to update the places where the old icons appear. To add complexity to this story: The icons in the screenshot are from the openSUSE default icon set, I've used them on my system for the screens as the LibreOffice default icons look pretty bad in GNOME3 atm. (Disclaimer to those who don't know me: I'm the author of the article in question). That's simply because we (LO) don't deliver high resolution icons right now. We do. Thorsten did integrate all the different sizes we (LibO Design Team) provided. The largest scale is 256x256 for all application/document icons. They look like this: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_icons_256.png One month ago Jakub Steiner mentioned already the lack of 256px icons. Thorsten had been involved in this discussion, but I don't know if the source of the problem could already be found out and solved in master. If not, it's my fault too, because I didn't include the topic in the bug report until today :-( What GNOME Shell / GNOME 3.0 would need is shiny 256x256 Pixel resolutions. 48x48 are scaled up and look very fuzzy as a result. Of course. We do provide the large scale, they are just not distributed in the respective /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ folders. So what needs to be done: *) Add 256x256 pixel versions of the LO icons ... to the right folders ;-) *) Adapt libreoffice-build to actually use them ;) ... I think this might be a GUI feature ... *) Optionally: Make openSUSE to not use its own icons for LibreOffice ;) It's their decision (even if we hope they would be satisfied by our hires icons). The least we would ask is not to use OpenOffice.org symbols... Best regards Bernhard PS: Designers: We should think of providing single SVG icons (256px) to be provided as scalable sources in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable. But I think it is not as easy as extracting .png files from the Inkscape source, if we want to get single flat icons for every application... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] icon in GNOME3
Hi Michael, all, Michael Meeks schrieb: Hi Florian, On Mon, 2011-04-04 at 12:34 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote: I just got notice that the LibO icon in GNOME3 seems to be the OOo logo, see http://derstandard.at/1297821927182/Ansichtssache-GNOME3---Details-der-neuen-Desktop-Generation?sap=2_slideNumber=8_seite= Anyone from GNOME reading this list and can make necessary changes? ;-) Hmm - I guess, that looks like the icon we install; and the ones we're using on my desktop too (odd). Is this already mentioned in the bug report? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229 If not - could you please leave a comment / screenshot? Having said that, have we fixed the palette / sizing issues around the existing icons and their integration with Tango ? it would be nice to have that for the 3.4. Paulo created the icons and they have been attached to the bug. I don't know how far integration has been gone. Also - I guess the design guys should have commit access to the icons by now, if not whomever is working hardest on that should get it [ please mail me privately ]. Is there an easy way to commit without developer skills? (And without the time to learn how to build?) Additionally to this question we need a possibility to check the committed design related patches - probably this will be able to be solved by (nearly) nightly master installers... I added these points to the WWN wiki page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#Proposals_by_Bernhard_Dippold (hopefully not interfering with Christoph's structuring of this page...) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] icon in GNOME3
Hi Sasa, * Sasa Ostrouska schrieb: [...] Hi, just to add, the icon of the quick-launcher is also still ooo. For the Tango theme this is already mentioned at the bug report: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33229#c25 Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif Picture Request
Hi Daniel, Nik, all ...repeating the request to avoid to forget it (and CC'ing Nik to get more attention ;-) ) Daniel Merker schrieb: Hi, Sorry if this is a lazy request up front. Is it possible to have the stream version of the motif available also on the website in SVG? I know that you are busy, Nik, but as you are the only one able to provide the source file: Perhaps you can provide someone with your AI file who can take the time to export the SVG. We'll probably have to ungroup it, but this can be done similar to the standard Scatter motif. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] First adaption of the motif in real life
