Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
I like very much the idea... Maybe we could do something more "artistic" but still neutral for the background... trying to avoid the "Glass look" of MS Office, of course. I think we should be absolutely creative on changing the application background! :-D It could be a good "visual" differential to LibreOffice and have a strong appeal to upcoming users. Lets stay thinking about it... :-D ~Paulo On 05-03-2011 14:59, Andrew wrote: On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application (i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow. Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/ -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi Nik, Ricardo, all! Am Montag, den 07.03.2011, 03:45 +1100 schrieb Nik: > Hi Ricardo, all, > > On 3/7/2011 2:41 AM, RGB ES wrote: > > Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system > > resourced used to no real usability gain. [...] > Must be a subjective thing then. > Once you add that background-image though, you'll be mighty sorry you > don't have a drop shadow to separate your document from that busy > background image. > Which would be a usability gain. And even if it doesn't there's that > precious fleeting thing called User Experience. > I for one, love drop shadows on my documents, makes it easier to focus. > > I'd propose having a drop shadow by default and having the option to > turn it off, or turn it "flat" (like it is currently). > I know; it's easy to say, but hard to implement. Sorry. Drop shadows are one way of telling the user which element currently has the focus. Some time ago, I've presented an idea how to present the document vs. the notes in Writer. Please have a look at the first two pictures (although it was based on the rather simple shadow in Writer): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Mockups_and_Screenshots Concerning the - "turn it off" option. For my point-of-view, wouldn't it be better to go with a design which a) performs well (in terms of speed), and b) is acceptable by the majority of users. We already have too many options and (at the moment) no way of presenting them somehow prioritized ... like Firefox. [...] > And the shadow should scale with the zoom-level, when have you ever seen > a thumbnail-size paper cast shadow twice its size in all four directions? > At a football stadium, I'm guessing =) > That will conveniently address the > "proximity-to-neighbouring-pages-issue" too maybe? Mmh, this is a good point - we've discussed that some time ago in the OOo UX team. I think the major point is, that the "document paper" does not change its height in comparison to the background. Therefore most of the systems (although having only a right-bottom drop shadow) don't change the size of the shadow when the content of the document is zoomed. For example, the shadow size is kept if the user zooms in - the shadow doesn't convey valuable information in this case. Consequently, and this what I think you had in mind as well, a shadow should be defined in a certain size for "100%", and: * if the document is zoomed in, then the shadow should grow only slightly * if the document is zoomed out, then the shadow should decrease according to the document zoom level (but keeping a min size of e.g. 1 ... 2 px) That's the good thing when it comes to usability ... it's usually never simple ;-) > I'll actually chip in a mock-up in the next few days if time allows. > Maybe the Motif-Design task can tie into this and become the subtle > default bg-image? Cool, thanks! And although some people might think I am stressing that a bit too much ... Johannes once put together some ideas: http://www.johannes-eva.net/2009-07-new-application-background-ooo And some things I still have in mind ... Nik, you mentioned the "light comes from above" issue (I deleted this section in this mail, so sorry for the late comment) - of course this is correct, but in one special (but most important) case - talking about Writer - we have continuous document content spread over different pages. So, if the content is scrolled, then all the pages show different lighting and it behaves a bit like a passing train in the night (bright, dark, bright, dar, ...). For all other cases (like icons, Impress, ...) the top-lighting will work. But for Writer, applying a constant shadow across the page is more than okay. There has been a proposal to use the background to differentiate between the different document types. This might be tricky, since even the "main" applications in LibreOffice sometimes miss an application background. Consequently, I wouldn't make this a "key visual" (by the way, Microsoft Office 2010 has solved this elegantly). Furthermore, color applied on a large surface like this one will distract ... And, since we talk about the application background. Please be aware that these are usually defined by the operating system. If we change it, then we "miss" to behave according platform requirements. And usually, this is against usability ... so this should only be changed if its a real (perceived) benefit. Cheers, Christoph > > 2011/3/6 Rick Hansson: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain > >> background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and > >> they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be > >> optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that > >> optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: > >> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/F
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi Ricardo, all, On 3/7/2011 2:41 AM, RGB ES wrote: Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system resourced used to no real usability gain. Shadows make sense only when you need to visually separate between stacked elements on a multi element UI like a desktop, but LibO UI is *single* document. And even if multiple document UI is developed this should be through a split screen/tabbed interface because it make no sense to put all documents on a "desktop inside the desktop" like it was on old staroffice 5.x. And even if the reason is because "aesthetics", that's also arguable: I always disable shadows on my kde box, even if I like other eye candy effects a lot... I think that a subtle gradient on the background, or even the possibility to set up your own "walpaper" will be a lot better than casting a shadow over a coloured "void". Just my 2¢ Ricardo Must be a subjective thing then. Once you add that background-image though, you'll be mighty sorry you don't have a drop shadow to separate your document from that busy background image. Which would be a usability gain. And even if it doesn't there's that precious fleeting thing called User Experience. I for one, love drop shadows on my documents, makes it easier to focus. I'd propose having a drop shadow by default and having the option to turn it off, or turn it "flat" (like it is currently). I know; it's easy to say, but hard to implement. Sorry. Just out of curiosity, are the shadows going to have transparency/alpha? Once people add background images, you wouldn't want to see the edge between where the bg-image picks up and the shadow drops off. And the idea of coloured drop shadows truly turns my stomach, it's too unprofessional? On a Design note, while I'm glad we've proposed blurred