Hi all, I just want to let you know, that OpenSourcePress, a German company supporting and providing open source software and documentation, implemented our motif in the cover of their boxed version of the LibreOffice-Box, to be sold not only in their online shop, but in supermarkets like Walmart too. Here is the direct link to their page: https://www.opensourcepress.de/index.php?26backPID=178tt_products=334 (will have to be rephrased, as they told me) The 3D box preview is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Cover_LibreOffice_3D_rgb_400px.png They told me that we could get the source files of the design. I like it very much (especially the colored triangles as extension to the Scatter motif). Do you think that this might be used as starting point for our community DVD design? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] DFD banner for our website
Hi Klaus-Jürgen, As time becomes too short for any design decision, I move this discussion back to the website list, because the banner should be uploaded ASAP. Please follow-up there... I agree: klaus-jürgen weghorn ol schrieb: [...] We only put the right banner for the next two days: Removing the (more or less outdated) challenge banner seems to be reasonable. As DFD is tomorrow, we will not loose too many donations, when we only provide a small banner for DFD. But if we just want to show the small DFD banner, I think it is more reasonable to use the official DFD banner instead of a I uploaded the 120x60px version from the DFD 2011 artwork page to our wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DFD_Banner_120x60.png Can one of our admins replace the current banner with the DFD banner (moved to the right) ? And remove it on Thursday, when DFD is over? I'd prefer to have a Keep on donating banner there as well, but your comment is reasonable: The problem is: We should not decide about the banner in a fast way. This banner (without the DFD but with the text) should be our banner for the next time. We must/want to change the current banner and develop a new. So we should have only the DFD banner for tomorrow - and no banner at all until we have created a new Donate!-Banner. Any comments, objections, better ideas (to be implemented in this very short timeframe)? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VOTE] DFD banner for our website
Hi all, based on the newest information (6 months TDF) I updated my last proposal. Klaus-Jürgen added a new version to the wiki too. As DFD is tomorrow already, we need to come to an agreement. So please join this discussion / voting. Best regards Bernhard Bernhard Dippold schrieb: Hi Klaus-Jürgen, all, Can we have a short vote on a DFD banner? klaus-jürgen weghorn ol schrieb: Hi @, Am 23.02.2011 19:47, schrieb ol klaus-jürgen weghorn: [...] I put it on a wikipage for discussions: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Donate_and_DFD_Banner As time is short: Can we agree on one of the banners? I'd like to keep with the present banner size 600x60 as this would be easier to replace on the website. I don't know if it is easy to have different links on the two banners - if not, I'd prefer the link to the challenge page, while the DFD URL should be present on the banner. I want to remark this thread. March 30th will be soon. Do we want a DFD banner or not? The banner discussion is here [4]. [4] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Donate_and_DFD_Banner I'm CC'ing the website-ml for remembering the thread, but I think the discussion should be on the design-ml. Thanks for re-raising this topic, Klaus-Jürgen. Please add the number of your preferred proposal below: My preference: _ Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Review needed to try to resurrect add slide thumbnails to HTML export part
Hi Michael, hello Julien, all, Michael Meeks schrieb: Hi Julien, On Fri, 2011-03-25 at 00:25 +0100, Julien Nabet wrote: I worked a little on add slide thumbnails to HTML export part. The code compiles ok with Debian testing updated x86 (and no parameter at all in autogen), gcc (Debian 4.5.2-4) Nice work :-) It's hard to imagine what you did, as there are different options to do a HTML export. I only tried this : - create a impress document with 2 slides - export to XHTML, HTML and save it in test.html You exported it via File - Wizards - Web Page, I assume? When exporting it via File - Export ... choosing XHTML format there is no preview. Good stuff. then I got these files : .. I don't know if it's what was expected but i'm sure it needs some reviewing since I added, changed and removed 1 or 2 things from the original patch. Heh - so, the essence is that the front-page of the slideshow: - test.html should have a little mosaic of the slides that you can click on (prolly this needs some html div/whatever love - perhaps we can ask the UI/design guys about that as/when we create the new list for that). As we can't see what you have created, is there a chance to get a screenshot? I can just imagine, what you want to achieve: The present wizard creates a list of files (in index.html) as well as a table of contents (in /content/filename/filename.html) for presentations, direct preview for text files and drawings. If the wizard was used to create a framed website (third step of the wizard, second line of layouts), the ToC