border on all four sides (because nothing is worse and less-realistic than a default right+bottom dark blurred drop shadow), ...the apps use top-lighting. So the bottom border should be darker than the left,top and right borders. Any gradient on the back should be lighter at the top and no other direction. The "size" of the blur should be indicative of how far you want the user to perceive the "piece of paper" is from the "background" it is hovering above. Right now the blurred border is too dark to be that wide; The larger the blur-radius > the further the background > the more diffuse the shadow/lighting becomes > the "paler" the shadow should be. And the shadow should scale with the zoom-level, when have you ever seen a thumbnail-size paper cast shadow twice its size in all four directions? At a football stadium, I'm guessing =) That will conveniently address the "proximity-to-neighbouring-pages-issue" too maybe? I'll actually chip in a mock-up in the next few days if time allows. Maybe the Motif-Design task can tie into this and become the subtle default bg-image? -Nik 2011/3/6 Rick Hansson: Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example should be unchecked. Rick On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Raywrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sun, 6 Mar 2011 09:15:54 -0500, Rob Cummings a écrit : > First, as an element by itself, I like the four shadow borders, but I > can't help but wonder how it fits in with any plan or vision for the > future of the UI. > > Also, I don't understand how a shadow border is any trickier when > zoomed. The scale of the shadow (and line width) don't need to change > with the zoom. It's just a border. > Agreed, but please reread my previous posts. The problem is that when you zoom out, pages are closer from each other so if you keep your shadows say 10px height, they'll overlap since space between pages is < 20px. Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Agree: I prefer no shadow at all, specially if it means more system resourced used to no real usability gain. Shadows make sense only when you need to visually separate between stacked elements on a multi element UI like a desktop, but LibO UI is *single* document. And even if multiple document UI is developed this should be through a split screen/tabbed interface because it make no sense to put all documents on a "desktop inside the desktop" like it was on old staroffice 5.x. And even if the reason is because "aesthetics", that's also arguable: I always disable shadows on my kde box, even if I like other eye candy effects a lot... I think that a subtle gradient on the background, or even the possibility to set up your own "walpaper" will be a lot better than casting a shadow over a coloured "void". Just my 2¢ Ricardo 2011/3/6 Rick Hansson : > Hi all, > > I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain > background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and > they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be > optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that > optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg > > The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or > doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example > should be unchecked. > > Rick > > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > >> Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, >> Daniel Merker a écrit : >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be >> > the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would >> > have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all >> > sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the >> > same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme >> > and help build on a general motif. >> > >> > -Daniel Merker >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> The background color of the application can already be customized >> through preferences... >> >> regards >> >> Sébastien >> >> -- >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ >> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** >> > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
First, as an element by itself, I like the four shadow borders, but I can't help but wonder how it fits in with any plan or vision for the future of the UI. Also, I don't understand how a shadow border is any trickier when zoomed. The scale of the shadow (and line width) don't need to change with the zoom. It's just a border. Rob On Mar 6, 2011 5:57 AM, "Sébastien Le Ray" wrote: > Before the 4 borders thing (which creates new issues related to zoom > handling), I'm working on finding a way to have a configurable shadow > color to allow smooth integration into various themes. Next step will > be to think about the four borders thing :) > > Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi all, I don't see any reason for having borders or shades at all. A plain background is fine. Keep it simple. I made a quick poll among friends and they all have different ideas, so this would be great if it could be optional. Also, since many like gradient backgrounds, why not make that optional as well? I've uploaded some drafts: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad1.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad2.jpg http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Doc_bgr_grad3.jpg The default prefs are very important, since most users stick with them or doesn't even know that you can do changes. The text boundaries for example should be unchecked. Rick On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, > Daniel Merker a écrit : > > > Hi, > > > > Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be > > the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would > > have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all > > sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the > > same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme > > and help build on a general motif. > > > > -Daniel Merker > > > > Hi, > > The background color of the application can already be customized > through preferences... > > regards > > Sébastien > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sun, 06 Mar 2011 08:37:55 +, Andrew a écrit : > On 05/03/11 21:47, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > > Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:56:45 +, > > Daniel Merker a écrit : > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done > >> like this. > >> > > > > Hi, > > > > So you just want to change default values for apps, that's it? > > > > I've he > > > > I think the best situation is to have the four borders thanks to your > great work, and then this background colours issue is another feature > request. > Hi Before the 4 borders thing (which creates new issues related to zoom handling), I'm working on finding a way to have a configurable shadow color to allow smooth integration into various themes. Next step will be to think about the four borders thing :) Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
On 05/03/11 21:47, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:56:45 +, > Daniel Merker a écrit : > >> Hi, >> >> This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done like >> this. >> > > Hi, > > So you just want to change default values for apps, that's it? > > I've he > I think the best situation is to have the four borders thanks to your great work, and then this background colours issue is another feature request. -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 18:56:45 +, Daniel Merker a écrit : > Hi, > > This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done like > this. > Hi, So you just want to change default values for apps, that's it? I've he -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi, This is what I meant. The default of LibreOffice should be done like this. From: Andrew [rugby...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 12:59 PM To: design@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, > Daniel Merker a écrit : > >> Hi, >> >> Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be >> the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would >> have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all >> sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the >> same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme >> and help build on a general motif. >> >> -Daniel Merker >> > > Hi, > > The background color of the application can already be customized > through preferences... > > regards > > Sébastien > I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application (i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow. Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/ -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, > Daniel Merker a écrit : > >> Hi, >> >> Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be >> the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would >> have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all >> sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the >> same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme >> and help build on a general motif. >> >> -Daniel Merker >> > > Hi, > > The background color of the application can already be customized > through preferences... > > regards > > Sébastien > I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application (i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow. Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/ -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker a écrit : > Hi, > > Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be > the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would > have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all > sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the > same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme > and help build on a general motif. > > -Daniel Merker > Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:09:44 +0200, Hillar Liiv a écrit : > Hi, > > I have made some mockup to show how different shadows look alike: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Docshadows.png > Which looks best? Hi I definitely don't like the "no blur" shadows... I cannot tell which one from 4 borders or 2 borders looks best, I guess this is a matter of personal taste. One thing to take into account : if we use a large shadow and/or 4 borders shadow, we've to change to behavior of the zoom out to avoid shadow overlapping (when you zoom out to a little zoom level, pages are closer from each other than in zoom levels > ~50%), so we either have to change pages spacing or shadow width when zooming out. Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi, I have made some mockup to show how different shadows look alike: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Docshadows.png Which looks best? With startup style shadow: http://ubuntuone.com/p/S53/ Hillar 2011/3/4 Daniel Merker > Hi, > > Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the > primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue > tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and > Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around > the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a > general motif. > > -Daniel Merker > > -Original Message- > From: Sébastien Le Ray [mailto:sebast...@orniz.org] > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:01 PM > To: design@libreoffice.org > Cc: jaronba...@gmail.com; Andrew > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - > Improve default page layout > > Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:21 -0500, > Jaron Kuppers a écrit : > > > Hi all, > > > > I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion. > > > > I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from > > a coding perspective it would not be an "easy hack." There was > > discussion over the years on the OOo list about changing the > > background from the dull gray to something more upbeat. Perhaps the > > 'shadow' could be integrated into a new customization feature that > > allows the user to change the background and the shadow. > > Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this is... (I seem to > > recall some large problem in the code that made this difficult, but it > > may have been an issue). > > > > Cheers, > > Jaron > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew wrote: > > > > > On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > > > > Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, Christoph Noack > > > > a écrit : > > > > > > > >> Hi Sébastien, hi all! > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > >> Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le > > > >> Ray: > > > >>> Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, Michael Meeks > > > >>> a écrit : > > > >>> > > > > [...] > > > >> > > > >> Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really > > > >> looking forward. > > > > > > > > You can find a screenshot on > > > > http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also > > > > handled nicely... > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > >> However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - > > > >> it's really worth spending some time digging through some of the > > > >> descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than > > > >> pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings > > > >> :-) > > > >> > > > >> The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): > > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 > > > >> > > > >> Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) > > > >> to be adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time > > > >> for: > > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Propos > > > >> als > > > >> > > > >> And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further > > > >> ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes > > > >> project being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you > > > >> on that - if you like :-) > > > > > > > > I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a "UI tasks" on > > > > libreoffice wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design > > > > point of view but that have not yet been implemented. > > > > There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give > > > > priorities on various items? > > > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > >> > > >