is shown in the frame on the index.html page. This ToC shows the name of the slides and a link to start a web representation of the file (/content/filename/siframes.html) This webpage contains on the left hand side the titles of the slides (expandable to lower hierarchies), on the right hand side the slides are shown - switchable on forward/backward buttons or by clicking on the titles. Do you want to replace these titles on siframes.html by the thumbnails (similar to the Slides area in Impress)? Or should already the Table of Contents (filename.html) provide the thumbnails? Clickable thumbnails would be intuitive to use, providing an easy access to the content. I'm sure it can be improved, especially for accessibility (selection movable by mouse and keyboard, alternative titles etc), but if I understand it right, your patch will be an improvement over the present state, so please go on! If this patch is ok, i can of course push it. Looks fine to me :-) please do push it if it works as I outline above ;-) We should also consult the design team as to whether they want this to be optional; there is a big white-space for 'options' in the 2nd page of the HTML export wizard that we could whack that into. You mean the Documents page? Under Export to file format a checkbox: Provide thumbnails? Then again, IMHO adding gratuitous options is mostly cowardly (as previously discussed), either way IMHO the option should be on by default if it is there I think. In this case I agree: Even with larger presentations the size of the thumbnails don't enlarge the resulting website too much, but provide relevant information. Thus I think we should not add an option to skip the creation of thumbnails. (If users will complain about the resulting size, an additional option in Export to file format can be created later: HTML without thumbnails) No doubt, there is quite some scope for cleaning up the HTML the HTML export dialog generates too in the light of the modern web. While we're there; we should prolly ask the design guys to address the -very- blury artwork banners in that HTML export dialog, it looks odd to me (though perhaps it is a 'feature-not-bug' ;-) I don't like these colorful graphical webdesign either. I don't know how we can get better design integrated in this wizard. Do you need color and size definition, graphics or finalized websites? If we can get such information, we can add some kind of Design Easy Hack to work on by some interested designers. But more important: If you leave the original file formats, you'll get StarOffice file icons! These should definitely be replaced by the corresponding LibO icons. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [PATCH] color charts
Hi Rob, all, (CC'ing the dev list again, as this relates to both parts of the discussion) Rob Snelders schrieb: Hi All, [this was me, Bernhard]: Just one question, as I can't try the feature by myself: Do you provide the same confirmation window as the standard color selector in Options - LibreOffice - Colors when removing a color: Do you want to delete the color? Or is it different like Do you want to remove the color from the default colors? There is no confirmation yet. But I am refining the patch because of improvement proposals from the developers-list, so if some changes are needed I can implement them on the follow-up patch. If it would be easy to add such a confirmation, this would make the feature not only more consistent with other areas where items are removed (like the colors I mentioned above). For a user who pushed the button unintentionally it might be a problem to add the right color again - leading to inconsistent colors in his or her charts. And with a double click instead of a single one not only the superfluous color is removed, but the next or last one too. So if it is not too hard to add the confirmation (perhaps you can copy it from Options - LibreOffice - Colors), it would be great if you could include it in your patch. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [PATCH] color charts
Hi Erich, all, Erich Christian schrieb: Hi Rob, Am 26.03.2011 00:58, schrieb Rob Snelders: I was asked to email a screenshot of my patch for the color charts to this maillist. I have attached a screenshot. This is the screen-shot of the color-chats, that can be found in the options-sceen (Tools-Options). What I have added are the Add- and Remove-buttons, to add and remove a color chart. When adding it will add a black color chart with the number 1 higher as the last one created. When removing it will remove the selected item or when none is selected it will remove the last. Please add me in this conversation because I'm not in this mailinglist. You'll have to subscribe yourself, just send a plain mail to design+subscr...