RE: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker -Original Message- From: Sébastien Le Ray [mailto:sebast...@orniz.org] Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 4:01 PM To: design@libreoffice.org Cc: jaronba...@gmail.com; Andrew Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:21 -0500, Jaron Kuppers a écrit : > Hi all, > > I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion. > > I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from > a coding perspective it would not be an "easy hack." There was > discussion over the years on the OOo list about changing the > background from the dull gray to something more upbeat. Perhaps the > 'shadow' could be integrated into a new customization feature that > allows the user to change the background and the shadow. > Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this is... (I seem to > recall some large problem in the code that made this difficult, but it > may have been an issue). > > Cheers, > Jaron > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew wrote: > > > On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > > > Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, Christoph Noack > > > a écrit : > > > > > >> Hi Sébastien, hi all! > > >> > > > > > > Hi > > > > > >> Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le > > >> Ray: > > >>> Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, Michael Meeks > > >>> a écrit : > > >>> > > > [...] > > >> > > >> Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really > > >> looking forward. > > > > > > You can find a screenshot on > > > http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also > > > handled nicely... > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > >> However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - > > >> it's really worth spending some time digging through some of the > > >> descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than > > >> pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings > > >> :-) > > >> > > >> The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 > > >> > > >> Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) > > >> to be adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time > > >> for: > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Propos > > >> als > > >> > > >> And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further > > >> ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas > > >> > > >> > > >> Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes > > >> project being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you > > >> on that - if you like :-) > > > > > > I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a "UI tasks" on > > > libreoffice wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design > > > point of view but that have not yet been implemented. > > > There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give > > > priorities on various items? > > > > > > [...] > > > > > >> > > >> If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual > > >> Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - > > >> and we really need some understanding and support here), feel > > >> invited to subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more > > >> information can be found here: > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design > > > > > > Subscribed yesterday :-) > > > It seems that you've been busy with more "marketting" stuff that > > > UI design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising > > > > > > Waiting for you p
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:44:21 -0500, Jaron Kuppers a écrit : > Hi all, > > I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion. > > I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from > a coding perspective it would not be an "easy hack." There was > discussion over the years on the OOo list about changing the > background from the dull gray to something more upbeat. Perhaps the > 'shadow' could be integrated into a new customization feature that > allows the user to change the background and the shadow. > Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this is... (I seem to > recall some large problem in the code that made this difficult, but > it may have been an issue). > > Cheers, > Jaron > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew wrote: > > > On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > > > Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, > > > Christoph Noack a écrit : > > > > > >> Hi Sébastien, hi all! > > >> > > > > > > Hi > > > > > >> Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le > > >> Ray: > > >>> Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, > > >>> Michael Meeks a écrit : > > >>> > > > [...] > > >> > > >> Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really > > >> looking forward. > > > > > > You can find a screenshot on > > > http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also > > > handled nicely... > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > >> However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - > > >> it's really worth spending some time digging through some of the > > >> descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than > > >> pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your > > >> likings :-) > > >> > > >> The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 > > >> > > >> Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) > > >> to be adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time > > >> for: > > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals > > >> > > >> And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further > > >> ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas > > >> > > >> > > >> Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes > > >> project being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with > > >> you on that - if you like :-) > > > > > > I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a "UI tasks" on > > > libreoffice wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design > > > point of view but that have not yet been implemented. > > > There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give > > > priorities on various items? > > > > > > [...] > > > > > >> > > >> If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual > > >> Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - > > >> and we really need some understanding and support here), feel > > >> invited to subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more > > >> information can be found here: > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design > > > > > > Subscribed yesterday :-) > > > It seems that you've been busy with more "marketting" stuff that > > > UI design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising > > > > > > Waiting for you priorities & mockups on notes work :-) > > > > > > Sébastien > > > > > > > > > > Hi All and Sebastien :) > > > > Regarding that patch, I think that what we have in that screenshot > > is a definite improvement, but I feel we could do better, and > > hopefully without a lot more work. > > > > If you look at the mockup I attached to the bug report, I feel this > > looks a lot more modern and professional. > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=39920 Pretty interesting... I first implemented the "4 borders" shadow but every people I show it said "it's strange, the shadow should be only under two borders". > > > > I feel if instead of having that shadow aligned to the bottom left, > > instead it is centred on the page, and we have a slightly larger > > blur radius we can make it look a lot better. > > > > Is this just me, or do other think this as well? > > Now that the code is present, we can use almost any image. Shadow is divided in 4 parts: top right, right, bottom right, bottom, bottom left. If you can provide other images I could integrate them (those ones where more "proof of concept" ones. > > -- > > Andrew Regards Sebastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Hi all, I like both ideas but lean towards Andrews suggestion. I would like to instead propose a different approach but perhaps from a coding perspective it would not be an "easy hack." There was discussion over the years on the OOo list about changing the background from the dull gray to something more upbeat. Perhaps the 'shadow' could be integrated into a new customization feature that allows the user to change the background and the shadow. Unfortunately, I can't recall how difficult this is... (I seem to recall some large problem in the code that made this difficult, but it may have been an issue). Cheers, Jaron On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Andrew wrote: > On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > > Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, > > Christoph Noack a écrit : > > > >> Hi Sébastien, hi all! > >> > > > > Hi > > > >> Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le Ray: > >>> Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, > >>> Michael Meeks a écrit : > >>> > > [...] > >> > >> Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really > >> looking forward. > > > > You can find a screenshot on > > http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also > > handled nicely... > > > > [...] > > > > > >> However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - it's > >> really worth spending some time digging through some of the > >> descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than > >> pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings :-) > >> > >> The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 > >> > >> Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) to be > >> adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time for: > >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals > >> > >> And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further > >> ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas > >> > >> > >> Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes project > >> being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you on that - if > >> you like :-) > > > > I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a "UI tasks" on libreoffice > > wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design point of view but > > that have not yet been implemented. > > There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give > > priorities on various items? > > > > [...] > > > >> > >> If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual > >> Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - and we > >> really need some understanding and support here), feel invited to > >> subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more information can > >> be found here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design > > > > Subscribed yesterday :-) > > It seems that you've been busy with more "marketting" stuff that UI > > design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising > > > > Waiting for you priorities & mockups on notes work :-) > > > > Sébastien > > > > > > Hi All and Sebastien :) > > Regarding that patch, I think that what we have in that screenshot is a > definite improvement, but I feel we could do better, and hopefully > without a lot more work. > > If you look at the mockup I attached to the bug report, I feel this > looks a lot more modern and professional. > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=39920 > > I feel if instead of having that shadow aligned to the bottom left, > instead it is centred on the page, and we have a slightly larger blur > radius we can make it look a lot better. > > Is this just me, or do other think this as well? > > -- > Andrew > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
On 04/03/11 07:42, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: > Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, > Christoph Noack a écrit : > >> Hi Sébastien, hi all! >> > > Hi > >> Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le Ray: >>> Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, >>> Michael Meeks a écrit : >>> > [...] >> >> Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really >> looking forward. > > You can find a screenshot on > http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also > handled nicely... > > [...] > > >> However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - it's >> really worth spending some time digging through some of the >> descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than >> pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings :-) >> >> The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 >> >> Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) to be >> adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time for: >> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals >> >> And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further >> ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas >> >> >> Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes project >> being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you on that - if >> you like :-) > > I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a "UI tasks" on libreoffice > wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design point of view but > that have not yet been implemented. > There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give > priorities on various items? > > [...] > >> >> If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual >> Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - and we >> really need some understanding and support here), feel invited to >> subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more information can >> be found here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design > > Subscribed yesterday :-) > It seems that you've been busy with more "marketting" stuff that UI > design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising > > Waiting for you priorities & mockups on notes work :-) > > Sébastien > > Hi All and Sebastien :) Regarding that patch, I think that what we have in that screenshot is a definite improvement, but I feel we could do better, and hopefully without a lot more work. If you look at the mockup I attached to the bug report, I feel this looks a lot more modern and professional. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=39920 I feel if instead of having that shadow aligned to the bottom left, instead it is centred on the page, and we have a slightly larger blur radius we can make it look a lot better. Is this just me, or do other think this as well? -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