@libreoffice.org or to the address mentioned below for further options. Requested by me Hillar sent a mail asking for more information to Rob, a developer of a new feature I didn't understood when he posted his patch to the developer list. I don't think that every developer has to subscribe to this list, even if this would be great ;-) Perhaps Rob can follow this thread via one of our repositories like Nabble, Mail-Archive.com [1] or Gmane, but in such cases of developer/designer interaction I don't see a better solution than to add the developer manually to CC. [1]: Here the link to Robs Mail from the header: http://go.mail-archive.com/209qRskZC_EAQmvTj4QLeoE3ejM= This list does not allow email attachments, upload it to a webspace or to the Wiki instead and post the link here. The missing attachment is a problem hopefully to be solved with the attachment storage Christoph asked for at the website list - and it seems that there is some work done in this area. For the moment I hope that Hillar will upload the screenshot he got (as he was CC'd by Rob) to a place we all can look at (probably our wiki). When I moderated the mail, I wasn't shown the attachment, otherwise I had uploaded it myself. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] [PATCH] color charts
Hillar Liiv schrieb: Hi, Screenshot: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Libo_charts.png Thanks, Hillar! Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [UX]How to drive new users to style-based formatting (idea)
Hi Rafael, all! I don't know if you have noticed Octavio's reply (it raised your mail to visibility again), because he didn't CC you, what seems to be usual here on this list (in opposite to any other LibreOffice list). If not, here is a link: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-March/009534.html Rafael Daud schrieb: Hi all, I've just joined the development list, and don't have any programming skills worth to mention, but I'm quite eager to contribute to the development of LibreOffice (BrOffice here), and do have few ideas to share. Please advert me if I don't follow the good practices in here :-) I could imagine, that you would like to join the design team, because over there we don't work on visual design only, but on UX- and UI-design too. Therefore I CC'd the design list - Follow-up over there please... Please have a look at the wiki for details about our mailing list http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design#Communication If you want to, post your idea there too. What I was thinking is how to make new users (or even old ones) to use style-based rather than direct formatting.[...] Styles are a very mighty feature - but as you state below, they are not accessible enough to be accepted by the average user. The result is Style formatting is quite invisible to many users, unless they know what they're doing. And in that case, it's still not pretty or easily accessible. You can feel the power when you change the Font in all of your titles at once, or when you change line spacing in all of your paragraphs but long quotations in their own paragraphs. Even then, having to open a new Styles Formatting window, selecting the right style, asking to edit it, then managing through a new dialog is quite a hassle. What if I just wanted to change a single aspect of my style, say, first line indent, then see how it looks, then change another, say, paragraph indent, then another, and another, I would have to go though that dialog a thousand times. I might get tired, and opt for the direct formatting as a easier way to do things. I've done that, back then with openoffice 1.1. What if there was another way? An easier, more intuitive, self-explanatory way? It would be great, but probably not easy at all to find a way normal user will accept it as better than the way they are used to. What they are used: Select a word or phrase and add an attribute (bold, italic, color...) to it. If they want to copy the attributes to another word or phrase, they use the paint brush or copy paste special. If they change the formatting of one of the words with such attributes (e.g. add italic to pre-existent bold), they don't expect that all the other bold words become italic too. Every proposal that doesn't respect this workflow is most likely to fail. Your idea might be tricky: [...] In the formatting toolbar, there's a checkbox, checked by default, with the phrasing applies to style next to it, and after that, the drop-down entry of styles. [...] So every change you made from the interface, while the checkbox was checked, would apply to the style. [...] So I go to the ruler, and change the first line indentation. Next paragraph (and the ones above it) all get the new indentation, without me having to Crtl-A or select manually all of them. Just because they use Default Style. But say I want this one paragraph to be different than others? Then I go to the style drop-down entry and choose Textbody, or whatever. Then all new changes to the ruler, font etc. gets applied to the new style. And, of course, when I change style from the style entry form, the new chosen style gets automaticaly applied to that paragraph. So I know what's going on: I'm working with styles. But you need to change the style *before* you do the formatting. Imagine an average user who wants to create a title followed by normal text. He writes the text of the title, changes the font size, centers the text and turns it bold. You wrote that character formatting is a topic you didn't find a solution for by now - but I think this is similar. Just stick with centered in my example. All this formatting is applied to the Default style without his knowledge. Now he continues to write: The normal text is bold, large and centered. What does he do? He changes these attributes. He will be very astonished to find out that his title has become normal text again! And imagine he wants to color one word in his text in red. How can he understand why his entire text becomes red? He will probably need to learn how to define different formatting for characters, paragraphs, pages and so on. If he doesn't find out how to do this (and if he isn't willing to spend some time on styles), he will decide that LibreOffice is broken and never try it again. That way, even the most newbie will know right from the start he's working with styles. Not really - an option to check in the menu doesn't seem to be
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design task: LibreOffice Motif
Hi Nik, all, Nik schrieb: Hi Jaron, All! Some bad news =( , but first... On 3/22/2011 11:33 PM, Jaron Kuppers wrote: Hi Nik, Fantastic work Nik, both on the Scatter design and on organizing the motif project. Same from my side - you did a great job! [...] Ideally I'd like to make vector versions available instead. Here's my problem... The Motif uses complex transparency in the Design. It needs the support of a full Alpha channel in order to appear correctly. This is not a problem for raster formats (like the PNG file currently available, GOD BLESS PNG!) But so far I have had no luck exporting to a vector format that doesn't use binary transparency, including SVG and EPS. EPS doesn't support Alpha IIRC, but SVG should do. As others stated already, please upload a SVG export somewhere - perhaps we'll find a way to extract the important information... This is not usually a problem for me because I use Adobe Creative Suite and support between the applications in CS5 is /superbly/ achieved via smart-objects, but when it comes time to export, well, we get the problem I'm facing now, which is best demonstrated in image form... I've documented the problem at the bottom of the Motif page and added an image depicting the problem; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif#Alpha_problem If anyone can lend a hand in this, I'd be most grateful. Since I don't use anything but Creative Suite, I can't even test for alpha support in other apps. I've uploaded a PSD file containing the Motif with Alpha as it is intended to be, here; http://tdf.nikashsingh.com/misc/ScatterWithTransparency.psd Also, while we are nutting this last step out, would either Christoph or Bernhard be able to raise the Scatter Motif with the SC to get it confirmed as officially approved artwork ? In general I don't think that it is necessary to get an approval by the SC for any artwork and graphics we provide. On tasks like changing the logo or updating our overall branding the SC should be informed and agree to it, because these topics relate to the entire community with implications on several other teams. But the motif can become approved by our team - just like banners, posters and other artwork. It will become an important part of our branding design and used in a multitude of areas. Therefore it is good to inform the community about this new basic element. But in my eyes we don't need a formal okay by the SC. So let's go on, create artwork and define a set of graphics based on the Scatter Motif. I'm still working on the Wiki gallery: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Bedipp/Drafts so these artwork might become the first to be positioned in the new gallery pages... Best regards Bernhard Please don't let this setback hinder your desire to use the Motif. The uploaded PNG is hi-res enough (300dpi, 2500x2500 pixels) for most applications for now. Feel free to download and fiddle, it would be great to see some web banners/CD labels/print material etc soon? =) -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design task: LibreOffice Motif
Hi Sveinn i Felli, all Sveinn í Felli schrieb: Managed to convert the PSD file to SVG with alpha-channel intact (it seems). Used Scribus 1.4.0.rc2 (color managed); made an image-frame for the PSD and exported as plain SVG. Seems to work well in Inkscape. Here it is: http://www.nett.is/~sveinki/libreoffice/Scatter-scribus-001.svg Thanks for the effort! In my Inkscape version (0.48 on Ubuntu 10.10) the file consists of a bitmap with transparency. The triangles are not vectorized :-( Perhaps you find some options in Scribus avoiding to convert the vector file in a bitmap? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
